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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Lordofgemini

A Serious Question!

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Salaam!

I have been using the app called "freedom" for a while now. The purpose of this app us to make the in-app purchases free. Now I am worried if this is counted as stealing. Because I have purchased more then $ 3000 for free.

If this lawful. And if its not then piracy is also unlawful right?

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(Salam)

Well, According to http://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01153/ , if it has a copy right, then it is haram to copy it.

I was thinking what about those torrents, can we still torrent movies and softwares, where someone else already uploaded it for us to download for free. And maybe they paid for it in the first place.

(Wasalam)

Edited by SlaveOfAllah14

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Yes, it is stealing.  Perhaps it is overpriced.  Perhaps the software companies are unjust.  But it is still stealing to knowingly use a software to get things for free that are supposed to be paid.  

 

The question is not "is it stealing" but "is this stealing justified".

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^Stealing would be, if you take something and you can return it. Try to return apps worth $ 3000.

So if you steal a loaf of bread and eat it, it wasn't stealing?

 

You can rationalize it however you like.  If it isn't illegal where you live, have fun with it.  But it is still stealing.  Maybe sometimes some stealing is justified.  If you were a programmer, would you object to people having your work without paying for it?  Some people would, others wouldn't.  

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The user Sami would tell you it is not stealing as the person who created that created the app on something already loaned so there is no stealing unless you steal somebody's cow

My dear baby brother who is grasshopper in the making , ( my kids are older than you btw) .

Let me clarify what I said as you seem to go around SC putting "words in people's mouths ".

 

Under :Islamic definition of stealing ;

the thief must be a real living man/woman e.g.. :John : Smith ( of John , of the family of Smith )

the good stolen must be  a real commodity, e.g.  gold . silver , livestock 

the victim must be a real living man /woman . , once again like above , and must prove he/she owns the good .

 

let's use the example of the app ,

 

 

Who downloaded the app ?

cannot be a real living man/woman , as a real man or woman cannot go into a computer and buy such things .

so an account had to be created using your fiction entity JOHN SMITH , this is not you as defined in the :Quran.

It is your company .

and this company called JOHN SMITH , is not owned by you , because when it was registered with the STATE's birth registry , it became their property .

But the name is leased to you with their rules and conditions . like this SC account.

The commodity is not real , and the owner does not own it , as per :Islamic definitions , as he cannot prove his ownership , as a real man /woman cannot own something in the cyberspace .

And who are the victims ? , other corporations and non-living entities .

the OP mentioned $3000, what is $3000 ?

It has no valve and it's not money as defined in the :Quran,therefore it is not stealing as stated in the :Quran.

And lastly where are the real living witnesses that has witnessed the crime ?

However , you as a fiction entity has entered into contracts with other parties .

this is covered under :Islamic laws of business contracts and exchange.

you must honour it provided there is no conditions that go against :Islam.

When you break a business agreement , the laws of dealing with this is not the same as stealing in the :Quran.

eg. if you steal , and there are witnesses , the penalty is severe  .

if you break a business contract than the punishment is almost negligible , and is what you have agreed upon as compensation.

 

The laws of the corporate STATE , is not the same as the laws of the :Quran.

one deals with dead people , and the other the living .

 

I hoped I have further clarified my position.

with brotherly love and :Duas to you and to your parents .

 

ws

Edited by :Sami II

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My dear baby brother who is grasshopper in the making , ( my kids are older than you btw) .

Let me clarify what I said as you seem to go around SC putting "words in people's mouths ".

 

Under :Islamic definition of stealing ;

the thief must be a real living man/woman e.g.. :John : Smith ( of John , of the family of Smith )

the good stolen must be  a real commodity, e.g.  gold . silver , livestock 

the victim must be a real living man /woman . , once again like above , and must prove he/she owns the good .

 

let's use the example of the app ,

 

 

Who downloaded the app ?

cannot be a real living man/woman , as a real man or woman cannot go into a computer and buy such things .

so an account had to be created using your fiction entity JOHN SMITH , this is not you as defined in the :Quran.

It is your company .

and this company called JOHN SMITH , is not owned by you , because when it was registered with the STATE's birth registry , it became their property .

But the name is leased to you with their rules and conditions . like this SC account.

The commodity is not real , and the owner does not own it , as per :Islamic definitions , as he cannot prove his ownership , as a real man /woman cannot own something in the cyberspace .

And who are the victims ? , other corporations and non-living entities .

the OP mentioned $3000, what is $3000 ?

It has no valve and it's not money as defined in the :Quran,therefore it is not stealing as stated in the :Quran.

And lastly where are the real living witnesses that has witnessed the crime ?

However , you as a fiction entity has entered into contracts with other parties .

this is covered under :Islamic laws of business contracts and exchange.

you must honour it provided there is no conditions that go against :Islam.

When you break a business agreement , the laws of dealing with this is not the same as stealing in the :Quran.

eg. if you steal , and there are witnesses , the penalty is severe  .

if you break a business contract than the punishment is almost negligible , and is what you have agreed upon as compensation.

 

The laws of the corporate STATE , is not the same as the laws of the :Quran.

one deals with dead people , and the other the living .

 

I hoped I have further clarified my position.

with brotherly love and :Duas to you and to your parents .

 

ws

I never said that that is not true. It's something I didn't think about that actually does make sense. 

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so if someone hack into your bank account and emptied it all it's not stealing.

 

very nice definition, i wonder where did you get it from?!

how can a living being enter cyber space and take something that's not there ?

where are the living witnesses ?

and what did he steal ?

Money or just digits ?

as there's  no money is existence than , it must be some digits on a screen .

and if he did steal them where are they now?

in another account held by a bank .

did you know any money held by the bank belongs to the bank and not you , though it's in your name .

So who's stealing what ?

the fiat money that is also used does not belong to you therefore , how can it be stolen if it's not yours.

( did you know in Australia it is illegal for an individual to carry $250 k + in cash with him/her, even though it is legally acquired and belong to him/her , because it's not his/her at the end of the day  )

Br omer2708, has got it right so far , as we are discussing this from an :Islamic perspective .

Edited by :Sami II

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how can a living being enter cyber space and take something that's not there ?

where are the living witnesses ?

and what did he steal ?

Money or just digits ?

as there's  no money is existence than , it must be some digits on a screen .

and if he did steal them where are they now?

in another account held by a bank .

did you know any money held by the bank belongs to the bank and not you , though it's in your name .

So who's stealing what ?

the fiat money that is also used does not belong to you therefore , how can it be stolen if it's not yours.

( did you know in Australia it is illegal for an individual to carry $250 k + in cash with him/her, even though it is legally acquired and belong to him/her , because it's not his/her at the end of the day  )

Br omer2708, has got it right so far , as we are discussing this from an :Islamic perspective .

 

you REALLY think that if somebody change the " DIGITS" for the balance of your bank account to 000,00 hasn't stolen you any thing?

 

and do you REALLY believe when you put your money in your bank account. the bank OWNs it ?

 

if so would be so kind and post just the " DIGITS" of your bank account number and the "DIGITS" of the password and all any "DIGITS" which related to your account !! :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:

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(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

I want to be an app developer and I'd be pissed if someone stole my app... Although I wouldn't blame them... The corporate world is the biggest thief itself. And successful devs usually make enough anyway.

 

why-i-dont-feel-bad-about-downloading-mu

 

(wasalam)

Edited by Grief

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dont listen to anyone who tells u it is okay

it is stealing and unless you want to mess with God's laws and get sent to hell for it, then if i were u id delete these apps and seek forgiveness

stealing is a major sin, and major sins lead to hell permanently

dont sacrifice your heaven for something so benign and pathetic 

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people seem to take their religion lightly

and God's laws lightly, and you ridicule God's laws

no wonder so many of you have so many problems

you break God's laws and you are instantly put in hell

God is not a joke and our religion is not a joke, but seem so many of you have taken the "easy" road and used justification for your sins

if you get punished for it in this world or the next, no matter what justification you take and no matter how "petty" the crime seems , dont complain later on 

"ya sahibe zaman why cant i see you?"

"oh God why dont you respond to me?"

"why is life so difficult for me"

"why do i have so many problems"

this is exactly why you have so many problems , because you take your religion lightly with petty justifications

one sin is enough to get you into hell, and clearly with the justification some of you make here you probably deserve it , serves you right, for taking God's law as a joke 

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Why doesn't Islam enter the technology life?

 

Ofcourse its stealing...If I'm selling you something in a supermarket and you took it for free, is it permissible? Now why wouldn't it be  a problem if online??

 

Think about it logically..


apps are so over priced,, 

Oh really???

You know what a Rolls Royce is over priced, how about I just steal one?

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you REALLY think that if somebody change the " DIGITS" for the balance of your bank account to 000,00 hasn't stolen you any thing?

 

and do you REALLY believe when you put your money in your bank account. the bank OWNs it ?

 

if so would be so kind and post just the " DIGITS" of your bank account number and the "DIGITS" of the password and all any "DIGITS" which related to your account !! :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:

it's not what I think matters here as we are discussing laws of stealing from an :Islamic perspective .

You like most people on this planet seems to confuse laws of the country to laws of :Allah swt .

they are two different laws that govern two different entities ,

the laws of the country is governed by admiralty law , or the law of the sea .

this law deals with business and trade .

it deals with dead entities like companies .

:Quranic law deals mainly  with the living .

I have explained this in detail many times on SC , using very basic language and examples , though most find it very abstract and incomprehensible .

Getting back to the above example , you cannot steal something that is not there .

The digits in a bank does not represent money , you have heard of fractional reserve banking .'

this is the practise all banks use these days in which the real deposits they have is usually 9 times less than the balance they show they have in real cash .

then the fiat money itself has no value which compounds this nothingness exponentially .

as for the bank owing the money , have you heard of the law maxim , "possession is 9/10 ths of the law "

the bank holds the money , and if they decide they don't want to give you your money , they will not , and there are thousand of laws today to support them .

have you heard of the latest news with HSBC , where you are required to explain to them what are you using your money for when you go to withdrawal your money , and if you don't give a good reason , they can refuse to give you your money .

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717

 

As a ex investment banker , I got many calls from desperate businessmen , when Cyprus banks went under , and the government seized all their assets including all deposits .

Some people could not get their money out , and they asked me to assist them in recovering their own money.

there was not much that could be done .

 

As for giving you my bank ac details , I'm happy to as there's nothing there , cause I'm not that stupid to have cash lying around in banks when they'll go belly up soon .

Buy gold , sliver , livestock , land etc , real things and try being a real human being .

 

ws

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