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In the Name of God بسم الله

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(salam)

 

First time I ever made 10 tags for a topic :P

 

Anyway, why do so many people find it so hard to digest the concept of a false flag attack? I mean, just about every single corrupt government has carried it out over the centuries...

 

Even among some people close to me, like a cousin of mine who has read hundreds of books on war, geopolitical history etc., he keeps on sticking to the idea that 9/11 being an inside job of the government is preposterous (IT SHOULD BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!).

 

For fifty years, people laughed and mocked at the conspiracy theorists who kept claiming that JFK was murdered by joint coalition of the CIA, Mossad, the Mafia and the Feds. In 2007, ex CIA agent E. Howard Hunt exposed everything that the CTs alleged to be true

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Howard_Hunt#Posthumous_allegations:_.22deathbed_confession.22_of_involvement_in_JFK_Assassination

 

The above was just an example. I would like to gauge what the crowd at SC thinks about False Flags. Then we'll continue from there.

 

 

Edited by HellHound

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False flag operations happen and big conspiracies also happen. There have been many examples we see in the past, now proven and documented, and there are examples from the present times. But a conspiracy theory is only a theory. If it is proven without doubt, it wouldn't be a conspiracy theory anymore.

 

The problem with today's conspiracy theorists is that they ascribe to the Western governments too much power to control the events and happenings in the word. This is a great, almost comical exaggeration.

 

Claiming 9/11 to be an inside job completely changes the whole security paradigm of the world, and it doesn't explain so many actions of the US and its allies post 9/11.

 

To think 9/11 was an inside job (inside job, as in it was conceptualised, planned and executed by the apparatus of US regime or by its complete knowledge/acquiescence) is without doubt a preposterous, ludicrous proposition.


This is simply because no operation of this magnitude could be successfully kept secret for more than a few weeks. The "site" of operation was too public and the dangers of whistleblowers too great. And despite, there was absolutely no need for the US to resort to this self-flagellating violence-porn to make wars.

 

There are false flag operations on the war ground. Dummy bombs going off to be used as excuse to launch operations in location x. Or, so and so militia is secretly funded to create chaos and one day the US decides to take a U-turn and goes after that militia. Or even diffusing 'bombs' and capturing 'terrorists' on US soil regularly to keep the public in fear. These are the sort of false flag ops the US has mastered. (They don't really need to have a train station blown up to keep that fear and therefore wouldn't blow their own country).

 

Your cousin's meticulous readings have paid off. Thank God he doesn't take most his knowledge from the internet but by real, actual, hard books, printed by publishers at a cost and acquired with money of his own :D

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To think 9/11 was an inside job (inside job, as in it was conceptualised, planned and executed by the apparatus of US regime or by its complete knowledge/acquiescence) is without doubt a preposterous, ludicrous proposition.

 

The reason why conspiracy theories gain traction is when the official version sounds preposterous!

 

It's argued that a group of novices took flying lessons on simulators, which trained them highly enough to be able to fly Boeings with pinpoint accuracy and that an operation of this scale and complexity was organised from a cave in Afghanistan.

 

What would have seemed preposterous, but about which we have rock-solid evidence, is that a nation could go to war, kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and at the same time have thousands of its own soldiers killed and maimed all on the basis of a complete lie.

 

Again you would have thought that it was preposterous that Colin Powell could pull off the lie at the Security Council - but he did.

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They fight alqa'ida in Afghanistan but pay them in Syria lol

 

Where is the conspiracy in that? 

 

The attacked Iraq with claims of WMD, they tortured many in Abu ghraib, they are supporting the Sunnis who are supporting Alqa'ida which should be the USA enemy… oh but before this shift in friend/enemy/friend relationship, they killed bin laden in a military base in Pakistan, one of their allies after …7 years of war? or was it ten? Then they tossed him in sea.

 

And now the Jews are coming back to Babil after the displacement of original Christians who were murdered by Alqa'ida.

 

If that's a conspiracy, i'll cut my hand.

 

They destroyed the tow towers before the great collapse of the American economy which benefited non but the great corporations who are funding the great corporations, stealing people taxes

 

AND, they said they have legitimate cause to spy on every one of us in our own houses.

 

conspiracy?

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It's argued that a group of novices took flying lessons on simulators, which trained them highly enough to be able to fly Boeings with pinpoint accuracy and that an operation of this scale and complexity was organised from a cave in Afghanistan.

 

Oh no, not you, bro :squeez:

 

With reference to the quoted line, if we put it like this then obviously it sounds preposterous. But let's not forget pre-9/11 history.

 

The 'cavemen' were actually the most trained guerrilla force in the world which defeated the Soviets in the mountains of Afghanistan. They had access to funds, human assets, and they had previously on many occasions demonstrated that their capability of striking extended far beyond the caves of Afghanistan. For example, it was one of the relative of the 9/11 architect who blew up WTC back in 1993. (perhaps that was also a false flag op?)

 

Some people don't know the history and think the 9/11 attack came out of the blue.

 

The US establishment padded up its case of war with lies and false intelligence, that is true, but how the US reacted to 9/11 is another story.

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The reason it is hard to accept 'conspiracy theories' is that the mainstream media almost never touch upon them. In fact, they almost always support the official story. And then you have these people harassing the truthers aka conspiracy theorists.

 

9/11 poses serious questions. And yes, the US is willing to risks its reputation to continue its domination. Unfortunately (for the USA), the post 9/11 plan backfired, instead of occupying countries, they only occupied piles of debt making itself vulnerable to others moves.

 

The last time I think I read that 46% of Americans dont believe in the official 9/11 story anymore. So I contend that false flag concept is not so alien anymore.

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Every conspiracy theory has the potential to be partially or fully true. Or not. Even the "facts" may or may not be true.

 

Yes, it is for this reason I do not discount the possibility that the US government knew something serious was up but did little or nothing to prevent it, partly to cash on its aftermath, which, as we know, they took full advantage of.

 

I also don't think we have heard the full story with all its complementing details; future declassified documents will reveal exactly what happened. however, even if we take an agnostic view to 9/11 (and other such incidents), it doesn't automatically necessitates us to believe 9/11 was a false flag pulled by the American establishment.

 

If people believe in false flag attacks their whole world will become upside down. It's more comfortable to maintain the status quo and believe everything really is ok

 

Au contraire, believing in all sorts of conspiracy theories out there provides us with a simple, ready-made, black-and-white view of reality. It is easier than handling the world and its politics with all its complexity and contradictions.

 

Moreover, once you believe in a few major conspiracy theories that have little basis in reality, you are compelled to interpret all succeeding events in the light of the theories you have come to believe in, thus masking your ability to analyse world events on their own merits.

 

For example there might be (there are!) a lot of lies the US establishment told when it took out Bin Laden in Pakistan but those who believe in 9/11 conspiracy theory are compelled to see the assassination of Bin Laden as a false flag too. But they don't have the alternative history of Bin Laden; if he's not dead, where is he, or if he died long before the US raid, when and how he died etc. This is a dangerous attitude as it reduces your ability to see things for what they are.

 

Furthermore, if you read the works of those journalists/individuals who have closely followed Al-Qaidah terrorism in the region where they operate(d) from, from Robert Fisk to Rahimullah Yousafzai, you will see that none of them set much store by 9/11 conspiracy theories, or doubt the capability of Bin Laden and Co to execute such terrorist attacks. If there were things worth telling you'd think those people would be the first to sound the alarm.

Edited by Marbles

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If you ever look from the point of view of the 'establishment' or the status quo, everything new and unique is a conspiracy theory.

For the Abu Lahb, Abu Sufyan, and Abu Jahl team, the message of Islam of a conspiracy theory.

For Pharoah, the message of Moses was a conspiracy theory.

For the church, the concept of earth revolves around sun was a conspiracy theory.

For the Jews, Jesus birth was a conspiracy theory.

For Wahabi/Sunni cult, everything new, including the loudspeakers, the radio, the tv, the computers were the conspiracy theories till they got a chine to use it for themselves.

Bottom line, only the intelligent and free thinking people believe in unseen. Dumb and dumbers go for the 'official lines'.

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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people who follow the imperial official line are either just plain dumb, or are benefiting in some way from the official line... There are a few aspects of conspiracy theories ... 1. is recognizing that there are conspiracies, and therefore understanding that the imperialists are bankrupt.  2) Following from 1) ... now we need to do something about it, allowing such an empire to maintain its grip on the planet is horrendous... ... and therefore 3) what we need to do... and 4) doing it.... 

 

In the western context - most people just stop at 1. That's like the donkey carrying a whole bunch of books on its back... pointless just knowing the facts. Or, they take it to a level - such as aliens controlling the planet, or secretive groups who cannot be identified. 

 

A conspiracy theory becomes dangerous for the ruling imperial class, and their lackeys - when the conspiracy theory leads to ... 2, 3, and 4 ... 

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Some people don't know the history and think the 9/11 attack came out of the blue.

 

 

Agreed that they had capabilities. But the specific point about flying Boeings still applies. I've yet to see a credible explanation for that. My own belief is that there were Saudi airforce pilots involved. Which then begs lots of other questions.

 

 

The US establishment padded up its case of war with lies and false intelligence, that is true, but how the US reacted to 9/11 is another story.

 

Well it is part of the same story in the sense that it explains the motive for the U.S. wanting a false flag operation.

 

'False flag' has a range of meanings IMHO. Were thousands of Americans accomplices in the attacks? No. But, for example, were some Americans charged with Al-Qaeda surveillance deliberately looking the other way? Yes.

 

Also remember that just as only the pilot hijackers needed to know the whole story (the other hijackers may have gone on the ride expecting to extract concessions); so the thousands of Americans whose co-operation was needed may have only needed to know what was essential for them and not the complete picture.

 

Because, regardless of whatever competence Al-Qaeda acquired, there was too much in the way of happenstance, which would definitely have been out of their control.

 

So these theories will remain until the official explanation is credible enough to discount them.

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IbnSohan: one conspiracy theory goes: al-Qaida is really the US, it is Usama who "got off the reservation".

 

 

Heard anything about Ayman al-Zawahiri? Last I heard he is in Central Asia preparing to go play with the Iranians (Asian gov't source)

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IbnSohan: one conspiracy theory goes: al-Qaida is really the US, it is Usama who "got off the reservation".

 

 

Heard anything about Ayman al-Zawahiri? Last I heard he is in Central Asia preparing to go play with the Iranians (Asian gov't source)

not sure where is "Ayman" like if that figure ever existed. But amid the Syrian mess, it is hard to keep track of who is who and who is against who. The show star today is Abu Bakr alBaghdadi. Funni names honestly, maybe tomorrow he will get killed or simply forgotten.

AlQa'ida means the base, it is a legitimate question to ask about its inventor and what he meant by Al'qaida. This can solve some of the mystery riddles.

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Jebril: this, "al-Qaida", was a field euphemism for the Paki located support center during the Afghan Resistance. It was later coopted so that when Al-Qaida 2 was set up before DesertSheild//DesertStorm the mujahedeen would know who was organizing it.

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Your cousin's meticulous readings have paid off. Thank God he doesn't take most his knowledge from the internet but by real, actual, hard books, printed by publishers at a cost and acquired with money of his own :D

(salam)

C'mon bro... I take my knowledge from books as well you know... Here's a few examples:-

 

http://www.amazon.com/Documents-Government-Doesnt-Want-Read/dp/B00AZ80NJ0

Jesse-Ventura-63-Documents-the-Governmen

 

In this book, Jesse Ventura covers seemingly outrageous conspiracies like Project MKUltra, a human experimentation program where they used behavioral modification techniques to train and program sleeper assassination agents with full collaboration with the CIA. This program continues even today, now under the control of DARPA - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA

 

He also covers a very crucial part of the 9/11 conspiracy - the insider trading that went on DAYS before the attack took place! 

 

And do you know what he uses to support his arguments? Official declassified documents by the US Govt. 

 

And then there's this book of his - http://www.amazon.com/DemoCRIPS-ReBLOODlicans-More-Gangs-Government/dp/1616084480

51ZdzPgCIRL._SL500_AA300_PIaudible,Botto

In this book, he exposes several scandals and cover-ups from various top-brass members (including Baracks OBOMBa) of the two dominant parties of the US, again using official declassified documents by the US Govt.

 

Sorry to say, but my cousin hasn't read the real stuff. The books above are just a few of the massive pool of books out there written by ex-CIA, DIA, DoD etc. agents and analysts who have repeatedly exposed these massive crimes. Obviously their voices go unheard or they are put down before they can further publicize their dissent...

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^

 

I'd like to make one thing clear. As I have hinted earlier in the thread, the official line or even the mainstream, dominant view about 9/11 is not the full story. Legitimate questions should be asked. But it shouldn't automatically lead us to believe it was a false flag in the manner it is understood by the so called truthers.

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^

 

I'd like to make one thing clear. As I have hinted earlier in the thread, the official line or even the mainstream, dominant view about 9/11 is not the full story. Legitimate questions should be asked. But it shouldn't automatically lead us to believe it was a false flag in the manner it is understood by the so called truthers.

No just admit it already... You are a paid CIA/NSA/DIA/DOD agent here to spread disinformation...

 

:P

 

That aside, yes I agree that truthers get a little to far-fetched a lot of the time.

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"Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."

Jesse Ventura was not (to my knowledge) ex-CIA or anything. He was a pro-wrestler before he got into politics. There certainly is stuff going on that is hidden from the public. Here's my conspiracy theory: conspiracy theories are intentionally wildly exaggerated to discredit them and banish to the fringes all who question the official story. False flag attacks? Maybe, maybe not. I can't tell truth from lies in the media.

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"Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."

Jesse Ventura was not (to my knowledge) ex-CIA or anything. He was a pro-wrestler before he got into politics. There certainly is stuff going on that is hidden from the public. Here's my conspiracy theory: conspiracy theories are intentionally wildly exaggerated to discredit them and banish to the fringes all who question the official story. False flag attacks? Maybe, maybe not. I can't tell truth from lies in the media.

I didn't mean to say he was ex-CIA. But he was a Vietnam War veteran and two-time governor of Minnesota.

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