Reverts With Atheist Parents

[MusaL]

Assalaamu aleikum brothers and sisters.

 

I was thinking that it might be a good idea to have a topic for reverts with atheist parents. For every revert to tell about their experiences with the family, and possibly find help.

So I have my own problem as well.

 

Bismillaahi r-rahmaani r-raheem

 

I am a 22-year old Finnish muslim man, reverted to Islam almost 2 years ago. Before that, I was a typical Finnish person. Drinking alcohol at nightclubs every weekend, talking and having sex with girls, masturbating a lot, smoking weed, smoking cigarettes, using curse words i.e. swearing a lot, listening music and having fun in this world. Trying to grasp every pleasure of the dunya.
Since my shahada, I have been struggling to get rid of these filthy habits, and Alhamdulillah, I got rid of alcohol almost straight away. My language is now as it should be, I quit smoking cigarettes 8 months ago, and quit weed a month ago, and have got pretty much rid of the other habits as well.

Finland is a country where you get depressed inevitably. It is so hard to live here, and there are so many reasons to it. I'm not going to open them up for you now, but I've come to the conclusion that I need to move out from Finland. Not only 'cause I can't live here, but I don't want my future children and wife, insha'Allah, to get affected by this environment. I see no good muslims here, everyone value the dunya so much here, but I'd like to live a different life. I'd like to raise my future children, insha'Allah, primarily to be good muslims, and strive for the akhira. But Finland school system is dangerous. It will teach the children that this world is what they need. And in Finland, if you don't let you child to go to the government's school, the government will take your child away from you, and put them into the school. Yes, the school will teach the child valuable things like writing, reading, mathematics and so on. And the child has then better chances to get a job, but the school teaches also Evolution theory as the truth, history is not nearly all true, and the other students... Like 1 percent is muslims and of that 1 percent there are not many good muslims. The child would feel separated from everyone. If the child would have friends, they would take him/her towards sinful acts, and if they had no friends, it would affect on the child also. Keeping in mind that the school starts in the morning and ends in the afternoon. All that time the child is receptive, but after school, the child is tired and won't have that receptiveness with their family. This is why soo many young people in Finland don't have any relationship with their parents whatsoever. And i want to raise my child by myself with my wife insha'Allah, to teach them the necessary like reading, writing, languages, mathematics, chemistry, physics, real history, al-kafi, Qur'an, fiqh, and about Islam in general. And in Iraq, I can give my children the opportunity to go to islamic-schools, which are so much more valuable to be in than these dunya-schools. Mind over matter. And when a child grows up to know Allah, their life will be fulfilled anyway.
So, this place is not for me, nor for my future family, insha'Allah.

 

So my problem really are my parents. They are atheists, and not willing to revert. I've tried many kinds of approaches, but they really are stubborn atheists. They fear death so much, and they think that my being a muslim, is a temporary thing and they wont believe I'll stay as one till I die. They mock my beliefs when I try to bring them up, but won't stop me from praying at least.

 

I'd want to move to Iraq. My good friend has land and money over there, in Nassiriyah, and I could go there, work as a mechanic and helper for his family for starters. But my concern is my religiosity, imaan, and I want it to flourish. In Iraq, I'd have more than great opportunity to have all this and get married and live the life of a true muslim. Close to Allah, Makkah, earth, Adhan and everything. 

 

So I'm in a situation that my parents are afraid to let me go to Iraq, and would go to the extent of not letting me. Oh, they'll find a way to stop me if they want to. They are afraid of letting me go there 'cause they think i'll be killed, kidnapped or something. 

 

Therefore my questions are; do the rulings differ with your parents if they are non-believers? What could I do? What should I do?

I do taqleed on Ali Al-Husayni Al-Sistani, but i couldn't send a question to him through the site of his, due some internet problems. I tried several times, but the site seems to have a problem with sending questions. So please tell me your opinions on this matter and help me if you can.

 

Alhamdulillah.

 

 

 

[IloveImamHussain]

I'd want to move to Iraq. My good friend has land and money over there, in Nassiriyah, and I could go there, work as a mechanic and helper for his family for starters. But my concern is my religiosity, imaan, and I want it to flourish. In Iraq, I'd have more than great opportunity to have all this and get married and live the life of a true muslim. Close to Allah, Makkah, earth, Adhan and everything. 

 

So I'm in a situation that my parents are afraid to let me go to Iraq, and would go to the extent of not letting me. Oh, they'll find a way to stop me if they want to. They are afraid of letting me go there 'cause they think i'll be killed, kidnapped or something. 

 

Salam brother

 

And welcome to Islam and to this forum 

 

Iraq is going through hell.  

 

8000 Shias were killed in suicide bombings in Iraq in 2013.

 

Besides, you may find it difficult to find a satisfactory job in Iraq.

 

I would not advise you to go to any Iraq at this time.

 

What about Sweden?

Sweden is close to you.

 

I think there are lots of Shia organizations in Sweden.

 

Would you like to go there for a holiday and see for yourself.

 

Or if you don't like Sweden, may be another European country where there are  enough Shias, like England, for example. 

Therefore my questions are; do the rulings differ with your parents if they are non-believers? What could I do? 

 

 

I think that might depend on what your question is.

 

What is your question?

 

But remember, Islam requires you to honor and respect for parents at all times, even if they are nonbelievers. 

 

Thy Lord hath decreed, that ye worship none save Him, and (that ye show) kindness to parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age with thee, say not "Fie" unto them nor repulse them, but speak unto them a gracious word.  [17:23-24]

 

And We have enjoined upon man concerning his partners - His mother bears him in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning is in two years - Give thanks unto Me and unto thy parents. Unto Me is the journeying.  [31:14]

 

But it also says, that if they mislead you, you should not follow them.

 

But if they strive with thee to make thee ascribe unto Me as partner that of which thou hast no knowledge, then obey them not. Consort with them in the world kindly, and follow the path of him who repents unto Me. Then unto Me will be your return, and I shall tell you what ye used to do [31:15].

 

In other words, you must honor and respect your parents at all times. But don't follow them  if they mislead you.  

[IloveImamHussain]

A benefit to staying in Finland, you have now increased the Muslim population of Finland by 1. If you marry and have, let's say, three kids, you have now increase the muslim population of Finland by 4. If your kids have three kids each, now it is 10, etc, etc. And if you do Dawa, you may increase it by more than that. That is a huge benefit, not to be taken lightly. My mother became Muslim in 1986. She increase the muslim population of the U.S by 1. Then all four of her kids became muslim( 1 born and 3 reverted) , now she increased it by 5. Now she has 13 grandchildren, now its 18. Do you see how that works. That was in the last 27 years. 

 

Brother, you live in the US. 

 

There is a significant Islamic presence in the US like there is in the UK, Canada, France,Germany etc. and perhaps to a lesser extent in places like Sweden, Denmark, Norway but countries like Finland, Hungary, Czech Republic etc are not so fortunate. There may be some Muslims there but by and large, insignificant, or as the brother said, not very committed. 

 

It may therefore be hard to raise a child on Islam in Finland and in countries where the Islamic presence is very small.

 

I think that is what the brother is worried about - raising  a family on Islamic ideals.

[MusaL]

Thank you for your replys brothers, but I've heard of the bombings and they are not my concern. Nassiriyah is not so troubled. And I'm not interested going into other western secular societies.

And let's say I land in Nassiriyah, and get killed. Let's face it, I could get killed anywhere. And by running away from death, I could not ever be happy, because I can never know when my time comes. It might be tonight, tomorrow, next week, any time. There is no certainty that I'll live to an old age. So I'm not running away from death. But running towards it? Nah, I don't see it that way. I see myself going there, and if I die, I'll die. Death isn't something that one should be afraid of so much. If one is on their way to Allah swt, death becomes a pathway to Allah swt. I do not mean suicide, or getting killed purposely, but living normal life there, helping orphans and needy people and spreading knowledge. If doing that will lead me to die, then so be. Then it is my time, but I really want to go there, because people are suffering. Innocent muslims live in deep poverty and orphans live on the streets.

In Finland death is hidden. It's there, but you can't see it. And because our social-care system, we don't have people living on the streets.

We have ideas to the work side and money isn't a problem to us in Iraq.

I've been is Sweden, France, England, Estonia, America and Denmark. But they are not different with this system people have to live buy. This secularism, private bankers, zionism, illuminati, oil corporations... This world is croocked, but in Iraq, I could find peace of mind.

I agree, I could live in here, but I want best for my children, and a different life than this. And the plan with me and my friend is to go to Iraq, but eventually to Iran, because things there are better and it is an islamic country.

Anyway, thank you, and I will trie to solve this matter somehow. Anyhow the time for me to leave wouldn't be sooner than months, so I still have time to think.

PS: to IloveImamHussein. You got it spot on :)

[Reza]

[IloveImamHussain]

PS: to IloveImamHussein. You got it spot on :)

 

Thanks brother and God bless you.

 

 

Anyway, thank you, and I will try to solve this matter somehow. Anyhow the time for me to leave wouldn't be sooner than months, so I still have time to think.

 

Brother, I wish you the best and pray that God Almighty helps you to make the right decision for your own sake and that of your future family.

 

God be with you.

[Raven]

I'd want to move to Iraq. My good friend has land and money over there, in Nassiriyah, and I could go there, work as a mechanic and helper for his family for starters. But my concern is my religiosity, imaan, and I want it to flourish. In Iraq, I'd have more than great opportunity to have all this and get married and live the life of a true muslim. Close to Allah, Makkah, earth, Adhan and everything. 

 

Corruption is everywhere, I'm from Nassriyia, Iraq. Nassriya might be more stable when it comes to safety and terrorism.  Its worse there since they call themselves Muslims yet they mistreat others that are below them. The government is full of injustice and corruption, I honestly don't know where to begin. Let me tell you this, if you have no strong connections in Nassriya, in fact in all Iraq you and your family will not be living at "peace". There's a lot of unemployment and those that get employed have a relative that can get them out with money and more money. You have to pay up to go where you want in Iraq, most of those poor people that live in poverty probably have degrees but they have no connections, you can be a doctor in 2 years in Iraq if you have a rich uncle that has your back. 

 

Schools, the education system is horrible, good schools tend to be private and even then they're not really that well. Hospitals are disgusting, you go with one disease and you come back with God knows what. The people, Iraqis in general are nice to foreigners but there are those that like to advantage of others, so you have to learn Arabic. 

 

Its a hard life for a normal citizen in Iraq, it'll probably be harder for you.

 

Like one of the users above me stated, its more beneficial if you find another country in Europe with Shias.

Edited December 29, 2013 by ~Rose~

[latifa]

Salams,

I understand. I became a convert some 30 years ago so have a lot of experience for what it is worth. We have problems not only with our families but with the society around us. Buckle up! It's not an easy ride but it is the only worthwhile one. I found that i just had to be polite with all the people even when they were rude but then to do what I wanted as it was my life and not theirs.

I've lived overseas in a number of countries. I found benefit in all my experiences. But i think as someone else on this site said that Iraq is really in the middle of a lot violence in these days. Someone I knew some years ago said that they had property in Karbala and had been going there for 20 years. Yet the last I heard from them, when they went through the check points, the officials there were reading their passport upside down and got angry and there were all kinds of problems! There are a lot of desperate, pent up people there looking to let out their frustration on people. A friend of mine who was born and rised there just left because their normally quiet peaceful city has been under terror.

But still, i share that idea... so what if we die on our way to visit our Imam a.s. or any kind of hijra.

At the same time, we should take reasonable caution and make good decisions in life.

 

If it were me, i would ask Allah to guide me to the best decision and to turn my heart towards that which He approves of and that which is good for my dunya and my akhirat... and to give you clear guidance about the decision. Ask people their ideas about this and see what advice you get... it may help you make a decision.

And doing an isticarra - i recommend the istacarra by beads taught to us by al hujjat min ahle mohammad a.s. and ask Allah - the one who knows everything about the situation and what is best.

Then, be certain to follow the isticarra... everyone i've heard tht goes against an isticarra has had some really bad outcomes.... its like saying "Let me ask Allah.. and then when He gives us the answer, we decide that we know better... it's like asking for trouble.

 

There's a nice litte orange book you can find on some of the sites entitled 'isticara'.  Basically this isticarra is to put the quesiton in your mind and heart, make the intention, ask Allah for His guidance and recite 'Allah humma salle ahle Mohammad an wa ahle Mohammad' three times, then holding the prayer bgeads in your left hand, take your right hand, and put your fingers on a prayer bead and move towards the end of the chain of beads by moving them two by two until you get to the end.  If there is one bead left, the answer is yes, this is a good thing to do and if it is two, the answer is no, it is not good!

 

Having lived in the states and overseas, i'm so happy i lived overseas and at the same time, i got enlightenment about the Haqq of Qur'an and again later about Ahlu Bayt a.s. right in my own city.

[MusaL]

Alhamdulillah.

Shukran Magma for sharing Ammars words. He is a speaker I tend to listen a lot 'cause he makes always sense and opens up the matters the way that I always understand him.

I still have to read more about the fiqh concerning the hijra, but Alhamdulillah I now know where and what to look for.

IloveImamHussein: Shukran brother, I will remeber this in my prayers and may Allah swt be with you tooalways insha'Allah.

~Rose~

Shukran for your niyat, but I know the governmet is corrupt and that many people only look like muslims, but are not really muslims. But compared to a situation where I am now, that is an improvement.

I have skills when it comes to what a person can do with their hands and brain. I'm a clever kid if you will, and I have studied here in Finland. I have papers from highschool, I am an undergraduate, and I have also papers from a vocational school. I recently graduated as a car mechanic with the best possible papers, and it's not only the papers but I know how to fix cars.

Also I have connections to Al-Hussainis so I wouldn't be there alone. As I mentioned above, I have planned this whole living there- thing with my friend who I'm going to be there with.

Anyway I appreciate for your help and insha'Allah I'll find my way there :)

[:Sami II]

(salam) 

 

Welcome and :Mubarak to you on finding the truth .

Like many reverts , you have a sense of awareness that many western raised :Shias have lost .

Most :Shias living in the west have got used to the "sitting on the pole syndrome".

It is very common amongst people who give into the illusion of an easy life and forget their origins and purpose.

You have not this problem , and you have a calling by the sounds of it.

Go and seek it , be close to our beloved :Ahylul-Bayt (as) .

Perhaps consider Iran too .

Society in the west will get worse and worse , and eventually make what's happening in Iraq look a teddy bears picnic.

The great thing about places like Iraq is that you can live like a true Human by defending yourself and seeing the enemy when you're under attack.

In the west , the game is checkmated before you begin .

All your freedoms are being stripped , and the enemy cannot be sighted as it hides behind a powerful bureaucracy.

The west is great for those that are asleep or love to sleep , you have awakened so run.

As for your parents , save yourself first my dear brother and by doing this you will help them in the long run.

Be one of the 313 , so you may ask the :Imam (as) directly on matters regarding your parents.

My :Duas are with you .

ws

 

[EthidiumIodide]

Salam,

 

Congrats on your reversion.

 

I think Finland is a beautiful country, along with other Scandivanian countries :)

 

Being Muslim does not mean you deny the theory of evolution, just saying.

 

(wasalam)

[PeaceLoving]

 I'd want to move to Iraq. 

 

Brother

 

Salam Alaekum

 

If you decide to live in Iraq,  please do NOT relinquish your Finnish passport at any time.

 

Best wishes  

[Asr]

I would reccomend you go to iran as opposed to iraq; as a student initially at least....in qum or mashad; you can experience the spiritual awareness and gain the knowledge you wish; financial support and accomodation is there if you need it.

There are many students with young families living there for decades. The schools are very good islamically and academically; and it is a sort of international hub; youll find students from all over and of similiar (revert or western) background that you can bond with.

You will not find the same security/ good islamic schools; and family friendly support in iraq; and i would def not advise it in the current situation.

As for non believing parents; you are not required to obey them in matters pertaining to islam. That is your decision to make.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Asr

[PeaceLoving]

I would recommend you go to Iran as opposed to Iraq; as a student initially at least....in Qum or Mashad; you can experience the spiritual awareness and gain the knowledge you wish; financial support and accommodation is there if you need it.

 

 

Yes, I agree

 

As for non believing parents; you are not required to obey them in matters pertaining to Islam. That is your decision to make.

 

But he is required to love them, honor them  and be kind to them, whatever or whoever they may be

[TheLoneSoldier]

Just my two cents but you've converted religions bot cultures. It may be hard living in Finland but I doubt it that you would like Iraq, going by the experience of even the most pious Iraqis I know.

If you can live in Finland and maintain your religious stance and values and uphold what it is to be a Shia then that would show you are a strong individual and you would please God. You may even positively influence those around you. It may not be right away but in due time you may notice people come to you in need of guidance or advice. They maybe want to do as you do. You can't guide them to the right path.

[Amina]

Assalamu aleykum, brother Musa, and welcome to Islam and the followers of Rasool (s.a.a.s.) and Ahlulbayt (a.s.)!

 

You had many replies about Iraq, Finnland etc, but only one or two about your question concerning parents who are non-believers.

I thought I should say a couple of things, as I had the same problem for many, many years. Brought up in islam-hating east european country (and I mean REALLY hating, due to some historic issues), I met my husband-to-be and converted as a 16-year-old. My mother discovered it about 6 months later, and as my dad had already died some time ago, she took it very badly and thought that it was some temporary madness, nothing that a good beating up couldn't solve. So I was beaten up regularly, locked up in my room for days, given only pork to eat, followed as I went to school and so on... My family rejected me, I was called an "Arab [Edited Out]", they spat me in the face and did everything they could to get my husband to be expelled from the country. I struggled and prayed, and was helped secretly by my husbands friends, who formed a real "secret society" and were taking turns to slip me short messages from him. After two years of torture, we eloped to the Middle East and stayed there for 5 years. Due to extreme poverty and a death of our first baby, we then went to live in western Europe. I reestablished contact with my mother and have seen her a couple of times since when she came to visit us. She even learned to love and appreciate my husband in the end, but never accepted my conversion to Islam.

The rest of the family did the same - some of them consider me a Christian even now, although I never deceived anyone about my faith. As it is a hotly debated topic in this family for decades, here is what I can say I learned from all this:

 

I think you should show respect to your parents, always and at any time - not only because they are who they are, but also because you represent your new faith in their eyes, and should never forget that. They see Islam through you, and you are the ambassador that represents Allah te'ala and his religion, so they should see it in the best possible manner.

 

Don't let them make you lose your temper and your patience; if necessary, leave the room if you feel that you are about to lose control, perform the ablution (it cools your temper, as the famous hadeeth says), pray a short dua, breathe deep and remember how long it took the prophets of the past to convince their peoples...

 

Another thing - don't let them ridicule your faith; show them without doubt that you want the conversation to stay respectful, and show them you mean it. After you've left the conversation three or four times, they'll see that you are serious about that and that'll teach them to respect the boundaries.

 

And the last thing, do what your faith tells you to, and be firm about it. Our priority is Allah te'ala, and only then our parents. But keep the door always open, at least a tiny bit, so they know you still love them. And, of course, pray for them! Prayers open the gates that we humans sometimes don't even know exist. 

 

I wish you all the happiness and tawfiq, and that you may in sha Allah te'ala find the right place to live and be happy.

 

Kindest regards, Amina 

[ultra]

How you found islam?

[tearingmyhairout]

first...

 

ur living at home with ur parents?

 

try to focus on being independent first. u will feel better on your own.

 

second, take a vacation sometime to a warm climate, u will also feel better.

 

the answer isnt to go to a wartorn country. iraq is a mess socially and politically. what will happen if u get sick? you cannot find basic western medicine (beyond normal medicine for everyday things) in iraq (Baghdad), much less a smaller city. people have died to escape that place with their families, u should respect it. iraq also left behind very few good people. it is a bad place socially, where only the rough have survived. and, they are not good.

 

if u go there when ur not married, it will be harder because u will wanna have mutah with everything that moves. but, how can u have mutah when u live with ur friend's family? u will be miserable. life in iraq isn't like ur idealized "al-kafi."

 

ur dissatisfaction with finland in based on your new experience in islam, and ur dissatisfaction with what u perceive to be islamic morality versus what u find in ur environment. but, in time, you will come to see it as a good place, and forget this ideological thinking. u will live your life normally, and have more tolerance and normal expectations.

 

i would not move to iraq. if u wanna go, visit for 2-3 weeks....i think u will find this can relieve ur desire to travel to the middle east.

 

most importantly, u will come to a more mature understanding of shia islam, and be happy in your home country. its ur home after all. 

 

u can learn some good things through these experiences.

[Gypsy]

Iraq is a failed state. Everyone is trying to get out from it and now you are planning to go there? What's wrong with you?!

 

You need to be a better Muslim by valuing your parents more (even though they are not Muslim). If they are atheist then let them be, you shouldn't look down on them because of their belief or lack of belief. It's not your job to guide anyone to Islam. Allah swt will guide anyone whom HE wishes. Your only mission in life as their son is to love, respect and obey them as long as they don't forces you into a sinful lifestyle.

 

Also, from your line of thinking, I think you parents are right to think that you are just going through a temporary phase and that you are now emotionally unstable. While it is admirable that you became a Muslim but you need to be more tolerant and understanding towards people and community that are very different from you (in religion or culture). 

Edited March 2, 2014 by Gypsy

[hasanhh]

MusaL:

 

(salam)

 

I finally read your post. Your comment (near the end) about "tired" is partially correct. People of all ages start to slow down as the day wears on.

 

But in the US, people have so many different activities within one family that they are not all present to eat together.

 

A lot of these problems comes from this.

 

What I have noticed, is that in my time, I could talk to and understand my grandparents and the old people in town. But now, if they are under 30, I do not know what the heck they are talking about.