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In the Name of God بسم الله

Ahlulbayt Hadith Books And Authenticity

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Ewrim

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Selaam my dear sisters and brothers. Dear brothers and sisters, i have a some questions in my mind, really it will be good if you can help me.


- Brother and sisters, how can we know or proof that the Ahlalbait hadeeth books (such as Bihar-ul Anwaar, el Vafi, al Kafi, Wasael ush-Shia etc) are reliable, authentic and convincing?
 

 

- How can we know or proof that the Shia narratos are reliable, authentic and convincing?


-And how can we know that the author of the school of Ahlalbait hadith books are reliable and convincing scholars?

 

- Are there even narrations in the Sunni rijaal books about the Ashab'ul Ijma? Or the companions of the 12 Imams, that they are authentic and reliable? 

Can you show the evidence with logical and rational proofs? And even neutral, such as both side (Sunni and Shia)


Please forgive me if i did bother you brothers and sisters,
You unworthy brother, Evrim

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Selaam my dear sisters and brothers. Dear brothers and sisters, i have a some questions in my mind, really it will be good if you can help me.

- Brother and sisters, how can we know or proof that the Ahlalbait hadeeth books (such as Bihar-ul Anwaar, el Vafi, al Kafi, Wasael ush-Shia etc) are reliable, authentic and convincing?

 

 

- How can we know or proof that the Shia narratos are reliable, authentic and convincing?

-And how can we know that the author of the school of Ahlalbait hadith books are reliable and convincing scholars?

 

- Are there even narrations in the Sunni rijaal books about the Ashab'ul Ijma? Or the companions of the 12 Imams, that they are authentic and reliable? 

Can you show the evidence with logical and rational proofs? And even neutral, such as both side (Sunni and Shia)

Please forgive me if i did bother you brothers and sisters,

You unworthy brother, Evrim

(salam)

 

Brother I feel something strange about you, how come you know there is Ashab'ul Ijma in Shia, and yet you dont know how Shia Books and Scholars are Reliable? Did someone asked you these question.

 

(wasalam)

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(salam)

 

Brother I feel something strange about you, how come you know there is Ashab'ul Ijma in Shia, and yet you dont know how Shia Books and Scholars are Reliable? Did someone asked you these question.

 

(wasalam)

 

 

Selaam my dear brother :) Brother, Ashab'ul Ijma are eighteen are eighteen Muhaddith and Islamic scholar who had direct contacts with Shia Imams and great knowledge in religion. Source: Sachedina (1998), p.157

 

And look this brother: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_companions

 

But how can we proof to Sunni's (of course as neutral) that Shia narrators are reliable?

 

For example about in the sunni books admits some sunni scholars that Jabiri Jufi(ra) ( companion of Imam Jaferi Sadiq(as) that he was reliable:

 

و قال عبد الرحمن بن مهدى ، عن سفيان : كان جابر ورعا فى الحديث ما رأيت أورع فى الحديث منه .

 

And `Abd ar-Rahman b. Mahdi narrated from Sufyan [al-Thawri]: Jabir was righteous in the narration of hadith. I have not seen anyone more pious in the narration of hadith than him.

و قال إسماعيل ابن علية ، عن شعبة : جابر صدوق فى الحديث .

 

And Isma`il b. `Ulayh narrated from Shu`ba: Jabir was truthful in the narration of hadith.

و قال يحيى بن أبى بكير ، عن شعبة : كان جابر إذا قال : " حدثنا " ، و " سمعت " ، فهو من أوثق الناس .

 

And Yahya b. Abi Bukayr narrated from Shu`ba: Whenever Jabir said, "So-and-so narrated to us..." and "I heard...", he was from the most trustworthy of people.

و قال يحيى بن أبى بكير أيضا ، عن زهير بن معاوية : كان إذا قال : " سمعت " ، أو " سألت " ، فهو من أصدق الناس .

 

And Yahya b. Abi Bukayr also narrated from Zuhayr b. Mu`awiya: Whenever he said, "I heard..." or "I asked...", he was from the most truthful of people.

و قال على بن محمد الطنافسى ، عن وكيع : مهما شككتم فى شىء ، فلا تشكوا فى أن جابر ثقة ، حدثنا عنه مسعر ، و سفيان و شعبة ، و حسن بن صالح .

 

And `Ali b. Muhammad al-Tanafasi narrated from Waki`: If you were to doubt, then do not doubt that Jabir is trustworthy. Mas`ar, Sufyan, Shu`ba, and Hasan b. Salih all narrated to us about him.

 

 

But dear brothers, what about for example: ( Hammad bin Isa, Abu Baseer, Abu Hamza Thumali etc) ?

 

 

 

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Selaam my dear sisters and brothers. Dear brothers and sisters, i have a some questions in my mind, really it will be good if you can help me.

- Brother and sisters, how can we know or proof that the Ahlalbait hadeeth books (such as Bihar-ul Anwaar, el Vafi, al Kafi, Wasael ush-Shia etc) are reliable, authentic and convincing?

 

 

- How can we know or proof that the Shia narratos are reliable, authentic and convincing?

-And how can we know that the author of the school of Ahlalbait hadith books are reliable and convincing scholars?

 

- Are there even narrations in the Sunni rijaal books about the Ashab'ul Ijma? Or the companions of the 12 Imams, that they are authentic and reliable? 

Can you show the evidence with logical and rational proofs? And even neutral, such as both side (Sunni and Shia)

Please forgive me if i did bother you brothers and sisters,

You unworthy brother, Evrim

 

Bismillah

 

For the first few questions the answer is simple. It's similar to how you know about anything in history (the past). Hearing/reading the information from/by people whom you trust (both in their truthfulness and in their accuracy - otherwise you wouldn't trust them).

 

The discussions concerning the 'jarh' and 'tadlil' of narrators, and such authentication or weakening being based on 'hissi or non-hissi sources have been discussed in other threads or at least in some books (`alaykum bi-l-Mohsini - Shaykh Asif that is). I can point them out to you if you know Arabic.

 

Why would Sunnites care, record or even know who the 'ashaab al-ijma'' within the Shiite school are? What do they have to do with the Ahlulbayt (as binding proofs in religion) and their companions. That's like looking for a brownie recipe in a geography book - you'd looking in the wrong place.  

 

The only logical and rational proof is that people listen to the words of others whom they deem trustworthy and truthful. That's how the common people function in their day to day lives.

 

It's a matter of history and what happened, these are all textual sciences, it's not really correct to speak about rationality and logic (if you're referring to formal logic that is) here.

Edited by Al-Englisi
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Bismillah

For the first few questions the answer is simple. It's similar to how you know about anything in history (the past). Hearing/reading the information from/by people whom you trust (both in their truthfulness and in their accuracy - otherwise you wouldn't trust them).

The discussions concerning the 'jarh' and 'tadlil' of narrators, and such authentication or weakening being based on 'hissi or non-hissi sources have been discussed in other threads or at least in some books (`alaykum bi-l-Mohsini - Shaykh Asif that is). I can point them out to you if you know Arabic.

Why would Sunnites care, record or even know who the 'ashaab al-ijma'' within the Shiite school are? What do they have to do with the Ahlulbayt (as binding proofs in religion) and their companions. That's like looking for a brownie recipe in a geography place - you'd looking in the wrong place.

The only logical and rational proof is that people listen to the words of others whom they deem trustworthy and truthful. That's how the common people function in their day to day lives.

It's a matter of history and what happened, these are all textual sciences, it's not really correct to speak about rationality and logic (if you're referring to formal logic that is) here.

On point brother. The only logic that can apply is you denoting that a liar is untrustworthy and vis-versa.

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(salam)

some questions and issues are internal ones, and we have no concern how to prove them including Ahl Tasannon.

 

This is the same if you say how to prove the reliability and authentication of those books and so on to a Cristian or a Jew.

 

However we're supposed to prove the basis of our beliefs, such as Imamah (which is called external issues) then these minor questions will be solved subsequently.

(warning: you can't get through those major ones and verify them using your own references.)

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