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undiscovered01

Sunni Vs Shia

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What i hate about Salafis/Wahabis is that they deceive and terrify the public at large against pure Shia faith because they know that if they will not stop the people from struggling for truth they will be "deviated" from their so called right path. They cut past only without looking into the things and without seeing the pretext etc. Like you will see in every forum that they pasted 1. Allah Speaks Lie (Asul e Kafi). Funny thing is that a person asked brother i shall be thankful to you if you paste the scanned page. The poster was silent later. I feel sorry about people like the OP of this thread who have no brain to ponder and are easily deceived by Shaitan.

AOOZUBILLAHI MINASH SHAITANIR RAJEEM

 

brother

 

for the longest time i believed the shia were just different because they have excessive love for the grandson of prophet saw. but now it is visible why they are different because they call on other than Allah swt. which is indeed shirk. as quran clearly says.

 

And invoke not besides Allah any that will neither profit you nor hurt you, but if (in case) you did so, you shall certainly be one of the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong­doers). And if Allah touches you with hurt, there is none who can remove it but He; and if He intends any good for you, there is none who can repel His Favour which He causes it to reach whomsoever of His slaves He will. And He is the Oft­-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

(10:106, 107)

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(bismillah)

(salam)

 

Since our brother is adamant to ponder on Quranic verses, then i would like him to throw some light on the following verses as well ( i will just post arabic and lets see how he translate and then give his understanding):-

 

1.  يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَابْتَغُوا إِلَيْهِ الْوَسِيلَةَ وَجَاهِدُوا فِي سَبِيلِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ

 

2.  قُلْ مَا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ مِنْ أَجْرٍ إِلَّا مَنْ شَاءَ أَنْ يَتَّخِذَ إِلَىٰ رَبِّهِ سَبِيلًا

 

3.     وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا رَحْمَةً لِلْعَالَمِينَ

 

4.    يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ ۖ فَإِنْ تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلً

 

5.    وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ رَسُولٍ إِلَّا لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۚ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذْ ظَلَمُوا أَنْفُسَهُمْ جَاءُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُوا اللَّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُوا اللَّهَ تَوَّابًا رَحِيمًا

 

6.    اسْتَغْفِرْ لَهُمْ أَوْ لَا تَسْتَغْفِرْ لَهُمْ إِنْ تَسْتَغْفِرْ لَهُمْ سَبْعِينَ مَرَّةً فَلَنْ يَغْفِرَ اللَّهُ لَهُمْ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ كَفَرُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الْفَاسِقِينَ

 

7.    وَلَا تَنْفَعُ الشَّفَاعَةُ عِنْدَهُ إِلَّا لِمَنْ أَذِنَ لَهُ ۚ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا فُزِّعَ عَنْ قُلُوبِهِمْ قَالُوا مَاذَا قَالَ رَبُّكُمْ ۖ قَالُوا الْحَقَّ ۖ وَهُوَ الْعَلِيُّ الْكَبِيرُ

 

8.  وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَنْ يَشْرِي نَفْسَهُ ابْتِغَاءَ مَرْضَاتِ اللَّهِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ رَءُوفٌ بِالْعِبَادِ

 

9.  فِي بُيُوتٍ أَذِنَ اللَّهُ أَنْ تُرْفَعَ وَيُذْكَرَ فِيهَا اسْمُهُ يُسَبِّحُ لَهُ فِيهَا بِالْغُدُوِّ وَالْآصَالِ

 

10.  يَوْمَئِذٍ لَا تَنْفَعُ الشَّفَاعَةُ إِلَّا مَنْ أَذِنَ لَهُ الرَّحْمَٰنُ وَرَضِيَ لَهُ قَوْلً

 

I hope 10 verses are enough so far lets seek response on them and then more will be shared.

 

Jazak Allah

:)

 

brother how about you share with me your interpratation and i will answer you.

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What i hate about Salafis/Wahabis is that they deceive and terrify the public at large against pure Shia faith because they know that if they will not stop the people from struggling for truth they will be "deviated" from their so called right path. They cut past only without looking into the things and without seeing the pretext etc. Like you will see in every forum that they pasted 1. Allah Speaks Lie (Asul e Kafi). Funny thing is that a person asked brother i shall be thankful to you if you paste the scanned page. The poster was silent later. I feel sorry about people like the OP of this thread who have no brain to ponder and are easily deceived by Shaitan.

INALHAMDA LILAHI NAHMUDUHU WA NASTEENUHU WA NASTAGH FIRHU WA NAZOOBILLAHI MIN SHURIRI ANFOOSINA WA MIN SAYIAATI AAMALINA MEIN YAHDIHIL LAHU FALA MUDILALA MEIN YUD IL FALA HADIYA LAH WA ASHADUAN LA ILAHA ILLALLAH WAHDUHU LA SHARIKA LAH WA ASHADU ANA MUHAMMADAN ABDHU WA RASOOLAHU

 

brother

my message is not "shia" it is for muslims to remind them regarding tawheed who are blindly following their imams and being victims of false idols through pious people. as Allah swt says in Quran

 

 

"And who is more astray than one who calls (invokes) besides Allah, such as will not answer him till the Day of Resurrection; and who are (even) unaware of their calls (invocations) to them? And when mankind are gathered (on the Day of Resurrection), they (false deities) will become enemies for them and will deny their worshipping."

(46: 5,6)

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What does the Quran say about the Shia & their connection with the Anti-Christ?

The following 2 consecutive verses 158- 159  of Sura Al-Anaam (Chapter 6) provide additional clear evidence that connects the Shia to the Dajjal (Anti-Christ):

 

158. هَلْ يَنظُرُونَ إِلاَّ أَن تَأْتِيهُمُ الْمَلَآئِكَةُ أَوْ يَأْتِيَ رَبُّكَ أَوْ يَأْتِيَ بَعْضُ آيَاتِ رَبِّكَ يَوْمَ يَأْتِي بَعْضُ آيَاتِ رَبِّكَ لاَ يَنفَعُ نَفْسًا إِيمَانُهَا لَمْ تَكُنْ آمَنَتْ مِن قَبْلُ أَوْ كَسَبَتْ فِي إِيمَانِهَا خَيْرًا قُلِ انتَظِرُواْ إِنَّا مُنتَظِرُونَ 158. They are just waiting for the angels (of torment) to reach them, or your Lord to come (Himself), or some (exclusive) Signs of your Lord to come (perceptibly. Tell them:) ‘The Day when some Signs of your Lord will come (in such an evident way, then accepting) the belief will not benefit someone who had not believed before, or did not earn any good (in the state of) having believed.’ Say: ‘Wait; we (too) are waiting.’ 159. إِنَّ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُواْ دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُواْ شِيَعًا لَّسْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ إِنَّمَا أَمْرُهُمْ إِلَى اللّهِ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُواْ يَفْعَلُونَ 159. Those who have caused schism (splitting or division) in their religion and they have become Shia (sects or groups), you (Prophet Mohammad صلى الله عليه وسلم ) are not one of them in any way. Their case (for judgment & punishment) is up to Allah. Then, He (Allah) will tell (confront) them about what they used to do.

Verse 158 of Chapter 6 is telling us that once Certain Signs of God occur, believing in God will no longer benefit because God will no longer accept repentance.

The following Hadith specifies these Certain Signs. One of these signs is the Dajjal (Anti-Christ):

ثلاث إذا خرجن لم ينفع { نفسا إيمانها لم تكن آمنت من قبل } الآية الدجال ، والدابة ، وطلوع الشمس من المغرب – أو من مغربها

الراوي: أبو هريرة المحدث: الألباني - المصدر: صحيح الترمذي

 

Abu Huraira said: "Three things that once they occur, the soul will not benefit from believing (in God) if it did not believe before ... (verse 6:158): the Dajjal (Anti-Christ), Daabba (Beast), and Sun rise from the West." (Tirmizi and Al-Albani)

So, we have verse 158 that refers indirectly to the Dajjal and the next verse 159 warns us about the Shia. It seems that God, in these verse, is making a connection between the Shia and the Anti-Christ. For more details and evidence regarding connection between the Shia and the Anti-Christ, click here.

 

More verses, God warns us about Shia:

shia2.gif

In this verse, God warns us that he can let us become Shiites as a great punishment to us.

"Say: "He has power to send calamities on you, from above you or below your feet, or let you split into Shia (sects), giving you a taste of mutual vengeance - each from the other." See how We explain the Signs by various (symbols); that they may understand." (6:65)

cbar.gif

shia3.gif

"
Turning in repentance toward Him (
Allah
), and fear Him: establish regular prayers, and be not you from among the polytheists.
Those who have caused schism (splitting or division) in their religion and they have become Shia (sects or groups).
  Each party rejoicing with what they have!
" (30: 31-32)

In this verse, God associates the word Shiites with polytheist pagans who join gods with Allah!

cbar.gif

shia4.gif

"
Then shall We certainly drag out from every Shia (sect) all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against (
Allah
) Most Gracious.
" (Qur'an Mariam:69)

In this verse, God associates the word Shiites with those who are worst in obstinate rebellion against Him

 

What makes you think that the word 'Shia' in the Quran refers to us Shias?

 

it just doesn't.

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What i hate about Salafis/Wahabis is that they deceive and terrify the public at large against pure Shia faith because they know that if they will not stop the people from struggling for truth they will be "deviated" from their so called right path. They cut past only without looking into the things and without seeing the pretext etc. Like you will see in every forum that they pasted 1. Allah Speaks Lie (Asul e Kafi). Funny thing is that a person asked brother i shall be thankful to you if you paste the scanned page. The poster was silent later. I feel sorry about people like the OP of this thread who have no brain to ponder and are easily deceived by Shaitan.

 

How do the Salafis deceive? They quote from your book and they provide the scans. It is the Shia who use taqqiya to deceive the layman (like Kamal al Haidari have admitted)

 

Allah goes to his Ziyarat every Friday evening, with the angels, prophets, successors. ( Kamil al ziyarat pg 113 book can be found here

xbrjo.png

 
O Allah, curse those who belied Your messengers, destroyed Your Kaaba, 
distorted Your Book, shed the blood of the family of Your Prophet, caused mischief in Your land and disgraced Your 
servants.(Kamil al ziyarat pg 185book can be found here)
 
Imam Sadiq (a.s.) was asked about one  who omits the Ziyarat of Imam Husain (a.s.) for no reason. 
Imam (a.s.) said, “He will be from the folks of Hell.”(Kamil al ziyarat pg 178 book can be found here)
 
One who repeatedly performs the Ziyarat of Imam Husain (a.s.) is recognized by us as our lover and he will be 
among the folks of Paradise, whereas the faith of one who does not perform the Ziyarat of Imam Husain (a.s.) is 
incompleteKamil al ziyarat pg 178 book can be found here)
 
 
Indeed when Imam Husain (a.s.) passed away, the seven heavens, the seven earths, everything within them, 
everything between them, everyone who moves in Paradise and in Hell from among the creation of our Lord and 
everything which can be seen and everything which cannot be seen, cried over Abi Abdullah (a.s.) except for three 
things. I asked, “May I be sacrificed on you, what are those three things?” 
Imam (a.s.) replied, “Basra, Damascus and the family of Uthman.” (Kamil al ziyarat pg 185-186 book can be found here)
 
 
vision does not perceive him, yet he perceives everything. anyone who likens him to his creatures, for example one who supposes that Allah has a face, hands and eyes, or says that he comes down to the lowest heaven, or that he will appear to the people of paradise like a moon, and so forth, he is as one who does not believe in Allah( Akaidul Imamiyah by Muhammad Rza Muzaffar p 22 scan:http://i41.tinypic.com/svrqwy.jpg
 
Some faces that Day shall be radiant  Looking at their Lord  75:22-23
 
The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said: ”When those deserving of Paradise would enter Paradise, the Blessed and the Exalted would ask: Do you wish Me to give you anything more? They would say: Hast Thou not brightened our faces? Hast Thou not made us enter Paradise and saved us from Fire? He (the narrator) said: He (Allah) would lift the veil, and of things given to them nothing would be dearer to them than the sight of their Lord, the Mighty and the Glorious. He then recited the verse: {For those who do good is the best reward and even more} “ [sahih Muslim]
 
Prophet Muhammad said ”You will see your Lord with your eyes.“ [sahih Bukhari]
 
”On the day of rising you will see your Lord as you see this (moon). You will not be harmed by seeing Him.“ [sahih Bukhari]
 
Ibn Hurairah –radiyallahu anhu- narrated that the people asked: “Messenger of Allah, will we see our Lord on the Day of Judgement?” The Prophet –sallallahu alayhi wa sallam- said, ”Do you dispute with one another about seeing the moon on the night of the full moon?“They said: “No, Messenger of Allah.”He asked: ”Do you dispute with one another about seeing the sun when there are no clouds?“ They answered: “No, Messenger of Allah.”He said: ”You will see Him like that.“ [sahih al Bukhari]
---
 
Also not to forget the stories of the raining blood.
 
Imam Sajjad (a.s.) said, “Heavens have not wept over anyone since the day they were created, 
except for Yahya bin Zakariya (a.s.) and Husain bin Ali (a.s.).” I asked, “What was the weeping of the heavens?” Imam (a.s.) replied, “If you had put a cloth in the wind,you’d have seen something like red mist of blood on it.” (Kamil al ziyarat pg 94 book can be found here)
 
I would love to see how the salafis take these narrations and quoations out of context.

 

 

 

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AOOZUBILLAHI MINASH SHAITANIR RAJEEM

 

brother

 

for the longest time i believed the shia were just different because they have excessive love for the grandson of prophet saw. but now it is visible why they are different because they call on other than Allah swt. which is indeed shirk. as quran clearly says.

 

And invoke not besides Allah any that will neither profit you nor hurt you, but if (in case) you did so, you shall certainly be one of the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong­doers). And if Allah touches you with hurt, there is none who can remove it but He; and if He intends any good for you, there is none who can repel His Favour which He causes it to reach whomsoever of His slaves He will. And He is the Oft­-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

(10:106, 107)

NOTE EMPHASIS on Bold underlined sentence,that was my understanding about Shia.

 

But, now as old as I am, I have to seek example, guidance, good attitude, good speak/word, good act from somebody in order to become, as high as I can, good human to avoid the punishment in the RECKONING DAY, JUDGEMENT DAY.

Human seek into religions (Hindus, Budhist, Kong Hu Cu, Zoroaster, Christians, Yahudi, Islam etc) or other of their sects. For me after reading the ahlul bayt as history, I surrender to them (Nabi Muhammad SAW and his progeny/itrah) because I found many answer on many of those blue words above in their riwayat/history that was and is still my personal wonder/quest.

 

In my simple mind, the religion is how to become good human in this life and got ridha from Allah SWT, so that my life is useful and give benefit to other human being. So seeking/pursuing those blue words above is a never end learning. Also, since Nabi Muhammad SAW give his last message/will about two weighty things to his ummah, i.e. following and clinging steadfastly to Al Qur'an and his sunnah in order not to get ashtray, and not doom to hell, my logic tells me that the example, the guidance, the good attitude, the good speak/word, and the good act must exist and come from his progeny since they are the closest relative to Nabi Muhammad SAW, the most always see Nabi Muhammad SAW’s example, guidance, good attitude, good speak/word, good act 24 hours/day, 7 days/week, etc and even get the rhytm, spirit of goodness in example, guidance, good attitude, good speak/word, good act in their mother’s womb.

 

So let us see their history, riwayat etc. Please inform me what is the good book about their history and riwayat, while I can also tell some book. So your statement of excessive love for the grandson of Nabi Muhammad SAW is not hindering, hampering, holding you back to seeking example, guidance, good attitude, good speak/word, good act from Nabi Muhammad’s progeny (because this seeking is one of an act of loving to Nabi Muhammad SAW and his progeny/itrah). This way is one of many roads for us to follow Shiah Nabi Muhammad SAW/ Imam Ali ibn Abi Thalib/his beloved daughter Fathimah al Zahra ibn Muhammad and their descendant/progeny/itrah.

 

So let us learn.

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SubhanAllah.

 

 

haha! imam Ali is (ra) but Imam Shafi is (as)?  No, thank you. 

 

 

Exactly. And he/she wrote Hadrat Ali (as) instead of Imam Ali (as)

 

You should focus on the brothers argument instead of small details like

 

"OMGGG HE ONLY SAID RA FOR ALI BUT AS FOR SHAFI3I??!??!?!?!?!"

 

omg.jpeg

 

I am sure he just made a mistake

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NOTE EMPHASIS on Bold underlined sentence,that was my understanding about Shia.

 

But, now as old as I am, I have to seek example, guidance, good attitude, good speak/word, good act from somebody in order to become, as high as I can, good human to avoid the punishment in the RECKONING DAY, JUDGEMENT DAY.

Human seek into religions (Hindus, Budhist, Kong Hu Cu, Zoroaster, Christians, Yahudi, Islam etc) or other of their sects. For me after reading the ahlul bayt as history, I surrender to them (Nabi Muhammad SAW and his progeny/itrah) because I found many answer on many of those blue words above in their riwayat/history that was and is still my personal wonder/quest.

 

In my simple mind, the religion is how to become good human in this life and got ridha from Allah SWT, so that my life is useful and give benefit to other human being. So seeking/pursuing those blue words above is a never end learning. Also, since Nabi Muhammad SAW give his last message/will about two weighty things to his ummah, i.e. following and clinging steadfastly to Al Qur'an and his sunnah in order not to get ashtray, and not doom to hell, my logic tells me that the example, the guidance, the good attitude, the good speak/word, and the good act must exist and come from his progeny since they are the closest relative to Nabi Muhammad SAW, the most always see Nabi Muhammad SAW’s example, guidance, good attitude, good speak/word, good act 24 hours/day, 7 days/week, etc and even get the rhytm, spirit of goodness in example, guidance, good attitude, good speak/word, good act in their mother’s womb.

 

So let us see their history, riwayat etc. Please inform me what is the good book about their history and riwayat, while I can also tell some book. So your statement of excessive love for the grandson of Nabi Muhammad SAW is not hindering, hampering, holding you back to seeking example, guidance, good attitude, good speak/word, good act from Nabi Muhammad’s progeny (because this seeking is one of an act of loving to Nabi Muhammad SAW and his progeny/itrah). This way is one of many roads for us to follow Shiah Nabi Muhammad SAW/ Imam Ali ibn Abi Thalib/his beloved daughter Fathimah al Zahra ibn Muhammad and their descendant/progeny/itrah.

 

So let us learn.

INALHAMDA LILAHI NAHMUDUHU WA NASTEENUHU WA NASTAGH FIRHU WA NAZOOBILLAHI MIN SHURIRI ANFOOSINA WA MIN SAYIAATI AAMALINA MEIN YAHDIHIL LAHU FALA MUDILALA MEIN YUD IL FALA HADIYA LAH WA ASHADUAN LA ILAHA ILLALLAH WAHDUHU LA SHARIKA LAH WA ASHADU ANA MUHAMMADAN ABDHU WA RASOOLAHU

 

brother

i have no problem with excessive love for aaale Muhammad Saw. but this love should not exceed the love for Allah swt. i myself try to send durood/blessings for aale Muhammad saw and ask to bless to them just like He swt blessed aale Ibrahim AS. but this love SHOULD be inferior to my love for my Creator, Allah The Magnificient.

 

and for the readers of this post i am not salfi/wahabi and i do not categorize in a sect, i consider my as the ummah of prophet saw and muslim. as there were no wahabi/salafi/ shia etc in the times of prophet saw. there were just momin, munafiq, ahley kitaab and mushrik.  

 

Secondly, read my precursor for every text which is called Khutbahtul Hajjah

 

MEIN YAHDIHIL LAHU FALA MUDILALA MEIN YUD IL FALA HADIYA LAH

 

"Whoever Allah swt guides cannot be astrayed, Whoever is astrayed by Allah swt cannot be guided"

 

therefore hidayah is in the hand of Allah and should not be based on progeny/itrah and indeed Allah swt is powerful over all. this should be our imaan.

 

now my question from you would be, if you have the best example available why would you want look at second best. therefore Prophet saw is the best of examples. This statement is in the Quran

 

Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes for (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much." (Quran: 33/21)

 

Now when Allah is saying this then why do we get in the disputes of those after him saw. we should learn about prophet saw before we do about any other of his progeny. there is a reason why Allah swt did not bless prophet saw with male progeny indeed Allah swt has power over everything and Most Wise. we should just remember Allah swt and follow the sunnah of prophet saw. as far as those after him we leave there matters/affairs to Allah swt as indeed He swt is The Best of Judges.

 

so my brothers in faith, follow prophet saw and call on no one except Allah swt, pray like he  saw did, fast like he saw did, give zakat like he saw did and perform hajj like he saw did. do these solely for the sake of Allah swt and no one else and try to please Him swt before we die as life is short.

 

may Allah swt guide us all.

 

 

 

Exactly. And he/she wrote Hadrat Ali (as) instead of Imam Ali (as)

i appoligize.

 

its a typo brother. :)

 

correction would be

 

Hadrat Ali RA(radhiAllah anho)

Imam Shafi RA(rehmatullah alehi)

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Shiism seems like a religion based on emotion and a 1,400 year old grudge.  All I've seen on this forum is people mocking dead men and women, and when you attempt to debate with them, they give analogies instead of factual points. I do defend Shia in other Sunni forums, because I Shia personally know are good people.  Speaking of the Sunni forums, they actually have adab and courtesy.  I have never seen them call people "dogs" or "pigs"  or things like "kill those dogs"  ...it shows a lot about a sect. 

 

What I'm still trying to fathom is:  Apparently Omar killed Ali or something like that...so Iran bans Sunni mosques.   But a Jew poisoned the Prophet, yet Iran allows Jewish synagogues.  strange. 

Edited by Kianofum

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How do the Salafis deceive? They quote from your book and they provide the scans. It is the Shia who use taqqiya to deceive the layman (like Kamal al Haidari have admitted)

 

Allah goes to his Ziyarat every Friday evening, with the angels, prophets, successors. ( Kamil al ziyarat pg 113 book can be found here

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O Allah, curse those who belied Your messengers, destroyed Your Kaaba, 
distorted Your Book, shed the blood of the family of Your Prophet, caused mischief in Your land and disgraced Your 
servants.(Kamil al ziyarat pg 185book can be found here)
 
Imam Sadiq (a.s.) was asked about one  who omits the Ziyarat of Imam Husain (a.s.) for no reason. 
Imam (a.s.) said, “He will be from the folks of Hell.”(Kamil al ziyarat pg 178 book can be found here)
 
One who repeatedly performs the Ziyarat of Imam Husain (a.s.) is recognized by us as our lover and he will be 
among the folks of Paradise, whereas the faith of one who does not perform the Ziyarat of Imam Husain (a.s.) is 
incompleteKamil al ziyarat pg 178 book can be found here)
 
 
Indeed when Imam Husain (a.s.) passed away, the seven heavens, the seven earths, everything within them, 
everything between them, everyone who moves in Paradise and in Hell from among the creation of our Lord and 
everything which can be seen and everything which cannot be seen, cried over Abi Abdullah (a.s.) except for three 
things. I asked, “May I be sacrificed on you, what are those three things?” 
Imam (a.s.) replied, “Basra, Damascus and the family of Uthman.” (Kamil al ziyarat pg 185-186 book can be found here)
 
 
vision does not perceive him, yet he perceives everything. anyone who likens him to his creatures, for example one who supposes that Allah has a face, hands and eyes, or says that he comes down to the lowest heaven, or that he will appear to the people of paradise like a moon, and so forth, he is as one who does not believe in Allah( Akaidul Imamiyah by Muhammad Rza Muzaffar p 22 scan:http://i41.tinypic.com/svrqwy.jpg
 
Some faces that Day shall be radiant  Looking at their Lord  75:22-23
 
The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said: ”When those deserving of Paradise would enter Paradise, the Blessed and the Exalted would ask: Do you wish Me to give you anything more? They would say: Hast Thou not brightened our faces? Hast Thou not made us enter Paradise and saved us from Fire? He (the narrator) said: He (Allah) would lift the veil, and of things given to them nothing would be dearer to them than the sight of their Lord, the Mighty and the Glorious. He then recited the verse: {For those who do good is the best reward and even more} “ [sahih Muslim]
 
Prophet Muhammad said ”You will see your Lord with your eyes.“ [sahih Bukhari]
 
”On the day of rising you will see your Lord as you see this (moon). You will not be harmed by seeing Him.“ [sahih Bukhari]
 
Ibn Hurairah –radiyallahu anhu- narrated that the people asked: “Messenger of Allah, will we see our Lord on the Day of Judgement?” The Prophet –sallallahu alayhi wa sallam- said, ”Do you dispute with one another about seeing the moon on the night of the full moon?“They said: “No, Messenger of Allah.”He asked: ”Do you dispute with one another about seeing the sun when there are no clouds?“ They answered: “No, Messenger of Allah.”He said: ”You will see Him like that.“ [sahih al Bukhari]
---
 
Also not to forget the stories of the raining blood.
 
Imam Sajjad (a.s.) said, “Heavens have not wept over anyone since the day they were created, 
except for Yahya bin Zakariya (a.s.) and Husain bin Ali (a.s.).” I asked, “What was the weeping of the heavens?” Imam (a.s.) replied, “If you had put a cloth in the wind,you’d have seen something like red mist of blood on it.” (Kamil al ziyarat pg 94 book can be found here)
 
I would love to see how the salafis take these narrations and quoations out of context.

 

 

 

So, your gripe is that a shia scholar claims: "..or says that he comes down to the lowest heaven, or that he will appear to the people of paradise like a moonand so forth, he is as one who does not believe in Allah.."

 

and since you have shown with proof that the ahlul-sunnah believe that Allah(SWT) will be seen, has a face, and other human-like features then the ahlul sunnah as a whole are kaffir according to the shia?

 

mmmmmMmmm...

 

Well arent the shia (rawafid) also kaffir according to the ahlul sunnah because we dont accept (reject) the Caliphate of the first 3:

 

 

 

 

Al-Qurtubi:

I say: It has been narrated in Sunnah through authentic narrations which their obvious form show that he (i.e. Aboo Bakr) is the successor after him (i.e. after the Prophet (saw)). And there is consensus about that and there remained no one in opposition, and whoever slanders his Caliphate he is condemned for his error and sin, but whether he becomes Kafir or not there is dispute about it, and the correct opinion is that he becomes Kafir.

Source: Al-Jami' Al-Ahkam Al-Qur'aan. Vol. 10, Pg. # 217.

 
Tafsir+Al-QurtubiVol10.jpg
 
Ibn Hajar Al-Haytami:

It was from this verse that Imam Malik in a report took his view that the Rawafid (i.e. Shi'a) who hate the Sahabah, are Kuffar (infidels). He said: "This is because the Sahaba enrage them, and whosoever is enraged by the Sahaba is a Kafir." Al-Shafi'i agreed with him (i.e. Malik) in his declaring them as Kuffar, and the majority of the Imams agreed with him (i.e. Malik).

Source: Al-Sawa'iq Al-Muhriqa. Pg. # 294.

Cover+Sawahiq+Al-Muhriqa1.jpg
1-2.jpg
 
Al-Qurtubi:
 
I (Qurtubi) say: Malik was most good in his statement, and was correct in his interpretation (of the verse). Whosoever criticizes any of them (i.e. the companions) or attacks him in his report, he has indeed refuted Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì the Lord of the Worlds, and has destroyed the Laws of Muslims.
 
Source: Al-Jami Al-Ahkam Al-Qur'aan. Vol. 19, Pg. # 347.
  
5-1.jpg
 
 
Ibn Hajar Al-Haytami:

In the Madh'hab of Abi Hanifa, whoever denies the Caliphate of Abi Bakr and Umar he is Kafir."

Source: Al-Sawa'iq Al-Muhriqah. Pg. # 359.

 
Sawahiq+Al-Muhriqa1.jpg
 
Al-Tahawi:

 

"If someone denies the leadership of Al-Siddique (Aboo Bakr) he is Kafir like the one who denied Al-Isra!"

Source: Hashiat Al-Tahawi ala Al-Maraaqi. Pg. # 198.

Cover+Hashiya+Al-Tahawi+Lil+Maraqi1.jpg
Hashiya+Al-Tahawi+Lil+Maraqi1.jpg

Allamah Nidhaam:

"Whoever denies the Imamate (leadership) of Abi Bakr Al-Siddique, he is Kafir and according to some scholars he is an innovator and is not Kafir, but the correct opinion is that he is Kafir and likewise is the one who denies the Caliphate of Umar according to the most correct opinions as also mentioned in Al-Zahiriyya."

Source: Al-Fatawa Al-Hindiyya. Vol. 2, Pg. # 286.

Cover+Fatawi+Al-HindiyyaVol2.jpg
Fatawi+Al-HindiyyaVol2.jpg

Ibn Al-Humam Al-Hanafi:

"If someone denies the Caliphate of Abi Bakr or Umar, he is Kafir."

Source: Fathul Qadir Li Al-Kamal. Vol. 1, Pg. # 360.

Cover+Fat%27hul+Qadir+lil+KamalVol1.jpg
Fat%27hul+Qadir+lil+KamalVol1.jpg

Ibn Najeem Al-Hanafi: 

"And whoever denies the Caliphate of Al-Siddique (i.e. Aboo Bakr), he is Kafir."

Source: Al-Bahr Al-Rahiq Sharh Kanz Al-Daqahiq. Vol. 1, Pg. # 611.

 
Cover+Al-Bahr+Al-RahiqVol1.jpg
Al-Bahr+Al-RahiqVol1.jpg
 
Muhammad Anwar Shah Al-Kashmiri Al-Hindi:

 

I say: "And the majority say that whoever denies the Caliphate of Sheikhayn (i.e. Aboo Bakr and Umar), he is Kafir."

Source: Ikfaar Al-Mulhideen Fi Dharuriyyat Al-Deen. Pg. # 51.

Cover+Ikfaar+Al-Mulhidin.jpg
Ikfaar+Al-Mulhidin.jpg
 
Salih b. Fawzan:
 
Whosoever is a hater of the companions is a Kafir (disbeliever).

Source: Al-Ijabat Al-Muhimah. Pg. # 210.

 
A-1.jpg
A-2.jpg
 
Al-Dhahabi:

The Imam Muhammad ibn Sahl said: I heard ibn Jarir (Al-Tabari) saying: "Whoever says that Aboo Bakr and Umar are not two Imams of guidance, he should be killed."

Source: Tadhkiratul Huffaz. Vol. 2, Pg. # 712.

  
Cover+TazKiratul+Hoffaz.jpg
Tazkiratul+HuffazVol2.jpg
 

Al-Sam'aani:

The Ummah have consensus on Al-Imamiyyah (i.e. Twelver Shi'ee) being disbelievers, because they believe that companions deviated and they deny their consensus and they attribute to them what is not true about them.

Source: Al-Ansaab. Vol. 3, Pg. # 188.

 
Al-AnsaabVol3.jpg

 

 

If you have made it this far down the post then please answer the following question:

 

Can you prove that rejecting the first 3 caliphates constitutes kufr from quranic verses (you salafis, afterall, self-proclaim yourselves to be experts in this, so it should be no problem!)

 

Please also answer:

 

1). Give me details of the "Shura" system that the prophet set-up in accordance with choosing a Caliph after his death (this is a important matter surely, there must of been some guidelines and neccessary qualifications to even be considered a candidate.). 2). Provide evidence that the shura system of election was followed justly and in great adherence to these "guidelines" by both Abu Bakr and Umar, in which it was not a. rushed b. every possible companion that could of been a candidate for the caliphate position, was present at the election and was part of the ballot.  Thank you.

 

Jazak Allah al khair

Edited by kbsquare

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I wish i was not having this technical issue of replying. This guy is hilarious. He comes on shia forum with the concept that Shias are mushrik. And his knowledge about shia tauheed is zero. Look at his reply when i asked him to get himself educated with Shia doctrines of Tauheed and he replied "Ya Ali protect me " ..lol

 

My friend.....Tauheed is like Numerical number 1 and Ya Ali a.s protect me is lke number 10 or 12. It is logically impossible for a person to get number 10 or 11 or 12 in his brain if he has no knowledge of number 1.

 

That's why i advise you again, go and buy shia books not from anti shia sources but for shia online stores or bookshops. Read the concept of Tauheed. Also bring me any sermon of Tauheed by your first caliph or 2nd or third.


Another emotional friend here.......Dude last time when i read in Quran, Mosques were house of Allah....me and Iranians don't understand what is sunni mosque. Sounds like some temple


My tech problem is when i hit reply quote, nothing happens, It stays as i haven't hit the tab

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I wish i was not having this technical issue of replying. This guy is hilarious. He comes on shia forum with the concept that Shias are mushrik. And his knowledge about shia tauheed is zero. Look at his reply when i asked him to get himself educated with Shia doctrines of Tauheed and he replied "Ya Ali protect me " ..lol

 

My friend.....Tauheed is like Numerical number 1 and Ya Ali a.s protect me is lke number 10 or 12. It is logically impossible for a person to get number 10 or 11 or 12 in his brain if he has no knowledge of number 1.

 

That's why i advise you again, go and buy shia books not from anti shia sources but for shia online stores or bookshops. Read the concept of Tauheed. Also bring me any sermon of Tauheed by your first caliph or 2nd or third.

Another emotional friend here.......Dude last time when i read in Quran, Mosques were house of Allah....me and Iranians don't understand what is sunni mosque. Sounds like some temple

My tech problem is when i hit reply quote, nothing happens, It stays as i haven't hit the tab

INALHAMDA LILAHI NAHMUDUHU WA NASTEENUHU WA NASTAGH FIRHU WA NAZOOBILLAHI MIN SHURIRI ANFOOSINA WA MIN SAYIAATI AAMALINA MEIN YAHDIHIL LAHU FALA MUDILALA MEIN YUD IL FALA HADIYA LAH WA ASHADUAN LA ILAHA ILLALLAH WAHDUHU LA SHARIKA LAH WA ASHADU ANA MUHAMMADAN ABDHU WA RASOOLAHU

 

brother

find the literal meaning of "tawheed". when you do then would not be talking about 2,3,4...10,12.

now on the bold and underlined it seems after another few hundred years you would be talking about number 360 just like mushrikeen in mekkah at the time of prophet saw.  

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Shiism seems like a religion based on emotion and a 1,400 year old grudge.  All I've seen on this forum is people mocking dead men and women, and when you attempt to debate with them, they give analogies instead of factual points. I do defend Shia in other Sunni forums, because I Shia personally know are good people.  Speaking of the Sunni forums, they actually have adab and courtesy.  I have never seen them call people "dogs" or "pigs"  or things like "kill those dogs"  ...it shows a lot about a sect. 

 

What I'm still trying to fathom is:  Apparently Omar killed Ali or something like that...so Iran bans Sunni mosques.   But a Jew poisoned the Prophet, yet Iran allows Jewish synagogues.  strange. 

 

 

1). you say: Shiism seems like a religion based on emotion and a 1,400 year old grudge.

 

 

Wait...hasnt the ahlul sunnah been passing off shiism as kufr because they reject the first 3?  For the past 1400 years?  Who is holding a grudge? 

 

2). All I've seen on this forum is people mocking dead men and women, and when you attempt to debate with them, they give analogies instead of factual points.

 

I gave you factual points above (^) without cursing/mocking any dead man or woman.  This renders whatever point you are trying to make, mute. Now, answer my questions (above, ^).  

 

3). Speaking of the Sunni forums, they actually have adab and courtesy.

 

Can you link me to these forums?  I would love to post something shia related on a sunni forum and not get called a "kaffir," "rafadi," and then get banned.  To date I have not found such a forum...

 

4). I have never seen them call people "dogs" or "pigs"  or things like "kill those dogs"  ...it shows a lot about a sect.

 

Words are words and people say certain things because they are ignorant or they just dont know how to act differently, this goes for both sects and all sects of any religion...your point is both invalid and mute.

 

Regardless, what do you say about a sect that exhibits these actions (not words, actions!!!)? (Warning very graphic)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_5P5xwAPw8

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-sER1XXzK4

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OIgDLrk0sg

 

6). What I'm still trying to fathom is:  Apparently Omar killed Ali or something like that...so Iran bans Sunni mosques.   But a Jew poisoned the Prophet, yet Iran allows Jewish synagogues.  strange. 

 

A statement like: "Apparently something like that..." should not come from someone who in the same sentence says "they give analogies instead of factual evidence."

 

Regardless, about your statement that iran bans sunni mosques: Watch this:

 

http://www.shiatv.net/view_video.php?viewkey=888c2b11c076a9a344e9

 

This does not only prove your ill-informed/ignorant statement that iran bans Sunni mosques is utterly false and is only self-opinionated but it also shows from the mouth of a SUNNI SHIEKH, that Iran funds the buidling of mosques for the ahlul sunnah, and then you look at shia minority countries like saudia, yemen, egypt, and bahrain...shame...

Edited by kbsquare

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Where you come from man......I am giving you example so you understand....let me put it in alphabetical way as I see you got some problem with numbering....

 

If a kid does not know the A B and C, then there is no way he can make a sentence. Tauheed is like A of our belief and Ya Ali a.s protect us comes way after it. So I am trying to ask you for the last time, please read shia doctrine of tauheed and talk with us over it. If you still don't get what I am trying to say then SALAMA


I am anxiously waiting for you to come here and discuss what wrong you see in shia doctrine of Tauheed and sermon of Abu Bakr or Umer or Uthman about tauheed as after Prophet s.a.w , they are your aslaaf.


For other readers, please correct me if I am speaking non sense because I think my demand is very proper from this guy but I wonder what is stopping him to look into the sect in a proper way. Please do comment on what I said so I re think if I am wrong somewhere.

Someone beautiful said, talk to idiot and feel like one, that's what I am suffering from at the moment.

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Where you come from man......I am giving you example so you understand....let me put it in alphabetical way as I see you got some problem with numbering....

 

If a kid does not know the A B and C, then there is no way he can make a sentence. Tauheed is like A of our belief and Ya Ali a.s protect us comes way after it. So I am trying to ask you for the last time, please read shia doctrine of tauheed and talk with us over it. If you still don't get what I am trying to say then SALAMA

I am anxiously waiting for you to come here and discuss what wrong you see in shia doctrine of Tauheed and sermon of Abu Bakr or Umer or Uthman about tauheed as after Prophet s.a.w , they are your aslaaf.

For other readers, please correct me if I am speaking non sense because I think my demand is very proper from this guy but I wonder what is stopping him to look into the sect in a proper way. Please do comment on what I said so I re think if I am wrong somewhere.

Someone beautiful said, talk to idiot and feel like one, that's what I am suffering from at the moment.

brother

 

for you :)

 

Liguistically, the word tawheed comes from the word wah-hada, which means to make something waahid (singular). Waahid is the opposite of two, three, etc., the opposite of plurality. So waahid is something that will continue to be singular and never become a partner of something else.

 

therefore nothing comes before and after Allah swt. we as muslims do not consider naoozubillah prophet saw after Allah swt. we consider him to be His slave and messenger. your concept of tawheed is completely wrong if you have 2,3 4 etc or even A B C etc. hence

 

ASHADU AN LA ILAHA ILLALLAH WAHDUHU LA SHARIKA LAHU WA ASHADU ANA MAHUMMADAN ABDUHU WA RASOOLUHU.

 

whoever is telling you about 2,3,4 or even A B C is misguiding people and is not preaching tawheed.

 

May Allah guide us all.

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Ya Khuda

 

 

From my side salama to this jahil.....but for others what I was trying to tell him was like this;

 

Parts of belief as in Quran;

1- Belief in Allah

2- Angels

3- Prophets

4-Books

5-Judgement day

 

Now if someone does not know the number 1 (Allah), then there is no way he can understand books or judgement day.


Similarly if person's belief of tauheed is like Iblees as his is , there is no way he can understand what Ya Ali a.s help means.

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Ya Khuda

 

 

From my side salama to this jahil.....but for others what I was trying to tell him was like this;

 

Parts of belief as in Quran;

1- Belief in Allah

2- Angels

3- Prophets

4-Books

5-Judgement day

 

Now if someone does not know the number 1 (Allah), then there is no way he can understand books or judgement day.

Similarly if person's belief of tauheed is like Iblees as his is , there is no way he can understand what Ya Ali a.s help means.

brother

 

May Allah guide you.

 

It's your belief which is associating partner with Allah swt through pious poeple like hadrat Ali RA and then you call my belief to be like iblees.

 

i can not stoop to your level and that is not the sunnah of prophet saw to judge others beliefs but i encourage you find the true meaning of tawheed and trust me when you are fimiliar with tawheed then you will never consider saying stuff like these

 

Ya Ali a.s protect us Naoozubillah.

 

i will make dua for you and all those who fallen into shirk and are being misled.

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Thank you and I do advise you, don't be afraid of reading shia doctrine of tauheed. You might find how your caliph umer distorted the tauheed and what you have is iblees's tauheed.

Brother

 

i have Muhammad's saw tawheed and if you consider naoobillah him as iblees. then as i said i will pray for you.

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ok now I am interested in learning your tauheed like a good student. Sir but I need to make sure if you took this tauheed of yours from Prophet s.a.w. So as it is very sensitive issue and I do not want to fall for shirk I need to make few things clear before I start taking lesson from you.

 

Please prove me that the tauheed you have is from Muhammad s.a.w.

 

thank you

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ok now I am interested in learning your tauheed like a good student. Sir but I need to make sure if you took this tauheed of yours from Prophet s.a.w. So as it is very sensitive issue and I do not want to fall for shirk I need to make few things clear before I start taking lesson from you.

 

Please prove me that the tauheed you have is from Muhammad s.a.w.

 

thank you

It's simple brother

 

LA ILAHA ILALLAH MUHAMDDUR RASOOLALLAH

 

dont call on anyone except Allah and follow the Sunnah of prophet saw.

 

this is prophet's saw message i dont understand why you have to complicate it.

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Remember, one day you will appear before Allah and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people”.

 

 

so prophet saw has said himself to follow quran and him not to be astrayed. so i will acknowledge this message from anyone as i do not know whats in his heart and indeed Allah knows what is in hearts and He is the best judge.

 

May Allah guide us all.

And sir please give me the sahih chain of narration for the red font text. See now i am good student even demanding things like people of your party. I hope you are willing to teach

It's simple brother

 

LA ILAHA ILALLAH MUHAMDDUR RASOOLALLAH

 

dont call on anyone except Allah and follow the Sunnah of prophet saw.

 

this is prophet's saw message i dont understand why you have to complicate it.

 

Teacher teacher , Shirk is Zulm Azeem. I am not complicating things but trying to save myself as much as i can. Bad time nowadays, very difficult to trust people and i dont even know you so i need to know that what you are teaching me is from Muhammad s.a.w. So please kindly prove it to me.

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And sir please give me the sahih chain of narration for the red font text. See now i am good student even demanding things like people of your party. I hope you are willing to teach

 

Teacher teacher , Shirk is Zulm Azeem. I am not complicating things but trying to save myself as much as i can. Bad time nowadays, very difficult to trust people and i dont even know you so i need to know that what you are teaching me is from Muhammad s.a.w. So please kindly prove it to me.

It is mentioned in almost all books of Hadith. Following Ahadith in Sahih Al-Bukhari refer to the sermon and quote part of it. See Al-Bukhari, Hadith 1623, 1626, 6361) Sahih of Imam Muslim also refers to this sermon in Hadith number 98. Imam al-Tirmidhi has mentioned this sermon in Hadith nos. 1628, 2046, 2085. Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal has given us the longest and perhaps the most complete version of this sermon in his Masnud, Hadith no. 19774.

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It is mentioned in almost all books of Hadith. Following Ahadith in Sahih Al-Bukhari refer to the sermon and quote part of it. See Al-Bukhari, Hadith 1623, 1626, 6361) Sahih of Imam Muslim also refers to this sermon in Hadith number 98. Imam al-Tirmidhi has mentioned this sermon in Hadith nos. 1628, 2046, 2085. Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal has given us the longest and perhaps the most complete version of this sermon in his Masnud, Hadith no. 19774.

 

But sir in these books there are many hadiths which say stuff like , Goat ate few parts of quran, Prophet s,a,w decided to commit suicide how can i trust if these hadiths are not weak but sahih!!!? Help please

Edited by Muntaqim Force

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It is mentioned in almost all books of Hadith. Following Ahadith in Sahih Al-Bukhari refer to the sermon and quote part of it. See Al-Bukhari, Hadith 1623, 1626, 6361) Sahih of Imam Muslim also refers to this sermon in Hadith number 98. Imam al-Tirmidhi has mentioned this sermon in Hadith nos. 1628, 2046, 2085. Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal has given us the longest and perhaps the most complete version of this sermon in his Masnud, Hadith no. 19774.

 

Teacher Teacher Sahih Muslim says;

 

أما بعد ألا أيها الناس فإنما أنا بشر يوشك أن يأتي رسول ربي فأجيب وأنا تارك فيكم ثقلين أولهما كتاب الله فيه الهدى والنور فخذوا بكتاب الله واستمسكوا به فحث على كتاب الله ورغب فيه ثم قال وأهل بيتي أذكركم الله في أهل بيتي أذكركم الله في أهل بيتي أذكركم الله في أهل بيتي

 

Is this fake teacher or you uttered a lie earlier.....i am soooo confused. Please clear these doubts because i dont want to be asked on the day of judgement from Allah that why you learnt tauheed from liars, oppressors, pedophiles, homosexuals. Please help

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So, your gripe is that a shia scholar claims: ".

Besides all the other things i showed from Kamil al Ziyarat (including sunnis entering hell for not visiting the shrine of Hussein). Sure.

 

 

 

and since you have shown with proof that the ahlul-sunnah believe

And that Rasul Allah said Allah will be seen like the moon (something backed by the Quran).

 

as a face, and other human-like features

 There is nothing like him and he is the all-hearer the allseer (Ash-Shura 42:11)

 

Ahlu Sunnah wa Jamah accepts the attributes of Allah as given in the Quran without tawil, tatil, takyeef or tashbeeh. 

 

Unlike the Rawafid who have adopted the theology of the mutazillites.

 

Well arent the shia (rawafid) also kaffir according to the ahlul sunnah because we dont accept (reject) the Caliphate of the first 3:

 

You rejecting the caliphate of the first 3 is in the bottom of the things why the Ulema of Ahlu Sunnah have declared you kuffar. You really shouldnt have gone trough all the trouble posting all those scans i would have answered yes but for different reasons.

Now there are differences of opinion about denying the imam of Abu Bakr and Umar. You could just have asked me that instead of wasting all the time on those scans. 

 

 

 

Can you prove that rejecting the first 3 caliphates constitutes kufr from quranic verses

What makes you think i hold that opinion :D And also i am not a hanafi.

 

 

 

 Give me details of the "Shura" system that the prophet set-up in accordance with choosing a Caliph after his death (this is a important matter surely, there must of been some guidelines and neccessary qualifications to even be considered a candidate.)

What makes you think he set up any system besides telling them to give bayha to a leader? let us examine what Prophet Muhammad said.

 

Sahih muslim Book 20, Nr 4486: It has been reported on the authority of Ibn ‘Umar who said: Hz umar(ra) said: God will doubtlessly protect His religion. If I do not nominate a successor (I have a precedent before me), for the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) did not nominate his successor. And if I nominate one (I have a precedent), for Abu Bakr did nominate. The narrator (Ibn Umar) said: By God. when he mentioned the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and Abu Bakr, I (at once) understood that he would not place anyone at a par with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and would not nominate anyone.

 

They said to caliph Ali: Will you not appoint a successor? he said: No, but I leave you as the apostle of Allah left you. [Haythami in Mujama’a al Zawa’ed 5/200. All narrators are trustworthy.]

 

They said to Ali: Will you not appoint a successor? He said: The Prophet PBUH did not appoint a successor so that I may do so, If Allah wishes that something good happens to you then he will make you all gather around the best (Man) amongst you just like he made them gather around the best Man (i.e Abu bakr) after their prophet PBUH. [Al haythami in Mujama’a al Zawa’ed 9/50. All narrators are that of the SAHIH except Ismail bin Abi al Harith and he is Trustworthy.]

 

 Sahi bukhari 5.728: Narrated `Abdullah bin `Abbas: `Ali bin Abu Talib came out of the house of Allah’s Apostle during his fatal illness. The people asked, “O Abu Hasan (i.e. `Ali)! How is the health of Allah’s Apostle this morning?” `Ali replied, “He has recovered with the Grace of Allah.” `Abbas bin `Abdul Muttalib held him by the hand and said to him, “In three days you, by Allah, will be ruled (by somebody else ), And by Allah, I feel that Allah’s Apostle will die from this ailment of his, for I know how the faces of the offspring of `Abdul Muttalib look at the time of their death. So let us go to Allah’s Apostle and ask him who will take over the Caliphate. If it is given to us we will know as to it, and if it is given to somebody else, we will inform him so that he may tell the new ruler to take care of us.” `Ali said, “By Allah, if we asked Allah’s Apostle for it (i.e. the Caliphate) and he denied it us, the people will never give it to us after that. And by Allah, I will not ask Allah’s Apostle for it.”

 

Note: From this hadith we can see no special system was set up by Rasul Allah or else Abbad would not have asked Ali to ask Rasul Allah who the next leader would be. And from the hadith above we see that Ali acknowledged the way Abu Bakr was choosen as legit and he said that if Allah(swt) wishes that something good happens the same thing would happen so not only was this good but it was a reward(something good) from Allah(swt) and this answers your second question.

 

As for the way the leader is decided is by baya and this is well known.

 

Sahih muslim 4.661: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number.” The people asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What do you order us (to do)?” He said,“Obey the one who will be given the pledge of allegiance first. Fulfil their (i.e. the Caliphs) rights, for Allah will ask them about (any shortcoming) in ruling those Allah has put under their guardianship.”

 

Not to forget

 

 

 

The Prophetic khilaafah will last for thirty years. Then Allaah will give the dominion to whomever He wills. Reported by Abu Dawud and al-Haakim. Saheeh al-Jaami’ as-Sagheer (no. 3257) declared Saheeh by Imaam al-Albaani (rahimahullaah).

 

Safeenah said (to me): Hold on (meaning, listen), the khilaafah of Abu Bakr (radiallaahu anhu) was two years, and [that of] Umar (radiallaahu anhu) was ten years, and [that of] Uthmaan (radiallaahu anhu) twelve years, and [that of] Alee (radiallaahu anhu) six years. Abu Dawud, Kitaab us-Sunnah, Chapter on the Khulafaa, (no. 4647)

 
 
And
 
Sahih Bukhari 3411 'Cling to the community of the Muslims and their leader.' I asked, 'And if there they have neither community nor leader?' He said, 'Then keep apart from all those sects, even if you bite the root of a tree until death takes you while you are like that.'"
 
So as we see these ahadith refute the Shia doctrine of Imama never stopping.

 

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Besides all the other things i showed from Kamil al Ziyarat (including sunnis entering hell for not visiting the shrine of Hussein). Sure.

 

And that Rasul Allah said Allah will be seen like the moon (something backed by the Quran).

 

 There is nothing like him and he is the all-hearer the allseer (Ash-Shura 42:11)

 

Ahlu Sunnah wa Jamah accepts the attributes of Allah as given in the Quran without tawil, tatil, takyeef or tashbeeh. 

 

Unlike the Rawafid who have adopted the theology of the mutazillites.

 

Well arent the shia (rawafid) also kaffir according to the ahlul sunnah because we dont accept (reject) the Caliphate of the first 3:

 

You rejecting the caliphate of the first 3 is in the bottom of the things why the Ulema of Ahlu Sunnah have declared you kuffar. You really shouldnt have gone trough all the trouble posting all those scans i would have answered yes but for different reasons.

Now there are differences of opinion about denying the imam of Abu Bakr and Umar. You could just have asked me that instead of wasting all the time on those scans. 

 

What makes you think i hold that opinion :D And also i am not a hanafi.

 

What makes you think he set up any system besides telling them to give bayha to a leader? let us examine what Prophet Muhammad said.

 

Sahih muslim Book 20, Nr 4486: It has been reported on the authority of Ibn ‘Umar who said: Hz umar(ra) said: God will doubtlessly protect His religion. If I do not nominate a successor (I have a precedent before me), for the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) did not nominate his successor. And if I nominate one (I have a precedent), for Abu Bakr did nominate. The narrator (Ibn Umar) said: By God. when he mentioned the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and Abu Bakr, I (at once) understood that he would not place anyone at a par with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and would not nominate anyone.

 

They said to caliph Ali: Will you not appoint a successor? he said: No, but I leave you as the apostle of Allah left you. [Haythami in Mujama’a al Zawa’ed 5/200. All narrators are trustworthy.]

 

They said to Ali: Will you not appoint a successor? He said: The Prophet PBUH did not appoint a successor so that I may do so, If Allah wishes that something good happens to you then he will make you all gather around the best (Man) amongst you just like he made them gather around the best Man (i.e Abu bakr) after their prophet PBUH. [Al haythami in Mujama’a al Zawa’ed 9/50. All narrators are that of the SAHIH except Ismail bin Abi al Harith and he is Trustworthy.]

 

 Sahi bukhari 5.728: Narrated `Abdullah bin `Abbas: `Ali bin Abu Talib came out of the house of Allah’s Apostle during his fatal illness. The people asked, “O Abu Hasan (i.e. `Ali)! How is the health of Allah’s Apostle this morning?” `Ali replied, “He has recovered with the Grace of Allah.” `Abbas bin `Abdul Muttalib held him by the hand and said to him, “In three days you, by Allah, will be ruled (by somebody else ), And by Allah, I feel that Allah’s Apostle will die from this ailment of his, for I know how the faces of the offspring of `Abdul Muttalib look at the time of their death. So let us go to Allah’s Apostle and ask him who will take over the Caliphate. If it is given to us we will know as to it, and if it is given to somebody else, we will inform him so that he may tell the new ruler to take care of us.” `Ali said, “By Allah, if we asked Allah’s Apostle for it (i.e. the Caliphate) and he denied it us, the people will never give it to us after that. And by Allah, I will not ask Allah’s Apostle for it.”

 

Note: From this hadith we can see no special system was set up by Rasul Allah or else Abbad would not have asked Ali to ask Rasul Allah who the next leader would be. And from the hadith above we see that Ali acknowledged the way Abu Bakr was choosen as legit and he said that if Allah(swt) wishes that something good happens the same thing would happen so not only was this good but it was a reward(something good) from Allah(swt) and this answers your second question.

 

As for the way the leader is decided is by baya and this is well known.

 

Sahih muslim 4.661: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number.” The people asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What do you order us (to do)?” He said,“Obey the one who will be given the pledge of allegiance first. Fulfil their (i.e. the Caliphs) rights, for Allah will ask them about (any shortcoming) in ruling those Allah has put under their guardianship.”

 

Not to forget

 

 

 

The Prophetic khilaafah will last for thirty years. Then Allaah will give the dominion to whomever He wills. Reported by Abu Dawud and al-Haakim. Saheeh al-Jaami’ as-Sagheer (no. 3257) declared Saheeh by Imaam al-Albaani (rahimahullaah).

 

Safeenah said (to me): Hold on (meaning, listen), the khilaafah of Abu Bakr (radiallaahu anhu) was two years, and [that of] Umar (radiallaahu anhu) was ten years, and [that of] Uthmaan (radiallaahu anhu) twelve years, and [that of] Alee (radiallaahu anhu) six years. Abu Dawud, Kitaab us-Sunnah, Chapter on the Khulafaa, (no. 4647)

 
 
And
 
Sahih Bukhari 3411 'Cling to the community of the Muslims and their leader.' I asked, 'And if there they have neither community nor leader?' He said, 'Then keep apart from all those sects, even if you bite the root of a tree until death takes you while you are like that.'"
 
So as we see these ahadith refute the Shia doctrine of Imama never stopping.

 

So know what, luckily we dont call our books "SAHIH". We reject any hadith contradicting quran no matter from which book it is. 

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I share similar sentiments as brother M Force. Brother undiscovered why don't you read Tawheed from our books first instead of calling shirk and what not.

Here is a book written by Hujjat ul Islam which is pretty basic and explains differences between Tawheed among Shias and Wahabis. Its a really quick read so have a look at it. Mind you, this Tawheed is not explained by an Ayatollah (you won't understand that), or an 'Arif (you won't grasp even a paragraph) or obviously an Imam (...). 

Make sure you read it before posting again.

http://www.al-islam.org/new-analysis-wahhabi-doctrines-muhammad-husayn-ibrahimi/tawhid-shiah-and-wahhabi-points-view

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So know what, luckily we dont call our books "SAHIH". We reject any hadith contradicting quran no matter from which book it is. 

I am afraid you dont much about your books. Since you have book by the title of Sahih Al Kafi.

 

 

This selection from Usul al-Kafi is based on the selection published by Muhammad Baqir Mahmudi, in Arabic under the title Sahih al-Kafi and with Persian translation with the title Guzideh-ye Kafi (vol.1, Markaze Intisharat-e `Ilmi wa -Farhangi: Tehran, 1363 H. Sh) All the ahadith selected here fall, according to his estimation, in the category of sahih traditions from the viewpoint of asnad. 

 
 

 

And in Sahih Al Kafi only 3328 narrations out of 16,000 were correct

 

 

And who do you mean by "we"? Your greatest scholars all belived the Quran was corrupted and had some very silly verses in it as Nuri Al Tabrassi said. 

 

 

I share similar sentiments as brother M Force. Brother undiscovered why don't you read Tawheed from our books first instead of calling shirk and what not.

Here is a book written by Hujjat ul Islam which is pretty basic and explains differences between Tawheed among Shias and Wahabis. Its a really quick read so have a look at it. Mind you, this Tawheed is not explained by an Ayatollah (you won't understand that), or an 'Arif (you won't grasp even a paragraph) or obviously an Imam (...). 

Make sure you read it before posting again.

http://www.al-islam.org/new-analysis-wahhabi-doctrines-muhammad-husayn-ibrahimi/tawhid-shiah-and-wahhabi-points-view

 

Let us what tawhid is according to Shia Scholars.

 

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1) Al-Kafi is compilation subject to recurring scientific inquiries and falsifications. There is no sahih since scientific endeavor is timeless.

2) All aggregated hadith books contain erroneous contents, for the very purpose of inquiry and research.

3) No Shi'a believes in the corruption of the Quran. The Quran was a book that was created before the creation of the world itself and was not subject to the 'good will' of the likes of Uthman.

4) Intercession is acceptable by an array of Islamic schools, including schools influenced by Shi'ism, i.e. Hanafi, Shafi'i etc.

5) Salafism and those who claim to follow the Salaf are outside of the Islamic fold. They are a Mufsidin, see following video:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiqauwA8ktU

Edited by Gainzz

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Op is right tho, we :Shia need to come back to true :Islam. It is not sunnism, but the :Islam practiced by the :Imams (as). (Ie. No dancing and mixing genders at weddings, wasting food/water, only being muslims in ramadan or muhuram, putting off marriage, etc.)

^A reminder to myself first before others of course.

May :Allah swt guide us all.

Edited by Baji

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