8 Reasons Why Iran Doesn't Trust America

[Gainzz]

[CLynn]

I bet someone could come up with 8 reasons why the U.S. doesn't trust Iran, also.....

[repenter-gone4awhile]

I bet someone could come up with 8 reasons why the U.S. doesn't trust Iran, also.....

 

Could you?

[CLynn]

Could you?

 

Greetings repenter,

 

lol - I'm just not that interested in investing my time in it...  I am preferring to be hopeful...

but I am aware of Rouhani's previous track record as head of the nuclear division...

    “While we were talking with the Europeans in Tehran, we were installing equipment in parts of the nuclear conversion facility in Isfahan. By creating a calm environment, we were able to complete the work there.”

-- Hassan Rouhani, Beyond the Challenges Facing Iran and the IAEA Concerning the Nuclear Dossier

 

and there is this;

Shirin Ebadi, Nobel Peace Prize winner (who until recently lived in Iran), has criticized the human rights record of President Hassan Rouhani. Speaking to the AP news agency, Ebadi highlighted a rise in executions since Rouhani took office this year and accused the government of lying about the release of political prisoners.

 

not to mention that nasty little thing called taqiya...

 

but let's be hopeful, yes?

The world needs peace and an end to the hostilities so that all might prosper.

 

Salaam and blessings,

CLynn

[Jahangiram]

Greetings repenter,

 

lol - I'm just not that interested in investing my time in it...  I am preferring to be hopeful...

but I am aware of Rouhani's previous track record as head of the nuclear division...

    “While we were talking with the Europeans in Tehran, we were installing equipment in parts of the nuclear conversion facility in Isfahan. By creating a calm environment, we were able to complete the work there.”

-- Hassan Rouhani, Beyond the Challenges Facing Iran and the IAEA Concerning the Nuclear Dossier

 

and there is this;

Shirin Ebadi, Nobel Peace Prize winner (who until recently lived in Iran), has criticized the human rights record of President Hassan Rouhani. Speaking to the AP news agency, Ebadi highlighted a rise in executions since Rouhani took office this year and accused the government of lying about the release of political prisoners.

 

not to mention that nasty little thing called taqiya...

 

but let's be hopeful, yes?

The world needs peace and an end to the hostilities so that all might prosper.

 

Salaam and blessings,

CLynn

Why is protecting your life, property and honor 'nasty'? lol

[CLynn]

Why is protecting your life, property and honor 'nasty'? lol

 

Greetings Jahangiram,

 

Just saying, knowing that the practice of taqiya is an acceptable practice, doesn't exactly promote trust, does it?

 

Not saying that other governments don't lie also... just their religions don't usually approve it... it means going against the principles of God.  There are leaders that try not to go against the teachings of their God... and the teaching of the Christian God is something different than the teaching of the muslim God.

 

Salaam,

CLynn

Edited December 10, 2013 by CLynn

[Jahangiram]

Greetings Jahangiram,

 

Just saying, knowing that the practice of taqiya is an acceptable practice, doesn't exactly promote trust, does it?

 

 

In the following cases, no:

 

.وقد استنبط العلماء من هذه الآية جواز التّقيّة بأن يقول الإنسان أو يفعل ما يخالف الحق لأجل توقى ضرر من الأعداء يعود إلى النفس أو العرض أو المال.

 

“Scholars have deduced the permissibility of Taqiyyah from this verse wherein a person speaks or acts in a manner that is contrary to the truth so that he protects his life, property and honor from an enemy.” - Tafsir Muraaghi Vol. 3 pg 133

 

The word translated as honor here ('ird) means the specific honor derived from chastity; so if people threaten to rape your daughters or punish them for a false accusation of adultery you can do taqiyyah.

 

Not saying that other governments don't lie also... just their religions don't usually approve it... it means going against the principles of God.  There are leaders that try not to go against the teachings of their God... and the teaching of the Christian God is something different than the teaching of the muslim God.

 

Salaam,

CLynn

 

Actually quite a few church fathers and Martin Luther himself allowed deception for protecting your well being from harm. On top of that, there's quite a few troubling verses in the new testament which seem to sanction deception beyond the scope of mere protection. 

[Gainzz]

- Iran has never abandoned the nuclear program. This is no secret. Negotiations never encompassed the shutdown of nuclear enrichment activity.

 

- Shirin Ebadi seeks the overthrow of the Islamic Republic, and has been used as a pawn by the West for her 'activism' for years. She became an active figure in law on the recommendation of none other than Farah Pahlavi. After the revolution she was placed on inactive duty and became a bitter woman who sought to overthrow the new government. Her husband has called for her arrest after being repeatedly assaulted and beaten by Ebadi. He has dismissed her claims and calls her a psychopath. She is regularly shown in demonstrations alongside MKO members and monarchists.

 

- Taqiya is an act of deceit carried out by an individual in life-threatening situations. Taqiyya is not applicable for a state.

 

 

.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Gainzz

[baradar_jackson]

Taqiya is an act of deceit carried out by an individual in life-threatening situations. Taqiyya is not applicable for a state..

 

It's the new buzzword for bigots.

 

They started by talking about "jee-hawd," and then "shuriyuh"... and now they are finally getting around to talking about "tukiyuh." They don't know the meanings of any of these words; they just throw them around aimlessly.

[CLynn]

 On top of that, there's quite a few troubling verses in the new testament which seem to sanction deception beyond the scope of mere protection. 

 

Greetings Jahangiram,

 

You'd have to show me the verses.

 

I am most familiar with Yahshua's command that, 'if ye shall deny me, then ye also shall be denied in the day of judgement'.

And the ten commandments which are upheld by the new covenant that say, though shalt not bear false witness.

I find no exceptions to the teaching in Christian scholar, that lying is unacceptable.

 

Salaam,

CLynn

Edited December 11, 2013 by CLynn

[Jahangiram]

Greetings Jahangiram,

 

You'd have to show me the verses.

 

I am most familiar with Yahshua's command that, 'if ye shall deny me, then ye also shall be denied in the day of judgement'.

And the ten commandments which are upheld by the new covenant that say, though shalt not bear false witness.

I find no exceptions to the teaching in Christian scholar, that lying is unacceptable.

 

Salaam,

CLynn

Well you can inquire about it more in the interfaith forum because its irrelevant to this thread.

 

ws

[hasanhh]

Greetings repenter,

 

lol - I'm just not that interested in investing my time in it...  I am preferring to be hopeful...

but I am aware of Rouhani's previous track record as head of the nuclear division...

    “........

Shirin Ebadi, Nobel Peace Prize winner (who until recently lived in Iran), has criticized the human rights record of President Hassan Rouhani. Speaking to the AP news agency, Ebadi highlighted a rise in executions since Rouhani took office this year and accused the government of lying about the release of political prisoners.

 

 

 

Salaam and blessings,

CLynn

 

 

:no:  :no:

 

Rouhani's "track record" as the nuclear negotiator over a decade ago was severe criticism at home. Iran had halted all enrichment activities as a "confidence building measure" with Europe until it was blatantly obvious that Europe was doing what the US wanted Europe to do.

 

As to Shirin Ebaadi's saying Rouhani has a poor rights record, How? Rouhani has only been in office since August 3rd.

Edited December 11, 2013 by hasanhh

[myouvial]

I try to make Iran's Nuclear Program issue simple.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Khamenei

 

"Iran insists that Khamenei has issued a fatwa saying the production, stockpiling and use of nuclear weapons was forbidden under Islam.^[9]?"

 

I do not understand why they (US, Israel etc) do not trust Khamenei's word.

 

Any idea ?

Edited December 11, 2013 by myouvial

[A true Sunni]

Greetings Jahangiram,

 

You'd have to show me the verses.

 

I am most familiar with Yahshua's command that, 'if ye shall deny me, then ye also shall be denied in the day of judgement'.

And the ten commandments which are upheld by the new covenant that say, though shalt not bear false witness.

I find no exceptions to the teaching in Christian scholar, that lying is unacceptable.

 

Salaam,

CLynn

 

You will have to remind me about the rock upon which the church is built . I think you call him St Peter. Was not one of his first acts after the crucifixtion Taquiya. Did he not deny Jesus thrice before the Rooster crowed .

So the first pope of Christendom can practice taquiya but you cannot find it in your teachings.

Convenient memory lapse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter#Denial_of_Jesus_by_Peter

 

posted a link in case your google practices 'taqiya'

Edited December 11, 2013 by A true Sunni

[CLynn]

You will have to remind me about the rock upon which the church is built . I think you call him St Peter. Was not one of his first acts after the crucifixtion Taquiya. Did he not deny Jesus thrice before the Rooster crowed .

So the first pope of Christendom can practice taquiya but you cannot find it in your teachings.

Convenient memory lapse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter#Denial_of_Jesus_by_Peter

 

Greetings A true Sunni,

 

The point is, it was wrong, and he knew it was wrong.  The scriptures show that he was ashamed of himself.

posted a link in case your google practices 'taqiya'

 

lol  :)

Edited December 11, 2013 by CLynn

[Grief]

Just saying, knowing that the practice of taqiya is an acceptable practice, doesn't exactly promote trust, does it?

 

(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

Yes, you are correct. It is an acceptable Christian practice. I wonder how Iran can trust a Christian country that is allowed to practice taqiyyah.

 

The Ichthys or fish symbol was used by early Christians to identify themselves as followers of Jesus Christ and to express their affinity to Christianity. Ichthys is the Ancient Greek word for "fish." The "Christian fish," or "Jesus fish" symbol consists of two intersecting arcs tracing the outline of a fish (most commonly with the fish "swimming" to the left). It is said to have been used by early persecuted Christians as a secret symbol of identification. The Greek word for fish (Ichthus) also forms the acronym "Jesus Christ, God's Son, Savior."

 

It is said that during the persecution of the early church, a Christian meeting someone new would draw a single arc in the sand. If the other person was a Christian, he or she would complete the drawing of a fish with a second arc. If the second person was not a Christian, the ambiguity of the half-symbol would not reveal the first person as a Christian.

 

(wasalam)

Edited December 11, 2013 by BuggyLemon

[Jahangiram]

I've found an ingenious solution to this trust issue -  if America ceases to constantly threaten Iran with invasion, there would be no need for any possible taqiyyah.

 

We all know America's track record of murder, theft and rape; protection of life, property and honor seem to all apply here!

 

:)

[A true Sunni]

Greetings A true Sunni,

 

The point is, it was wrong, and he knew it was wrong.  The scriptures show that he was ashamed of himself.

 

 

 

You are confusing shame with 'wrongness/sin' . I am sure you dont need a theological discourse to highlight the obvious difference.

[CLynn]

You are confusing shame with 'wrongness/sin' . I am sure you dont need a theological discourse to highlight the obvious difference.

 

Greetings A true Sunni,

For me, there is only one thing that can cause shame... and that is sin.

Salaam,

CLynn

Edited December 12, 2013 by CLynn

[hasanhh]

OK, Clynn:

 

Define: 'sin'.

[CLynn]

OK, Clynn:

 

Define: 'sin'.

 

Any action that is harmful to self and/or society.

[A true Sunni]

Greetings A true Sunni,

For me, there is only one thing that can cause shame... and that is sin.

Salaam,

CLynn

 

That is your opinion. Luckily Allah is all just and doesnt use you as a yard stick for sin. In this convoluted world it probably escaped your attention that if Peter hadn't 'sinned' there would have been no rock and no church. 

 

All of Christendom owes its existence to this 'original sin'. Seems like Christianity has a thing about original sin

Edited December 12, 2013 by A true Sunni

[Wisdom Lion]

Without humans sinning there is no need for Jesus in christianity, Jesus depends on humans to sin in the false religion that was created by Paul

Isa PBUH is in heaven without having to die for anyone's sins and we will all see for ourselves eventually.

[hasanhh]

Clynn: "any action harmful to self or society" ..that is more like masochism and anti-social pathologies.

 

So, agin', define: "sin"

A True Sunni sorry the quote tab here isn't working.

 

"Original sin", "immaculate conception" and "papal infallibility" were new doctrines from the 1880s. Like the "rapture" cwap was invented in the 1820s.

[Grief]

(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

I believe that Clynn's definition was correct, was it not?

 

(wasalam)

[CLynn]

"Original sin", "immaculate conception" and "papal infallibility" were new doctrines from the 1880s. Like the "rapture" cwap was invented in the 1820s.

 

Greetings hasanhh,

 

The rapture 'cwap', as you call it, comes from scripture, and from the very words of Yahshua.

 

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

These are the words of Yahshua to His disciples.

 

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

and this is the teaching of Paul, through Christ.

 

Salaam,

CLynn

[Wisdom Lion]

"Son of man"
Referring to Prophet Isa PBUH who is indeed a son of a female, not a man though.

And Allah is present everywhere. He is all aware. He does not need to shout to announce his coming or descend.

Paul, the individual who never meet Isa PBUH. This individual was an agent of the devil, as well as a a Jew of the pharisees with enmity towards Isa PBUH.

[CLynn]

And Allah is present everywhere. He is all aware. He does not need to shout to announce his coming or descend.

 

And from him from ibn Mahbub from Abi Ayyub from Muhammad b. Muslim.

He said: A Caller will call the name of the Qa’im عليه السلام from the sky, and all those between the East and the West will hear it, causing the sleepers to wake (qam), the standing to sit, and the sitting to stand on his feet because of that sound. And it is the sound of Jibra’il, the Truthful Spirit. (Tusi’s Ghayba)

(sahih) (صحيح)

[notme]

What does all this Bible talk have to do with the topic?

[Grief]

And from him from ibn Mahbub from Abi Ayyub from Muhammad b. Muslim.

He said: A Caller will call the name of the Qa’im عليه السلام from the sky, and all those between the East and the West will hear it, causing the sleepers to wake (qam), the standing to sit, and the sitting to stand on his feet because of that sound. And it is the sound of Jibra’il, the Truthful Spirit. (Tusi’s Ghayba)

(sahih) (صحيح)

(bismillah)

(salam)

I hope all is well in life, Clynn.

That hadith is about the Mahdi (AS) who will represent the religion of Allah when he reappears on this Earth.

It is not Allah himself. He is an Imam, the khalifatullah fil ardh, much like the prophets were khalifatullah fil ardh (representatives of Allah on Earth).

Allah is ever-present, all knowing and all seeing. He does not need to take any form. He creates. He is not created. As humans we are created. We are creation. How can he who is infinite confine himself to the created? He is everywhere at all times and cannot be restricted by time matter nor space.

Jesus (AS) was a man, confined by space matter and time. Therefore he could not have been God because God is infinite.

Take care.

What does all this Bible talk have to do with the topic?

Most threads here go off on interesting tangents. It becomes inconvenient to create new topics for every little thing that is touched on within peoples' posts. I think it's healthy.

(wasalam)

Edited December 16, 2013 by BuggyLemon

[Yusuf Musa]

Just saying, knowing that the practice of taqiya is an acceptable practice, doesn't exactly promote trust, does it?

There is a difference between taqiyyah and lying. Taqiyyah is to protect life, property, or religion. Don't let Iran, a country that massively abuses taqiyyah and lies in it's name, confuse you.

and the teaching of the Christian God is something different than the teaching of the muslim God.

True. The teaching of the Christian god is to kill all men, women, and male children and to rape the virgins. The teaching of the Muslim god is that killing another person (except in special circumstances) is forbidden.

Numbers 31:

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

[aliasghark]

America killed millions of people in the Iraq bombing, and its frequent wars globally. 

 

USA world's largest sponsor of terrorism: read how it supports terrorism in all sorts of ways http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/08/is-america-the-worlds-largest-sponsor-of-terrorism.html

 

 

 

They had to admit it themselves too: 

 

 

American CIA confessing that it faked a coup in Iran 1953, to destroy democracy: http://rt.com/usa/iran-coup-cia-operation-647/

Edited January 1, 2014 by aliasghark

[HaxisTheShia]

I live in America and I am very disappointed with it. I know why Iran hates the US the Shah was trying to make Iran less Islamic and more Persian by honoring The culture of the Persian Empire from the BCE era. The Shah arrested several protesters who opposed he attacked the holy city of Qom. He murdered thousands of students and forced them to enter the military he was a Tyrant who oppressed his Openents and he dared to take the title of "Shia" and the USA backed this 100% with weapons money and even some armed forces.

[aliasghark]

To remind people of another act of terrorism by the USA against innocent Iranian people: