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In the Name of God بسم الله

Shia 12Er Views On Ibn Arabi?

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How do the Shia view Muhammad Ibn Arabi ? Also what shiite scholars of the past and present believed/believes in Wahdat ul Wujood? Also would you say such a person is a kaffir for those beliving in WuW?

 

 

(bismillah) 

(1) Our Definition of Wuhdat al Wojud is very very Different to some of our scholars who are high ranked Philosophers.

(2) The Wuhdat al Wojud of the Sufis is Kuffr.  Yes.

(3) Ibn Arabi is Rejected, to us.   

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(salam)
(bismillah)

 

How do the Salafists view the mujassim ibn Tayymiyah?

 

Ibn Taymiyyah was a Sunni, and he defending the Sunni faith against Shee`ahs and other religions (even if he was wrong), but Ibn `Arabi wasn't Shee`ah, never claimed to be. Unless you think he was a Shi`eeah?

 

Bad Qiyas.

 

(salam)

Edited by Nader Zaveri
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(salam)

(bismillah)

 

 

Ibn Taymiyyah was a Sunni, and he defending the Sunni faith against Shee`ahs and other religions (even if he was wrong), but Ibn `Arabi wasn't Shee`ah, never claimed to be. Unless you think he was a Shi`eeah?

 

Bad Qiyas.

 

(salam)

him being sunni wont change the fact that he was an anthropomorphist . some sunnis even curse him call him kafir. yes ibn arabi wasnt a shia

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(salam)

(bismillah)

 

 

Ibn Taymiyyah was a Sunni, and he defending the Sunni faith against Shee`ahs and other religions (even if he was wrong), but Ibn `Arabi wasn't Shee`ah, never claimed to be. Unless you think he was a Shi`eeah?

 

Bad Qiyas.

 

(salam)

Ibn Taymiyah (d. 728/1328) was a theologian who was sent to the jail by the consensus (Ijma'a) of prominent Sunni scholars of his time (in Egypt and Damascus) because of his heretical beliefs. He was considered an innovator and a heretic and some Sunni scholars went so far as to declare his writings as Kufr.

http://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-digital-islamic-library-project-team/ahl-al-sunnah-view-ibn-taymiya#ibn-taymiyyah

A Wahabi troll is not seeking proper qiyas, he dose not deserve a proper Qiyas.

Ibn Taymyyiah was Nasibi, nasibis should not be sunnis in ahlul sunnah doctrines or are they now?

Edited by IbnSohan
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Sometimes one needs a a rock to make it speak for other to get it, yet he fails.

 

Mr Almaghribi is a wahabi, the purpose of his question is to start a discussion that should end with Shia being followers of Sufis.  Ibn Arabi is known Sufi, Shia scholars have opinions about his writings, some claim that his books were distorted and manipulated if compared to manuscripts, others call him nasibi.

Non the less, he is not a major shia scholar, not a man who wrote a book from which Shia learned hadiths of Ahlulbayt and i doubt that any regular shia house make a mention of this man or pay him any attention, that is if they ever were introduced to him.

 

On the other hand, Sunnis today FOLLOW teachings of a man who is mujassim, who was called kafir by THEIR OWN Scholars  in his time.

 

If you are still do not get the game of these topics then let me put it to you in simple form:

 

Sunni troll : Shia are following a kafir

Shia trolls : and sunnis are following kafir

 

Sunni troll : you are shia and you follow sufi kafir

Shia trol : you are sunni and you follow sunni kafir

 

Sunni troll : your scholars praise the sufi kafir.

Shia troll: your scholars BELIEVE AND FOLLOW sunni kafir.

Edited by IbnSohan
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I doubt the man in your picture rejects Ibn Arabi

 

 

 

First and For most, The Majority of our Scholars Reject Ibn Arabi, In both, the Hawza Al Qommiya, and Hoza al Najafiya, and many philosophers have a read through his works. Its not that they are fond of it, but since many 'Irf'aan' have interest in other works its most likely they read the perspective view of others, His view is much similar as somewhat Sufi, and Rejected by the Majority. Sayed Qathi al Tabrizi like other Irf'aan had a read through his works, but he never once accept his views, since his philosophy and most of it is based on the knowledge of AhlulBbayt (a.s), he was an Alim in 'So'loo'k'. Till today I have never seen any high ranked Scholar in both the Qumiya and Najafiya Hawza in support of Ibn Arabi's view.

Edited by TheIslamHistory
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How do the Salafists view the mujassim ibn Tayymiyah?

 

The name of the thread is "  Shia 12Er Views On Ibn Arabi?" Not "Sunni views on "Ibn Taymiyyah"

 

 

Ibn Taymiyah (d. 728/1328) was a theologian who was sent to the jail by the consensus (Ijma'a) of prominent Sunni scholars of his time (in Egypt and Damascus) because of his heretical beliefs. He was considered an innovator and a heretic and some Sunni scholars went so far as to declare his writings as Kufr.

http://www.al-islam....a#ibn-taymiyyah

Very convenient.

 

 

Ibn Taymyyiah was Nasibi, nasibis should not be sunnis in ahlul sunnah doctrines or are they now?

 

Every sunni is a nasibi according to the Rawafid

 

“People wrote to Imam Ali Naqi that are we required to know more than this that Nasibi considers Munafiq Awwal (First Munafiq – Sayyiduna Abu Bakar) and Daum (Second – Sayyiduna Umar) to be superior than Janab Amir (Sayyiduna Ali) and believes in their Imamat (Khilafat). Hadhrat replied, ‘Anyone who holds such a belief is a Nasibi’.”Haq al-Yaqin by Majlisi Vol. 2, p. 521)

 

 

Sunnis today FOLLOW teachings of a man who is mujassim, who was called kafir by THEIR OWN Scholars  in his time.

"you would not see a scholar opposing him (ibn Taymiyyah(rh)), dissuading from him, filled with hatred for him, except that he was the most greedy of them in gathering the worldly goods, the most cunning of them in acquiring them, the most ostentatious of them, the most desirous for reputation…and the most prolific of them in having lies on his tongue."al-A`laam al-Uliyyah’ (pg. 82) of al-Bazzaar(rh).

 

Ibn Hajar al-AsqalaniÑÍãå Çááøå

"the shaykh of our shaykhs, al-Haafidh Abu al-Yu`maree (ibn Sayyid an-Naas) said in his biography of ibn Taymiyyah: ‘al-Mizzi encouraged me to express my opinion on Shaykh al-Islaam Taqi ad-Deen. I found him to be from those who had acquired a fortunate of knowledge in the sciences that he had. He used to completely memorise and implement the Sunan and Aathaar (narrations). Should he speak about tafseer then he would carry its flag, and should he pass a fatwa in fiqh then he knew its limits. Should he speak about a hadeeth then he was the companion of its knowledge and fully cognisant of its narrations. Should he give a lecture on Religions and Sects then none was seen who was more comprehensive or meticulous than he, he surpassed his contemporaries in every science, and you would not see one like him, and his own eye did not see one like himself."

 

Ibn KathirÑÍãå Çááøå

"He was, may Allaah have mercy upon him, from the greatest of scholars, also from those who err and are correct. However his errors with respect to his correct rulings were like a drop in a huge ocean and they are forgiven him as is authentically reported by Bukhaaree, ‘when a ruler makes a ruling, and he is correct then he has two rewards, and if he has erred then he has one reward.’"

 

ibn Daqeeq al-EidÑÍãå Çááøå

when I met ibn Taymiyyah I saw a man with all the sciences in front of his eyes, he took from them what he wished and he left what he wished."

 

Badr al-Din al-'AyniÑÍãå Çááøå

"Whosoever says ibn Taymiyyah is a kaafir the he is in reality himself a kaafir, and the one who accuses him of heresy is himself a heretic.

 

 

 

Shia trolls : and sunnis are following kafir                        Shia troll: your scholars BELIEVE AND FOLLOW sunni kafir.

Badr al-Din al-'AyniÑÍãå Çááøå

"Whosoever says ibn Taymiyyah is a kaafir the he is in reality himself a kaafir.

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As for

 

Sunnis today FOLLOW teachings of a man who is mujassim, who was called kafir by THEIR OWN Scholars  in his time.

`Let me change that sentance a bit. About Khamenei

12ers today FOLLOW teachings of a man who is a follower of Khoimeinei(who was a big time fan of Ibn Arabi), who was called kafir by THEIR OWN Scholars(like Mujtaba Shirazi)  in his time.

 

As for the other shia in the room i mean no insults towards Khamenei nor Khoimeinei in this post i just used their name as an example here. And Khoimeinei was a big time fan of Ibn Arabi no one can deny that,

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I strongly disbelief that Imam Sadiq a.s. cursed sufis. First, i don't know does sufis existed at that time at all, and second there is no reason for cursing sufis, since many sufis are lovers of Ahlul Beyt a.s. and respect them.

Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (as) cursed Sufis and said that Sufis are not from the religion of Muhammad (pbuh).

Ibn Arabi was a Sufi.

Therefore we reject him.

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“People wrote to Imam Ali Naqi that are we required to know more than this that Nasibi considers Munafiq Awwal (First Munafiq – Sayyiduna Abu Bakar) and Daum (Second – Sayyiduna Umar) to be superior than Janab Amir (Sayyiduna Ali) and believes in their Imamat (Khilafat). Hadhrat replied, ‘Anyone who holds such a belief is a Nasibi’.”Haq al-Yaqin by Majlisi Vol. 2, p. 521)

 

 

 

(1) This could not be True for many reasons, because in our Math'hab a 'Sunni' is not considered as a Disbeliever, and the reference you put is a Book of the Alama al Mjalisi (qas), Who wrote the book in Farsi, I have see many Sunni sites give out False Shia Reference, and I doubt this one is correct. There is an Arabic version of the book, but I cannot find the Arabic, nor the Farisi One Online. If you can please Quote from our Highest Ranks, Such as Ayatollah al Sistani, or Khamenei that we Consider Sunni's as Disbelievers, Quote me one reference if you can (Which you won't). With All due Respect brother, But I advise you Check the reference which the those Anti-Shia Sites/people give you and Confirm with people from our own sect, Sadly even today I have checked Peoples References and they write something that is Completely Different to the what the page says. So please Take my advise, if you which to leave it, that is not my Loss.

 

(2) Calling us Rawafid is Impolite, but if you may, then go ahead, it will to change anything. If you believe we are Refuse'rs of Religion, you Mistaken heavenly and have been lied upon. Today people continue to Cause 'Fitna' and Lie about the Out Foundations. So I Advise you to learn The Islamic History and then be the judge of the who you should follow, and not simply listen and then be pleased.

(wasalam)   

Edited by TheIslamHistory
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(1) This could not be True for many reasons, because in our Math'hab a 'Sunni' is not considered as a Disbeliever, and the reference you put is a Book of the Alama al Mjalisi (qas), Who wrote the book in Farsi, I have see many Sunni sites give out False Shia Reference, and I doubt this one is correct. There is an Arabic version of the book, but I cannot find the Arabic, nor the Farisi One Online. If you can please Quote from our Highest Ranks, Such as Ayatollah al Sistani, or Khamenei that we Consider Sunni's as Disbelievers

 

What is the status of Kitab al-Itiqad?

Do you agree that it is a summary of the creed of the Shia Ithna Ashari  upon which the ulema  have ijma?

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(salam)

(bismillah)

Till today I have never seen any high ranked Scholar in both the Qumiya and Najafiya Hawza in support of Ibn Arabi's view.

 

That is a bold statement. I wouldn't be so confident in making. There have been many who not only accepted his view but adopted it as well.

 

(salam)

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What is the status of Kitab al-Itiqad?

Do you agree that it is a summary of the creed of the Shia Ithna Ashari  upon which the ulema  have ijma?

Sheykh As-Sadduq in Al i'tiqad :

 

واعتقادنا فيمن جحد إمامة أمير المؤمنين علي بن أبي طالب عليهما السلام والائمة من بعده: أنه كمن جحد نبوة جميع الانبياء عليهم السلام.

واعتقادنا فيمن أقر بأمير المؤمنين عليه السلام وأنكر واحدا من بعده من الائمة عليهم السلام: أنه بمنزلة من أقر بجميع الانبياء عليهم السلام وأنكر نبوة نبينا محمد صلى الله عليه وآله.

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Greetings Theislamhistory.

(1) This could not be True for many reasons, because in our Math'hab a 'Sunni' is not considered as a Disbeliever

It seems like you are not familiar with your own madhab. I would advise you to research your own religion.

Sunnis are considered kaffirs in you madhab.

Rejecting us(Imams) is rejecting Allah and that is up to the level of paganism and considering things equal to Allah..."

Al-Kafi, Book on Virtue of Knowledge, H 196, Ch. 21, h 9

Nimatullah Al-Jazaeri in Al-Anwar Al-Numaniya (Vol 1 p. 278/279): "We do not agree with Nasibis about Allah nor a prophet nor an Imam, for they say that their God is the one whose prophet is Muhammad (a.s) and his Khalifah after him is Abu Baker. We do not believe in this God nor this Prophet, because the God whose prophet's Khalifa is Abu Baker is not our God and that Prophet is not our Prophet

Also please dont say i dont think this is authentic that is not authentic. Prove it is not authentic or dont bother to make an comment about it.

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I strongly disbelief that Imam Sadiq a.s. cursed sufis. First, i don't know does sufis existed at that time at all, and second there is no reason for cursing sufis, since many sufis are lovers of Ahlul Beyt a.s. and respect them.

Sufism started as reaction to the lack of spirituality that prevailed during Ummayad reign. Sufism Tariqa system was fully developed in the 5th Islamic century but the asceticism tendencies and practices along with dhikr gatherings with drums and dances were present since the 1st-2nd Islamic century.

Imams, no, prophet himself disagreed with extremism in how one treat his body and soul. Imam Sadiq specifically wore new nice cloths upon his regular cloths just to send message to people that the appearance is not a measure nor is a necessity to reach higher spiritual level.

 

 Their path is not the path of Ahlulbayt and that's enough for those who follow the path of Ahlulbayt to identify the Sufi mistakes.

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(salam)
(bismillah)

 

There is a very strong argument that suggest the anti-Sufi hadith that are in our books are all fabricated. Even though I dislike Sufis and Sufism, from my research into those hadith, I am of the view that they were posthumously attributed to our A'immah (AS). Wallaahu A`lim.

 

(salam)

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(salam)

(bismillah)

 

There is a very strong argument that suggest the anti-Sufi hadith that are in our books are all fabricated. Even though I dislike Sufis and Sufism, from my research into those hadith, I am of the view that they were posthumously attributed to our A'immah (as). Wallaahu A`lim.

 

(salam)

Ahsant!

 

AstaghfirulAllah.

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(salam)

(bismillah)

Yes, that is a whole different can of worms on how and why those hadith were fabricated. 

 

(salam)

Sunnis claim that Shii fabricated the hadiths of Ismah and Imamah for political reasons. They claim that our Imams did not say they were Imams nor Ma'soums. Sunnis argument is more valid, no, ten times valid than yours.

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Greetings Theislamhistory.

It seems like you are not familiar with your own madhab. I would advise you to research your own religion.

Sunnis are considered kaffirs in you madhab.

Rejecting us(Imams) is rejecting Allah and that is up to the level of paganism and considering things equal to Allah..."

Al-Kafi, Book on Virtue of Knowledge, H 196, Ch. 21, h 9

Nimatullah Al-Jazaeri in Al-Anwar Al-Numaniya (Vol 1 p. 278/279): "We do not agree with Nasibis about Allah nor a prophet nor an Imam, for they say that their God is the one whose prophet is Muhammad (a.s) and his Khalifah after him is Abu Baker. We do not believe in this God nor this Prophet, because the God whose prophet's Khalifa is Abu Baker is not our God and that Prophet is not our Prophet

Also please dont say i dont think this is authentic that is not authentic. Prove it is not authentic or dont bother to make an comment about it.

 

 

 

(bismillah)

 

 

 

Statement: It seems like you are not familiar with your own madhab. I would advise you to research your own religion. Sunnis are considered kaffirs in you madhab.

 

 

Dear brother, I advise you to stop this Baseless assumptions that we assume you are a Disbeliever and so on. If you to our High ranked Scholars in any way possible or contact them, you will surely know that we do not Consider Sunni's as Disbelievers. I am very fond and Aware of my own A'qeda Thank you very much. If you can bring one statement from our High Ranks such as Ayatollah al Sistani and Ayatollah al Khamenei, that Sunnis Are considered as Disbelievers, you can only then have an proof against me, if not, then sorry to say you have nothing my dear brother. I asked you, ask you ignored me  by mentioning more Manipulated Narrations your people take and change so let us Examine the narrations you have mentioned:

You mentioned the following:   

 

 

 

 

Rejecting us(Imams) is rejecting Allah and that is up to the level of paganism and considering things equal to Allah..."

Al-Kafi, Book on Virtue of Knowledge, H 196, Ch. 21, h 9

 

 

 

So let us take a look at the book of Al-Kafi, Book on Virtue of Knowledge H 196, Ch.21, H9 from page 121:

 

post-83202-0-14261800-1382768826_thumb.jpost-83202-0-12391300-1382768830_thumb.j

post-83202-0-03393600-1382769587_thumb.j post-83202-0-70375500-1382769682_thumb.j 

post-83202-0-82045400-1382768835_thumb.j

 

 

Here is the Text of Narration:

_____________________________________________________________________________________

 

It is narrated from him from his father from Isma’il ibn Marrar from Yunus from Dawud ibn Farqad from Mu‘alla ibn Khunays who has said the following. "I asked Imam abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.), ‘If we receive a Hadith from first of you and from the members of your later generation which one should we follow?" The Imam replied, "Follow it until you receive it from the living Imam. When it comes from a living Imam follow his words." The Imam than said, "We by Allah, like you to follow what is easy for you." In nother Hadith it is says, "Follow whichever the newest."’ Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Husayn from Muhammad ibn
‘Isa from Safwan ibn Yahya from Dawud ibn al-Husayn from ‘Umar ibn Hanzala who has said the following.
 
"I asked Imam abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) about the two people with a dispute between them on the issue of debts or inheritance and they go to the king or the judges for a decision is it permissible to seek such decisions?" The Imam replied, "Whoever would go to them for a
judgement in a right or wrongful matter it is like seeking the judgment of the devil. Anything received through such judgment would like consuming filth even if it would one’s established right. It is because of receiving through the judgment of the devil and Allah has commanded to reject the devil, "yet choose to take their affairs to Satan for judgment even though they are commanded to deny him. Satan wants to lead them far away from the right path. (4:60)"
 
 
I said, "What should then they do?" The Imam replied, "They must look for one among you who have narrated our Hadith and have studied what is lawful and unlawful in our teachings and have learned our laws they must agree to settle their dispute according to his judgment because I have made him over you a ruler. When he may judge according to our commands and then it is not accepted from him the dissenting this judgment has ignored the commands of Allah and it is rejection of us. Rejecting us is rejecting Allah and that is up to the level of paganism and considering things equal to Allah."
 
 
I said, "What if each one of such disputing parties would chose a man from among our people and agree to accept their judgment but these two man would come up with different judgments and they would have differences in your Hadith?" The Imam replied, "The judgment will be the judgment of the one who has a more just, having more better understanding of the law, Fiqh, the more truthful in Hadith and the more pious of the two. The judgment of the other one will be disregarded."
 
 
I said, "What if both (of such judges) would be just and accepted among our people and none of them would have been any preference over the other?" The Imam replied, "One must consider and study the hadith that each one of them would narrate from us as to which has received the acceptance of all of your people. Such Hadith must be followed and the one, which rarely accepted and is not popular in your people, must be disregarded because the one popularly accepted is free of doubts. The nature of cases are
of three kinds:  A case that is a well-known and true to follow. (b.) A case that is well known to be false to stay away from. © And a confusing case the knowledge of which must be left to Allah and His Prophet for an answer.  The holy Prophet has said, ‘There is the
clearly lawful and the clearly unlawful and the confusing cases. One who stays away from the confusing ones he has protected himself against the unlawful ones. Those who follow the confusing matters they indulge in unlawful matters and will be destroyed unexpectedly."
 
I said, "What if both Hadith from you would be popular and narrated by the trustworthy people from you?" The Imam replied, "One must study to find out which one agrees with the laws of the Quran and the Sunnah and it does not agree with the laws of the those who oppose us. Such Hadith must be accepted and the one that disagree with the laws of the Quran and the Sunnah and coincides the masses must be disregarded."
 
I said, "May Allah take my soul in the service of your cause, What if both Faqih, scholars of the law would have deduced and learned their judgment from the book and the Sunnah and found that one of the Hadith agrees with the masses and the other disagrees with the masses which one must be followed?"
 
The Imam replied, "The one which disagrees with the masses must be followed because in it there is guidance."
 
 
I said, "May Allah take my soul in the service of your cause, what if both Hadith would agree with the masses?" The Imam replied, "One must study to find out of the two the one that is more agreeable to their rulers and judges must be disregarded and the other must be followed."
 
 
I said, "What if both Hadith would agree with their rulers?" The Imam replied, "If such would be the case it must be suspended until you meet your Imam. Restraint in confusing cases is better than indulging in destruction."

____________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

(1) before you go around taking things out of Context its best to read them first to Confirm your stance, so you don't get pointed out dear brother.

(2) Second of all the Whole narration is based on the Jurisprudence (Fiq'h) and how to Judge between The Islamic Laws and knowing them most Righteous, which should be as the Imam Mentioned should be according to the Sunnah and the book of Allah.

(3) You took the Paragraph out of Context, as we see along the lines, Rejecting the "Imam 'Al'sadiq (a.s) who is in the narration, based on the Whole Idea of the narration which is in the terms of Jurisprudence (Fiq'h) and narration (Aha'diths), In rejecting him you have rejected The Fiqh and the Correct narrations. This is due to the Fact that the School of thought of Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (a.s) is the first school of thought Where Abu Hanifa and Malik, Studied under, and later came the other Two schools of thought. He is the First Imam to have the chance to bring/Spread knowledge during the time.

(4) What he mentioned the Two conditions of An Authentic narration is if its With the Quran and the Sunnah, if you Reject this you Reject truth, and will most likely Turn to the Fabricated Narrations, if you do not match them with the Quran and Sunnah, so the Imam Meant on these Terms, and also at the last Sentence, it is according to the level of the disbelief of the Person the levels of Belief of a person that will determine whether he is a Faithful or not.

____________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________

We take a look at the Other Source you mentioned:

 

"Nimatullah Al-Jazaeri in Al-Anwar Al-Numaniya (Vol 1 p. 278/279)"

_______________________________________________________________________________________

 

(1) We Find that that Reference you mentioned "Does Not Exist" , volume 1 only goes up to only page 275. and later to page 276, which is the Index, I read the Previous pages and Cannot Find the Paragraph your Quoting. Please provide proper Reference, or If it is Fabricated, please make sure its Correct. Thank you. 

 

 

 post-83202-0-06950400-1382772717_thumb.jpost-83202-0-58079700-1382772718_thumb.jpost-83202-0-50743100-1382772720_thumb.j

(2) The Definition of a "Nasib'i" is Different to a "Sunni", in our school of thought.

 

Statement:

Also please dont say i dont think this is authentic that is not authentic. Prove it is not authentic or dont bother to make an comment about it.

 

Reply: First please read what I said and don't just scan Read:

"This could not be True for many reasons, because in our Math'hab a 'Sunni' is not considered as a Disbeliever, and the reference you put is a Book of the Alama al Mjalisi  (qas), Who wrote the book in Farsi, I have see many Sunni sites give out False Shia Reference, and I doubt this one is correct. There is an Arabic version of the book, but I cannot find the Arabic, nor the Farisi One Online. If you can please Quote from our Highest Ranks, Such as Ayatollah al Sistani, or Khamenei that we Consider Sunni's as Disbelievers, Quote me one reference if you can (Which you won't). With All due Respect brother, But I advise you Check the reference which the those Anti-Shia Sites/people give you and Confirm with people from our own sect, Sadly even today I have checked Peoples References and they write something that is Completely Different to the what the page says. So please Take my advise, if you which to leave it, that is not my Loss."

So now I ask you can you please prove this to us. Please Scan the book and Cover. Or Lead us to a link if you may. If you cannot do such, you have proven nothing.

I ask again Please Quote from Ayatollah al Sistani and AlKhamenei and I will accept.

 

 

 

 

(salam)

(bismillah)

 

That is a bold statement. I wouldn't be so confident in making. There have been many who not only accepted his view but adopted it as well.

 

(salam)

 

 

To my knowledge I have not know anyone of the hick Rank Scholars are have "Fully" adopted his Ideology and Philosophy, I meant it along those terms, But of course people to take some Ideas and have a thought and mention it, but To accept something is Different to when you a level of Belief in something.

 

 

 

What is the status of Kitab al-Itiqad?

Do you agree that it is a summary of the creed of the Shia Ithna Ashari  upon which the ulema  have ijma?

 

 

(1) Which summary in, which book are you referring to?

(2) Kitab al Itiqad is not familiar to me, can you please mention it in Arabic?

(3) who is the Author of the book? 

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Hello my shia friend

 

I am very fond and Aware of my own A'qeda 

Then you should know sunnis are kuffar in your religion.

 

You took the Paragraph out of Context, as we see along the lines, Rejecting the "Imam 'Al'sadiq (a.s) who is in the narration, based on the Whole Idea of the narration which is in the terms of Jurisprudence (Fiq'h) and narration (Aha'diths), In rejecting him you have rejected The Fiqh and the Correct narrations.

 

 
We read.
 
I said, "What should then they do?" The Imam replied, "They must look for one among you who have narrated our Hadith and have studied what is lawful and unlawful in our teachings and have learned our laws they must agree to settle their dispute according to his judgment because I have made him over you a ruler. When he may judge according to our commands and then it is not accepted from him the dissenting this judgment has ignored the commands of Allah and it is rejection of us. Rejecting us is rejecting Allah and that is up to the level of paganism and considering things equal to Allah."
 

 

 
Now my question my shiite friend. If i reject the teachings or some of the teachings of your Imam found in your books im i up to the level of Paganism? If i reject the laws or some of the laws of your Imam found in your books im i up to the level of Paganism?
 
By the way Jaafar al Sadiq was a sunni and all of your ahadith from him is rejected by us i am just bringing narrations you accept.
 

 

 

 Where Abu Hanifa and Malik, Studied under

Abu Hanifa did not sudy under Jaafar al Sadiq.

 

 

Regarding Imam Abu Hanifah Studying Under Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq

By Shaykh Taha Karaan

 

Regarding Imam Abu Hanifah’s allegedly having studied under Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq, please be informed as follows:

Imam Abu Hanifah was the pupil and intellectual successor of his mentor, Hammad ibn Abi Sulayman, who was the successor to Ibrahim an-Nakha’i, who was the successor to his uncle ‘Alqamah ibn Qays an-Nakha’i, who was the successor to Sayyiduna ‘Abdullah ibn Mas’ud, who was sent as a teacher to the city Kufah by Amir al-Mu’minin Sayyiduna ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab. This chain of intellectual descent is known to anyone knowledgeable of the legislative history of Islam.

In fact, Imam Abu Hanifah held his dicourses at the very same place in the masjid of Kufah where Ibn Mas’ud used to teach. This teaching circle was passed down generation after generation, by the men whose names you have just read: From Ibn Mas’ud to ‘Alqamah; from ‘Alqamah to Ibrahim; from Ibrahim to Hammad; and ultimately from Hammad to Abu Hanifah, after whom it was occupied by three of his students successively: firstly Zufar ibn Hudhayl; then Abu Yusuf; and then Muhammad ibn al-Hasan.

Now, regarding the link between Abu Hanifah and Ja’far as-Sadiq, you need to keep in mind the following:

Firstly

Imam Abu Hanifah was born in the year 80 AH

Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq was born in the year 83 AH

In other words, not only were they contemporaries; but Abu Hanifah was 3 years older than Ja’far as-Sadiq.

Secondly

Imam Abu Hanifah’s education took place in Kufah, in the school originally established by Ibn Mas’ud. Like other ‘ulama of his time, he used to go to Hijaz for Hajj, and passing through Madinah, he used to benefit from the knowledge of eminent men of learning, such as the father of Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq, namely Imam Muhammad al-Baqir. Many of the ahadith he narrates from Imam Muhammad al-Baqir are documented in the books of his pupils Abu Yusuf and Muhammad ibn al-Hasan.

Thirdly

It is true that Imam Abu Hanifah does narrate some ahadith from Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq. But that was according to the habit of the ‘ulama to narrate from even their contemporaries. If that alone is to be taken as evidence that Imam Abu Hanifah “studied” under Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq, then we will be bound to conclude that Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq similarly learnt from people other than his father, such as Ibn Shihab az-Zuhri, ‘Ata ibn Abi Rabah, ‘Urwah ibn Zubaur and Muhammad ibn al-Munkadir. Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq has narrated hadith from all of these men, and even others besides them. (Tahdhib al-Kamal vol. 5 p. 75)

Fourthly

In the year 132 the Abbasids came to power, having ousted the Umayyads. Abu Hanifah was then 52 years of age. The Abbasid khalifah Abu Ja’far al-Mansur wanted Abu Hanifah as his chief justice, which post he refused. In order to escape the vengeance of the khalifah, Abu Hanifah betook himself to the Hijaz where he spent the next 2 years. It is in terms of this sojourn in the Hijaz that he is reported to have said, “Were it not for the 2 years, Nu’man (i.e. Abu Hanifah) would have been destroyed”. Creative Shi’i imaginations would have us believe that what he actually meant thereby was that it was during this period that he gained his knowledge at the feet of Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq. The absurdity of this can be seen from the fact that by that time he was already so famous as a man of learning, that he was sought by the khalifah as the chief justice. Apart from that, he was, as already shown, over 50 years of age.

Fifthly

There is a famous story in circulation about Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq posing certain questions to Imam Abu Hanifah regarding the use of Qiyas (analogy). You should be informed that the story appears in this form in Shi’i books such as al-Kafi. In the Sunni literature it appears with significant changes.

First of all, the discussion is not between Abu Hanifah and Ja’far as-Sadiq, but between Abu Hanifah and Muhammad al-Baqir.

Secondly, the story goes as follows:

Al-Baqir asks Abu Hanifah if he is the one who is changing the Deen of his (al-Baqir’s) grandfather (Rasulullah sallallahu `alayhi wasallam) through the use of Qiyas. Abu Hanifah denies that he is changing the Deen. In order to demonstrate the falsehood of the rumours, he then goes on his knees in front of Imam al-Baqir and uses the comparison between (1) the share of a man and a woman in the spoils of war; (2) fasting and prayer with regard to a woman in menstruation having to pray in the former and not the latter; (3) urine and semen in respect of the method of purification for either one. 
After this lucid demonstration of his usage of Qiyas only where there is no textual evidence, and strictly adhering to the authority of text where it exists, Imam Muhammad al-Baqir stands up and kisses Imam Abu Hanifah on his forehead. (Manaqib Abi Hanifah by al-Kardari, p. 99)

It was only later that the Shi’ah would adapt the story to suit their own particular needs.

Source: http://www.ilmgate.org/regarding-imam-abu-hanifah-studying-under-imam-jafar/

 

 

 

(1) We Find that that Reference you mentioned "Does Not Exist" , volume 1 only goes up to only page 275. and later to page 276, which is the Index, I read the Previous pages and Cannot Find the Paragraph your Quoting. Please provide proper Reference, or If it is Fabricated, please make sure its Correct. Thank you. 

 

I will check this and reply later.

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Hello my shia friend

Then you should know sunnis are kuffar in your religion.

 

 
We read.
 
 
Now my question my shiite friend. If i reject the teachings or some of the teachings of your Imam found in your books im i up to the level of Paganism? If i reject the laws or some of the laws of your Imam found in your books im i up to the level of Paganism?
 
By the way Jaafar al Sadiq was a sunni and all of your ahadith from him is rejected by us i am just bringing narrations you accept.
 

Abu Hanifa did not sudy under Jaafar al Sadiq.

 

 

 

I will check this and reply later.

 

(bismillah)

 

 

Fascinating, you have provide False Sources that we claim that you are a Disbeliever, and later you still insist that We all you a Kaffer? brother I advise you to not force your self to much, it will only create Hatred, and if your intention is to Steer things to your Direction, you are already Claiming a falsehood and Creating Fitna.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Second of all dear friend I advise you to do your Research, In Bukhari, Muslim, Sunan al Tirimidi, Musanad Ibn Hanbal, you will not find many narrations from Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (a.s), Nor will you find any proof that he was a Sunni. He is 6th of the Twelve Caliphs, Who the prophet Told about, In many narrations Such in Bukhari and Muslim. He is one of the Members of Ahlulbayt (a.s). Second of All he was nor sunni, Nor Shia, He was one of the Members of the Household Of Ahlulbayt (a.s) and we follow Ahlulbayt (a.s), that is why we are called "Shia" , Meaning Follower. So please Do your Research my dear brother. Imam ja'far al Sadiq (a.s) is the Son of Imam Ali Baqir (a.s) (the 5th Caliph of the Shia), and He is the son of Imam Ali ibn al Hussain (a.s) (The 4th Caliph of the Shia), and he is the son of Imam Hussain (a.s) Who Fought Against yazid's Oppression, And he is the Son of Imam Ali (a.s) (a.s) Who is the (First Caliph of the Shia). If your saying he was Sunni, Then let me ask you, Why is The J'afar'iya school of thought not followed by the Sunnah? Can you please explain? Let me Tell you first of all that we follow the School of Ahlulbayt (a.s) And Due to the oppression, the only time where they got the chance to spread their knowledge was at the time of the Caliphate of the Mansoor (L.A), Who was the Murder who poisoned Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (a.s). he is is from the Al'i al Baytof Muhammad (Ahlulbayt (a.s)). That is why we have thousands of narrations from Imam Ja'afa al Sadiq (a.s), Compared to the Ahlul-Sunnah Who wil not Exceed 10 even in their books.

 

 

Now Surprisingly you do not know that Abu Hanifa And Malik were Students of Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (a.s), so let me Cite some evidence of the Above statements I have made, we read in Yanab'i al Muwada, Chapter 65, Volume 3, Page 439:

وقال القندوزي الحنفي ينابيع المودة في الباب الخامس والستون نقلاً من كتاب فصل الخطاب للخواجه پارسا « وكان جعفر الصادق ( عليه السلام ) من سادات أهل البيت روى عن أبيه وعن القاسم ونافع وعطاء ومحمد بن المنكدر والزهري وروى عنه ابنه موسى الكاظم ويحيى بن سعيد الانصاري وابو حنيفه وابن جريج ومالك ومحمد بن اسحاق وسفيان الثوري وسفيان بن عيينة وشعبه ويحيي بن سعيد القطان ».   

 

 

 

"...and Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (a.s) is from the 'Sada'at' of Ahlulbayt (a.s), narrates from his father, And narrated from him, Al Qas'im  and Na'fa'a, and Ata'ah and Muhammad bn al Mo'nkar, and Al-zhry, and narrated from him his son Musa Al Kazim, and Yah'ya Bn, Sa'id al-Ansari, and Abu Hanifa and the son of jarih bn Malik, and Muhammad bn Ish'aaq and Sufyian al Tho'ry and Sufyain bn Ay'ena, and Sh'oaba and yahya bn Sa'id al-Qtan........."

 

 

 

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We read in Abdulrahman al-Sharqawi records in his book Aema al-Feqh al-Tesa, page 51:

 

 

 

مات الامام جعفر الصادق إمام الشيعة و شيخ اهل السنة بعد ان ترك ثورة من الفقه و العلم و التأملات, و أنشأ في الحياة الفكرية تيار جديد خصبا أعلى فيه العقل و اللنظر و التأمل و العلم....وجمع المعارف الدنيا و الدين

 

 

 

 

"Died the Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq, Imam of the Shi'a and the Shiekh of the Ahlul-Sunnah, after he left his wealth of jurisprudence and knowledge and reflections, and established in the life of Intellect a new stream, higher in the mind and vision and hope/reflection and science.....and he collected the knowledge of the Wordly life and the Religion..."   

 

 

 

 

post-83202-0-23676100-1382826822_thumb.jpost-83202-0-00717400-1382826826_thumb.jpost-83202-0-44119200-1382826824_thumb.j

 

 

 

 

 

 

And we also read Abdulrahman al-Sharqawi records in his book Aema al-Feqh al-Tesa,  page 222:

 

 

لزم الإمام جعفر الصادق سنتين تعلم فيهما الكثير وإن اختلفا من بعد حتى قال ابو حنيفة النعمان لولا السنتان لهلك النعمان
 
 

He sat in the company of Imam Jaffr al-Sadiq for two years and learned a great deal from him, despite their disagreement after that time Abu Hanifa used to say: ‘Without those two years, Numan would have perished

 

 

 

 

post-83202-0-00717400-1382826826_thumb.jpost-83202-0-89569600-1382828671_thumb.j

 

 

 

And also Minhaj al-Sharia al-Islamia, Volume 3 page 114:

 

 

وقد أخذ عن الإمام جعفر الصادق رضي الله عنه الإمام مالك في المدينة وقال عنه : إنه كان من العلماء الزهاد الذين يخشون الله.
 
 

Imam Malik studied under the teaching of Imam Jaffar al-Sadiq may Allah be pleased with him, in Madina and he (Malik) used to say: ‘He was among the pious scholars who fear Allah.’

 

 

 

 

 ‘Musnad Imam Azam’ rendered in to Urdu by Maulana Sa’d Hasan Sahib. The text is a collection of traditions that have been narrated and compiled by Imam Abu Hanifa. On page 23 of the preface of the Musnad, Maulana Abdur Rashid Numani, whilst giving an overview of the life of Imam Abu Hanifa states:

 

“Imam Abu Hanifa stayed for a long time in the pure (city of) Madina and continuously attended the circles of Imam Baqar ®. In jurisprudence (fiqh) and traditions (hadith) he learnt many things during his time with Imam Baqar ® which he didn’t know before. Imam Baqar ® passed away on 7 Dhu’l Hijja 114 AH.

 

 

After Imam Baqar’s death, Imam Abu Hanifa had the greatest respect for his son Imam Ja’far Sadiq ®. He would attend Imam Ja’far’s classes quite often to acquire knowledge. Imam Abu Hanifa used to hold the opinion about the Ahl al-Bayt that hadith and fiqh, indeed all religious sciences, have surfaced from their Household”.

 

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Statement:

 

 

Now my question my shiite friend. If i reject the teachings or some of the teachings of your Imam found in your books im i up to the level of Paganism? If i reject the laws or some of the laws of your Imam found in your books im i up to the level of Paganism?

 

 

​If the narration is Authentic, No because  in both sects Sunni and Shia we have the four Common Usul, which we agree upon although we have different descriptions of it. To become a Muslim one must acknowledge theses four foundations without any doubt. We have five Usul, so in your question whether you are Muslim or not, yes you are as long as you believe in the four foundations (When Believing in the two 'Shahadatain' the rest of the other two principles will follow, (3) The angels and (4) the Day of judgement, so I did not claim that only the two 'Shahdatain' are Obligatory, as you have falsely accused me of such false). For us on the other hand leaving Imamah our does not mean you are not a Muslim believer, but you are not a 'faithful' Nor a 'follower of Ahlulbayt (a.s), to become a follower of 'Ahlulbayt (a.s)' you must Believe in Imamah to become a 'Faithful' Leaving one principle out that is in accordance to use, does not interfere with your beliefs, nor does your interfere with your in the manner to reject your Identity as a Muslim Believer. To become a 'Faithful' At the highest ranks of beliefs then it is mandatory upon you to believe in Imam Ali (a.s) as your first Caliph and the Caliphs after him (a.s). So in Simpler way Let me Lay it out for you in a Diagram, since most of this period of time you have shown your self not be fond of reading at all:

The Usuls of both the Sunnah and the Shia in Total:

1. Belief there is not God but God: ( Believing this you then are obligated to believe in (1) his prophet (3) Angels & (4) Day of Judgement) ------->

 

-----> This is Mandatory upon all Believers of The One Creator to become a 'Muslim (believer of God and his Message)' :(Normal/low Rank in Faith)

 

2. Prophet Muhammad is his Messenger: ( Believing this you then are obligated to believe in (3) Angels & (4) Day of Judgement and (5) When you come to the Recognition that Ahlulbayt are the path of Truth and they are the Guide after the prophet, you are 'Then' Obligated to follow Them. Rejecting this Take yous out of being a Follower Of Ahlulbayt (Faithful), but does not take you out of being a mere Muslim.  
 
 
 
3. Angels of Allah (All must believe) -----> (Obligatory Upon All)
 
4. Day of Judgement: (All must Believe) -----> (Obligatory Upon All)
 
5. Imamah (Believe in the Twelve Imams and the Successors (Imams) and All of successors previously from the time of man) - In the Clarity of this the Guide to being a Total Faithful are the Highest Rank (This Includes Sticking the Arkan/Forro'a) One Must Follow & Obey Ahlulbayt Peace be upon them.
 
 
- The prophet Clearly said and we all Acknowledge his : " I have left in you (Ummah) Two Weighy Things, Hold on to them and you will'Never' Go astray, The Book of Allah and My Ahlulbayt....."  ( To Hold on, is to Follow and obey therefore to Obey them and Follow them is Obligatory upon you) 
 
 
 
There is a major difference between the mere 'Muslim' and the 'Faithful Muslim' as Allah says in the Quran Surat Al hujraat verse 14:
 
 

قَالَتِ الْأَعْرَابُ آمَنَّا ۖ قُل لَّمْ تُؤْمِنُوا وَلَٰكِن قُولُوا أَسْلَمْنَا وَلَمَّا يَدْخُلِ الْإِيمَانُ فِي قُلُوبِكُمْ ۖ وَإِن تُطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ لَا يَلِتْكُم مِّنْ أَعْمَالِكُمْ شَيْئًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

 

 

The bedouins say, "We have believed." Say, "You have not [yet] believed; but say [instead], 'We have submitted,' for faith has not yet entered your hearts. And if you obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

 

In the light of this verse we find there is a Difference in the Rank of Faith between the one who merely Submits to Allah, and the one who faiths enters his heart fully. So that is in our school of thought to become a 'Faithful' you must Obey the Twelve Caliphs after the the prophet peace be upon him, as he as told us to follow his Ahlulbayt (a.s) and the previous thread we have proven to you their Identity.

________________________________________________________________________________

According to us my dear brother From our High Ranked Scholars Sunni's are Muslims , Here is the Opinions of our high Ranked Scholars (click here) 

 

 

(Wasalam)

 

  

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Greetings my Shiite friend TheIslamhistory.

 

 

 

Fascinating, you have provide False Sources that we claim that you are a Disbeliever

I have not provided a false source. You just went to a different copy/print of the book. I will find you a scan.

 

As for the sources. I have many more to go but i dont want throw many around. Lets focus on what i have provided. 

 

In Bukhari, Muslim, Sunan al Tirimidi, Musanad Ibn Hanbal, you will not find many narrations from Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq

 

 

 

Imam Ahmed collected alone 18 narrations from Hasan ibn Ali while your 4 greatest books only have 21 narrations from him. What books contain what is not a strong argument.

 

As for Bukhari not including Jaafar. Thats because Bukhari could reach hadiths through a shorter chain. 

 

 

 

Nor will you find any proof that he was a Sunni. 

You sure?

 

80% of his students were Sunni. And no early source attributes shiism to him.

Can you find me a non-shi3i realible source saying Jaafar ibn Muhammad Al Baqir was a Shi3i?

 

Turn that comment around

 

Nor will you find any proof that he was a Shiite. 

 

 

He is 6th of the Twelve Caliphs, 

Really. When was Jaafar a caliph?

 

Who the prophet Told about, In many narrations Such in Bukhari and Muslim.

 

Really?

 

  Sahih Muslim

Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard Muhammad saying, "The (Islamic) religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh."(Book 020: Number 4477, 4478, 4480, 4481, 4482, 4483)

 

Sahih Bukhari

Narrated By Jabir bin Samura : I heard the Prophet saying, "There will be twelve Muslim rulers ." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish.( Volume 009, Book 089, Hadith Number 329.)

 

Sunan Abu Dawood 

The Prophet said: "This religion remains standing until there are twelve vicegerents over you, all of them agreeable to the nation, all of them from Quraysh."( Book 36: Number 4266)

 

 

Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal

Masrooq rates that someone asked Abdullah Ibn Masood, "O Abaa Abd al-Rahmaan, did you ask the Messenger of Allah how many caliphs will rule this nation?". Abdullah Ibn Masood replied, "Yes, we did ask the Messenger of Allah and he replied, "Twelve, like the number of chiefs (nuqabaa) of Bani Israel"( Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 1, pg 398)

 

 

So when did Jaafar al Sadiq rule? When did he rule the Muslims?

 

 

 

He was one of the Members of the Household Of Ahlulbayt (a.s)

He was also a descendant of Abu Bakr(as).

 

 

 

Why is The J'afar'iya school of thought not followed by the Sunnah

There is no such thing as a "Ja’fari Madhhab" 

It is laid to rest here: http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/the-reality-behind-the-jafari-madhhab/

 

 

 

That is why we have thousands of narrations from Imam Ja'afa al Sadiq

And all of those thousands of narrations are fabricated. (No offence body)

 

 

 

Compared to the Ahlul-Sunnah Who wil not Exceed 10 even in their books.

You sure about that body?

 

 

 

Now Surprisingly you do not know that Abu Hanifa And Malik were Students of Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq 

From where did you get i do not know that Malik was a student of Jaafar? Or that there are claims that Abu Hanifa was a student of Jaafar?

I made it very clear in my post that the claim that Abu Hanifa being a student of Jaafar had no base. For somebody who tells others to do research you should atleast read my post before responding and making claims about me not knowing something that i made very clear in my post. Shame on you.

 

I made the text larger so you will not miss it this time

 

 

 

Regarding Imam Abu Hanifah Studying Under Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq

By Shaykh Taha Karaan

 

Regarding Imam Abu Hanifah’s allegedly having studied under Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq, please be informed as follows:

Imam Abu Hanifah was the pupil and intellectual successor of his mentor, Hammad ibn Abi Sulayman, who was the successor to Ibrahim an-Nakha’i, who was the successor to his uncle ‘Alqamah ibn Qays an-Nakha’i, who was the successor to Sayyiduna ‘Abdullah ibn Mas’ud, who was sent as a teacher to the city Kufah by Amir al-Mu’minin Sayyiduna ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab. This chain of intellectual descent is known to anyone knowledgeable of the legislative history of Islam.

In fact, Imam Abu Hanifah held his dicourses at the very same place in the masjid of Kufah where Ibn Mas’ud used to teach. This teaching circle was passed down generation after generation, by the men whose names you have just read: From Ibn Mas’ud to ‘Alqamah; from ‘Alqamah to Ibrahim; from Ibrahim to Hammad; and ultimately from Hammad to Abu Hanifah, after whom it was occupied by three of his students successively: firstly Zufar ibn Hudhayl; then Abu Yusuf; and then Muhammad ibn al-Hasan.

Now, regarding the link between Abu Hanifah and Ja’far as-Sadiq, you need to keep in mind the following:

Firstly

Imam Abu Hanifah was born in the year 80 AH

Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq was born in the year 83 AH

In other words, not only were they contemporaries; but Abu Hanifah was 3 years older than Ja’far as-Sadiq.

Secondly

Imam Abu Hanifah’s education took place in Kufah, in the school originally established by Ibn Mas’ud. Like other ‘ulama of his time, he used to go to Hijaz for Hajj, and passing through Madinah, he used to benefit from the knowledge of eminent men of learning, such as the father of Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq, namely Imam Muhammad al-Baqir. Many of the ahadith he narrates from Imam Muhammad al-Baqir are documented in the books of his pupils Abu Yusuf and Muhammad ibn al-Hasan.

Thirdly

It is true that Imam Abu Hanifah does narrate some ahadith from Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq. But that was according to the habit of the ‘ulama to narrate from even their contemporaries. If that alone is to be taken as evidence that Imam Abu Hanifah “studied” under Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq, then we will be bound to conclude that Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq similarly learnt from people other than his father, such as Ibn Shihab az-Zuhri, ‘Ata ibn Abi Rabah, ‘Urwah ibn Zubaur and Muhammad ibn al-Munkadir. Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq has narrated hadith from all of these men, and even others besides them. (Tahdhib al-Kamal vol. 5 p. 75)

Fourthly

In the year 132 the Abbasids came to power, having ousted the Umayyads. Abu Hanifah was then 52 years of age. The Abbasid khalifah Abu Ja’far al-Mansur wanted Abu Hanifah as his chief justice, which post he refused. In order to escape the vengeance of the khalifah, Abu Hanifah betook himself to the Hijaz where he spent the next 2 years. It is in terms of this sojourn in the Hijaz that he is reported to have said, “Were it not for the 2 years, Nu’man (i.e. Abu Hanifah) would have been destroyed”. Creative Shi’i imaginations would have us believe that what he actually meant thereby was that it was during this period that he gained his knowledge at the feet of Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq. The absurdity of this can be seen from the fact that by that time he was already so famous as a man of learning, that he was sought by the khalifah as the chief justice. Apart from that, he was, as already shown, over 50 years of age.

Fifthly

There is a famous story in circulation about Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq posing certain questions to Imam Abu Hanifah regarding the use of Qiyas (analogy). You should be informed that the story appears in this form in Shi’i books such as al-Kafi. In the Sunni literature it appears with significant changes.

First of all, the discussion is not between Abu Hanifah and Ja’far as-Sadiq, but between Abu Hanifah and Muhammad al-Baqir.

Secondly, the story goes as follows: It was only later that the Shi’ah would adapt the story to suit their own particular needs.

 

Al-Baqir asks Abu Hanifah if he is the one who is changing the Deen of his (al-Baqir’s) grandfather (Rasulullah sallallahu `alayhi wasallam) through the use of Qiyas. Abu Hanifah denies that he is changing the Deen. In order to demonstrate the falsehood of the rumours, he then goes on his knees in front of Imam al-Baqir and uses the comparison between (1) the share of a man and a woman in the spoils of war; (2) fasting and prayer with regard to a woman in menstruation having to pray in the former and not the latter; (3) urine and semen in respect of the method of purification for either one. After this lucid demonstration of his usage of Qiyas only where there is no textual evidence, and strictly adhering to the authority of text where it exists, Imam Muhammad al-Baqir stands up and kisses Imam Abu Hanifah on his forehead. (Manaqib Abi Hanifah by al-Kardari, p. 99)

 

Source: http://www.ilmgate.o...der-imam-jafar/

 

 

 

"...and Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (a.s) is from the 'Sada'at' of Ahlulbayt (a.s), narrates from his father, And narrated from him, Al Qas'im  and Na'fa'a, and Ata'ah and Muhammad bn al Mo'nkar, and Al-zhry, and narrated from him his son Musa Al Kazim, and Yah'ya Bn, Sa'id al-Ansari, and Abu Hanifa and the son of jarih bn Malik, and Muhammad bn Ish'aaq and Sufyian al Tho'ry and Sufyain bn Ay'ena, and Sh'oaba and yahya bn Sa'id al-Qtan........."

 

This was adressed in my previous post. 

 

 

 

It is true that Imam Abu Hanifah does narrate some ahadith from Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq. But that was according to the habit of the ‘ulama to narrate from even their contemporaries. If that alone is to be taken as evidence that Imam Abu Hanifah “studied” under Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq, then we will be bound to conclude that Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq similarly learnt from people other than his father, such as Ibn Shihab az-Zuhri, ‘Ata ibn Abi Rabah, ‘Urwah ibn Zubaur and Muhammad ibn al-Munkadir. Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq has narrated hadith from all of these men, and even others besides them. (Tahdhib al-Kamal vol. 5 p. 75)

 

 

He sat in the company of Imam Jaffr al-Sadiq for two years and learned a great deal from him, despite their disagreement after that time Abu Hanifa used to say: ‘Without those two years, Numan would have perished

 

 

Show me where Abu Hanifa made that statement in his book. Or bring a Chain that goes from Abdulrahman al-Sharqawi to Abu Hanifa

 

 

 ‘Musnad Imam Azam’ rendered in to Urdu by Maulana Sa’d Hasan Sahib. The text is a collection of traditions that have been narrated and compiled by Imam Abu Hanifa. On page 23 of the preface of the Musnad, Maulana Abdur Rashid Numani, whilst giving an overview of the life of Imam Abu Hanifa states:

 

“Imam Abu Hanifa stayed for a long time in the pure (city of) Madina and continuously attended the circles of Imam Baqar ®. In jurisprudence (fiqh) and traditions (hadith) he learnt many things during his time with Imam Baqar ® which he didn’t know before. Imam Baqar ® passed away on 7 Dhu’l Hijja 114 AH.

 

 

After Imam Baqar’s death, Imam Abu Hanifa had the greatest respect for his son Imam Ja’far Sadiq ®. He would attend Imam Ja’far’s classes quite often to acquire knowledge. Imam Abu Hanifa used to hold the opinion about the Ahl al-Bayt that hadith and fiqh, indeed all religious sciences, have surfaced from their Household”.

 

And where is the chain?

 

 

 

​If the narration is Authentic, No because  in both sects Sunni and Shia we have the four Common Usul,

 

Where in the hadith did it say if you follow the four common Usul you are not up to the level of paganism?

 

 

I said, "What should then they do?" The Imam replied, "They must look for one among you who have narrated our Hadithand have studied what is lawful and unlawful in our teachings and have learned our laws they must agree to settle their dispute according to his judgment because I have made him over you a ruler. When he may judge according to our commands and then it is not accepted from him the dissenting this judgment has ignored the commands of Allah and it is rejection of us. Rejecting us is rejecting Allah and that is up to the level of paganism and considering things equal to Allah."

 

Now the hadith is very cearn. If i reject the teachings, laws or commands of your imams i am up to the level of paganism

 

So i ask the question which you did not answer. I did not ask about rejecting the imama i asked.

 

 

 

If i reject the teachings or some of the teachings of your Imam found in your books im i up to the level of Paganism? If i reject the laws or some of the laws of your Imam found in your books im i up to the level of Paganism?

 

 

 

The prophet Clearly said and we all Acknowledge his : " I have left in you (Ummah) Two Weighy Things, Hold on to them and you will'Never' Go astray, The Book of Allah and My Ahlulbayt.

 

And Ahlubayt includes the wifes of Rasul Allah.

 

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 316

Narrated Anas:

A banquet of bread and meat was held on the occasion of the marriage of the Prophet to Zainab bint Jahsh. I was sent to invite the people (to the banquet), and so the people started coming (in groups). They would eat and then leave. Another batch would come, eat and leave. So I kept on inviting the people till I found nobody to invite.

Then I said, “O Allah’s Prophet! I do not find anybody to invite.”

He (the Prophet) said, “Carry away the remaining food.” Then a batch of three persons stayed in the house chatting. The Prophet left and went towards the dwelling place of Aisha and said, “Peace and Allah’s Mercy be on you, Ya Ahlel Bayt (O the people of the house)!”

She replied, “Peace and the mercy of Allah be on you too. How did you find your wife? May Allah bless you.”

Then he went to the dwelling places of all his other wives and said to them the same as he said to Aisha and they said to him the same as Aisha had said to him.

 

Ibn Abbas(rh) is also from ahlu bayt and he is the one who came with the name "Ahlu Sunnah"

 

Also according to your books 

 

Ali(rh gave bayha to Abu Bakr(rh) Umar(rh) and Uthman(rh) and Hasan(rh) gave bayha to MuawiyyaÑÍãå Çááøå

 

So why do you reject Abu Bakr and Umar?

It seems like we are the true followers of Ahlu Bayt.

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According to us my dear brother From our High Ranked Scholars Sunni's are Muslims , Here is the Opinions of our high Ranked Scholars (click here) 

 

 

 

“It is narrated that sparrow loves fulan (Abubakr) and fulan(Umar) and it is a Sunni. It should be killed in any way possible and executed and then eaten”.Anwar Numania page 211

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Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from Salih ibn al-Sindi from Ja'far ibn Bashir from abu Salma who has said that I heard Imam abu ‘Abdallah say the following. "We are the ones obedience to whom is obligatory by the commands of Allah. People have no other choice except to know us and they will not be excused for not knowing us. Those who know us are the true believers and those who would refuse to acknowledge our Divine authority are unbelievers. Those who would not know us and would not acknowledge us are straying and lost until they return to guidance and affirm the fact that Allah has made obedience to us obligatory. But if they would die in their straying condition Allah will deal with the way He would will."( Kafi H 470, Ch. 8, h 11)

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Statement:

I have not provided a false source. You just went to a different copy/print of the book. I will find you a scan. As for the sources. I have many more to go but i dont want throw many around. Lets focus on what i have provided. 

 

 

 

(1) As proven above they are False Sources, Because they are not found. Please Tell me your Definition of what is and how is "False".

(2) Don't waste your time. as you have not Done what I asked you, and that is to give at least one statement from Ayatollah al Sistani and Ayatollah Sayed Al Khamenei, Why not ask on their sites? Why do you Force False beliefs? Perhaps make time Valuable and actually do some proper Research.

(3) Your already Bringing Multiple Points.


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Statement:

And Ahlubayt includes the wifes of Rasul Allah.

 

(1) The wives are not Included in the Ahlulbayt (a.s)
(2) The Companions are not Included in Ahlulbaut (a.s)|
(3) The Ahlulbayt (a.s) The households on the prophet (a.s). 
(4) Please learn what Ahlulbayt means. 
(5) It looks like Bukhari is Contradicting him, we read in Sahih Al Buk
hari Hadith: 4.336 Narrated Abdullah:

 

 

The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointed to the house of Aisha, and said: “Fitna (trouble/sedition) is right here,” saying three times, “from where the side of the Satan’s head comes out.”
   

(6) Please Answer me This, If Aisha is Of Ahlulbayt, then on the War of Jamal, Who do Hold on to? Imam Ali (a.s) or Aisha? So we see that there is Conflict within Ahlulbayt (a.s)? How can this possible please Explain.

(7) we read in Sahih Muslim, Chapter of virtues of companions, section of the virtues of the Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet (S), 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1883, Tradition #61:

 

Narrated Aisha:

 

One day the Prophet (S) came out afternoon wearing a black cloak (upper garment or gown; long coat), then al-Hasan Ibn ‘Ali came and the Prophet accommodated him under the cloak, then al-Husain came and entered the cloak, then Fatimah came and the Prophet entered her under the cloak, then ‘Ali came and the Prophet entered him to the cloak as well. Then the Prophet recited: "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification (the last sentence of Verse 33:33)."

 

 

خرج النبي غداة وعليه مرط مرحل من شعر أسود فجاء الحسن فأدخله معه ، ثم جاء الحسين فأدخله معه ، ثم جاءت فاطمة فأدخلها، ثم جاء علي فأدخله ثم قال: إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا 

 

 

(8) Imam ‘Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain are the Ahlul-Bayt,

(9) The purification sentence in Qur’an (the last sentence of Verse 33:33) was revealed for the virtue of the above-mentioned individuals, and NOT for the wives of the Prophet (S).

 

(10) Another version of the "Tradition of Cloak”is written in Sahih al-Tirmidhi, which is narrated in the authority of Umar Ibn Abi Salama, the son of Umm Salama (another wife of Prophet), which is as follows:

The verse

 

 

"Verily Allah intends to ... (33:33)"

 

 

was revealed to the Prophet (S) in the house of Umm Salama. Upon that, the Prophet gathered Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain, and covered them with a cloak, and he also covered ‘Ali who was behind him. Then the Prophet said: "O' Allah! These are the Members of my House (Ahlul-Bayt). Keep them away from every impurity and purify them with a perfect purification.”Umm Salama (the wife of Prophet) asked: "Am I also included among them O Apostle of Allah?”the Prophet replied: "You remain in your position and you are toward a good ending."

 

 

- Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 351,663

 

 

نزلت هذه الآية على النبي "إنَّما يريدُ اللهَ...”في بيت أُم سلمه فدعا النبي فاطمه و حسناً و حسيناً فجعلهم بكسائه و علي خلف ظهره ثم قال: ألَّلهم هؤلاء أهل بيتي فاْذهب عنهم الرجس و طهرهم تطهيراً. قالت أمُّ سلمه: و أنا معهم يا نبي الله؟ قال أنتِ على مكانك و أنتِ إلى خير. 

 

 

(11) As we see, al-Tirmidhi also confirms that Imam ‘Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain are the Ahlul-Bayt, and the purification sentence in Qur’an (the last sentence of Verse 33:33) was revealed for the virtue of the above-mentioned individuals, and NOT for the wives of the Prophet (S). Also it is apparent from above authentic tradition that the Prophet himself excluded his wives from Ahlul-Bayt. If Umm Salama (ra) was among Ahlul-Bayt, why didn't the Prophet answer her positively? Why didn't he enter her into the cloak? Why did the Prophet tell her that she remains in her own position? If the Prophet (S) would consider Umm Salama among Ahlul-Bayt, he would surely have entered her to the cloak and would have prayed for her perfect purity as well.

 

It is also worth mentioning that the Prophet (S) did NOT say: "These are among the Members of my House". He rather said: "These are THE Members of my House”since there was no other member of Ahlul-Bayt who was alive at the time of the Prophet (S). Also notice that Umm Salama (ra) who is the virtuous wife of the Prophet is the narrator of the tradition to his son and gives the testimony that who Ahlul-Bayt are.

 

 

(12) In the tradition of al-Hakim the wording the last question and answer is as follows:

Umm Salama said: "O Prophet of Allah! Am I not one of the members of your family?”The Holy Prophet replied: "You have a good future but only these are the members of my family. O Lord! The members of my family are more deserving."

- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p416

(13) we read in Musanad Ibn Hanbal :

 

Narrated Abdullah ibn Nomair from Abdul Malik ibn Abi Sulaiman from Ata ibn Abi Ribah from those who heard Umm Al-Salama that the Messenger of Allah (saw) was in her house and Faatimah (s.a) came to her with food in a pot of stone which she had prepared. She entered upon the Prophet (saw) with it. The Messenger of Allah (saw) told her: "Call your husband and your two sons", Umm Salamah (r.a) said: 'Then Imam Alee (a.s) and Al-Hussain (a.s) and Al-Hassan (a.s) entered upon him, they sat down and ate from that food (made of flour, dates and meat). The Prophet (saw) was in his pyjamas covered with his cloak of Khaibar and I was praying in the other room. Then Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì revealed this verse:  {Allah only desires to keep away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household (Ahlulbayt), and purify you a thorough purification}.

 

 
Then he surrounded them with his cloak and brought out his hand towards the sky and said: “O Lord! These are my Ahlulbayt (a.s) and my chosen ones. Keep away any uncleanliness from them, and purify them a thorough purification. O Lord! These are my Ahlulbayt (a.s) and my chosen ones. Keep away any uncleanliness from them, and purify them, a thorough purification”. Umm Al-Salama (r.a) said: then I entered my head into the room and asked: "O Messenger of Allah (saw) am I also with you?" He replied: “ You are toward a good ending, you are toward a good ending.”
 
 
Abdulmalik said: narrated to me Aboo Laili from Umm Al-Salama another narration like the narration of Ata. Abdulmalik also said: narrated to me Dawood ibn Abi Auf Abi Al-Jihaf from Hawshab from Umm Al-Salamah like this in another narration.
 
 
Footnote: The Hadeeth is Saheeh (Authentic).
 
 
Source: Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Vol. 44, Pg. # 118-119. 

 

 

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Statement:

Where in the hadith did it say if you follow the four common Usul you are not up to the level of paganism?

 

Your level of Disbelief or Belief is based upon the Foundations Teachings And Faith, In the narration it is talking in the means of Jurisprudence. No need to force your self to much. Read the Whole reply and don't take things out of Context Thank you.

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You must be one of the people who Follow what the Media says. Dear brother, Shiekh Yasser Habib, is an Extremist like all other Extremist in all religions, he does not Represent our Math'hab, nor does he support it in any way. So get your Facts Correct and Then come talk to me. Would it be fair is I based your whole sect on one of the Sunni Extremists? No of course not, so don't wast your time. Your Failing, as I asked you to give one statement from ayatollah al Khamenei and al Sistani, Why no ask on the official site? Your Forcing a false belief, Which does not even have a portion in our faith, so Please go do some actual reading, you will get much further I assure you.

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Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from Salih ibn al-Sindi from Ja'far ibn Bashir from abu Salma who has said that I heard Imam abu ‘Abdallah say the following. "We are the ones obedience to whom is obligatory by the commands of Allah. People have no other choice except to know us and they will not be excused for not knowing us. Those who know us are the true believers and those who would refuse to acknowledge our Divine authority are unbelievers. Those who would not know us and would not acknowledge us are straying and lost until they return to guidance and affirm the fact that Allah has made obedience to us obligatory. But if they would die in their straying condition Allah will deal with the way He would will."( Kafi H 470, Ch. 8, h 11)

 

        
 

 

​(1) First of all Prove to me that its Authentic Thank you.
(2) If it is, Then You cannot be a Disbeliever Unless you acknowledge and purposely Refuse it.
(3) One who does not know of them in Context, cannot be a Disbeliever.
(4) your Failing on this one. I asked you for a statement from our high Scholars Mentioned above do you have any Authentic Hujja?

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Statement:

He was also a descendant of Abu Bakr(as).

(1) he is a Decent of Fatima Al Zahraa (a.s) The daughter of the prophet (s).
(2) The Hadith of Abu bakr Brought (birth) me two times is False I can prove so If you Wish.

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Statement:

80% of his students were Sunni. And no early source attributes shiism to him. Can you find me a non-shi3i realible source saying Jaafar ibn Muhammad Al Baqir was a Shi3i? '

 

(1) First of all, Don't make False Accusations that 80% or Whatever you like.
(2) we have more narrations on Ja'afar al Sadiq (a.s) then you, If you Reject them, that is due to your lack of knowing of the Sources, Your claims that because its a Shia sources, so "its all lies" is a very false accusations, What is your poof? If Hatred one? Also Can you tell me how man Hpw Fabricated Narrations are in Bukhari and Muslim? I can list some of you like. 

(3) he is the Song of Imam Al BAqir (a.s) the son of Ali Ibn al Hussain (a.s) Who was with his Father Imam Hussain (A.s) During the Tragedy of Karbala Against the oppressor yazid (L.A) We followers (Shia) Follow them.

(4) how is he sunni? Please provide proof from our sources.


(5)  Every prophet, in accordance with the divine command, appoints his successor. Muhammad declared ‘Ali to be his successor and ordered the community to obey him. But after the death of the Prophet, the caliphate was seized by Abu Bakr, ‘Umar, and Uthman. During their caliphate, except during the earlier days, Abu Bakr and ‘Umar consulted ‘Ali on all matters and acted upon his counsel. Moreover, the great ulama’ and eminent scholars of other religions who came to Medina in search of religious knowledge were completely satisfied with their discussions with ‘Ali. Throughout his life, ‘Ali continued to serve Islam in many ways. After his martyrdom, when the Bani Umayya became rulers, the imamate was cruelly suppressed. Imam Hasan Mujtaba, Imam Husain, Imam Zainu'l-Abidin, and Imam Muhammad Baqir were victims of the extreme cruelty of the Umayyads. All roads of approach to them were closed and except for a few of their followers, others could not benefit from their knowledge. Every one of them was murdered. In the beginning of the second century after the hijra, however, under the heavy pressure of the atrocities of the Umayyads, the people rose up against them. Bloody fighting ensued between the Bani Abbas and Bani Umayya. While the Bani Umayya were busy defending their own ruler, they could not continue their oppression of the Ahlul Bayt. Accordingly, Imam Ja'far Sadiq emerged from the seclusion imposed by the Umayyads. He instructed people concerning religious laws. Four thousand lovers of knowledge gathered around his pulpit and quenched their thirst from the Holy Imam's limitless ocean of knowledge. Some of his chief companions have recorded four hundred doctrines which are known as Usul al-Arba'mi'atin - meaning "The 400 Verdicts." Yafi'iy Yamani wrote that Imam Ja'far excelled all others in his knowledge. Jabir Ibn Hayyan Sufi, wrote a thousand-page compilation, listing nearly 500 booklets based on the teachings of Imam Ja'far. Some of the great Sunni jurists were also his students. Abu Hanifa, Malik Ibn Anas, Yahya Ibn Sa'id Ansari, Ibn Jarih, Muhammad Ibn Ishaq, Yahya Ibn Satid Qattan, Sufyan Ibn 'Uyayna, Sufyan Thawri - all benefitted from his immense learning. This great flowering of learning occurred at this time because the Bani Umayya obstructed the way of his ancestors, and unfortunately the Bani Abbas would restrain his descendants from speaking freely. The reality of Shi’as'ism was unveiled and the merits of the Ahlul Muhammad were proclaimed by Ja'far Sadiq. Accordingly, this sect became known as "Ja'fari," but there is no difference between Imam Sadiq and any of the four Imams among his ancestors and the four Imams who preceded him or the six who came after him. All were divinely commissioned spiritual guides. Although both friends and enemies recognized his excellence in knowledge and perfection in all merits, your predecessors refused to treat him as the most learned theologian and perfect man of his age. They refused to recognize his school of law along with the other four schools, even though he held the most exalted rank in learning and devotion, as admitted by your own ulama’. Since he belonged to the Ahlul Bayt of the Holy Prophet, he had a right to receive preference over others. In spite of these factors, your fanatical ulama’ have shown such callous disregard for the progeny of their Prophet that your high-ranking theologians, like Bukhari and Muslim, would not even record hadith from this faqih (jurist) or the Ahlul Bayt. Moreover, they did not quote hadith from any of the Imams or Sa'dat of the Holy progeny: Alawi, Husaini, Abidi, Musawi, Rizawi or from such ulama’ and jurists, like Zaid Ibn ‘Ali Ibn Husain, the Martyr, Yahya Ibn Zaid, Muhammad Ibn Abdullah, Husain Ibn ‘Ali, Yahya Ibn Abdullah Ibn Hasan and his brother Idris, Muhammad Ibn Ja'far Sadiq, Muhammad Ibn Ibrahim, Muhammad Ibn Zaid, Abdullah Ibn Hasan, ‘Ali Ibn Ja'far (Arizi), and others, all of whom were outstanding ulama’ and jurists and who belonged to the family of the Prophet. On the other hand, they have quoted hadith from people Like Abu Huraira, whose character is known to you all, and from the great liar and forger, Akrama, the Kharijite. Your own ulama’ have confirmed that these men were liars and yet, they accept their hadith with all their hearts. Ibn Bayyit writes that Bukhari has quoted as many as 1,200 hadith from the Kharijis and Nasibis, like Imam Ibn Hattan, the admirer of Ibn Muljim, the murderer of the Commander of the Faithful. The followers of Imam al-Azam (Abu Hanifa), Imam Malik, Imam Shafi'i and Imam Hanbal consider them pure Muslims though none of them belonged to the Ahlul Bayt of the Prophet, and every one of those sects is free to adopt his own ways though there are great differences in fundamentals as well as practices among them. How regrettable it is that they call the followers of Ja'far Ibn Muhammad As-Sadiq infidels! And in all places dominated by Sunnis, including Mecca, about which Allah says, "Whoever enters it is free," they are not free to express their faith or to perform their prayers. So you good people should know that we Shi’as are not the cause of differences in Islam; we have not brought about disunity among Muslims. As a matter of fact, much of the disruption appears from your side. It is you who call 100 million Muslims infidels, although they are faithful believers along with you.    

 

 

(6)If mashalla 80% of the students of Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (a.s) were Sunnis, can you please Give me one narration that is Concerning a Jurisprudence from the Four schools of thought?

(7) If you do find at least two or Three, Can you please tell me Why are they narrated from the Shafia,Maliki, Hanafi or Hanbali school of thought? (If you find one?)

(8) If they did Take it from ja'afar al Sadiq (a.s), How did they narrate and from whom? Does that mean They depended on his Teachings?

(9) if they did, Why is there not a 5th School of thought in Ahlul-Sunnah?

  

 

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Statement:

So when did Jaafar al Sadiq rule? When did he rule the Muslims?

Really. When was Jaafar a caliph?   

 

A Caliph of Religion does not need a Castle, Servants, Money, Like The Caliphs Abu bakr, Umar, Uthman, Who took Caliphate by force, and Shura was not even a command from the prophet, and No where in the Qruan does Allah Seek the people (Help) (Istghafrallah) To choose a Caliphate to Guide the Ummah. And yes he is the 6th caliphate of the Shia (Followers). A he is the Ruler of the Shia at that time. Tell me did all prophets have a Castle and Gold? Did they need thrones to Rule the people? some people didn't even turn to them? And Allah says he will put on this earth a Khalifa, So can they be Caliphs and yet they had no Complete Authority? So sorry your Definition of Caliphate is Wrong.

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Statement:

There is no such thing as a "Ja’fari Madhhab" 

It is laid to rest here: http://youpuncturedt...jafari-madhhab/

 

(1) Our Madhan is jafariya, What are you talking about?
(2) please give me a Statement from Ayatollah, Sistani, Khamenei, Khomenei, Bahjat,Sadiq al Shirazi, That the Mathab does not Exist Or give an Authentic narration and not an Article that has No Evidence.

 

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Statements:

Show me where Abu Hanifa made that statement in his book. Or bring a Chain that goes from Abdulrahman al-Sharqawi to Abu Hanifa

 

 

Just one thing, On your Article above, what has age go to do with anything? What if he is Older? how does that prove his More knowledgeable? Imam ja'afar Al Sadiq (a.s) from Ahlulbayt (a.s) and If The prophet (s) tells you to hold on to them, then only they are the one who have the complete knowledge of the Quran. And in your Article also, I don't see any Evidence what so ever, the Reference I Used was on of the Sunni Write, who Wrote on the 9 Schools of thought and their origin, its Approved also. Also Imam Dhabi Recorded in his Book a Whole debate between Abu Hanifa and Al Sadiq (a.s), At here are many. Also In Manaqib Abu Hanifa by al Muwafq Records these Agreements between them. Also the same with Halim al Jundi wrote Concerning the Issue. And that Website your Using also I have Criticized it for False Sources (I Checked it, and assure it (During a debate). Not the Best really. Imam Malik ib Anas, was one of those Who sat with the Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq and his Companions, Any one who reads will know this, and he took alot from his father al Baqir (a.s) and proved by al Shafi'i in the Matalib, and Dhabi in the Muthkirat.

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And We Reject Abu bakr and umar because they took the right of the Caliphate of Imam Ali (a.s) They Burnt the house of Fatima (I can prove this with ease), And they forced Imam Ali (a.s) Into bay'ya. Answer me this, Why did it take Six Months for the Imam To give Bay'ya? and Where is the Grave of Fatima al Zahraa? where is Here exact Location? Also she has A Son by the name of Muhsin, Can you please tell me how he died with an Authentic Narration? Also can you please tell me when did the prophet tell Abu bakr and Umar to go an do Shura? Why did they not attend the Burial? The prophet Peace be upon him appointed Imam Ali (a.s) as Caliphate on Ghadeer Khum and So we Follow Ali And not Abu bakr and Umar, We follow Hassan and not Muwiyah, We follow Hussain and not Yazid and so on...Our Caliphs Are Ahlulbayt (a.s). 

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(wasalam)

 
 

 

 

  

Edited by TheIslamHistory
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