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In the Name of God بسم الله

How Can A Human Becoma A "god"

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So your God is more loving. Is He?   Then no one is going to hell?  Right?  

 

So your God is different from the God of the old covenant?  Right?

 

In other words, you  admit that your God is also different from the God of the Jews? Right? 

 

Not only from the God of Islam but also different from the God of the Jews.

 

In any case, why wasn't your God a  little more loving 3000 or 4000 or 5000 or 6000 years ago?  Why all this love only now?  Couldn't He have been a little more loving before? Clearly, your God is unsteady, unbalanced and unreliable, one whose mercy one cannot rely on? A God who changes his feathers all the time?

 

Where was He all those thousands of years ago?

 

And as requested by another member, please spell 'Islam' with a capital 'I'  -    'Islam',  not 'islam'.

 

Thank you

 

Greetings Ilove...,

 

Please don't take my words out of their context.  It changes their meaning.

 

"The God of Islam does indeed seem very much like God of the old covenant, but he is nothing like God of the new covenant.  In the old testament God says through prophet Isaiah, 'See I will do a new thing, will you perceive it'... this new thing is a new approach to mankind... this new approach is God's Love, rather than God's wrath.  God of the new covenant is loving Father, and you will agree, I am sure, this is not the God of islam.

 

God said though prophet Isaiah, in the old testament, that He would be doing a new thing, and He foretold that we should be looking for it to come.

When I say that the God of Islam is not the same as the God of the new covenant, I mean that no follower of Islam would ever be able to accept God as Father.  Isn't that correct?

 

Salaam and blessings,

CLynn

What is far more important and cannot be ignored is what the religion actually says.  

 

Greetings baqar,

 

Where do you say that a Muslims beliefs are coming from then?

 

note:  please do not pick about capitalizations... as another poster pointed out he is not very good at them either.  I found difficulty because the rules are not the same when speaking with Muslims... I do have a hard time knowing what to capitalize and what not to.  For instance when I first came on Islam forums I was capitalizing everyone's names, as this is what one does in my culture, but I was informed not to do this because it accords too high a place to the person.  So, yes, I have difficulty knowing what to capitalize and what not to.  (Just like you do not capitalize your name baqar.  I always have to stop and correct this.  I do not always catch every instance.)  What pleases one person annoys another... so please let's just not make this an issue between us.  I always try my best to show respect in the proper manner.

 

asalaam,

CLynn

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LOL @ CLynn,   Why is the sky blue? Why is blue blue?   Whoa, what you find out when you aren't looking. Note; Quran just dropped from 100% - 95% Allah speech. <---- Never saw that comin. This must

Marry a minimum of 3 wives, go to Church every Sunday, perform some Occult rituals in a temple, give 10% of all yer money to the Church, don't drink caffeine or smoke, volunteer all of your free time

Question is in the title, only chrisitans answer please.

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"For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men, hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them to the utmost." - 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16

 

"For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer." - Romans 13:4 

 

Seems like God in the New Testament still endorses wrath.

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Hello CLyyn, 

 

Some are claiming I am you.  I hope that is not true, I hope you are much prettier than I.   :)

 

A little off topic, but, you mention Paul Harvey.  I am sure you had heard this poem before.  It really captures the spirit of "middle America" in my opinion.  

 

All the Best,

David

 

Greetings David,

 

Oh wow, really.  I thought we had had some disagreements.  lol

Anyway, yes, people used to ask Christianlady and myself if we were the same person, too.  I guess when great minds think alike. ;)

 

Did I mention Paul Harvey?  I don't even know who Paul Harvey is... I just Googled to find out.  lol

 

I remember someone else sharing that commercial.  Finally a decent superbowl commercial.

 

Wishing the best to you also,

CLynn

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Just like you do not capitalize your name baqar. 

 

Good point.

 

But not writing my own name politely is quite different from not writing some else's

 

What we told you was for your own good.  If you are not careful, there will be another ruckus like the few that have happened only recently.

 

This matter with the capitalization  has been pointed out to you.   

 

Where do you say that a Muslim's beliefs are coming from then?

 

I cannot answer for all sects within Muslims.

 

But Shia beliefs come from the Quran as explained by our Holy Prophet and Imams and more importantly the examples in their lives - from their words and deeds.

 

What  better teachings can anyone give us than  how Imam Hussain and his family  responded to torture and oppression at Karbala and how the survivors dealt with their incarceration and infinite misfortunes.

 

How they responded to oppression and repression, how they adhered to patience, forgiveness steadfastness and unwavering faith and trust in God against all odds.  From their extraordinary deeds ad words of wisdom.  

 

That is Shia Islam. 

 

That is my Islam. 

 

That is where my Islam comes from. 

 

When I say that the God of Islam is not the same as the God of the new covenant, I mean that no follower of Islam would ever be able to accept God as Father.  Isn't that correct?

 

On the contrary, it is God the Father whom we accept, to the exclusion of the other two members of the Trinity.

 

We also believe in the immense excellence of both Jesus and his mother, which in fact you don't.  

 

Catholics and Muslims have high respect for the mother of Jesus but other Christians don't.

 

But we don't believe that Jesus is part of a Trinity or a divinity.

 

Therein lies the difference

 

And even if your comparison (or rather contrast) between the God of the Old and New Covenants  is true, it applies to all other religions of the world, including Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism Zoroastrianism and all the others - not only Islam.  

 

It seems to say that your God is superior to ours.

 

As some Christian members in this forum have tried to do, we should to find what is common between us.

 

And God, the first member of the Trinity certainly is common.

 

Apart from Him, Jesus and his mother, as God's chosen are also common. And there are lots of other  commonalities.

 

If you wish to deny that, well .what can we say?

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"For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men, hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them to the utmost." - 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16

 

"For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer." - Romans 13:4 

 

Seems like God in the New Testament still endorses wrath.

 

Greetings Jahangiram,

 

God's wrath has not gone away, but He does a new thing seeking to win the hearts and gain obedience, not by His anger, but by His Love.  He decides to show, not His anger, but how much He loves.

13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

19 We love Him, because he first loved us.

We love and obey, not because of fear, but out of love.

Watch the video from 14:30.

 

asalaam,

CLynn

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We love and obey, not because of fear, but out of love.

 

We obey him not out of fear or love but because we find Him worthy of obedience. 

Obedience due to fear is cowardice.

 

Obedience due to love is passion.

 

Neither is a truly good reason to obey.

 

The only truly good reason to obey God is that we find Him worthy of obedience   

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We obey him not out of fear or love but because we find Him worthy of obedience. 

Obedience due to fear is cowardice.

 

Obedience due to love is passion.

 

Neither is a truly good reason to obey.

 

The only truly good reason to obey God is that we find Him worthy of obedience   

 

Greetings baqar,

I like your answer, but is it enough... is it enough to compel one to obedience?

What is it that makes God worthy?

 

asalaam,

CLynn

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What is it that makes God worthy?

 

Everything, Clynn, everything  !

 

God would be no God if He was worthy due to any given attribute or attributes.

 

Everything about God is perfect and every single attribute of His makes Him worthy of our worship, admiration, obedience and love.

 

I am afraid if you believe that He is worthy because of of any given attribute, you have not understood God at all.

 

is it enough to compel one to obedience?

 

You must be joking,

 

How many truly obedient people do you have in the world today? 

 

The world is awash in sin and defiance.   

 

People love to gloat over their sins.

 

It has come to the point that if you speak one single word against homosexual activity, everyone will pounce upon you.

 

You will be branded a homofobe and deemed unfit for civilized society.

 

Clynn is truly living in an Eutopia made of her dreams

 

I sincerely do hope her dreams come true.

 

But I doubt it. 

 

In fact, between you and me, we are on a steep decline downwards.

 

The way we are going, I am sure that tomorrow will be worse than today.

 

And the day after even more so.  

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Everything, Clynn, everything  !

 

God would be no God if He was worthy due to any given attribute or attributes.

 

Everything about God is perfect and every single attribute of His makes Him worthy of our worship, admiration, obedience and love.

 

I am afraid if you believe that He is worthy because of of any given attribute, you have not understood God at all.

 

 

You must be joking,

 

How many truly obedient people do you have in the world today? 

 

The world is awash in sin and defiance.   

 

People love to gloat over their sins.

 

It has come to the point that if you speak one single word against homosexual activity, everyone will pounce upon you.

 

You will be branded a homofobe and deemed unfit for civilized society.

 

Clynn is truly living in an Eutopia made of her dreams

 

I sincerely do hope her dreams come true.

 

But I doubt it. 

 

In fact, between you and me, we are on a steep decline downwards.

 

The way we are going, I am sure that tomorrow will be worse than today.

 

And the day after even more so.  

 

Greetings baqar,

 

I am not living in a dream or a utopia.  I agree with you.

The only thing that will save the world is Love... the love of the Creator, and the love of one another... when people learn to love one another.

What will compel people to love one another... to be obedient to the Creator and His Word?

To me, it is when they learn Love.

 

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

asalaam,

CLynn

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Greetings Jahangiram,

 

God's wrath has not gone away, but He does a new thing seeking to win the hearts and gain obedience, not by His anger, but by His Love.  He decides to show, not His anger, but how much He loves.

13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

19 We love Him, because he first loved us.

We love and obey, not because of fear, but out of love.

Watch the video from 14:30.

 

asalaam,

CLynn

 

What you call unconditional love is what the Quran refers to as God's universal mercy across all creation, except that the Quran doesn't regard this mercy as love; in the Quran love is a special relationship between God and man conditional on the latter's commitment to the Lord. In the end its quite clear those who do not reach the Father through the Son are doomed to eternal torment. Which is why atheists say Christianity (and Abrahamic religions in general) are religions of fear that preach conformity out of fear of punishment.

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What you call unconditional love is what the Quran refers to as God's universal mercy across all creation, except that the Quran doesn't regard this mercy as love; in the Quran love is a special relationship between God and man conditional on the latter's commitment to the Lord. In the end its quite clear those who do not reach the Father through the Son are doomed to eternal torment. Which is why atheists say Christianity (and Abrahamic religions in general) are religions of fear that preach conformity out of fear of punishment.

Yup yup. "Fellowship Baptist Church" Greenfield park, Quebec, (burb of Montreal) I'm afraid I know all about it. Part of why I split. They teach you to follow a peaceful loving son (= god), and if you don't it's fire and brimstone, weeping and gnashing of teeth, never a dull moment. Sad when the atheists are right.

Then again, I think the Quran mentions things like "grievous end" more often than the Bible, but of course death is the headliner, thus the sermons.

 

I didn't see why we should need such prodding. Honestly, does God want a bunch of cowards?

 

The unconditional love CLynn is referring to is written out in 1 Corinthians ch 13. This is the love God bestows upon us to bestow upon others. It is the love of the personal relationship between God and man the Quran speaks of and of course it is pivotal on our ability to accept, commit and obey. I don't believe God has predestined us yes or no. I believe He has given us countless opportunities to accept, commit, and obey. Those of us who do there is a reward. Even Christians...(shall not grieve).

 

1 Corinthians 13. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

 

I read this chapter often, pray about it often, and as far as this "love" goes, faith and hope are easy. I was amazed at how the principals of jihad apply. I regret I have lost track of those principles,(the link) if anyone has them I'd appreciate seeing them again.

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The unconditional love CLynn is referring to is written out in 1 Corinthians ch 13. This is the love God bestows upon us to bestow upon others. It is the love of the personal relationship between God and man the Quran speaks of and of course it is pivotal on our ability to accept, commit and obey. I don't believe God has predestined us yes or no. I believe He has given us countless opportunities to accept, commit, and obey. Those of us who do there is a reward. Even Christians...(shall not grieve).

 

Hi SoP

 

I understand that and I agree with that teaching as a divine word. But I am afraid Clynn presents it in a manner that seems to gives the impression that 

 

·         God loves everyone equally, and that

·         this teaching is exclusive to Christianity.

 

Neither is true.

Allow me to explain.

 

I think one of the reasons why God created mothers is so that we understand His love.

What do I mean?

Well, if you think about it, the  mother's love has two components - a permanent unchanging part and another that varies mainly with the child's behavior.

A mother loves all her children equally as long as they are babies or perhaps toddlers. 

But as soon as the child shows that he (or she) has a mind of its own, which could defy her,  the other component kicks in.

This component depends on a lot of factors, but in particular, the child's behavior. 

The net result is that the mother's total love, which is a sum of the two components, could vary from child to child.

 

The same goes for God.

There are two components to His love.

In Islamic parlance, one makes him RAHMAN and the other RAHEEM.

One part is equal for everyone.

The other, as in case of the mother, varies.

The net result of the two components is that He does not love everyone equally.

It would clearly be very foolish to expect God to love Adolph Hitler and Mahatma Gandhi equally. 

Don't you think?

 

The other thing to understand about God's love is that God is also just, All-Just.

Despite all His love, He just will simply not be able to admit everyone to heaven.

In other words, some people are bound to suffer immensely.

 

On the second point, it should be noted that neither God's love nor the directive to bestow it on others,  is exclusive to Christianity.

If you ask Buddhists, they will tell you the same thing.

If you ask Hindus, they will tell you the same thing.

And perhaps everyone else.

 

In Islam too, God is the Lord of All-Encompassing Mercy [6:147]

His Mercy encompasses all things [7:156].

And there are literally hundreds of verses announcing God's mercy.

 

So contrary to the impression that Clynn seems to give (perhaps not intentionally) that God's love is exclusive to Christianity, that is certainly not so.

As far as directives to the faithful are concerned, the Quran requires patience beyond anything anyone can imagine. And likewise forgiveness.

 

Just two among the dozens of verses on the subject:

 

[3:134] Those who spend in prosperity as well as adversity, those who restrain their anger and forgive men. God loves the doers of good.

 

[42:37] Those who avoid the great sins and abominations and when they are angry, they forgive.

 

Imam Ali has famously said that God's mercy outstrips His wrath.

 

God's love needs to be understood in its correct context.

 

It is certainly not exclusive to Christianity or to any other religion. 

 

I therefore find that endless mantras of God's love are deceptive and could and do lead to complacency and eventual defiance and then rejection.

 

In my view, the right approach would be to speak of God's mercy and His potential Wrath, both at the same time.

 

Unending exclamations of love, love, love are dishonest and misleading.

The truth is that God could potentially belie all our expectations of that love, love, love.

 

 

And I have no doubt that in case of some people, He will.    

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The way Islam expects the faithful to treat other human beings - Muslims, non-Muslims, friends, enemies - whoever, is beyond belief. All our Imams treated everyone - irrespective of their faith, nationality, or whatever, in a manner that has very few equals in history.

 

They were all killed because they had countless enemies but the way they treated their enemies is still on record.

 

Among all our Imams, Imam Ali was blessed with the most opportunity to show his mettle. His words and deeds are famous even among non-Muslim scholars.

 

The British scholar Thomas Carlyle says, as follows

 

'As for this young Ali, one cannot but like him. A noble-minded creature now and always afterwards, full of affection, of fiery daring, something chivalrous in him, brave as a lion, yet with a grace and truth worthy of Christian knighthood'.

 

Almost every European scholar has been simply enraptured by Imam Ali's extraordinary character.  

 

For the sake of those who wish to understand  Islam's teachings, I have already published one of Imam Ali's letters and some of his  directives, in the following thread.

 

(See Post #82 & 83 in the thread  WHAT I HAVE LEARNT FROM THE QURAN)

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234967884-what-i-have-learned-from-the-quran/page-4

 

Also Islam's teachings on the treatment of enemies can be found in the example of another Imam, a grandson of Imam Ali.

 

(See Post #1 in the thread IMAM ZAINUL ABEDIN'S EXTRAORDINARY FORGIVENESS)

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235020586-imam-zainul-abedins-extraordinary-forgiveness/

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Hi Clynn,

I want to recap what I had written before in Posts 165 and 173 and finish this subject.

--- I am sorry if I have disappointed you by being more definite with the Muslims against the idea that Jesus was God.

--- However, Jesus was God’s Representative, or Messenger on earth, but the real Manifestation of God was the Word, that ‘indwelt’ Jesus, was it not? --- And the Word (Logos), who was sent by God to do God’s will, was Manifested through Jesus, was He not?

I would like to take you on a little ‘field trip’ and see what we can discover. --- However, you don’t have to agree with me. --- I have said, I have no argument with Trinitarians who learned their traditions and are sincere Christians. --- Our Salvation is based on Faith in God, --- obedience to Jesus and His teaching, --- and how we apply God’s word in our lives, is it not?

To start with on our ‘field trip’, I want to say that I don’t understand God and His Perfect Ways, --- but by studying, we come across truths that relate to other truths. --- And I bear this in mind from Isaiah 28:

10 “For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.”

There are many ‘interwoven prophecies’ with two or three time frames, in the same verses. --- It is the discernment of the Holy Spirit that gives enlightenment, so we may read something one place and the Lord may lead us someplace else and add to the first.

God is more than fair. --- It seems He always tests His created being so that they can prove their loyalty and obedience to Him, before He gives more responsibility. --- (That is kind of like the way He tests us in our learning to ‘live and mature,’ and take more responsibility, is it not? --- And sometimes we fail.)

In Isaiah there is the ‘interwoven prophecy’ directed to the King of Babylon, but speaking to the leader of the Cherubim angels, who through pride had said, “I will exalt my throne above the stars of heaven, I will be like the Most High,” --- but he was cast down to hell.

--- Another explanation of this one is given in another ‘interwoven prophecy’ in Ezekiel 28, which identifies this leader of the Cherubim angel as “The Anointed Cherub,” --- like a President, or the top angel, --- and God had placed him there, --- but he developed ‘pride’ and ‘self-exaltation’ in his position. --- God said, “You were perfect in all your ways until iniquity was found in you.” --- So this reveals that the first sin of ‘pride’ actually ‘developed’ in this one who was called the Shining One, the Light Bringer, or the Lucifer. --- (The Lucifer was not an archangel as some suppose, but the leader of the Cherubim angels until ‘iniquity was found in him,’ and he was cast out of this high position and a worthy one would take his place.) --- It was a test, and from those who proved true and faithful to God, a new ‘Leader’ would be chosen.

Also, Adam and Eve were tested, and they failed. --- And Jesus Christ came as the Redeemer (to redeem, or ‘buy back’ what had been lost), and He did not fail, --- so, He became our Advocate in heaven and it says in Hebrews 7:

25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens

To consider the testing that God allows, --- let’s go to the Book and person of Job.

Job was extremely tested by the loss of everything, but his wife, himself, and their home --- and when some friends came to ‘counsel’ him, they did not understand that Satan was allowed to test Job for a certain time. --- They were quick to say, “Job, you must have done something wrong that God is punishing you for.”

Eventually Job went above them and appealed to God to find out why this had all befallen him. --- He was kind of questioning God’s judgment and fairness.

--- In the process of responding to Job, God asked some interesting questions. --- And here were some of them in Job 38:

2 Who is this who darkens counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding.

5 Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it?

6 To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone,

7 (Where were you) when the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

What I want to zero in on is the last statement, “And all the sons of God shouted for joy?”

There is also a line in Job that says: “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord.”

And this sets up an interesting scenario. --- The sons of God came to ‘present’ themselves before the Lord. --- So was this another ‘competition’ to choose another leader among the sons of God? --- Would it be possible that God was choosing one of them to be ‘The heavenly Son of God’ as a result of their testing?

It says an interesting thing in Psalm 2:

6 Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion.”

7 “I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me,

‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.

--- Again in Psalm 45:

6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;

A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness;

Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You

With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.

--- This introduces another statement in the choosing of one who has been anointed ‘more than his companions.’

The Psalms were written by inspiration about 1000 BC, and contain much history and prophecy, as well as poetry,--- and here is where the ‘one chosen’ is said to be above ‘his companions,’ because “You love righteousness and hate wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness ‘more than Your companions.’ --- (Which must refer to others in the same ‘competition.’)

And here, this Son is called God. “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.”

--- (We hesitate to call anyone god except Almighty God. --- However, I respect John’s deeper Spiritual insight), --- And this is written in John 1:

1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.”

So, if the Word was chosen as the heavenly Son of God, and was from the beginning with God, and, ‘All things were made through Him,’ and, ‘He is called God,’ --- we have an interesting concept, and where do we see it all together?

The same Apostle John wrote in 1 John 5:

7 “For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.”

(By the way, the definition given on the video is about as close as one gets to understanding the trinity, as it has been taught.)

Placid

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Now we want to take time to put it all together, and you will see what I am saying --- or you may reject it using other verses that, to you, may say something else.

In the OT the Word made different appearances, --- as Melchizedek in Genesis 14, to Abraham in Genesis 18, with the Children of Israel in the wilderness, and in Joshua 5 as the Commander of the army of the Lord, from whom came the title of the Lord of Hosts

--- The Trinitarians say that these were appearances of the “Pre-incarnate Christ,” --- in a sense they were, because the Word that came and appeared in the forms of man in those cases, eventually came to indwell Jesus.

--- And the title Lord of Hosts was another name for the Word, used in the OT, and it says this in Isaiah 48:

12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called:

I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last.

13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,

And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;

16 “Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;

From the time that it was, I was there.

And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.”

17 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel:

So The Word is saying, “The Lord God, and His (Holy) Spirit, have sent Me (the Word) to be your Redeemer, the Holy one of Israel,”

And it says in Hebrews 10:

5 Therefore, when He (the Word) came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me.

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You had no pleasure.

7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come— In the volume of the book it is written of Me—

To do Your will, O God.’”

--- Since the Word and the Holy Spirit could not be seen by mankind, they needed a body in which to dwell, so Jesus was the body. --- And the Word went to, and through, death with Jesus, but the Word did not die, --- and Jesus was resurrected in a Spiritual body to eternal life, as we will be some day.

Now we can identify the Word as the heavenly Son of God in Hebrews 1:

God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,

2 has in these last days spoken to us by His (heavenly) Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds

--- This identifies the Word (Logos) though whom all things were made.

3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,--- (It was the Word, Logos, that had the power to create and sustain all things, and to come from heaven and indwell Jesus.)

--- While the thought has been of this being Jesus, it says in John 1:

18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,[f] who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. --- The footnote ‘f’ gives the alternate reading of ‘only begotten God.’ --- Some Versions say “Only begotten God” with a footnote of the alternate reading, “only begotten Son.

--- The Amplified Bible which is the more literal explanation of the Greek says:

18 No man has ever seen God at any time; the only [e]unique Son, or [f]the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].

--- This speaks of the only time God sent the Word to indwell a flesh and blood body. --- And the Word was the Manifestation of God the Father, through the earthly Son, Jesus. --- (The brightness of His [God's] glory and the express image of His Person.)

4 (The Word) having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

--- It said of Jesus also in Hebrews 2:

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

--- Jesus was the human vessel that the Word went to, and through, death with, so the Word ‘tasted the suffering and death of Jesus,’ --- but the Word didn’t die.

--- While angels can appear, --- if the Word had come as an angel, the angel could not have died. It had to be a flesh and blood body for the Word to live in, and survive the death of, --- yet the blood had to be shed and leave the Perfect Sacrifice dead. --- (The OT says, “Without the shedding of blood there is no remission,” and this is another whole story why blood was required.) --- But it required a Perfect Sacrifice, Jesus, and the indwelling Divine Word from God who could conquer death, --- and give the dead Sacrifice New Eternal life.

(More later)

Placid

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To continue in Hebrews 1 with verse:

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? (But He said that to the Heavenly Son of God in Psalm 2:7)

8 But to the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;

A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;

Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You

With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” Psalm 45:6-7

--- This identifies the heavenly Son of God who was from the beginning and was anointed, and chosen above his companions.

--- Jesus was never chosen from among others, but was uniquely born of a virgin.

10 And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,

And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

--- This again speaks of John 1:

1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. --- Also Isaiah 48:13.

11 They (the heaven and earth) will perish, but You remain;

And they will all grow old like a garment;

12 Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. --- 2 Peter 3:

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

10 But You are the same, And Your years will not fail.”

--- (The Eternal Word, Logos, the heavenly Son of God remains the same and will be the one to create the New Heaven and New Earth), --- as in Revelation 20:

1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.

2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”? Psalm 100:1

14 Are they (the angels) not all ministering spirits (servants) sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation? --- (That is us.)

One more thing, there is another role for Jesus and it is as our High Priest in heaven, --- it says in Hebrews 7:

15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest

16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment (as an earthly priest), but according to the power of an endless life.

17 For He testifies:

“You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.”[

18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness (of the priesthood ordained by men),

19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

20 And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath

21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him:

“The Lord has sworn And will not relent,

‘You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek’”),

22 by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.

23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing.

24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood.

25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;

27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.

(You may have lots of questions.)

Placid

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Hi Placid,

I am returned to your statement;

"To start with on our ‘field trip’, I want to say that I don’t understand God and His Perfect Ways, --- but by studying, we come across truths that relate to other truths."

 

 

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. :)

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Hi Clynn,

Quote from Post 168 on the Paul topic:

The impression of Jesus, to the people of His time, was obviously that He was the Son of God... beginning with the appearance of the dove of the Holy Spirit at His baptism, where apparently the people heard the voice of God saying, 'this is My Son, in whom I am well pleased'.

--- And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Response: --- I was hoping that you might ask me some of these questions. --- I try to explain a lot of things in detail, but I answer questions you are perhaps not asking, --- I will take the liberty of giving you my understanding here.

Quote: The impression of Jesus, to the people of His time, was obviously that He was the Son of God.

--- And that is true, Jesus was the earthly Son of God. --- Since the Word could not be seen by human eyes, God prepared a body that could be seen by human eyes.

And as I said, --- The Word was the Eternal Son of God, who came down to ‘indwell’ the earthly Son of God (or Son of Man.) --- Hebrews 10:

5 But a body You have prepared for Me.

7 ‘Behold, I have come— To do Your will, O God.’

Quote: (At His Baptism), The people heard the voice of God saying, 'this is My Son, in whom I am well pleased'.

--- So since the Word, the Eternal Son of God (through whom the worlds were made), was ‘indwelling’ the earthly Son, Jesus, then God said it right, He could refer to the ‘indwelling’ Son, the Word, as well as the visible Expression, or Manifestation of God, which was Jesus.

Quote: (On the mountain), And behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

--- Here again was the Word, the Eternal Son ‘indwelling’ the earthly human Son, and God said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, HEAR HIM.”

So Jesus was the one for men to follow. John 5:24.

--- Jesus was the total Expression of the Word, because the Word spoke through Him. Jesus had the human vocal chords, but the speech was from God.

It deals with the Pharisees accusations in John 8:

23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

--- (However, Jesus was of this world, but the Word who ‘indwelt’ Jesus was not of this world.)

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

--- (So it was the voice of Jesus, but the speech was from the indwelling Word who was from before Abraham.)

--- Consider this, --- that the Word could not be seen except in the Person of Jesus, --- the same as today, the Holy Spirit that speaks through men cannot be seen except through the person that is speaking, is that not right?

Placid

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Hi Clynn,

I realize you are quite busy and may not get around to considering this perspective for a while, so I want to add something on, ‘our relationship with God.’

We become Christians by believing in God and accepting Jesus as our Savior, do we not? --- John 1:12 said, “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

--- So we are called Children of God because we are ‘born of God.’ --- And the Holy Spirit of God comes in to give us the assurance of our relationship with God, and to guide us, is that not right?

(The Trinitarians talk in terms of God the Holy Spirit.)

--- In the natural, we are a three part being, --- body, soul and spirit. --- When the Holy Spirit comes in, do we become a four part being? --- Body, soul, spirit, and Holy Spirit?

In natural death there is the separation as it says in Ecclesiastes 12:

7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. --- (And the soul goes to the place where it waits for judgment.)

--- In the death of a ‘born again’ Christian, I understand that the body goes to the grave, or ‘returns to dust,’ --- and the spirit (the breath of life) ‘returns to God who gave it.’ --- And the ‘indwelling’ Holy Spirit takes the ‘saved soul’ to heaven.

--- Because of our acceptance of God’s plan of salvation, and because we follow Jesus’ teaching, we are already judged ‘righteous in Christ,’ are we not? --- John 5:

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.”

--- That is good news, isn’t it? --- We can endure some hardships, knowing that God has already accepted us.

Okay, --- the question. --- Because we have (God) the Holy Spirit, ‘indwelling’ us, do we become God? --- No, we are human right until we die physically, are we not?

And Jesus who was born on earth in a human body (but without sin) was ‘indwelt’ by (God) the Word, --- so did Jesus become God?

It says in Hebrews 2:

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death. --- (Notice, 'Jesus was made')

And in 1 Peter 3:

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,

Jesus died in His human body, did He not? --- And He rose again in a Spiritual body, which is the ‘Victory over death.’ --- And Jesus later ascended to heaven and is set down at the right hand of God, as it says in Hebrews 12:

2 Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

--- (And the Word, Logos, would return to heaven to resume His eternal role as one of the three witnesses in heaven), 1 John 5:

7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

--- (A final thing to notice is that it doesn’t say “These three are God,” --- but it says “These three are one,” --- in perfect harmony)

God the Father ‘decides,’ and the Word, and the Holy Spirit act in perfect harmony and obedience.

--- None of them can be seen by mankind, so they have to work through a human vessel. --- Jesus was that Vessel to bring the Message of salvation.

--- And we are now the ‘vessels’ God uses to spread the Message of that salvation, are we not?

Blessings.

Placid

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--- (A final thing to notice is that it doesn’t say “These three are God,” --- but it says “These three are one,” --- in perfect harmony)

God the Father ‘decides,’ and the Word, and the Holy Spirit act in perfect harmony and obedience.

 

Greetings Placid,

 

Yes.  This is how I would say that I see it. :)

 

Praying things are well with you,

CLynn

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Hi Clynn,

I would like to ask you a few questions about our understanding of the Holy Spirit.

I have a book that is entitled “Make me like You, Lord.”

--- And we are told that we are to become more like Jesus.

Since we have the Holy Spirit within to guide us, why do we ‘do and say’ things that are not of the Spirit?

Can we 'do and say' things from ourselves, without the guidance or ‘censure’ of the Holy Spirit?

How do you understand this?

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Hi Clynn,

I would like to ask you a few questions about our understanding of the Holy Spirit.

I have a book that is entitled “Make me like You, Lord.”

--- And we are told that we are to become more like Jesus.

Since we have the Holy Spirit within to guide us, why do we ‘do and say’ things that are not of the Spirit?

Can we 'do and say' things from ourselves, without the guidance or ‘censure’ of the Holy Spirit?

How do you understand this?

 

Greetings Placid,

 

Oh absolutely we can do and say things that are not of the Spirit.

The only way I speak with the guidance of the Holy Spirit is when I take time to listen...

to 'Be still, and know'.  I try to always seek this guidance before I speak.  If I feel unled to speak, I hold my words until I do feel the leading.  (I know that is a very weird sentence. :lol:)  I can admit I do not always adhere to this restriction... God knows I am still stubbornly disobedient and in my own will sometimes. ;) 

 

asalaam and blessings,

CLynn

 

Only the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are in perfect harmony.  I would like to be.  It is my goal, but I am not there yet.  I would say I am about 90%. :)

I don't know if that full perfection can be reached in this life.

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Hi Clynn,

Thanks, --- that is wonderful to feel the leading of the Holy Spirit, is it not?

Sometimes when I have written something, I go over it slowly and want His guidance to weed out the wrong or unnecessary words or sentences. Since most of my posts end up longer than I first intend, I need the Lord to guide me.

It is good to know that you have this leading as well.

Someone said, “It isn’t how much we have of the Holy Spirit, but how much He has of us.”

Just sharing.

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Hi Clynn,

Someone said, “It isn’t how much we have of the Holy Spirit, but how much He has of us.”

Just sharing.

 

Greetings Placid,

 

I agree.  Sometimes I read my own words, that I know that I wrote, and I wonder where they come from.  They are often beyond myself to know.  I have become used to this.  In the early days I was very much aware of it, now it is more second nature. :)  I think the biggest thing is the way God is always speaking to me with the scriptures.  I have never in my life been able to memorize anything, and yet God's words come to me as natural as water flows from a spring.  His Word, is truly 'alive and active', when we seek Him with our hearts.

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Hi Clynn,

Quote from Post 16 on the other topic:
All the others originate from the Catholic church and the Catholic (Apostles) creed. The Catholic church is the original church from which the others take their teaching. The others only decided to modify some of the teachings.

Response: --- The Apostles’ Creed is perhaps the earliest statement of Faith from the Apostles, and no doubt from the time of the Apostles. --- The Church was established by the Apostles, with this identification in Acts 2:
40 And with many other words he (Peter) testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.”
41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.
42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.
44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,
45 and sold their (extra) possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the Church daily those who were being saved.
--- (These are what we still practice in Evangelical Churches today.)

The Roman Catholic Church started after 300 AD and in 325 began to write and impose their own doctrines including the Nicene Creed. --- The Apostles’ Creed preceded this, and is not the same as the Catholic doctrines and Creeds.

(You said) Quote: I thought I'd add another note. I have not made my conclusions from watching this one video. This video simply fits in well with other things I have studied.
--- (I am wondering what your conclusions will be as a result of your following statement.)
Quote from Post 12:
I find it believable... especially when I heard this time about the tradition of when a Buddha dies the magi go seeking the newborn child who is believed to be the reincarnation of the Buddha. But I have said before how I saw a great deal of similarity in what Jesus taught to what the Buddha taught... and the Buddha came long before.
(Peace said) Hi Clynn
So you think that Jesus might be a reincarnation of the Buddha. Buddha reborn?

Response: --- (If you allow readers to think that Jesus might be a re-incarnation of Buddha, I guess that would change your belief quite a bit from what the Bible teaches, wouldn’t it?.

Buddha, Confucius, and Socrates lived from 560-400 BC and their philosophy was profound, --- but we know that all wisdom comes from God, --- so if Buddha had wisdom from God, that was the same as Jesus had, --- it wasn’t that Jesus got wisdom from Buddha, --- but they both got it from God, is that not right?

I wonder if you have noticed that each year, just before Easter and the Resurrection, there are films or videos that try to refute what the Scriptures teach. --- If you are going to mix those, with other things you have studied, you might be led away, or distracted, from the Gospel Message this year.
(Just a caution)

Placid

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Buddha, Confucius, and Socrates lived from 560-400 BC and their philosophy was profound, --- but we know that all wisdom comes from God, --- so if Buddha had wisdom from God, that was the same as Jesus had, --- it wasn’t that Jesus got wisdom from Buddha, --- but they both got it from God, is that not right?

 

Hi Placid

 

The Buddha was definitely a great reformer and a man of great compassion. But Buddhists claim that he did not believe in God.  His teachings were in some respects very good, comprising goodness to all forms of life - human as well as animal .

 

But, since he did not believe in God - at least, that is what  his followers say - his teachings have a hollow ring to them. 

 

Most of his teachings were about compassion for men as well as animals including ants, mosquitoes and flies.

 

And he also believed in reincarnation, the almost unending cycle of birth and death.

 

If you do good in this life, you could be born into a royal family in the next but if you do evil, you might end up a mosquito in your next.

 

Unless his teachings have been altered considerably,they are not are profound as might first appear.

 

For example, one Buddhist monk once told me that Buddhism requires that if you see one person assaulting another, you are required to walk away. You have no right to cause a potential injury to anyone.

 

I am not sure if that is mainstream Buddhism but disbelief in God certainly is.

 

I think some Buddhists vaguely believe that the Buddha was some sort of a god.

 

Even if the Buddha did believe in God and his followers have somehow misunderstood him, which is what I think might have happened, one thing is certain - that he never talked about God.  

 

God did not form part of his main focus.

 

Actually, Islam also teaches goodness to animals but  the main focus in Islam is belief in and obedience to God. 

 

In any case, kindness to dangerous animals is not expected at the cost of your own safety or that of other human beings.

 

If you see a dog trying to maul a child,  you should kill the dog to save the child.

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Hi Clynn,

Buddha, Confucius, and Socrates lived from 560-400 BC and their philosophy was profound, --- but we know that all wisdom comes from God, --- so if Buddha had wisdom from God, that was the same as Jesus had, --- it wasn’t that Jesus got wisdom from Buddha, --- but they both got it from God, is that not right?

(Just a caution)

Placid

 

Greetings Placid,

 

Thank you for your cautions.  The thing I bolded above is kinda what I was meaning to say.

God's blessings to you,

CLynn

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Hi Placid

 

The Buddha was definitely a great reformer and a man of great compassion. But Buddhists claim that he did not believe in God.  His teachings were in some respects very good, comprising goodness to all forms of life - human as well as animal .

 

But, since he did not believe in God - at least, that is what  his followers say - his teachings have a hollow ring to them. 

 

Most of his teachings were about compassion for men as well as animals including ants, mosquitoes and flies.

 

And he also believed in reincarnation, the almost unending cycle of birth and death.

 

If you do good in this life, you could be born into a royal family in the next but if you do evil, you might end up a mosquito in your next.

 

Unless his teachings have been altered considerably,they are not are profound as might first appear.

 

For example, one Buddhist monk once told me that Buddhism requires that if you see one person assaulting another, you are required to walk away. You have no right to cause a potential injury to anyone.

 

I am not sure if that is mainstream Buddhism but disbelief in God certainly is.

 

I think some Buddhists vaguely believe that the Buddha was some sort of a god.

 

Even if the Buddha did believe in God and his followers have somehow misunderstood him, which is what I think might have happened, one thing is certain - that he never talked about God.  

 

God did not form part of his main focus.

 

Actually, Islam also teaches goodness to animals but  the main focus in Islam is belief in and obedience to God. 

 

In any case, kindness to dangerous animals is not expected at the cost of your own safety or that of other human beings.

 

If you see a dog trying to maul a child,  you should kill the dog to save the child.

 

 

Greetings baqar,

 

Good observances. 

Here, as with all religion, we must distinguish between 'Buddhism', and what Buddha taught.  I'm fairly certain that the Buddha(Siddartha) taught that God is found within.

Here is another thing to consider... the concept of reincarnation...

What do you suppose Yshwe(Jesus) meant when He said, in my Father's house are many mansions?

You see I find the concept of reaching higher levels(or planes of existence) entirely possible, and not incompatible with what Yshwe was saying.

asalaam,

CLynn

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Here, as with all religion, we must distinguish between 'Buddhism', and what Buddha taught.

 

Greetings Clynn

 

Perhaps you might like to quote from their scriptures what the Buddha taught about God.  

 

I'm fairly certain that the Buddha (Siddartha) taught that God is found within.

 

Fairly or absolutely?

 

When I first discovered that Buddhists don't believe in God, I was very surprised myself. 

 

I doubt if he even mentioned God and even if he did, it was on the sidelines and not the mainstay of his teachings.

 

What do you suppose Yshwe(Jesus) meant when He said,in my Father's house are many mansions? 

 

I don't know.

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Greetings Clynn

 

Perhaps you might like to quote from their scriptures what the Buddha taught about God.  

 

 

Fairly or absolutely?

 

When I first discovered that Buddhists don't believe in God, I was very surprised myself. 

 

I doubt if he even mentioned God and even if he did, it was on the sidelines and not the mainstay of his teachings.

 

Greetings baqar,

 

It is what I remember from a program I watched about the life of Siddartha... and after watching the program, I did further reading.

But no, I have said many times about my memory, and this is what I recall, and what I took from all that I learned about Siddartha, and I was left with the impression that he believed that God was found within.  Not saying I could not be wrong.  You would have to research Siddartha I suppose.

asalaam,

CLynn

I doubt if your finding will be shared by other Christians.

 

:)  Oh, I am sure you are correct.  More and more Christians I know, are becoming Buddhists.

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What about you?

 

You too?

 

You cannot be both a Christian and a Buddhist.

 

Greetings baqar,

 

I follow Yshwe(known as Jesus).  I see no better teaching, and no better hope.  That is where I put my trust, and that is who I want to go to be with when my time comes.

asalaam,

CLynn

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Hi Clynn and Baqar,

The great Philosophers appealed to men and gave them wisdom on the level that man could understand. --- The thought of reincarnation is not new, but if we believe that spirits, both good and evil, can indwell bodies, then a susceptible being of this century can be indwelt by a spirit that indwelt a human hundreds of years ago.
If you read about Edgar Casey, who was called ‘The Sleeping Prophet,’ you will find that he is credited with some 6000 documented cases of physical healing on people he didn’t know. --- He was a Christian, but not Evangelical.
--- Nevertheless, they would give him a name and the condition that needed healing, and he would go into a trance (sleep) and give an ancient remedy perhaps from roots and ancient foods, which would invariably bring results.
--- The simple explanation is that this ‘spirit’ may have been ‘disembodied’ of a pre-existing ‘spiritual’ body, --- and at one time indwelt a medical doctor, who had this knowledge.
The doctor would die, but the spirit would look for another body in which to dwell. --- Since spirits don’t die, it may have passed through many human bodies over thousands of years, and finally found a receptive body in Edgar Casey for the knowledge that it had from this medical doctor, so, it was serving a ‘helpful’ purpose by giving cures to people thousands of years after those medical remedies were set aside.
--- But the ‘wisdom’ came to Edgar Casey, when he was in a trance, or sleeping.

--- Is that not similar to the way Muhammad received the ‘revelations,‘ of the Surahs? --- Often he would go into a trance-like state, and the message from Gabriel would be implanted in his mind. --- Is that not right?
Just because there are things we don’t understand, we must be careful we don’t get carried away. --- In my studies, there are only three religions that came through Abraham, but many others that came from philosophers or self-seekers.

The wisdom that Buddha had was the concept that WE SHOULD LOVE ONE ANOTHER. --- That came from God and was written first in the laws of Moses,
--- First, that we should love God ‘with all our heart, soul, and mind,’ --- and that we should love our neighbor as we love ourselves. --- So on the basis of similarities between Buddha and Jesus, it was that they both had the message of LOVE. --- Buddha emphasized the love for every creature, which is a distortion of God’s love.
--- Jesus said in his Message, ‘The Sermon on the Mount,’ in Matthew 7:
12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
--- The Message of the NT is this that Jesus gave in John 13:
34 “A new Commandment I give unto you that you love one another, as I have loved you.
35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples if you have love one for another.

--- This wisdom was given to Jesus by God, not by Buddha, who also promoted the concept of love.
The Message of Christianity is Love. --- Muslims don’t readily understand that, so they don’t know that GOD ID LOVE, --- and that He desires His followers to express that love one to another.

I doubt that any true believer in God could become a Buddhist.
Also Clynn, you often use the unknown name Yshwe, which readers wouldn’t understand. --- Now you are adding the explanation that it refers to Jesus. --- His name in English is Jesus, is it not? --- Why not use it all the time to be understood?

Baqar, when you associate our three religions with the others, you are mixing apples and oranges. --- They can come to our religions to come closer to God, but if we go to their religions, --- we are walking away from God, are we not?

Placid

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