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Kianofum

May Imam Ali "protect You"?

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How can a dead man provide you protection? Only Allah gives protection.  Is this not shirk?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Iranian cleric describes the miracle birth of the Supreme Leader:

"..he [Mr. Zeinoldin], was in hospital and we had gone to visit him. Mr. Zeinoldin told his wife to tell us the story of Supreme Leader's birth. Mrs. Zeinoldin started telling me about it. One or two of my friends were chatting amongst themselves, Mr. Zeinoldin interrupted his wife and told those chatting amongst themselves to listen too. Mrs. Zeinoldin started again and said, 'The Supreme Leader has a half sister who now lives in Qom, her husband, Mr. Shamseldin was a senior cleric and used to throw lots to answer people's prayers in his office, and passed away recently but the Supreme Leader's half sister is still alive and lives in Qom.' Mrs. Zeinoldin then continued that she went to Qom and spoke to the Supreme Leader's step sister. This half sister told this to Mrs. Zeinoldin, 'Supreme Leader's father married again after his first wife passed away. Supreme Leader's father was Ayatollah Seyyed Javad Khamenei, he was the Friday Prayer leader in the Mosque of Turks in Mashad. When the Supreme Leader's mother became pregnant with our beloved leader [and went into labour], they told me[supreme Leader's half sister] to find a midwife, and so I went and fetched a midwife.' So now the Supreme Leader is about to be born, she carried on 'They threw us out of the room and the midwife was preparing for the birth of this new child, all of a sudden we heard the midwife scream, 'May Imam Ali protect you'. We opened the door and rushed inside and asked what happened? The midwife said when this baby, i.e our Supreme Leader, was about to exit his mother's body shouted 'Hail Ali', and the midwife said she shouted back 'may Imam Ali protect you' as soon as she heard the baby chant this,'

This is what she told us, this ended here, several nights ago, sorry several days ago, Mr. Zeinoldin was having a meeting with several of the Revolutionary Guards commanders who were retired or about to retire and they came to see me in my office, Mr. Zeinoldin was there with that group [RG Commanders], I asked Mr. Zeinoldin to retell the story the Supreme Leader's half sister had said about the Supreme Leader, and he turned to the Revolutionary Guards commanders and said Saeedi is asking me to tell that story. He told the story to the commanders, and the commander of the Ali-ibn-Abi Taleb division, General Mahdavi-Nejad, asked for [supreme Leader's half sister's address] so that they could record this tale. Oh ye Faithful, your Supreme Leader is someone who chanted Hail Ali the moment he was born and Hail Ali throughout his life, and you the Hezbollahi faithful must chant Hail Ali behind your Supreme Leader until eternity. This is the secret of our success, Oh dear Almighty, make us remain grateful of this gift from God, the Supreme Leader, keep us forever in the trenches of Imam Ali and the Supreme Leader...."

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Tawassul isn't a Sunni/Shi`a issue, there are people in both sects who practice it, and there are people in both sides who don't practice it.

 

Of those who support tawassul, their argument is that the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) have no power that is independent of Allah. They are simply an intercessor, and Allah may answer their prayers.

 

As for the rest of the video, which talks about Khomeini saying "Ya Ali!" on the way out of the womb, remember that many Wilayatis really live in their own world.

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"How can a dead man provide protection?"

 

لاَ تَحْسَبَنَّ الَّذِينَ قُتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ أَمْوَاتاً بَلْ أَحْيَاء عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ يُرْزَقُونَ

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How can a dead man provide you protection? Only Allah gives protection.  Is this not shirk?

 

And do not say about those who are killed in the way of Allah , "They are dead." Rather, they are alive, but you perceive [it] not. Al Baqarah 154

 

Bravo, you ask whether people Tawassul are mushrik but have no problem going against the Quran yourself. 

Edited by JimJam

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"How can a dead man provide protection?"

 

لاَ تَحْسَبَنَّ الَّذِينَ قُتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ أَمْوَاتاً بَلْ أَحْيَاء عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ يُرْزَقُونَ

(salam)

 

The verse doesn't mean they can help you. 

 

Allah clearly says in the Quran in hundreds of verses not ask others beside Him, they can not help you. 

 

Tawassul isn't a Sunni/Shi`a issue, there are people in both sects who practice it, and there are people in both sides who don't practice it.

 

Of those who support tawassul, their argument is that the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) have no power that is independent of Allah. They are simply an intercessor, and Allah may answer their prayers.

 

 

That is not even Tawasul. 

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And do not say about those who are killed in the way of Allah , "They are dead." Rather, they are alive, but you perceive [it] not. Al Baqarah 154

 

And how exactly is being alive in a different spiritual world relevant to being able to protect someone in this world?

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Im pretty sure your parents protected you as a child... Shirk much? Lets not play double standards here. If protection is soley from Allah, then you are all doers of shirk.

 

And how exactly is being alive in a different spiritual world relevant to being able to protect someone in this world?

 

Since when do spirits need sustenance? None the less, have you ever heard of dua's for protection? The same way, your parents pray for your safety, the same way Imam Ali A.S can do.

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(salam)

 

The verse doesn't mean they can help you. 

 

This just shows how much superficial thinking you indulge in. Th verse states that they are alive. So this defeats that whole purpose of your statements that they are dead. If they are alive, they can be an intermediate for your Du'a.

 

Why did the sons of Yaqoub tell their father to ask Allah to forgive them? Why did they not ask him directly?

 

12_97.png

 

They said, "O our father, ask for us forgiveness of our sins; indeed, we have been sinners."

 

There is not such thing as "being alive in a different spiritual world". We all know that there are days that souls return to this earth by the will of Allah, even if we do not see them, they are here in this world. I suggest no one argues about the afterlife since I doubt anyone has enough information to tell us that they have nothing to do with our world.

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No doubt what she 'meant' was "May Imam Ali pray to Allah to protect you"... :rolleyes:

Well, some stupid (ghulat) shia say inshali instead of InshaAllah Same argument.

From your own post:

.

Here is the kind of argument that could be used to defend it:

`Ali only acts in accordance with the will of Allah. Allah's will is his will, and his will is Allah's will. So really, there is no difference in what you say. Additionally, `Ali had wilayah over creation, so if he doesn't want something to happen, then it won't. Therefore it makes sense that you would say "if `Ali wills". Just remember that ultimately all power is from Allah, and everything is ok.

Edited by Nima

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This just shows how much superficial thinking you indulge in. Th verse states that they are alive. So this defeats that whole purpose of your statements that they are dead. If they are alive, they can be an intermediate for your Du'a.

 

Why did the sons of Yaqoub tell their father to ask Allah to forgive them? Why did they not ask him directly?

 

12_97.png

 

They said, "O our father, ask for us forgiveness of our sins; indeed, we have been sinners."

 

There is not such thing as "being alive in a different spiritual world". We all know that there are days that souls return to this earth by the will of Allah, even if we do not see them, they are here in this world. I suggest no one argues about the afterlife since I doubt anyone has enough information to tell us that they have nothing to do with our world.

 

That is the true Tawasul. Yaqub (as) was alive and present and his sons asked him to pray for them. 

Edited by Abul Hussain Hassani

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Well, some stupid (ghulat) shia say inshali instead of InshaAllah Same argument.

From your own post:

.

Here is the kind of argument that could be used to defend it:

`Ali only acts in accordance with the will of Allah. Allah's will is his will, and his will is Allah's will. So really, there is no difference in what you say. Additionally, `Ali had wilayah over creation, so if he doesn't want something to happen, then it won't. Therefore it makes sense that you would say "if `Ali wills". Just remember that ultimately all power is from Allah, and everything is ok.

 

That is the most stupid, ignorant, retarded "proof" ever. There are so many contradictions in it. First and formost, Allah CANNOT act upon people's wills astagfirullah, thats just impossible. That would mean we have power over Allah. A God doesnt act apon a creations will, it is a one way system, and its us acting upon His will. Same goes for the second bold statement. But try again Nima, its okay :dry:

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Well, some stupid (ghulat) shia say inshali instead of InshaAllah Same argument.

From your own post:

.

Here is the kind of argument that could be used to defend it:

`Ali only acts in accordance with the will of Allah. Allah's will is his will, and his will is Allah's will. So really, there is no difference in what you say. Additionally, `Ali had wilayah over creation, so if he doesn't want something to happen, then it won't. Therefore it makes sense that you would say "if `Ali wills". Just remember that ultimately all power is from Allah, and everything is ok.

No offence, but I do love Ali(ra) as much as every other person that was dear to Mohammad (pbuh), but can you compare Ali to Mohammad?

 

As cherished as he is, Ali is only a man just like the rest of us.  There is no divine connection between him and Allah other than the fact that he is a shaheed.  Only Mohammad can vouch for us on the day of judgement. 

 

Catholics believe in saints and they pray to them, but we do not have this in Islam. 

 

If you reject this, then you might as well scratch out "Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help. " from the Fatiha. 

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That is the most stupid, ignorant, retarded "proof" ever. There are so many contradictions in it. First and formost, Allah CANNOT act upon people's wills astagfirullah, thats just impossible. That would mean we have power over Allah. A God doesnt act apon a creations will, it is a one way system, and its us acting upon His will. Same goes for the second bold statement. But try again Nima, its okay :dry:

Nima was quoting me doing as parody of the retarded arguments you guys come out with. And anyway, do you deny that the will of the Imams is always in accordance with the will of Allah? And if Allah doesn't ever act on the will of His creation, then what sense does it make to say that the duas of the Imams are always answered immediately?

Edited by Haydar Husayn

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So are you saying all those who die for the sake of Allah they can hear and see us?

 

Have you seriously read the Quran? Like seriously????

 

[Yusufali 7:77] Then they ham-strung the she camel, and insolently defied the order of their Lord, saying: "O Salih! bring about thy threats, if thou art a messenger (of Allah)!"

[Yusufali 7:78] So the earthquake took them unawares, and they lay prostrate in their homes in the morning!

[Yusufali 7:79] So Salih left them, saying: "O my people! I did indeed convey to you the message for which I was sent by my Lord: I gave you good counsel, but ye love not good counsellors!"

[Yusufali 7:91] But the earthquake took them unawares, and they lay prostrate in their homes before the morning!

[Yusufali 7:92] The men who reject Shu'aib became as if they had never been in the homes where they had flourished: the men who rejected Shu'aib - it was they who were ruined!

[Yusufali 7:93] So Shu'aib left them, saying:"O my people! I did indeed convey to you the messages for which I was sent by my Lord: I gave you good counsel, but how shall I lament over a people who refuse to believe!"

 

Why would the prophet be talking to them if they couldnt hear him? Did the prophet not know any better? Clearly, he was adressing them in these verses. These werent even martyrs dieing for the sake of Alllah..

 

There is a verse in the Holy Quran, which confirms that Rasool Allah [saww] is Seeing our Actions.

[Yusufali 9:94] ... It is your actions that Allah and His Messenger will observe: in the end will ye be brought back to Him Who knoweth what is hidden and what is open: then will He show you the truth of all that ye did."

And another verse of the Holy Quran confirms that not only Rasool Allah [saww], but also the Momineen (believers) are also seeing our actions.

[Yusufali 9:105] And say: "Work (righteousness): Soon will Allah observe your work, and His Messenger, and the Believers: Soon will ye be brought back to the knower of what is hidden and what is open: then will He show you the truth of all that ye did."

Edited by PureEthics

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And how exactly is being alive in a different spiritual world relevant to being able to protect someone in this world?

 

Im moot on Tawassul. Allama Tabatabai did not agree with it. But there are traditions from Imams the Imams that tell us was the the souls of the dead are not cut off from the world. They can visit their loved ones. And God does not deny anyone's prayer. They could pray for you just like you pray for them.

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Nima was quoting me doing as parody of the retarded arguments you guys come out with. And anyway, do you deny that the will of the Imams is always in accordance with the will of Allah? And if Allah doesn't ever act on the will of His creation, then what sense does it make to say that the duas of the Imams are always answered?

 

Now people who do Tawassul and believe in it and if they are attacked by others why they defend themselves, they are retarded. Now I ask, whose argument is retarded, theirs or yours who attack people who do nothing else and not harming others but do Tawassul but you attack them why they do it by saying they are retarded. Tell me, whose argument is retarded here?

Edited by Shiabro

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Nima was quoting me doing as parody of the retarded arguments you guys come out with. And anyway, do you deny that the will of the Imams is always in accordance with the will of Allah? And if Allah doesn't ever act on the will of His creation, then what sense does it make to say that the duas of the Imams are always answered?

 

Who said the duas of the imams will always be answered? If thats the case dont ever dua, as we are all sinful being and clearly if you say our imams duas wont get answered, then there is no way yours will. So lets all drop dua-ing cause its pointless. :squeez:

 

The point is our imams are the means to Allah. They are the chosen perfect beings. I would be stupid not to beseech Allah on their behalf. While praying to Allah directly maybe 10% effective, using sinless beings will boost it up to at least 60-70%. Why do we ask our religious brothers and sisters to forgive us and pray for us? Because we deem them having a better face in front of Allah then us. Why walk when you have a car?

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Im moot on Tawassul. Allama Tabatabai did not agree with it. But there are traditions from Imams the Imams that tell us was the the souls of the dead are not cut off from the world. They can visit their loved ones. And God does not deny anyone's prayer. They could pray for you just like you pray for them.

If they pray for you, then it is still Allah protecting you. So why not just say "May Allah protect you"?

We can go round and round about tawassul/istighatha, but in the end what I don't understand is people's reticence to rely on Allah, and to call only on Him, when the Quran is full of verses that say to do just that. Allah included plenty of duas in the Quran, and they are all addressed to Allah. Not a trace of saying "Ya Ali" in the meaning of asking him to call upon Allah (even though there are many Shias of deficient intelligence who believe that Jesus (as) was calling out to Ali (as) on the cross, and even more that believe every past Prophet was constantly performing actions and having beliefs related to the Imams). Supposedly Nuh (as) was saved by invoking the names of the Ahlul Kisa, but again, no trace of that in the Quran. What's the explanation for this?

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Who said the duas of the imams will always be answered? If thats the case dont ever dua, as we are all sinful being and clearly if you say our imams duas wont get answered, then there is no way yours will. So lets all drop dua-ing cause its pointless. :squeez:

The point is our imams are the means to Allah. They are the chosen perfect beings. I would be stupid not to beseech Allah on their behalf. While praying to Allah directly maybe 10% effective, using sinless beings will boost it up to at least 60-70%. Why do we ask our religious brothers and sisters to forgive us and pray for us? Because we deem them having a better face in front of Allah then us. Why walk when you have a car?

Is this a joke?

"While praying to Allah directly maybe 10% effective....."

YaAllah....

Dua from Quran:

Shakir

Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.

Should we instead say: oh Ali.. Pray to our lord!

Edited by Nima

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Who said the duas of the imams will always be answered? If thats the case dont ever dua, as we are all sinful being and clearly if you say our imams duas wont get answered, then there is no way yours will. So lets all drop dua-ing cause its pointless. :squeez:

 

The point is our imams are the means to Allah. They are the chosen perfect beings. I would be stupid not to beseech Allah on their behalf. While praying to Allah directly maybe 10% effective, using sinless beings will boost it up to at least 60-70%. Why do we ask our religious brothers and sisters to forgive us and pray for us? Because we deem them having a better face in front of Allah then us. Why walk when you have a car?

Sorry, I meant 'answered immediately'. The Qur'an says that everyone who supplicates to Allah will have his dua answered.

To be honest, I'm not interested in your doctor and car analogies. Instead, why don't you explain why Allah tells us constantly to only call on Him and to rely only on Him, when in fact we are supposed to be calling on others to pray to Allah on our behalf? Additionally, why does Allah give so many duas in the Quran, that don't mention calling on anyone else?

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If they pray for you, then it is still Allah protecting you. So why not just say "May Allah protect you"?

 

There is a difference between acting on Allah's commands and them not having free will. Just because they fall in line with God's will doesnt mean they dont have free will, hence they can pray for you and if Allah wants it will be accepted. Your confusing yourself. What you are saying is that because they are following Allah's will, then there is no point in asking them to pray for you, but that is where your wrong. We as beings try and follow Allah's will, but it is by our own freedom that we choose to forgive and pray for someone. Same would go for Imams. Imams are not some puppets controlled by God. They have their own will to choose to pray for us.

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Now people who do Tawassul and believe in it and if they are attacked by others why they defend themselves, they are retarded. Now I ask, whose argument is retarded, theirs or yours who attack people who do nothing else and not harming others but do Tawassul but you attack them why they do it by saying they are retarded. Tell me, whose argument is retarded here?

Nobody has a problem with tawassul. The problem they have is with calling on others than Allah to protect or save you, and then when you challenge them on this in light of the what the Qur'an says, they try to divert the topic to other things, and start talking to you about asking your mother for a class of water and going to the doctor.

There is a difference between acting on Allah's commands and them not having free will. Just because they fall in line with God's will doesnt mean they dont have free will, hence they can pray for you and if Allah wants it will be accepted. Your confusing yourself. What you are saying is that because they are following Allah's will, then there is no point in asking them to pray for you, but that is where your wrong. We as beings try and follow Allah's will, but it is by our own freedom that we choose to forgive and pray for someone. Same would go for Imams. Imams are not some puppets controlled by God. They have their own will to choose to pray for us.

Is their will perfectly in line with Allah's, yes or no?

Are the duas of the Imams always answered immediately, yes or no?

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Is this a joke?

"While praying to Allah directly maybe 10% effective....."

Oh Allah....

 

Do beings not have a status ain Allah's eyes? Is a sinner equal to an imam?

 

Sorry, I meant 'answered immediately'. The Qur'an says that everyone who supplicates to Allah will have his dua answered.

To be honest, I'm not interested in your doctor and car analogies. Instead, why don't you explain why Allah tells us constantly to only call on Him and to rely only on Him, when in fact we are supposed to be calling on others to pray to Allah on our behalf? Additionally, why does Allah give so many duas in the Quran, that don't mention calling on anyone else?

 

Clearly, its not simple as that otherwise everyone would have all their duas fulfilled. For the 500000 time, no one says your suppose to call on the imams. They are a means, and if you want use that means. it would be stupid not to. Clearly there are verses that show this, your just ignorant.

 

1. Why didnt Prophet Yousef's dad ask Allah to cure his eyesight?

 

[Yusufali 12:93-96] “Go with this my shirt, and cast it over the face of my father: he will come to see (clearly).

 

2. Allah telling the prophet to ask forgivness for us. Why does Allah say this??

 

...Had they, when they had wronged themselves, come to you and asked Allah's forgiveness and the Apostle had asked forgiveness for them, they would certainly have found Allah Most-Propitious, Most-Merciful. (Holy Qur'an 4: 64).

 

[Pickthal 3:159] ………… So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them.

[Pickthal 4:106-107] And seek forgiveness of Allah (for others). Lo! Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful. And plead not on behalf of (people) who deceive themselves.

[Pickthal 8:33] But Allah would not punish them while thou wast with them, nor will He punish them while they seek forgiveness.

[Pickthal 9:80-84] Ask forgiveness for them (O Muhammad), or ask not forgiveness for them; though thou ask forgiveness for them seventy times Allah will not forgive them.  And never (O Muhammad) pray for one of them who dieth, nor stand by his grave.

[Pickthal 9:103] Take alms of their wealth, wherewith thou mayst purify them and mayst make them grow, and pray for them. Lo! thy prayer is an assuagement for them.

[Pickthal 9:113] It is not for the Prophet, and those who believe, to pray for the forgiveness of idolaters even though they may be near of kin (to them) after it hath become clear that they are people of hell-fire.

[Pickthal 24:62] So, if they ask thy leave for some affair of theirs, give leave to whom thou wilt of them, and ask for them forgiveness of Allah.

[Pickthal 47:19] ..So know (O Muhammad) that there is no Allah save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin and for believing men and believing women.

[Pickthal 60:12] then accept their allegiance and ask Allah to forgive them.

[Pickthal 63:5-6] And when it is said unto them: Come! The messenger of Allah will ask forgiveness for you! They [the hypocrites] avert their faces and thou seest them turning away, disdainful. Whether thou ask forgiveness for them or ask not forgiveness for them is all one for them; Allah will not forgive them.

 

 

 

Hadrat Zahra(A.S.) also said, "We are the channel of connection between creatures and the Creator."(Sharh Ibn Abi al-Hadid, Vol. 16, 211).

Many ahadith have been narrated in this regard.(Bihar al-Anwar, Vol. 23, 101; Vol. 24, 84; Tafsir Nur al-Thaqalayn, Vol. 1, 626).

Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq, the sixth Imam of the school of Ahlul Bayt, at the time of his martyrdom called his relatives and companions and said, “Verily, our intercession will never reach one who takes the prayers lightly.”[113]

The Intercessors are five: the Quran, one's near relatives, trusts (amanah), your Prophet, and the family of your Prophet (the Ahlul Bayt).[112]

 

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hence they can pray for you and if Allah wants it will be accepted.

 

Sounds like some of my Shia buddies are incorporating Christianity with Islam.  Christians say "the only way to God is through Jesus Christ"  And you say "The only way to God is through Imam so and so"

 

Soon, Imams will be the sons of God in a brand new branch of Shiasm. 

 

seriously, folks, stop with the innovations.  Stick to the Quran and thats it.  The clown in the video had the audacity to claim that Allah gave Khomeini the miracle to speak during infancy?  And the audience believed it?! 

 

When innovation in religion occurs, it begins to confuse the general mass. Do you know what happens after that? Faith weakens.  Do you not witness that when Iranians move out of Iran and into foreign lands, their faith begins to fade?  I have many Persian friends who are atheists now.  Why? I am YET too see an Iranian sister with a hijab on her head. 

 

If you all put your arrogance aside and TRULY read the Quran, instead of some Imam interpretting it to you, you'll see the flaws. 

 

 

Different topic, but you all believe that the Mahdi will come and free Palestine.  But the Palestians are Sunni??!! Why would the Shia Mahdi waste his time helping kaffir sunnis???

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Sounds like some of my Shia buddies are incorporating Christianity with Islam.  Christians say "the only way to God is through Jesus Christ"  And you say "The only way to God is through Imam so and so"

 

Soon, Imams will be the sons of God in a brand new branch of Shiasm. 

 

seriously, folks, stop with the innovations.  Stick to the Quran and thats it.  The clown in the video had the audacity to claim that Allah gave Khomeini the miracle to speak during infancy?  And the audience believed it?! 

 

When innovation in religion occurs, it begins to confuse the general mass. Do you know what happens after that? Faith weakens.  Do you not witness that when Iranians move out of Iran and into foreign lands, their faith begins to fade?  I have many Persian friends who are atheists now.  Why? I am YET too see an Iranian sister with a hijab on her head. 

 

If you all put your arrogance aside and TRULY read the Quran, instead of some Imam interpretting it to you, you'll see the flaws. 

 

 

Different topic, but you all believe that the Mahdi will come and free Palestine.  But the Palestians are Sunni??!! Why would the Shia Mahdi waste his time helping kaffir sunnis???

 

hehehe are you serious right now? I never said its the only way, none the less its the best. I supported all that I said from the quran, but can you support yours? I dont think we believe God has body parts and sits on a throne o_O like your likes and ibn taymiya. Nor have we innovated anything, but here is a list of innovations done by your wonderful 3 kings and then some: http://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/innovations-early-caliphs

 

I am merly obeying Allah: "O’ you who believe! Be mindful (of your duties) to Allah, and seek the means of approaching toward Him.”(Qur’an 5:35)

Your obeying those who were neither chosen by the prophet or Allah...

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Different topic, but you all believe that the Mahdi will come and free Palestine.  But the Palestians are Sunni??!! Why would the Shia Mahdi waste his time helping kaffir sunnis???

 

Because the Mahdi (as) is the leader of ALL humanity, not just Shias. 

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Sorry, I meant 'answered immediately'. The Qur'an says that everyone who supplicates to Allah will have his dua answered.

To be honest, I'm not interested in your doctor and car analogies. Instead, why don't you explain why Allah tells us constantly to only call on Him and to rely only on Him, when in fact we are supposed to be calling on others to pray to Allah on our behalf? Additionally, why does Allah give so many duas in the Quran, that don't mention calling on anyone else?

 

So do you believe, it is Shirk, when we go to the local Masjid and ask some pious brothers to pray for us or ask the Imam to do an Istekhara?

Edited by Shiabro

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So do you believe, it is Shirk, when we go to the local Masjid and ask some pious brothers to pray for you or ask the Imam to do an Istekhara?

 

 

No, because they are still alive.  Same with the Aya regarding Yusef.  Yusef's father was alive when the inquiry occurred.

 

Ali, Hassan, Hussein, Zainab (may Allah Bless them all) are not here.  They have passed away 1400 years ago.  Why are you making them immortal? 

 

Why not say "Labaik ya Allah" ?

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No, because they are still alive.  Same with the Aya regarding Yusef.  Yusef's father was alive when the inquiry occurred.

 

Ali, Hassan, Hussein, Zainab (may Allah Bless them all) are not here.  They have passed away 1400 years ago.  Why are you making them immortal? 

 

Why not say "Labaik ya Allah" ?

 

So your saying God is a liar? Astagifurullah... You have two choices, either your right and God's wrong, or your wrong and God's right

 

Think not of those who are martyred in the way of Allah as dead. Nay! They are living, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord.”(Qur’an 3:169)

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So do you believe, it is Shirk, when we go to the local Masjid and ask some pious brothers to pray for us or ask the Imam to do an Istekhara?

I don't mind you asking me questions, but I think you should also answer the ones I asked in the post you quoted, rather than answering a question with a question.

As for what you are asking, then no, I do not believe it is shirk. Neither do I believe it is shirk for someone to ask the Imams to intercede on their behalf with Allah. However, this is not what I am discussing. What I am discussing is people asking the Imams to protect them, to grant them children, and generally to provide for their needs. It is completely dishonest to pretend that these things are the same thing as simply asking someone to pray for you.

So your saying God is a liar? Astagifurullah... You have two choices, either your right and God's wrong, or your wrong and God's right

Think not of those who are martyred in the way of Allah as dead. Nay! They are living, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord.”(Qur’an 3:169)

Or alternatively, that you are misinterpreting the verse. Clearly, whatever the verse means, it's obvious that the Imams did actual die, and are no longer with us. Or are you denying that the Imams died? Do you deny that they will be resurrected (which implies being dead)? Edited by Haydar Husayn

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Or alternatively, that you are misinterpreting the verse. Clearly, whatever the verse means, it's obvious that the Imams did actual die, and are no longer with us. Or are you denying that the Imams died? Do you deny that they will be resurrected (which implies being dead)?

 

Oh Im sure their dead, but dead in the sense of materialistic. Dead in the sense of their physical body. Being dead does not implying leaving this world, as its clear, one can be dead and still among us. Also, think carefully, why does Allah use a counter argument right after telling us they are not dead? Why does Allah talk about sustaining them? Why would a non-physical being need sustenance? Clearly, there are two types of death according to this verse, in regards to martyr's and those similar. Its nice of you to stretch out this argument and mix in a few words to keep it up. I give you props.

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Oh Im sure their dead, but dead in the sense of materialistic. Dead in the sense of their physical body. Being dead does not implying leaving this world, as its clear, one can be dead and still among us. Also, think carefully, why does Allah use a counter argument right after telling us they are not dead? Why does Allah talk about sustaining them? Why would a non-physical being need sustenance? Clearly, there are two types of death according to this verse, in regards to martyr's and those similar. Its nice of you to stretch out this argument and mix in a few words to keep it up. I give you props.

Where does the verse say martyrs are still among us? You can be alive without being among us.

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