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Waiting for HIM

If You Are Sexually Assaulted, Would You?

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Salam,

Brothers and sisters, after seeing the thread on sexual assault and after reading a thread on having mutah sexual relationship with someone, but later abandoning him due to family pressure and in favor of a permanent husband:

Sisters: How do those who have suffered through the sexual assault (minor, major, touching or brushing by a stranger in a public transport etc), face the consequences?

Sisters: What kind of psychological issues you face later? (E.g. do you start distrusting all males?)

Sisters: How you cope with the mental pain or psychological trauma?

Sisters: Would you ever be telling this to your spouses (esp husbands) now or in future?

Future husbands: how would you react if you hear of this happened to your wife before you both married?

Future husbands: how would you react if you hear about it of your fiancée who is not your wife yet?

I'm sort of mixing the issues, but basically what happens when you or a loved one goes through consensual (halal but society looks down on it) or forced sexual relationship?

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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I don't think this topic is a good idea for several reasons. First off, assault or abuse is a traumatic experience, the very mention of which can have devastating effects on a survivor. Second, sexual assault/harassment survivors include both men and women, so the OP's line of questioning betrays a severe lack of awareness and sensitivity of the issue and the people affected by it. Finally, for an overwhelming majority of assault/harassment survivors the perpetrator is known to them and often may even be an intimate partner.

 

I encourage discussion that raises awareness but not through the line of questioning that may exacerbate the trauma experienced by people.

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Salam,

Brothers and sisters, after seeing the thread on sexual assault and after reading a thread on having mutah sexual relationship with someone, but later abandoning him due to family pressure and in favor of a permanent husband:

Sisters: How do those who have suffered through the sexual assault (minor, major, touching or brushing by a stranger in a public transport etc), face the consequences?

Sisters: What kind of psychological issues you face later? (E.g. do you start distrusting all males?)

Sisters: How you cope with the mental pain or psychological trauma?

Sisters: Would you ever be telling this to your spouses (esp husbands) now or in future?

Future husbands: how would you react if you hear of this happened to your wife before you both married?

Future husbands: how would you react if you hear about it of your fiancée who is not your wife yet?

I'm sort of mixing the issues, but basically what happens when you or a loved one goes through consensual (halal but society looks down on it) or forced sexual relationship?

 

check-your-privilege.jpg

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Asalam Alykum,

 

I think you are opening a can of worms that can start a lot of flash backs into the reader and get upset. Though its a topic that has to be addressed, perhaps victims tend to hide themselves further.

 

I also think you need to consider that men can also face sexual assault by other men. I know when I was a kid some did try to sexually assault me but I ran away (in Pakistan) and yes I discussed it with my wife and yeah you never forget it. So if someone had worst experience, I do not expect them to be as forth coming as a female.

 

Ma'Salam.

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In the thread title, the Op has said 'would you', so i think it would be ok if people could share their views. That won't mean the person replying has to disclose personal experiences they might have had (God forbid).

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Asalam Alykum,

 

Considering it took for 2 years of my wife also being my best friend to disclose this, I would say if something had happen, I wouldn't ever tell anyone from a male perspective. 800 female victims at Harrah, thousands in Syria, Iraq, etc due to wars, millions due to genocides and tribal/gang wars. You would only end up hearing about a few because many victims would rather not relive the abuse. The question makes perfect sense but victims may not reply.

 

Ma'Salam.

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It is fine if the OP is asking about members' views about the issue and not asking for personal stories to be told. As others have pointed out it is not easy to write about such things. If someone has a story to tell, this is not a place to tell it so please refrain.

 

That said, it is a highly controversial issue. The problem isn't so much how victims themselves cope with it (though it should be our main concern) but society's attitudes towards those who have suffered such abuse. Sometimes the victims are made to feel guilty and even rejected by menfolk for these reasons. And men in general are not truthful as to what they think (or would do) if this happened to their wives/sisters etc. You will most probably get politically (religiously) correct answers which won't reflect the sad reality on the ground.

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It is fine if the OP is asking about members' views about the issue and not asking for personal stories to be told. As others have pointed out it is not easy to write about such things. If someone has a story to tell, this is not a place to tell it so please refrain.

That said, it is a highly controversial issue. The problem isn't so much how victims themselves cope with it (though it should be our main concern) but society's attitudes towards those who have suffered such abuse. Sometimes the victims are made to feel guilty and even rejected by menfolk for these reasons. And men in general are not truthful as to what they think (or would do) if this happened to their wives/sisters etc. You will most probably get politically (religiously) correct answers which won't reflect the sad reality on the ground.

I've noticed you speak a lot of things generally. Are you afraid to take a solid viewpoint?

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WFH, I like some of your threads, some are interesting but this is one of the 'other' ones. You should never ask a woman about sexual assaults that have happened to her, ever. That's private information and even if their real identity is hidden on the forum, still private information. 

 

This thread should be deleted and not just locked.

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You use the word 'generally' or 'in general' a lot lol

 

Because I don't like to make blanket, sweeping statements.

 

Because there are always exceptions to every rule.

 

Because whenever I make a generalisation I want others to know that I'm generalising to make a point.

 

and things like that.

 

This isn't about not taking a solid stance; this is about not seeing things in black and white, absolutist terms - the favourite pastime of SCers.

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Ws,

Actually victums may feel safer to open up online about their assult because no one knows them and they can express how the delt with it. Some may actual learn how to over come it and open up. Remmber online no one knows you so its much easier to discuss such thing because you dont have to worry about being judged.

Woman and men should be encourged to tell their stories and we should not judge them or make them feel bad. And we should learn from them, what to do and how to deal with it or even advice them.

For your first question, they face major consquences because socity makes them feel rejected, guility and tells them they should be ashamed. Ofcourse their are understand people out their that help the victum. Victums should only open up to someone they trust and then they should have thearpy about how to over come it. However,we must not forget that when the victum is in a relationship they will/may remmber what happened and may even start imagening the attackers face, so this may/can distroy there sexual relationship and marriage in general. Socity needs to be educated and there should be punishments for those that hurt (mentaliy) the victum thro words or actions.

Not all victmes will distrust men but that fear of having the same thing happening to them may be in there heads. It's just like us if we have a bad experience we will think will that happen to me again if I take this person. Some victums will distrust every man they see and will not feel comfortable around men.

If you think about it even people that have not been abused get scared sharing some information with their future partner. Why is that? Its the same reason victums have in there heads, am going to get judged, he/she will tell everyone, socity will make them feel gulity and where always told to keep our darkest secrets to ourself, so no one can hurt us...

A few victumes may tell there future partners, just like some men/woman will tell their parenters about there sexual relationship before marriage. It's all fear within oneself.

Socity is to be blamed for all this, they will be punished for making victums kill themself and not live like normal people. Some victums carry on with there lifes which is a fanatatic step and may god help those that are facing hardship over come it.

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Thanks sisters Kim.T and DuN to support the thread.

All those brothers who have so far opposed to this thread, I didn't mean sisters to share their particular ordeals. They could also share of their friends and families. Don't we all agree that many many many women, even if not face physical abuse, do face verbal and ogling abuse almost every day? This includes our mothers, sisters, and daughters. This world is full of monsters of men who would, on every corner of the street make women feel wanted in a bad way. I can safely say almost 100% of women have at least faced a sexually toned verbal abuse! a hustling, a whistle, and in places where they are in a public transport, even inappropriate touching.

Brothers, the questions I asked you from male perspective, are also so relevant. Answering some of them actually could put some sisters here at ease of the abuse society throws at them daily and habitually.

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I don't think a woman is obligated to tell her future husband, and I suspect many men would rather not know, but if it continues to effect her life, for example if she fears men or suffers nightmares, it would probably be a good idea to let her husband know.

In the culture that I've grown up in, women are not really blamed, so I'm much more open about this subject than some would be.

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My concern is that if a female does open up on this thread that they will eventually be told by at least a couple of males (and females that want to impress them) that they deserved it – it was their fault.  They will be interrogated. Someone will question their hijab, someone will question their activity at the time, who they were with, what they had for lunch, the colour of their clothes and some will question whether they made eye contact, etc. – they will be put on the defensive and be critiqued by those “pious” folks on here and made to feel that they are a blight on society that needs to be removed. They will be blamed and re-victimized and possibly suffer hurt in ways you will never get to see online. This is a set up for this to happen and you must know this. 

Edited by Maryaam

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Thanks sisters Kim.T and DuN to support the thread.

All those brothers who have so far opposed to this thread, I didn't mean sisters to share their particular ordeals. They could also share of their friends and families. Don't we all agree that many many many women, even if not face physical abuse, do face verbal and ogling abuse almost every day? This includes our mothers, sisters, and daughters. This world is full of monsters of men who would, on every corner of the street make women feel wanted in a bad way. I can safely say almost 100% of women have at least faced a sexually toned verbal abuse! a hustling, a whistle, and in places where they are in a public transport, even inappropriate touching.

Brothers, the questions I asked you from male perspective, are also so relevant. Answering some of them actually could put some sisters here at ease of the abuse society throws at them daily and habitually.

The assumptions that belie this discussion are extremely worrisome. It objectifies, patronizes, and will ostracize individuals who have already been through a lot. First off, it is extremely paternalistic and humiliating to demand or rationalize a particular sort of behavior for women because they're our mothers, sisters, and daughters. Respect and the sovereignty of person is a basic right that every person is entitled to irrespective of gender and has nothing to do with the sort of relationship a woman has with any one. This is true for whether a woman is your mother or a sex worker actively soliciting on a street corner. So if you are going to continue with this discussion don't trivialize women by alluding to some of man's basest instincts: the whole "what if she's your mother, sister etc." If that's what you've to think about to yourself before you can justify speaking against abuse, then you're part of the problem.

 

Second, contrary to the popular belief, this world is not "full of monsters who would, on every corner of the street make women feel wanted in a bad way". I repeat myself in saying that an overwhelming majority of the perpetrators of abuse, sexual or otherwise (and especially of assault), are well known to their victims. This includes "normal" people like fathers, brothers, boyfriends, husbands, cousins, teachers, clergy, and friends -- i.e. people whom the victims trust.

 

The questions you've asked are the type of questions that are the problem and perpetuate cycles of abuse. The question shouldn't be an open-ended "brothers what would you do before/after marriage?" To me, there's a clear implication that you want to know if some guys would break off the marriage because of what a potential partner said about abuse. That such a choice exists is the crux of the problem here - it should be absolutely rejected and vilified. The right questions should be "how does one support a partner who has experienced abuse? What strategies can we employ within our communities, especially Muslim communities, to create safe spaces for individuals who have been abused and remain silent or guilt-ridden? etc." Anyone who thinks that such a choice should exist, is no different than someone who would be okay with any other moral sins that we as a society have come together to condemn out rightly i.e. slavery, racism etc.

 

My concern is that if a female does open up on this thread that they will eventually be told by at least a couple of males (and females that want to impress them) that they deserved it – it was their fault.  They will be interrogated. Someone will question their hijab, someone will question their activity at the time, who they were with, what they had for lunch, the colour of their clothes and some will question whether they made eye contact, etc. – they will be put on the defensive and be critiqued by those “pious” folks on here and made to feel that they are a blight on society that needs to be removed. They will be blamed and re-victimized and possibly suffer hurt in ways you will never get to see online. This is a set up for this to happen and you must know this. 

Precisely, my concern. But for now, I will treat this is as a case of ignorance about abuse rather than one of malicious intent, under the guise of piety. This is a discussion that must happen, however on a radically different foundation.

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Quote

Sisters: How do those who have suffered through the sexual assault (minor, major, touching or brushing by a stranger in a public transport etc), face the consequences?

Sisters: What kind of psychological issues you face later? (E.g. do you start distrusting all males?)

Sisters: How you cope with the mental pain or psychological trauma?

Sisters: Would you ever be telling this to your spouses (esp husbands) now or in future?

Salam,

I think it is important to discuss this topic especially since every 1 in 6 women (or every 1 in 5) has encountered some sort of assault in her lifetime. I am sure this includes many muslim women.

But in advice to the OP if you ask sisters in general what they would do if such thing happened I am sure many sisters would gladly answer. This way it wouldn't be specified if the sister is talking out of experience or not.

And I will answer based on this.

Q- Sisters: How do those who have suffered through the sexual assault (minor, major, touching or brushing by a stranger in a public transport etc), face the consequences?

A- Well, from what I have seen, in great secrecy. For many women this is accompanied by a great deal of shame as well. It becomes their deepest darkest secret I'd say. In case of a "major consequence" like pregnancy well that is another problem all together particularly for muslim woman.

Q-Sisters: What kind of psychological issues you face later? (E.g. do you start distrusting all males?)

A- A common issue is trauma. For wiser women they should have no problem realizing that good men like their fathers, uncles, peers... exist. Other women will certainly become distrustfull of men in general -this also depends on the the age of the girl (young girls take it the hardest). Such an experience can silence her and make her less outgoing and positive generally.

Q-Sisters: How you cope with the mental pain or psychological trauma?

A- Forgetting , I guess. Putting as much time as possible between me and what happened.

Q-Sisters: Would you ever be telling this to your spouses (esp husbands) now or in future?

A- If it is an important part of who I am today then yes and if I'm worried that someone might convey to him the wrong idea then I'd rather he hears it from me first. Other than that I dont think it is important for the sister to mention it especially if she is already over it at it has no present relevancy.

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My concern is that if a female does open up on this thread that they will eventually be told by at least a couple of males (and females that want to impress them) that they deserved it – it was their fault.  They will be interrogated. Someone will question their hijab, someone will question their activity at the time, who they were with, what they had for lunch, the colour of their clothes and some will question whether they made eye contact, etc. – they will be put on the defensive and be critiqued by those “pious” folks on here and made to feel that they are a blight on society that needs to be removed. They will be blamed and re-victimized and possibly suffer hurt in ways you will never get to see online. This is a set up for this to happen and you must know this. 

 

That's basically what happened in the thread that the opening poster referred to. So much so that the cultural conditioning led the thread-starter to title it as "Am I at fault?". So questioning herself by herself despite knowing full well that she wasn't at fault.

Final decision to lunge at the woman is exclusively that of the rapist even if the woman is a FEMEN naturalist found alone in a secluded forest glade. Unless she literally invites him to rape her (which won't be a 'rape'), she can't be blamed at all.

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My concern is that if a female does open up on this thread that they will eventually be told by at least a couple of males (and females that want to impress them) that they deserved it – it was their fault.  They will be interrogated. Someone will question their hijab, someone will question their activity at the time, who they were with, what they had for lunch, the colour of their clothes and some will question whether they made eye contact, etc. – they will be put on the defensive and be critiqued by those “pious” folks on here and made to feel that they are a blight on society that needs to be removed. They will be blamed and re-victimized and possibly suffer hurt in ways you will never get to see online. This is a set up for this to happen and you must know this.

I see your point and theirs no doudt that most people that reject the thread and the ones that supported it had this in their mind. A couple of people will be ignorent, and the most shameful thing is when a woman agrees with a man that blames the woman for being raped or assulted. My only message to those people that defend murders and attackers is your as bad as them. If you justify such thing then clearly your a abuser and rapesit, if not physically then mentalliy you are. And for those that do comment about such a sensetive topic, think before you question and think of 70 excause before you judge the victum and say to your self how would I have felt if someone accused me of being the cause of the attack. Am not going to say imagen it was your mother,sister or daughter in that situation because some people are mentally sick and they would blame there own relatives. Such dogs should not be given the chance to even speak in this thread.

It's about time we encourage victums to speak up and we need to show them that majority of us are with them and it's time to teach those ignorent people that most of us know whos to be blamed.

If we keep saying this is private and may hurt them to discuss the experenice then we to are supporting oppression by not helping them open up and making them feel like its wrong or it will harm you more to tell your story. We should all help them open up, this might be their first step, telling us only then they may have the courage to go do something about it.

We also must not forget woman that get raped in marriages because that's a crime too and has many psychological affects on the woman, specially if its coming for a man she loved. And we must also not forget that men that have been abused have a even harder time then woman to open up and they 'may' pass on what happened to them to someone else.

I hope at least one person opens up and hope that they get the courage to move on with their lifes and know that their are people with them,we will support you no matter what.

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^Thank you. This is the appropriate framework within which to have this discussion. It should recognize the sensitivity of the matter and the effects that the discussion can have on someone who has experienced abuse. Second, it should do away with the erroneous assumptions that abuse happens in dark alleyways and that perpetrators are some sort of deranged social outcasts. Third, it should eschew a patronizing and humiliating attitude towards women by way of recognition or respect based on relationships, rather than their personhood.

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i agree that while this thread may be uncomfortable & anxiety for some ppl , a good topic we can discuss maybe on chances that some sisters felt or thought they will be assaulted by someone & what they did to avoid that situation in terms of help or through their actions.

like there a topic I wanted to discuss on "public pictures" don't know if already discuss on SC but I fear this A LOT cuz I was put in this situation twice. now I'm talking about when some men will try take pics of u in public without ur permission. like from their mobile or ipod or something.

any girls here face this before? how can a sister know if she being photographed & how can we bring like justice to person who did this? i think we cannot go to the person & demand to see what's on their fone right?

like the 2nd time this happen to me I was sitting in waiting area & i recognised a man seemed like he was filming me , & his wife sitting next to him but I don't think she know what he doing. but I told the secretary in that place what I feel is going on , she went up to him & told him to point his fine downwards cuz some ppl getting offended. but I very think he did film me & how I can know next time? i am so afraid of this happening again , Allah yester!

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If someone is taking pictures of you and you are sure of it then the best thing you can do is report it. I know its hard to really find out if he is taking a picture. Remmber that attackers will follow you so if you move and can see the camra moving to your side then,his probably is taking a pic or even recording. Something simailer happened to my sister friend, the guy took picturse but he also want next to her and said some inapproprite things, the girl got scared so she reported it and thats the best thing a woman can do. Remmber how the attacker looks like, remmber some specific features what his wearing and what time it happened, because when you report it they will ask you these questions. Then they will bring simialer looking criminales and you will have to choose ,remmber to look very carefully at the criminales they put infront of you and only pick when your sure. Anyways after the girl reported it , it seemed like the guy had been reported before so the police found him and he had pictures of the girl and other girls on his pc.

The issue with this picture thing is it can happen and we might not take it seriously. I recommened you report it because their may be other victums waiting for that one other person to report to open a case.

Salams

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^ salaam, im just wondering why would a perverted guy want to take pics of a girl who is fully in hijab?

I mean, if she was wearing mini skirts or dressed indecently then I get why, but im assuming sister mile wears hijab, thus I cant understand the reason they would take your pics :/

 

 

 

these are people of the same mentality who oggle at women , who even have their face covered, and just the eyes are exposed.

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I think it is an important topic. There are some sisters who are victims but they don't know what to do, don't feel comfortable going to their family or a sheik. It is important that they try to seek justice. They can discuss without using their name or personal information. If they are not comfortable, that is o.k. too. May Allah(s.w.a) help all our sisters who are victims of this crime. 

 

Also, like sis kim.tinkerbell said, it is important that any incidents are reported to police so they can track these criminals. They depend on women not reporting so they can keep doing their crimes. We, as muslims, should not accept this situation. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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. Avoid being alone.

 

Just last Sunday, a young woman got abducted and assaulted in our vicinity, which also happens to be a high security area, and that too in bright daylight....   yes, AVOID BEING ALONE A ALL COSTS, WHETHER AT HOME OR OUT.

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If someone is taking pictures of you and you are sure of it then the best thing you can do is report it. I know its hard to really find out if he is taking a picture. Remmber that attackers will follow you so if you move and can see the camra moving to your side then,his probably is taking a pic or even recording. Something simailer happened to my sister friend, the guy took picturse but he also want next to her and said some inapproprite things, the girl got scared so she reported it and thats the best thing a woman can do. Remmber how the attacker looks like, remmber some specific features what his wearing and what time it happened, because when you report it they will ask you these questions. Then they will bring simialer looking criminales and you will have to choose ,remmber to look very carefully at the criminales they put infront of you and only pick when your sure. Anyways after the girl reported it , it seemed like the guy had been reported before so the police found him and he had pictures of the girl and other girls on his pc.

The issue with this picture thing is it can happen and we might not take it seriously. I recommened you report it because their may be other victums waiting for that one other person to report to open a case.

Salams

 

thanks for sharing ur story and offering advice, ur right reporting it is the best thing one can do, since its best to avoid the person at all.

^ salaam, im just wondering why would a perverted guy want to take pics of a girl who is fully in hijab?

I mean, if she was wearing mini skirts or dressed indecently then I get why, but im assuming sister mile wears hijab, thus I cant understand the reason they would take your pics :/

 

yes Im hijabi and sometimes wear abaya , i really don't know why some crazy ppl would do that but it does happen. the clothes dont prevent these perverts from doing their usual perverted stuff, u will be surprised though

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