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In the Name of God بسم الله

Muslim Prayer

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This is when I have trouble...

Muslims can pray to curse their enemies, that of which some have considered my Father and I to be that enemy. We have had to recognize and rebuke those demons sent to us, so I wonder how spiritual Muslims feel about cursing others. I know your curses work, I just wonder who you pray to when casting a curse.

 

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Greetings Agora,

Rebuking a demon is not the same as cursing someone you personally feel is an enemy.

A demon is not human... it is spirit.

However to rebuke a demon you only need the name of Yshwe(known as Jesus to the masses).

asalaam,

CLynn

I never said it was the same. I was just wondering how son of placid did it. Never seen it happen except in movies.

And Yshwe wasn't his name. His name was Aramaic and it was most probably pronounced "Eesho‘"

Yod

Sheen

Waw

‘Ayn

Eee sh ow ‘

:)

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Greetings Agora,

Ok, I started out not to answer, and just let son of Placid answer. Guess I should have left it. :)

asalaam,

CLynn

You didn't do anything wrong. I just replied to what you had said. I am a bit confused about how my question made you think that I thought cursing and rebuking demons were the same? Perhaps you could explain? That's why I said what I said, because I know they aren't the same. Why did you think I didn't know that?

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Muslims can pray to curse their enemies

 

Hi SoP

 

Where did you learn that? The Quran is replete with admonition for forgiveness. 

 

In any case, in Islamic parlance, there is no equivalent of the English word 'curse'.

 

The Arabic word "la'nat"  often translated in the Quran as 'curse' is extremely hard to explain.

 

The reason why it has been translated as 'curse' is that there is no English equivalent.  

 

Even a close cousin does not exist.  

 

In fact, it is even hard to understand.

 

Please don't ask me to explain. I don't understand it either. All I know is that it has no bearing to the English word 'curse'.

 

And by the way, nowhere does the Quran - nowhere - permit believers to curse anyone.  

 

Just my two pence worth. 

Edited by baqar
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Greetings baqar,

You also pray for the good of others? all others?

Salaam,

CLynn

I never pray for anyone's harm. Even those who oppress me, I pray for God to guide them. Because the Quran says that God's mercy is "all-encompassing". In fact, in our canonical prayers (al-Fatiha) we are taught to pray on behalf of every single entity which exists. We are taught that if we curse the oppressors and we ourselves are oppressive in any single way, then we too get cursed. Edited by eThErEaL
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Hello again,

My confusion. I guess because you were replying to son of Placid, and he had been talking about cursing enemies, I thought maybe you were suggesting that cursing enemies and rebuking demons were the same thing.

asalaam,

CLynn

Oh, okay, I see where your confusion came from. My bad. Sorry. I didnt mean to give that impression lol :)

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When we muslim use The world lanah/ curse,  it means to keep distance from someone/something... when we say lanah/curse on someone, it means we distance ourselves from him/her because of his/her actions... in other words we have nothing to do with them, we are not happy with his/her actions !!! when we say may Allah(swt)/God curse them, it means may Allah(swt) keep them away from his blessings/mercy....  Well that's what I have understood, but it's nothing to do with English definition of curse !

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Some of us also pray for 'hurt' to those that have abused us, oppressed us or harassed us. 

 

Some of us pray for misfortune to befall those we don't like.  

 

This is nowhere in Christianity.

Jesus taught us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. We are not to resist the evil man, but to rebuke the evil within him. It's not as easy as it looks.

 

There is nothing that says we are to go out of our way to find and pray for those who have done atrocities in this life, especially after they're dead.

Hebrews 9:27 says it is appointed unto man once to die, after this the judgement. Leaves no wiggle room for redemption through the prayers of others. At the same time the dead can't help you.

 

Praying for hurt for others is what pseudo-Christians call karma. A passive aggressive approach giving God the responsibility of appeasing their vengeance. Both Christians and Jews have been told to never seek vengeance against one another. Check Leviticus 19, and Romans 12.

 

The only way one should be able to pray for the misfortune of others would be if (in one's opinion).it would be beneficial for them to go through a particular trial. Problem lies in us never knowing the bigger picture, and could actually end up praying against the will of God. If you want to pray for someone's misfortune, pray God teaches them patience. ;)

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When we muslim use The world lanah/ curse, it means to keep distance from someone/something... when we say lanah/curse on someone, it means we distance ourselves from him/her because of his/her actions... in other words we have nothing to do with them, we are not happy with his/her actions !!! when we say may Allah(swt)/God curse them, it means may Allah(swt) keep them away from his blessings/mercy.... Well that's what I have understood, but it's nothing to do with English definition of curse !

What you described Is what "curse" means in English. It means to ask God to show His wrath on someone. As we all know, God's wrath means "to withdraw mercy".

It is problematic when we invoke "lanah" on individuals that are not mentioned by name in Quran. We should ask God to guide those people if we really think they are in error.

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This is when I have trouble...

Muslims can pray to curse their enemies, that of which some have considered my Father and I to be that enemy. We have had to recognize and rebuke those demons sent to us, so I wonder how spiritual Muslims feel about cursing others. I know your curses work, I just wonder who you pray to when casting a curse.

 

A 'curse' or La'nah is a prayer asking God to remove His mercy from a specific individual. 

 

The enemies of God, throughout, the Old Testament have been 'cursed' repeatedly by Him and His Representatives. 

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Genesis 9:20-25 And Noah began to be a farmer, and he planted a vineyard. Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. But Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father’s nakedness. So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him. Then he said: "Cursed be Canaan; A servant of servants. He shall be to his brethren.”

Hmmm. Not only is he cursing someone, but he's doing it to poor Canan who was uninvolved in the incident.

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Greetings Agora,

This was before the knowledge of Yshwe Messiah had come.

asalaam,

CLynn

That makes no sense. So God and his prophets are allowed to be douchebags as long as "Yshwe" (not how you pronounce his name in either Aramaic or Hebrew, by the way) wasn't here yet? Coolies. God is bipolar. Evil douchebag. Then "Yshwe" comes and he becomes loving and good :)
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That makes no sense. So God and his prophets are allowed to be douchebags as long as "Yshwe" (not how you pronounce his name in either Aramaic or Hebrew, by the way) wasn't here yet? Coolies. God is bipolar. Evil douchebag. Then "Yshwe" comes and he becomes loving and good :)

Were they even called prophets according to the Bible?

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Greetings Agora,

God made a new covenant.

19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it?

He was asking... will ye perceive it?

asalaam,

CLynn

Okay, got it. So it's okay for God and his "people" to be evil douches as long as he magically changes and brings a new covenant at some point in time after all of the evil has already been done.

Thank you for explaining. I think I'm finally getting a grasp on Christianity. :)

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Genesis 9:20-25 And Noah began to be a farmer, and he planted a vineyard. Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. But Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father’s nakedness. So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him. Then he said: "Cursed be Canaan; A servant of servants. He shall be to his brethren.”

Hmmm. Not only is he cursing someone, but he's doing it to poor Canan who was uninvolved in the incident.

All kinds of theories running around this passage, that's for sure.

I guess the worst would be picturing Noah beating his grandson with his staff until his prostrate settles down, cursing all the way...therefore, can't be true.

 

There's a much kinder version in which Ham boasted of seeing his father naked to his brothers. Of course word got back to Noah about Ham's manner of announcement, (which would have been a major dishonour), realized that his offspring down Ham's line was cursed with an immoral mind. Therefore Noah predicted the curse, as opposed to declaring it. It depends how you read Genesis 9:25. Was it said with anger, or  grief?

 

“Cursed be Canaan;

A servant of servants

He shall be to his brethren.”

 

It must have been an awful thing to realize that God just went to a lot of trouble to rid the earth from the deviance of man, then find out your youngest son has some (sexual) deviant mind, and so does one of his sons. Noah now knew Canaan would be a servant first to his own mind. I'm not sure if being a servant to his brothers would be part of this curse, or if this was the best of blessings he had for Canaan, (better than servants to others).

 

Blessed be the Lord,

The God of Shem,

And may Canaan be his servant.

27 May God enlarge Japheth,

And may he dwell in the tents of Shem;

And may Canaan be his servant.”

 

So was it a random curse to vent his righteous indignation or a rueful prophecy?

 

If you're looking for a deeper meaning I suggest you start with the last verse of Genesis 5, and to the end of 9. There is also a parallel noted with the three sons of Noah, Japheth represents the Intellectual side of man, Shem the Spiritual and Ham the Physical. Yeah, I dunno.

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