Muslim Prayer

[CLynn]

First, please forgive me if I have asked a similar question before... It would help if I could still track my earlier threads, posts, and comments... then perhaps I could just go back and read or continue an earlier thread... but alas I can no longer track anything which I have done previously.

 

My question is this:

 

What do muslims pray, when they pray?
 

Shukran and salaam.

[Grief]

 

First, please forgive me if I have asked a similar question before... It would help if I could still track my earlier threads, posts, and comments... then perhaps I could just go back and read or continue an earlier thread... but alas I can no longer track anything which I have done previously.

 

My question is this:

 

What do muslims pray, when they pray?
 

Shukran and salaam.

Are you asking about the 5 daily prayers or why we pray in general?

[CLynn]

I am asking about personal prayers...

 

I would like to know personally, what do you pray, whenever you pray?

 

Shukran and salaam.

[Grief]

I am asking about personal prayers...

 

I would like to know personally, what do you pray, whenever you pray?

 

Shukran and salaam.

Well, the various duas I linked you in days past are a few of our prayers. There are many more.

 

Most can be found here: http://duas.org/

 

The obligatory prayers are prayed as follows:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yog881G9W8

Edited October 14, 2013 by BuggyLemon

[TheIslamHistory]

I am asking about personal prayers...

 

I would like to know personally, what do you pray, whenever you pray?

 

Shukran and salaam.

 

 

You should read the Supplication for Dua al kumayl. Its beautiful and always brings tears to my eyes :(

http://www.duas.org/kumayl.htm

in Arabic its much more beautiful of course.

(wasalam) 

[Grief]

You should read the Supplication for Dua al kumayl. Its beautiful and always brings tears to my eyes :(

http://www.duas.org/kumayl.htm

in Arabic its much more beautiful of course.

(wasalam)

Lynn has already read Dua Kumail.

 

Dua Tawbah is just as beautiful I think:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YolW03Ua7-U

Edited October 14, 2013 by BuggyLemon

[baqar]

What do muslims pray, when they pray?

 

Shukran and salaam.

 

We pray for success in exams, wealth, bicycle, a car, an apartment, a spouse, lots of naughty children.

 

Some of us also pray for 'hurt' to those that have abused us, oppressed us or harassed us. 

 

Some of us pray for misfortune to befall those we don't like.  

 

For lots of different things - you name it.

 

Of course, God does not necessarily listen to all our prayers. 

 

These are known as 'personal' prayers.  And there is no timing for those. You can say them when you want.

 

Besides these 'personal prayers, Islam has also ordained prayers where the words and the procedure is preset. 

 

This includes the five compulsory daily prayers and an unending list of optional prayers. 

 

The compulsory prayers as well as some of the optional prayers  must be said at the right time. 

[PenOfTruth]

Lynn has already read Dua Kumail.

 

Dua Tawbah is just as beautiful I think:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YolW03Ua7-U

 

Im absolutely in love with monajat alta'been for imam zaynalabden (as).. its beautiful :') 

[Grief]

Im absolutely in love with monajat alta'been for imam zaynalabden (as).. its beautiful :') 

Can I get the link sis? Transliteration is not something Googleable xD .

Edited October 15, 2013 by BuggyLemon

[PenOfTruth]

Can I get the link sis? Transliteration is not something Googleable xD .

 

 

here t is in Arabic and English :

http://www.duas.org/sajjadiya/dua69.htm

 

do you want the YouTube link as well?

[Grief]

here t is in Arabic and English :

http://www.duas.org/sajjadiya/dua69.htm

do you want the YouTube link as well?

Nah that's good, thanks. JazakAllah.

[CLynn]

You should read the Supplication for Dua al kumayl. Its beautiful and always brings tears to my eyes :(

http://www.duas.org/kumayl.htm

in Arabic its much more beautiful of course.

(wasalam)

 

Greetings TheIslamHistory,

 

You have memorized and pray this long prayer?

 

Salaam,

CLynn

[Grief]

Greetings TheIslamHistory,

You have memorized and pray this long prayer?

Salaam,

CLynn

Quite a few of us have. We recite it every Thursday. Edited October 15, 2013 by BuggyLemon

[CLynn]

We pray for success in exams, wealth, bicycle, a car, an apartment, a spouse, lots of naughty children.

 

Some of us also pray for 'hurt' to those that have abused us, oppressed us or harassed us. 

 

Some of us pray for misfortune to befall those we don't like.  

 

For lots of different things - you name it.

 

Greetings baqar,

 

You also pray for the good of others?  all others?

 

Salaam,

CLynn

Edited October 15, 2013 by CLynn

[TheIslamHistory]

Greetings TheIslamHistory,

 

You have memorized and pray this long prayer?

 

Salaam,

CLynn

 

 

Heavens no. I wish to though. But I  have memorized fair of amount of prayers (Supplications) Such as "Ziarat ale yaseen" (Visiting the households of Yaseen). But many people have memorized it, from how many times they have read it. In Arabic 90% of the words in the supplication Rhyme with each other so it becomes not that difficult to memorize (This goes for all the Supplications From the prophet and his Households Peace be upon them all).

 

 

But one must understand whether your prayer is long or short, it is the intention that counts really. God hears everything and knows everything better then the everything it self. So keep in mind no doubt, it is your pure kind hearted intention that will make your prayers and Supplications Successful. 

(wasalam) :)   

Edited October 15, 2013 by TheIslamHistory

[baqar]

You also pray for the good of others?  all others?

 

Greetings Clynn

 

For some, yes

 

But I just don't have the heart to pray for every evil person - for oppressors, rapists, and the like.

 

When an attractive young woman is gang-raped by some people, do you think she can ever forgive them enough to pray for them ?

 

Simply out of the question!

 

Every transgression is  not forgivable.

 

Peace to you too

[PenOfTruth]

Greetings baqar,

 

You also pray for the good of others?  all others?

 

Salaam,

CLynn

 

our prophet (saw) and imams always tell us to pray for others before we pray for ourselves. and its one of the conditions if you want the prayers for yourself to be answered.

[PeaceLoving]

all others?

 

No,

 

I pray for every distressed person that God may relieve his (or her) pain but not for those who cause pain and unhappiness and distress in the lives of others.

[CLynn]

No,

 

I pray for every distressed person that God may relieve his (or her) pain but not for those who cause pain and unhappiness and distress in the lives of others.

 

Greetings PeaceLoving,

 

... and would you not better serve God and the world if you prayed for those to have their hearts and their ways changed?

 

¹⁰  the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

 

Read the parable of Zacchaeus

 

God wants all to be saved... He that has no illness has no need of a physician, but the one who is ill... he is the one that needs to be healed... he is the one that needs the Lord... he is the one that needs prayer.

 

¹⁰ While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. ¹¹ When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

¹² On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. ¹³ But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

 

Yahshua taught us that God wants us to pray for the lost... the eat with them, and teach them the ways of the Lord... so that all may be saved... this is the way the world is saved... the way the world will come to peace... when all men pray and care for one another.

 

 

³⁶ “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” ³⁷ Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ ³⁸ This is the first and greatest commandment. ³⁹ And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ⁴⁰ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

If we have all been sinners, which we have, and would like forgiveness then we must pray the same for others.

 

⁴⁰ Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to tell you.”

“Tell me, teacher,” he said.

⁴¹ “Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii,and the other fifty. ⁴² Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?”

⁴³ Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven.”

“You have judged correctly,” Jesus said.

 

 

he turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Look at this woman kneeling here. When I entered your home, you didn’t offer me water to wash the dust from my feet, but she has washed them with her tears and wiped them with her hair. ⁴⁵ You didn’t greet me with a kiss, but from the time I first came in, she has not stopped kissing my feet. ⁴⁶ You neglected the courtesy of olive oil to anoint my head, but she has anointed my feet with rare perfume.

⁴⁷ “I tell you, her sins—and they are many—have been forgiven, so she has shown me much love. But a person who is forgiven little shows only little love.”

 

'a person who has been forgiven much, loves much, but one who has been forgiven little, loves little'

I have often admonished myself over these very things.  Do I love much, or do I love little?  Have I been forgiven much, or have I been forgiven little?  I want to be one who loves much.  I believe this is what we are all admonished and called to do.

 

 

³¹ Do to others as you would have them do to you.

³² “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. ³³ And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that.

 

²⁷ “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, ²⁸ bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. ²⁹ If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. ³⁰ Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. ³¹ Do to others as you would have them do to you.

 

 

These are the things Yahshua taught us to do.

Salaam and blessings to you,

CLynn

Edited October 15, 2013 by CLynn

[Ali-F]

Who is Yahshua

[baqar]

Who is Yahshua

 

Another name for Jesus

[awaiting_for_the.12th]

These are the things Yahshua taught us to do.

Salaam and blessings to you,

CLynn

Lets be honest Yahshua didn't teach this, it was inspired by some people who believe Jesus might have said these things.

Jesus (as) teachings were purely monotheistic, which has a big component of Justice (you might have heard of it in which the raped and the one raping don't send blessings on each other and hold hands on unicorn but rather there is a sin and then there is a punishment for it). 

[baqar]

Lets be honest Yahshua didn't teach this, 

 

 

According to your beliefs, Yahshua may not have taught all that.

 

But Clynn is quoting from her scriptures.

 

If you think she is not being honest, prove to her by quoting relevant passages from her scriptures that she is not being honest.

 

Let us not push our non-Muslims guests too much. 

 

Treat them well so they can see how friendly and thoughtful Muslims can be.

 

As our first Imam, the incomparable Imam Ali, has said

 

Treat people in a manner that as long as you live, they long for your company. And when you die, they mourn your loss. 

 

It is commonly understood by scholars of all persuasions that when he said 'people', he literally meant 'all people', not just those belonging to a particular group. 

 

Edited October 16, 2013 by baqar

[Mu3lam]

Who is Yahshua

Jesus' name translated into Modern Hebrew -- a language that was invented 200 years ago and has nothing to do with the language that Isa (as) spoke [aramaic]. 

[CLynn]

yoot -
sheen -
waw -
ein -

yshwe

 

 

[TheIslamHistory]

Greetings PeaceLoving,

 

... and would you not better serve God and the world if you prayed for those to have their hearts and their ways changed?

 

 

 

 

But how would we serve god? We therefore Serve others to Serve God. We are created as a Whole race. So its out duty to Help others.

[awaiting_for_the.12th]

 

 

According to your beliefs, Yahshua may not have taught all that.

 

But Clynn is quoting from her scriptures.

 

If you think she is not being honest, prove to her by quoting relevant passages from her scriptures that she is not being honest.

 

Let us not push our non-Muslims guests too much. 

 

Treat them well so they can see how friendly and thoughtful Muslims can be.

 

As our first Imam, the incomparable Imam Ali, has said

 

Treat people in a manner that as long as you live, they long for your company. And when you die, they mourn your loss. 

 

It is commonly understood by scholars of all persuasions that when he said 'people', he literally meant 'all people', not just those belonging to a particular group. 

 

 

ahh No.

Calling it how I see it. 

[PeaceLoving]

yoot -

sheen -

waw -

ein -

 

Aramaic and Arabic are indeed sister languages.

 

The three 'sheen', 'waw' and 'ain' are also Arabic characters.

 

By the way, I don't think the spelling of the fourth character - 'ein' - is correct.

 

'Ein', which means 'a' or 'one' in German, rhymes with the English word 'dine' or with the main character in the TV series 'Seinfeld'.

 

But the character the gentleman spoke of rhymes with 'man' or 'fan', and should probably be spelled as 'ayen' or 'ain'.

 

Please listen to the video again.

 

In any case, if his name is 'Ye-show', why do some people call him 'Yahshua'

 

Thanks

[PeaceLoving]

and would you not better serve God and the world if you prayed for those to have their hearts and their ways changed?

 

Do you really want me to pray for the likes of Ariel Castro, who locked up three women for ten years and regularly raped them?

 

My time in life is short.  I have more important things to pray for. 

 

And I think it is hypocritical to say that it is possible to pray for someone like Ariel Castro, Adolf Hitler of Joseph Stalin.

 

You can pray if you have the heart to.

 

But God will deliver His judgment regardless how much you pray for them. 

 

He is more merciful than you or me but remember He is also more just.

 

He will not let the voice of the distressed and the oppressed be drowned by your prayers.

 

So you'd be better off not wasting your time, except perhaps on people you have a personal sympathy for.

 

That is different of course. 

¹⁰ While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. ¹¹ When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

¹² On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. ¹³ But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

 

Yahshua taught us that God wants us to pray for the lost... the eat with them, and teach them the ways of the Lord... so that all may be saved... this is the way the world is saved... the way the world will come to peace... when all men pray and care for one another.

 

 

³⁶ “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” ³⁷ Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ ³⁸ This is the first and greatest commandment. ³⁹ And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ⁴⁰ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

If we have all been sinners, which we have, and would like forgiveness then we must pray the same for others.

 

⁴⁰ Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to tell you.”

“Tell me, teacher,” he said.

⁴¹ “Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii,and the other fifty. ⁴² Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?”

⁴³ Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven.”

“You have judged correctly,” Jesus said.

 

 

he turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Look at this woman kneeling here. When I entered your home, you didn’t offer me water to wash the dust from my feet, but she has washed them with her tears and wiped them with her hair. ⁴⁵ You didn’t greet me with a kiss, but from the time I first came in, she has not stopped kissing my feet. ⁴⁶ You neglected the courtesy of olive oil to anoint my head, but she has anointed my feet with rare perfume.

⁴⁷ “I tell you, her sins—and they are many—have been forgiven, so she has shown me much love. But a person who is forgiven little shows only little love.”

 

'a person who has been forgiven much, loves much, but one who has been forgiven little, loves little'

I have often admonished myself over these very things.  Do I love much, or do I love little?  Have I been forgiven much, or have I been forgiven little?  I want to be one who loves much.  I believe this is what we are all admonished and called to do.

 

 

³¹ Do to others as you would have them do to you.

³² “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. ³³ And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that.

 

²⁷ “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, ²⁸ bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. ²⁹ If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. ³⁰ Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. ³¹ Do to others as you would have them do to you.

 

And by the way, I seriously doubt if any of the stories you have quoted above refers to people as evil as the ones I have named in this post. 

 

Being 'lost' is quite different from being real bad.

 

Some of those people also showed some remorse and contrition.

 

Being a sinner is quite different from being full-blown evil.

 

Praying can help in case of some people but certainly not all.

¹⁰  the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

 

 

 

Are you trying to say that Jesus will see to it that every human being will go to heaven?

[PeaceLoving]

What on earth did God make hell for? 

[CLynn]

What on earth did God make hell for? 

 

Greetings PeaceLoving,

lol - loved your replies.

Yahshua came to seek and save the lost, but yes, I agree with you there are those that will not be saved.  I think this must make God's heart very sad, when any of His creation is lost to the evil one.

I guess to more correctly state what I mean

even though it is written in the scriptures (OT) - I myself do not ever have vengefulness in my heart.  I can never pray for ill to befall a person but rather I pray that they may see the light and be changed.  I follow what Yahshua taught.

I never wish to see people punished - I wish to see them saved.

I could never wish ill on any person unless they were truly, truly, evil - like a Jeffrey Dammer, or Hannibal Lecter.  

I have to say that, even though Ariel Castro did evil, it is obvious that he was a sick man, and he did seem to recognize his sickness and did not seem sorry to be caught.  I feel sorry for him that this evil spirit had hold of him and his life.  Even though he did evil I still could not pray for evil to be visited on him, but I also did not feel bad when I heard that he took his own life.  There really was no point in his continuing to live, and as a friend put it... why didn't he do that years ago instead of doing harm to those girls.

Hitler was evil.  I am not sorry what happened to him, though again I would not have prayed for it.  I did not feel any sort of glee when I heard that Osama Bin Laden had been killed either.  A lost soul, for me, is never a thing to celebrate.  I never offered prayers for his capture and punishment either... better to have prayed for a change of his heart... but I admit I offered no prayers whatsoever on his behalf while he was living, and perhaps I should have.  I did offer up prayer after his death.  It is hard to say what I felt... sort of a deadened emptiness that just such things exist in the world.  I did feel that even though he was not what could be considered a good man, the way his life ended was wrong.  To me he certainly was not a man who served God, but to his own mind he did.

But most people are not evil, most are lost and I believe in doing as Yahshua commands and praying good, not ill, for them.  I do not ever pray for ill.  I think it is up to God to judge and that I am to pray for the good of people, and not just those which I deem 'good' and worthy.  I will not allow evil to blacken my heart.  I will serve God and not His enemy.  If I allow my heart to be blackened I become one of the enemies, and not one of God's innocent children, and Yahshua said, we must come as innocent children to enter the presence of God.  We must be pure of heart to enter the realm of heaven.  Then enemy of God seeks to take away this purity of heart and intention. 

 

Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

³ And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

⁴ Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

 

And I believe that a pure heart prays for the good of all.

 

Salaam and blessings to you,

CLynn

Edited October 16, 2013 by CLynn

[PeaceLoving]

Greetings PeaceLoving,

 

 

Greetings Clynn

 

There are two types of people on earth - theorists and realists. 

 

You have a noble heart but you are living in a sea of theories.  

Yahshua came to seek and save the lost, but yes, I agree with you there are those that will not be saved.  I think this must make God's heart very sad, when any of His creation is lost to the evil one.

 

A person is sad only if he cannot change the state of affairs.

 

That is not true for God.

 

God can never be sad.

 

He does what He wants.

 

Why on earth would He be sad? 

 

There is absolutely no reason for Him to be sad.

  I can never pray for ill to befall a person but rather I pray that they may see the light and be changed. 

 

Not wishing evil to befall someone is quite different from praying specifically for someone.

 

I don't particularly pray that evil befall anyone.

 

But why should I waste my time praying specifically for someone who is trying to live off the rights of others? 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Your statement also shows that you have never really suffered at the hands of someone.

 

But ask a mother whose young daughter has been brutally assaulted by a group of young men.

 

I can bet any amount that you can never convince her to pray for those devils.

I have to say that, even though Ariel Castro did evil, it is obvious that he was a sick man, and he did seem to recognize his sickness and did not seem sorry to be caught.  I feel sorry for him that this evil spirit had hold of him and his life.  Even though he did evil I still could not pray for evil to be visited on him, but I also did not feel bad when I heard that he took his own life.  There really was no point in his continuing to live, and as a friend put it... why didn't he do that years ago instead of doing harm to those girls.

 

Leave it to God to decide whether Castro was a sick man or an evil man.

 

It is His prerogative - not yours or mine.

 

Giving Castro the benefit of doubt will not change his destiny - whether it is hell, heaven or whatever.

 

It is all God's business - not ours. 

A lost soul, for me, is never a thing to celebrate. 

 

I think you have misunderstood the expression 'lost souls' in the NT.

 

In the NT, a 'lost soul' refers to an ordinary sinner, not to the likes of Castro and Hitler.  

 

When Jesus spoke of 'lost souls', he was speaking of just  'ordinary sinners', not 'truly evil' people.

 

And  Jesus was also quite blunt and clear about retribution -  Remember his warning about the day of judgment

 

• 'there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth'.

 

I think that at one point, he also said that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had a better chance of salvation than the Pharisees.

 

In other words, the Pharisees were 'truly evil'.

 

So even Jesus recognized that some people have no chance in the next life.

 

They were so evil that nothing can save them.  

 

As far as the eye can judge and considering how Jesus described the Pharisees and scribes, Castro and Hitler were  worse than 'truly evil'.

But most people are not evil, most are lost 

 

God alone knows the number of those who are 'just lost' as opposed to those who are 'truly evil'.

 

It is a waste of time that you are I sit here trying to guess the numbers.

 

He knows who will be forgiven and who will not be.

 

It is no use trying to speculate.

And I believe that a pure heart prays for the good of all.

 

Like my dear friend Placid, you are a kind person.

 

But do what you may, some people are definitely going to hell.

 

Don't waste your time trying to think that they are 'lost' and that they can be saved.

 

Leave all that to the Lord. 

 

After all, God is the only One who is both just and merciful.

 

Remember if you try to be just, it will be at the expense of mercy.

 

Likewise, if you try to be merciful, it will be at the cost of justice. 

 

We are incapable of being both just and merciful at the same time.

 

But God is not.

And I believe that a pure heart prays for the good of all.

 

As I said before, I pray only for those that I love or for those in distress.

 

I couldn't be bothered about the rest.

 

The Merciful God will look after them.  

 

By the way, do you pray for Barack Obama or Queen Elizabeth? 

 

I think your time will be much better spent praying for the hungry in Africa, for the dispossessed in Syria, for the orphans of Iraq and so many others.

 

Time is precious, Clynn.

 

Don't waste it unnecessarily on those who do not deserve it -  the likes of Castro and Hitler.

 

God has more time to decide what to do with them.

 

Cheers 

Edited October 16, 2013 by PeaceLoving

[CLynn]

Greetings PeaceLoving,

Again I appreciate all that you say for I think we mostly agree.

Your statement;

"It also shows that you have never suffered at the hands of someone."

 

I don't know that I would say that.  I have lost everything before in my life, my home, my security, everything once, at the hands of another.  I have had people to forgive, knowing that 'they know not what they do'(the words of Yahshua on the cross).  
No I have not suffered anything so great as what we have discussed here, for I have not been a victim of physical pain, abuse, or loss of a loved one, but you are obviously not familiar with the Amish school shooting that took place in Pennsylvania, United States... and not only the ability, but the necessity felt, by those people to forgive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_school_shooting

It is incumbent on me to remain loving and forgiving if I want to one day join my Father in His kingdom.  If I choose otherwise, I choose to let evil win in my soul.  I must do as the Father commands me to do.

Castro and Hitler too, were lost souls... their souls were just arguably blacker than others... but most people are not beyond redemption.
I believe Yahshua was speaking of all people because as you rightly say, only God knows when a soul is lost beyond redemption, and who knows when one might be redeemed.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%208&version=KJV

This woman was forgiven when others would have considered her beyond redemption.

Indeed, you are correct, 'the path and the gate is narrow and there will be few that find it' (Yahshua's words).
This I believe is true, because people will not hold onto their innocence, their purity of heart... there are very few who will not be influenced by the world and the thinking of man, to have their hearts blackened... or hardened... turned towards feelings of ill rather than feelings of good.  Our only chance is to keep our hearts pure, and this is what Yahshua was trying to teach, for those with ears to listen and hearts to understand.  He came to teach the message of Love.
I don't, as you say, 'waste my time believing all can be saved'... I know that they will not be.  I only concern myself with the message of Yahshua, and that is to keep Love in my heart and to not let the enemy touch it... to turn away from all the ways that he would blacken my heart if I allowed it and did not refresh my soul daily with the Word that is God, and in doing as God commands... and that is to love, not to seek vengeance, for as He says
"Vengeance is mine says the Lord"

18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19 Dearly beloved, [seek not to avenge], but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

This is the very great challenge put before us... to know how to love even through the greatest of trials... and to put that Love out to the world.  This is the way we change the world.

I pray for all leaders everywhere, that God may guide them in their decisions.
I participated in the day of fasting and prayer on Sep. 7th, at the call of the Catholic Pope, for the situation in Syria... and you see what results have been brought?

I pray for everyone, everywhere, and for all situations that there may be a change in the world... in the hearts of mankind everywhere.
We never know what good our prayers may wrought, when we pray for good and not ill.  I put my hope and my trust in my God and in doing as He commands us to do.

Salaam and blessings to you, I enjoy our talks, :)
CLynn

Edited October 16, 2013 by CLynn

[PeaceLoving]

I don't know that I would say that.  I have lost everything before in my life, my home, my security, everything once, at the hands of another.  I have had people to forgive, knowing that 'they know not what they do'(the words of Yahshua on the cross).  

 

 

Greetings Clynn

 

I am sorry I was not aware of that

It is incumbent on me to remain loving and forgiving if I want to one day join my Father in His kingdom.  If I choose otherwise, I choose to let evil win in my soul.  I must do as the Father commands me to do.

 

That is a sign of your high character.

 

Good people are indeed forgiving.

 

But it does not change the fact that evil people may not be forgiven by God. 

Castro and Hitler too, were lost souls... their souls were just arguably blacker than others... but most people are not beyond redemption.

I believe Yahshua was speaking of all people because as you rightly say, only God knows when a soul is lost beyond redemption, and who knows when one might be redeemed.

 

 

As I said, it is divine prerogative to decide whether they were lost souls who would be forgiven or whether or whether they were so evil that they will suffer. 

 

You and I have no right to try and find excuses for them by saying that they were lost souls. 

 

If they were just lost souls, God might forgive them.

 

If He considers their actions worthy of further action, He will take necessary steps. 

 

I cannot say even about my own self if I will be forgiven for my sins.

 

No man can judge his own actions. 

I pray for everyone, everywhere, and for all situations that there may be a change in the world... in the hearts of mankind everywhere.

We never know what good our prayers may wrought, when we pray for good and not ill.  I put my hope and my trust in my God and in doing as He commands us to do.

 

That is very worthy indeed

 

And surely God does listen to prayers.

 

But not to all of them.

 

The day of judgment will tell us who will be forgiven and who will be punished.

 

Let us wait and see! 

 

Cheers

[PeaceLoving]

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%208&version=KJV

 

Please note that forgiveness is not exclusive to the teachings of Jesus,

 

My post was not intended to decry forgiveness anyway but to be aware of the reality that judgment will not escape anyone.

 

In any case, here is some material that might interest you.  For brevity, only the relevant part of verses are given below:

 

[5:45] And We prescribed for them therein - life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth.

 

But whoso foregoes (his right to retaliate), shall atone (for his sins). 

 

[16:126] If you punish (in retaliation for a crime), inflict like punishment (in other words, do not exceed).

 

But if you endure patiently, it will be better.

 

[3:134] Those who spend in ease and adversity, those who repress their anger and forgive men.

 

[42:37] Those who avoid the bigger sins and indecencies and when they are angry, they forgive.

 

These are just a few examples.

 

There are more verses in the Quran on forgiveness and patience than any other topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_school_shooting

 

 

Were you there?