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:Sami II

Does God Exist In Cyber Space ?

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(bismillah) 
 
(salam) 
 
 (1) a premise that asserts that the cyber space exhibits some empirical property F; (2) a premise (or sub-argument) that asserts (or concludes) that F is persuasive evidence of intelligent design or purpose; and (3) a premise (or sub-argument) that asserts (or concludes) that the best or most probable explanation for the fact that cyber space exhibits F is that there exists an intelligent designer who intentionally brought it about that the cyber space  exists and exhibits F.

​Does God exist in cyber space ?

 

ws

 

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(bismillah) 

 

(salam) 

 

 (1) a premise that asserts that the cyber space exhibits some empirical property F; (2) a premise (or sub-argument) that asserts (or concludes) that F is persuasive evidence of intelligent design or purpose; and (3) a premise (or sub-argument) that asserts (or concludes) that the best or most probable explanation for the fact that cyber space exhibits F is that there exists an intelligent designer who intentionally brought it about that the cyber space  exists and exhibits F.

​Does God exist in cyber space ?

 

ws

 

(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

That paragraph is putting forth the question of whether cyberspace is proof for the existence of God or not and whether He exists at all or not. I will skip that part as the logical deductions proving the existence of God have been discussed in other threads and posts thoroughly.

 

I will make one point though:

 

F is not a premise. It is an established fact.

 

"How much does the Internet weigh? No, it's not a Zen koan. The answer is about 1.8 ounces, around the same as a single strawberry, reports the Telegraph. How did anyone figure this out? Well, the Internet runs on electricity, and electrons have a tiny amount of weight—so researchers just added up the weight of all the electrons in motion on the Internet's 75 million to 100 million networks and servers, and presto, they came up with the weight of a strawberry."

 

Therefore God exists in cyberspace, just as he exists everywhere else in the physical world.

Edited by BuggyLemon

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Salaam Is God existence that all other existants depend on for their existence? Yes

Therefore dose cyber space exist? If yes then God must be present as it depends on his existence to illuminate its low dim light.

This is wahdatul wujud which means God is the light of lights meaning all things depend on his existence to exist. Pantheism is different it means all is God which attributes multiplicity to god and this is absurd as God is free of multiplicity.

Edited by Maitham

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(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

That paragraph is putting forth the question of whether cyberspace is proof for the existence of God or not and whether He exists at all or not. I will skip that part as the logical deductions proving the existence of God have been discussed in other threads and posts thoroughly.

 

I will make one point though:

 

F is not a premise. It is an established fact.

 

"How much does the Internet weigh? No, it's not a Zen koan. The answer is about 1.8 ounces, around the same as a single strawberry, reports the Telegraph. How did anyone figure this out? Well, the Internet runs on electricity, and electrons have a tiny amount of weight—so researchers just added up the weight of all the electrons in motion on the Internet's 75 million to 100 million networks and servers, and presto, they came up with the weight of a strawberry."

 

Therefore God exists in cyberspace, just as he exists everywhere else in the physical world.

(salam)

 

the material world exhibits infinite in it's weight , therefore adequately allowing an infinite being to occupy it .

your premise of cyberspace based on it's weight volume of 1.8 ounce will not allow an infinite being to occupy unless God weighs less than 1.8 ounces .

This asserts an argument that F is not exhibiting empirical properties of an intelligent design.

 

ws

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Existence dose not need weight if so then things like conception and feeling would not exist. Existence by its self dose not include weight.

Edited by Maitham

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Existence dose not need weight if so then things like conception and feeling would not exist. Existence by its self dose not include weight.

weight is relative and so are all existence other than that of God which is absolute, however the argument presented is that the internet has some weight volume and in that definition and context of the volume , can an intelligent absolute being exist ?

The empirical evidence to it states otherwise which leads me to cyber space being outside that of the material world .

Which brings me to does God exist here on SC ?

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It cannot be contained inside something but it can be present in all things. These are two separate notions.

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It is difficult to have common understanding in English language regarding God.

 

What i know is :

 

Allah SWT, is the term used in Arabic language for Almighty Creator which come from al ilah.

 

Al in English refers to the and ilah refers to god. So the proper term to Almighty Creator,

i think, is The God (which means god who is already recognized/ma'rifat), which is better term than just God, with capital G).

 

Almighty Creator see everything, even in Shiachat forum whenever people read, write in them.

If Shiachat forum want to have shortest distance to The God/Allah then follow what Ahlul Bayts as teach.

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As Imam Ja'far Sadiq (AS) said tell me where he is not? and i will tell you where he is. 

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"Cyber Space" is a concept, not a construct. A reservoir of digits. One's and Zeroes. So how can Allah(swt) be a "zero".? Or one 1 of many 1s?

is this :Dunya also not a concept , according to the holographic universe propagators.

is not a construct a concept in motion , and motion relative with ones and zeros .

So how can :Allah say be a zero or 1 of many 1s ??

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(bismillah) 

 

(salam) 

 

 (1) a premise that asserts that the cyber space exhibits some empirical property F; (2) a premise (or sub-argument) that asserts (or concludes) that F is persuasive evidence of intelligent design or purpose; and (3) a premise (or sub-argument) that asserts (or concludes) that the best or most probable explanation for the fact that cyber space exhibits F is that there exists an intelligent designer who intentionally brought it about that the cyber space  exists and exhibits F.

​Does God exist in cyber space ?

 

ws

 

Your question is incorrect. Does God exist in cyber space.

 

God does not exist in anything. God simply exists.

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Your question is incorrect. Does God exist in cyber space.

 

God does not exist in anything. God simply exists.

 on the premise that cyber space has not always existed , and on your premise that God simply exists , therefore  asserts  that God does not simply exist in cyberspace .

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 on the premise that cyber space has not always existed , and on your premise that God simply exists , therefore  asserts  that God does not simply exist in cyberspace .

 

I did not assert anything except that your question is flawed. You cannot ask whether God exists in something.

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I did not assert anything except that your question is flawed. You cannot ask whether God exists in something.

 

Actually you did assert God doesn't exist in cyberspace, due to a premise that God doesn't exist in anything. And yes you can ask if God exists in something, in which, a person can reply, God doesn't exist in anything.

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Are we saying Allah swt has a location??


Are we saying Allah swt has a location??

 Also, i am sure there is a verse in the Holy Quran, where Allah swt say we must not ponder about his creation or something on those lines…..

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A more proper proposition would be "is God present in cyber space"

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Are we saying Allah swt has a location??

 Also, i am sure there is a verse in the Holy Quran, where Allah swt say we must not ponder about his creation or something on those lines…..

This is interesting, do you have the correct verse? 

 

Since, reading Quran we read verses (plenty of them) that says differently. Such as look at Sun, Moon, and whatever is in between Heavens and Earth and these are signs, "for people with understanding" or "those that have sense". I thought these verses tell us to look at creation of Allah and see His mercy and other attributes in them and use them as your basis for Tafakkur (the first step of recognizing Tawheed). Since we can't just claim with tongue that we believe, instead we need to reach that conclusion based on our Tafakkur. This is considered the first step of Iman.

 

The way I see it is, whatever is created the original Cause is Allah. Since, cyberspace is a "creation", so Whatever good exists in it is from Allah, whatever bad exists is due to mankind. The number/symbols itself holds no significance (but a creation) but when combined to form command ex 101111 if leads to good is a proof of Allah. A proof of Allah signifies His Mercy, His Mercy signifies His Existence. Every attribute of Allah is linked/connected to His other attribute. This is how I understand things.

Edited by awaiting_for_the.12th

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Are we saying Allah swt has a location??

 Also, i am sure there is a verse in the Holy Quran, where Allah swt say we must not ponder about his creation or something on those lines…..

the argument relates to God , and not :Allah swt.

:Allah swt is not God , but :Allah swt.

No argument using  the limitations of the english language do justice to the grand word of :Allah swt , therefore let's stick to the word God.

On your premise of God has no location , shall we then assert the any location has no God ?

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Actually you did assert God doesn't exist in cyberspace, due to a premise that God doesn't exist in anything. And yes you can ask if God exists in something, in which, a person can reply, God doesn't exist in anything.

 

You can ask the question, but it does not make a valid one.

 

God's existence does not stipulate to Him existing in something. This paints a different picture of God.

 

If I had said 'no' to the question then it suggests that God does not encompass a certain part of the universe. If the question seeks to answer whether or not God's infinite wisdom encompasses cyber space - then yes, it does.

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You can ask the question, but it does not make a valid one.

 

God's existence does not stipulate to Him existing in something. This paints a different picture of God.

 

If I had said 'no' to the question then it suggests that God does not encompass a certain part of the universe. If the question seeks to answer whether or not God's infinite wisdom encompasses cyber space - then yes, it does.

how is it possible for God's infinite wisdom  encompass a finite space ? Please provide empirical evidence .

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This is interesting, do you have the correct verse? 

 

Since, reading Quran we read verses (plenty of them) that says differently. Such as look at Sun, Moon, and whatever is in between Heavens and Earth and these are signs, "for people with understanding" or "those that have sense". I thought these verses tell us to look at creation of Allah and see His mercy and other attributes in them and use them as your basis for Tafakkur (the first step of recognizing Tawheed). Since we can't just claim with tongue that we believe, instead we need to reach that conclusion based on our Tafakkur. This is considered the first step of Iman.

 

The way I see it is, whatever is created the original Cause is Allah. Since, cyberspace is a "creation", so Whatever good exists in it is from Allah, whatever bad exists is due to mankind. The number/symbols itself holds no significance (but a creation) but when combined to form command ex 101111 if leads to good is a proof of Allah. A proof of Allah signifies His Mercy, His Mercy signifies His Existence. Every attribute of Allah is linked/connected to His other attribute. This is how I understand things.

 

Bro, i must indeed profess that i have inserted the incorrect meaning, as to what  i was suppose to say. You are absolutely correct. That, Allah swt has said to  us to ponder upon his "creation"  there is no denial in this fact.  However, i will reiterate the point that i was suggesting : I am sure i have read  in the Holy Quran that we humans should not ponder upon as to how Allah swt , Exits,  and whether we should have intellectual debates to answer an meaningless quest to determine the location the direction and dose or dose he  exits in the same parallel dimension as us, these  Issue has not been discussed with our Imams a.s so i think we could put our efforts where we can benefit like for instance the creation of Allah swt…..

the argument relates to God , and not :Allah swt.

:Allah swt is not God , but :Allah swt.

No argument using  the limitations of the english language do justice to the grand word of :Allah swt , therefore let's stick to the word God.

On your premise of God has no location , shall we then assert the any location has no God ?

 

Bro, if you do not have a "definitive answers yourself", then should we be speculating? but either way i think you have a great imagination/intellect 

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how is it possible for God's infinite wisdom  encompass a finite space ? Please provide empirical evidence .

 

Empirical evidence? How can anyone here possibly provide empirical evidence for any of the things being said?

 

God's knowledge contains all things finite and physical. This is a definition of God. God does not need to exist inside something to encompass that thing.

 

You should know that God is indivisible and infinite. He does not have parts therefore He does not have a location. Often you hear people say 'God is everywhere' but that does not mean God physically exists everywhere - rather that God's 'presence' (defined as awareness and knowledge) exists everywhere (for all things).

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Empirical evidence? How can anyone here possibly provide empirical evidence for any of the things being said?

 

God's knowledge contains all things finite and physical. This is a definition of God. God does not need to exist inside something to encompass that thing.

 

You should know that God is indivisible and infinite. He does not have parts therefore He does not have a location. Often you hear people say 'God is everywhere' but that does not mean God physically exists everywhere - rather that God's 'presence' (defined as awareness and knowledge) exists everywhere (for all things).

according to our esteemed br BL , he asserted the following ;

 

"How much does the Internet weigh? No, it's not a Zen koan. The answer is about 1.8 ounces, around the same as a single strawberry, reports the Telegraph. How did anyone figure this out? Well, the Internet runs on electricity, and electrons have a tiny amount of weight—so researchers just added up the weight of all the electrons in motion on the Internet's 75 million to 100 million networks and servers, and presto, they came up with the weight of a strawberry."

 

thus giving cyberspace empirical properties , with a sub argument that asserts a persuasive evidence of an intelligent design or purpose.

Does  God's presence exist within a construct of such properties ?

If so , can one assert than the presence of such an intelligent designer be limited within the non-location of such a construct ?

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according to our esteemed br BL , he asserted the following ;

 

"How much does the Internet weigh? No, it's not a Zen koan. The answer is about 1.8 ounces, around the same as a single strawberry, reports the Telegraph. How did anyone figure this out? Well, the Internet runs on electricity, and electrons have a tiny amount of weight—so researchers just added up the weight of all the electrons in motion on the Internet's 75 million to 100 million networks and servers, and presto, they came up with the weight of a strawberry."

 

thus giving cyberspace empirical properties , with a sub argument that asserts a persuasive evidence of an intelligent design or purpose.

Does  God's presence exist within a construct of such properties ?

If so , can one assert than the presence of such an intelligent designer be limited within the non-location of such a construct ?

If God refer to la ilaha ilallah, which Nabi Muhammad SAW teaches human, then God is not within or without things you are referring, because He (God) is not material (atom, electron, neutron etc) and is not the emptyness between electron and nucleus/neutron and positif neutron). The existance of God is not the same as the existence of things. Perhaps, i can say (not yet asserting) that the existence of God refers to His maintaining, monitoring things/makhluq, but not as in human maintaining/monitoring (otherwise it may end up to the understanding of Wahhabism which believe He has eyes etc as human).

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according to our esteemed br BL , he asserted the following ;

 

"How much does the Internet weigh? No, it's not a Zen koan. The answer is about 1.8 ounces, around the same as a single strawberry, reports the Telegraph. How did anyone figure this out? Well, the Internet runs on electricity, and electrons have a tiny amount of weight—so researchers just added up the weight of all the electrons in motion on the Internet's 75 million to 100 million networks and servers, and presto, they came up with the weight of a strawberry."

 

thus giving cyberspace empirical properties , with a sub argument that asserts a persuasive evidence of an intelligent design or purpose.

Does  God's presence exist within a construct of such properties ?

If so , can one assert than the presence of such an intelligent designer be limited within the non-location of such a construct ?

 

myouvial answers this very well.

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