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Ibn Al-Ja'abi

Where Is The Grave Of Syeda Fatima (As)?

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
السلام عليكم
 
Introduction:
 
The question of where the grave of Fatimah Zahra ('as) is a good question, and most common is the answer that she is buried somewhere in Jannat Al-Baqi', however, what most do not know is that there are two more opinions, which have more backing than the common one, which state she is between the pulpit and grave of the Prophet (saawa), or she was buried in her house and it was expanded into the masjid during the period of umawi expansions. Insha'Allah I will proceed to examine the narrations and statements about this subject, and Insha'Allah explore the different views as to where her grave is. Before reading this, please let the reader note that this is a thread and I would like to hear their view, research, and opinions, and this is an open discussion we all can Insha'Allah benefit from.
 
I shall open this topic with the different opinions as to where the grave of Fatimah Zahra ('as) is, Shaykh Al-Saduq writes in Man La Yahdharahu Al-Faqih volume 2 page 572:
 
اختلفت الروايات في موضع قبر فاطمة سيدة نساء العالمين عليها السلام، فمنهم من روى أنها دفنت في البقيع، ومنهم من روى أنها دفنت بين القبر والمنبر وأن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله إنما قال: ما بين قبري ومنبري روضة من رياض الجنة لان قبرها بين القبر والمنبر، ومنهم من روى أنها دفنت في بيتها فلما زادت بنو أمية في المسجد صارت في المسجد وهذا هو الصحيح عندي
 
"There is difference in the narrations on the topic of the grave of Fatimah - mistress of the women of the worlds - ('as). And from them it is narrated she is buried in Al-Baqi'. And from them it is narrated she is buried between the grave and the minbar (of the Prophet (saawa), and that the Prophet (saawa) had said: 'What is between my grave and my pulpit is a garden from the gardens of heaven, because her grave is between the grave and the pulpit.' And from them, it is narrated that she is buried in her house, and when Banu Umayya expanded the border of the masjid, it [was included] in the masjid, and this is correct to me."
 
Shaykh Al-Tusi says in Tahdhib Al-Ahkam volume 6 page 9:
 
وقد اختلف أصحابنا في موضع قبرها، فقال بعضهم: انها دفنت بالبقيع، وقال بعضهم: انها دفنت بالروضة، وقال بعضهم: انها دفنت في بيتها، فلما زاد بنو أمية لعنهم الله في المسجد صارت من جملة المسجد
 
And it is a difference among our companions on the topic of her (Fatimah Zahra ('as)'s) grave. Some of them say that she is buried in Al-Baqi'. And some of them say she is buried by the garden (between the grave and pulpit). And some of them say that she is buried in her house, and when banu umayyah (may Allah curse them) expanded the border of the masjid, it was made part of the masjid.
 
The first view:
 
The first view is that she was buried in Jannat Al-Baqi', and Shaykh Al-Radhy introduces this view better than I can when he writes:
 
القول الأول من الأقوال الثلاثة أنها مدفونة في البقيع في دار عقيل بن أبي طالب أو بالقرب منها أو مع ابنها الإمام الحسن عليه السلام
 
The first statement from the three statements is that she is buried in Al-Baqi', in the house of 'Aqil ibn Abi Talib, or in proximity to it, or with her son Al-Hasan ('as).

 

This view suggests as can be seen that Fatimah Zahra ('as) was buried in Jannat Al-Baqi', and this is the most common opinion among laymen and scholars today I have seen, that She ('as) is buried with Imam Hasan ('as). However, I have done research for this view and have not come across any narrations, although I found it referred to Manaqib Ibn Shahr Ashub, and Rawdhat Al-Wa'idhin, Insha'Allah if someone has information on this they can bring it to light.

 

The second view:

 

The second view is that she is buried in the garden, which is referring to the space between the grave of the Prophet (saawa) and his pulpit. This is backed up by narrations such as that which follows:

 

حدثنا محمد بن موسى بن المتوكل - رضي الله عنه - قال: حدثنا علي بن الحسين السعد آبادي، عن أحمد بن أبي عبد الله البرقي، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن بعض أصحابنا، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله: ما بين قبري ومنبري روضة من رياض الجنة ومنبري على ترعة من ترع الجنة لان قبر فاطمة صلوات الله عليها بين قبره ومنبره وقبرها روضة من رياض الجنة وإليه ترعة من ترع الجنة

 

[Al-Saduq narrates saying it was] Narrated to us [by] Muhammad ibn Musa ibn Al-Mutawakkil, he said: [it was] Narrated to us [by] 'Ali ibn Al-Hussain Al-Sa'd Al-Abidi, [who learned] from Ahmad ibn Abi 'Abdillah Al-Barqi, [who learned] from his Father, [who learned] from Ibn Abi 'Umayr, [who learned] from some of our companions, [who learned] from Abi 'Abdillah ('as), he said: The Messenger of Allah (saawa) said: What is between by grave and pulpit is a garden from the gardens of paradise, and my pulpit is upon a canal from the canals of paradise, because the grave of Fatimah ('as) is between its grave and its pulpit, and her grave is the garden from the gardens of paradise, and to it [flow] a canal from the canals of paradise.

 

Ma'ani Al-Akhbar page 267. Shaykh Al-Saduq had also quoted a similar hadith in Faqih as I have quoted earlier and will do again now:

 

وأن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله إنما قال: ما بين قبري ومنبري روضة من رياض الجنة لان قبرها بين القبر والمنبر

 

And that the Prophet (saawa) had verily said: What is between my grave and my pulpit is a garden from the gardens of paradise, because her (Fatimah Zahra ('as)'s) grave is between the grave and the pulpit.

 

Man La Yahdharahu Al-Faqih volume 2 page 572

 

The third view:

The third view is that she was buried in her house, and when the umawis expanded the masjid's boundries, her grave became part of the masjid. This is personally my view, and there are numerous traditions for it. I will quote some of them, including a reliable one. It is narrated in Al-Kafi:

 

علي بن محمد وغيره، عن سهل بن زياد، عن أحمد بن محمد بن أبي نصر قال: سألت الرضا عليه السلام عن قبر فاطمة عليها السلام فقال: دفنت في بيتها فلما زادت بنو أمية في المسجد صارت في المسجد

 

[Al-Kulayni narrates that it was reported to him from] 'Ali ibn Muhammad and others, [who learned from] from Sahl ibn Ziyad, [who learned] from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Abi Nasr, he said: I asked Al-Ridha ('as) about the grave of Fatima ('as), so he said: She was buried in her house, and when Banu Umayyah expanded the masjid's border, it [was included] in the masjid.

 

Al-Kafi volume 1 page 461

 

Grading: Dha'if 'Ala Mashhur (Weak upon fame - ie. this chain is weak but this is a famous narration, the weakness here is Sahl ibn Ziyad Al-Amidi)

>Source: Allama Majlisi, Mir'at Al-'Uqul volume 5 page 348

 

Al-Saduq narrated it in a Mursal fashion here:

 

وسئل أبو الحسن الرضا عليه السلام " عن قبر فاطمة عليها السلام فقال: دفنت في بيتها فلما زادت بنو أمية في المسجد صارت في المسجد ".

 

And Abu Al-Hasan Al-Ridha ('as) was asked about the grave of Fatimah ('as), so he said: She was buried in her house, and when Banu Umayyah expanded the masjid's border, it [was included] in the masjid.

 

Man La Yahdharahu Al-Faqih volume 1 page 229

 

He reports similarly in 'Uyun Akhbar Al-Ridha ('as):

 

حدثنا أبي ومحمد بن الحسن بن أحمد الوليد رضي الله عنهما وأحمد بن محمد بن يحيى العطار ومحمد بن علي ماجيلويه ومحمد بن موسى بن المتوكل رضي الله عنهم قالوا: حدثنا محمد بن يحيى العطار وأحمد بن إدريس جميعا سهل بن زياد الآدمي عن أحمد بن محمد بن أبي نصر البزنطي قال: سألت أبا الحسن علي بن موسى الرضا عليه السلام عن قبر فاطمة عليها السلام فقال: دفنت في بيتها فلما زادت بنو أمية في المسجد صارت في المسجد

 

[Al-Saduq narrates that it was] narrated to us [by] my Father, and Muhammad ibn Al-Hasan ibn Ahmad ibn Walid, and Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya Al-'Attar, and Muhammad ibn 'Ali Majilawayh, and Muhammad ibn Musa Al-Mutawakkil, they said: [it] was narrated to us [by] Muhammad ibn Yahya Al-'Attar and Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Idrees collectively [from] Sahl ibn Ziyad Al-Amidi, [who learned] from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Nasr Al-Bazanti, [and] he said: I asked Aba Al-Hasan Al-Ridha ('as) about the grave of Fatimah ('as), so he said: She was buried in her house, and when Banu Umayyah expanded the masjid's border, it [was included] in the masjid.

 

'Uyun Akhbar Al-Ridha ('as) volume 2 page 278

 

Finally it has been reported on a reliable chain in Tahdhib:

 

عنه عن أحمد بن محمد بن أبي نصر قال: سألت أبا الحسن عليه السلام عن قبر فاطمة عليها السلام فقال: دفنت في بيتها فلما زادت بنو أمية في المسجد صارت في المسجد

 

And from him, [who learned] from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Abi Nasr, he said: I asked Aba Al-Hasan Al-Ridha ('as) about the grave of Fatimah ('as), so he said: She was buried in her house, and when Banu Umayyah expanded the masjid's border, it [was included] in the masjid.

 

Tahdhib Al-Ahkam volume 3 page 255

 

Grading: Sahih (authentic/correct)

>Source: Allama Majlisi, Miladh Al-Akhyar volume 5 page 481

 

It should be noted in volume 14 page 368 Shaykh Hurr Al-'Amili made two interesting points. Firstly, the chain above from Tahdhib Al-Ahkam is longer, and the "From him" is Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn Yahya. The second point is that in Al-Faqih it has also been narrated in a non-mursal fashion from Al-Bazanti, however it is not found in Al-Faqih now.

 

Four major scholars who believed in this view:

 

1. Shaykh Kulayni (he has included this in his book, and it is argued that he only included what he believed in into his book Al-Kafi)

2. Shaykh Al-Saduq (refer to Man La Yahdharahu Al-Faqih volume 2 page 572 when after saying the last view of Her ('as) being buried in her house he says: "وهذا هو الصحيح عندي" (And this is correct to me))

3. Shaykh Al-Mufeed (refer to Al-Muqni'ah page 71)

4. Shaykh Al-Tusi (refer to Misbah Al-Mutahajjid page 653)

 

Conclusion:

 

Insha'Allah the reader may make his/her mind up as to where the grave of Syeda Zahra ('as) is based off their own research, and this topic can be discussed in a scholarly manner. And no matter where the grave is, we remember the suffering that Syeda Fatimah Zahra ('as) had gone through during her life before she had to enter her grave. And we pray for the curse of Allah, his angels, and mankind to be upon her oppressors, those who usurped her right, those who assisted in this, and those who killed her.

 

والسلام

Edited by Ibn Al-Ja'abi

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On 1/5/2014 at 3:13 AM, Ibn Al-Ja said:

The first view:

 
The first view is that she was buried in Jannat Al-Baqi', and Shaykh Al-Radhy introduces this view better than I can when he writes:
 
القول الأول من الأقوال الثلاثة أنها مدفونة في البقيع في دار عقيل بن أبي طالب أو بالقرب منها أو مع ابنها الإمام الحسن عليه السلام
 
The first statement from the three statements is that she is buried in Al-Baqi', in the house of 'Aqil ibn Abi Talib, or in proximity to it, or with her son Al-Hasan ('as).

This view suggests as can be seen that Fatimah Zahra ('as) was buried in Jannat Al-Baqi', and this is the most common opinion among laymen and scholars today I have seen, that She ('as) is buried with Imam Hasan ('as). However, I have done research for this view and have not come across any narrations, although I found it referred to Manaqib Ibn Shahr Ashub, and Rawdhat Al-Wa'idhin, Insha'Allah if someone has information on this they can bring it to light.

Which scholars akhi? and by laymen do you mean aAmmah?

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(salam)

In Kitab al-Irshad it has been recorded, Imam Hassan (as), when he asks himself to be buried in al-Baqi, he says bury me besides Fatima bint al-Asad and he is not making a reference to his direct mother, Fatima bint Muhammad (sa) - which could also be used as another proof that indicates that perhaps her grave is not in al-Baqi.

Quote
When I have died, shut my eyes, wash me and shroud me. Then carry me on my bier to the grave of my grandfather, the Apostle of God, may God bless him and his family, so that I may renew my covenant with him. After that take me to the grave of my grandmother, Fatima daughter of Asad, may God be pleased with her, and bury me there.

Then they went on with (the body of) al-Hasan, peace be on him, and they buried him in (the cemetery of) al-Baqi' beside his grandmother, Fatima daughter of Asad b. Hashim b. 'Abd Manaf, may God be pleased with her.

The view regarding the Prophet (pbuh) saying that her grave is near the pulpit. First of all, why was the Prophet (pbuh) saying her grave is there when he hadn't even passed away? If he mentioned this, wouldn't the companions have known about it? Who was the Prophet (pbuh) addressing in that narration?

Wassalam

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On 1/5/2014 at 4:41 AM, Ibn al-Hussain said:

(salam)

In Kitab al-Irshad it has been recorded, Imam Hassan (as), when he asks himself to be buried in al-Baqi, he says bury me besides Fatima bint al-Asad and he is not making a reference to his direct mother, Fatima bint Muhammad (sa) - which could also be used as another proof that indicates that perhaps her grave is not in al-Baqi.

The view regarding the Prophet (pbuh) saying that her grave is near the pulpit. First of all, why was the Prophet (pbuh) saying her grave is there when he hadn't even passed away? If he mentioned this, wouldn't the companions have known about it? Who was the Prophet (pbuh) addressing in that narration?

Wassalam

prophet did not say that between his grave and his pulpit will be the grave of syedah Fatimah, the very famous hadith that is accepted by Sunnis and Shiis is "between my pulpit and minbar a rawdhaah, one from heavens" the hadith then continues as per Imam's words (i guess) "it is a rawdhaah because Fatimah was buried there"

If we can prove that Syedah Fatimah house was between prophet's house and his minbar, then the 2 last views can be combined together.

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
السلام عليكم
 
On 1/5/2014 at 4:41 AM, Ibn al-Hussain said:

(salam)

In Kitab al-Irshad it has been recorded, Imam Hassan (as), when he asks himself to be buried in al-Baqi, he says bury me besides Fatima bint al-Asad and he is not making a reference to his direct mother, Fatima bint Muhammad (sa) - which could also be used as another proof that indicates that perhaps her grave is not in al-Baqi.

The view regarding the Prophet (pbuh) saying that her grave is near the pulpit. First of all, why was the Prophet (pbuh) saying her grave is there when he hadn't even passed away? If he mentioned this, wouldn't the companions have known about it? Who was the Prophet (pbuh) addressing in that narration?

Wassalam

The narration you presented from Kitab Al-Irshad volume 2 page 17:

وروى عبد الله بن إبراهيم عن زياد المخارقي قال: لما حضرت الحسن عليه السلام الوفاة استدعى الحسين بن علي عليهما السلام فقال: " يا أخي، إني مفارقك ولاحق بربي عزوجل وقد سقيت السم ورميت بكبدي في الطست، وإني لعارف بمن سقاني السم، ومن أين دهيت، وأنا أخاصمه إلى الله تعالى، فبحقي عليك إن تكلمت في ذلك بشئ، وانتظر ما يحدث الله عز ذكره في، فإذا قضيت فغمضني وغسلني وكفني واحملني على سريري إلى قبر جدي رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله لاجدد به عهدا، ثم ردني إلى قبر جدتي فاطمة بنت أسد رحمة الله عليها فادفني هناك

And [it was] narrated [by] 'Abdullah ibn Ibrahim [who learned] from Ziyad Al-Makhrizi [who] said: When Al-Hasan ibn 'Ali ('as) was close to death, he summoned Al-Hussain ibn 'Ali ('as) and said: "Oh my brother, I am leaving you and joining my Lord. I have been given poison to drink and vomited out my insides into the basin. And I am aware of the person who poisoned me, and from where I have been made a subject to of this deceitful action. And I will be in opposition to him to Allah the almighty. So by my right upon you, do not say anything about that thing, and wait for what Allah will decide concerning me. So when I have expired, shut my [eyes], and wash me, and enshroud me, and carry me on my bier to the grave of my grandfather, the Messenger of Allah (saawa), so I may renew to him my covenant. Then return me to the grave of my grandmother Fatimah bint Asad, may Allah take mercy upon her, and bury me there.

The reason why I don't think this is talking about the grave of Syeda Zahra ('as) is because there's similar hadith in Al-Kafi where Imam Al-Hasan ('as) gives his will to his brother, but differentiates the grave of his mother and Al-Baqi':

علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن بكر بن صالح [قال الكليني] وعدة من أصحابنا، عن ابن زياد، عن محمد بن سليمان الديلمي، عن هارون بن الجهم، عن محمد ابن مسلم قال سمعت ابا جفعر عليه السلام يقول: لما حضر الحسن بن علي عليهما السلام الوفاة قال للحسين عليه السلام: يا أخي إني اوصيك بوصية فاحفظها، إذا أنا مت فهيئني ثم وجهني إلى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله لاحدث به عهدا ثم اصرفني إلى امي عليها السلام ثم ردني فادفني بالبقيع

[Al-Kulayni reports a narration from]: 'Ali ibn Ibrahim [who learned] from his father [who learned] from Bakr ibn Salih, [Al-Kulayni [also] said]: And from a group of our companions [who learned] from Muhammad ibn Sulayman Al-Daylami [who learned] from Harun ibn Al-Jahm [who learned] from Muhammad ibn Muslim, he said: I heard Abu Ja'far (Al-Baqir ('as)) [and] he [was] saying: When Al-Hasan ibn 'Ali ('as) was close to death, he said to Al-Hussain ibn 'Ali ('as): Oh my brother, I command you with a will [of mine] so guard it; when I die, prepare me (ie. for death), then direct me to the Messenger of Allah (saawa), so I may renew with him my pact. Then take me to my mother ('as), then return me and bury me in Al-Baqi'.

Al-Kafi volume 1 page 300

Then both narrations go on to talk about how his funeral was disturbed. Getting to the point of my argument, Imam Hasan ('as) differentiated between the two sites in his wording in the second Hadith, saying to return and bury his body to Al-Baqi' after seeing his mother, if they were in the same place (meaning Syeda Zahra ('as)'s body was in Jannat Al-Baqi'), why would there be a need to make a difference in where his mother was and Al-Baqi', and saying to return him to Al-Baqi' after seeing his mother.

On 1/5/2014 at 4:20 AM, IbnSohan said:

Which scholars akhi? and by laymen do you mean aAmmah?

Scholars I've seen, pretty much any Pakistani speaker I've listened to at the Imambargas, scholars who come and go in our masjid here. I was hesitant using the word scholar because I'm not sure of the opinions of the 'Ulama and Maraja' so I don't extend the "scholars" to the 'Ulama and Maraja'. And I meant normal shi'ah when I said laymen, and again the ones I've encountered, I don't care what the 'Ammah believe.

والسلام

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The popular view amongst the `amaah is that she (sa) is buried in Baqi, however some renowned scholars of their school hold the opinion that she (sa) was indeed buried in her house. 

Also, a story quoted by Shaykh al-`Amri (Shiite scholar from Medina) indicates that during his youth, the markings of the grave of her holiness (sa) was evident in her house (hence his belief that she was surely buried there). 

Nice work, i've read almost similar research articles in Farsi and Arabic, it seems that the most likely place is the House, as you suggested, although some scholars keep the possibility open for it to be in between the grave of the Prophet (saw) and his pulpit. 

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On 1/5/2014 at 3:13 AM, Ibn Al-Ja said:

The second view:

The second view is that she is buried in the garden, which is referring to the space between the grave of the Prophet (saawa) and his pulpit. This is backed up by narrations such as that which follows:

حدثنا محمد بن موسى بن المتوكل - رضي الله عنه - قال: حدثنا علي بن الحسين السعد آبادي، عن أحمد بن أبي عبد الله البرقي، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن بعض أصحابنا، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله: ما بين قبري ومنبري روضة من رياض الجنة ومنبري على ترعة من ترع الجنة لان قبر فاطمة صلوات الله عليها بين قبره ومنبره وقبرها روضة من رياض الجنة وإليه ترعة من ترع الجنة

[Al-Saduq narrates saying it was] Narrated to us [by] Muhammad ibn Musa ibn Al-Mutawakkil, he said: [it was] Narrated to us [by] 'Ali ibn Al-Hussain Al-Sa'd Al-Abidi, [who learned] from Ahmad ibn Abi 'Abdillah Al-Barqi, [who learned] from his Father, [who learned] from Ibn Abi 'Umayr, [who learned] from some of our companions, [who learned] from Abi 'Abdillah ('as), he said: The Messenger of Allah (saawa) said: What is between by grave and pulpit is a garden from the gardens of paradise, and my pulpit is upon a canal from the canals of paradise, because the grave of Fatimah ('as) is between its grave and its pulpit, and her grave is the garden from the gardens of paradise, and to it [flow] a canal from the canals of paradise.

[...]

The third view:

The third view is that she was buried in her house, and when the umawis expanded the masjid's boundries, her grave became part of the masjid. This is personally my view, and there are numerous traditions for it. I will quote some of them, including a reliable one. It is narrated in Al-Kafi:

علي بن محمد وغيره، عن سهل بن زياد، عن أحمد بن محمد بن أبي نصر قال: سألت الرضا عليه السلام عن قبر فاطمة عليها السلام فقال: دفنت في بيتها فلما زادت بنو أمية في المسجد صارت في المسجد

[Al-Kulayni narrates that it was reported to him from] 'Ali ibn Muhammad and others, [who learned from] from Sahl ibn Ziyad, [who learned] from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Abi Nasr, he said: I asked Al-Ridha ('as) about the grave of Fatima ('as), so he said: She was buried in her house, and when Banu Umayyah expanded the masjid's border, it [was included] in the masjid.

Al-Kafi volume 1 page 461

Grading: Dha'if 'Ala Mashhur (Weak upon fame - ie. this chain is weak but this is a famous narration, the weakness here is Sahl ibn Ziyad Al-Amidi)

Source: Allama Majlisi, Mir'at Al-'Uqul volume 5 page 348

That latter riwayah is not reliable as it is reported through Sahl bin Ziyad who has been criticised and weakened by numerous scholars. In-fact, the former narration has arguably more strength in isnad than this latter narration. However, its matn is strange because Fatimah [a] died after her father .

The meaning of dha`if `alah mashhur: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234981285-quran-2455/#entry2117681

On 1/5/2014 at 3:13 AM, Ibn Al-Ja said:

He reports similarly in 'Uyun Akhbar Al-Ridha ('as):

حدثنا أبي ومحمد بن الحسن بن أحمد الوليد رضي الله عنهما وأحمد بن محمد بن يحيى العطار ومحمد بن علي ماجيلويه ومحمد بن موسى بن المتوكل رضي الله عنهم قالوا: حدثنا محمد بن يحيى العطار وأحمد بن إدريس جميعا سهل بن زياد الآدمي عن أحمد بن محمد بن أبي نصر البزنطي قال: سألت أبا الحسن علي بن موسى الرضا عليه السلام عن قبر فاطمة عليها السلام فقال: دفنت في بيتها فلما زادت بنو أمية في المسجد صارت في المسجد

[Al-Saduq narrates that it was] narrated to us [by] my Father, and Muhammad ibn Al-Hasan ibn Ahmad ibn Walid, and Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya Al-'Attar, and Muhammad ibn 'Ali Majilawayh, and Muhammad ibn Musa Al-Mutawakkil, they said: [it] was narrated to us [by] Muhammad ibn Yahya Al-'Attar and Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Idrees collectively [from] Sahl ibn Ziyad Al-Amidi, [who learned] from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Nasr Al-Bazanti, [and] he said: I asked Aba Al-Hasan Al-Ridha ('as) about the grave of Fatimah ('as), so he said: She was buried in her house, and when Banu Umayyah expanded the masjid's border, it [was included] in the masjid.

'Uyun Akhbar Al-Ridha ('as) volume 2 page 278

This is the same riwayah as the one in al-Kafi through different turuq upto Sahl from Ibn Abi Nasr.

 
On 1/5/2014 at 3:13 AM, Ibn Al-Ja said:

Finally it has been reported on a reliable chain in Tahdhib:

عنه عن أحمد بن محمد بن أبي نصر قال: سألت أبا الحسن عليه السلام عن قبر فاطمة عليها السلام فقال: دفنت في بيتها فلما زادت بنو أمية في المسجد صارت في المسجد

And from him, [who learned] from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Abi Nasr, he said: I asked Aba Al-Hasan Al-Ridha ('as) about the grave of Fatimah ('as), so he said: She was buried in her house, and when Banu Umayyah expanded the masjid's border, it [was included] in the masjid.

Tahdhib Al-Ahkam volume 3 page 255

Grading: Sahih (authentic/correct)

Source: Allama Majlisi, Miladh Al-Akhyar volume 5 page 481

It should be noted in volume 14 page 368 Shaykh Hurr Al-'Amili made two interesting points. Firstly, the chain above from Tahdhib Al-Ahkam is longer, and the "From him" is Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn Yahya.

This is also the same riwayah as the one in al-Kafi.

I think there is some difficulty in Muhammad bin Ahmad reporting from Ibn Abi Nasr (d. 221AH):

1) Muhammad bin Ahmad reports much from Ahmad bin al-Hasan bin `Ali bin Faddal (d. 260AH), `Ubaydi, Ibn Abi 'l-Khattab (d. 262AH) (who reports work(s) of Muhammad bin Ahmad directly), Barqi (d. 274 or 280AH) and others who are the students of the generation of Ibn Abi Nasr.

2) There only about ~10 reports in the Four Books, all in Tahdhibayn, where Muhammad bin Ahmad reports from Ibn Abi Nasr without intermediaries and these might all be mursal.

3) There are many more instances of Muhammad bin Ahmad reporting from Ibn Abi Nasr through an intermediary, and even instances of two intermediaries.

In-light of all of these turuq reporting this riwayah of Ibn Abi Bazanti through Sahl bin Ziyad, there is a significant possibility it seem that Muhammad bin Ahmad - the one about whom it was said " و يعتمد المراسيل" (and he relied on maraaseel) - reported this from Sahl from Ibn Abi Nasr and the intermediary was dropped either originally or at some point in its transmission or by Tusi inadvertently. (There are cases of narrators being dropped in Tahdhib, when they are present in the same riwayat in al-Kafi). So, this riwayah's isnad requires tawaqquf since it is probably missing Sahl before Muhammad bin Ahmad.

On 1/5/2014 at 3:57 PM, Ibn Al-Ja said:

The narration you presented from Kitab Al-Irshad volume 2 page 17:

 

وروى عبد الله بن إبراهيم عن زياد المخارقي قال: لما حضرت الحسن عليه السلام الوفاة استدعى الحسين بن علي عليهما السلام فقال: " يا أخي، إني مفارقك ولاحق بربي عزوجل وقد سقيت السم ورميت بكبدي في الطست، وإني لعارف بمن سقاني السم، ومن أين دهيت، وأنا أخاصمه إلى الله تعالى، فبحقي عليك إن تكلمت في ذلك بشئ، وانتظر ما يحدث الله عز ذكره في، فإذا قضيت فغمضني وغسلني وكفني واحملني على سريري إلى قبر جدي رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله لاجدد به عهدا، ثم ردني إلى قبر جدتي فاطمة بنت أسد رحمة الله عليها فادفني هناك

And [it was] narrated [by] 'Abdullah ibn Ibrahim [who learned] from Ziyad Al-Makhrizi [who] said: When Al-Hasan ibn 'Ali ('as) was close to death, he summoned Al-Hussain ibn 'Ali ('as) and said: "Oh my brother, I am leaving you and joining my Lord. I have been given poison to drink and vomited out my insides into the basin. And I am aware of the person who poisoned me, and from where I have been made a subject to of this deceitful action. And I will be in opposition to him to Allah the almighty. So by my right upon you, do not say anything about that thing, and wait for what Allah will decide concerning me. So when I have expired, shut my [eyes], and wash me, and enshroud me, and carry me on my bier to the grave of my grandfather, the Messenger of Allah (saawa), so I may renew to him my covenant. Then return me to the grave of my grandmother Fatimah bint Asad, may Allah take mercy upon her, and bury me there.

This khabar is majhool and not from a ma`sum, nor from a contemporary correct me if I am wrong.

On 1/5/2014 at 3:57 PM, Ibn Al-Ja said:

The reason why I don't think this is talking about the grave of Syeda Zahra ('as) is because there's similar hadith in Al-Kafi where Imam Al-Hasan ('as) gives his will to his brother, but differentiates the grave of his mother and Al-Baqi':

علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن بكر بن صالح [قال الكليني] وعدة من أصحابنا، عن ابن زياد، عن محمد بن سليمان الديلمي، عن هارون بن الجهم، عن محمد ابن مسلم قال سمعت ابا جفعر عليه السلام يقول: لما حضر الحسن بن علي عليهما السلام الوفاة قال للحسين عليه السلام: يا أخي إني اوصيك بوصية فاحفظها، إذا أنا مت فهيئني ثم وجهني إلى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله لاحدث به عهدا ثم اصرفني إلى امي عليها السلام ثم ردني فادفني بالبقيع

[Al-Kulayni reports a narration from]: 'Ali ibn Ibrahim [who learned] from his father [who learned] from Bakr ibn Salih, [Al-Kulayni [also] said]: And from a group of our companions [who learned] from Muhammad ibn Sulayman Al-Daylami [who learned] from Harun ibn Al-Jahm [who learned] from Muhammad ibn Muslim, he said: I heard Abu Ja'far (Al-Baqir ('as)) [and] he [was] saying: When Al-Hasan ibn 'Ali ('as) was close to death, he said to Al-Hussain ibn 'Ali ('as): Oh my brother, I command you with a will [of mine] so guard it; when I die, prepare me (ie. for death), then direct me to the Messenger of Allah (saawa), so I may renew with him my pact. Then take me to my mother ('as), then return me and bury me in Al-Baqi'.

Al-Kafi volume 1 page 300

Then both narrations go on to talk about how his funeral was disturbed. Getting to the point of my argument, Imam Hasan ('as) differentiated between the two sites in his wording in the second Hadith, saying to return and bury his body to Al-Baqi' after seeing his mother, if they were in the same place (meaning Syeda Zahra ('as)'s body was in Jannat Al-Baqi'), why would there be a need to make a difference in where his mother was and Al-Baqi', and saying to return him to Al-Baqi' after seeing his mother.

Nice catch. It is also weak and doesn't distinguish between the second and third views.

So, it seems there are no reliable reports on this topic if this is the summation of the relevant reports on this topic. You have two opposing akhbar al-wahid which say contrary things, and a third which rules out the first position which has no support in the akhbar you say.

One wonders whether Saduq had access to more riwayat for him to affirm a particular position.

Edited by Hameedeh
To remove strikethrough fonts.

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حدثنا محمد بن موسى بن المتوكل - رضي الله عنه - قال: حدثنا علي بن الحسين السعد آبادي، عن أحمد بن أبي عبد الله البرقي، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن بعض أصحابنا، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: {قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله: ما بين قبري ومنبري روضة من رياض الجنة ومنبري على ترعة من ترع الجنة}. لان قبر فاطمة صلوات الله عليها بين قبره ومنبره وقبرها روضة من رياض الجنة وإليه ترعة من ترع الجنة


OR

 


حدثنا محمد بن موسى بن المتوكل - رضي الله عنه - قال: حدثنا علي بن الحسين السعد آبادي، عن أحمد بن أبي عبد الله البرقي، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن بعض أصحابنا، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله: ما بين قبري ومنبري روضة من رياض الجنة ومنبري على ترعة من ترع الجنة لان قبر فاطمة صلوات الله عليها بين قبره ومنبره وقبرها روضة من رياض الجنة وإليه ترعة من ترع الجنة


 

the explanation did not come from Rasul Allah!, It is either a) Imam Sadiq said it OR b) a group of our companions said it. OR c) Muhamad bin Musa bin Mutawakil OR d) the author of the book.

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al-Himyari said:

 

أحمد بن محمد بن نصر البزنطي قال: سألت الرضا عليه السلام عن فاطمة بنت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله أي مكان دفنت؟ فقال: سأل رجل جعفراً عليه السلام عن هذه المسألة -  وعيسى بن موسى حاضر -  فقال له عيسى: دفنت في البقيع. فقال الرجل: ما تقول؟ فقال: قد قال لك. فقلت له: أصلحك الله، ما أنا وعيسى بن موسى؟ أخبرني عن آبائك! فقال: دفنت في بيتها

 

al-Himyari r.a, "Qurb al-İsnad", page 367, hadith 1314

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(salam)

Although we aren't sure about the place of her grave, we are sure about many things:

Surely it can not be clear by scholarly discussions. Allah doesn't will this.

Surely She was very dissatisfied with many people...

Surely She was oppressed by them. Her hidden  grave is the sign of this.

Surely...

Surely no matter where the her grave is.

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(salam)

Surely it can not be clear by scholarly discussions. Allah doesn't will this.

 

Surely no matter where the her grave is.

(wasalam)

Sorry to oppose this but can you say why Allah doesn't ? If you answer: because lady Fatima a.s. didn't want that , i want to ask: didn't imam Ali want that too ? (the grave of Imam Ali a.s. was hidden due to his wassiyah until the time of Imam Sadiq a.s. that means about 100 years) 

 

 

About your second point : i think it would be very better if we don't talk that much certain and give a categorical verdict that  there is " no matter" !!

There is a matter if there wasn't A'immah and great Ulama wouldn't have talked about that, this much!

if it is not a matter i want to ask you a question: is that correct in your idea; the most important point is to believe in A'immah so there would be no problem if takfiries demolish the holy shrine of Imam Al-Askari while we know that he is one of the 12 Imams and must be obeyed and followed ??

 

And do you mean by your post, that it is the same for you (i.e. A SHIA) if we knew where her grave is or don't knew ?! 

 

(By the way  "where the her grave is."  is wrong, there is no need to "the" )

 

(wasalam)

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Where Is The Grave Of Syeda Fatima (as)?

Is that important to our deen? Will we be questioned on this?

Being on this site and posting on this thread, is it important to your deen? Will you be questioned on this? Edited by PureEthics

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Being on this site and posting on this thread,

 

Islam is outside of a particular site and thread. Islam is Islam and stands out on it's own.

I asked a legitimate question to which you had no real answer.

Edited by azizrasul

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Islam is outside of a particular site and thread. Islam is Islam and stands out on it's own.

I asked a legitimate question to which you had no real answer.

Huh? You don't make any sense what so ever. This is an Islamic site and that fact is your posts prove it as they speak about Islam. So before you go around making stupid statements like above, first subject yourself to that.

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So before you go around making stupid statements like above, first subject yourself to that.

 

Can you explain exactly what was stupid? The fact that we are on an Islamic site makes no difference to my pointy which I will repeat, why is important to know the whereabouts of the grave of fatima (May Allaah be pleased with her)?

 

You seem, in my opinion, to be avoiding answering the question but have decided to go on a rant instead. Have I hit a raw nerve? It seems I have made a legitimate point and you have nothing positive to say about it.
 

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Can you explain exactly what was stupid? The fact that we are on an Islamic site makes no difference to my pointy which I will repeat, why is important to know the whereabouts of the grave of fatima (May Allaah be pleased with her)?

You seem, in my opinion, to be avoiding answering the question but have decided to go on a rant instead. Have I hit a raw nerve? It seems I have made a legitimate point and you have nothing positive to say about it.

Let me tell you why it's important to know her grave. Because she is the daughter of Muhammad A.S and do you not think her father would have wanted to visit her grave? We want to know so we go and give our respects and mourn, just a we go to Muhammad A.S grave why? Because we want to feel that close connection. Why do you think millions go and visit the nabi in medina? For fun? No because it is the Sunnah of Muhammad to visit the loved ones of Allah a.s and it was Muhammad who always visited the graves of his companions and family.

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We visit the grave of Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) and we know the whereabouts of his grave. We can easily pray for the loved ones wherever we are. Our salaams to Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) are automatically sent wherever we may happen to be. After all not everyone can visit specific graves.

 

We can make dua for all other Muslims wherever we are and wherever they happen to be buried. Just because there is no grave to attend does not change this. Hence my question why is it so important to have the location of Fatima's (May Allaah be pleased with her) grave, isn't it enough to make dua for her. Why do people like you hijack the deen by laying so much importance to issues which effectively take people away from the important aspects of the deen.

 

I for one I'm glad that we don't know the position of the grave as I'm sure some Muslims would commit shirk. Making dua is much better and visiting the graves we already have is enough.

 

Don't waste your time on fruitless issues and encourage others to do the same. I'm sure if Allaah, subhana-ta'la, wanted the Muslims to know the position of Fatima's (May Allaah be pleased with her) grave, He would have done so. We don't know where the graves of many of the prophets are, does this mean we cannot make dua for them?

 

You will not be questioned in the hereafter regarding whether you succeeded or failed to find the grave of the blessed daughter of Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

Edited by azizrasul

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