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Salamualaykum,

 

my marja is Ayatollah Sistani. About the permanent marriage with a Christian girl, he says that as an obligatory precaution a Muslim should not take them in permanent marriage:

 

2406. A Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim, and a male Muslim also cannot marry a non-Muslim woman who are not Ahlul Kitab. However, there is no harm in contracting temporary marriage with Jewish and Christians women, but the obligatory precaution is that a Muslim should not take them in permanent marriage. 
There are certain sects like Khawarij, Ghulat and Nawasib who claim to be Muslims, but are classified as non-Muslims. Muslim men and women cannot contract permanent or temporary marriage with them. 

 

My question is, if it is possible to follow in that particular issue another marja, because there are some who allow it, or do I have to change my marja?????

 

It is very important for me to know that, so can someone help me please. Thank you so much in advance!!!!

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7. If an A'lam Mujtahid gives a fatwa on some matter, his follower cannot act in that matter on the fatwa of another Mujtahid. But if he does not give a fatwa, and expresses a precaution (Ihtiyat) that a man should act in such and such a manner, for exam ple if he says that as a precautionary measure, in the first and second Rak'at of the namaz he should read a complete Surah after the Surah of "Hamd", the follower may either act on this precaution, which is called obligatory precaution (Ihtiyat Wajib), or he may act on the fatwa of another Mujtahid who it is permissible to follow. Hence, if he (the second Mujtahid) rules that only "Surah Hamd" is enough, he (the person offering prayers) may drop the second Surah. The position will be the same if the A'a lam Mujtahid expresses terms like Ta'mmul or Ishkal.

 

http://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2116/

 

So yes, you can act on the fatwa of another marja, like Sadiq Ruhani.  You do  not need  to "change" your marja. 

 

Sayyid Sistani was one of Sayyid khoei former students. 

 

Sayyid al khoei gave a fatwa :

 

2406. A Muslim woman cannot marry an infidel and a male Muslim cannot also many a non Muslim woman except the (People of the Scriptures i.e. Ahle Kitab). However, there is no harm in contracting fixed time marriage with women like Jews and Christians and the recommended precaution is that one should not take them in permanent marriage. There are certain sects like Khawarij, Ghulat and Nawasib who claim to be Muslims, but are considered to be infidels. Muslim men and women cannot, therefore, contract permanent or fixed time marriage with them.

Edited by Nima

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You can have a 100 year "temporary" marriage or you can make the contract repeatedly.

But you should think about the reason for the prohibition before you consider the loopholes.

 

Or he can marry her  permanently...

Edited by Nima

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even if you can marry :Ahlul-Kitab , there are not many around according to :Islamic definitions .

unless you go to remote villages or mountains and find those hidden monasteries .

another test to know if they are true :Ahlul-Kitab for sure is to mention :Islam and the real ones would revert instantly.

All others are fakes .

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(Wasalam)

You can have a 100 year "temporary" marriage or you can make the contract repeatedly.

But you should think about the reason for the prohibition before you consider the loopholes.

That would lead to not so ideal inheritance conditions for the wife and child after the husband dies in what was essentially handled like a non-time stipulated marriage.

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^True that there is no designated inheritance for the wife, but inheritance for the children would be the same. He can set aside a fund for his wife while he is still alive to provide for her if he dies. It isn't an insurmountable obstacle.

But I still think he should consider the reasons marriage with non-Muslims is discouraged. In particular, how will the children be raised? Also, how will his spirituality and practice be effected?

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even if you can marry :Ahlul-Kitab , there are not many around according to :Islamic definitions .

unless you go to remote villages or mountains and find those hidden monasteries .

another test to know if they are true :Ahlul-Kitab for sure is to mention :Islam and the real ones would revert instantly.

All others are fakes .

I doubt they are more 'fake' than the Ahlulkitab that existed 1400 years ago, or than many Muslims these days for that matter.

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wa alaikum salam. I always wonder why people read "Should" as "Must" and "Should Not" as "Can't".

 

I always wonder why people bother posting question on here when a simple phone call to their local Alim or Agha Sistani's representative will answer the question. It appears the majority of the time it is because the answer received isnt what they want to hear and they just looking for a loop hole.

 

In reality when a person consults an Alim in 2 way discourse that Alim will want to know whether you are a true practicing Shia or just a customary one.

The Alim may feel that you are lacking in certain elements of Islamic knowledge and practice and hence when marrying a non mulsim may be deflected of Islam and in turn your children will be non-Muslim as well.

 

Most guys dont want to answer these awkward questions and dont try and understand why the obligatory precaution is in place

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True that there is no designated inheritance for the wife, 

 

Yes there is.

 

[4:12]

 

Half of what your wives leave shall be yours if they have no children; but if they do, then a fourth of what they leave shall be your's, after paying the bequests they shall bequeath, and debts. And your wives shall have a fourth part of what you leave if you have no children; but if you have children, then they shall have an eighth part of what you leave, after paying the bequests you shall bequeath, and debts. If a man or a woman make a distant relation their heir, and he or she have a brother or a sister, each of these two shall have a sixth; but if there are more than this, then shall they be sharers in a third, after payment of the bequests he shall have bequeathed, and debts, Without loss to any one. This is the ordinance of God, and God is Knowing, Gracious!

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^That is the inheritance of a permanent wife. As I understand it, there is no inheritance for the temporary wife even if temporary exceeds a lifetime.

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I doubt they are more 'fake' than the Ahlulkitab that existed 1400 years ago, or than many Muslims these days for that matter.

most people today are fake in the sense that they have lost their identities literally.

They have nothing , own nothing and exist as nom de guerre fiction entities .

they are not real humans as those that existed 1400 years ago.

the slaves back then knew they were slaves .

the free men and women were really free.

today they have no idea and hence exist in a fake reality with a fake name thinking it's all theirs .

Edited by :Sami II

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Ayatollah Sadiq Shirazi allows it.

 

does he allow it if you are a 'non-practising' 'customary shia' who can barely keep his own mazhab let alone be given the responsibility of persuading his non-muslim wife that the kids should be brought up as Shia.

 

So many cases of wives saying yes that kids will be muslim but their only understanding of  Islam is their highly westernised husbands

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Thanks for all the responses so far!!!

 

 

 

7. If an A'lam Mujtahid gives a fatwa on some matter, his follower cannot act in that matter on the fatwa of another Mujtahid. But if he does not give a fatwa, and expresses a precaution (Ihtiyat) that a man should act in such and such a manner, for exam ple if he says that as a precautionary measure, in the first and second Rak'at of the namaz he should read a complete Surah after the Surah of "Hamd", the follower may either act on this precaution, which is called obligatory precaution (Ihtiyat Wajib), or he may act on the fatwa of another Mujtahid who it is permissible to follow. Hence, if he (the second Mujtahid) rules that only "Surah Hamd" is enough, he (the person offering prayers) may drop the second Surah. The position will be the same if the A'a lam Mujtahid expresses terms like Ta'mmul or Ishkal.

 

http://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2116/

 

So yes, you can act on the fatwa of another marja, like Sadiq Ruhani.  You do  not need  to "change" your marja. 

 

Sayyid Sistani was one of Sayyid khoei former students. 

 

Sayyid al khoei gave a fatwa :

 

2406. A Muslim woman cannot marry an infidel and a male Muslim cannot also many a non Muslim woman except the (People of the Scriptures i.e. Ahle Kitab). However, there is no harm in contracting fixed time marriage with women like Jews and Christians and the recommended precaution is that one should not take them in permanent marriage. There are certain sects like Khawarij, Ghulat and Nawasib who claim to be Muslims, but are considered to be infidels. Muslim men and women cannot, therefore, contract permanent or fixed time marriage with them.

 

So if Sistani would have a Fatwa on this matter, it wouldn’t be possible to follow another marja for that particular issue???  I think that I read somewhere that Sistani have a Fatwa on this?????

 

 

^True that there is no designated inheritance for the wife, but inheritance for the children would be the same. He can set aside a fund for his wife while he is still alive to provide for her if he dies. It isn't an insurmountable obstacle.

But I still think he should consider the reasons marriage with non-Muslims is discouraged. In particular, how will the children be raised? Also, how will his spirituality and practice be effected?

 

Why there should be problems with the Raising of children, if the christian girl respects my religion and the values of it. And if she takes interest in islamic raising and also agrees that our children will be raised Shiitic.

 

 

 

 

Do someone know if where are other differences between a muslim and non-muslim wife aside from the inheritance???

 

Thanks!!!!!

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Her religion will not recognize the Islamic marriage ceremony, and yours will not recognize the Christian ceremony, so you will need both.

If she drinks alcohol or eats haram foods, that might become an issue, especially if she wants to feed haram meats to your future children.

I don't know how you feel about Christian holidays, but she will almost definitely want you to commemorate some of the important ones with her. You can ask her to observe your holy days too.

Her family may interfere. This will especially be painful if you have children.

If the marriage is based on mutual respect, all the differences should be manageable. The major concern I have is that Christians are required by their religion to raise their children Christian. I'd recommend you put a lot of thought and discussion into this issue.

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Thanks for all the responses so far!!!

 

 

 

 

So if Sistani would have a Fatwa on this matter, it wouldn’t be possible to follow another marja for that particular issue???  I think that I read somewhere that Sistani have a Fatwa on this?????

 

 

 

Why there should be problems with the Raising of children, if the christian girl respects my religion and the values of it. And if she takes interest in islamic raising and also agrees that our children will be raised Shiitic

 

 

 

 

Do someone know if where are other differences between a muslim and non-muslim wife aside from the inheritance???

 

Thanks!!!!!

Salam, 

 

Sayyid Sistani does not have a definite fatwa on the issue. If he did, he would have said, this is haram, makrooh, etc.

 

In case you didn't realize this (or were forgetting), All things are halal, mubah (meaning Allah(s.w.a) gives you the free will to chose to do or not to do) unless there is specific evidence from Quran / Hadith that they are haram, makrooh or something is wajib (you must do it and there is punishment from Allah(s.w.a) if you don't do it) or mustahab(there is reward from Allah(s.w.a) for doing it but no punishment or bad if you don't do it). This is the basic framework which everyone must understand when looking at these fatwa. 

 

What Sayyid Sistani(may Allah(s.w.a) continue to guide him and give him long life) is saying is that there is some evidence that this is haram, but this evidence, in his opinion, does not reach the level where it is definitely haram, so he gives you a choice, either practice ihtiyyat (precaution) and don't do it or you can follow another marjaa' in this issue since he didn't give a definite fatwa. So you have two choices, but most of the time it is better to go with ihtiyyat, unless going with ihtiyyat will put you in a position of extreme hardship and/or lead you to do something which is definitely haram. If he said definitely haram, then you are not allowed to do it and you are committing a sin if you do it. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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Why there should be problems with the Raising of children, if the christian girl respects my religion and the values of it. And if she takes interest in islamic raising and also agrees that our children will be raised Shiitic.

 

 

If you need this spelt out to you  You are either very immature or live a very sheltered life . I again suggest that the reason why you are not asking an Alim face to face because he will ask you some difficult questions

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Sayyid Sistani does not have a definite fatwa on the issue. If he did, he would have said, this is haram, makrooh, etc.

 

In case you didn't realize this (or were forgetting), All things are halal, mubah (meaning Allah(s.w.a) gives you the free will to chose to do or not to do) unless there is specific evidence from Quran / Hadith that they are haram, makrooh or something is wajib (you must do it and there is punishment from Allah(s.w.a) if you don't do it) or mustahab(there is reward from Allah(s.w.a) for doing it but no punishment or bad if you don't do it). This is the basic framework which everyone must understand when looking at these fatwa. 

 

What Sayyid Sistani(may Allah(s.w.a) continue to guide him and give him long life) is saying is that there is some evidence that this is haram, but this evidence, in his opinion, does not reach the level where it is definitely haram, so he gives you a choice, either practice ihtiyyat (precaution) and don't do it or you can follow another marjaa' in this issue since he didn't give a definite fatwa. So you have two choices, but most of the time it is better to go with ihtiyyat, unless going with ihtiyyat will put you in a position of extreme hardship and/or lead you to do something which is definitely haram. If he said definitely haram, then you are not allowed to do it and you are committing a sin if you do it. 

^ Looks like brother, just "spelt" it out for all of us.

SubhanAllah isn't logic simply beautiful?

Salam,

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...if a person follows a marja who says e..g "As a ihtiyat you can't and such thing" a person must follow the second most-knowledgeable scholar. Which means that he should know which of the scholars are most knowledgeable in terms of fiqh after his 1st maraja. This is important. He can't just say: "Oh, Sayed Sistani says I can't do that on a precaution, then let me just find a marja who allows it" - he have to follow the second most knowledgeable marja EVEN if he says "it's haram to do this act". 

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Her religion will not recognize the Islamic marriage ceremony, and yours will not recognize the Christian ceremony, so you will need both.

If she drinks alcohol or eats haram foods, that might become an issue, especially if she wants to feed haram meats to your future children.

I don't know how you feel about Christian holidays, but she will almost definitely want you to commemorate some of the important ones with her. You can ask her to observe your holy days too.

Her family may interfere. This will especially be painful if you have children.

If the marriage is based on mutual respect, all the differences should be manageable. The major concern I have is that Christians are required by their religion to raise their children Christian. I'd recommend you put a lot of thought and discussion into this issue.

I'm not going to comment on Muslim traditions, but since I'm stuck here, bored, with the busted back and all, thought I'd talk about some issues brought up by Notme in this older post because I have had to deal with cases of difference of religions in families.

It all depends upon the kind of Christian the bride is.

There would be three major kinds...Orthodox, Catholic ( the western " Latin" Church), and Protestants. There are other sects such as Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.that are not considered within the circle of defined Christianity by the other churches. I don't know what Muslims feel about those.

For the Orthodox and Catholics, marriage is a sacrament and a sacrament can only be between two Christians. The Orthodox Church will only marry two Christians. One would be the Orthodox partner and one can be from any other Christian church that baptizes in the name of the Trinity. Marriage to non-Christians is forbidden.

The Catholics have become much more flexible in the last few decades since Vatican II. Only marriage between two Christians constitutes a sacrament, but the church will perform a wedding in the church between a Catholic and a non-Christian and it is still considered valid in the eyes of God,though not a sacrament. In real life, most lay Catholics probably wouldn't know the difference and would deem any marriage in a Catholic Church to be a sacrament...so the couple would probably be treated no differently than two Catholics. Catholics in these unions are encouraged, but no longer required, to bring up their children Catholic, but if not then should try to bring them up in godly beliefs and not create disharmony in the marriage over differences in faith lest it engender in the children a " hatred of religion".

If perchance the non-Catholic or non-Christian spouse cannot or will not be married in a Catholic ceremony, the Catholic partner can apply to the local bishop for permission to hold the wedding elsewhere and still have it held as valid by the Church. This is usually okay and the marriage is recorded at the church just as if it had taken place there. ( Running off and getting married elsewhere without this permission is a no-no.) once permission is given, the wedding may take place anywhere deemed appropriate by the non-Christian partner's faith. One local Catholic got married , with permission, in a Buddhist ceremony at his wife's place of worship. So there is flexibility. However, in Catholic eyes, all these marriages are for life and if they end in divorce, an annulment process must be gone through if the Catholic spouse wishes to marry again in the Church, just as with a Catholic to Catholic union.

Most Protestant Churches ( there are so many of these it is hard to generalize) consider marriage to be a civil contract, not a sacrament. It is equally valid if performed in the county clerks office or in a church. So if the Christian and the non-Christian get married at the courthouse, that's okay. There may be very conservative or independent Churches who might refuse to perform a wedding with a non-Christian due to strict interpretation of certain Scriptures , but most of the mainstream ones ( especially the progressives) would likely have no problem accepting or performing the marriage and I think in most cases would expect the parents to decide in which faith to raise their kids. If the goal is to create a happy, functioning family, then the Christian spouse should consider how to celebrate his/her traditions in a way that wouldn't disrupt the peace and love in the home.

Hope this helps.

Edited by LeftCoastMom

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