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In the Name of God بسم الله

12 Facts About Fabricated Fast Of Ashura

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zainabia

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Shaykh Saduq said in al-Muqni`: And regarding the tenth of Muharram – and it is the day of `Ashura – Allah sent down the tawba of Adam Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, in it the Ark of Nuh Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã settled upon al-Judi, in it Musa Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã crossed the sea, in it `Isa b. Maryam Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã was born, in it Yunus Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã came out from the belly of the whale, in it Yusuf came out from inside the well, in it Allah turned (in forgiveness) to the people of Yunus Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, and in it Dawud killed Goliath. So whoever fasts that is has the sins of seventy years forgiven for him and the hidden (?) of his deeds are forgiven fro him.

Shaykh Mufid in said in al-Muqni`a: And there has come regarding the fast of the day of `Arafa and `Ashura what we have presented of choice (i.e. one may fast or not fast if one chooses), and there has come regarding it preference and there has come regarding it dislike …. And as-Sadiq Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã was asked about the fast of the day of `Ashura, so he said: Whoever fasts it his fate is the fate of Ibn Marjana and the Aal Ziyad. It was said: What is their fate? He said: The Fire. … (Shaykh Mufid continues) And someone who fasts the day of `Ashura based upon what the Nasiba believe regarding it of virtue in its fast for its blessing and felicity has sinned, and someone who fasts it for sadness of the affliction of the Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå and grief over what happen to his progeny Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã, then he has hit the mark and is rewarded. And someone who does iftar is to refrain from eating and drinking until after the zawal, then he is to eat without his satiety, and drink without his quenching, and not take pleasure in the food and drink. And he is to do in it as he does for the affliction to his father. And the sanctity of the Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå, Amir al-Mu’mineen Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, Fatima az-Zahra, al-Hasan and al-Husayn Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã is better than the sanctity of the father, and their affliction more solemn and greater.

The scholars after him seem to have followed this distinction.

Shaykh Tusi in an-Nihayah lists it amongst the fasts which one has a choice regarding whether to fast them or not.

In al-Mabsut he lists it as a recommended fast upon the aspect of affliction and sorrow.

Ibn al-Barraj listed it amongst the fasts whose recommendation has been emphasized, and said: And the fast of `Ashura upon the direction of sorrow for the affliction of the Ahl al-Bayt Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã.

Ibn Idris al-Hilli likewise lists it as a recommended fast upon the aspect of sorrow for the affliction of the family of the Messenger Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã.

Yahya b. Sa`id al-Hilli listed it as a recommended fast, upon the aspect of sorrow, and that it is narrated that the breaking of the fast in it is after `asr.

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/235007860-fatawa-of-the-ancients/page-5

 

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/fasting/recommended-fasts/chapter-20

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PART 2: SHIA TRADITIONS ABOUT FAST OF 'ASHURA

Opponents quote 8 Shia Traditions about Fast of Ashura from this link. But once again this is a useless practice by them. Let us begin with Allah's help. Insha-Allah.

1. None of the traditions above even  deal with  fast of Ashura due to "Passover" of Bani Israel (as has been mentioned in Sunni Traditions and which they believe) except for only ONE  Tradition (i.e. the tradition No. 5 in the link that posted above) which talks about fasting due to the "Passover" of Bani Israel.

Traditions 1, 6 and 8 give absolutely no reason for the Fasting.

Tradition 2 and 3 say it was due to "Atonement" and has nothing to do with with "happiness of Passover of Bani Israel". Same is the case with tradition 4 which is about fast of wild beasts.

2. While the 7th Tradition is about fast on Ashura due to the sorrow of Hussain and Imam Abu `Abdillah  weeping for him. Here is the tradition:

 

– Muhammad b. al-Hasan in al-Misbah from `Abdullah b. Sinan said: I entered upon Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام on the day of `Ashura [and I met him melancholic in color, sorrowful in appearance – in the masdar] and his tears were dropping upon his eyes like dripping pearls.  So I said: What is your crying from?  So he said: Are you in (a state of) heedlessness?  Do you not know that al-Husayn عليه السلام was afflicted in the like of this day?  So I said: What is your saying in regards to its fast?  So he said to me: Fast it without tabyeet (?), and break it without tashmeet (rejoicing at an enemies misfortune?), and do not make it a complete day of fasting, and your iftar is to be after the salat of `asr by an hour upon a drink of water, for verily in the like of that time from that day did the battle appear from the family of the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم [- to the rest of the hadith]

 

4. And lastly, the Scientific Fact about Fast of Ashura is undeniable. No Sunni or Shia tradition could deny it while it is like a "Universal Truth" that Bani Israel never fasted for "Passover" and this day of passover never  corresponded to 10th of Muharram in whole Madani life of Prophet (saw), but it was months away to 10th of Muharram in the 1st or 2nd Hijra year.

 

The last nail in Nasibi Coffin

The 5th Tradition (which is the ONLY tradition which suits the opponents claim of passover of Bani Israel) is itself a weak tradition:

عَلِيُّ بْنُ الْحَسَنِ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ زُرَارَةَ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَبِي نَصْرٍ عَنْ أَبَانِ بْنِ عُثْمَانَ الْأَحْمَرِ عَنْ كَثِيرٍ النَّوَّاءِ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ ع قَالَ لَزِقَتِ السَّفِينَةُ يَوْمَ عَاشُورَاءَ عَلَى الْجُودِيِّ فَأَمَرَ نُوحٌ ع مَنْ مَعَهُ مِنَ الْجِنِّ وَ الْإِنْسِ أَنْ يَصُومُوا ذَلِكَ الْيَوْمَ وَ قَالَ أَبُو جَعْفَرٍ ع أَ تَدْرُونَ مَا هَذَا الْيَوْمُ هَذَا الْيَوْمُ الَّذِي تَابَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ فِيهِ عَلَى آدَمَ وَ حَوَّاءَ ع وَ هَذَا الْيَوْمُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ اللَّهُ فِيهِ الْبَحْرَ لِبَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ فَأَغْرَقَ فِرْعَوْنَ وَ مَنْ مَعَهُ وَ هَذَا الْيَوْمُ الَّذِي غَلَبَ فِيهِ مُوسَى ع فِرْعَوْنَ وَ هَذَا الْيَوْمُ الَّذِي وُلِدَ فِيهِ إِبْرَاهِيمُ ع وَ هَذَا الْيَوْمُ الَّذِي تَابَ اللَّهُ فِيهِ عَلَى قَوْمِ يُونُسَ ع وَ هَذَا الْيَوْمُ الَّذِي وُلِدَ فِيهِ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ ع وَ هَذَا الْيَوْمُ الَّذِي يَقُومُ فِيهِ الْقَائِمُ ع

 

– And by his isnad from `Ali b. al-Hasan from Muhammad b. `Abdullah b. Zurara from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Abi Nasr from Aban b. `Uthman al-Ahmar from Kathir an-Nawa from Abu Ja`far عليه السلام.  He said: The ark adhere to al-Judi on the day of `Ashura, so Nuh عليه السلام commanded whoever was with him from the jinn and man to fast on that day.  Abu Ja`far عليه السلام said: Do you know what this day is?  This is the day in which Allah عز وجل forgave Adam and Hawa.  And this is the day in which the sea was split for the Children of Israel and Fir`awn and whoever was with him drowned.  And this is the day in which Musa عليه السلامdefeated Fir`awn.  And this is the day in which Ibrahim عليه السلام was born.  And this is the day in which Allah forgave the people of Yunus.  And this is the day in which `Isa b. Maryam عليه السلام was born.  And this is the day in which the Qa’im عليه السلام will rise.

 

Source:

al-Toosi,Tahdheeb al-Ahkaam, vol. 4, pg. 300, hadeeth # 14

Grading:

al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Da`eef (Weak)

--> Milaadh al-Akhyaar, vol. 7, pg. 116

Reason for the weakening of this is one narrator Katheer al-Nawaa':

كَثِيرٍ النَّوَّاءِ= Katheer al-Nawwaa', he is a Koofee and he is either an `Aami (Sunni) (per al-Bariq’s Rijāl) or a Zaydi Batriyya (per al-Ṭūsī’s Rijāl & al-Kashi’s Rijāl)

Katheer has been heavily condemned. There is a SaHeeH hadeeth in al-Kashi's Rijaal, where Imaam al-Saadiq  does a du'aa and says he does "bara'a" from him in "this world and the next" (See: al-Kashi, al-Rijaal,pg. 242, hadeeth # 441).There is another hadeeth where Imaam al-Baaqir   says that Katheer al-Nawwaa' is "heavily astrayed" (See: al-Kashi's Rijaal, pg. 240, hadeeth # 439).

Since this ḥadīth can be seen in Sunni books, and Katheer al-Nawwaa’ is said to be either Sunni or Zaydi, him being either of those two would probably be the reason why you see this type of narration coming from him.

Even Sunnies consider themselves this tradition (which is found in their books) about Adam & Hawa & Arch & Ibrahim & Younus to be week.

And lastly, as stated above, no Sunni or Shia tradition could deny the Scientific Proof that Jews never fasted on "passover" and this day never corresponded to 10th of Muharram during whole Madinian life of Prophet Muhammad (saw).

 

Eid day of Ashura: The Conspiracy of Bani Umayyah and their supporters
Najabah ibn Al Harith Al attar said I once asked Abu Jafar(as) about fasting on the day of ashura. He(the imam) said It is a discarded fast after the coming of Shahr Ramadan and what is discarded and abandoned is Heresy, Najabah then asked Abu Abdullah(as) after his father about it and he answered just like his father and then said “ it is a fast about which there is  not anything in the book or the established sunnah except the sunnah of the family of Ziyad for their murdering Al-Husayn Ibn Ali(as)

Source- Al kafi(book of fasting part 2) chapter 14 hadith number 4

 

I heard Zurarah(RAA) asking Abu Abdullah(as) about the fast on the day of Ashura, Abu Abdullah(as) said whoever fasts on this day his share for such fasts is like the share of ibn Marjana and the family of Ziyad, I then asked what was their share that day? he said(as) it is the fire, I seek protection with Allah against it and against the deeds against the deeds that take one closer to the fire.

Source- Al kafi(book of fasting part 2) chapter 14 hadith number 6

 

Fatwas of Maraja Karam

Ayatollah Sistani:

1756. It is Makrooh to fast on 'Ashura (10th of Muharram). It is also Makrooh to fast on the day about which one is not sure whether it is the day of 'Arafa or Eid-ul-Azha.

 

Ayatollah Khui:

1756. It is abominable to fast on Ashura (10th of Moharrum). It is also abominable to fast an the day about which it is not sure as to whether it is the day of Arafaa or Eidul qurban.

 

Let us end this article with this tradition of Imam Abu Abddillah:

 

– Muhammad b. al-Hasan in al-Misbah from `Abdullah b. Sinan said: I entered upon Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام on the day of `Ashura [and I met him melancholic in color, sorrowful in appearance – in the masdar] and his tears were dropping upon his eyes like dripping pearls.  So I said: What is your crying from?  So he said: Are you in (a state of) heedlessness?  Do you not know that al-Husayn عليه السلام was afflicted in the like of this day?  So I said: What is your saying in regards to its fast?  So he said to me: Fast it without tabyeet (?), and break it without tashmeet (rejoicing at an enemies misfortune?), and do not make it a complete day of fasting, and your iftar is to be after the salat of `asr by an hour upon a drink of water, for verily in the like of that time from that day did the battle appear from the family of the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم [- to the rest of the hadith].

 

Allahuma Sallay Allah Muhammad wa Aale Muhammad.

 

 

Conclusion:

1. Bani Umayyah were successful in bringing fabricated Traditions in Sunni Ahadith books, even their most Sahih books like of Bukhari & Muslim. 

2. And in Shia hatred, their opponents followed these fabricated traditions with blind eyes. 

3. In name of these fabricated traditions, they started denying/neglecting the Sunnah of Prophet (saw) i.e. his sorrow and his mourning the calamities of Hussain. 

4. In name of these Umayyad's fabricated traditions, they deny the sorrow of Ashura and want to replace it with Joy and Happiness and declare it Eid. 

 

5. Even if there was any fast of Atonemnet, still it is not contrary to showing sorrow of Hussain on 'Ashura (especially after it has been established that it was Sunnah of Prophet too). But Nasibies try to declare this sorrow Haram in name of this fabricated traditions by Umayyads and declare it a day of Joy and Happiness.

 

 

 

More about Shia Traditions about 'Ashura

 

وعلي بن الحسن بن فضال ، عن هارون بن مسلم ، عن مسعدة بن صدقة ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) عن أبيه ، أن عليا ( عليه السلام ) قال : صوموا العاشوراء التاسع والعاشر ، فانه يكفر ذنوب سنة

 

1 – Ali bin al-Hassan bin Fadhal,  from Harun b. Muslim from Mas`ada b. Sadaqa from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام from his father that `Ali عليه السلامsaid: Fast on `Ashura, the ninth and the tenth, for verily it atones for the sins of a year.

 

There is no Tawthiq for Mas`ada, unless you consider all the narrators of Tafsir al-Qummi Mawthuqin, and this not the famous opinion in the Madhab, thus countless scholars rule him as Majhul.

But even if you go with al-Khoei and rule Mas`ada Thiqah, then the path of at-Tusi to Ali b. al-Hassan b. Fadhal is weak.

محمد بن الحسن بإسناده عن علي بن الحسن بن فضال ، عن يعقوب بن يزيد ، عن أبي همام ، عن أبي الحسن ( عليه السلام ) قال : صام رسول الله ( صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم ) يوم عاشوراء

 

2 – Muhammad b. al-Hasan by his isnad from `Ali b. al-Hasan b. Faddal from Ya`qub b. Yazid from Abu Hammam from Abu ‘l-Hasan عليه السلام. He said: The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم fasted on the day of `Ashura.

 

Again, the chain of at-Tusi to Ali b. al-Hassan b. Fadhal is weak.

وبإسناده عن سعد بن عبدالله ، عن أبي جعفر ، عن جعفر بن محمد بن عبدالله ، عن عبدالله بن ميمون القداح ، عن جعفر ، عن أبيه ( عليهما السلام ) قال : صيام يوم عاشوراء كفارة سنة

3 – And by his isnad from Sa`d b. `Abdullah from Abu Ja`far from Ja`far b. Muhammad b. `Abdullah [Ja`far b. Muhammad b. `Ubaydullah – in at-Tahdhib] from `Abdullah b. Maymun al-Qaddah from Ja`far from his father عليه السلام. He said: The fast of the day of `Ashura is an atonement of a year.

 

 

There is no Tawthiq for Ja'far b. Muhammad b. Ubaydullah.

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So fasting is not permitted but self-flagellation is?

 

Allah [swt] says, “Indeed, the number of months with Allaah is twelve [lunar] months in the register of Allaah [from] the day He created the heavens and the earth; of these, four are sacred. That is the correct religion [i.e., way], so do not wrong yourselves during them… (Surah at-Taubah, verse 36).  And which are these four sacred months during which we should not wrong ourselves?  Dhul Qi'dah, Dhul Hijjah, Rajab and Muharram.

 

Is self-flagellation righting or wronging ourselves?  And logically, if you have to pick between self-flagellation and fasting (mentioned in the Qur'an many times), which one is Islamic?  Does Imam Hussain [ra] need our blood or does he need our prayers, our salawaat and for us to do good deeds (like pray more, recite the Qur'an, fast, et cetera)?

 

If only people stop for a minute and think.................if only!

Edited by muslim720
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So fasting is not permitted but self-flagellation is?

 

Allah [swt] says, “Indeed, the number of months with Allaah is twelve [lunar] months in the register of Allaah [from] the day He created the heavens and the earth; of these, four are sacred. That is the correct religion [i.e., way], so do not wrong yourselves during them… (Surah at-Taubah, verse 36).  And which are these four sacred months during which we should not wrong ourselves?  Dhul Qi'dah, Dhul Hijjah, Rajab and Muharram.

 

Is self-flagellation righting or wronging ourselves?  And logically, if you have to pick between self-flagellation and fasting (mentioned in the Qur'an many times), which one is Islamic?  Does Imam Hussain [ra] need our blood or does he need our prayers, our salawaat and for us to do good deeds (like pray more, recite the Qur'an, fast, et cetera)?

 

If only people stop for a minute and think.................if only!

 

 

(1) The verse you mentioned does not seek to prove your point so far, and also concerning the "blood" issue I have answered you in the previous post. So no need for such baseless language and I think the Article here condemning your narrations on this issue (taken from the Jewish), And sadly you have not Contributed to it so far.  

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One copy-pasted article deserves a copy-pasted response.

 

Point by point, it refutes what you have posted.  Lastly, it is interesting to see how the original poster has belittled Sahih Bukhari (by calling the two narrations "fabrications") but sees nothing wrong with the hadiths she has quoted from Musnad Ahmad, Ibn Majah, et cetera.......the authenticity of these volumes pale in comparison to the authenticity of Sahih Bukhari :)

 

https://www.facebook.com/notes/ben-abrahamson/a-refutation-of-post-mortem-of-this-fabricated-tradition-of-ashura/552114794814565

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One copy-pasted article deserves a copy-pasted response.

 

Point by point, it refutes what you have posted.  Lastly, it is interesting to see how the original poster has belittled Sahih Bukhari (by calling the two narrations "fabrications") but sees nothing wrong with the hadiths she has quoted from Musnad Ahmad, Ibn Majah, et cetera.......the authenticity of these volumes pale in comparison to the authenticity of Sahih Bukhari :)

 

https://www.facebook.com/notes/ben-abrahamson/a-refutation-of-post-mortem-of-this-fabricated-tradition-of-ashura/552114794814565

 

 

What have you refuted as you claim? And The reason for our Objection to the Two sahihs is due to the Claims from your side that such is all Trustworthy and Reliable and so yet many narrations in the Context Exist that Object to the Quran it self, and so we Condemn them, but as for Musand ibn Hanbal and the rest of the Sahihs, they are not Considered as All to be Authentic and so therefore they are Investigated with In knowing the chains.

___________

(wasalam)   

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One copy-pasted article deserves a copy-pasted response.

 

Point by point, it refutes what you have posted.  Lastly, it is interesting to see how the original poster has belittled Sahih Bukhari (by calling the two narrations "fabrications") but sees nothing wrong with the hadiths she has quoted from Musnad Ahmad, Ibn Majah, et cetera.......the authenticity of these volumes pale in comparison to the authenticity of Sahih Bukhari  :)

 

https://www.facebook.com/notes/ben-abrahamson/a-refutation-of-post-mortem-of-this-fabricated-tradition-of-ashura/552114794814565

 

 

The writer has tried to confuse the readers. Let us look at the falsehood in his arguments.
 
A) The tradition of 'Aisha
He presented the excuse that 'Aisha claimed about the fast of 'Ashura' according to Calendar of Qussay.
Ok, fine. 
But how are you now going to link it to the "Ashura of Muharram" of Islamic Calendar?
No where the tradition of 'Aisha is telling that Prophet (saw) started fasting it on 10th of Muharram of Islamic Calendar. 
Therefore, if you want to practice it today, then please practice it according to the Calendar of Qussay, and not the Islamic Calendar. 
 
 
B) And regarding tradition of Ibn Abbas
Once again the author is presenting the excuse that Jews were fasting according to the calendar of Hillel II, that was 10th of Tishrei of 'Yom Kippur' which was  Sunday, 12th of month of Rabi al-awal  of 1st year after Hijrah (migration) of corresponding Islamic calendar. 
 
Now there are following problems in his arguments:
 
First Problem: Silly argument from Author that Yom Kippur is same as getting rid of Pharaoh
The author has totally failed in making any relation between 'Yom Kippur' (the day of atonement and for Jews) and between 'Passover' (or getting rid of Pharaoh as has been claimed in tradition of Ibn Abbas). 
 
What is Yom Kippur ? It happens on 10th of Tishrei, and celebrated as 'day of atonement' and during whole day Jews seek forgiveness for their wrong deeds.
What is 'Passover'? It starts on 15th of Nissan, and it lasts for 7 to 8 days and it commemorates the liberation of Bani Israel from Pharaoh as they left Egypt. 
 
At maximum, the author tries to confuse  people by saying that getting rid of Pharaoh was not Passover, but the day when Bani Israel went out of Egypt. The author is making a silly mistake about 'Passover'. The Passover does not mean getting rid of Pharaoh, but it is indeed leaving Egypt and it lasts for 7 or 8 days and it starts from the 15th day of Nissan.
 
Therefore, 15th of Nissan (whatever you want to say it ... either say it getting rid of Pharaoh, or say it leaving Egypt) has absolutely nothing to do with 'Yom Kippur' which is 10th of Tishrei.
 
It is really the 8th WONDER of world how Yom Kippur (10th Tishrei became the day of getting rid of Pharaoh. These 2 are totally different things and have nothing to do with each other. 
 
Therefore, the Tradition of Ibn Abbas is totally fabricated one. There is absolutely no way that Jews were celebrating any happiness for the event of getting rid of Pahraoh on 10th of Tishrei, 4383 of Jewish Calendar,  as Prophet (saw) entered the Madina. No, on 10th of Tishrei, even if they were fasting, then they were only seeking forgiveness for their sins. 
 
Moreover, if you still want to fast, then fast on the 12th of Rabi-ul-Awal and not on the 10th of Muharram. And fast for seeking forgiveness of your sins, and not celebrate it for happiness for getting rid of Pharaoh.
 
2nd Problem: In NO way Prophet (saw) ever fasted on 10th of Muharram
This was the biggest Problem for the author of how to convert 'Yom Kippur' into the day of 'Passover'. Therefore, he is using Full Conjectures, which are devoid of any sense. Let us see first what his conjecture is. He writes:
"it appears that the Prophet  (pbuh) observed Ashura according to the calendar of Hillel II (i.e. Rabi-ul-Awal of Islamic Calendar) for a time, and later God revealed to the Prophet  (pbuh) that due to the excesses of the Quraish, intercalation (the insertion of an extra month) should be abandoned altogether."

 

 

It is total CONJECTURE from the Author that any such revelation later appeared to Prophet (saw). 
 
And his claim is totally against the science too. In no way 10th of Tishrei could correspond to the 10th of Muharram during Prophet's life time during Madina. Prophet (saw) remained alive in Madina for only 10 years, while 10th of Tishrei and 10th of Muharram could only correspond with each other after 29  years (i.e. 29th year after Migration to Madina, while Prophet (saw) had already died after 10 years).
 
So, whatever conjecture this author use as his argument, still he could never ever prove that Prophet (saw) ever fasted on 10th of Muharram.  
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So fasting is not permitted but self-flagellation is?

 

Allah [swt] says, “Indeed, the number of months with Allaah is twelve [lunar] months in the register of Allaah [from] the day He created the heavens and the earth; of these, four are sacred. That is the correct religion [i.e., way], so do not wrong yourselves during them… (Surah at-Taubah, verse 36).  And which are these four sacred months during which we should not wrong ourselves?  Dhul Qi'dah, Dhul Hijjah, Rajab and Muharram.

 

Is self-flagellation righting or wronging ourselves?  And logically, if you have to pick between self-flagellation and fasting (mentioned in the Qur'an many times), which one is Islamic?  Does Imam Hussain [ra] need our blood or does he need our prayers, our salawaat and for us to do good deeds (like pray more, recite the Qur'an, fast, et cetera)?

 

If only people stop for a minute and think.................if only!

 

I'd advise you to be a bit open minded not all Shi'as self - flagellate...I am a Muslim who honours Hussain ibn Ali through Amal, Prayer reading Quran...all your doing is generalising.. I could easily say that the 9/11 bombings all the members involved were from Ahlus Sunnah and all Ahlus Sunnah are terrorist!...does that mean all Ahlus sunnah are terrorists NO..but you have no problem generalising me with others yet I wouldnt do the same to you...

 

before asking other people to stop and think... maybe you should have listened to your own advice...

 

NOT ALL SHIAS DO THESE ACTS... and the quran clearly shows us how to deal with those who you disagree when the quran says:

 

'You will not to be questioned about our sins, neither will we be questioned for your actions. ' [34:25]

 

and if you want to talk logic then lets talk real logic without generalising....

 

"It saddens me to see that an ummah that claims to love the Prophet, that on the 10th of Muharram they remember and fast in the name of the Children of Isreal...YET THEY FORGOT ABOUT THE CHILDREN OF MOHAMMED(pbuh)"

 

I DONT SELF FLAGELLATE...I DO AMMAL, READ QURAN, PRAY SEEK NEARNESS TO Allah SWT.. yet im not arrogant enough to claim to speak logic about the household with so much confidence...yet im not arrogant enough to say I love the Prophet yet I neglect his family...yet im not arrogant enough to remeber the Children of Isreal and FORGET THE CHILDREN OF MOHAMMED(pbuh)...

 

Your main basis of attack is the act's of people..FORGET THE ACTS OF PEOPLE...appreciate the Act of Hussain ibn Ali...he done more for the religion of Islam that you could ever do......

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I'd advise you to be a bit open minded not all Shi'as self - flagellate...I am a Muslim who honours Hussain ibn Ali through Amal, Prayer reading Quran...all your doing is generalising.. I could easily say that the 9/11 bombings all the members involved were from Ahlus Sunnah and all Ahlus Sunnah are terrorist!...does that mean all Ahlus sunnah are terrorists NO..but you have no problem generalising me with others yet I wouldnt do the same to you...

 

before asking other people to stop and think... maybe you should have listened to your own advice...

 

NOT ALL SHIAS DO THESE ACTS... and the quran clearly shows us how to deal with those who you disagree when the quran says:

 

'You will not to be questioned about our sins, neither will we be questioned for your actions. ' [34:25]

 

and if you want to talk logic then lets talk real logic without generalising....

 

"It saddens me to see that an ummah that claims to love the Prophet, that on the 10th of Muharram they remember and fast in the name of the Children of Isreal...YET THEY FORGOT ABOUT THE CHILDREN OF MOHAMMED(pbuh)"

 

I DONT SELF FLAGELLATE...I DO AMMAL, READ QURAN, PRAY SEEK NEARNESS TO Allah SWT.. yet im not arrogant enough to claim to speak logic about the household with so much confidence...yet im not arrogant enough to say I love the Prophet yet I neglect his family...yet im not arrogant enough to remeber the Children of Isreal and FORGET THE CHILDREN OF MOHAMMED(pbuh)...

 

Your main basis of attack is the act's of people..FORGET THE ACTS OF PEOPLE...appreciate the Act of Hussain ibn Ali...he done more for the religion of Islam that you could ever do......

 

 

AMEEN! Good argument brother.  I love how our ahlul sunni brothers and sisters pull the "self-flagellation" argument every time.  Not all shias do it, its cultural practice rather than religious, many prominent marja have prohibited the act.  How many mofits or sunni shieks have gone through a systematic scientiifc check of the fast of muharram and found out that it just doesnt match up.  Hmmmm...nill, nada, none.  This reminds me, I was in a dialogue with a sunni guy who asked me when the 10th day of muharram was, because she didnt want to miss the fast.  After I answered her, she laughed and said, "yes, how can you shia forget the day you beat yourselves up..." This is the type of ignorance that I just cant bare anymore....

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So fasting is not permitted but self-flagellation is?

Stick to the topic brother. When you've nothing to say keep quiet or accept with humility if your ego doesn't stop you from doing so.

Easy way to reject, call it FABRICATION.

Hadith is either true or fabricated (keeping our capability to prove either aside)

What else did you expect ?

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Hadith is either true or fabricated (keeping our capability to prove either aside)

What else did you expect ?

 

Shia reject all the ahadith which refutes their beliefs, they are not aware of science of hadith by which a hadith is collected.

 

1. Sanad (a. reliable narators. b. chain of narators is not broken. c. the narators lived in same time, area, possibility of meeting each other directly. d. sane persons. etc)

2. Matan (should not contradict the Quran or the other teachings of Rasoolullah SAW).

Categorization based on reliability

    Sahih - transmitted through an unbroken chain of narrators all of whom are of sound character and memory. Such a hadith should not clash with a more reliable report and must not suffer from any other hidden defect.

    Hasan - transmitted through an unbroken chain of narrators all of whom are of sound character but weak memory. This hadith should not clash with a more reliable report and must not suffer from any other hidden defect.

    Da'īf - which cannot gain the status of hasan because it lacks one or more elements of a hasan hadith. (For example, if the narrator is not of sound memory and sound character, or if there is a hidden fault in the narrative or if the chain of narrators is broken).

    Mawdū - fabricated and wrongly ascribed to Muhammad.

    Maqlūb - It is that hadith, in two different narrations of which the names of narrators have been changed.

 

Categorization based on number of narrators

    Khabar-i mutawatir (also called khabar-i mashhur) - A mutawatir hadith is reported by such a large number of narrators that cannot be perceived to have jointly forged and narrated a tradition about an issue without a compelling force.[6] Sometimes a hadith is believed to be khabar-i mashhur. But a little research reveals that it has been transmitted by a single narrator in each of first three layers in the isnād. Such narratives are reported by a large number of reporters in the third or fourth layer. In the opinion of Amin Ahsan Islahi, all such narratives which are usually termed as khabar-i mutawatir should be thoroughly investigated.

    Khabar-i wāhid (pl.: akhbār-i āhād)- signifies a historical narrative that falls short of yielding certain knowledge. Even if more than one person reports the narrative, that does not make it certain and conclusive truth except when the number of narrators reporting it grows to the level that the possibility of their consensus on forging a lie is perfectly removed. Most of the hadith literature consists of individual isolated narratives.

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Famous Sunni historian Ibn Kathir states:

 

“The Nawasib of Syria used to contradict the Rafidha and Shia on the day of Ashura, they (Nawasib) used to bake, bath, use perfumes, wearing their best clothes and consider that day as feast”.

Al-Bidayah al Nihayah, Volume 8 page 220

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Fasting on 10th, coincidentally, helps the Wahabiyya keep their nikah intact by staying home. Haven't you heard? They believe that the mere sight of Zuljinah invalidates the nikah of a Wahabi. It also helps them remain oblivious as to what Tashayyu is all about.

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Zainabia, that was a wonderful piece you wrote, and I commend you for your research! I hate to break it to the Sunnis, but zainabia is right. We commemorate the drowning of Pharoah during the 7th day of Passover. Passover is an occasion of joy and feasting! Why would we fast?

[*]The Truth: 10th of Muharram is a day of “sorrow” and “great calamities” for Jews too

Subhan Allah! The truth is this that 10th of Muharram of 1st Hijri was not the day of “joy” for the Jews.

But a big Surprise, that was the day of great calamities and sorrow for Jews too.

“Tisha B'Av” is also a fasting day of Jews on 9th of the Jewish month Av.

Strange thing is this that this Tisha B'Av corresponded perfectly to the 10th of Muharram of 1st & 2nd Hijri of Islamic Calendar.

1. 10th muharram of muslim is equivalent to Sunday 25 July 622 C.E. (+1 day error according to Islamic Software maker). (Link).

2. 9th of Av, 4382 of jewish Calendar is equivalent to Sunday 25 July 622 C.E (Link).

This is priceless! Tisha b'Av is indeed the saddest day of the year for the Jewish people. In fact, the fact that Muhammad showed up in on this particular day would probably have been seen as a bad omen by the Jews of Medina. Perhaps it is one of the reasons they rejected him.

Note:

Another very strange thing is this that Jeremiah (see Jer. 52:12–13) dates the destruction of the First Temple to the tenth of Av (52:12ff.), while there is, however, no biblical witness for the ninth.

In case anyone is interested, the Talmud gives an explanation for this apparent inconsistancy:

[ON THE NINTH OF AV] THE TEMPLE WAS DESTROYED THE FIRST TIME. For it is written, Now in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month, which was the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard, a servant of the King of Babylon, unto Jerusalem. And he burnt the house of the Lord etc. And it is further written, Now in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month, which was the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard, who stood before the king of Babylon into Jerusalem etc. With reference to this it has been taught: We cannot say that this happened on the seventh, for it has already been stated that it was ‘in the tenth’; and we cannot say that this happened on the tenth, for it has already been stated that it was ‘on the seventh’. How then are these dates to be reconciled? On the seventh the heathens entered the Temple and ate therein and desecrated it throughout the seventh and eighth [of Av] and towards dusk of the ninth they set fire to it and it continued to burn the whole of that day, as it is said, Woe unto us! for the daydeclineth, for the shadows of the evening are stretched out. (Ta'anith 29a)

Anyways, this was a great read, thanks again zainabia!

Salam and Shalom!

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But diesnt fasting deoend upon the intent in one's heart. If it an act of respect (like a kind of hunger strike) for Hussain, then whats the problem.

 

I completely agree with you.

 

But sadly, as brother goldenhawk stated, sectarian people do things in order just to oppose being relating to Ahlulbayt who are the pillars of faith.

 

In Turkey, for example, there is some bidah/innovation of Ashure pudding just made that sad day to celebrate it as a happy feast.

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I completely agree with you.

 

But sadly, as brother goldenhawk stated, sectarian people do things in order just to oppose being relating to Ahlulbayt who are the pillars of faith.

 

(salam)

 

The Sunnis whom you call 'sectarian people' don't fast in order to oppose Ahlulbayt (ra) but they do it because it is the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (saw), whom the Ahlulbayt also followed, and they also fasted on this day.

Maybe you are not aware but your books are full of narrations falsely attributed to some members of Ahlulbayt (sons of Hussain) in which they are asked that "Amma (Sunnis) do this or do that" so the Imam tells them to "do the opposite of Amma (Sunnis) because opposing them is guidance." 

 

Some examples for you (these narrations are fabricated by sectarian people and attributed to Ahlulbayt who never said such thing):

 

It is narrated from Imam Jafar regarding the differences of hadith that he said : What opposes the Sunnis, then it is correct, till he said: Look at what they incline towards in their verdicts and reject it, and accept the opposite. 

Ibn Babuyah has narrated in Uyoon al-Akhbar from Imam Reza that it was said to him : An issue arises from which there is no escape and there is no Shia scholar in the city so that it can be asked from him. He said : If it is so, then go to the Qadhi of the city and whatever he says, take the opposite of it because in its opposition is guidance.

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It is narrated from Imam Jafar regarding the differences of hadith that he said : What opposes the Sunnis, then it is correct, till he said: Look at what they incline towards in their verdicts and reject it, and accept the opposite. 

Ibn Babuyah has narrated in Uyoon al-Akhbar from Imam Reza that it was said to him : An issue arises from which there is no escape and there is no Shia scholar in the city so that it can be asked from him. He said : If it is so, then go to the Qadhi of the city and whatever he says, take the opposite of it because in its opposition is guidance.

 

(salam)

 

Please provide an arabic reference and sanad, unless you copy-pasted that from a salafi propaganda website, which you almost certainly did.

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(salam)

 

The Sunnis whom you call 'sectarian people' don't fast in order to oppose Ahlulbayt (ra) but they do it because it is the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (saw), whom the Ahlulbayt also followed, and they also fasted on this day.

 

wa salam

 

I don't call sunnis sectarians. I call sectarians sectarians. The average sunnis today, in some cases, sadly follow sectarians in the history without knowing the truth.

 

And you did not quote my whole post, in which, I gave an example to that; the silly ashure pudding innovation in Turkey and celebrating Ashura as a happy feast, just to oppose the mourning for Ahlulbayt. The average sunnis in Turkey don't know and understand it, but sadly they folllow the sectarians in the history.

 

And in case you missed, I said I agreed with the brother and was OK with people fasting, because it stops the innovation of feast and Ashure pudding and all that just a little bit. And that people could fast in order to sypathize a little bit to the thirst and hunger of the martyrs of Karbala. And I suggest it to the people who do not join the shia Muslims in matam.

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(salam)

 

Please provide an arabic reference and sanad, unless you copy-pasted that from a salafi propaganda website, which you almost certainly did.

(wasalam)

Read the book, Ithna Asharia by Hur al-mili pg. 209, online:

http://lib.ahlolbait.com/parvan/resource/37838/%D8%B1%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A9_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AB%D9%86%D9%8A_%D8%B9%D8%B4%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A9_%D9%81%D9%8A_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B1%D8%AF_%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%88%D9%81%D9%8A%D8%A9/&from=search&&query=%D8%AD%D8%AC&field=subjectkeyword&collectionPID=〈=&count=20&execute=true

 

One narration is from al-Kafi ,the other from Uyun al-akhbar. 

 

 الحادي عشر : ما رواه عن أبي عبد الله عليها السلام في حكم اختلاف الحديث قال : ما

خالف العامة ففيه الرشاد إلى أن قال ينظر إلى ما هم إليه أميل حكامهم وقضاتهم

فيترك ويؤخذ بالآخر وفي معناه أحاديث كثيرة ( 6 ) .الكافي : ج 1 ص 68 

 

الثاني عشر : ما رواه ابن بابويه في عيون الأخبار عن الرضا عليها السلام أنه قيل له

تحضر المسألة التي لا بد منها وليس في البلد الذي أنا فيه أحد من أصحابنا أسأله

عنها فقال : إذا كان ذلك فايت قاضي البلد فما أفتاك بشئ فخذ بخلافه فإن الرشد

في خلافه ( 7 ) . عيون الأخبار ج 1 ص 214 ط النجف .

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One narration is from al-Kafi

 

 الحادي عشر : ما رواه عن أبي عبد الله عليها السلام في حكم اختلاف الحديث قال : ما

خالف العامة ففيه الرشاد إلى أن قال ينظر إلى ما هم إليه أميل حكامهم وقضاتهم

فيترك ويؤخذ بالآخر وفي معناه أحاديث كثيرة ( 6 ) .الكافي : ج 1 ص 68 

 

(salam)

 

The chain for the first narration is as follows:

 

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنْ صَفْوَانَ بْنِ يَحْيَى عَنْ دَاوُدَ بْنِ الْحُصَيْنِ عَنْ عُمَرَ بْنِ حَنْظَلَةَ

 

At first, the hadīth seems authentic as all of the narrators have explicit tawtheeq up until Umar ibn Handhalah. But, this hadīth is weak as 'Umar ibn Handhalah is majhool.

 

 

,the other from Uyun al-akhbar.

 

الثاني عشر : ما رواه ابن بابويه في عيون الأخبار عن الرضا عليها السلام أنه قيل له

تحضر المسألة التي لا بد منها وليس في البلد الذي أنا فيه أحد من أصحابنا أسأله

عنها فقال : إذا كان ذلك فايت قاضي البلد فما أفتاك بشئ فخذ بخلافه فإن الرشد

في خلافه ( 7 ) . عيون الأخبار ج 1 ص 214 ط النجف .

 

 

The one is also dha'eef, because the chain includes Ahmed ibn Muhammad al-Sayyari, who is dha'eef, as al-Najashi and al-Tusi both stated.

Edited by Ali al-Hadi
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(bismillah)

 

The first hadith that was mentioned is saheeh by many and the qara'in for the trustworthiness of `Umar b. Hazhila رحمه الله are strong. In any case, that doesn't matter. This principle is an established source of preferencing ترجيح in Imami Fiqh. However, it is not as the Sunni above - who is not unknown to be deceptive - has presented it. The principle is possibly used when established narrations conflict - and probably with no ways to reconcile them. As taqiyya was without doubt employed by the Imams عليهم السلام and their shi`ah, and apparently they عليهم السلام would sometimes employ taqiyya with their Shi`ah, even.

 

How often the faqih uses it, when, etc. These details are left for the fuqaha and their ijtihad.

 

So it seems rather prudent and sensible to use this qa`ida. I think the crux of the matter would be that even if the action at the end of the day was not in line with reality, we have an excuse in front of Allah عز وجل, insha' Allah.

 

والله الأعلم

في أمان الله

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(bismillah)

 

The first hadith that was mentioned is saheeh by many and the qara'in for the trustworthiness of `Umar b. Hazhila رحمه الله are strong.

 

(salam)

 

Are they? The external indicators of his trustworthiness are all weak, and therefore al-Sayyid al-Khoei رحمه الله concluded that there is no clear tawtheeq for him: أقول: إن الرجل لم ينص على توثيقه

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(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

Are they? The external indicators of his trustworthiness are all weak, and therefore al-Sayyid al-Khoei رحمه الله concluded that there is no clear tawtheeq for him: أقول: إن الرجل لم ينص على توثيقه

 

Sayyid al-Khu'i رحمه الله built his rijali foundation on particular Usooli assumptions that are too long for this discussion. His is not about historicity or the social workings of narration transmission of the Qudama, but for the "testimony" of trustworthiness for the probativity of narrations for acting upon. So, if he doesn't have a "shahada" from a Mutaqaddim, he will be majhool.

 

The foundation of many other scholars is less rigid and mathematical and approaches rijal from a more social scientific point of view. It takes into account the various Qara'in of dependability that point to the strength and weakness of narrators from the words and actions of the Qudama, and even to some extent the Muta'akhireen. For more on this view, please refer البحوث في مباني علم الرجال by الشيخ محمد السند [ha]

 

This is a crude summarization, so please go and read the various sources and view yourself, insha'Allah. I assume you can read Arabic.

 

Here's a topic where Bro. Islamic Salvation gives a translation to a small introduction to a section from al-Sanad's book: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235015314-qarainsim-in-rijal/

 

بالتوفيق إن شاء الله

في أمان الله

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Can anybody have a answer for this please ?

عن أبي الحسن عليه السلام أنه قال: {{صام رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم يوم عاشوراء}}

[تهذيب الأحكام (4/29) الاستبصار (2/134)، الوافي (7/13)، وسائل الشيعة (7/337)، جامع أحاديث الشيعة (9/475)، الحدائق الناضرة (13/370-371)، صيام عاشوراء (ص 112)].

On behalf of Abu Al-Hassan (as) that he said : “Rasool Allah (saw) fasted on the day of Ashoura.”

Shia sources:

1- Tahdeeb Al-Ahkam 4/29,

2- Alistibsar 2/134,

3- Wasael Al-Shia 7/337,

4- Jaame3 Ahadeeth Al-Shia 9/475,

5- Alhadaeq Alnadhera 13/370-371,

6- Seyam Ashoura 112

B.

عن جعفر عن أبيه عليهما السلام أنه قال: [[صيام يوم عاشوراء كفارة سنة]]

[ تهذيب الأحكام (4/300)، الاستبصار (2/134)، جامع أحاديث الشيعة (9/475)، الحدائق الناضرة (13/371)، صيام عاشوراء (ص 112)، الوافي (7/13)، وسائل الشيعة (7/337)].

Narrated from Jaffar from his father (as), that he said: “Fasting of Ashoura is forgiveness of one year sin.”

Shia sources:

1- Tahdeeb Al-Ahkam 4/300, Alistibsar 2/134,

2- Jaame3 Ahadeeth Al-Shia 9/475,

3- Alhadaeq Alnadhera 13/371,

4- Jamal luddin mentioned it in ‘Fasting of Ashoora page 112,

5- Al-Kashani 7/13

6- Hur in Wasael Al-Shia 7/337

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