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kbsquare

Why Do Ahlul-Sunna Think Umar Will Enter Paradise?

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Discuss this please (no skirmishes please, and thank you!):

 

 

Assuming everything in sahih Bukhari and Sahih muslim is 100% authentic/true (as what sunni's believe).

 

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever prayed at night the whole month of Ramadan out of sincere Faith and hoping for a reward from Allah, then all his previous sins will be forgiven." Ibn Shihab (a sub-narrator) said, "Allah's Apostle died and the people continued observing that (i.e. Nawafil offered individually, not in congregation), and it remained as it was during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr and in the early days of 'Umar's Caliphate." 'Abdur Rahman bin 'Abdul Qari said, "I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, 'Umar said, 'In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)'. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubay bin Ka'b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, 'Umar remarked, 'What an excellent Bid'a (i.e. innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.' He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night." (Sahih Bukhari, Vol 3, Book 32, Hadith-227).

 

*Narrated by Abu-Huraira (Highly regarded sahih narrator in both bukhari and muslim (among others)*

 

Narrated Asma': The Prophet said, "I will be at my Lake-Fount (Kauthar) waiting for whoever will come to me. Then some people will be taken away from me whereupon I will say, 'My followers!' It will be said, 'You do not know they turned Apostates as renegades (deserted their religion).'" (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 88, Hadith-172).

Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount (Kauthar) and some men amongst you will be brought to me, and when I will try to hand them some water, they will be pulled away from me by force whereupon I will say, 'O Lord, my companions!' Then the Almighty will say, 'You do not know what they did after you left, they introduced new things into the religion after you’." (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 88, Hadith-173).

 

Also refer to: Holy Quran (33:36)

 

33_36.png
Transliteration
Wama kana limu/minin walamu/minatin itha qada Allahu warasooluhuamran an yakoona lahumu alkhiyaratu min amrihim waman yaAAsiAllaha warasoolahu faqad dalla dalalanmubeena
 
Sahih International
It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.
 
Sunni Translators of this verse:
 
Muhsin Khan
It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.
 
Pickthall
And it becometh not a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His messenger have decided an affair (for them), that they should (after that) claim any say in their affair; and whoso is rebellious to Allah and His messenger, he verily goeth astray in error manifest.
 
Yusuf Ali
It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.
 
Shakir
And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he surely strays off a manifest straying.
 
Dr. Ghali

And in no way should a male believer or a female believer, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a Command, have the choice in their Command. Whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, then he has readily erred away into evident error.

 

But one may ask "OP! Surely Tawraheeh prayer is not-so-bad of a innovation, its not harmful! Plus, Umar says, its a "good bid'aa (innovation)"

 

To you I answer: 

 

(1). Who is Umar to decide whats a "good" bid'aa (not that any can exist, refer point 2 (below)).

(2). No bid'aa is good! Bid'aa is Bid'aa! Yup! Certainly the above verse doesnt make any exceptions but if your still presistent:

 

Sahih Muslim Book 4, chapter 159, hadith # 1885:

Jabir b. Abdullah said: When Allah's Messenger (may peace he upon him) delivered the sermon, his eyes became red, his voice rose. and his anger increased so that he was like one giving a warning against the enemy and saying:" The enemy has made a morning attack on you and in the evening too." He would also say:" The last Hour and I have been sent like these two." and he would join his forefinger and middle finger; and would further say:" The best of the speech is embodied in the Book of Allah, and the beet of the guidance is the guidance given by Muhammad. And the most evil affairs are their innovations; and every innovation is error." He would further say:, I am more dear to a Muslim even than his self; and he who left behind property that is for his family. and he who dies under debt or leaves children (in helplessness). the responsibility (of paying his debt and bringing up his children) lies on me."

 

 

 

Edited by kbsquare

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When hitting urself is forbidden in Islam it is a great sin then why do shias who call themselves lovers of Ahlu Bayt do not follow this?...I know it was horrible and very sad woteva happened in the battle of Karbala but harming urself like this does not mean that you r really grieved by this i understan ppl have different ways of expressing their pain and sympathy but when one such thing as self flagellation is not encouraged to be praticed by Islam then why do shias prefer doing it? Majalis and nohas are a better and a civilized way of remembering our beloved Propeht Muhammad saww's family other than cutting ur bk into half and bleeding to death and beating ur chest until it aches and in many cases even bleeds...Why do ppl say that the shias are nauzubillah Kafirs? Rumour has it that the shias go to Iraq for their hajj and the shias call Ali's name while praying wot are ppl thinking and wot is happening to the world we just are splitting apart a day will come that we wont even bare living with each other in the same country Shias and sunnis are not different they follow the Holy Quran and i would like to mention this too that the shias have the same Holy Quran as the sunnis this point was to be mentioned cos i have heard many ppl saying the shias have a differnet Quran than the sunnis...they both have the same last prophet of Allaah,Muhammad saww...i agree shias have some acts which are to questioned but that doesnt mean shias are not Muslims

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According to the Sahihayn, the Prophet [sawa] said `Umar ibn Khattab will be in Jannah. That is why they believe he is there.

 

 

In that case, They would have to approve of the Innovation mentioned Above......Which is Against the verses....

______

(wasalam)

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Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever prayed at night the whole month of Ramadan out of sincere Faith and hoping for a reward from Allah, then all his previous sins will be forgiven." Ibn Shihab (a sub-narrator) said, "Allah's Apostle died and the people continued observing that (i.e. Nawafil offered individually, not in congregation), and it remained as it was during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr and in the early days of 'Umar's Caliphate." 'Abdur Rahman bin 'Abdul Qari said, "I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, 'Umar said, 'In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)'. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubay bin Ka'b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, 'Umar remarked, 'What an excellent Bid'a (i.e. innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.' He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night." (Sahih Bukhari, Vol 3, Book 32, Hadith-227).

 

*Narrated by Abu-Huraira (Highly regarded sahih narrator in both bukhari and muslim (among others)*

 

Bidah is bringing into religion something that was never done by the Prophet [saw].  There are two types of bidah, innovation in 'aadaat (customs, practices et cetera) which is permissible and then there is bidah in religion which is prohibited.  The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said, "Whoever invents (ahdatha) in this matter of ours what is not from it, then it is rejected. "[bukhaaree, Muslim]

 

And in another narration, he [saw] said, "Whoever performs an action not in accordance with our matter, then it is rejected. "[saheeh Muslim]

 

Coming to taraweeh, the reign of Abu Bakr [ra] was only for two and a half years nearly all of which he spent fighting the apostates.  When Umar [ra] became the Caliph, he reinstituted the Sunnah of Rasulullah [saw] which was to pray, in congregation, in the masjid during the nights of Ramadan.  It is narrated that people prayed behind him for two consecutive nights after which the Prophet [saw] did not come to the masjid on the third and fourth night.  When people saw Rasulullah [saw] the next day, they asked him why he [saw] did not come to the masjid last night.  The Prophet [saw] replied that he [saw] was afraid that night prayers in Ramadan would become obligatory upon Muslims and he [saw] asked them to pray at home.  But the first two nights, the Prophet [saw] did not forbid the Muslims from praying behind him, in congregation, during the nights of Ramadan.

 

In the books of Bukhari and Muslim, 'Aishah (raa) has been reported as saying:

"The Messenger of Allah (saas) observed Taraweeh prayer in the Masjid one night and people prayed with him.  He repeated the following night and the number of participants grew.  The companions congregated the third and fourth night, but the Messenger did not show up.  In the morning he told them, "I saw what you did last night, but nothing prevented me from joining you except my fear that it might be made mandatory on you in Ramadan."

 

Another narration,

On one occasion, in the holy month of Ramadan, the Prophet (saw) left his home and began to lead the Sahabah for Salat Al-Taraweeh.  As the second and third nights approached, more Sahabah (ra) came and performed Salat Al-Taraweeh in congregation with the Prophet (saw). On the fourth night, a greater number of Sahabah (ra) were present in the Masjid expecting to pray this new salat.  Surprisingly, on this night the Prophet (saw) did not come out to lead Salat Al-Taraweeh.  The Sahabah (ra) patiently waited all night.  When the Prophet (saw) finally emerged for the Fajr prayer, he stated to his Sahabah, "I knew you were waiting for me, but I did not come out to lead Salat Al-Taraweeh last night because I was afraid it might become an obligation (Fardh) on the Ummah, which they might find difficult to fulfill" (Bukhari, h872; Muslim, h1271; Abu Dawood, h1166).

 

Umar [ra], when he became the Caliph, noticed that Muslims - during Ramadan - would gather and pray in small pockets in the masjid.  So he ordered for everyone to pray in jama'ah behind Ubay ibn Ka'ab.  Amongst the men, someone asked whether or not this would be bidah.  Umar [ra] replied, "what an excellent bidah" meaning even if people call it bidah, it is still an "excellent bidah" because it reinstitutes the practice of Rasulullah [saw] since he [saw] never forbade people from praying behind him (in jama'ah) during Ramadan.  For it has been related that, "Umar bin Al-Khattab attended the Masjid at night in Ramadan and saw people praying individually in every corner of the Masjid with a few in groups. He did not like the sight a bit. 'Umar said, `I thought it would be better to gather these under one Imam'. So, he combined them under 'Obayi bin Ka'ab and Tamimu Ad-Dari to alternate and lead the believers in eleven raka'ats of night prayer. The next day `Umar was in the Masjid which was full with Taraweeh prayers. He was delighted. He said: `Well, this is the best Bid'ah (innovation).' "

 

The Prophet [saw] only asked them to pray at home lest it becomes obligatory (or fardh) upon Muslims and then they wouldn't be able to keep up with it. 

 

"Some people say that performing Tarawih in congregation is a Bid`ah (innovation in religion) because it was introduced in the reign of 'Umar (May Allah be pleased with him). But this is not correct because it is established that the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) did not continue it out of fear that it will be made obligatory; otherwise he would have carried on with it. When the fear that this practice be made obligatory was over, 'Umar (May Allah be pleased with him) gave it the form of a Nafl prayer and revived the mode of performing it collectively, and thus fulfilled the desire of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam). In spite of all these facts, it is still permissible for one to perform Tarawih individually in the late hours of the night. Since ordinary people are not capable of performing it individually, the step taken by 'Umar (May Allah be pleased with him) is perfectly correct. If this had not been done, the majority of the people will have remained deprived of the blessings and reward of Qiyam-ul-Lail, which would have been a great deprivation indeed."  (Riyad-us Saliheen)

 

On a side note, have you prayed Taraweeh?  I usually aim for 25 or more nights during Ramadan and standing in salah for 1.5 - 2 hours straight is not a joke.  Now imagine if this was fardh upon us all!

 

 

Narrated Asma': The Prophet said, "I will be at my Lake-Fount (Kauthar) waiting for whoever will come to me. Then some people will be taken away from me whereupon I will say, 'My followers!' It will be said, 'You do not know they turned Apostates as renegades (deserted their religion).'" (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 88, Hadith-172).

Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount (Kauthar) and some men amongst you will be brought to me, and when I will try to hand them some water, they will be pulled away from me by force whereupon I will say, 'O Lord, my companions!' Then the Almighty will say, 'You do not know what they did after you left, they introduced new things into the religion after you’." (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 88, Hadith-173).

 

Two quick points:

1.  This narration does not apply to Umar [ra], rest assured.

 

2.  "Some people" or "some men" will be taken away and denied getting water from Rasulullah [saw].  The number of Sahaba [ra] were in excess of thousands, some say over a hundred thousand.  "Some" does not include his most closest companions like Abu Bakr [ra], Umar [ra] or Uthman [ra] with each of whom the Prophet [saw], or a member of his family [ra], married.

 

 

(1). Who is Umar to decide whats a "good" bid'aa (not that any can exist, refer point 2 (below)).

(2). No bid'aa is good! Bid'aa is Bid'aa! Yup! Certainly the above verse doesnt make any exceptions but if your still presistent:

 

 (1)  Umar [ra] only reinstituted the Sunnah of the Prophet [saw] at a time when revelation had stopped coming.  Hence, there was no fear of Taraweeh becoming fardh upon Muslims.  And when some questioned whether or not it is bidah, he replied by saying, "what an excellent bidah" because it reinstituted the Sunnah of the Prophet [saw] and made the whole ceremony more organised (everyone praying in jama'ah behind one imam as opposed to having scattered, small pockets all praying under the same roof).

 

(2)  Now that we are talking about bidah, let us talk about a bidah in aqeedah which is the worst form of bidah.  Please explain "Aliyun waliullah" in your shahadah and adhan for us :)

 

 

Edited by muslim720

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(bismillah)

 

 

First of all dear brother Praying 'Nawafil Salah' is a very virtuous act in Islam (especially during Ramadhan). But 'Tarawih' (which is 8 or 20 Rakah Salat after Isha (عشاء) Prayer and is offered by Ahle Sunnah does not fall into the category of this virtuous act due to the "Extras"  and Innovations attached to it. It is a lie upon the prophet (s) that Tarawih was his Sunnah. It is falsely claimed that: The prophet (s) offered Tarawih for 3 Nights. But then he stopped while he feared that Tarawih might become obligatory upon Ummah (as you have Stated above). However Dear brother the prophet (s) offered Tahajjud during those 3 nights and not Tarawih and please note that that one Tarawih is 20 or 8 Rakah prayer after Isha (عشاء) Prayer, But two the prophet (S) not even a Single time in his life offered any such 20 or 8 Rakah Salah after Isha (عشاء) prayer. What the prophet (s) offered for 3 nights, was only and only TAHAJJUD Prayer (which starts after Midnight). For proof, see the following hadith, where it is particularly mentioned that prophet (s) came for prayer only after the “Middle of Night”. 

 
We cite the following :
 
Narrated 'Urwa: That he was informed by 'Aisha, "Allah's Apostle went out in the middle of night (i.e. For Tahajud)  and prayed in the mosque and some men prayed behind him. In the morning, the people spoke about it and then a large number of them gathered and prayed behind him (on the second night). In the next morning the people again talked about it and on the third night the mosque was full with a large number of people. Allah's Apostle came out and the people prayed behind him. On the fourth night the Mosque was overwhelmed with people and could not accommodate them, but the Prophet came out (only) for the Morning Prayer.
 
-Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 32, Number 229
 
____________________________________________________________________________________________
So Dear brother Therefore, people must stop adding this theory that the prophet (s) that he prayed such 8 or 20 Rakah Salah after Isha Prayer and thus it is his Sunnah. Those who claim such Made-Theories  may prove to us that the present day Tarawih (i.e. Praying 8 or 20 Rakah Salat after Isha Prayer) was ever practiced by the prophet (s). However some people claim that the prophet (s) stopped the so called Tarawih Prayer (First) in Congregation and (Second) in Mosque, while he feared it to become obligatory upon Ummah. And while Rasool (saw) already passed away, therefore it can no more become compulsory for Ummah. Again, Somewhat between falsehood. Those who hold on to Tarawih are concentrating on “Non-Related” part of speech of the prophet (s), while completely neglecting the “Related One” and most important part of his Saying. So we shall Cite the Following:
 
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit: Allah's Apostle made a small room (with a palm leaf mat). Allah's Apostle came out (of his house) and prayed in it. Some men came and joined him in his prayer. Then again the next night they came for the prayer, but Allah's Apostle delayed and did not come out to them. So they raised their voices and knocked the door with small stones (to draw his attention). He came out to them in a state of ANGER, saying, "You are still insisting (on your deed, i.e. Tarawih prayer in the mosque) that I thought that this prayer (Tarawih) might become obligatory on you. So you people, offer this prayer (i.e. Tahajjud or the so called Tarawih) at your homes, for the best prayer of a person is the one which he offers at home, except the compulsory (congregational) prayer."  
 
(Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 134)
 
Thus The prophet (s) particularly referred to this Tahajjud (or the so called Tarawih) Prayer, and told: that one; Offer this Tahajjud (or so called Tarawih) prayer at your homes. Two; And at homes too, pray them individually (i.e. don’t start making Jamah (i.e. Congregation) at homes. Three; Offering these Nawafil individually at homes is better than Mosque till Qiyammah (and is irrelative of the prophet (s) being alive or dead) Therefore, it is Sunnat-e-Muwakkidah (i.e. Very Strongly Recommended) to pray Nawafil at homes, while praying this so called Tarawih is directly against this Strong Recommendation of the prophet (s).
____________________________________________________________________________________________
 

Also one might also add that it is It is not allowed to pray Nawafil in Congregation (Jammah) In the Islamic Law, it is not allowed to pray any kind of Nawafil in Congregation. The Defenders of Tarawih deny it and object why then Rasool (saw) offered the Nawafil of Tahajjud (which is also known as Qiyam-ul-Lail) in congregation for the 3 nights? The answer is, Rasool (saw) didn't offer any non-compulsory Nafl prayer during those 3 nights, but it was a compulsory prayer which he offered, and only due to this he allowed people to join behind him in congregation. Qiyyam-ul-Lail was made compulsory Only for the prophet (s) by Allah. As we read in the Quran: 

 

وَمِنَ اللَّيْلِ فَتَهَجَّدْ بِهِ نَافِلَةً لَّكَ عَسَىٰ أَن يَبْعَثَكَ رَبُّكَ مَقَامًا مَّحْمُودًا

 
[shakir 17:79] And during a part of the night, pray Tahajjud beyond what is incumbent on you; maybe your Lord will raise you to a position of great glory.
 
Therefore, the prophet (s) was only offering the Compulsory Prayer with Niyyah of “Fardh” (فرض) , and when people joined behind him, they only followed the Niyyah of Imam. Hence, it is wrong to say that Rasool (saw) made the Jamma’ah for any Nafl Prayer during his whole life.
 
_______________________________________________________________________________________


 

 

(2)  Now that we are talking about bidah, let us talk about a bidah in aqeedah which is the worst form of bidah.  Please explain "Aliyun waliullah" in your shahadah and adhan for us  :)

 

 

(1) To say "Ali Wali Allah" Is not Obligatory, But Mustahab.
(2) If one Takes it as "Part" of the Az'an as "Obligatory" , His Prayer is not accepted.
________________

(wasalam)

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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Thank you brothers, muslim720 and IslamicHistory for your posts/responses.  I am pleased that this topic is getting some attention from two very knowledgeable brothers.

 

Dear muslim720,

 

you put fourth this/these hadith/s:

 

The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said, "Whoever invents (ahdatha) in this matter of ours what is not from it, then it is rejected. "[bukhaaree, Muslim]

 

And in another narration, he [saw] said, "Whoever performs an action not in accordance with our matter, then it is rejected. "[saheeh Muslim]

 

You further argue that Umar ibn Khattab "reinstituted the Sunnah of Rasulullah [saw]" by making Taraweh prayer obligatory, I guess this is what you take "our matters" or "with our matters" to mean. From my understanding (of your argument); you are arguing that innovation (in this case making something that wasn't obligatory, obligatory) is acceptable as long as it conforms with "matter of ours" or "with our matter."  kind of a slippery-slope here if you ask me. Consider this scenario:

We know the prophet (saw) used to often fast on Fridays and as such many companions did the same please refer to, "It was a regular practice of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) to fast on Fridays due to the auspiciousness of this day. It has been narrated that very rarely would the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) not fast on a Friday."(Sunan Tirmidhi, no: 742).  Just like Taraweh prayer, companions thought there was some special merit or reward for fasting on Fridays, so they fasted on Fridays. the prophet noticed the masses doing the same and prohibited it, please refer to:

(1). Abu Hurayra narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “None amongst you should observe fast on Friday, but only that he observes a fast before it or after it.” (Sahih Muslim, no: 1144)

(2). Abu Hurayra narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Do not single out the night (preceding) Friday among the nights for prayer, and do not single out Friday amongst the days for fasting but only when one of you is accustomed to fast (on dates) which coincides with this day (Friday).” (Sahih Muslim, no: 1144)

(3). Imam al-Nawawi mentions that one of the reasons for the prohibition of observing a fast only on Fridays was so that people do not consider fasting on Fridays to be necessary. (See: al-Minhaj sharh Muslim, p: 858)

 

Implenting your logic behind taraweh prayer. If someone were to make fasting on Friday obligatory (like taraweh prayer) implies that they (the innovator) is only innovating in accordance with "matters of ours"/"with our matters" and the sunnah of Rasiuallah [saw], therefore Friday fasting should be observed (obligatory) on all muslims as a whole.

 

I can apply this logic to any other event/activity the prophet [saw], used to practice but was never an obligation on the ummah to do.

 

I hope you can see/detect the slippery slope in your argument, now.

 

Moving on, you say Umar "Reinstituted" the sunnah of Rassuiallah by implenting this "GOOD" innovation.  Please refer to: 

 

Quran [24:63]:

 

24_63.png
Sahih International
Do not make [your] calling of the Messenger among yourselves as the call of one of you to another. Already Allah knows those of you who slip away, concealed by others. So let those beware who dissent from the Prophet's order, lest fitnah strike them or a painful punishment.
Muhsin Khan

Make not the calling of the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) among you as your calling of one another. Allah knows those of you who slip away under shelter (of some excuse without taking the permission to leave, from the Messenger SAW). And let those who oppose the Messenger's (Muhammad SAW) commandment (i.e. his Sunnah legal ways, orders, acts of worship, statements, etc.) (among the sects) beware, lest some Fitnah (disbelief, trials, afflictions, earthquakes, killing, overpowered by a tyrant, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.

 

Sunnah of Rasuiallah = Messenger's commandment(s) (i.e. his Sunnah legal ways, orders, acts of worship, statements, etc.)

 

Please follow me here:  Prophet[saw] prays taraweh prayer, companions to the same for 2-3 nights, on the 3-4 night prophet [saw] stops.  He stops because he doesn't want what is not obligatory to be obligatory on the ummah (like the fasting on Friday!).  He even prohibits it and asks them to pray individually, following hadith (thank you brother, IslamicHistory): 

Narrated Zaid bin Thabit: Allah's Apostle made a small room (with a palm leaf mat). Allah's Apostle came out (of his house) and prayed in it. Some men came and joined him in his prayer. Then again the next night they came for the prayer, but Allah's Apostle delayed and did not come out to them. So they raised their voices and knocked the door with small stones (to draw his attention). He came out to them in a state of ANGER, saying, "You are still insisting (on your deed, i.e. Tarawih prayer in the mosque) that I thought that this prayer (Tarawih) might become obligatory on you. So you people, offer this prayer (i.e. Tahajjud or the so called Tarawih) at your homes, for the best prayer of a person is the one which he offers at home, except the compulsory (congregational) prayer."  
 
(Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 134)
 
So, we understand (thus far,hopefully):
 
(1). your slippery slope logic/argument behind what makes taraweh prayer obligatory, neccessary, is flawed and can be applied to anything that the prophet practiced but did not make it so for the ummah (with the example of friday fast, amongst others).
(2). To say, Umar ibn khattab did a service to the ummah by making taraweh prayer because he was following the "matters of ours" and the sunnah of rassiuallah [saw], this is also flawed.  The sunnah of rassiuallah [saw] is is (in part) to follow is orders (verse above/with translation [24:63] -> he ordered that taraweh to be stopped, many narrations attest to that -> that is why it is a "innovation."
 
PLUS:
 
you say, "Some people" or "some men" will be taken away and denied getting water from Rasulullah [saw].  The number of Sahaba [ra] were in excess of thousands, some say over a hundred thousand.  "Some" does not include his most closest companions like Abu Bakr [ra], Umar [ra] or Uthman [ra] with each of whom the Prophet [saw], or a member of his family [ra], married.
 
-Your definition of "some" is wrong.  the proper defination is "at least a small amount of people/things." It is actually an "unspecified amount." Meaning, 99,999 out of 100,000 could be denied and I can still use the word "some" to refer to the number 99,999. (I am in no way implying 99,999 would be actually be denied, lol).
 
-  Thank you brother muslim720; I have been able to grasp a much better understanding of why taraweh prayer is obligatory.  Please, continue. 
 
 
I would also like to add that no one asks irrelevant questions here.  I would very much like to stick to the topic at hand.  I have seen much to many times where a topic gets diverged, everyone gets heated, there are 30 irrelevant replies every day, and no one learns anything. Thank You!
Edited by kbsquare

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I would also like to add the following hadith to the argument:

 

“The progeny of the Prophet (s) say that congregation in Tarawih is an innovation”. [al-Shawkani, Nayl al-Awtar, volume 3, page 50]

 

Imam al-Baqir (‘a) and Imam al-Sadiq (‘a) were asked about the permissibility of praying optional prayers in congregation during the nights of Ramadan. They both narrated a tradition of the Prophet (s) where he said:

“Verily, the offering of nafila (recommended prayers) in congregation during the nights of Ramadan is an innovation… O people! do not say nafila prayers of Ramadan in congregation… . Without doubt, performing a minor act of worship which is according to the sunna is better than performing a major act of worship which is an innovation.” [al-Hurr al-`Amili, Wasa’il al-Shi`ah, volume 8, page 45]

 

finally,

 

 Al-Nawawi writes: 

 

“Malik, Abu Yusuf, some Shafi’i scholars, and others say that it is better to pray it individually in the home”. [al-Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim, volume 6, page 286]

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Bidah is bringing into religion something that was never done by the Prophet [saw].  There are two types of bidah, innovation in 'aadaat (customs, practices et cetera) which is permissible and then there is bidah in religion which is prohibited.  The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said, "Whoever invents (ahdatha) in this matter of ours what is not from it, then it is rejected. "[bukhaaree, Muslim]

 

And in another narration, he [saw] said, "Whoever performs an action not in accordance with our matter, then it is rejected. "[saheeh Muslim]

 

Coming to taraweeh, the reign of Abu Bakr [ra] was only for two and a half years nearly all of which he spent fighting the apostates.  When Umar [ra] became the Caliph, he reinstituted the Sunnah of Rasulullah [saw] which was to pray, in congregation, in the masjid during the nights of Ramadan.  It is narrated that people prayed behind him for two consecutive nights after which the Prophet [saw] did not come to the masjid on the third and fourth night.  When people saw Rasulullah [saw] the next day, they asked him why he [saw] did not come to the masjid last night.  The Prophet [saw] replied that he [saw] was afraid that night prayers in Ramadan would become obligatory upon Muslims and he [saw] asked them to pray at home.  But the first two nights, the Prophet [saw] did not forbid the Muslims from praying behind him, in congregation, during the nights of Ramadan.

 

In the books of Bukhari and Muslim, 'Aishah (raa) has been reported as saying:

"The Messenger of Allah (saas) observed Taraweeh prayer in the Masjid one night and people prayed with him.  He repeated the following night and the number of participants grew.  The companions congregated the third and fourth night, but the Messenger did not show up.  In the morning he told them, "I saw what you did last night, but nothing prevented me from joining you except my fear that it might be made mandatory on you in Ramadan."

 

Another narration,

On one occasion, in the holy month of Ramadan, the Prophet (saw) left his home and began to lead the Sahabah for Salat Al-Taraweeh.  As the second and third nights approached, more Sahabah (ra) came and performed Salat Al-Taraweeh in congregation with the Prophet (saw). On the fourth night, a greater number of Sahabah (ra) were present in the Masjid expecting to pray this new salat.  Surprisingly, on this night the Prophet (saw) did not come out to lead Salat Al-Taraweeh.  The Sahabah (ra) patiently waited all night.  When the Prophet (saw) finally emerged for the Fajr prayer, he stated to his Sahabah, "I knew you were waiting for me, but I did not come out to lead Salat Al-Taraweeh last night because I was afraid it might become an obligation (Fardh) on the Ummah, which they might find difficult to fulfill" (Bukhari, h872; Muslim, h1271; Abu Dawood, h1166).

 

Umar [ra], when he became the Caliph, noticed that Muslims - during Ramadan - would gather and pray in small pockets in the masjid.  So he ordered for everyone to pray in jama'ah behind Ubay ibn Ka'ab.  Amongst the men, someone asked whether or not this would be bidah.  Umar [ra] replied, "what an excellent bidah" meaning even if people call it bidah, it is still an "excellent bidah" because it reinstitutes the practice of Rasulullah [saw] since he [saw] never forbade people from praying behind him (in jama'ah) during Ramadan.  For it has been related that, "Umar bin Al-Khattab attended the Masjid at night in Ramadan and saw people praying individually in every corner of the Masjid with a few in groups. He did not like the sight a bit. 'Umar said, `I thought it would be better to gather these under one Imam'. So, he combined them under 'Obayi bin Ka'ab and Tamimu Ad-Dari to alternate and lead the believers in eleven raka'ats of night prayer. The next day `Umar was in the Masjid which was full with Taraweeh prayers. He was delighted. He said: `Well, this is the best Bid'ah (innovation).' "

 

The Prophet [saw] only asked them to pray at home lest it becomes obligatory (or fardh) upon Muslims and then they wouldn't be able to keep up with it. 

 

"Some people say that performing Tarawih in congregation is a Bid`ah (innovation in religion) because it was introduced in the reign of 'Umar (May Allah be pleased with him). But this is not correct because it is established that the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) did not continue it out of fear that it will be made obligatory; otherwise he would have carried on with it. When the fear that this practice be made obligatory was over, 'Umar (May Allah be pleased with him) gave it the form of a Nafl prayer and revived the mode of performing it collectively, and thus fulfilled the desire of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam). In spite of all these facts, it is still permissible for one to perform Tarawih individually in the late hours of the night. Since ordinary people are not capable of performing it individually, the step taken by 'Umar (May Allah be pleased with him) is perfectly correct. If this had not been done, the majority of the people will have remained deprived of the blessings and reward of Qiyam-ul-Lail, which would have been a great deprivation indeed."  (Riyad-us Saliheen)

 

On a side note, have you prayed Taraweeh?  I usually aim for 25 or more nights during Ramadan and standing in salah for 1.5 - 2 hours straight is not a joke.  Now imagine if this was fardh upon us all!

 

 

Two quick points:

1.  This narration does not apply to Umar [ra], rest assured.

 

2.  "Some people" or "some men" will be taken away and denied getting water from Rasulullah [saw].  The number of Sahaba [ra] were in excess of thousands, some say over a hundred thousand.  "Some" does not include his most closest companions like Abu Bakr [ra], Umar [ra] or Uthman [ra] with each of whom the Prophet [saw], or a member of his family [ra], married.

 

 

 

 (1)  Umar [ra] only reinstituted the Sunnah of the Prophet [saw] at a time when revelation had stopped coming.  Hence, there was no fear of Taraweeh becoming fardh upon Muslims.  And when some questioned whether or not it is bidah, he replied by saying, "what an excellent bidah" because it reinstituted the Sunnah of the Prophet [saw] and made the whole ceremony more organised (everyone praying in jama'ah behind one imam as opposed to having scattered, small pockets all praying under the same roof).

 

(2)  Now that we are talking about bidah, let us talk about a bidah in aqeedah which is the worst form of bidah.  Please explain "Aliyun waliullah" in your shahadah and adhan for us :)

 

 

 

 

Selam Alaykom,

 

I think the brothers gave you sufficient a'hadith from the Sahihayn concerning your first point. Therefore, I would just like to respond to your second point:

 

Absolutely no Shia regards 'Aliyun Wali Allah' as an obligatory sentence in the Athan, but rather it is Mustahab. 

 

Contrary to that, 'Salatu geyrun min al noom' was never included in the morning prayer of our prophet (s) but later included as an innovation. More information on this:

 

http://www.shiapen.com/fiqh/ali-un-wali-Allah/adhan-call-to-prayers.html

 

Wasselam

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Selam Alaykom,

 

I think the brothers gave you sufficient a'hadith from the Sahihayn concerning your first point. Therefore, I would just like to respond to your second point:

 

Absolutely no Shia regards 'Aliyun Wali Allah' as an obligatory sentence in the Athan, but rather it is Mustahab. 

 

Contrary to that, 'Salatu geyrun min al noom' was never included in the morning prayer of our prophet (s) but later included as an innovation. More information on this:

 

http://www.shiapen.com/fiqh/ali-un-wali-Allah/adhan-call-to-prayers.html

 

Wasselam

 

 

Yeah, I know that i said no side issues, but if anyone person of ahlul sunnah can please give a detailed reason as to why 'salatu geyrun min al noom' is included in prayer and who instituted it.  Thank you.

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Yeah, I know that i said no side issues, but if anyone person of ahlul sunnah can please give a detailed reason as to why 'salatu geyrun min al noom' is included in prayer and who instituted it. Thank you.

I guess this should be sufficient

http://twelvershia.net/2013/08/15/al-salatu-khayrun-min-al-nawm-part-1/

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"Also if `Umar (ra) had actually added a phrase to the Adhan then all the books of history would have mentioned it and all the scholars would have narrated it and recorded it just as they narrated and recorded his opinion on divorce and his prohibition of practicing the two Mut`ahs or his opinion on practicing Taraweeh in congregation ect…"

This is a quote from the site. Is the author agreeing that Umar actually had an his own "opinion" on other alleged innovations (including the one discussed in this topic). When has it been allowed that a ameer is allowed to have "his opinion" and ultimately constitute it as sunnah and way of the prophet (saws)

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Salam brother kb square,

Hope u r doing good Bruv,

I was just have a question,

Why did no one stopped this bad act of adding words in aadhan

(Salam)

I've learnt from the Sunni scholars that once during the Caliphate of Omar, adhan for Fajr was called out but Omar was still asleep, so a person came to him and shook him and said 'as-salaat-ul-khairum-minan'naoom' Omar like it very much so he added it to the adhan.

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(Salam)

I've learnt from the Sunni scholars that once during the Caliphate of Omar, adhan for Fajr was called out but Omar was still asleep, so a person came to him and shook him and said 'as-salaat-ul-khairum-minan'naoom' Omar like it very much so he added it to the adhan.

I don't know about that

Thanks anyways bro

Edited by Advocate123

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Salam brother kb square,

Hope u r doing good Bruv,

I was just have a question,

Why did no one stopped this bad act of adding words in aadhan

Salaam brother. That's a very good question. It was all down to the Ummah, To take things into account. Never mind about stopping the bad act of words, as you have put it, the Ummah never bothered to stop the badest man (Yazeed), from becoming Khaleefatul Muslimeen or to put and end to his rule. The Ummah didn't even bother to stand up, for the Ahlul Baith at Karbalaa.

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Salaam brother. That's a very good question. It was all down to the Ummah, To take things into account. Never mind about stopping the bad act of words, as you have put it, the Ummah never bothered to stop the badest man (Yazeed), from becoming Khaleefatul Muslimeen or to put and end to his rule. The Ummah didn't even bother to stand up, for the Ahlul Baith at Karbalaa.

Ok

But still

If adding words in azaan was such a derogatory act, than where was banu hashim.... What was there reaction.... Where was banu abbas..... What was there reaction.... Where was aal e abi talib...... What was there reaction..... Where was ahal e bayt.... What was there reaction....

JAZAK Allah KHER

Salaam brother. That's a very good question. It was all down to the Ummah, To take things into account. Never mind about stopping the bad act of words, as you have put it, the Ummah never bothered to stop the badest man (Yazeed), from becoming Khaleefatul Muslimeen or to put and end to his rule. The Ummah didn't even bother to stand up, for the Ahlul Baith at Karbalaa.

Ok

But still

If adding words in azaan was such a derogatory act, than where was banu hashim.... What was there reaction.... Where was banu abbas..... What was there reaction.... Where was aal e abi talib...... What was there reaction..... Where was ahal e bayt.... What was there reaction....

JAZAK Allah KHER

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Ok

But still

If adding words in azaan was such a derogatory act, than where was banu hashim.... What was there reaction.... Where was banu abbas..... What was there reaction.... Where was aal e abi talib...... What was there reaction..... Where was ahal e bayt.... What was there reaction....

JAZAK Allah KHER

Dear brother advocate 123,

How will knowing reaction of Ali(as) and ahlulbayt help you?

After known reaction you'll ask for hadeeth

After knowing hadeeth you'll ask for my hadith not your hadith

After proven from your hadeeth you'll debate on weak hadith and strong hadith

After hadith is established you'll question some narrator from it

Even if narrator isn't questionable then you'll ask how come for 1400 years its practised otherwise, obviously scholars would have read and did not find anything wrong or else someone would have corrected

In worst case you might even bring up five new things irrelevant to topic.

No offence but most of us debate to defend our beliefs and not find truth for I've have hardly seen anyone accept something with humility and say thanks to Almighty for guiding me and I accept what is presented to me.

May Allah guide us all

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Umar's innovations in brief:

 

-Removing 'haya ala khair il amal' from the Adhan because he thought he had the right to change jihad to Khair il amal.

-Adding al Salatu khairun min al nawm to the Adhan because he liked it.

-Making Salat al Taraweeh

-Altring the Sharia with regard to Christians.

-Banning intercession.

-pointing the finger towards the ka'ba in Salah

-Banning Mut'ah (both sorts)

-Banning the Prophet (pbuh) from writing his will.

 

This isn't a bid'ah but I don't think it helps that he pushed the door on Sayyida Fatimah (as).

 

If anyone needs elaboration I don't mind providing it.

Edited by Thaqalyn

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Dear brother advocate 123,

How will knowing reaction of Ali(as) and ahlulbayt help you?

After known reaction you'll ask for hadeeth

After knowing hadeeth you'll ask for my hadith not your hadith

After proven from your hadeeth you'll debate on weak hadith and strong hadith

After hadith is established you'll question some narrator from it

Even if narrator isn't questionable then you'll ask how come for 1400 years its practised otherwise, obviously scholars would have read and did not find anything wrong or else someone would have corrected

In worst case you might even bring up five new things irrelevant to topic.

No offence but most of us debate to defend our beliefs and not find truth for I've have hardly seen anyone accept something with humility and say thanks to Almighty for guiding me and I accept what is presented to me.

May Allah guide us all

Brother in search of light ,

Old topic man ,

I don't even feel like replying but still

For me

A divinely appointed imam cannot sit idle doing taqiya and doing nothing if the deen of his PROPHET PBUH is changing ..... This idea cannot be swallowed by any prudent man .....

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