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In the Name of God بسم الله

Abu Bakr- Imam Jafar Familial Link

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

السلام عليكم

 

The mother of Imam Ja'far ibn Muhammad Al-Sadiq (as) was Farwah bint Al-Qasim, daughter of Al-Qasim ibn Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr. Making him the great great grandson of Abi Bakr ibn Abi Quhafa. However there shouldn't be an assumption that Imam Sadiq (as) loved Abi Bakr:

 

عن زرارة عنه " من جاء بالحسنة فله عشر أمثالها " قال: من ذكرهما فلعنهما كل غداة كتب الله له سبعين حسنة، ومحى عنه عشر سيئات، ورفع له عشر درجات

 

Translation: From Zurara: "Whoever comes with a good deed will have ten times the like thereof" he said: Whoever mentions those two, and curses those two every morning. Allah writes 70 hasanah for him, and erases 10 bad deeds, and raises him 10 levels.

 

Tafsir Al-'Ayyashi 1/387/140

 

والسلام

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Hahaha

When u establish link

Than u pose another question on top of it

This is not called being neutral or impartial

Muhammad bin Abu bakr irrespective was son of Abu bakr which makes al baqir the son in law of his family and al jaffar as sadiq as his great grand child.

Also brother hassan Abu bakr is the great grand father of the kids of imam baqir as and jaffar as sadiq as and goes on

Brother hassan yes there is a family link and can be double checked with a reference as well from a Shia source.

Also imam jaffar as sadiq as used to say that I am the son of Abu bakr from two different lineages.

The second one Is that imam jaffar sadiq as grand mother who is imam al baqir as mother in law is the daughter of Abdur Rehman bin Abu bakr, something down that road . I cannot remember properly but I m sure that there were two links from mothers side.

JAZAKALLAH KHER

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Salaam all,

 

Can someone please explain to me the biological/familial link between Abu Bakr and Imam Jafar (as).

Is it correct that on Imam Jafar's mothers side, he descends from Abu Bakr.

 

Thanks

 

Waleykum Salaam,

 

Yet it is correct that Imam Jafar and others Imam descend from Abubakr as-Siddiq. 

 

One of the Shia scholars Nimatullah al-Jazairi said that no one attacked the lineage of Abubakr because Imams descend from him. 

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Waleykum Salaam,

Yet it is correct that Imam Jafar and others Imam descend from Abubakr as-Siddiq.

One of the Shia scholars Nimatullah al-Jazairi said that no one attacked the lineage of Abubakr because Imams descend from him.

SUBHANALLAH Allah brother

May Allah SWT increase ur life and knowledge.

I second you on ur words bro

JAZAK Allah KHER

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Of course there was a link between them through Mohammad bin Abi Bakr who was a staunch Shia of Ameer ul Momineen (as).

It doesn't matter who it is through- what matters is the lineage of the Imam.

I hope this makes sense. The fact is, Abu Bakr had a huge role in shaping the future infalliable Imam (or Imams).

 

Waleykum Salaam,

 

Yet it is correct that Imam Jafar and others Imam descend from Abubakr as-Siddiq. 

 

One of the Shia scholars Nimatullah al-Jazairi said that no one attacked the lineage of Abubakr because Imams descend from him. 

Who are the other Imams with a link to Abu Bakr?

 

I'm finding it very difficult to reconcile the fact that a pure Imam (or Imams) could descend from Abu Bakr and be guides for the Muslims, yet at the same time descend from the supposedly evil Abu Bakr.

 

It is my opinion that Abu Bakr simply made mistakes- but he was not an enemy of the Ahlul Bayt or the Muslims of the time.

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It doesn't matter who it is through- what matters is the lineage of the Imam.

I hope this makes sense. The fact is, Abu Bakr had a huge role in shaping the future infalliable Imam (or Imams).

 

Who are the other Imams with a link to Abu Bakr?

 

I'm finding it very difficult to reconcile the fact that a pure Imam (or Imams) could descend from Abu Bakr and be guides for the Muslims, yet at the same time descend from the supposedly evil Abu Bakr.

 

It is my opinion that Abu Bakr simply made mistakes- but he was not an enemy of the Ahlul Bayt or the Muslims of the time.

 

The children of Jafar (i.e. Jafar Sadiq -> Musa bin Jafar (al-Kadhim) -> Ali bin Musa (Rida) etc) :)

 

You are correct. Abubakr as-Siddiq loved and respected Ahlul Bayt and the Ahlulbayt loved him. Infact, Jafar as-Sadiq considered him Imam of guidance and disassociated himself from those who disassociated themselves from Abubakr. Some people who loved to create fitna between Muslims fabricated narrations and attributed them to Ahlul Bayt where they curse the Sahaba. 

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The children of Jafar (i.e. Jafar Sadiq -> Musa bin Jafar (al-Kadhim) -> Ali bin Musa (Rida) etc) :)

 

You are correct. Abubakr as-Siddiq loved and respected Ahlul Bayt and the Ahlulbayt loved him. Infact, Jafar as-Sadiq considered him Imam of guidance and disassociated himself from those who disassociated themselves from Abubakr. Some people who loved to create fitna between Muslims fabricated narrations and attributed them to Ahlul Bayt where they curse the Sahaba. 

 

 

 

(1) If your going to point out the Narrations of Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (a.s) saying that "Abu bakr Birthed me Two times", this is a false Chain and a weak Among us, which I can prove so If you Desire.

(2) How does Abu abkr Respect Ahlulbayt (a.s)? is that we he left the Burial of the prophet (s), and Did not call Ali (a.s) to the Election, when they were electing a caliphate?

(3) Ja'afar Al sadiq (a.s) has made no Such Statements has you have made above.

___________

(wasalam) 

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(1) If your going to point out the Narrations of Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (a.s) saying that "Abu bakr Birthed me Two times", this is a false Chain and a weak Among us, which I can prove so If you Desire.

(2) How does Abu abkr Respect Ahlulbayt (a.s)? is that we he left the Burial of the prophet (s), and Did not call Ali (a.s) to the Election, when they were electing a caliphate?

(3) Ja'afar Al sadiq (a.s) has made no Such Statements has you have made above.

___________

(wasalam) [/quote

Salam brother Islam history

Hope u r doing good

As far as sayings of the imams are concerned , ill provide u references and u can check them INSHALLAH something will come out for both of our knowledge .

I think u r engaged in so many posts here so leave this for later. I had already asked u one question regarding the Imamate if u can get back to me on that. It would be really nice. I just want u to throw some light on it in few lines.

The emblem of my question was that what does Shia law say on the person who does not consider the imam as imam and goes against him or negates him????? JAZAK Allah KHER

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(1) If your going to point out the Narrations of Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (a.s) saying that "Abu bakr Birthed me Two times", this is a false Chain and a weak Among us, which I can prove so If you Desire.

(2) How does Abu abkr Respect Ahlulbayt (a.s)? is that we he left the Burial of the prophet (s), and Did not call Ali (a.s) to the Election, when they were electing a caliphate?

(3) Ja'afar Al sadiq (a.s) has made no Such Statements has you have made above.

___________

(wasalam) [/quote

Salam brother Islam history

Hope u r doing good

As far as sayings of the imams are concerned , ill provide u references and u can check them INSHALLAH something will come out for both of our knowledge .

I think u r engaged in so many posts here so leave this for later. I had already asked u one question regarding the Imamate if u can get back to me on that. It would be really nice. I just want u to throw some light on it in few lines.

The emblem of my question was that what does Shia law say on the person who does not consider the imam as imam and goes against him or negates him????? JAZAK Allah KHER

 

 

(1) Concerning the Narrations, On the issue "Abu bakr Birthed me Two times" that my dear friend is of Weak Chain, and also Rejected in our books concerning the Isna'ad. So at any level I see no use for such a topic, however it shows no connections between the Imam of that time (Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (a.s)) and to the person who has Disobeyed Ahlulbayt on Numerous Occasions.

(2) In in to Answer your Questions (I was Busy, so that is why I was unable to answer you, So you have my Apologies once again), You first asked what is the concept of Imamate for us? and you limited it to 8-12 lines According to the last Post we had. So my dear friend it is a Concept that is very clear in the Quran, that Only Allah appoints Whom he Wills, and Divine Guidance of Allah cannot end, even after the Death of the prophet (s), for he the prophet (s), choose Ali (a.s) as his Successor, and the position of the Successor of the prophet (s) is as Just as high in Guiding the Nation. In Many Narrations (if You Request I am Able to cite), that Allah has appointed Imam Ali (a.s) as the guide of his Nation and also verses Have came down concerning this issue (if you Request I am Able to cite) have him being the Guide after the prophet (s). The Concept of Appointed a Successor has started from When first Adam came down to earth, appointed the next guide for the nation to follow. Thus we find for example the Twelve Successor of Isa (a.s) and the Twelve Successor Which Allah has appointed for Bani Israel (In the Quran mentioned), and also the Successor of Prophet Musa (a.s) who was Harun (a.s) and than Later Yusha (a.s), and much others. So Guidance cannot Be tken away from earth it must exist at the end of times, and you and I both Believe in the One named the Imam Mahdi (a.f), which Allah has appointed as the last Caliph. Also in the Bukhari, Muslim, timirdi, and so on, there are many Narrations stating that there Twelve Caliphs after the prophet (s). That is why for that Particular reason we are called Shia'Ithna'ashari (meaning followers, and Twelvers). And we hold that Imam Ali (a.s) is the Successor after the prophet (s), and In many Narrations in your own books, where the prophet (s) said, Hold on to the book of Allah and My Ahlulbayt (a.s) and you will never Astray.

(3) One who rejects Imamate is not Deemed as a Disbeliever, but you cannot become a Faithful (Mo'omeen) unless you have faith in them, If for example the Imam Mahdi (a.f) Appeared, you are Obligated to Believe in him and the Caliphs Which Allah has Appointed before him.

___________________________________________________

(wasalam)         

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(1) Concerning the Narrations, On the issue "Abu bakr Birthed me Two times" that my dear friend is of Weak Chain, and also Rejected in our books concerning the Isna'ad. So at any level I see no use for such a topic, however it shows no connections between the Imam of that time (Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (a.s)) and to the person who has Disobeyed Ahlulbayt on Numerous Occasions.

(2) In in to Answer your Questions (I was Busy, so that is why I was unable to answer you, So you have my Apologies once again), You first asked what is the concept of Imamate for us? and you limited it to 8-12 lines According to the last Post we had. So my dear friend it is a Concept that is very clear in the Quran, that Only Allah appoints Whom he Wills, and Divine Guidance of Allah cannot end, even after the Death of the prophet (s), for he the prophet (s), choose Ali (a.s) as his Successor, and the position of the Successor of the prophet (s) is as Just as high in Guiding the Nation. In Many Narrations (if You Request I am Able to cite), that Allah has appointed Imam Ali (a.s) as the guide of his Nation and also verses Have came down concerning this issue (if you Request I am Able to cite) have him being the Guide after the prophet (s). The Concept of Appointed a Successor has started from When first Adam came down to earth, appointed the next guide for the nation to follow. Thus we find for example the Twelve Successor of Isa (a.s) and the Twelve Successor Which Allah has appointed for Bani Israel (In the Quran mentioned), and also the Successor of Prophet Musa (a.s) who was Harun (a.s) and than Later Yusha (a.s), and much others. So Guidance cannot Be tken away from earth it must exist at the end of times, and you and I both Believe in the One named the Imam Mahdi (a.f), which Allah has appointed as the last Caliph. Also in the Bukhari, Muslim, timirdi, and so on, there are many Narrations stating that there Twelve Caliphs after the prophet (s). That is why for that Particular reason we are called Shia'Ithna'ashari (meaning followers, and Twelvers). And we hold that Imam Ali (a.s) is the Successor after the prophet (s), and In many Narrations in your own books, where the prophet (s) said, Hold on to the book of Allah and My Ahlulbayt (a.s) and you will never Astray.

(3) One who rejects Imamate is not Deemed as a Disbeliever, but you cannot become a Faithful (Mo'omeen) unless you have faith in them, If for example the Imam Mahdi (a.f) Appeared, you are Obligated to Believe in him and the Caliphs Which Allah has Appointed before him.

___________________________________________________

(wasalam)

Thank you

That's nice of you brother Islam history

As to the first thing u mentioned ill provide u more references from imam jaffar as sadiq as , imam zain ul Abiden as and imam al baqir as . I was not emphasising on one particular one although even if its chain is weak but factually it is true that there were two lineages, but leave that aside

I like ur point when u said that if a person does not accept imamat is not deemed as disbeliever . Where I live this is said all the time that who ever does not believe is a kafir or a hypocrite because imamat is divine and all that stuff but u cleared my mind on this and thanks for that

But still u used the word he cannot be a faithful momin. I would than question was Hazrat Muhammad bin hanafiya who was the son and flag bearer of MOLA ALI AS in the battle of jamal instead of HASSNAIN KAREMAIN AS is not a faith ful momin. I would like you to not respond to the first part of this post as I will discuss that with u later INSHALLAH

if u can respond about the second part as regards to HAZRAT Muhammad bin hanfiyah? According to ur wording above he was not a faithful momin ??? Is that true??? Can son of MOLA E KAINAT IMAM ALI IBN E ABI TAKIB SHER E KHUDA MUSHKIL KHUSA AS be a unfaithful Muslim???

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(bismillah)

(salam)

And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham said to his father Azar, "Do you take idols as deities? Indeed, I see you and your people to be in manifest error" (6:74).

Ibrahim (AS) min Azar Al-Mushrik.

FA LA-A'NALLAAHO UMMATAN ASSASAT ASAASAZ ZULME WAL JAWRE A'LAYKUM AHLAL BAYT.

(wasalam)

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(bismillah)

Theoretically, Yes. Now what?

 

Being a child of the Imam does not make you immune from mistakes and sins. 

 

AFAIK, All of the son of al-Sadiq [as] that were alive at his death aside from Ali claimed Imamah. There, proof of their ability to be unfaithful.

 

في أمان الله

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Brother Islam history I m waiting for ur reply

 I would than question was Hazrat Muhammad bin hanafiya who was the son and flag bearer of MOLA ALI AS in the battle of jamal instead of HASSNAIN KAREMAIN AS is not a faith ful momin. I would like you to not respond to the first part of this post as I will discuss that with u later INSHALLAH 

Dear brother First of all I would Just like to say that Believing and following Ahlulbayt (a.s) as Required to be a Fellow Believer of Faith, does not mean that one is totally off the hook of all Actions that he is Exempted from, nor does it mean if one commits sin, but he follows Ahlulbayt (a.s) well be Considers as a "Faithful", rather it is a Criteria of being a "Faithful", for one must surely meet all the required Criteria to become a "Faithful". Concerning Muhammad Bin Hanfia, are you condemning him? Could you please state why you think he would not be a "Faithful"? or are you talking about someone else perhaps?

_____________________________

(wasalam)   

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Salam brother Islam history

Thanks for ur time

I think that Muhammad bin hanafiya was a faithful believer for what I know on his orders mukhtar as Saqfi killed all those who were culprits of Karbala

But again brother Islam history I want to stuck to the topic

U said that whoever does not believe in Imamate is not a a disbeliever but cannot be a faithful momin...

After following ur principle I think that he is not faith ful momin because he did not accept imam zain ul Abiden as as the rightly guided imam.

One more request as a matter of urgency

In one other thread I requested u about the references of ayatollah khoei and the scholar al haeri when they talk about that the sanad of narrations is good

I don't know the page number

If its easy for u than please give me scanned stuff as someone has pisses me off and wants to see with eyes

But if that takes ur much time than leave it

JAZAK Allah KHER

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Sunnis come with strange topics to defend their heroes the 2 most strange of them is why Imam Ali kept his sons name Umar and Uthman, which has been refuted so many times here, as if those names were the only names of the Caliphs and now this strange topic that Mohammad bin Abubakr's (who was the follower of Imam Ali (as) and loved Ahlulbayt unlike his father AbuBakr) daugher marrying the fifth Imam.

 

One should know that people are judged by their actions (read Bukhari of how AbuBakr robbed Fatima (as) and hurted her) and not by someone marrying an imam in his lineage etc.

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(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

From Adam came Muhammad.

From Adam came Yazeed.

 

(wasalam)

 

So much wisdom bro. I hereby bestow upon thee the coveted Darwin award and bow down to your intellect. You make Abu Huraira proud.

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Salam brother Islam history

Thanks for ur time

I think that Muhammad bin hanafiya was a faithful believer for what I know on his orders mukhtar as Saqfi killed all those who were culprits of Karbala

But again brother Islam history I want to stuck to the topic

U said that whoever does not believe in Imamate is not a a disbeliever but cannot be a faithful momin...

After following ur principle I think that he is not faith ful momin because he did not accept imam zain ul Abiden as as the rightly guided imam.

One more request as a matter of urgency

In one other thread I requested u about the references of ayatollah khoei and the scholar al haeri when they talk about that the sanad of narrations is good

I don't know the page number

If its easy for u than please give me scanned stuff as someone has pisses me off and wants to see with eyes

But if that takes ur much time than leave it

JAZAK Allah KHER

 

(salam)

 

Dear brother in the Narrations we have, Yes, Muhammad Ibn hanifa Has faced the Imam Zaid Al-Abideen (a.s) concerning the Imamate, but then the Imam Challenged him and took him to the rock which is Inside the Ka'ab, so if he turned out to be the Imam the rock will Respond to him, so Muhammad ibn Hanifa said to the rock "salam'o Alykom Ayohal haj'ar", but did not Reply, and When the Imam said "salam", It replied by saying: " Peace be upon be upon you, Ali Ibn Alhussain Ibn'Ali." and this Proved to Muhammad Ibn Hanifa who was the Imam, and so he Repented and accepted Zaind Al-Abdeen. (If you request a Source; I will provide you), But in our Faith dear brother even if you reject any of the Twelve you are not deemed as a "Mo'omin" but one is still a Muslim Believer.

 

Concerning the source of what you are Requesting can you please tell me what Quote you desire? and the Exact source? if possible.

(Wasalam)

 

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(salam)

Dear brother in the Narrations we have, Yes, Muhammad Ibn hanifa Has faced the Imam Zaid Al-Abideen (a.s) concerning the Imamate, but then the Imam Challenged him and took him to the rock which is Inside the Ka'ab, so if he turned out to be the Imam the rock will Respond to him, so Muhammad ibn Hanifa said to the rock "salam'o Alykom Ayohal haj'ar", but did not Reply, and When the Imam said "salam", It replied by saying: " Peace be upon be upon you, Ali Ibn Alhussain Ibn'Ali." and this Proved to Muhammad Ibn Hanifa who was the Imam, and so he Repented and accepted Zaind Al-Abdeen. (If you request a Source; I will provide you), But in our Faith dear brother even if you reject any of the Twelve you are not deemed as a "Mo'omin" but one is still a Muslim Believer.

Concerning the source of what you are Requesting can you please tell me what Quote you desire? and the Exact source? if possible.

(Wasalam)

Salam brother Islam history

I don't have the reference but I have heard that there was a sect at that time called kaysania and Muhammad bin hanafiya was its head but I still want to stick to the topic

The problem is out of one thing ten other shoot out but I still want to stick to the same topic

I would than like to know ur view about HAZRAT Zaid bin ali( zain ul Abiden) he did not accept imam al baqir as as the rightly guided imam

So as u said above , if that rule is applied on imam zaid bin ali ( zain ul Abiden as) than he is not a momim???? Ur thoughts on that would be apprecited brother Islam history

Also a scholar mentioned that Imamate is based on wasiyat... Is this true or false.

Regarding the reference ill write another post after this

Ayatollah Khoei in his book Mustanad Al-urwatul-Wuthqa book of fast vol 2

Shia scholar Muhammad Rida al-Haeri in his book نجاة الأمة في إقامة العزاء على الحسين والأئمة

I want to know where these scholars have said that fasting is permissible or in other words where they have said that narrations in favour of fasting are reliable

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I would than like to know ur view about HAZRAT Zaid bin ali( zain ul Abiden) he did not accept imam al baqir as as the rightly guided imam 

So as u said above , if that rule is applied on imam zaid bin ali ( zain ul Abiden as) than he is not a momim???? Ur thoughts on that would be apprecited brother Islam history 

 

 

(salam) My dear brother,

 

Are you talking about the Imam Ali ibn'Al hussain Zain Al-Abideen? he is the Imam of the time, and his Son is Imam Muhammad -Al BAqir (A.s) who is the next Imam after him. 

 

 

 

Also a scholar mentioned that Imamate is based on wasiyat... Is this true or false.

 

 

By the Term "Wasi" as in if you mean Appointing then Yes, for they are Appointed by Allah, I am sure you are very Knowledgeable about the Narration that the Religion of Islam "Cannot" continue Unless you have the Twelve Caliphs (Sahih Muslim) So when we come to the Reasoning of this These Caliphs Must be appointed by Divine Power, In other Words the Prophet (s) and Allah.

Or do you have a Different meaning in mind?

_________

(Wasalam)

 

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(salam) My dear brother,

Are you talking about the Imam Ali ibn'Al hussain Zain Al-Abideen? he is the Imam of the time, and his Son is Imam Muhammad -Al BAqir (A.s) who is the next Imam after him.

By the Term "Wasi" as in if you mean Appointing then Yes, for they are Appointed by Allah, I am sure you are very Knowledgeable about the Narration that the Religion of Islam "Cannot" continue Unless you have the Twelve Caliphs (Sahih Muslim) So when we come to the Reasoning of this These Caliphs Must be appointed by Divine Power, In other Words the Prophet (s) and Allah.

Or do you have a Different meaning in mind?

_________

(Wasalam)

Sorry brother Islam history

I meant imam baqir as brother Hazrat Zaid bin Zain ul Abiden as

He did not accept Imamate of imam baqir as

Further I think he declares himself to be the imam

Accordingly is he not a momin

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Sorry brother Islam history

I meant imam baqir as brother Hazrat Zaid bin Zain ul Abiden as

He did not accept Imamate of imam baqir as

Further I think he declares himself to be the imam

Accordingly is he not a momin

 

 

(salam) my dear brother,

Know very Well that Zaid Ibn Zain Al-abdeen, Accept the Imamate of Imam Albaqir (a.s) he even Went to him for advice on his Revolution. But Later  a group of people Decided to Take him as their Imam After his Death in battle, and then the zaidya Sect started. Who Believe that he was their Imam. And they also Refuse that there Will be Twelve Imams. 

 

____________________

Concerning What you have given me:

 

Shia scholar Muhammad Rida al-Haeri in his book نجاة الأمة في إقامة العزاء على الحسين والأئمة 

 

It says: The Survival of the Ummah (nation) is in Holding the event of the Martyrdom of Hussain (a.s) and the Imams.

Meaning that we should always Hold events when their day of Martyrdom comes, as we hold events during the Martyrdom of the prophet peace be upon him.

______________________

(wasalam)

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(salam) my dear brother,

Know very Well that Zaid Ibn Zain Al-abdeen, Accept the Imamate of Imam Albaqir (a.s) he even Went to him for advice on his Revolution. But Later a group of people Decided to Take him as their Imam After his Death in battle, and then the zaidya Sect started. Who Believe that he was their Imam. And they also Refuse that there Will be Twelve Imams.

____________________

Concerning What you have given me:

Shia scholar Muhammad Rida al-Haeri in his book نجاة الأمة في إقامة العزاء على الحسين والأئمة

It says: The Survival of the Ummah (nation) is in Holding the event of the Martyrdom of Hussain (a.s) and the Imams.

Meaning that we should always Hold events when their day of Martyrdom comes, as we hold events during the Martyrdom of the prophet peace be upon him.

______________________

(wasalam)

Salam brother Islam

I m working night shift tonight

I go home in the morning and ill sleep

Whenever I wake up I will send u a reference in which imam Zaid bin zain ul Abiden negates the imamat of imam baqir as

Not only that he further says that I m the imam

Till than take care of your self and thanks for the reference which I asked u about the book

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Salam brother Islam

I m working night shift tonight

I go home in the morning and ill sleep

Whenever I wake up I will send u a reference in which imam Zaid bin zain ul Abiden negates the imamat of imam baqir as

Not only that he further says that I m the imam

Till than take care of your self and thanks for the reference

 

(salam)

I think I know what you are Referring to my dear brother. So May Allah Reward you.

(Wasalam) 

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(salam)

I think I know what you are Referring to my dear brother. So May Allah Reward you.

(Wasalam)

Salam brother Islam history

Imam Zaid bin zain ul Abiden did not accept the imamat of Hazrat baqir as

They had an argument

I cannot translate the full narration in English but ill tell the jist.

They differed from each other . One said ill be the imam and other said ill be the imam. Imam Zaid said to the other that u cannot be the imam as u r sitting in the house behind curtains whereas the rulers are oppressing the general public. He further said that imam should be the one who fights for people and it is said that the imam Zaid fought and was hanged later on. It is English translation I have not written everything but I have given u the jist

I think u must me knowing the reference so point giving it but my question to u is that such a brave soldier of ahal e bayt is a Muslim but not a momin as per ur logic.

I know u have taken soft approach and I highly respect u for that brother Islam history because where I live Shia scholars say kafir and hypocrite to those who denies Imamate but leave this

Is Zaid bin ALI not a momin than as per ur logic

May Allah SWT forgive me for writing something which I should not due to lack of knowledge... AMEEN

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(salam)

My dear brother, I am not taking a Soft approach, I am taking the approach based on our faith and what that is from it, concerning your Statement that they "fought" over the caliphate is very wrong, and does not exist, as I have mentioned Earlier, The Imam Muhammad Al-Baqir (a.s) is the son of Imam Ali Ibn Al-Hussain Zain-Alabdineen, and he the Imam appointed his Own son as the caliph after him, and the son cannot object to his father, and you have provided no proof if your claim, as it also sounds as if manipulated by own enemies. Concerning Zayd Ibn Al Ali he Acknowledged Imam Al baqir (a.s) as his Imam, that is why he went asked him Whether he should face the oppression of Bani Ummiayah and the Abbasids, if he was an Imam why did he ask for advice from his own brother?.

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(wasalam)     

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(salam)

My dear brother, I am not taking a Soft approach, I am taking the approach based on our faith and what that is from it, concerning your Statement that they "fought" over the caliphate is very wrong, and does not exist, as I have mentioned Earlier, The Imam Muhammad Al-Baqir (a.s) is the son of Imam Ali Ibn Al-Hussain Zain-Alabdineen, and he the Imam appointed his Own son as the caliph after him, and the son cannot object to his father, and you have provided no proof if your claim, as it also sounds as if manipulated by own enemies. Concerning Zayd Ibn Al Ali he Acknowledged Imam Al baqir (a.s) as his Imam, that is why he went asked him Whether he should face the oppression of Bani Ummiayah and the Abbasids, if he was an Imam why did he ask for advice from his own brother?.

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(wasalam)

Salam brother Islam history

All the respect for you in the heart

I agree with ur answer regarding the soft approach thing, I just wanted to tell how it is portraits where I live but that's fine what you said.

Although he sought advice from IMAM BAQIR AS but he confronted him face to face on the matter of Imamate .

I am at my work right now , when I go home I will give you the reference that they confronted each other and the ones who followed hazrat zayd bin zain ul Abiden were called zaidiyah later on and considered him as the imam.

He also said to imam baqir as that who ever does not fight against the oppression cannot be the imam as that was his qualification to be an imam.

He sought advice from imam baqir as and if we see imam baqir as did not fight in collaboration with Hazrat zayd to overcome or finish the tyranny of banu ummayah he rather choose to remain secluded which is indicative of the fact that he did not go to war --------- which means hazrat zayd acted opposite to the way of the IMAM of that time who was imam baqir as

Hence he acted against the sunnah of imam baqir as and also confronted him for Imamate

According to ur principle he should not be considered a momin than ------ for he fought against the ummayah oppression and Shia books tell that he was hanged to the cross after he got martyred .

I m at sixes and sevens brother Islam history

U have clarified my few concepts but I can't comprehend this scenario....

JAZAK Allah KHER

Edited by Advocate123
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