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Omer2708

How Can A Human Becoma A "god"

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Marry a minimum of 3 wives, go to Church every Sunday, perform some Occult rituals in a temple, give 10% of all yer money to the Church, don't drink caffeine or smoke, volunteer all of your free time to the Church, wear special temple underpants, and believe in the following:

 

  • Native Americans are actually Jews.  The reason they are brown is because they are dirty sinners.
  • Black people exist because they weren't staunch Jesus supporters in their last life.
  • Demons are people that were anti-Jesus in their last life.
  • White people exist because they were valiant warriors for the sake of Jesus in their last life.
  • Joseph Smith, a notorious story teller, is a modern-day Prophet and the Prophethood continues through a line of Sunni-like successors.
  • The Native Americans/Jews wrote a record of their people in "reformed Egyptian" on some golden plates and buried them in a hill near where Joseph Smith would later live as a kid.
  • An ordinary Egyptian burial papyrus scroll that was found with dead mummies and has Pagan death rituals written on it is actually a scroll written by the hand of Abraham (as) about his life.
  • Joseph Smith was able to translate all of these Egyptian works despite the fact that he had no background in Egyptology whatsoever and that many prominent Egyptologists have proven his translations to be completely false.
  • Joseph Smith was a martyr in the Sunni-style (i.e. he started shooting other people at random and then became a martyr when they shot back).
  • The Republican party is God's party.

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Greetings Omer,

 

A human can not become a God.

God chose to come to us in the flesh... as a human.

God can do whatever He chooses to do... He is God.

He can say, "Be", and it is. :)

 

Salaam,

CLynn

Edited by CLynn

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Greetings Clynn,
 

If he came in the flesh as a human, then why he let himself get crucified, if he is the "god" why didnt he stop that and how can people kill a "god"?
I wouldnt harm myself to prove anything.

 

Salams

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Greetings Clynn,

 

If he came in the flesh as a human, then why he let himself get crucified, if he is the "god" why didnt he stop that and how can people kill a "god"?

I wouldnt harm myself to prove anything.

 

Salams

 

Greetings Omer,

 

You asked

"If he came in the flesh as a human, then why he let himself get crucified, if he is the "god" why didnt he stop that ..."

Why did He allow himself to be crucified?  Because it was what He willed.  It was clear after His death, the reason for His death, to all those who had eyes to see... to the disciples who had known and walked with Him and had not understood either until the time He was resurrected... then their understanding was opened.

 

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.

51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

 

and how can people kill a "god"?

 

People didn't kill Him it only appeared that they did.  Yahshua gave up His own life into the hands of the Father.

 

39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.

40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.

41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

Yahshua was simply doing as the Father willed, fulfilling what the scriptures foretold.

As far as 'speaking to Himself'... this is the flesh speaking to the Spirit and it is the Spirit, the Father that is the Creator, who designs all things... it is the Creator's will that must be done, not the will of the flesh.  The flesh was yielding itself to the will of the Creator.

Yahshua yields His life into the Father's hands... death of any ordinary human would have taken much longer... and so 'it only appeared to them that they had killed Him'.

44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the middle[torn in two].

46 And  Jesus  calling out with a loud voice, said," Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit", and having said thus, he gave up the ghost[breathed His last].

47 Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.

48 and all the people that had gathered to witness this sight when they beheld what took place, they beat their breasts and went away.

49 And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things.

"I wouldnt harm myself to prove anything."

 

Would you find that you had a devoted love for someone who was willing to give up their life for you though?

Would you not give up your life for someoone you love?

13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. - the Word of Yahshua

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. - the Word of Yahshua

 

There is no greater Love than the Love of God... this is what the coming in the flesh as Yahshua demonstrated.

 

Salaam and blessings to you,

CLynn

Edited by CLynn

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Greetings Omer,

"I wouldnt harm myself to prove anything."

 

Would you find that you had a devoted love for someone who was willing to give up their life for you though?

Would you not give up your life for someoone you love?

13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. - the Word of Yahshua

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. - the Word of Yahshua

 

There is no greater Love than the Love of God... this is what the coming in the flesh as Yahshua demonstrated.

 

Salaam and blessings to you,

CLynn

 

 

Greetings CLynn, Let me explain what I wanted to say with "I wouldnt harm myself to prove anything."

Dying for someone is different from harming yourself. I wouldnt harm myself to prove that I am right, or smart or whatever. I mean I wouldnt harm myself for my interests. 

 

I got a question for you, who wrote the Bible and which words are in it, word of Jesus (as) or someone else? In the Qur'an its 95% Allah speech and the rest 5% is from Prophets (pbut) and other people. 

Why had Jesus to come personally, why couldnt he send a messenger like Allah swt did? 

 

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LOL @ CLynn,

 

Why is the sky blue? Why is blue blue?

 

Whoa, what you find out when you aren't looking.

Note; Quran just dropped from 100% - 95% Allah speech. <---- Never saw that comin.

This must be that new Muslim religion thing.

 

I like how the OP asks for Christians only. Lucky you were here.

 

John 1:1, but if they don't really trust Christians let them seek Jewish council.

 

Yochanan 1

Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:3], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with, etzel, Mishle 8:30;30:4) Hashem, and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13 i.e., the Ma’amar Memra]

 

 

In answer to "How can that be?"

 

Yochanan 1

12 But as many as him lekabel pnei Moshiach (receive him as Moshiach), to them he gave the tokef (authority) to become in fact yeladim haElohim [DEVARIM 14:1].

 

yeladim haElohim = children of God.

 

To get a clear view I'd suggest reading 1 thru 12 as it's a great flashback to Genesis 1. Actually 13 and 14 describe what happened in the day, but takes to verse 35 to really grasp the full concept of God and Jesus.

 

14 And the Dvar Hashem took on gufaniyut (corporeality) and made his sukkah, his Mishkan (Tabernacle) among us [YESHAYAH 7:14], and we [shlichim, 1Y 1:1-2] gazed upon his Kavod [SHEMOT 33:18; 40:34; YESHAYAH 60:1-2], the Shechinah of the Ben Yachid from Elohim HaAv, full of Hashem’s Chesed v’Emes.

 

Granted, it is a heavy study.

Those interested will do the study and understand, the rest will come back with more silly questions.

Edited by Son of Placid

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cant you give a straight answer yourself?

 

thanks.

Hi PenOfTruth.

 

Note how the thread was bounced around before a Christian even answered and how regardless the response, they continued the same path anyway?

 

You mean answer questions like "Why did he pray to himself?"

 

This thread is not looking for straight answers. This is why I say, If you want to know what I know, study what I studied.

 

Nah, I'd explain what I believe at the first sign of sincerity.

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Hi PenOfTruth.

 

Note how the thread was bounced around before a Christian even answered and how regardless the response, they continued the same path anyway?

 

You mean answer questions like "Why did he pray to himself?"

 

This thread is not looking for straight answers. This is why I say, If you want to know what I know, study what I studied.

 

Nah, I'd explain what I believe at the first sign of sincerity.

So Is Jesus God? And if was God Was he the First God? or the Second or Third? When did the Trinity Exist?

LOL @ CLynn,

 

Why is the sky blue? Why is blue blue?

 

Whoa, what you find out when you aren't looking.

Note; Quran just dropped from 100% - 95% Allah speech. <---- Never saw that comin.

This must be that new Muslim religion thing.

 

I like how the OP asks for Christians only. Lucky you were here.

 

John 1:1, but if they don't really trust Christians let them seek Jewish council.

 

Yochanan 1

Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

1 Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:3], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with, etzel, Mishle 8:30;30:4) Hashem, and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13 i.e., the Ma’amar Memra]

 

 

In answer to "How can that be?"

 

Yochanan 1

12 But as many as him lekabel pnei Moshiach (receive him as Moshiach), to them he gave the tokef (authority) to become in fact yeladim haElohim [DEVARIM 14:1].

 

yeladim haElohim = children of God.

 

To get a clear view I'd suggest reading 1 thru 12 as it's a great flashback to Genesis 1. Actually 13 and 14 describe what happened in the day, but takes to verse 35 to really grasp the full concept of God and Jesus.

 

14 And the Dvar Hashem took on gufaniyut (corporeality) and made his sukkah, his Mishkan (Tabernacle) among us [YESHAYAH 7:14], and we [shlichim, 1Y 1:1-2] gazed upon his Kavod [SHEMOT 33:18; 40:34; YESHAYAH 60:1-2], the Shechinah of the Ben Yachid from Elohim HaAv, full of Hashem’s Chesed v’Emes.

 

Granted, it is a heavy study.

Those interested will do the study and understand, the rest will come back with more silly questions.

 

 

Made no sense at all to the Title of the topic. Second of all its only a silly Question to those who Can't Answer it.

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Greetings CLynn, Let me explain what I wanted to say with "I wouldnt harm myself to prove anything."

Dying for someone is different from harming yourself. I wouldnt harm myself to prove that I am right, or smart or whatever. I mean I wouldnt harm myself for my interests. 

 

Greetings Omer,

 

That's why you're not God. :)

You don't have the mind of God.

 

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. :)

 

I do wonder if you could answer my question though:

"Would you find that you had a devoted love for someone who was willing to give up their life for you?"

 

Salaam and blessings,

CLynn

Edited by CLynn

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Greetings Omer,

 

That's why you're not God. :)

You don't have the mind of God.

 

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. :)

 

I do wonder if you could answer my question though:

"Would you find that you had a devoted love for someone who was willing to give up their life for you?"

 

Salaam and blessings,

CLynn

 

Salam Clynn, yes I agree the thoughts of the Lower being cannot be the same as the higher being. But the problem we are trying to understand here, how the the higher being can be Divided into three. Logically it contradicts the fact that God is one before everything came to life.

(wasalam)

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Greetings Omer,

 

A human can not become a God.

God chose to come to us in the flesh... as a human.

God can do whatever He chooses to do... He is God.

He can say, "Be", and it is. :)

 

Salaam,

CLynn

 

But won't God lose his 'super power' when he becomes human?

 

Once God is human, she wont be able to go back to being the God. As you are aware, human can't do magic.

Edited by Gypsy

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Greetings Omer,

 

That's why you're not God. :)

You don't have the mind of God.

 

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. :)

 

I do wonder if you could answer my question though:

"Would you find that you had a devoted love for someone who was willing to give up their life for you?"

 

Salaam and blessings,

CLynn

 

offcourse he is not god and does not have the mind of god. god is the creator, he is too high to even be like his creation, god that is all high, was not, will not be like his creation. the beauty of Allah swt, is that he is so great that we will never even see him.

 

thanks. :)

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Salam Clynn, yes I agree the thoughts of the Lower being cannot be the same as the higher being. But the problem we are trying to understand here, how the the higher being can be Divided into three. Logically it contradicts the fact that God is one before everything came to life.

(wasalam)

 

Greetings TheIslamHistory,

 

I understand.  There is what I wrote earlier in this thread...

and then the second part is faith...

you just have to trust what the scriptures say...

what Yahshua said of Himself [to His disciples and then the disciples told to others]...

revealed by what was written in the earlier scriptures.

The new testament is hidden in the old,

and the old testament is revealed in the new. :)

 

Salaam,

CLynn

But won't God lose his 'super power' when he becomes human?

 

Once God is human, she wont be able to go back to being the God. As you are aware, human can't do magic.

 

Greetings Gypsy,

 

Why can't God be in two places at once...

in two forms if He wants?

God is supernatural... He can do whatever He wants to do... be whatever He wants to be... divide Himself in as many parts as He wants... He will still be God.  The key is remembering that God is a supernatural being... something we can not necessarily relate to or comprehend the fullness of.  It says in the scriptures;

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then[when we die] face to face:

        now I know in part; but then shall I know in full, even as I am also known.

 

There is a supernatural phenomenon that has occurred among Christian saints called bi-location.  You might be interested in reading about it. :)

 

Salaam,

CLynn

Edited by CLynn

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Greetings TheIslamHistory,

 

I understand.  There is what I wrote earlier in this thread...

and then the second part is faith...

you just have to trust what the scriptures say...

what Yahshua said of Himself [to His disciples and then the disciples told to others]...

revealed by what was written in the earlier scriptures.

The new testament is hidden in the old,

and the old testament is revealed in the new. :)

 

Salaam,

CLynn

 

Greetings Gypsy,

 

Why can't God be in two places at once...

in two forms if He wants?

God is supernatural... He can do whatever He wants to do... be whatever He wants to be... divide Himself in as many parts as He wants... He will still be God.  The key is remembering that God is a supernatural being... something we can not necessarily relate to or comprehend the fullness of.  It says in the scriptures;

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then[when we die] face to face:

        now I know in part; but then shall I know in full, even as I am also known.

 

There is a supernatural phenomenon that has occurred among Christian saints called bi-location.  You might be interested in reading about it. :)

 

Salaam,

CLynn

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Clynn, You did not Answer my Question, but how can you have faith in something which has not Logical proof? and can you prove to us that the bible is the Word of God? how can you prove to us that the people who Wrote it Received it from God? Did God talk to them? Clynn You cannot have faith in something that goes against Logic. I Really advise you to think this over.

(wasalam) 

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Greetings TheIslamHistory,

 

I understand.  There is what I wrote earlier in this thread...

and then the second part is faith...

you just have to trust what the scriptures say...

what Yahshua said of Himself [to His disciples and then the disciples told to others]...

revealed by what was written in the earlier scriptures.

The new testament is hidden in the old,

and the old testament is revealed in the new. :)

 

Salaam,

CLynn

 

Greetings Gypsy,

 

Why can't God be in two places at once...

in two forms if He wants?

God is supernatural... He can do whatever He wants to do... be whatever He wants to be... divide Himself in as many parts as He wants... He will still be God.  The key is remembering that God is a supernatural being... something we can not necessarily relate to or comprehend the fullness of.  It says in the scriptures;

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then[when we die] face to face:

        now I know in part; but then shall I know in full, even as I am also known.

 

There is a supernatural phenomenon that has occurred among Christian saints called bi-location.  You might be interested in reading about it. :)

 

Salaam,

CLynn

 

 

religion is simply not "having faith" god gave us brains and intellect for a reason because that is the only way we find truth.

 

yes god can be at 2 times at once, and he can do whatever he wants us to do, but a all high god will never show himself in any form or image to the human eye because he is too great. hence we see him with our brains not with our eyes. its like worshipping a idol, he is there, im seeing him with my two eyes, I can touch, feel, see, hear him - then what is the difference between him and i or further more, he lowered himself to our eye sight, when he has prophets and imams to spread his message.

 

jesus (as) if was killed, so now your saying god can be killed? likewise I can break an idol with my own two hands. you have to understand a god is a god. he is great, high, all knowing- I don't believe that a god will not only come in a form of a creation, not only can be seen, heard and felt, not only all that but now he is being killed by his creation? at least let him disappear to how he was or something why did he let his creation kill him?

 

sorry if im aggressive or rude its just confusing.

 

thanks.

Edited by PenOfTruth

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Hi Clynn, You did not Answer my Question, but how can you have faith in something which has not Logical proof? and can you prove to us that the bible is the Word of God? how can you prove to us that the people who Wrote it Received it from God? Did God talk to them? Clynn You cannot have faith in something that goes against Logic. I Really advise you to think this over.

(wasalam)

 

Greetings TheIslamHistory,

 

Did you take the time to read what I had written earlier in this thread?

 

To answer your question about logic...

Is there any 'logical proof' that an angel Gabriel appeared to Muhammad in a cave... or did people just have faith?

Yahshua was a living human being who walked the earth and taught with the Wisdom of God, not the wisdom of man.  That is proof for me that He was the living 'Word of God'.  There is no one who spoke with the wisdom of Yahshua, and there were the signs and miracles, not to mention everything He said would happen pertaining to Himself... the things that were written in the old testament but not understood until it had all been fulfilled... did happen and later became clear to the disciples (was revealed in the death and resurrection). 

 

Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.

 

19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am He.

31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in Him.

32 If God be glorified in Him, God shall also glorify Him in Himself, and shall straightway glorify Him.

33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come

 

 

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come[to pass], ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.

But now I go my way to him that sent me

 

 

16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me[again], because I [first] go to the Father.

 

19 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

 

22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

 

25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

 

 

28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

 

30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

31 Jesus answered them, "Do ye now believe?

32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me."

 

 

For me there is no denying the Truth of Yahshua, no matter how many times I have challenged it.

Yes God spoke with them... God was with them, Yahshua was with them... with the disciples.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. (i.e., that is to say... believe in the works that they are of the Father and they testify to Me)

There is nothing here for me, that goes against logic.

Salaam and blessings to you,

CLynn

jesus (as) if was killed, so now your saying god can be killed? likewise I can break an idol with my own two hands. you have to understand a god is a god. he is great, high, all knowing- I don't believe that a god will not only come in a form of a creation, not only can be seen, heard and felt, not only all that but now he is being killed by his creation? at least let him disappear to how he was or something why did he let his creation kill him?

 

sorry if im aggressive or rude its just confusing.

 

thanks.

 

Greetings PenOfTruth,

 

You have to read earlier in the thread... post #8 I explained the best I could.

and No, I don't mind.  It is confusing.  It is a faith I've lived with all my life, and it is still confusing... that is because it is of God, and God does not fit the box of the logic of man... You have to seek Him with all your heart for Him to reveal it to you.  I believe God calls each in his own way.  We have been taught differently, and yet similar, about the nature of God.

 

Do we really think we can possibly with the mind of a human, understand God fully, until we meet Him?

 

Salaam and blessings,

CLynn

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Greetings TheIslamHistory,

 

Did you take the time to read what I had written earlier in this thread?

 

To answer your question about logic...

Is there any 'logical proof' that an angel Gabriel appeared to Muhammad in a cave... or did people just have faith?

Yahshua was a living human being who walked the earth and taught with the Wisdom of God, not the wisdom of man.  That is proof for me that He was the living 'Word of God'.  There is no one who spoke with the wisdom of Yahshua, and there were the signs and miracles, not to mention everything He said would happen pertaining to Himself... the things that were written in the old testament but not understood until it had all been fulfilled... did happen and later became clear to the disciples (was revealed in the death and resurrection). 

 

Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.

 

19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am He.

31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in Him.

32 If God be glorified in Him, God shall also glorify Him in Himself, and shall straightway glorify Him.

33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come

 

 

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come[to pass], ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.

But now I go my way to him that sent me

 

 

16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me[again], because I [first] go to the Father.

 

19 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

 

22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

 

25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

 

 

28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

 

30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

31 Jesus answered them, "Do ye now believe?

32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me."

 

 

For me there is no denying the Truth of Yahshua, no matter how many times I have challenged it.

Yes God spoke with them... God was with them, Yahshua was with them... with the disciples.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. (i.e., that is to say... believe in the works that they are of the Father and they testify to Me)

There is nothing here for me, that goes against logic.

Salaam and blessings to you,

CLynn

 

Greetings PenOfTruth,

 

You have to read earlier in the thread... post #8 I explained the best I could.

and No, I don't mind.  It is confusing.  It is a faith I've lived with all my life, and it is still confusing... that is because it is of God, and God does not fit the box of the logic of man... You have to seek Him with all your heart for Him to reveal it to you.  I believe God calls each in his own way.  We have been taught differently, and yet similar, about the nature of God.

 

Do we really think we can possibly with the mind of a human, understand God fully, until we meet Him?

 

Salaam and blessings,

CLynn

 

 

yes we needed faith and we needed a truthful messenger. but your saying faith of life. I don't need to do this, I have faith. I don't have to think about this I have faith, etc.

 

in your post #8 what you said was: Why did He allow himself to be crucified?  Because it was what He willed.  It was clear after His death, the reason for His death, to all those who had eyes to see... to the disciples who had known and walked with Him and had not understood either until the time He was resurrected... then their understanding was opened.

 

- he willed to get crucified? why? a sI said in my post, that a human thing, not a creator, the creator of the heavens and the earth will not be "willing" to die. I said : jesus (as) if was killed, so now your saying god can be killed? likewise I can break an idol with my own two hands. you have to understand a god is a god. he is great, high, all knowing- I don't believe that a god will not only come in a form of a creation, not only can be seen, heard and felt, not only all that but now he is being killed by his creation? at least let him disappear to how he was or something why did he let his creation kill him?

 

just compare the prophet jesus (as) as a god with Allah swt.

 

Allah cant be seen, he is to great, and he will never put himself in a form or an image and even our created eyes cannot see him. how great is he? he sent messengers to spread his message, he did not have to come down himself to prove anything, the fact that he will never be seen of how great he is; is an enough fact for me to believe in him. he is not a human, he will never be a human. why would the all high come as a creation form? he is to high. he is god, the creator of every single thing. no one ever saw him, no one ever will.

 

whereas jesus (as) was a creation on the earth, people saw him, walked with him, looked at him, heard him- these are the attributes of a creation and a all high creator will never lower himself to these attributes.

 

thanks.

Edited by PenOfTruth

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LOL @ CLynn,

 

Why is the sky blue? Why is blue blue?

 

Whoa, what you find out when you aren't looking.

Note; Quran just dropped from 100% - 95% Allah speech. <---- Never saw that comin.

This must be that new Muslim religion thing.

 

 

 

If you open the Qur'an and read it, you will see that there are sayings from Prophets,,,,, Thats what I meant with 5% and 95%  :)

Greetings Omer,

 

I do wonder if you could answer my question though:

"Would you find that you had a devoted love for someone who was willing to give up their life for you?"

 

 

Greetings CLynn

 

I would have devoted love for someone who is willing to give up his life for me. But why would Jesus die for me? If he is god, this would be enaugh to love him.

Salam

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Greetings CLynn

 

I would have devoted love for someone who is willing to give up his life for me. But why would Jesus die for me? If he is god, this would be enaugh to love him.

Salam

 

Greetings Omer,

 

If you were God, would you leave your son in a place of impurity, or would you bring Him home?

Yahshua was sent to show us that death is overcome through belief and devotion to God.  Yahshua shows us the real glory... that death is overcome when we belong to God.  He is the living proof... the flesh and blood which walked with the disciples... the same disciples that saw Him ascend to heaven after death.  This is what God has shown us... it is what Yahshua was sent to show us... (and He went through a great deal of suffering to show it to us... this is what wins the heart of Christians and turns their lives to salvation through Christ)

 

Salaam and blessings,

CLynn

Edited by CLynn

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Greetings Omer,

 

If you were God, would you leave your son in a place of impurity, or would you bring Him home?

 

 

again your putting the attributes of man to god, he doesn't have sons- that's a part of him creating us to get married and so on.  a god does not have one attribute of a human being, because he is the creator of everything, he wont lower himself of an attribute of something he created. he doesn't have sons, nor daughters, nor wives nor anything we have, he does not need what we need, he does not want what we want. he is too great for us to see, you think he is not to great to have attributes of man?

 

but answer to you, cant he bring him home through a miracle? why did he have to let 'god die'? but if Jesus (as)  is god than who wants to bring him home? himself? or the spirit?

 

the quran says: they have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the third of three" And there is no god expect god.

 

thanks :)

Edited by PenOfTruth

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but answer to you, cant he bring him home through a miracle? why did he have to let 'god die'? but if Jesus (as)  is god than who wants to bring him home? himself? or the spirit?

 

thanks :)

 

Greetings PenOfTruth,

 

I know that islam does not accept Yahshua as the Son of God... that according to what you have been taught God would not lower Himself to do this.  I do not question what God has done, I accept what was witnessed and told by the disciples.  Muhammad brought a different story.  If I understand correctly Muhammad did not accept the Divinity of Yahshua... (Placid might have a different light to shed on this matter)

 

All of your questions have been answered.  It is all made clear in the scriptures that I shared.  I think again, that you have not read all the things that I have written and shared, or you just have not taken time to open your mind and contemplate.  There was purpose in Yahshua coming to live among man, in human form, and in His death... a purpose God wanted fulfilled. 

If you have read and do not understand, or accept, that is fine, I accept that.  Only God can reveal Truth and He leads each in the way that He sees best.  Just I do hope you take the time to read and think about all that I have said in this thread.  I know that it is different from what you have been taught.

 

Salaam and blessings to you,

CLynn

 

note:  I remembered after responding that you and I had already discussed the confusing nature of what I have shared.  So please don't think I am meaning to be rude.  I don't mean to be.  I have had a lot of years to contemplate the very same questions you are trying to understand. :)

Edited by CLynn

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Greetings PenOfTruth,

 

I know that islam does not accept Yahshua as the Son of God... that according to what you have been taught God would not lower Himself to do this.  I do not question what God has done, I accept what was witnessed and told by the disciples.  Muhammad brought a different story.  If I understand correctly Muhammad did not accept the Divinity of Yahshua... (Placid might have a different light to shed on this matter)

 

All of your questions have been answered.  It is all made clear in the scriptures that I shared.  I think again, that you have not read all the things that I have written and shared, or you just have not taken time to open your mind and contemplate.  There was purpose in Yahshua coming to live among man, in human form, and in His death... a purpose God wanted fulfilled. 

If you have read and do not understand, or accept, that is fine, I accept that.  Only God can reveal Truth and He leads each in the way that He sees best.  Just I do hope you take the time to read and think about all that I have said in this thread.  I know that it is different from what you have been taught.

 

Salaam and blessings to you,

CLynn

 

note:  I remembered after responding that you and I had already discussed the confusing nature of what I have shared.  So please don't think I am meaning to be rude.  I don't mean to be.  I have had a lot of years to contemplate the very same questions you are trying to understand. :)

 

I don't mean to be rude either. the thing is you cant tell the actual expression behind the writer on this thingy haha.

 

and no im a really open minded person, but all you have said in this thread I have given answers to but you did not reply back, if you have anything you want me to understand just say it to me now because all you wrote on this thread I've given replies to.

 

you said: There was purpose in Yahshua coming to live among man, in human form, and in His death... a purpose God wanted fulfilled. 

- yeah what is the purpose? why would a god want to have these attributes of man? there has to be an answer. truth is logic.

 

you said: If you have read and do not understand, or accept, that is fine, I accept that.

- yeah I have read. and according to what you have said, nothing makes sense.

 

you said: Just I do hope you take the time to read and think about all that I have said in this thread.  I know that it is different from what you have been taught.

-all I have been taught is looking for truth. and I already read every single thing and I gave answers, your concept of 'god' does  not make sense.  

 

 

 

god is god. he will wont ever have one single attribute of man, because he is the creator of man, he wont lower himself to the creation. he is all high and all knowing. he is not human but he is the creator of all humans, he wont come as a form of human, because is the creator of all humans, a god is way to great to be seen.

 

I remember once someone came to the imam (as) and asked him, why cant we see your god? he told him to look at the sun, as soon as he looked he looked away. the imam (as) asked him why, he said because my eyes cant bare the rays of the sun. so the imam (as) sayd : if you cant bare the to look at the sun, how can you bare to look at god.

 

and truly Allah swt, from his greatness, the creator of the heavens and the earth, the creator of every star, planet and being- will never be seen of his glory and greatness. the true definition of god that is deserved to be worshiped.

 

the imam (as) once told someone if a thrown can take Allah swt than we might as well worship the thrown.

 

because he is to great for anything we can imagine.

 

I do not see these attributes on jesus (as), I believe he is a prophet, because he has the attributes of a prophet, he does miracles and so on. but he at the same time has attributes of a man, he was seen, heard, talked to- all these god created, he is to great to fit in these attributes.

 

the quran says: says "he is Allah who is one" , Allah the eternal refuge, he neither begets, nor is born, nor is there to him any equivalent.

 

thanks.

Edited by PenOfTruth

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you said: There was purpose in Yahshua coming to live among man, in human form, and in His death... a purpose God wanted fulfilled. 

 

- yeah what is the purpose? why would a god want to have these attributes of man? there has to be an answer. truth is logic.

 

thanks.

 

Grettings PenOfTruth,

 

How did you miss the rest of what I wrote: (post #25)

 

"Yahshua was sent to show us that death is overcome through belief and devotion to God.  Yahshua shows us the real glory... that death is overcome when we belong to God.  He is the living proof... the flesh and blood which walked with the disciples... the same disciples that saw Him ascend to heaven after death.  This is what God has shown us... it is what Yahshua was sent to show us... (and He went through a great deal of suffering to show it to us... this is what wins the heart of Christians and turns their lives to salvation through Christ)"

 

Salaam,

CLynn

 

and yes,

"you cant tell the actual expression behind the writer on this thingy haha."

That's why I take the time now, to add notes when I think may be misunderstood. :)

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Grettings PenOfTruth,

 

How did you miss the rest of what I wrote: (post #25)

 

"Yahshua was sent to show us that death is overcome through belief and devotion to God.  Yahshua shows us the real glory... that death is overcome when we belong to God.  He is the living proof... the flesh and blood which walked with the disciples... the same disciples that saw Him ascend to heaven after death.  This is what God has shown us... it is what Yahshua was sent to show us... (and He went through a great deal of suffering to show it to us... this is what wins the heart of Christians and turns their lives to salvation through Christ)"

 

Salaam,

CLynn

 

and yes,

"you cant tell the actual expression behind the writer on this thingy haha."

That's why I take the time now, to add notes when I think may be misunderstood. :)

 

 

I hope you take all my post into answer not one part :)

 

 

so jesus (as) died to show death can be overcome through devotion to god? yeah still an attribute of a prophet, not god.

Edited by PenOfTruth

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I hope you take all my post into answer not one part :)

 

so jesus (as) died to show death can be overcome through devotion to god? yeah still an attribute of a prophet, not god.

 

Greetings again,

 

Yes I do read all of what you write. :)

 

Regarding your statement -

Do you know of any prophet that was resurrected?

 

You see Yahshua's disciples met with Him again in living flesh before He ascended to heaven.

 

From post #8

 

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

 

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.

51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God.

 

This is what I believe Muhammad misunderstood... that Yahshua, yes, was taken up to heaven, but only after He had re-united with His disciples in the resurrection.

 

Salaam,

CLynn

Edited by CLynn

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Greetings again,

 

Yes I do read all of what you write. :)

 

Regarding your statement -

Do you know of any prophet that was resurrected?

 

You see Yahshua's disciples met with Him again in living flesh before He ascended to heaven.

 

From post #8

 

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

 

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.

51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God.

 

This is what I believe Muhammad misunderstood... that Yahshua, yes, was taken up to heaven, but only after He had re-united with His disciples in the resurrection.

 

Salaam,

CLynn

 

I don't get what your trying to say..? please explain further on your point. and I hope you stay on topic.

Edited by PenOfTruth

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So Is Jesus God? And if was God Was he the First God? or the Second or Third? When did the Trinity Exist?

 

Made no sense at all to the Title of the topic. Second of all its only a silly Question to those who Can't Answer it.

 

Jesus is Jesus, God is God. Show me somewhere in the Bible Jesus says He was God. First, second, or third is in your own mind, no use asking me.

 

The trinity began with the council of Nicaea. I don't know if you know anything about that, (by your question) but there were a bunch brought together to decide what should be part of the Bible, and what not. Then the rest burned. The texts came written from different sources, some from oral. y'know, kinda like how the Quran was compiled. I'm sure you've studied that..

 

 

god is god. he will wont ever have one single attribute of man,

 

 

This is what I meant. First I LOL'd at CLynn, for taking this thread on, but look where it goes. What comes after the "I don't want to be rude but " pretty much says what you think of CLynn's beliefs. (Sorry Teacup.) Any straightforward answer gets treated the same.

 

Have you looked into the verses I posted? Didn't think so. This is not about study to understand, it's give me a quick answer I can mock.

 

Jus sayin...

 

Still waiting for a hint of sincerity.

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Jesus is Jesus, God is God. Show me somewhere in the Bible Jesus says He was God. First, second, or third is in your own mind, no use asking me.

 

The trinity began with the council of Nicaea. I don't know if you know anything about that, (by your question) but there were a bunch brought together to decide what should be part of the Bible, and what not. Then the rest burned. The texts came written from different sources, some from oral. y'know, kinda like how the Quran was compiled. I'm sure you've studied that..

 

 

 

This is what I meant. First I LOL'd at CLynn, for taking this thread on, but look where it goes. What comes after the "I don't want to be rude but " pretty much says what you think of CLynn's beliefs. (Sorry Teacup.) Any straightforward answer gets treated the same.

 

Have you looked into the verses I posted? Didn't think so. This is not about study to understand, it's give me a quick answer I can mock.

 

Jus sayin...

 

Still waiting for a hint of sincerity.

 

 

no I did not, I will soon I cant now, as I said I will read it from my point of view, not yours- that's why is different having an answer from you.

 

so god is god, and jesus(as) is jesus(as)? so if god is god, what are you saying jesus(as) is?

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no I did not, I will soon I cant now, as I said I will read it from my point of view, not yours- that's why is different having an answer from you.

 

so god is god, and jesus(as) is jesus(as)? so if god is god, what are you saying jesus(as) is?

I will pray you read it in God's point of view. My understanding doesn't matter between you and God.

I am okay with what I am. If you are okay with what you are then we have nothing less than to praise God together.

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