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Ali-F

Have You Done Tatbir This Ashura?

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Tatbir is an act of love and its not for showing off. Love knows no bounds. If I did it, or if I did not, in either case its not any body else's business. If you want to know why its done then you need to understand love. No lover shares about the beloved. And only the naive or the wicked interfere.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Haram.

(wasalam)

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Tatbir is an act of love and its not for showing off. Love knows no bounds least of all codes of mullahs. If I did it, or if I did not, in either case its not any body else's business. If you want to know why its done then you need to understand love. No lover shares about the beloved. And only the naive or the wicked interfere.

 

Are you sure you know what Tatbir is?

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(bismillah)

(salam)

 

tatbir... Imam Hussein didn't say hurt OR shed your blood so to remember me, all he said was to " remember me".. 

 

Hazrat Muhammad (s.a.w):   حسين مني وأنا من حسين أحب الله من أحب حسين

"The men and the women of a particular sect of my followers, who will befriend my Ahlu l-bayt, will mourn for Hussain and commemorate his martyrdom each year in every century."

 

Imam Hussain was killed on the battlefield as he was offering his prayer in Sajdah.

INNA LILLAHEY WA INNA ILAIHEY RAAJEYOON.

Imam Hussain said “O my followers! Whenever you drink refreshing water remember me Or whenever you heard about a martyred or a lonely person, weep for me I am the son of the Prophet who was martyred cruelly, and then smashed me intentionally under the hooves of their horses.

I wish you all were present in Ashoora and saw how I asked them for water for my infant, but they refused to give.

 

(wasalam) 

Edited by Anisa Bandeh Khoda

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^bro, don't be surprised, if some of the people say Ay. Fayyadh, Shirazi, Najafi and others were no Alim. People should stick to their marjas. If one doesn't allow it doesn't matter and if one does allow same. If one doesn't follow a marja, then fine, make your own opinion based, anyway.

Also to the OP, it is an act, which no one should disclose, it is a personal matter.

Edited by Shiabro

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isn't islam a religion that emphasises moderation? prove how tatbir adheres to this notion.. its beyond that innit.. 

Sister, this beggs the answer for my second question. Why did Prophet Yaqoub cried his eyes blind for Yosouf (a.s)? He was also a Muslim. He was a prophet, he knew what was extreme, what was moderate, what was halal and what was Haram. 

 

 

 

The answer to these questions doesn't allow me to make a judgement too soon. Again, I am not pro tatbir. But am, just not sure about it. 

Edited by HabibKarimi

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Salam

Have you done tatbir this ashura? If yes, where and why did you do it?

 

Its none of your business.. 

 

(bismillah)

(salam)

Haram.

(wasalam)

Actually it depends on the person(Ayatullah) you are following (you are in "Tableegh" of). If he permits you then it is ok .. if not then dont... There are some leaders who allow and some who dont but the common view is as Ayatullah Khamenei says:

"This practice would, at the present time, give others a bad image of our school of thought."

Better that we tell our brothers why we do it before we do it.

But you cannot make a general statement for all !

It is a type of extreme Matam which is developed on the events of karbala 

Chain matam: whips on the the 4th imam and the women after sham-e-ghariban....Walking on fire: walking on the burning desert (4th imam)... e.t.c 

Syed ammar also had a lecture on this which INCLUDES TATBIR 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_N_t67hY6Y

 

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If Tatbir is haram then Owais al-Qarni (ra) did haram to break his teeth when he heard that the holy Prophet (pbuh) his beloved lost a tooth in Uhud and which was permanent damage compared to tatbir. And God did haram to send him bananas so he could eat. And everyone at the time did haram to not point it out. Same goes for Hz. Yaqoob (as) who lost eyesight crying for Yusuf (as). 

 

Come to realize why the mullah is against it and that is for purely political and apologetic reasons. And your not doing tatbir or being against it has done nothing and hatred towards Shi'at has only increased over time.


Listen to yourselves:

 

"Bro did you do tatbir?" "Why did you do it?" "Its haram."

 

Whats your excuse children?

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If Tatbir is haram then Owais al-Qarni (ra) did haram to break his teeth when he heard that the holy Prophet (pbuh) his beloved lost a tooth in Uhud and which was permanent damage compared to tatbir. And God did haram to send him bananas so he could eat. And everyone at the time did haram to not point it out. Same goes for Hz. Yaqoob (as) who lost eyesight crying for Yusuf (as). 

 

(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

Were these voluntary or involuntary expressions of grief? Were they spontaneous or non-spontaneous? Therein lies the issue, Darth.

 

Having organized self-cutting sessions out of 'love' for Imam Hussein (as) is certainly not involuntary nor spontaneous and therefore you are using a false analogy in order to emphasize your (invalid) point.

 

Wallahu A'lam.

 

(wasalam)

Edited by BuggyLemon

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(bismillah)

http://tatbir.org/?page_id=98

Wallahu A'lam.

Read the fatawa. Only 2 or so of them say it's haraam. The rest say it's only haraam under certain circumstances such as bringing ridicule to the religion (do it in private) or if it causes permanent serious harm (don't go crazy with it).

Most maraji' allow it, even if it comes with conditions. Only a couple completely forbid it.

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My point is that if someone does it out of grief then what. Do you know how physically painful grief on its own can be? I've already mentioned that its an act of love, so its not a ritual and only idiots would attempt to ritualize it, and only foolish people would do it to show off their Shianess, or think of it as a up for debate extension of some furoo-e-deen.

 

Get rid of your false assumptions and try to understand. How easy it has become to ionize you upon non-issues.

 

Now, how about I ask you all which ones of you did not mention Umar on this ashura? You see you have been subtly programmed and you are showing the expected reactions to all the false propaganda of the party of Shaitaan. So you defile the mention of the beloveds by mentioning creatures like Umar as they intended. You have ritualized everything and do not get the essence of it all.

 

And then some people think it wise to appease the party of Shaitan despite having the Quran telling you otherwise. How far will you back down. The Shaitaan is trying its hardest and is murdering you for telling the world that you exist and for manifesting your beliefs. It so hates truth and righteousness and those who uphold it. What Hussaini would bend to its wishes?

Edited by Darth Vader

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If Tatbir is haram then Owais al-Qarni (ra) did haram to break his teeth when he heard that the holy Prophet (pbuh) his beloved lost a tooth in Uhud and which was permanent damage compared to tatbir. And God did haram to send him bananas so he could eat.

 

Since I've heard people from the subcontinent repeat this story before, I'm curious if anyone knows the source for the story of Allah supposedly sending bananas to Owais al-Qarni after he broke his teeth? I've even heard some people claim that this is where bananas come from, but I doubt Darth Vader believes that (hopefully).

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its an act of love

 

(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

If it is done privately (so as to not cause ridicule or permanent harm), then it is fine in my honest (reconsidered) opinion. I can see how some may do it solely for love and not to show off or anything. Just as mut'ah can be abused, this can be abused, but to put a blanket generalization on the intentions of every 'Tatbiri' is unjust.

 

I go back on my previous statements and I agree that if your intention is pure and you make it not a cause of shame for our Imam (as), then it is okay.

 

I still disagree with public tatbir, etc., though. I hope you see why.

 

Mind set of the west. Globalization.

 

Point is, its man's choice of how he wants to show his love. Freedom of choice, just as others have freedom of abrogation.

 

You're right.

 

(wasalam)

Edited by BuggyLemon

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Muslims born in the west = Tabir is Haram

Muslims born in the east = Tabir is Halal

 

If I had to choose between two sides ready for battle, I'd rather pick the guys who are willingly ready to cut them selves before the enemy has the chance to do so.

 

How many of you hate tatbir because you assume from an emotional point that it is haram, the perception of how others see you, or lack of courage to cut your self.

 

How many of you love tatbir because your emotional side is higher then the logical side during that period.

 

I do not care if a man is willingly ready to cut him self for another, that to me shows loyalty. As long as that person has a heart of gold, he can shed blood for any cause.

 

 

If one has ever been in the area where tatbir is, all sorts of emotions go through ones mind and body, the smell , the blood, the sight. This symbolic act, shows how a real battlefield must have felt like. It gives courage to those who are weak of heart, riles the blood, wakes up that inner man, impresses upon the mind the price any man has to pay to stand up against injustice. That is blood. Thats why many cannot accept or comprehend it. They rather talk of fighting but faint when they see blood. lol

I some times wonder how come the fervor of Kofis cooled down so early, simple coz emotions subside,but logic dont.

 

  We all should amputate some organ to SHOW LOYALTY, and that should be from NAFS. We should behead our Nafs e Ammara in the remembrance and

 

mourning of Husayn a.s. People do tatbir and take leave from prayers of the day, either coz of najas clothes or bleeding wounds, yani Giving away ones

 

prayer right on the day Husayn was slaughtered.

 

Battlefield has fear, fear for life, family and belongings. attending majlis, and going to procession in a place like Hangu feels like battlefield when mortars rain 

 

down upon you. What in tatbir is like this....

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Since I've heard people from the subcontinent repeat this story before, I'm curious if anyone knows the source for the story of Allah supposedly sending bananas to Owais al-Qarni after he broke his teeth? I've even heard some people claim that this is where bananas come from, but I doubt Darth Vader believes that (hopefully).

 

Okay, lets forget this example then. How about Ibrahim (as) slaughtering his son Ismail (as). Where is the logic and your shariah in that? 

 

In fact, HH, since you're a staunch believer that Prophets and Imams are just like us, I would simply LOVE to see you mimic Ibrahim (as) and try and slaughter a loved one. We'll see if it gets replaced by a lamb or not.

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Mind set of the west. Globalization.

 

Point is, its man's choice of how he wants to show his love. Freedom of choice, just as others have freedom of abrogation.

 

It's ironic then that chest beating has become a ritual among Shias all over the world, even when it isn't part of their culture to mourn like that. Many Shias in the East will also judge other Shias who don't perform zanjeer or tatbeer as somehow lacking in love for the Ahlulbayt (as), or as cowards. That's not to mention how they would judge someone who doesn't even beat their chest or head.

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Salam!

 

To answer your Question: No I have not and neither has my Husband. I was born in the West and he was born and raised in the East and none of us have ever done tatbir nor has either of our family done that.

 

 

ws Salima

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Where have I ever said that Prophets and Imams (as) are just like us? Just because I don't believe they are all-seeing and all-hearing celestial beings who control the universe, it doesn't mean that I think normal people are 'just like them'. As for mimicking Nabi Ibrahim (as), when I get divine inspiration in a dream, then maybe I'll think about it. Sadly, I'm fairly sure I'd fail though. If it was meant as a test for one of the greatest people to have ever lived, who had already received many signs from Allah, as well as direct revelation, then clearly it can't be a test that someone like me would pass. Or else it would not be a test at all for someone like Ibrahim (as).

 

(bismillah)

(salam)

 

like that bro HH

they were way above and beyond us.

 

(wasalam)

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