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In the Name of God بسم الله

Advice Needed From Older Generation

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  • Advanced Member
Posted

I am hesitant to write on this forum about such matters as i know the average of you here are young or still unmarried. But for the few who are married and the older generation i have a question please.

If you are having marriage difficulties and you are unhappy about your marriage for a number of reasons and you see no real change whats the best possible solution. Do you think its best to get someone else involved (parents, either his or hers?), or there is also a muslim couples counseller but reluctant to see them as they are too integrated within the community. Or best to try and keep dealing with it between yourselves and pray to Allah that you can both reach some sort of compromise?

Posted

Many of the people that live in Sydney, Australia, if they have no luck finding a partner they usually go to Iraq or Lebanon to find one. And than take them to Australia.

Also a question to everyone, is it haram not to get married? I am 15 and I don't think of marriage unless the topic comes up, and I kinda like asking questions on it, even if they are wierd like the question I asked.

  • Veteran Member
Posted

Parents and siblings will solve nothing. You can only pray. Think of it as a painful cancer eating away at the mountain ranges of your sins. Its good to have. Try not to think about it, don't let it get to you. Assess the situation and how your spouse is ruining what things or the matters requiring mutual interaction then start solving them in a way that the spouse input, existence or a lack thereof does not affect you. Then carry on happily. Thats my solution. And don't forget to pray. If nothing else you can complain about these going unanswered in the afterlife. But seriously though, I see this thing as God's way of compensating for your sins without ordaining punishment to you in the next life, which He saves and improves for you with such hardships in this phase of life, this world. The afterlife is what matters. This life is popcorns smeared under the feet of people, and the spouse is one such popcorn. You'll have infinite number of friends to choose from if you make it to the next life, and all the damaged people won't be among those people. I keep that in mind.

  • Moderators
Posted

Darth Vader, are you married? Have you ever been?

@OP: In some situations getting an outside person involved is appropriate, but it is almost never beneficial to involve another family member from the side of the one complaining. I don't know enough about your situation to speak anything other than generalizations, but in many cases all that is required is for one spouse to change their actions and attitudes, to give up their pride and make it their mission to love their spouse. In other cases a good heart to heart talk will work wonders. If both of these measures have been attempted to no avail, it might be time to bring in a mediator, preferably one that both spouses respect and who keeps private matters private. If a religious counselor isn't available, secular marriage counseling should be considered.

And always pray. Of course.

  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)

MummyZ:  As the Quran reveals, it you cannot leave peacefully together, then divorce in peace. My first wife and I did.

 

Truthfully, we did not even yell at each other.

Edited by hasanhh
  • Veteran Member
Posted

Yes, even I could not elude the wrath of married life. I know for certain that it was never meant to be a perfect thing. Third party will always either take advantage of the situation, prove ignorant and useless or prove powerless to help. Divorce is for those who either don't have or don't love their children.

 

So...

 

That is why I offer the duct tape and glue alternative mentioned above along with increased tolerance and patience. Look, we have to control ourselves all our lives as believers. We have to bear and put up with so many unfair things until death. Most prayers go unanswered. We can have faulty parents, bad siblings, unfaithful friends, failed experiments, lost limbs, diseases, and so much more. So if we're already carrying so much weight, whats a faulty spouse added to the baggage?

  • Advanced Member
Posted

Although, I'm not married nor have ever been, I hope you (OP) dont mind me contributing to ur thread. But I just want to say that involving/including ur parents or third party actors can only be a "recipe for disaster" most of the time. I was just gonna write this on another topic posted, I was recently watching a tv program where an Imam takes calls from people who are having marital problems. I watched the entire show, and in about 99% of the callers and their issues, I kept hearing the same thing over & over again: That third party actors (i.e. in-laws) were interfering in their marital lives. And this "interfering" was the very cause of the callers' divorce cases. 

 

Fi aman Allah, & I wish you the best of luck in solving ur problem.

 

Ma'salama

  • Advanced Member
Posted

Thank you all for your replies,

Sayed murtadah im not sure what to reply to that. Its highly recommened that you do get married but you say you are only 15 so you are still young and have plenty of time to change your mind.

Darth Vader i honestly try to think like that most of the time. That this is all a test and whatever comes our way is testing our faith, but honestly why live a miserable life? Im not saying have everything you want in life but like you say in your second post this life already throws at you many misfortunes why not change the ones you are able to change.

Notme funnily enough my parents will actually stick up for him, some things have already been mentioned and they always tell me to work harder try more, they are not the sort who will back me up. I know his parents will be able to talk to him but i find it hard to tell them such things. I have tried both measures but the main problem is he wants me to be someone i am not, i cannot change myself to the way he wants. I will give an example he is very much a person who cares about what people think, he wants me to be the type of person who is so integrated in our community with all ages. But i have always found it difficult to talk with elders as i find i have nothing to say really and tend to stick to my group of friends.

Hasanhh i am trying to leave divorce as a very last resort, i have a son which means i have to put his happiness before mine.

Darth vader the muslim couple who do councilling managed to sort out his (my husbands) sister and her husbands problems, they were on the brink of divorce. Now they have just had their second child and seems all is well. They are a trusted couple which we know well.

Mlle no i dont mind at all, like i said above my parents will push me to try harder and i honestly thank Allah for my inlaws they are great and i know they will not interfere in a bad way but its hard to bring up a topic about their own son.

For now i will keep on praying, but i dont know how much more i can keep quiet and try to put more effort in when its all one sided.

  • Moderators
Posted

Was the marriage arranged, or you married without much time to get to know each other? I don't know his side of the story, but if he really does expect you to change your personality entirely he is being unreasonable. Have you talked with him about how you feel, at a time when you are both calm and relaxed.

  • Advanced Member
Posted

I will try to give as much detail without giving too much private information. So i hope this helps. I live in the UK, we are both iraqies. We are both in our late 20s with 2 years difference. We have been married for 4 years. But we are very different people. He likes to act alot older then his age. His life revolves around work, politics and our local iraqi community. I am the youngest out of 5 so i have always been treated as the 'baby' of the family. To him i am immature because i do not act like a grown woman within the community. Its hard to explain but the way he wants me to be is very difficult for me because its not something i am used to.

This has also caused problems because he thinks i do not interact well with his parents. I just find that i have nothing to really say to them. I can talk to his siblings when they are around but most of the time we go to my inlaws its just his parents at home and they talk about topics which i have nothing to include. Because of this he doesnt like going to my families house often which means that i go to stay over for a few days at a time to see them. I do not live close to my family which means i am always alone with my son. I have noone to really talk to except him but he does not seem to have time for us. And this also means that he never helps out with our son, i do everything for my son and while i do not mind this sometimes i do feel really tired and need a break which i never get.

I know the problems are not major, he does what he has to and provides us with a roof over our heads and food on the table. But i just feel is that all his role as a husband is? We have no sort of communication, no conversations, no real interaction at all.

Even when we go out or spend some time together we are like strangers.

I have told him all this before and i have tried my best to do what he wants. But if i ever say no about anything we end up not talking for ages (from one week upto three weeks) we literally do not talk at all to each other. This means that we are most of the time not even talking to each other and when i try to resolve the problem he always makes me feel like it was my fault.

I really want to have a second baby but i do not feel that i should bring another child into this before sorting out some sort of compromise.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and try to help. I just dont know what the best course of action is when nothing seems to be changing. This has been the same ever since we got married.

  • Veteran Member
Posted

Again, I'm one of the "teeny kids who have no practical experience about marriage" but I think that if, as you've described, your in-laws are great people and their input will be constructive, then I think you need to get over the "this is awkward" phase (which is what I am assuming makes it hard for you to bring up the issue with them) and go and talk to them. Sure, it takes a bit of courage but, as you and Darth have said, life is full of problems and you should try to remove those you can. Now, if you had a money problem, that would take some effort wouldn't it? If you were failing exams, you'd have to study harder, yes? So, just as any other problem, if you really want to solve this one, the path is OBVIOUSLY not going to be all roses but you just need to do the hard stuff or regret your whole life for not summoning the courage to do what you know is right.

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

Notme yes it was arranged in the sort of way iraqies do it. A family friend who knew both families introduced us. They asked for hand in marriage. Parents asked about him and his family. They are very good people which makes me believe that i have to try harder because i know there are alot of men alot worse then he is. We had no contact before akid stage and then the wedding was about 4 months later. Yes i did not know him well but honestly he is the type of person if i had got to know him for a year he would be an angel (he is very well loved by everyone) the way he is to people, as he cares very much about what people think about him. But once i got to live with him i realised that while he may come across as perfect outside once he got home he was too tired to even try at home.

Yes i have tried talking many times and i have told him everything which i believe to be a problem. But he doesnt see it my way and thinks that i exaggerate and just want attention. Everything i say to him he will twist it around to make me feel like i am in the wrong and that its all my fault.

Edited by MummyZ
  • Moderators
Posted

Those problems are very common. You can get through it.

As for spending too much time alone with your child, that happens to young mothers all the time. The best thing to do is meet up with other mothers of young children. You will feel less lonely and dependent on your husband for social interaction.

At the same time, try to learn more about politics, economics, or whatever "grown up stuff" he and his family like to talk about. Expanding your horizons is not the same as changing who you are, and inshallah he will appreciate your efforts.

Don't give up. Communication takes time to master.

  • Advanced Member
Posted

Khadim uz zahra i truely appreciate what you are saying but he thinks that noone should know about our marriage problems. I dont think he will be too happy if i went and told his parents. But i do agree that i should try and see if they can have a positive influence on him. His mother already tells him off about never being home. Even though i have to say it hasnt made a difference.

  • Veteran Member
Posted

Was the marriage arranged, or you married without much time to get to know each other? I don't know his side of the story, but if he really does expect you to change your personality entirely he is being unreasonable. Have you talked with him about how you feel, at a time when you are both calm and relaxed.

 

In truth, that is actually a big part of the mentality in the East. You regularly hear uncles saying "the man has to mould the wife after marriage". Translation: not only is it alright for you to wish your wife to change, it's even your duty.

 

Now, it really differs from case to case and a part of why marriage is so important in Islam is so that each of us can encourage the other to change and move closer to God (hence why Imam Ali said, when he was asked by the Prophet about how he found Lady Fatima (peace be upon her), he said she was the best as she encouraged him to get closer to Allah) so change is certainly part of the equation and sometimes the feelings of the husband may be just (he has a reputation to maintain in society and if, as the sister is saying, he views her as immature, then he might feel that he needs to change her) so it all depends on the circumstances.

 

As for the sister, I know it's hard for you to change but do you think that his feelings that you are acting immature in the society have some truth to them? If so, maybe along with talking to both him and his parents and discussing his trying to change his expectations of you - being sort of an introvert, I totally get what you mean by it being hard to talk to your in-laws and also appreciate how hard it is to change in this way - as it is not very easy for people to change prominent parts of their personality, maybe you should also work toward making yourself a bit more "mature" in the way he defines mature.

 

Basically, go to his parents and try discussing the problem, emphasising that you understand what he wishes of you and will try to change yourself but also that he needs to be more accommodating as well and that for the marriage to be effective, change has to go both ways, instead of being unilateral.

  • Advanced Member
Posted

Notme i do believe that my main problem is that i depend on him too much. But its hard to try have my own life when i have a young child and most people i know even young mothers are working or still at university. I do go out sometimes and meet up with friends but sometimes the closest person to you should be your husband who is too busy living his own life. I have tried my luck at getting a job but jobs these days are hard to get especially that i have no real experience as i never worked after i graduated.

I have told him i will try harder but i feel like i am the only one putting in the effort as i see no change from him. Communication with him is such a hard thing but i will keep trying and inshAllah one day he will realise.

  • Veteran Member
Posted

Khadim uz zahra i truely appreciate what you are saying but he thinks that noone should know about our marriage problems. I dont think he will be too happy if i went and told his parents. But i do agree that i should try and see if they can have a positive influence on him. His mother already tells him off about never being home. Even though i have to say it hasnt made a difference.

 

That's another of the problems with the dominant Eastern culture. While it might actually be very normal for people in the West to see marriage counselors, in the East, even the mere suggestion will be taken as a great insult and an attack on the manliness of the husband.

 

That certainly further complicates the issue and, beyond this, I think I'll stop because I am, after all, "one of the teeny kids who have no practical experience about marriage" and I don't think I can add anything further. Maybe Darth can help you out.

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

Khadim uz zahra i completely understand what you are saying and we do all change as we grow up but he is expecting a transformation over night. It is not something i have been used to and it takes time for me to be able to suddenly become extrovert. I am sure i will eventually become a 'mature' woman in his sense but until then why cant he just accept me for the way i am and appreciate that i am trying. Alhamdulilah islamically we have no problems we are both trying our best to do the little we can to become better muslims.

Thats the thing he does not see that he has to change in any way. He thinks that once i change everything will sort out because i am the problem and causing the problem. I have said to him directly do you not think you need to change some things as well and he gives the simple answer of no.

The thing is his sister went to this counsellor so it might not be as a big deal but he is the type of person who doesnt like talking about his private affairs to anyone, including me his own wife. He is a very closed off person.

Actually you have given some great advice and i did not mean to offend anyone when i asked from the older generation i just thought that they may be better experienced thats all. Thank you.

Edited by MummyZ
  • Veteran Member
Posted

Actually you have given some great advice and i did not mean to offend anyone when i asked from the older generation i just thought that they may be better experienced thats all. Thank you.

 

Don't worry. I wasn't, in the least bit, offended. I said that, in the first instance, more as a declaration so that you may know I'm not an expert on the issue and maybe not take me seriously as, say, Vader who is actually married, and, in the second instance, because I truly couldn't contribute any more because, well, marriage issues are very complex and I didn't really know what else I could say.

  • Veteran Member
Posted

Hey Mummyz, what if you are not allowed to speak about marriage with your parents? They do not allow me.

 

Brother, with all due respect, if you seek advice regarding an issue, kindly go to the appropriate forum and create a new thread, rather than asking questions on a thread made by someone else to seek answers themselves and deviating from the original query.

  • Advanced Member
Posted

Thank you very much darth vader, i will bring up the subject with him about the counsellors and see his response. I know that the situation is not that bad we just seem to argue over everything and its not a good relationship for my son to grow up in, also i really want another child.

I have been told i am very much pessimistic and i do try to be more optimistic but its something else i find quite hard. But like you say it is all part of life and in the bigger picture these small things are just testing my faith. Thank you for your optisim inshAllah things will turn to the better soon.

Thank you khadim uz zahra for your advice and im glad you were not offended.

Sayed murtadah i am not sure how best you can resolve your problem but like khadim said this is going off topic. I am sure there have been threads more related to your problem which prehaps can help you with your situation or else create your own topic and inshAllah someone has good advice for you.

  • Veteran Member
Posted

If he doesn't want his parents to know of your marital problems, I doubt he'd be comfortable with going to, and sharing your problems with, a counselor. I think a good way to go about it would be to follow the example of Imams Hassan and Hussain (peace be upon them both)'s example where they indirectly corrected that old man who wasn't doing Wudhu properly. So, maybe, subtly message him, like bring Hadith about marriage, or the duties of the husband, or emphasising the change aspect of marriage to his attention, without directly doing so? If, as you say, he is seen as a nice guy in the wider community, maybe he does have true sincerity about religion and maybe if you didn't tell him yourself, which might be seen as "nagging" but, instead, he came about the right advice seemingly on his own, he just might have an epiphany and set his way straight?

  • Moderators
Posted (edited)

salam sis

who is more important for you ?

your son or your husband ?

ws

That seems an unfair question to me.

Khadim uz Zahra gives brilliant advice about subtly leading him to reach his own conclusions. Some men will never listen to a woman even when she is right and they are wrong. But if he is sincere (which it seems he is) he will change his ways if he discovers them to be wrong.

Edited by notme
Posted

Salam sami, i dont even have to think about your question, most definitely my son.

that is your problem , your husband should be No.1 and only .

the best thing for your son is to see that his father is loved and treated as no.1 and king in the family by his mother 

if you change this , than your husband will talk to you and treat you as you like 

you will be his queen .

and your marriage will stay strong and good 

which will then benefit your son and make him a good man to repeat the good to his family one day :Inshallah 

my :Duas are with you .

ws

  • Advanced Member
Posted

Salam!

 

First of all you should love yourself and be happy with your live. And as a Mother its only natural to put ones Child first. Husbands are importend too and beeing at least comfortable with him if not in love. But also it is important to have an out of Home commiunity like friends or another activity like sport or even Mother and Toddler Group if not a Part Time Job to get you out of the House. If your Husband is a good Person and you want to make the marrige work than you will have to find something to do besides caring for your Son and beeing stuck at home waiting for him to come Home. $ Years ist not long but also not to short there must be somethings wich will be of interest to both of you so you can talk. Maybe not at Home. Why not try to go for a walk in the evening, my Husband does find it easier to talk while beeing outside the House. At Home you have the Tele on and most of the Time one of you will be busy with either Houswork or Kid but if you go outside there is nothing to distract you from each other.

I hope you can work it out cause a divorce should be the last resort.

You will have to make that decision yourself but just in case you are staying married because of Children is not right, cause every Child does feel if theire Parents are not happy and will not be happy with that.

 

May Allah swt be with you and your family.

 

ws Salima

  • Advanced Member
Posted

Khadim you have done it again, given great advice thank you. I will try your method but he doesnt tend to read alot so it will have to be short quotes here and there.

Notme that is true some men will not listen to a woman no matter what she is saying.

Sami as a mother i can not help my feelings. My son comes before myself even. A son is a part of my heart which is walking around on earth. I do want to show him that i love his father as its important for him to learn this but we usually are arguing or not talking at all. This is my issue. I do not want divorce as he is a good man. But this relationship is unhealthy for my child to grow up in. This is what he will learn about being grown up. Which is why i am here asking for advice.

Salima thank you for your advice, yes i agree i need my own life and it cannot be based all on my husband and child but i am far from family, my friends all work or are at university. I have been unsuccesful at getting my own job, this makes it hard for me to be away from my child and husband. My child is still not at school so i cannot just leave him and go out.

Abu hadi i know that there is two sides to every story and yes you need to hear the other side to be able to help more, but my dear husband is such a private person he does not discuss anything with me let alone write for strangers on a website. If i knew what my husband thought and what he disliked i would be able to change some things to make him happy. But he just expects things from me without saying. I have told him he is very closed off and that i need to know what he is thinking sometimes. His response is thats the way i am, i like to keep my thoughts to myself. This is very frustrating when trying to resolve a problem because i do not know his take on it. Thank you all the same.

  • Advanced Member
Posted

Salams,

Alhamdulilah I've been a love of Ahlu Bayt a.s. for 30 years and also happen to be a clinical social worker with a lot of experience working with marriage and families.

 

you have to make your own decision but maybe what I have learned and seen over the years will help you to make a good decision.

 

Here's what I learned:

 

1) The best way to make a good marrige is to do prevention and learn about what makes a good marriage, how to do those things and to pick a mate who you have some time to know to see if they also have good relationship skills. Everyone always has the right words when they talk about what they believe marriage should be... all their ideals. But what what after a short while in marriage all too often you see something very different than all the good things they talked about

 

2) never turn it over to other family members. I mean like ask for some support or advice but don't let others get in the middle of it.  Also, don't let the community get involved. I've seen those disasters all toooo many times. And also just because someone is head of a mosque or something like that it doesn't mean they havae any skills in marital and family therapy. If someone needed surgery they wouldn't got to the head of the mosque if they weren't a skilled surgeon. And a knowledgeable surgeon will not do surgery on anyone they know anway.

 

3) I suggest you go to a licensed clinical social worker (i've found that they are more down to earth and practical and not over analytical like some others in the profession). Call them first and talk to them and ask them what their approach is -  how they help couples to learn how to identify the problems, fix them and go ahead in a more workable manner in their lives. Ask them how they deal with spritual issues. And social workers are very familiar in working with various kinds of populations from different religions, countries etc. And if you find one who isn't, they'll tell you and you can look further.

 

4) Anyone who is concerned about their safety should first get to a safe place. And don't announce that you are going to do it. One of the times that women are killed most in marriage is when the man knows she is going to leave...or it happens just after the divorce. Sorry... that is just a very clear trend.

 

5)  Never think that marital problems can be hidden from a child. They know. Even babies can sense the tension in an unhappy marriage. I've worked a lot with them and kids who grow up in  a house where there are chronic marital problems get so messed up in life themselves.  It's like they are growing up in  a battle zone even if the war is silent.

 

6) Rights in marriage in Islam are balanced. Be sure your own perspective here is realistic. I 've worked in communities before and all too often the women is just told to cope and be patient while the male does whatever he wants and is all too often abusive either physically,l verbally or emotionally. Yes, sometimes the woman is abusive too so don't anyone get upset when I say this. I'm not blaming anyone I'm just telling you what the statistics are ane what experience tells me.

 

7) Abuse of even an animal in islam is forbidden. Don't dish it out and don't take it.

 

8) Know that if you go to see a social work therapist... at least you will either learn to have a good marriage, alhamdulilah and you decide to divorce, you will feel certain that you have made a good decision.

 

Best of luck to you and fi amanni lah

Posted

Khadim you have done it again, given great advice thank you. I will try your method but he doesnt tend to read alot so it will have to be short quotes here and there.

Notme that is true some men will not listen to a woman no matter what she is saying.

Sami as a mother i can not help my feelings. My son comes before myself even. A son is a part of my heart which is walking around on earth. I do want to show him that i love his father as its important for him to learn this but we usually are arguing or not talking at all. This is my issue. I do not want divorce as he is a good man. But this relationship is unhealthy for my child to grow up in. This is what he will learn about being grown up. Which is why i am here asking for advice.

Salima thank you for your advice, yes i agree i need my own life and it cannot be based all on my husband and child but i am far from family, my friends all work or are at university. I have been unsuccesful at getting my own job, this makes it hard for me to be away from my child and husband. My child is still not at school so i cannot just leave him and go out.

Abu hadi i know that there is two sides to every story and yes you need to hear the other side to be able to help more, but my dear husband is such a private person he does not discuss anything with me let alone write for strangers on a website. If i knew what my husband thought and what he disliked i would be able to change some things to make him happy. But he just expects things from me without saying. I have told him he is very closed off and that i need to know what he is thinking sometimes. His response is thats the way i am, i like to keep my thoughts to myself. This is very frustrating when trying to resolve a problem because i do not know his take on it. Thank you all the same.

you are a wife first , so do your duty as a wife , and everything will fall into place .

most women always put their kids first , this is the biggest mistake in a marriage and it is a recipe for failure .

be the wife you should be towards your husband according to our :Deen.

Provided that he is a good man in accordance with our :Deen ( not based on your feelings ) , than if you surrender and submit to him as a wife should than and only than can you be the best mother and maintain a  family.

If you do not , and most these days don't than you will have what everyone has , a broken family and a son that grows to be a man , a husband and a father one day and repeats the same mistakes or worse.

my :Duas are with you and your family .

ws

  • Advanced Member
Posted

Latifa thank you for your prespective. Most of the points are not really applicable in this situation but thank you for your time and effort for writing it all out. As for the muslim couple who work as marriage counsellors are a part of the community however they have done this for many years and they are very trusted. We witnessed their work first hand when my husbands sister was having problems. To be honest since that time i saw them trying to help my sister in law i told my husband it would be good to see them for our own marriage.

Your 5th point is my main concern, i already know the effect of problems on young children (i studied psychology at university) and this is why i need a change, for the sake of my son and any future children. My own happiness is not important in the scheme of things but the effect on children is something which greatly concerns me. Thank you once again

Sami, i am trying my best to do my duties fully. Sometimes i feel my efforts go unnoticed and are unappreciated. But inshAllah things will get better soon and i will keep trying to put more effort. Thank you for your duaas.

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