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In the Name of God بسم الله

Revisitingthesalaf Refuted!

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Sorry, Never mind. I will In my time Inshalla Make a Refutation to their Articles If times lets.

(wasalam)  

Time's running out, some Shi'as are being affected by this heavily and it's put a large dent in their creed. 

Actually, please refute this post. I'll personally debate you on it as well.

http://twelvershia.net/2013/04/05/shia-praying-in-the-mosques-of-the-muslims-a-sign-of-hope-or-hopelessness/

Edited by Al-Afasy
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On 11/5/2013 at 9:34 AM, Al-Afasy said:

Wow I honestly posted this thinking that some people here would have good refutations but all I got instead was people either mocking it (without a valid reason) or copy-paste responses on a thread from Facebook. 

BarakAllahu feek. Or should I say, BarakAli feek and call it Tawasul? 

Are you the former Shirazi/yaser Habib Al-Afasy. Wow you have changed a lot...

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On 11/5/2013 at 9:52 AM, Al-Afasy said:

Time's running out, some Shi'as are being affected by this heavily and it's put a large dent in their creed. 

Actually, please refute this post. I'll personally debate you on it as well.

http://*************/2013/04/05/Shia-praying-in-the-mosques-of-the-Muslims-a-sign-of-hope-or-hopelessness/

Inshalla. Will Soon.

and who is Effected by it? 

(wasalam)

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Are you the former Shirazi/yaser Habib Al-

Afasy. Wow you have changed a lot...

Same one.

Inshalla. Will Soon.

and who is Effected by it? 

(wasalam)

I can't really say who because some of the members here know each other in real life and it would tarnish their reputation if people knew that they were having doubts in Shi'ism

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On 11/5/2013 at 10:21 AM, Al-Afasy said:

Same one.

I can't really say who because some of the members here know each other in real life and it would tarnish their reputation if people knew that they were having doubts in Shi'ism

I see. very Well. Inshall'a Will Start When time is at hand.

(wasalam)

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There is no point in even debating these people, some of their articles were badly exposed on the RTS facebook group! Nothing but trolls.

 

 

Amir al-mu'mineen [as] after hearing Ammar ibn Yassir [ra] asking and answering questions from Mughira Ibn Shaaba said: "O Ammar! Leave this man alone; he has only taken that part of the religion which he had required for the worldly benefits, (for the rest of the religion) he has, on purpose, embraced ambiguities so that he could justify his wrongdoings."

 

(Nahj-al-balagha, saying no. 405)

 

 

Generally, we should avoid engaging in debates as according to Imam Baqir [as], "they create doubts, invalidate one's good deeds and turn one into a complete wreck. One may say a thing and perhaps, he will not be forgiven. In the past there lived a people who ignored acquiring the necessary knowledge. Instead they sought a knowledge that was not required of them. They came to speak to Allah's self and they became confused. Their extreme perplexity was such that if called from the front they would reply to the back and to the front if called from the back."

Edited by Hussainiyat Zindabad
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Say BarakOmar and BarakAbuBakr feek, they are your true Gods that have appointed themselves as Caliphs/Imams :D

On 11/5/2013 at 11:43 AM, Hussainiyat Zindabad said:

There is no point in even debating these people, some of their articles were badly exposed on the RTS facebook group! Nothing but trolls.

True, I testify to this [I am also in this Group] :) Rijal worshipers failed totally :D

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On 11/5/2013 at 11:55 AM, Rasul said:

Say BarakOmar and BarakAbuBakr feek, they are your true Gods that have appointed themselves as Caliphs/Imams :D

True, I testify to this [I am also in this Group] :) Rijal worshipers failed totally :D

Brother, as I'm not using fb for these 10 nights, could you kindly show this person some of the things that were pointed out in the RTS group? :)

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Logged into my facebook account, and saw new refutations,

 

Verse of Imamat Ibrahim: Shia understanding of “Oppressors”, is it Qat`i or Dhanni? | Twelver Shia

 

Jibreel Ibn Mikael

 

Honestly this article is completely [Edited Out] and he's a freakin lier when he says that Shia narrations don't state that this verse refers to infallibility.

 

Jibreel Ibn Mikael

Al-Kafi Volume 1 “H 518, Ch. 15, h1

Abu Muhammad alQasim ibn al'Ala', may Allah grant him blessings, in a marfu‘ manner (rafa’ahu), has narrated from ‘Ad al'Aziz ibn Muslim the following:”

"......“Imamat is that particular distinction with which Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, has distinguished Ibrahim, His very close friend (alKhalil), after prophet-hood. This close friendship is the third stage (in the progression of spiritual degrees). It is a distinction with which He honored him and established his fame. He then said, “Behold! I have made you an Imam for the people.” Abraham, the close friend, then out of delight pleaded, “Please let it (Imamat) be in my offspring also.” Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, said, “My covenant does not go to the unjust ones.” (2:124)

Thus, this verse has declared the leadership (Imamat) of all the unjust ones as unlawful until the Day of Judgment and it has established it for those clean and free of evil and injustice. Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, bestowed him more honors in establishing Imamat in purified and clean persons of his offspring....”

 

 

 

Deen Ast Hussain: If things couldn't get any worse. Was Ibraheem (as) not a Imam while he was already a Prophet? if not why the need to designate the position of Imamah? Imamah is a status and Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì made it clear his covenant is not with the unjust. But despite this companions pledge Bayah to Yazid even after the atrocities of Karbala and Harah.

 

 

Ghulam Ali

 

When I went through this article, I could easily see the problem with what He is trying to do. LIke He says:-

 

//In our case, we believe in the authority of the Qur’anic verse about the Imamah of Ibrahim (as), and we believe that none of the oppressors received the covenant of Allah exactly as the text says, BUT can this text be used as Solid Clear Qat`i evidence for the Shia belief in the infallibility of their leaders?//

Now, Anyone should ask this gentleman........Mr! why on Earth are you then wasting our time when You accepted THE PRACTICAL IMPLICATION of the verse????that is to say, Imamat wont be given to oppressors..........

Then He says:-

//Part -4:

The Mushtaqq is only attributed to the one who is doing the act.

Defining the Mushtaqq:

This Arabic word simply means “Derived”. A Mushtaqq is a name that is taken from an action, for example:

The action is ‘Reciting’, we derive from it the name ‘Reciter’ and this last one points to the act and the one committing it.

Another example,

The action is ‘Guarding’, we derive from it the name ‘Guard’ which points to the act and the one committing it.

So as long as a certain man is guarding something, let’s say a gate or a castle, the Mushtaqq(derived) name ‘Guard’ can be attributed to him. Let’s say for example this man quit his job as guard and became a farmer, would we still be able to attribute the derived name ‘Guard’ to him? Or would he be now called ‘Farmer’?

In our case the Mushtaqq name is “Oppressor” and the action is “Oppression”. If a man repented and walked the straight path, would we still refer to him as “Oppressor”?.//

Now

He is trying to say that Imamat can be given to someone who has done Zulm in past, but He is not pondering about Future......What about that? Can that Imam do Zulm in future than, or will He be Protected thereafter?

If anyone says, he can do it in future, then in essence Word of Allah has gone nullified that He wont give it to Zalim, because at that time, He is ZALIM, and that can be verified by his discussion

If other point is taken that He would be Protected........He is accepting infallibility for the IMAM

As regards to the use of word ZALIM in this verse for infallibility, I have already quoted Sunni scholars who accepted it for that purpose in my article

https://www.facebook.com/notes/ghulam-ali/imamat-as-per-quran-books-of-ahlu-sunnah/661325270578538

 

 

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The Imamah of the Shia, a hidden call for the continuation of Prophet-hood. | Twelver Shia

 

Keyotik Eval

 

his argument is honestly pretty silly,he is trying to attack imamate on a logical basis. he is basically saying that having infallibles preserve the religion refutes the purpose of having a last prophet,I don't see how one negates the other. what he doesn't understand is that imamate is simply a branch from prophethood,just like the book,sharia,etc are from prophethood.

 

 

Deen Ast Hussain

 

So they should also accept Isa (as) to be dead because when he returns to earth he will be infallible also.

 

Jibreel Ibn Mikael

 

Al-Kafi Volume 1 “H 697, Ch. 53, h 2

Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from ibn abu ‘Umayr from alHusayn ibn abu al-‘Ala’ from abu ‘Abd Allah, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, who has said the following:

“One must refer to us (as the Divine Authorities) to find the the rules of lawful and unlawful matters but considering us as having prophet-hood is not valid.”

 

Jibreel Ibn Mikael

Al-Majlisi says the Hadith is Hasan

 

Deen Ast Hussain

I have other hadith also on this but are these people that stupid?

 

 

Jibreel Ibn Mikael

 

Renowned Sunni scholar Mawardi (d. 450 AH) wrote:

“Imamate is prescribed to succeed Prophethood as a means of protecting the Deen, and managing the affairs of this world”

Al-Ahkam al Sultaniyyah page 10 (Ta-Ha publishers, London)

Scan http://www.shiapen.com/.../2011/02/ahkam_sultaniyah_p10.jpg

Shah Ismaeel Shaheed Dehlavi comments on the position of the Imam:

“Imamate is the Shadow of the Prophethood…”

Mansab-e-Imamate, page 105

Scan http://www.shiapen.com/.../2011/02/mansab_imamate_p105.jpg

Allamah Shibli Numani stated in much better way:

“The rank of Imamat is actually a reflection of Prophethood and the nature of the Imam has been found to be very close to the nature of the Prophet”

Al-Faruq, page 325 (Published by Maktaba Madina, Urdu Bazaar, Lahore)

Scan http://www.shiapen.com/.../uploads/2011/02/al_faruq_p325.jpg

Imam Rabbani; Shaykh Ahmad Sarhandi while referring to the same rank of Imamate as Wilayah wrote:

“The gist of the discussion is that Wilayah is the reflection of Prophethood”

Maktubaat, Volume 2 page 253 (Idarah Islamiyah. Lahore)

Scan http://www.shiapen.com/.../02/Maktubaat_v2_p254_letter71.jpg

 

 

 

Ghulam Ali

 

These people make me surprised, they try to speak of logic, yet they know none

They say we do not believe in Khatam-e-Nabuwat. the point is, what is Nabi? He is one who bring Naba (News) related to religion in simple words. Now, that We believe the religion has perfected (Akmal), why would there be any need of Nabi now?

 I remember once an Ahmadi asked me this question that Why Cant Allah make more Nabi when He had done it in past; Is he no more capable of it?. I said How many Chief Martial Law administrators have you seen in India? He was surprised and said why are you speaking of this? I said plz do reply me. he said NONE. I asked are there no capable men there? He said there is no need for that since there has been no martial law there. I said: now that You accept that if there is no need, an act is not done. And We believe that religion has PERFECTED, so why wuold Allah send Nabi?

But we do need guidance............And Imam/Hadi is required

 

 

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please look here for the challenge:

[URL Edited]/index.php?showtopic=20498

Quote:

"This is a call for a one on one debate, any Shia who wants to join is welcome. Topic is "Was `Ali (ra) divinely appointed as Imam?"

This is the main pillar of Shia faith, so I assume they should at least have ONE strong explicit solid proof for it. I challenge the Shia to present ONE strong explicit solid proof for the theory of Wasiyah and Imamah and we'll discuss it.

(No more than one, and when we're done with it we can move to another)."

@TheIslamHistory

you are welcome!!!!!!!

So if you don't believe in divine appointment after the Messenger (pbuh) and you also don't believe that, the Prophet (pbuh) named and introduced his successor then, would you mind telling me, what exactly do you believe in after the Messenger (pbuh)???

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Quote
"see how `Ali (رضي الله عنه) praises `Uthman (ra)"

What can we do if a bunch of liars narrate such things about Ameer ul Mumineen (عليه السلام) and his praise for the Taghyun. 

I want to ask all those Ummavis (aka Sunnis), tell me from your narration who murdered Usman bin Affan and what were their affiliations?

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please look here for the challenge:

 

[URL Edited]/index.php?showtopic=20498

 

Quote:

"This is a call for a one on one debate, any Shia who wants to join is welcome. Topic is "Was `Ali (ra) divinely appointed as Imam?"

This is the main pillar of Shia faith, so I assume they should at least have ONE strong explicit solid proof for it. I challenge the Shia to present ONE strong explicit solid proof for the theory of Wasiyah and Imamah and we'll discuss it.

(No more than one, and when we're done with it we can move to another)."

 

@TheIslamHistory

 

you are welcome!!!!!!!

 

 

Start a Topic here and I am more  than Happy to.

(wasalam)

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Both sides will claim tall like HCY forum and the site in question (OP), but personally i think whenever they feel like getting defeated they will ban or edit out some post of yours. Best is like FB and paktalk or some independent chat room where things are not edited out or even here as many people can see the debate on verse of Ulil Amr where at best only three people are debating i.e Just The Truth (lies), Brother Islam History and a little contribution from Brother Ameen. Non of the point have been deleted nor anyone has been banned as long as discussion remains academic and no personal abuse / spam have been involved.  

Better for those who are claiming tall here to refute start quoting that article here alongside the topic and can see how they are handled with more historical facts and authentic hadiaths with colourful ting of mantaq and logic.

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Maulana Sahib, are you still here??? Waiting for a response.

 

So if you don't believe in divine appointment after the Messenger (pbuh) and you also don't believe that, the Prophet (pbuh) named and introduced his successor then, would you mind telling me, what exactly do you believe in after the Messenger (pbuh)???ق

My believe is that the Prophet (saaws) did not appoint a succseser because:

 

They said to Ali(ra): Will you not appoint a successor? He said: The Prophet(saaws) did not appoint a successor so that I may do so, If Allah wishes that something good happens to you then he will make you all gather around the best (Man) amongst you just like he made them gather around the best Man ( Abu bakr(ra)) after their Prophet(saaws).

Source: Al Haythami in Mujama’a al Zawa’ed.

Rank: All narrators are that of the SAHIH except Ismail bin Abi al Harith and he is Trustworthy.

 

 

In Sahih Al-Bukhari 5.728: Narrated `Abdullah bin `Abbas(ra): `Ali bin Abu Talib(ra) came out of the house of Allah’s Apostle during his fatal illness. The people asked, “O Abu Hasan(ra)! How is the health of Allah’s Apostle this morning?” `Ali(ra) replied, “He has recovered with the Grace of Allah.” `Abbas bin `Abdul Muttalib(ra) held him by the hand and said to him, “In three days you, by Allah, will be ruled (by somebody else ), And by Allah, I feel that Allah’s Apostle will die from this ailment of his, for I know how the faces of the offspring of `Abdul Muttalib look at the time of their death. So let us go to Allah’s Apostle and ask him who will take over the Caliphate. If it is given to us we will know as to it, and if it is given to somebody else, we will inform him so that he may tell the new ruler to take care of us.” `Ali(ra) said, “By Allah, if we asked Allah’s Apostle for it (i.e. the Caliphate) and he denied it us, the people will never give it to us after that. And by Allah, I will not ask Allah’s Apostle for it.”

 

And before you will ask me: "Who are your 12 Imams"

 

In Sahih Muslim 4.661: Narrated Abu Huraira(ra): The Prophet (saaws) said, “The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number.” The people asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What do you order us (to do)?” He said, “Obey the one who will be given the pledge of allegiance first. Fulfil their (i.e. the Caliphs) rights, for Allah will ask them about (any shortcoming) in ruling those Allah has put under their guardianship.”

 

Al-Nauman ibn Basheer told us: The Prophet(saaws) said: ‘Prophethood will remain in you for as long as God decides for it to remain and then God will remove it when He decides to remove it. After Prophet hood, there will be a Caliphate on the style of prophethood and it will exist for as long as God decides for it to exist, then He will remove it when He decides to remove it. Then there will be a kingdom in which people will face trials and tribulations and it will continue to exist for as long as God decides for it to exist. Then He will remove it, when He decides to remove it. After this, there will be an oppressive kingdom and it will continue to exist for as long as God decides for it to exist. Then He will remove it, when He decides to remove it. Then there will once again be a rule on the style of prophethood. After saying this, the Prophet(saaws) was silent.’

Source: Takhreej Mishat al Masabih #5306.

Grading: SAHIH and this is famous narrated through many chains.

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They said to Ali(ra): Will you not appointarrow-10x10.png a successor? He said: The Prophet(saaws) did not appointarrow-10x10.png a successor so that I may do so, If Allah wishes that something good happens to you then he will make you all gather around the best (Man) amongst you just like he made them gather around the best Man ( Abu bakr(ra)) after their Prophet(saaws).

Source: Al Haythami in Mujama’a al Zawa’ed.

Rank: All narrators are that of the SAHIH except Ismail bin Abi al Harith and he is Trustworthy.

 

 

 

(1) This is not a Shia Source so it is not a Hujja Upon us.

(2) please give me the page Reference.

(3) We read the following:

 

 

We read in the bookarrow-10x10.png: Kitab Al Sunnah (كتاب السنة), By Ibn Ab'i As'se'm (لابن أبي عاصم), Investigated by the Scholar Al-Albani ( الألباني ), In Volume 2 page, 565, Narration 1188:

 

 

 

"Th'na Muhammad Ibn Almothn'i,Said: Narrated Yahya bn' Ham'aadin: From Ab'i A'awan't: From Yah'ya bn'i S'olaim'in Ab'i Blj'in: From Umr'o bn'i Maymo'on'in: From Ibn'i Abas'in Said: Said The prophetarrow-10x10.png   (pbuh) to Ali: 

 

 

"You are from me, like the status to that of Haroon is to Musaarrow-10x10.png, except  you are not a prophet, It should not be that I leave, Only when you are my Caliph, In every Mo'om'in (Faithful Muslim) After me......"

 

 

 

According to the Investigator Al-Albani: "This Hadith is Hassan, and the Men Are 'Tiqa't (Trusted), The Men of the 'Shaykhain'. 

 

 

-1188

 

 ثنا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ حَمَّادٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَوَانَةَ عَنْ يَحْيَى بْنِ سُلَيْمٍ أَبِي بَلْجٍ عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ مَيْمُونٍ عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لِعَلِيٍّ:

 

 

 

"أَنْتَ مِنِّي بِمَنْزِلَةِ هَارُونَ مِنْ مُوسَى إِلا أَنَّكَ لَسْتَ نَبِيًّا إِنَّهُ لا يَنْبَغِي أَنْ أَذْهَبَ إِلا وَأَنْتَ خليفتي 1  فِي كُلِّ مُؤْمِنٍ مِنْ بعدي". قَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَحَدِيثُ سَفِينَةَ ثَابِتٌ مِنْ جِهَةِ النَّقْلِ سَعِيدُ بْنُ جُمْهَانَ رَوَى عَنْهُ حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ وَالْعَوَّامُ بْنُ حَوْشَبٍ وحشرج

 

 

 

 

إسناده حسن ورجاله ثقات رجال الشيخين غير أبي بلج واسمه يحيى بن سليم بن بلج قال الحافظ: صدوق ربما أخطأ.-

 

 

 

 

 

 

post-83202-0-41699500-1382367394_thumb.j post-83202-0-32977900-1382367392_thumb.j  

 

 

 

 

(1) Its clear what the prophet peace be upon him meant when he said Caliph.

(2) he said:.."Except there is no prophet after me..." Here we see clear that Imam Ali (a.s) has a high Position ins Leadership and When he said such a statement it meant clearly Caliphate. We know every well that Harun was both a prophet and a successor. And he we see who is the real Successor.

(3) If the prophet Did not Appoint a Successor can you please tell me what he meant when he said: I have left in My Ummah two Weighy things the book of Allah and May Ahlulbayt, and at some other narration and times he said "Caliph" as we read the following Sunni Sources:

 

 

Al-Haythami:
 
Zaid ibn Thabit from the Prophet of Allah (saw) he said: "I left you two things to follow, what is most important to me is the Khalifatayn. The book of Allah (swt) and my progeny Ahlulbayt (a.s) and they will not separate until they return to me at the pond (of Kawthar in paradise)."
 
Footnote: The Narrators are Jayyid (Good).
 
Source: Majma Al-Zawa'id. Vol. 9, Pg. # 256, H # 14957.
 
 
____________

Al-Suyuti:
 
Prophet of Allah (swt) he said: "I left you two things to follow. What is most important to me is the Khalifatayn. The book of Allah (swt) and my Ahlulbayt (a.s) and they will not separate until they return to me at the Pond (of Kawthar in paradise)."
 
Footnote: Al-Albani comments both Hadeeth as being Saheeh (Authentic). 
 
Source: Jamia Al-Sageer. Vol. 1, Pg. # 482, H # 2457 - 2456.

 

___________________________

 

 

Ibn Abi Hasim:

Narrated Zaid ibn Thabit: Allah’s Apostle (saw) said: “I will leave among you THE two Khalifahs after me: The Book of Allah and my Itrah (Ahlulbayt). Both shall  never separate until they meet me at the 'lake-fount.”

 

Source: Zilal Al-Jannah. Vol. 2, Pg. # 643. H. # 1049.   

 

 

____________________________

 

Shuaib Al-Arna'ut:
 
Zayd ibn Thabit said: "The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: "I am leaving among you two successors, the book of Allah (swt) and my Ahlulbayt (a.s), and they will not separate from each other until they enter upon me together on the fount-lake".
 
Footnote: Al-Arna'ut says: This narration is Saheeh 'Authectic' with its witnesses (i.e. other narrations that support it), with the exception of the last part: "And they will not separate from each other until they enter upon me together on the fount-lake".

Source: Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (Published in 1995) Vol. 35, Pg. 512. H. # 21654.

 
_____________________________
 
Shuaib Al-Arna'ut authenticates the complete narration including the last sentence later in his works.
 
 
We read:

Al Tirmidhi:

 
Alee ibn Munzir al Kufi narrated from Muhammad ibn Fudayl narrated from, Al­' A`mash narrated from `Atiyyah from Aboo Sa`id and Al­'A`mash  narrated Habib ibn Abi Thabit narrated Zayd ibn Arqam, they both said; the Messenger of Allah said; '' I am leaving among you [two things] that if you adhere to it then you should never astray after [my death], and one is greater than the other, the Book of Allah, which is an extended rope from the Sky to the Land and my Family whom they are my Household and both of Them will never separate till they come back to me at lake-font, therefore be careful about how you would succeed about them".
 
Al-Tirmidhi: this is Hasan 'Reliable' in this form
 
Footnote: the narration through Zayd Ibn Arqam it is Saheeh 'authentic' and was also recorded by Muslim  (2408), al Nasa'i in 'al Kubra' (8148)& (8175) & (8464), also found in 'al Musnad' (19265) &(19313) and 'Saheeh ibn Hibban' (123). As for the hadeeth through Aboo Sa'eed it is Saheeh 'authentic' according to its other witnesses, (even though)its chain is weak and it is found in al Musnad (11104).
 
Source: Jamia Tirmidhi Sunan Al -Tirmidhi. (Published 2009) Vol. 6. Pg. 337. H. # 4122.
 
___________________________________________

 

So I am very sorry, for me to believe that the prophet did not appoint a Successor is the most Absurd thing one could hear against Logic, and tell me how Abu bakr and Umar become Caliphs? Did the prophet (s) appoint them? no. Did the prophet (s) tell them go so Shura? no. If they Were so Sincere and loyal to the prophet (s) why did they not stay for his Burial? why did they not pray over him? Of course they did not, they only Cared about Khailfa and position of the throne, anc can you please tell me what they did not take Imam Ali (a.s) With them? did Imam Ali (a.s) not have the right for Khilafa?..Ohh but wait...he was to Busy Burying the prophet (s) and praying over him...

____________________________________________

 
 
 
 

 

 

 

In Sahih Al-Bukhari 5.728: Narrated `Abdullah bin `Abbas(ra): `Ali bin Abu Talib(ra) came out of the house of Allah’s Apostle during his fatal illness. The people asked, “O Abu Hasan(ra)! How is the health of Allah’s Apostle this morning?” `Ali(ra) replied, “He has recovered with the Grace of Allah.” `Abbas bin `Abdul Muttalib(ra) held him by the hand and said to him, “In three days you, by Allah, will be ruled (by somebody else ), And by Allah, I feel that Allah’s Apostle will die from this ailment of his, for I know how the faces of the offspring of `Abdul Muttalib look at the time of their death. So let us go to Allah’s Apostle and ask him who will take over the Caliphate. If it is given to us we will know as to it, and if it is given to somebody else, we will inform him so that he may tell the new ruler to take care of us.” `Ali(ra) said, “By Allah, if we asked Allah’s Apostle for it (i.e. the Caliphate) and he denied it us, the people will never give it to us after that. And by Allah, I will not ask Allah’s Apostle for it.”

 

And before you will ask me: "Who are your 12 Imams"

 

In Sahih Muslim 4.661: Narrated Abu Huraira(ra): The Prophet (saaws) said, “The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number.” The people asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What do you orderarrow-10x10.png us (to do)?” He said, “Obey the one who will be given the pledge of allegiance first. Fulfil their (i.e. the Caliphs) rights, for Allah will ask them about (any shortcoming) in ruling those Allah has put under their guardianship.”

 

Al-Nauman ibn Basheer told us: The Prophet(saaws) said: ‘Prophethood will remain in you for as long as God decides for it to remain and then God will remove it when He decides to remove it. After Prophet hood, there will be a Caliphate on the style of prophethood and it will existarrow-10x10.png for as long as God decides for it to exist, then He will remove it when He decides to remove it. Then there will be a kingdom in which people will face trials and tribulations and it will continuearrow-10x10.png to exist for as long as God decides for it to exist. Then He will remove it, when He decides to remove it. After this, there will be an oppressive kingdom and it will continue to exist for as long as God decides for it to exist. Then He will remove it, when He decides to remove it. Then there will once again be a rule on the style of prophethood. After saying this, the Prophet(saaws) was silent.’

Source: Takhreej Mishat al Masabih #5306.

Grading: SAHIH and this is famous narrated through many chains.uote

 

 

 

 

(1) first of all the falsehood would you claim that Khilafa will only be ruled for some 30 years or more is a false narration, do you think that the prophet peace be upon him would leave his Ummah with no Succesship and righteous Caliphs to follow? you must be blind:

 

 

The Prophet (s) said: “The Religion (Islam) will continue until the Hour (Day of Resurrection), having Twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh.” 

Sahih Muslim. (English ver.), Chapter DCCLIV, v3, p1010, Tradition #4483; Sahih Muslim (Arabic), Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Saudi Arabian Edition, v3, p1453, Tradition #10

 

 

 

post-83202-0-03625000-1382736855_thumb.j  post-83202-0-09803200-1382736453_thumb.j

 

 

 

(2) To the very last our my dear brother the Religion of Islam "Cannot" continue Unless you have these Twelve Caliphs, and tell me who are they? From the Start of this narration which comes from the very Prophet him self till today, you people have yet not come to a Consensus about Who are these Twelve Caliphs, you have even not come to an Agreement on what time period the first one is and the last one is the middle one is and so on, and if your telling the Caliphate is the one we pledge Allegiance, can you tell me who we should have pledged Allegiance Imam Ali (a.s) or Muwiyah? Hussain or Yazid? hassan or His father Muwiyah? tell me what right did they have to be Caliph? tell me who should we pledge our allegiance to? the Ahlulbayt (a.s) or the Enemies of Ahlulbayt (a.s)? When Imam Mahdi (a.s) comes do you think we are going to Follow him because people pledged Allegiance to him? Or because the prophet (s) Ordered us to? because it told us Whom he will be and what he will come for? Its very clear that the concept of Shura it self does not Exist in the Book of Allah in the means of Selecting A Caliph on earth Surely only Allah has the right to Appoint the leaders of this earth with no doubt in mind. And my dear friend on the last Narration, I don't know if you do not know or your doing it to create some Sarcasm, but the last narration clearly for you and me makes clear that "Only" Allah has the right to choose his Caliphate on earth and not a bunch of people who did not even Attend the Burail of the prophet peace be upon him.

____________

(wasalam)

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Ali(ra) said, “By Allah, if we asked Allah’s Apostle for it (i.e. the Caliphate) and he denied it us, the people will never give it to us after that. And by Allah, I will not ask Allah’s Apostle for it.”

 

 

 

So according to your sect, Ameer ul Mumineen (as) was power hungry and even if the Prophet (sawa) denied Ameer ul Mumineen (as), he would still try and only the "people" will stop it. What do you think of Imam Ali (as)?

 

These "people" were only interested to deny the right to Ahlul Bayt but was silent when the Prophet's son Imam Hussayn (as) was murdered. Where was these people?

Your Bukhari is a nasibi!

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So according to your sect, Ameer ul Mumineen (as) was power hungry and even if the Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå denied Ameer ul Mumineen (as), he would still try and only the "people" will stop it. What do you think of Imam Ali (as)?

 

These "people" were only interested to deny the right to Ahlul Bayt but was silent when the Prophet's son Imam Hussayn (as) was murdered. Where was these people?

Your Bukhari is a nasibi!

 

Muhammad ibne Isma'eel Al Bukhari was of the same generation and time as Muhammad Al Thaqi (as). Al Bukhari was so interested in the collection and gathering of Hadiths through various narrations that he never bothered to contact and approach, a legend and a strong link to the Prophecy, such an individual as Al Thaqi (as). Al Bukhari kept his distance and stayed well away from this (Al Thaqi, as) glorious link to our beloved Messenger (pbuh). This clearly shows how interested Al Bukhari was, in his devoted mission of collecting and gathering Hadiths and what lied in his mind and heart.

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^ A good example would be this:

 

Ibn Habban in al-Thuqat, while speaking of Imam al-Jawad [a.s] [under the biography of Imam al-Redha (a.s)] :

 

It is wajib to accept his hadeeth, provided that they are narrated from him by other than his progeny and his Shia, and Abus-Sulat in particular, as the reports narrated from him have such falsehoods in which there is sin from Abus-Sulat and his progeny and his shia.

 

Others have spoken about Ahlalbayt too, Ibn Taymiyyah even considers Imam Sajjad [a.s], Imam al-Baqir [a.s] and Imam as-Sadiq [a.s] to be less useful to the ummah than other "scholars" present during their era.

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^ A good example would be this:

 

Ibn Habban in al-Thuqat, while speaking of Imam al-Jawad [a.s] [under the biography of Imam al-Redha (a.s)] :

 

It is wajib to accept his hadeeth, provided that they are narrated from him by other than his progeny and his Shia, and Abus-Sulat in particular, as the reports narrated from him have such falsehoods in which there is sin from Abus-Sulat and his progeny and his shia.

 

Others have spoken about Ahlalbayt too, Ibn Taymiyyah even considers Imam Sajjad [a.s], Imam al-Baqir [a.s] and Imam as-Sadiq [a.s] to be less useful to the ummah than other "scholars" present during their era.

 

 

There is Much Contradictions on how people are Graded in their Science of Trust, However Ibn'Hijir Admits ignorance claiming that those who do not take or narrate from Ali (a.s) are much more Logical and Useful, and more Trustworthy, and in fact all those who follow them are considered as lairs, and that is why you see Al-Hakim- Alnisabor'i and Al-Nisa'i are being Condemned heavily by the later Scholars like Imam-Al-Dahabi and Ibn Hijir .(Clickhere)

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they already ran away from debating shiachat http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235016469-a-call-for-debate-with-shia-on-imamah-2013/, they also deleted and didnt approved any of my comments on twelver shia gift 2 shias nor they responded me just twelver shia responded me but when they saw getting them refuted they stopped approving my posts then they deleted my many other comments then on hcy aka kfc forum kfc forum responded but they didnt responded my questions i asked them a single question abu bkr said land of khayber was the sadqa but later on aisha took that land then they said me the land is of nafqa and nafqa is seprated from inheritance, then i said lets sake of argument if we agree its nafqa still abu bkr is been proved liar coz nafqa cannot be given from property of sadqa, but after this and some other questions they just posted insults to me and to shias shiachat on their forum, then i decided not make myself low like these filthy creatures and i concluded they couldnt respond logically but just post insults, these webs specially twelvershia net  are pure comedy series if start reading that better a person watch donald duck cartoons instead of waisting his time on that stupid nonsensical blogs.

Edited by BrockLesnar
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