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Prayer Hands

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Hey guys so I made this thread on JahilliyaChat while SC was down and decided to share it here too.

 

 

When Iranian prisoners were brought before 'Umar, they stood before him with folded hands. On being asked the reason, they said that it was their custom to stand before the elders with folded hands. '
 
Umar said: Then we too should do the same when we stand before Allah in prayers.
 
When Anas ibn Malik, a companion of the Prophet (s.a.w.), went to Syria, he wept and said: "I do not see here anything which I used to see in the days of the Prophet (s.a.w.), except this prayer and that too is disfigured."
- Sahih al- Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 10, Number 507
 
 
Narrated ‘Aisha:
That she used to hate that one should keep his hands on his flanks while praying. She said that the Jew used to do so
- Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 664
 
 
Jabi bin Samara said: ‘Once Allah’s Messenger (pbuh) came to us and said: "Why you fold your hands as the tails of horses, you have to settle in prayer."
-Musnad Ahmed bin Hanbal, Volume 5 page 93 Hadith 20905
 
 
 
Narrated Abu Qatada Al-Ansari:
Allah’s Apostle was praying and he was carrying Umama the daughters of Zainab, the daughter of Allah’s Apostle and she was the daughter of ‘As bin Rabi’a bin ‘AbduShams. When he prostrated, he put her down and when he stood, he carried her (on his neck).
-Sahih al Bukhari, Chapter on the Virtues of the Prayer Hall (Sutra of the Musalla) Volume 1, Book 9, Number 495
 
Narrated Abu Qatada Al-Ansari:
On one occasion Allah’s Apostle lead the prayer congregation and Umama the daughter of Zainab, the daughter of ‘As bin Rabi’a bin ‘AbduShams was on his neck. When he prostrated, he put her down and when he stood, he carried her (on his neck). When he prostrated, he put her down and when he stood, he carried her (on his neck).
- Sharh Sahih Muslim by Nawawi Volume 1 page 205
 
We would appeal to our readers to inspect these two traditions closely, the ability to hold a child and the recite Takbeer, and then continue to pray Salat whilst folding his hands! If we are to accept this hadeeth from al Bukhari then we have to accept that the Prophet (pbuh) must have offered Salat with his hands open.
 
 
 
“Maaz narrates that when the Prophet (s) would stand for Salat, he would raise both hands to his ears, and after saying Takbeer would then drop his hands”.
-Talkhees al-Habeer fee Takhreej Ahadeeth Volume 1 page 333, Bab Sifat al Salat
 
Narrated by Ibn Munzar from Ibn Alzubair, Al-Hasan Al-Basri and Al-Nakh’ey that he (Holy Prophet) 'used to pray with unfolded hands and do not fold the right hand on the left hand', quoted by Al Nawawi from Al Laith bin Sa’edd and quoted by Al-Mahdi in Al-Bahr from Al-Qasimiyya, Al-Nasiriyya and Al-Baqar
-Nayl al-Awtar, Volume 2
 
 
Ibn al-Manzar narrated that Abdullah Ibn Zubair and al-Hassan al-Basri and Ibn Sireen that he (prophet) would offer Salat with his hands open and so did Malik”.
-Umadatul Qari Sharah Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9 page 20
 
 
Amro bin Dinar said: ‘Abdullah Ibn Zubair offered prayers without folding his hands’
- Al-Musnaf, Volume 1 page 344
 
 
“Abd Allah ibn al-Izar said, “I used to make tawaf around the Kaba with Saeed Ibn al-Jubayr. Once, he saw a man placing one hand over the other, so he went to him, separated his hands, and then returned to me”
- Al Tamheed
 
 
Abd Allah ibn Yazid said, “I never saw Saeed ibn al-Musayyib holding his left hand with his right hand in the prayer, he used to lay them straight.”
- Al Tamheed
 
 
Tanveer al Aynain:
“Ibn Sireen was asked a man why e placed his right hand over the left hand in Salat, he said this was practice of the Romans”
- Al-Awaail page 209 by Allama Askari, Chapter on Islami Namaz
- Tanveer an Aynain page 58
- al Rauza Lundheeya Volume 1 page 87, by Siddique Hasan Khan
 
 
“Umar used to kill knits whilst offereing Salat, to the extent that knits were clearly visible on his hands, Maaz bin Jabeel was a leader in this field”
- Kashf al Ghimma Volume 1 page 87 Part 2
 
 
 
Below is what the leading and famous scholar of Deobandis, Shah Muhammad Ismail wrote in his book Tanveer ul Ai’nain, page 30.
“The traditions of unfolding the hands have been reported from pious followers like Hasan Basri, Ibrahim, Ibn e Musaiyab and Ibn e Seerain, as reported by Ibne Shaiba. If the traditions (of folded hands) had reached these scholars, they did not deem it a Sunnah, but attributed it to a common practice. (They would have adopted it had they regarded it as Holy Prophet’s practice). Therefore they carried on with their way of unfolded hands due to it being authentic and having evidence to that effect. If these traditions had not reached them, we will assume they did not know about the folding of the hands, they told people to open their hands when praying, due to it being authentic, whereas the folding of hands is a custom with no solid evidence.”
 
 
 
 [ 9295 ] 1 ـ محمد بن الحسن بإسناده ، عن الحسين بن سعيد ، عن صفوان وفضالة جميعاً ، عن العلاء ، عن محمد بن مسلم ، عن أحدهما ( عليهما السلام ) قال : قلت : له الرجل يضع يده في الصلاة ، وحكى اليمنى على اليسرى ؟ فقال : ذلك التكفير ، لا تفعل .
 
 
 
1 – Muhammad b. al-Hasan by his isnad from al-Husayn b. Sa`id from Safwan and Faddala all from al-`Ala from Muhammad b. Muslim from one of the two of them عليهما السلام.  He said: I said to him: The man who positions his hand in salat – and he related - the right upon the left?  So he said: That is takfeer, do not do it.
 
 
 
 [ 9296 ] 2 ـ محمد بن يعقوب بالإسناد السابق ، عن زرارة ، عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) قال : وعليك بالإقبال على صلاتك ـ إلى أن قال ـ ولا تكفر ، فإنما يفعل ذلك المجوس .
 
 
 
2 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub by the preceding isnad from Zurara from Abu Ja`far عليه السلام.  He said: And upon you is to dedicate (yourself) in your salat – until he said: And do not do takfeer, for only the Zoroastrians do that.
 
 
 
 [ 9297 ] 3 ـ وعن محمد بن يحيى ، عن أحمد بن محمد ، عن حماد عن حريز ، عن رجل ، عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) ـ في حديث ـ قال : ولا تكفر ، إنما يصنع ذلك المجوس .
 
 ورواه الشيخ بإسناده عن محمد بن يعقوب ، مثله .
 
 
 
3 – And from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Hammad from Hariz from a man from Abu Ja`far عليه السلام in a hadith wherein he said: And do not do takfeer, only the Zoroastrians practice that.
 
And the Shaykh narrated it by his isnad from Muhammad b. Ya`qub likewise.
 
 
 
 [ 9301 ] 7 ـ محمد بن علي بن الحسين في ( الخصال ) بإسناده عن علي ( عليه السلام ) ـ في حديث الأربعمائة ـ قال : لا يجمع المسلم يديه في صلاته وهو قائم بين يدي الله عزّ وجلّ يتشبه بأهل الكفر يعني المجوس .
 
 
 
7 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn in al-Khisal by his isnad from `Ali عليه السلام in the hadith of the four hundred.  He said: The Muslim does not gather his hands (together) in his salat while he is standing before Allah عزّ وجلّ, resembling the people of kufr – meaning the Zoroastrians.
 
 
 
 
Narrated ‘Aisha:
That she used to hate that one should keep his hands on his flanks while praying. She said that the Jews used to do so
- Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 664
 
 

 

This was really fulfilling brother..thanks for sharing!

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This was really fulfilling brother..thanks for sharing!

 

Np sister. As for the mustahab act of women putting their hands on their chest though, I wouldn't practice that unless you ask your Marja first.

Edited by This field is required

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My Art History professor is having me do research on the topic of prayer hands in islam.  She wants me to research to see if it was at all possible 1). If any idol figures (votive figures) were present at the after the time of prophet Muhammed (SAW) 2). See if any historical context can pinpoint if at all possible there may have been an integration of the idol stance in prayer (mainly the hands, figures shown in the very first video, above). I am at a dead end right now but still researching and when I am finished I will post the published paper here (if I get that far...)

Edited by kbsquare

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Np sister. As for the mustahab act of women putting their hands on their chest though, I wouldn't practice that unless you ask your Marja first.

Salam alaykom

Do you know Ayatollah Sistanis view on this? Its just that in all the shia mosques and when i went to ziyara, i havent seen anyone do it?

Ws

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Putting a hand on the other In prayer is wrong and cannot even be proven through Mutawatir hadiths and the only sahih hadith about it by sunni standards is a hadith by a sahabi who only saw the prophet once. more authentic hadith describing the prayer of the prophet (saww) didn't mention this habit , the sunni Imam Malik desliked it and so did his students. It's an innovation in prayer that was invented by the umayyads i believe

 

ws


Sunnis might think they have tons of sahih hadiths proving it but all of them are flawed and have defects as far as i know apart from one i already mentioned about a sahabi who only saw the prophet (saww) once

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The Shia try to make people think that the sahaba and ahl al bayt hated each other and became enemies after the death of the prophet (peace be upon him) but that is a great lie they truly loved each other for the sake of Allah in fact Ali r.a had sons called abubakr and umar. You see the problem is when you blame the sahaba of disbelief and hypocrisy you are in other words blaming those who transmitted the Qur'an and sunnah to us through chain of narrators of of being kuffar so and if somone has this aqidah ( belief, creed) then he will inevitably start to doubt if the Qur'an has been disorted or not and changed by these "evil" sahaba and this  is exactly what the Shia ( rafidah) believe 
According to the book which the Shia ( rafidah) consider to be the most authentic hadith book, usool Alkafi, the Koran that jibril came with to Muhammad ( peace be upon him) was  17000 verses!!!( volume 2 page 634.) 
This is clear kufr and a false hadith invented by a sect wich promotes lying and calles it by another name ( tuqyah), the rafidah shia.
 the Qur'an today is composed of approximatly 6000 verses.
The gravest sin The Shia do is worshiping other than Allah( shirk). They ask dead people for help, blessing and other stuff which is clear shirk. The right of worship is exclucively for Allah none else. But the Shia rafidah call  the shirk they do in the city of  karbalaa shafa'a intercession . This false excuse was the exact same excuse used by the polytheists (mushrikin) of quraysh at the time of the prophet ( peace be upon him ) read surah yonis verse 18 and this will become clear( 

).: "And they worship besides Allah things that harm them not nor profit them and they (the polytheists)say: " these are our intercessors with Allah"..........."
It is also worth mentioning that the polytheists at the time of the prophet ( peace be upon him ) didn't believe that there idols created the universe in fact they believed that  Allah created everything alone this becomes clear if you read suarah nr 29: "And if you were to ask them who created the heavens and the earth they will surely reply: "Allah". How then are they deviated ( as polytheists and disbelievers)".(
)
To conclude the reason why they were polytheists was because they worshipped idols, trees, stones resembling pious people as well as worshiping Allah. The asked help and provision from dead people and objects they slaughtered to them and other forms of worship. They also did the above mentioned worship to Allah that didn't make them muslim. So to become muslim it is not enough that you worship Allah you rather have to disbelieve in and denounce the worship of everything other than Allah and combining that with worshiping Allah alone and submitting to him sincerely none else.
( p.s. the above mentioned translations are translations of the meaning of the ayah (Verses) from the "hilali- khan" translation)

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Salaamz.

Quote from gifttoshias site:

Muhammad ibn Jafar al-Kattani in his book "Nazmul mutanasira minal hadisal mutawatera" (#68) said:

"Ahadeth regarding putting one hand on other in prays".

It was narrated from:

1) Sahl ibn Sad as-Saadi.

2) Wail ibn Hujr al-Hadrami.

3) Abdullah ibn Masud.

4) Hulb at-Tai.

5) Ali ibn Abu Talib.

6) Abdullah ibn Zubair.

7) Abu Hurayra.

8) Jabir ibn Abdullah.

9) Haris ibn Qutaif as-Simali.

10) Amr ibn Hurays al-Mahzumi.

11) Yala ibn Murra as-Sakafi. (I (Effendi) say: Narrated by Tabarani, in the chain Umar ibn Abdullah ibn Yala, and he's weak. See "Majmau zawaid" (#2610)

12) Abdullah ibn Umar.

13) Abu Darda. (It was narrated by Tabarani in "al-Kabir" in stopped and elevated form. Stopped (mawquf) is saheeh, in elevated there are some narrators, which have no bio (in books on rijal). "Majmau zawaid" (#2611). Shaykh Albani said it's saheeh in "Saheeh al-jame" (#3038)

14) Huzayfa.

15) Aisha.

16) Abdullah ibn Abbas. (I say: It was narrated by Tabarani in "al-Kabir". Al-Heythami in "Majmau zawaid" (#2609) said: "Narrators are from people of saheeh").

17) Anas ibn Malik.

18) Shaddad ibn Shurahbil. (I say: Al-Heythami in "Majmau zawaid" (#2608) said: "Narrated al-Bazzar and Tabarani in "al-Kabir", in it Abbas ibn Yunus. His bio is absent (in books on rijal). Bazzar said: Shaddad ibn Shurahbil didn't narrated from prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam) except this hadith").

19) Muaz ibn Jabal.

20) Sufyan as-Sawri from many companions

It was also narrated in mursal form from:

21) Abu Umayah Abdulkarim ibn Abul Muharik al-Basri.

22) Tawus.

23) Hasan al-Basri.

24) Ata ibn Abu Rabah.

25) Ibrahim an-Nakhai. (end of quote from Kattani)

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Salaamz.

Quote from gifttoshias site:

Muhammad ibn Jafar al-Kattani in his book

 

 

(wasalam)

These are from your sources. Which is not a "Hujja (Evidence) " upon us. And this is concerning The "Obligatory Way" of praying. 

 

____________ 

 

(wasalam)

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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(wasalam)

These are from your sources. Which is not a "Hujja (Evidence) " upon us. And this is concerning The "Obligatory Way" of praying. 

 

____________ 

 

(wasalam)

U are quoting our sources trying to proof we are wrong. And we are doing the same while defending ourselves. Proving something to shias, it is a last thing that I want to do. Protecting Sunnis from shia doubts that is main goal.

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U are quoting our sources trying to proof we are wrong. And we are doing the same while defending ourselves. Proving something to shias, it is a last thing that I want to do. Protecting Sunnis from shia doubts that is main goal.

 

 

(wasalam)

(1) I did not quote anything.

(2) You have quoted and attributed something to us a "Evidence", which is not.

____________________________________________

(wasalam)

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Proving something to shias, it is a last thing that I want to do. Protecting Sunnis from shia doubts that is main goal.

 

Look how the Sunnis pray :

 

1-   Hanafi - Closed hands

2-   Hanbali  -  Closed hands

3-   Shafi    - Closed  hands

4-   Maliki   - Open hands

 

Before going further you should ask your Maliki brothers why do they offer prayer like Shii with open hands, instead of coming and trying to attack Shia as extremist sunnis.

 

You do have difference of opinion among you what can you say about it to the others?

 

Regards.

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Look how the Sunnis pray :

 

1-   Hanafi - Closed hands

2-   Hanbali  -  Closed hands

3-   Shafi    - Closed  hands

4-   Maliki   - Open hands

 

Before going further you should ask your Maliki brothers why do they offer prayer like Shii with open hands, instead of coming and trying to attack Shia as extremist sunnis.

 

You do have difference of opinion among you what can you say about it to the others?

 

Regards.

Seems to me brother you mistaken us with shias. Who is attacking here and who is defending.

Also you need to know that praying with closed or open hands is the last problem between shias and Sunnis. Our main difference is aqeedah of tawheed.

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Seems to me brother you mistaken us with shias. Who is attacking here and who is defending.

Also you need to know that praying with closed or open hands is the last problem between shias and Sunnis. Our main difference is aqeedah of tawheed.

 

 

 

(wasalam)

We Worship One God. Simple. Do you exclude us from this realm? 

 

__________________________________

(wasalam)

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Just one link explaining shia tawheed.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M5enLVVvqmQ

 

 

(wasalam)

Don't Post meaningless, videos posted my extremist, taking parts from here and there. I can post similar things also, to criticized your understanding of "Tawheeed", but I am sure that such are rejected by your sect. So please, before making false statements educate yourself, read, and ask your brothers in Islam personally. Either quote from our literature evidence or refrain from debating.

 

________________

(wasalam)  

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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