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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Lion of Shia

I Want To Be Shia But I Have Issues

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as salaam alakim!

i keep going from sunni to shia every year it seems because of confusion. No one never answers my questions,

 

point 1)     i all ways here shia and some sunnis say their only against the govt of america and not the people, what does that mean?,

i know theres good and bad in everybody including people, but i have a problem with that issue because many americans are mean,cruel, and hateful towards me and each other,and sometimes resort to bulling(in my case). And also their media and churches slander muslims, i read a shia guide by the late ayatollah koei, and he stresses ,that muslims should not have relations with those who mock, insult or ridicuel islam, or fight it militarly or politicaly.

 

point 2)I read on a marjaras site, that its ok to live  in the west, while many sunnis say its not, theres a verse in the Holy Qu'ran, i dont remember it fully, dealing with that issue which many sunnis say its haram to permanatly live and die in a land full of unbelivers and opressors.

 

point 3) are Imamnargahs(Hussaniyahs) seprate mosques for shia? or do they just do ashura, and lectures there, and pray at regular mosques like sunnis?

 

if you guys can clear these up for me that would be great

salaam!

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as salaam alakim!

i keep going from sunni to shia every year it seems because of confusion. No one never answers my questions,

 

point 1)     i all ways here shia and some sunnis say their only against the govt of america and not the people, what does that mean?,

i know theres good and bad in everybody including people, but i have a problem with that issue because many americans are mean,cruel, and hateful towards me and each other,and sometimes resort to bulling(in my case). And also their media and churches slander muslims, i read a shia guide by the late ayatollah koei, and he stresses ,that muslims should not have relations with those who mock, insult or ridicuel islam, or fight it militarly or politicaly.

 

Ws,

 

Point 1: I did not fully understand your concern with this point you raised. The 'democratic' government in the world today is made by the people elected..

 

point 2)I read on a marjaras site, that its ok to live  in the west, while many sunnis say its not, theres a verse in the Holy Qu'ran, i dont remember it fully, dealing with that issue which many sunnis say its haram to permanatly live and die in a land full of unbelivers and opressors.

 

Utter rubbish. There are many Sunnis including Sunni shaykhs who reside in America and other western countries. The Holy Prophet (s) was sent to the land of pagan Arabs and permanently resided there till he passed away. It is illogical to state that one should not live in the west just because it is.

 

point 3) are Imamnargahs(Hussaniyahs) seprate mosques for shia? or do they just do ashura, and lectures there, and pray at regular mosques like sunnis?

 

Imambargahs are usually where they recite lectures and conduct various activites. People pray there too, however it is not called a masjid.

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Asalam Alykum,

 

Reply to Point 1:
People are good and bad everywhere. Keeping in mind that it was Prophet Adam (A.S.)'s son who committed the first murder. You cannot include every American as being bad. They gave people shelter in their country. Many run free clinics and pet rescue centers. They are simply people. If you think Americans people are actually so bad, go to UAE and those tall buildings that interest you, find out how many people got killed because they took advantage of our poverty and got engineers from the west with less qualifications then those who were actually working on the buildings. Iran is a Muslim country, Pakistan, Arab, UAE but are they helping each other? Saudi is working with West so Iran is no threat to Israel and other countries. Seeing all the hypocracy coming from Saudi, I don't even think Americans and Israel are insulting Islam rather our cheif country is saying Habibi Habibi and trading in Dollars.

Reply to Point 2:
Are you telling me that there are people who say that living on such or such land is forbidden :o Really? So Allah created a land for people to live on and these people decide its haram? Ok it takes about 5 - 10 years to obtain British citizenship so we can live and have a family here. In US and Canada Green card is around few years. Do you know you can't get Arab nationality :o you will also be extending visa which they can refuse. Thats not fair is it? In the west we can show people how good Islam is. If there are no Muslims in the west and all day in the tele they show the crazies shouting and killing and burning flags (which they themselves make and then sell and make profit on), then that reasoning is actually haram. Who told you Americans and British etc countries are full of unbelievers and oppressors? How many shias and sunnis die each day in these countries for blasts and government oppression?
Finally my dear brother NO ONE can ever live on earth parmanently so let those scholars who are allocated their permanent abode in earth be. We are doing good living here and showing people that Islam means peace. Yeah, most countries believe in God, be it they are not completely practicing but these countries US, UK, canada etc are Christian counteries. Remember, people of the book? Look it up :)
Further reading: Abu Qatada and Abu Hamza.

Reply to Point 3:
Masjid is where people who don't believe don't come. Imambarghs are open for everybody. Sunni, Shia, anyone, come eat with us, listen to lecture with us, talk with us and pray with us.

See this for more info: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/17419-what-are-the-differences/

Anything else ask. People will always help you.

 

Ma'Salam

Edited by tearsofregret

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point 2)I read on a marjaras site, that its ok to live in the west, while many sunnis say its not, theres a verse in the Holy Qu'ran, i dont remember it fully, dealing with that issue which many sunnis say its haram to permanatly live and die in a land full of unbelivers and opressors.

brother any place is the land of Allah s.w.t where his creation reside. Its just that we realize and understand the negative aspects of the western culture. If one is living and earning a living there and acting on the teachings of Islam . He is a lot better than one who is residing in a muslim state and does not follow the teachings of Islam properly.

 

point 3) are Imamnargahs(Hussaniyahs) seprate mosques for shia? or do they just do ashura, and lectures there, and pray at regular mosques like sunnis?

brother, Imambargahs are not separate mosques but a place for conducting majalis and religious lectures. Masjid / Mosque is separate and specific where the daily wajib prayers take place. However majalis / lectures may also be conducted in the mosque in other than the prayer times. Thus we do not mix up . In most of places imambargahs are made adjacent to mosques so that its easy to go and conduct majalis. Mosque is in its true essence a mosque where Allah's worship take place. Please feel free to post other questions. kind regards ali. Try the suggestions below or type a new query above.

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as salaam alakim!

i keep going from sunni to shia every year it seems because of confusion. No one never answers my questions,

 

point 1)     i all ways here shia and some sunnis say their only against the govt of america and not the people, what does that mean?,

i know theres good and bad in everybody including people, but i have a problem with that issue because many americans are mean,cruel, and hateful towards me and each other,and sometimes resort to bulling(in my case). And also their media and churches slander muslims, i read a shia guide by the late ayatollah koei, and he stresses ,that muslims should not have relations with those who mock, insult or ridicuel islam, or fight it militarly or politicaly.

 

point 2)I read on a marjaras site, that its ok to live  in the west, while many sunnis say its not, theres a verse in the Holy Qu'ran, i dont remember it fully, dealing with that issue which many sunnis say its haram to permanatly live and die in a land full of unbelivers and opressors.

 

point 3) are Imamnargahs(Hussaniyahs) seprate mosques for shia? or do they just do ashura, and lectures there, and pray at regular mosques like sunnis?

 

if you guys can clear these up for me that would be great

salaam!

 

Point 1: The U.S Government and the American people are two seperate things. If you're not extremely wealthy, you have very little say in what the U.S. government does, even if you live in America. The U.S. government is controlled by a small group of special interest groups, the oil companies, defense contractors, insurance, banks, pharmaceutical companies, high tech companies, and foreign interest groups, the most powerful one by far being Israel. They are the ones who drag the U.S from war to war and conflict to conflict so that they can make more money and in the case of Israel expand their territory. Most of the world, not just the muslim world, suffer the effects of these conflicts. This is the evil part of the U.S. government, and it is very evil. The average American person has nothing to do with this, though, and American people are like any other group of people, there are good and bad ones and everything in between. 

 

Point 2. Yes, they say it is o.k. to live in the West as long as you can do so without compromising your religion and Islamic values. I don't know the position of Sunni ulema on this. 

 

Point 3. Hussainiyahs are not masjids, i.e. you don't have to take off your shoes when you go inside. They are gathering or meeting places. Anyone is welcome, so long as they are resepctful and do not abuse or harm anyone. Shia also have masjids, which are again open to everyone. Masjids belong to Allah(s.w.a) and noone can stop another muslims from going into the masjid. The masjid that I go to, Sunni and Shia both pray together although a Shia alim leads to salat. 

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(salam)

 

I'll only comment on Point 1: We act better than our own gov't. Much better. I'll use this example. You know what crimes have been committed since 9-11 by that worthless, Washington white-trash...even against their own population (NSA, etc.) BUT, except for one nut in Texas and one in South Carolina who each killed a Sikh that day, the American people did about nothing that day. Yes, there was a massed gathering in some place near Chicago, but the police handled those teenagers. It was only later when the evilgelicals and the Bush-gang got going that there was anything. Look what happened in NYC that day: some Jewesses and a few Christian women put on hijabs and walked around the city and if anyone said anything they got-into-their-face. The local police departments sent an officer to their local mosques to prevent anything that might have occurred. It was like that every where --except at Bush-gang HQ.

 

So you see, any fault "we the people" have is in the __ :shaytan:___s that we allow to get elected.

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as salaam alakim!

i keep going from sunni to shia every year it seems because of confusion. No one never answers my questions,

 

point 1)     i all ways here shia and some sunnis say their only against the govt of america and not the people, what does that mean?,

i know theres good and bad in everybody including people, but i have a problem with that issue because many americans are mean,cruel, and hateful towards me and each other,and sometimes resort to bulling(in my case). And also their media and churches slander muslims, i read a shia guide by the late ayatollah koei, and he stresses ,that muslims should not have relations with those who mock, insult or ridicuel islam, or fight it militarly or politicaly.

 

point 2)I read on a marjaras site, that its ok to live  in the west, while many sunnis say its not, theres a verse in the Holy Qu'ran, i dont remember it fully, dealing with that issue which many sunnis say its haram to permanatly live and die in a land full of unbelivers and opressors.

 

point 3) are Imamnargahs(Hussaniyahs) seprate mosques for shia? or do they just do ashura, and lectures there, and pray at regular mosques like sunnis?

 

if you guys can clear these up for me that would be great

salaam!

So these are reasons from going back and forth from Sunni to Shia?

Those aren't valid reasons to become Shia if you are a Sunni.

 

If you are not a troll, then I feel bad for you

Edited by John Al-Ameli

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Point 1: The U.S Government and the American people are two seperate things. If you're not extremely wealthy, you have very little say in what the U.S. government does, even if you live in America. The U.S. government is controlled by a small group of special interest groups, the oil companies, defense contractors, insurance, banks, pharmaceutical companies, high tech companies, and foreign interest groups, the most powerful one by far being Israel. They are the ones who drag the U.S from war to war and conflict to conflict so that they can make more money and in the case of Israel expand their territory. Most of the world, not just the muslim world, suffer the effects of these conflicts. This is the evil part of the U.S. government, and it is very evil. The average American person has nothing to do with this, though, and American people are like any other group of people, there are good and bad ones and everything in between. 

 

Point 2. Yes, they say it is o.k. to live in the West as long as you can do so without compromising your religion and Islamic values. I don't know the position of Sunni ulema on this. 

 

Point 3. Hussainiyahs are not masjids, i.e. you don't have to take off your shoes when you go inside. They are gathering or meeting places. Anyone is welcome, so long as they are resepctful and do not abuse or harm anyone. Shia also have masjids, which are again open to everyone. Masjids belong to Allah(s.w.a) and noone can stop another muslims from going into the masjid. The masjid that I go to, Sunni and Shia both pray together although a Shia alim leads to salat. 

thanks for clearing some of point 1 and 3 up,im glad that you recognize theres good and bad among the american people, i dont dis like them for who they are, its what they stand for,the hate culture and what they do!!By the way can you give me some lengths to learn more about shia islam,im leaning towards it but still need some more thought

So these are reasons from going back and forth from Sunni to Shia?

Those aren't valid reasons to become Shia if you are a Sunni.

 

If you are not a troll, then I feel bad for you

those arent the only reasons,how could i be a troll,i was asking a simple question,this troll [Edited Out] is getting old,and so is this fourm infiltration

Asalam Alykum,

 

Reply to Point 1:

People are good and bad everywhere. Keeping in mind that it was Prophet Adam (A.S.)'s son who committed the first murder. You cannot include every American as being bad. They gave people shelter in their country. Many run free clinics and pet rescue centers. They are simply people. If you think Americans people are actually so bad, go to UAE and those tall buildings that interest you, find out how many people got killed because they took advantage of our poverty and got engineers from the west with less qualifications then those who were actually working on the buildings. Iran is a Muslim country, Pakistan, Arab, UAE but are they helping each other? Saudi is working with West so Iran is no threat to Israel and other countries. Seeing all the hypocracy coming from Saudi, I don't even think Americans and Israel are insulting Islam rather our cheif country is saying Habibi Habibi and trading in Dollars.

Reply to Point 2:

Are you telling me that there are people who say that living on such or such land is forbidden :o Really? So Allah created a land for people to live on and these people decide its haram? Ok it takes about 5 - 10 years to obtain British citizenship so we can live and have a family here. In US and Canada Green card is around few years. Do you know you can't get Arab nationality :o you will also be extending visa which they can refuse. Thats not fair is it? In the west we can show people how good Islam is. If there are no Muslims in the west and all day in the tele they show the crazies shouting and killing and burning flags (which they themselves make and then sell and make profit on), then that reasoning is actually haram. Who told you Americans and British etc countries are full of unbelievers and oppressors? How many shias and sunnis die each day in these countries for blasts and government oppression?

Finally my dear brother NO ONE can ever live on earth parmanently so let those scholars who are allocated their permanent abode in earth be. We are doing good living here and showing people that Islam means peace. Yeah, most countries believe in God, be it they are not completely practicing but these countries US, UK, canada etc are Christian counteries. Remember, people of the book? Look it up :)

Further reading: Abu Qatada and Abu Hamza.

Reply to Point 3:

Masjid is where people who don't believe don't come. Imambarghs are open for everybody. Sunni, Shia, anyone, come eat with us, listen to lecture with us, talk with us and pray with us.

See this for more info: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/17419-what-are-the-differences/

Anything else ask. People will always help you.

 

Ma'Salam

 

i hear your points,but americans and isrealis are not doing it because of the govt some due to their own racism, and ignorance, No body puts a gun to their head and make them hate they do it on their own,

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i hear your points,but americans and isrealis are not doing it because of the govt some due to their own racism, and ignorance, No body puts a gun to their head and make them hate they do it on their own,

I don't hate anyone. You will find good and bad people everywhere. These people who are bullying you are not normal. Have you reported them? If there is nothing you can do to make them stop, can you stay away from them?

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I don't hate anyone. You will find good and bad people everywhere. These people who are bullying you are not normal. Have you reported them? If there is nothing you can do to make them stop, can you stay away from them?

 

im sorry if i genralized,your right about good/bad every where that was my point. I dont hate any one either but we must hate for the sake of Allah and his deen! And also hate the enemies of ahulbayat which includes certain non muslims.!

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Asalam Alykum,

 

Do you know you can't get Arab nationality :o you will also be extending visa which they can refuse.

You are right, you can't get Arab nationality. Why? Because it's an ethnicity, not a political or state designation. However it is possible to gain nationality of an Arab country through naturalisation - in Yemen, I believe it is 5 years, in Jordan about ten and in Oman, it was 20, but may have changed now to ten. As for the others, citizenship can be conferred after a petition to the Govt (usually awarded through Royal Decree). In other words, check your facts.

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Asalam Alykum,

 

Yes, hence I said Arab nationality, i.e. citizenship. Not all Arab countries are like that. In contrast, most countries in the west are far more welcoming. The bottom line is, things are easier here than other countries and this does not mean that west is bad. All over EU there is a minimum wage system but that isn't the case across Arab countries. I have friends who are software developers etc and they ended up going there and working all their lives and not becoming nationals and getting jobs which are very very less paid. When I go to Bayt.com, there is ethnic division. That shouldn't exist. I never seen a job in the west that requires on one heritage. I have family in couple of Arab countries and they have been there in really good positions and they still can't get citizenship. I am not going to sit there and read the entire legislative policies of every Arab country. What I know is from knowledge of family and friends who are stuck there. If you are willing to fight cases let me know :D. expatforum would love it as well. Also why do some of Arab countries take the passports when they employ someone? In west this isn't a practice. I had family visit me and they were like, do you have your car documentation etc in the car? I said no I lost my driving license, can't find it but when I have £20 to spare I will reorder it. They were horrified. When they were there, they got arrest for driving without documentation since it was at home and weren't allowed a phone call. After a search the rest of the family found that poor member. Its not haram to drive without documentation within the car. Here its ok they give you 5 days to get the paperwork across.

 

By the way, west is a direction and some countries are within North, South, East or West (or in combination) to each other. That does not mean they are referred to when we talk about the west. Similarly I said Arab so don't be offended. I don't hate the people. I am paying to learn the language and the culture. I am just telling a guy not to hate people for the sake of hating and that there are good here which is comparatively better to their counter part in the Arab world. Additionally, I have a British passport and I spend my whole life here. Its a Christian country but Muslims have more freedom here than in most countries to express their beliefs and opinions. 

 

Ma'Salam.

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