History Of Tatbir Documentary

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

Not sure if this has been posted already. It's in Arabic.

 

It seems tatbir was founded by Christians, then the Sufis took hold of it and mixed it up with Shia cultural practices. Then the anti-'irafni Shia pretty much made it wajib, and the pro-'irfani Shia pretty much made it haram.

 

Also practiced by Thai Budhists during their Vegetarian Festival. (Watch 0:37 seconds).

 

 

and as most of us know, exported to the Philippines (probably by the Spanish)

 

[Persian Shia]

Tatbir is originated from the performances of  Sayyidah Zainab and Imam Sajjad peace be upon them both.

[Grief]

(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

JazakAllah Khair.

 

(wasalam)

Edited November 13, 2013 by BuggyLemon

[SlaveOfAllah14]

common someone please subtitle it :)

[IbnSohan]

From Fiqh perspective, I'd be more cautious. There are  Ulama like Kashif Alghitaa along others who said that cutting one's self is haram act, there are others who saw in that an extreme law, maybe they consider it  jaza'e (extreme show of sadness , like tearing cloths, slapping one's face)?.

 

So I'd not really go for it, staying away from shubuhat is better. But it seems that people do not consider the fiqh aspect of it, they defend it wholeheartedly because it is part of their subconscious, about how to properly express your love for a loss of someone dear.

Society that foster this tradition also foster the harsh judgement upon those who refrain from participating in tatbir not to say to openly oppose it. The society looks at them as improper Shia, lacking love and passion.

 

Problem gets bigger when each side start to accuse the others of taqsir or ghulu, doing bid'ah or killing a sunnah (tradition). In many instances, the rule of fuqaha would be that mourning on Imam Husain is mustahab (no matter what the way or method that is used to mourn imam husain) which would mean that tatbir if used to mourn imam husain it would be mustahab. Some will go further (I saw it coming from laymen mostly) and claim that the very act of head cutting is mustahab in itself. We do have hadiths on crying being mustahab specifically but we do not have specific hadiths about other sadness expression in specific (as far as I know). Those who claim that it is Mustahab bring usually a story of Zyyidah Zainab hitting her head.

 

To be honest, I think the talk about tatbir takes allot of the communal sense of sadness that takes over the Shia world and bring them together under one flag.

[Persian Shia]

Salamun Alaikum,  Anti-Sunnis Brothers and the real followers of Sunna of the prophet peace be upon him and his pure ancestry from all around the world.

 

Only one thing, among all of the accepted Shia Imamyya SCHOLARS are consensus on the ligality of the sacred Tatbir for the Master of Martyrs, the third Imam, Imam Hussain peace be upon him.

 

Among the current References I can name Grand Ayatullahs like Sadiq Shirazi, Saafi,Wahid Khurasani, Sistani who know Tatbir legitimate. As the Allama Yassir Al-Habir also approve the sacred act of Tatbir.

[kadhim]

Tatbir is originated from the performances of  Sayyidah Zainab and Imam Sajjad peace be upon them both.

I don't really feel like arguing about something so trivial, but just to prompt some thought on your part, if that were actually so, why then did it take 1200 years for such practices to appear?

[Ruq]

I think i saw something about the Thai practice before, or something similar in another country. They dont stab themselves each time they do it, its like holes made like a peircing that they pokes things through each time.

[Ali_Hussain]

This is a video of some sufis in Iraq self harming

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfBPR-6gjFA

Edited November 14, 2013 by Ali_Hussain

[Persian Shia]

My dear brother, kadhim

 

Imam Sajjad peace be upon him has done something like Tatbir__even more harmful__as well:

قام علی طوله و نطح الجدار بوجهه فکسر انفه و شجّ رأسه و سال دمه علی صدره و خرّ مغشّیا علیه من شدة الحزن و البکاء

دار السلام للمحدث نوری/جلد2/صفحه179

[Mu3lam]

I don't get why tatbir is such a big issue. Everybody mourns in their own way. If someone finds that cutting their heads with a qama is the proper way for them to mourn, let them do it. If someone else finds that a different way of mourning is more appropriate for them, let them do it. I find it really sad that people try to regulate such a personal and intimate thing as mourning. Everybody mourns in different ways. One that does tatbir should not be bothered if others don't do it and, likewise, one that does not do tatbir should not be bothered if others do it. It's a personal issue and most maraji' say that it is halal. I don't know of any that say it's wajib. I only know of one that has completely forbidden it (the others on that "long" list only make it haram under certain circumstances so it's misleading to say that they ban it outright).

[Grief]

I don't get why tatbir is such a big issue. Everybody mourns in their own way. If someone finds that cutting their heads with a qama is the proper way for them to mourn, let them do it. If someone else finds that a different way of mourning is more appropriate for them, let them do it. I find it really sad that people try to regulate such a personal and intimate thing as mourning. Everybody mourns in different ways. One that does tatbir should not be bothered if others don't do it and, likewise, one that does not do tatbir should not be bothered if others do it. It's a personal issue and most maraji' say that it is halal. I don't know of any that say it's wajib. I only know of one that has completely forbidden it (the others on that "long" list only make it haram under certain circumstances so it's misleading to say that they ban it outright).

(bismillah)

Assalamu Alayka Ya Mathloom ibn Mathloom

The special 'circumstances' largely being "inciting ridicule on the religion." Which it clearly has been doing since the onset.

Also, I might not be so against it if it were solely self - harm. Cutting babies' heads is absolutely unacceptable (in my opinion). I have seen this happen with my own two eyes.

Edited November 14, 2013 by BuggyLemon

[sayedamir2000]

Tatbir is originated from the performances of  Sayyidah Zainab and Imam Sajjad peace be upon them both.

 

Do you mean that Saydah Zainab (AS) and Imam Sajjad (AS) were the original ones that started tatbir?

Edited November 14, 2013 by sayedamir2000

[Persian Shia]

Salam brother, Lady Zainab and Imam Sajjad peace be upon them both were the first ones who harm theirselve while bewailing Imam Hussain peace be upon him.

[Mu3lam]

The special 'circumstances' largely being "inciting ridicule on the religion." Which it clearly has been doing since the onset.

I was more referring to the "if it causes severe physical injury then it is forbidden" clause, but you're right. I merely disagree with such a stance. People ridicule us for praying the way we do, that doesn't mean we stop. Personally, I don't to tatbir and I find it repulsive. But it's not my right to judge others, at the end of the day.

Also, I might not be so against it if it were solely self - harm. Cutting babies' heads is absolutely unacceptable (in my opinion). I have seen this happen with my own two eyes.

I agree with you 100%. Anybody that cuts the head of their child should be locked up for child abuse. When I'm discussing tatbir, I am thinking in the context of consenting adults. Not children.

[A true Sunni]

Salamun Alaikum,  Anti-Sunnis Brothers and the real followers of Sunna of the prophet peace be upon him and his pure ancestry from all around the world.

 

Only one thing, among all of the accepted Shia Imamyya SCHOLARS are consensus on the ligality of the sacred Tatbir for the Master of Martyrs, the third Imam, Imam Hussain peace be upon him.

 

Among the current References I can name Grand Ayatullahs like Sadiq Shirazi, Saafi,Wahid Khurasani, Sistani who know Tatbir legitimate. As the Allama Yassir Al-Habir also approve the sacred act of Tatbir.

 

Your post is full of innacuracies. But people like you dont let truth stand in the way of a statement.

 

All of the accepted  Shia Imamia SCHOLARS do not see Tatbir as legal. 

 

Ayatullah Khameni banned due to defamation of religion

Ayatullah Sistani banned due to defamation of religion

Ayatullah Najafi banned due to defamation of religion

Ayatullah Bashiri banned due to defamation of religion

Ayatullah Khomeini banned due to defamation of religion 

 

Finally you call scum like Yasser Habib Allamah. Sort of illustrates your standard of scholar

, I don't to tatbir and I find it repulsive. 

Here is the definition of repulse

 

1. 1.
   drive back (an attack or attacker) by force.

   "rioters tried to storm the Ministry but were repulsed by police"

   synonyms: repel, drive back, drive away, fight back, fight off, put to flight, force back, beat off, beat back, push back, thrust back; More

      
2. 2.
   cause to feel intense distaste and aversion.

   "audiences were repulsed by the film's brutality"

   synonyms: revolt, disgust, repel, sicken, nauseate, make someone feel sick, turn someone's stomach, be repulsive to, be extremely distasteful to, make shudder, be repugnant to, make someone's flesh creep, make someone's skin crawl, make someone's gorge rise, offend, horrify;More

    

1. 1.

   the action of driving back an attack or of being driven back.

   "the repulse of the invaders"

    

   You defend a practice that pushes people away frm the Ahlul Bait. On the Day of Judgement you will have to answer for all those that were repulsed from the Ahlul Bait

Edited November 14, 2013 by A true Sunni

[faith200]

Instead of letting ur blood go to waste go donate it

[Persian Shia]

A true Sunni

 

Salam upon you Muslim, do you give me back my greeting first of all? Look brother they are seven Marji'__references__in Shia world that are the most authenticated among them I can name grand Ayatullah Wahid and Saafi and greater than of them, Ayatullah Al-Shirazi who know Tatbir one of Sunna and Sha'air Al-Husainyya__emblems of Imam Husain peace be upon him__and actually Ayatullah Sistani as well. You can inquire.

 

Brother, Allama Al-Habib is approved by grand Ayatullah Shirazi, please do not offend Muslims. Thx

[Persian Shia]

Brother

faith200

 

 

Blood letting or cupping from the head is one of Sunna of the prophet peace be upon him and his pure family. Tatbir includes two Sunnas: cupping AND BEWAILING FOR THE MASTER OF THE MARTYRS peace be upon him and his nine sons

[Hasan0404]

Well the argument against actions like tatbir must be made in such a way that they are convincing and the references accurate, furthermore

 

the language must be as much polite as possible, no quarreling. Some brother pointed the inaccuracies of tatbir.org which I think should be

 

reviewed if there are any.

 

and Body belongs to Allah and it should never be disfigured by insignificant acts like tatbir, one must take care of it as much as possible so as

 

to present it in best way for the sacrifice, in the service of Imam e Qaim ajf. Every disfigurement in this path is a medal on his body, acknowledgement of

 

his faith.

 

Allah bless us all with shahadah.

[A true Sunni]

A true Sunni

 

Salam upon you Muslim, do you give me back my greeting first of all? Look brother they are seven Marji'__references__in Shia world that are the most authenticated among them I can name grand Ayatullah Wahid and Saafi and greater than of them, Ayatullah Al-Shirazi who know Tatbir one of Sunna and Sha'air Al-Husainyya__emblems of Imam Husain peace be upon him__and actually Ayatullah Sistani as well. You can inquire.

 

Brother, Allama Al-Habib is approved by grand Ayatullah Shirazi, please do not offend Muslims. Thx

 

 

Firstly I am returning your Salaam because you prompted me. However I dont usually exchange greetings with those whose attitude to Akhlaq is as of a person changing his clothes.

 

I hear you say how dare I question your Akhlaq. Well since you elevated scum like YH to the level of Allamah then all I can say is birds of a feather flock together.

 

Harsh yes but why trade patently false pleasentries. YH has made it his business to offend people. Those that follow him have no compunction about offending people so why should I.

Brother

faith200

 

 

Blood letting or cupping from the head is one of Sunna of the prophet peace be upon him and his pure family. Tatbir includes two Sunnas: cupping AND BEWAILING FOR THE MASTER OF THE MARTYRS peace be upon him and his nine sons

 

Do you guys never tire of lying and misrepresenting the truth

Edited April 26, 2014 by A true Sunni

[Nader Zaveri]

(salam)

(bismillah)

 

This is an excellent documentary, based off of my research, I have also deduced that it is a Christian-based (i.e. Self-flagellating Christians) concept that infiltrated Shee`ah Islam.

 

We should get together and translate this documentary and add closed caption, so those who do not understand the Arabic and only understand English will benefit from this, inshaa'Allaah.

 

(salam)

[Naveed Murtaza]

Tatbir Is an inhuman act. One who says this act belongs to Sayyidah Zaynab and Imam Ali Ibne Husayn (a) is questioning their temperament , endurance and Tolerance that means he/she is traducing them of not following the Quranic verses in favour of Endurance...

[Jaane Rabb]

My dear brother, kadhim

 

Imam Sajjad peace be upon him has done something like Tatbir__even more harmful__as well:

قام علی طوله و نطح الجدار بوجهه فکسر انفه و شجّ رأسه و سال دمه علی صدره و خرّ مغشّیا علیه من شدة الحزن و البکاء

دار السلام للمحدث نوری/جلد2/صفحه179

 

Please translate...

[Jaane Rabb]

^ Never mind, I found the translation...

[IQRA07]

Tatbeer is a BARBARIC practice.There is NOTHING Islamic about cutting yourself. Nothing.

G

Tatbeer should be outlawed. It is a disgrace to Shia