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polymath07

Why Does Allah Choose Prayers To Respond To?

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On many occasions, you hear believers thanking God for helping them to achieve something after a prayer. Assuming the truth of this notion, this would mean God is actually intervening in the affairs of human beings to alleviate their troubles.

Question: What about the malnourished, starving boy in the Third World sincerely praying for some food and water? Why isn't God intervening here? I'm witnessing a lack of consistency.

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Bro AM - : ) - well said..

The issue is, people like you like to look at a piece of paper with a black dot on it and if I were to ask you what do you see you will tell me: 'there's a black dot'. How many people would focus on the whole white paper? Not many. Our problems and suffering in comparison to the Hereafter is nothing.

One more thing...

We owe everything to Allah swt, and HE owes nothing to us.

It's like OP, AM, me, and masjid's Molana sit in a masjid in a circle. A person enters the masjid, hands out OP a $100 bill, AM the shirt of Prophet Solomon, me a Car Key :), and Molana a rare copy of Quran. Now none of us owed nothing to this new commer.

Can you complain to him that why he gave you the $100 bill and not the Car Key? Or can I complain to him that why he gave me the Car Keys and not the rare copy of Quran?

Justice of Allah swt MUST NEVER be judged by the material possessions someone got or not got. Justice of Allah swt is measured by how HE holds you accountable? A Muslim boy born in a Shia and also in a Sayed family with religious parents who have given him good training doing something haram has a lot more to answer to Allah swt than a newly converted Muslim kind who has atheist parents and was never trained by anyone except for a drug abusing single mom. Allah swt judges us by the potential and the capacity we had in our material lives.....

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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On many occasions, you hear believers thanking God for helping them to achieve something after a prayer. Assuming the truth of this notion, this would mean God is actually intervening in the affairs of human beings to alleviate their troubles.

Question: What about the malnourished, starving boy in the Third World sincerely praying for some food and water? Why isn't God intervening here? I'm witnessing a lack of consistency.

 

Allah swt put every single person where they are for a reason, I could be that starving child, but im not- and there is a reason behind it. Only Allah swt has this knowledge. As as the brothers said, you are looking for the problems that don't even exist- but they do for you because that is all you see.

 

When Allah swt put these human beings where they are today, it could me a number of reasons. what if they are the people who will use their wealth for sins and he saved them, what if he is testing the wealthy with them to see who gives charity, what if he is testing them to see if they will blame god for what's happening to them, what if he wants to see if they will hold on to god whilst being in the worst state.

 

it could be the biggest blessing but you and I don't know because we are nothing compared to god, and we will never know how merciful he is.

 

the prophet and the imams (as) were all poor, not one of them were rich, did they ever complain? no because when it comes to god, these things don't matter and unlike some, they don't look at the problems, the don't even see them because all they see is god's mercy.

 

it is narrated that prophet Mosa (as) asked god to show him his mercy, so god told him to go near a well. after he went the prophet (as) saw a horseman coming to get some water, on his way back, a bag of money fell from him. a second later; a young man came to get some water, he saw the bag of money and took it. then after that, a blind man came who also wanted water, an whilst he is taking water, the horseman came and he thought the blind man took his money, he said that it was not him, so the horseman took out his sword and killed him. - then Allah swt said to his prophet "did you see my mercy?" the prophet (as) said "and how O' lord, I didn't see but the young man stealing the money, and the blind man was killed innocently!" so Allah swt replied by saying "the horseman stole that same money from the young man's father, and now his father died, we have now returned the bag to the original owner. and the blind man killed the father of the horseman, so we revenged from the blind man with the hand of the son of the killer."

(from the book: القصص الواعضة by sheikh ali shaqeer)

 

see the mercy of Allah? don't act like we have the knowledge that he has.

 

wasalam.

Edited by PenOfTruth

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Question: What about the malnourished, starving boy in the Third World sincerely praying for some food and water? Why isn't God intervening here? I'm witnessing a lack of consistency.

 

Nothing magically appears from the sky. You can pray for food and water but it wouldn't show up in front of you.

The starving boy would probably need to find for sources of water or the food. If they are no sources of food or water, then he would be starving. I think some organization in the UN will be the first one to point out when that happens. Then you would need to depend on charitable contribution from others.

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And when it is said to them, "Spend from that which Allah has provided for you," those who disbelieve say to those who believe, "Should we feed one whom, if Allah had willed, He would have fed? You are not but in clear error." 36:47

And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided. 2:168

And He responds (to) the ones who have believed and done deeds of righteousness, and He gives them increase of His Grace. And the disbelievers will have a strict torment. 42:26

Edited by yukapuka2

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Its not arrogance to ask that type of question, the op cares and wants a fair world, just like one is told, if you pray you shall get.

 

Its great to be praising GOD when the stomachs and the Bank accounts are full. Though harder when one has to live through hell.

 

It would be far more interesting if GOD gave all those poor, 7th Heaven and the rest of us parrots 6th or lower. The joke would be better, especially the expressions. Hah haha.

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Who's to say He hasn't already answered the boys prayer? How do you know God hasn't prepared for him a seat in paradise?

So, basically, God is letting an impoverished person struggle for survival in the heat to give him Paradise after he suffers an agonisingly slow death?

But, obviously, God seems to have more than enough time to answer the prayers of someone living a healthy lifestyle with a living wage. These types of people receive His undivided attention even though their prayer may be quite unnecessary in comparison to the prayer of a ruined starving, thirsty person.

Do you get my point? The prayers of the monied or well-off folk invariably take precedence over the prayer of the poor.

The prayers of the former are granted AND they're promised heaven as they are moral believers.

The prayers of the latter are NOT answered because ... They're promised an eternal reward.

Do you not see the gap? The utter inconsistency? If this isn't a form of arbitrary choosing I don't know what is.

the prophet and the imams (as) were all poor, not one of them were rich, did they ever complain? no because when it comes to god, these things don't matter and unlike some, they don't look at the problems, the don't even see them because all they see is god's mercy.

Hint: They were not starving and malnourished.

it is narrated that prophet Mosa (as) asked god to show him his mercy, so god told him to go near a well. after he went the prophet (as) saw a horseman coming to get some water, on his way back, a bag of money fell from him. a second later; a young man came to get some water, he saw the bag of money and took it. then after that, a blind man came who also wanted water, an whilst he is taking water, the horseman came and he thought the blind man took his money, he said that it was not him, so the horseman took out his sword and killed him. - then Allah swt said to his prophet "did you see my mercy?" the prophet (as) said "and how O' lord, I didn't see but the young man stealing the money, and the blind man was killed innocently!" so Allah swt replied by saying "the horseman stole that same money from the young man's father, and now his father died, we have now returned the bag to the original owner. and the blind man killed the father of the horseman, so we revenged from the blind man with the hand of the son of the killer."

(from the book: القصص الواعضة by sheikh ali shaqeer)

A blind murderer? :puzzled:

Anyway, the moral of that story is that if you're a man on a horse you get to steal, kill someone on the spot without evidence and then get away with it all with a smiley sticker from the Lord.

The quintessence of wholesome justice... with cheese.

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Anyway, the moral of that story is that if you're a man on a horse you get to steal, kill someone on the spot without evidence and then get away with it all with a smiley sticker from the Lord.

The quintessence of wholesome justice... with cheese.

 

I wonder if Allah swt, did not put you in the starving child's position to stop you from disbelieving in him....

 

peace of advice: have the intention to learn, and if you do, show it.

 

waslam.

Edited by PenOfTruth

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So, basically, God is letting an impoverished person struggle for survival in the heat to give him Paradise after he suffers an agonisingly slow death?

But, obviously, God seems to have more than enough time to answer the prayers of someone living a healthy lifestyle with a living wage. These types of people receive His undivided attention even though their prayer may be quite unnecessary in comparison to the prayer of a ruined starving, thirsty person.

Do you get my point? The prayers of the monied or well-off folk invariably take precedence over the prayer of the poor.

The prayers of the former are granted AND they're promised heaven as they are moral believers.

The prayers of the latter are NOT answered because ... They're promised an eternal reward.

Do you not see the gap? The utter inconsistency? If this isn't a form of arbitrary choosing I don't know what is.

Hint: They were not starving and malnourished.

A blind murderer? :puzzled:

Anyway, the moral of that story is that if you're a man on a horse you get to steal, kill someone on the spot without evidence and then get away with it all with a smiley sticker from the Lord.

The quintessence of wholesome justice... with cheese.

 

I hope you are not implying God prefers rich people to the poor. Because he doesn't get anything from any of them.

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On many occasions, you hear believers thanking God for helping them to achieve something after a prayer. Assuming the truth of this notion, this would mean God is actually intervening in the affairs of human beings to alleviate their troubles.

Question: What about the malnourished, starving boy in the Third World sincerely praying for some food and water? Why isn't God intervening here? I'm witnessing a lack of consistency.

 

 

Question do you have to doubt in Gods Justice?

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I wonder if Allah swt, did not put you in the starving child's position to stop you from disbelieving in him....

An ad hominem doesn't distract from the poor logic of the "parable." If this is a genuine musing to somehow respond to the main argument of the thread then it fails to acknowledge that my social class or condition plays no bearing on the arbitrariness and inconsistency of divine acceptance of prayer.

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lol repeating my last post

peace of advice: have the intention to learn, and if you do, show it.

 

im not trying to be rude but from the first post, you started out like :

 Hint: They were not starving and malnourished.

A blind murderer? :puzzled:

Anyway, the moral of that story is that if you're a man on a horse you get to steal, kill someone on the spot without evidence and then get away with it all with a smiley sticker from the Lord.

The quintessence of wholesome justice... with cheese.          

 

 

-honestly, you seem like your looking for trouble. especially with the "why does Allah swt cherry pick prayers to respond to"

 

people who have that strong connection with Allah, would be like "I know ya Allah, there is a reason behind it- and I don't have the knowledge you do, how dare me question my lord."

 

and even after you got good answers, you rejected them.

 

I like to discuss with open minded people who reply with good manners and question my reply rather than reject them.

 

and strongly advise to study the life of ahlulbayt (as).

 

 

 

you said: So, basically, God is letting an impoverished person struggle for survival in the heat to give him Paradise after he suffers an agonisingly slow death?

 

- you don't know what this world is do you, it is nothing and I bet when those starving people enter heaven they will forget what they went through in the temporary world and even thank god for it.

 when the believers enter heaven, their bad memories will be erased because Allah swt does not want them to remember it.

 

you said: But, obviously, God seems to have more than enough time to answer the prayers of someone living a healthy lifestyle with a living wage. These types of people receive His undivided attention even though their prayer may be quite unnecessary in comparison to the prayer of a ruined starving, thirsty person.

 

- I bet you, the wealthy did not even pray for what they have, I did not. but we thank him for it. we were born into it and there is a reason behind it and again that knowledge is only with god. we shouldn't think that we should have it as well. half of the wealthy are being tested with their wealth. and how hard that is for them.

 

I advise you to stop looking at the problems and actually try to find Allah, once you do- you will understand. and again study the life of ahlulbayt (as) if you keep blaming god for what you think is correct, you will waste a lifetime.

 

even if you get the best of answers, you will look at the negatives that don't exist. honestly, you need to find the true image of god or your lost forever.

 

have not you heard that Allah swt gives thawab to the one who has only the intention of doing something good? and does not write down if he had the intention of doing something bad? have you not heard that Allah swt tells the angles to give a sinner 7 hourse to ask for forgiveness before writing it down? have you not  heard the story where prophet jesus (as) asked Allah swt why that person in the grave is not being tortured any more and Allah swt replied because his son made way for a group of people to walk by? have you not heard of the person who will be the last to be judged on the day of judgment, and whilst he was taken to hell, he will look back, and Allah swt will says 'my servant why did you look back?' and the person replies 'I never though you would do this to me, are you not merciful? ' and he is lying, he never even remembered god in the world, and Allah swt will say "because of that lie, you can enter heaven"

 

if you actually study islam, you will see how merciful he is. and if your going to use the starving people as an excuse, then again that knowledge is only with Allah, and we will never know it.

 

wassalam.

Edited by PenOfTruth

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I hope you are not implying God prefers rich people to the poor. Because he doesn't get anything from any of them.

No, you're missing the point. I'm saying based on general empiricism that God only seems to respond to the prayers of those who don't always really need it in terms of level of importance as compared to those who really do need it. By regarding the rationale for it being a trial or "test," it's simply another way of saying God works in delirious ways. A starving Muslim boy unable to find enough sustenance in his volatile social circumstance and crying to God for it, who is not even at the appropriate age to be tested by God, doesn't benefit from the test except by dying a painful death. An urban Muslim women whispers a prayer, an invocation to God to help her find her car keys; this is apparently a test but she gets what she wants in the end. God preferred to answer her prayer but invariably ignores the prayers of those in a serious life or death situation.

lol repeating my last post

peace of advice: have the intention to learn, and if you do, show it.

First, it's "piece" of advice, not "peace." Second, I do. I just have a different style of showing it at times.

I like to discuss with open minded people who reply with good manners and question my reply rather than reject them.

So your criteria of engaging in a debate or discussion is basically "agree with me or you're not worthy of my time." I in fact did question your reply in a sense by revealing the inherent flaw. Perhaps you wanted me to ask afterward "how does this make sense?" Sorry. I thought you were able to infer it from the flaws I pointed out. People of sound intellect are generally capable.

Edited by polymath07

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first I edited my post hope you read it.


No, you're missing the point. I'm saying based on general empiricism that God only seems to respond to the prayers of those who don't always really need it in terms of level of importance as compared to those who really do need it. By regarding the rationale for it being a trial or "test," it's simply another way of saying God works in delirious ways. A starving Muslim boy unable to find enough sustenance in his volatile social circumstance and crying to God for it, who is not even at the appropriate age to be tested by God, doesn't benefit from the test except by dying a painful death. An urban Muslim women whispers a prayer, an invocation to God to help her find her car keys; this is apparently a test but she gets what she wants in the end. God preferred to answer her prayer but invariably ignores the prayers of those in a serious life or death situation.


First, it's "piece" of advice, not "peace." Second, I do. I just have a different style of showing it at times.


So your criteria of engaging in a debate or discussion is basically "agree with me or you're not worthy of my time." I in fact did question your reply in a sense by revealing the inherent flaw. Perhaps you wanted me to ask afterward "how does this make sense?" Sorry. I thought you were able to infer it from the flaws I pointed out. People of sound intellect are generally capable.

 

one thing to never do in a discussion, correct the spelling mistakes, everyone knows that.

 

secondly, calm down.

 

thirdly, you need a long reply, which I will do tomorrow.

 

actually ill do it now.

Edited by PenOfTruth

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An ad hominem doesn't distract from the poor logic of the "parable." If this is a genuine musing to somehow respond to the main argument of the thread then it fails to acknowledge that my social class or condition plays no bearing on the arbitrariness and inconsistency of divine acceptance of prayer.

You Fail to Answer the Question.

Do you doubt in Gods justice or not? if so, you have Contradicted your reasoning with higher Intelligence, Which you Seem to Ignore.

If you cannot Answer this Question, a Dialogue here is baseless.  

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No, you're missing the point. I'm saying based on general empiricism that God only seems to respond to the prayers of those who don't always really need it in terms of level of importance as compared to those who really do need it. By regarding the rationale for it being a trial or "test," it's simply another way of saying God works in delirious ways. A starving Muslim boy unable to find enough sustenance in his volatile social circumstance and crying to God for it, who is not even at the appropriate age to be tested by God, doesn't benefit from the test except by dying a painful death. An urban Muslim women whispers a prayer, an invocation to God to help her find her car keys; this is apparently a test but she gets what she wants in the end. God preferred to answer her prayer but invariably ignores the prayers of those in a serious life or death situation.

First, it's "piece" of advice, not "peace." Second, I do. I just have a different style of showing it at times.

So your criteria of engaging in a debate or discussion is basically "agree with me or you're not worthy of my time." I in fact did question your reply in a sense by revealing the inherent flaw. Perhaps you wanted me to ask afterward "how does this make sense?" Sorry. I thought you were able to infer it from the flaws I pointed out. People of sound intellect are generally capable.

 

colour coded:

 

 firstly, how do you know he is not responding the wealthy peoples' prayer? they could be people who forget they even have wealth, and could be praying for other things that are not being answered. just because they have wealth , it does not mean that they have prayers that are answered. you do not judge the person with his wealth. they could be praying for a baby that they are3 not having, the problem with you I that you are focusing on the people who are starving, I repeat have an open mind. 

 

-who said they are being tested? maybe yes maybe no. again do not act like you have that knowledge. once again you think this world is worth while, but when those people enter heaven they will even forget about. you sound like god is the one putting a chain around his mouth to stop him from eating stagfrullah, as someone said you have to think about the environment as well, Allah swt does not have to make a miracle and make cherries rain.

 

how is the car keys thing a test? and how are you so sure that Allah swt actually answered that, maybe she just found it under the couch..

 

I did not say you are not worth my time..? but I dislike having a discussion with someone replies disrespectfully, and with the image of no intention in actually learning from what I have to say.

 

I can reply if I know what post your talking about.

 

hope you read my edited post #14, waslam.

Edited by PenOfTruth

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-who said they are being tested? maybe yes maybe no. again do not act like you have that knowledge. once again you think this world is worth while, but when those people enter heaven they will even forget about.

The heaven argument is your "get out of jail free" card. Are all poor believers in God guaranteed heaven on the sole basis that they're poor and die poor? Is that what you're saying?

Allah swt does not have to make a miracle and make cherries rain.

He had no problem performing miracles in the past. He was very generous in feeding Maryam.

3.37. So her Lord (Allah) accepted her with goodly acceptance. He made her grow in a good manner and put her under the care of Zakariya (Zachariya). Every time he entered Al-Mihrab to (visit) her, he found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O Maryam (Mary)! From where have you got this?" She said, "This is from Allah." Verily, Allah provides sustenance to whom He wills, without limit."

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The heaven argument is your "get out of jail free" card. Are all poor believers in God guaranteed heaven on the sole basis that they're poor and die poor? Is that what you're saying?

He had no problem performing miracles in the past. He was very generous in feeding Maryam.

3.37. So her Lord (Allah) accepted her with goodly acceptance. He made her grow in a good manner and put her under the care of Zakariya (Zachariya). Every time he entered Al-Mihrab to (visit) her, he found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O Maryam (Mary)! From where have you got this?" She said, "This is from Allah." Verily, Allah provides sustenance to whom He wills, without limit."

 

firstly, lets not be sure that all of them are going to heaven. and Yes Allah swt) will offcourse make them forget what they went through, even though they will forget it when they die because they realized the world is nothing compared to the next but anyway.

 

are you really comparing humanity with holy Maryam (as)?  the prophet (saw) said she is the lady of her time, please.

plus, every miracle has a reason behind it, you think he wanted her to die when she was the one who had to bring prophet jesus (as)? you know why I cant tell you why god is not performing miracles for the starving? because I am a creation and I will never have that knowledge but because of my trust in him, I know he it is a good cause. our chapters don't start with 'in the name f god, the most beneficent, the most merciful' for nothing. apart from the starving, do you see any miracles happening? this time in particular nothing is happening, and only he knows why. I could be blaming Allah stagfrullah for not bring down angles to kill the salafies in Syria, but I know there is a reason which I do know because im simply a creation, and I hope one of them is that it is a sign for us to know the imam (af) is coming soon.

 

waslam.

Edited by PenOfTruth

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On many occasions, you hear believers thanking God for helping them to achieve something after a prayer. Assuming the truth of this notion, this would mean God is actually intervening in the affairs of human beings to alleviate their troubles.

Question: What about the malnourished, starving boy in the Third World sincerely praying for some food and water? Why isn't God intervening here? I'm witnessing a lack of consistency.

 

You are posting on a forum where the replies will be predictable. The issue you raised can only be reconciled by inserting the afterlife component, practically all religious folks will use that approach.

 

And from an unbiased perspective, the religious folks are in a predicament (the irony is I'm probably one of them), using reality (ex. kids dying of starvation) which can be witnessed (verified) yet trying to reconcile it with an unverified theory (ex. after death you will get the reward) is somewhat inconsistent, and many will say a cop out. Why? Because practically every religion can make the same claim without needing to provide empirical evidence. 

 

Have you seen people suffering? Yes.

Have you seen people being rewarded in heaven? No. 

 

Reconciling the 'Yes' with a 'No' is not going to convince many people. 

 

------

 

I don't know whether you believe in God or not. If you don't, then this prayer stuff is a moot point. If you do, then you just have to come to a realization that many things are difficult to comprehend/understand - no answers will be convincing, just have to accept He has His reasons.

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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Nothing magically appears from the sky. You can pray for food and water but it wouldn't show up in front of you.

The starving boy would probably need to find for sources of water or the food. If they are no sources of food or water, then he would be starving. I think some organization in the UN will be the first one to point out when that happens. Then you would need to depend on charitable contribution from others.

 

Well to some special people it appeared. And I believe to some people it does "appear" out of "nowhere". But the vast majority of mankind is not deserving of this. 

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Question: What about the malnourished, starving boy in the Third World sincerely praying for some food and water? Why isn't God intervening here? I'm witnessing a lack of consistency.

 

Islam is actually about love and compassion. Once a person is tuned to Islam the feeling of compassion will automatically become his/her walk of life. If the compassion feeling is not there than his / her Islamness is questionable. Once the muslim universally are compassionate people than they are the one who will respond the prayer of the malnourished starving boy.

Back to Wahdat ul Wujuud again I guess.

 

 
Hast thou observed him who belieth religion?

That is he who repelleth the orphan,
And urgeth not the feeding of the needy.
 
Ah, woe unto worshippers

Who are heedless of their prayer;
Who would be seen (at worship)

Yet refuse small kindnesses!

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firstly, lets not be sure that all of them are going to heaven. and Yes Allah swt) will offcourse make them forget what they went through, even though they will forget it when they die because they realized the world is nothing compared to the next but anyway.

Well, exactly. You have disproved your own argument that heaven is a compensating tool for God wilfully ignoring the plight of the poverty stricken. Being poor, per se, isn't an essential criteria for attaining bliss. So what other reason can you provide for why God pays selective attention? If people are supposed to be kept alive on earth, especially be at the right age in order to be tested, then it doesn't appear that God is fulfilling His own Will. It essentially amounts to a contradiction in the end.

Edited by polymath07

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Well, exactly. You have disproved your own argument that heaven is a compensating tool for God wilfully ignoring the plight of the poverty stricken. Being poor, per se, isn't an essential criteria for attaining bliss. So what other reason can you provide for why God pays selective attention? If people are supposed to be kept alive on earth, especially be at the right age in order to be tested, then it doesn't appear that God is fulfilling His own Will. It essentially amounts to a contradiction in the end.

 

first I hold my argument strongly.  second god is not ignoring them, he created them bro. you know what you don't understand? this world is nothing.  imam ali (as) says if the world was worth a wing of a fly to Allah swt, he will not give the disbelievers a sip of water.

 

this world is temporary, low, nothing basically- as soon as the starving die, they will even forget their thirst, facing Allah swt, the prophet (saw) and ahlulbayt (as). and on the day of judgment I guarantee you, not one person will be judged unjustly. and don't worry, your starving will not  too.  have you read my posts? have you see how merciful Allah is? I tell you spend a night reading the quran and miss out on your sleep, and you will find the true face of god.

 

your focusing on the starving people so much, I tell you if this world was worth anything to god, he would give them all his blessings in the word. but it is simply a test. You need to realize that they will be given what they deserve, but in a place where life is permanent.

 

likewise with some of the wealthy, they were given wealth simply because they think they are all that.  

 

Allah swt says in the quran 3:178: and let not those who disbelieve ever think that we extend their time (for enjoyment) it is better for them, we only extend it for them so that they may increase in sin, and for them is a humiliating punishment.

 

if you actually read the quran, you will see that god sometimes only gives wealth to let them enjoy before the permanent punishment comes. likewise with the starving, but opposite.

 

waslam.

Edited by PenOfTruth

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Well, exactly. You have disproved your own argument that heaven is a compensating tool for God wilfully ignoring the plight of the poverty stricken. Being poor, per se, isn't an essential criteria for attaining bliss. So what other reason can you provide for why God pays selective attention? If people are supposed to be kept alive on earth, especially be at the right age in order to be tested, then it doesn't appear that God is fulfilling His own Will. It essentially amounts to a contradiction in the end.

 

 

From birth to death, there are hundreds of such conditions which are beyond our power, which are under the absolute control of Allah. A man is born in a wealthy and educated family; another in a nomad family of primitive civilization. Naturally, the first one has more chances of material well‑being and intellectual development than the second one. A man is healthy and strong; another remains chronically sick. One is born blind, another has nor­mal eyesight. Naturally, one can do more work than the other. A man lives up to eighty years, another dies in young age. The first one gets enough time to fulfill his plans, while the second one is not given time even to formulate any plan.

 

These and many such aspects of life are beyond the control of human beings. These matters are truly subject to "predetermination by God" which is called qada' (fate) andqadar (divine decree).

 

Why Allah chooses a certain condition of life for a certain man? It is a riddle which is beyond any solution. Many groups have tried to find answer to this puzzle. But all in vain. No theory solves the problems involved even partially.

 

When all is said and done, the only answer is provided by the verse of the Qur'an: "He is not  questioned about what He does; but they (the people) shall be questioned." (21:23) It was perhaps for this reason that Amiru'l‑mu'minin 'Ali bin Abi Talib (peace be upon him) said about qadar of Allah that "it is a deep ocean; you should not enter it."

 

However, we can be confident that whatever is decreed is because of some good reason. What is the basis of this assertion? Let us look at those things which we do understand, like the system of universe, co‑ordination of different forces of nature, our own biological system and the arrangement which have been made on this earth to make our lives pleasant. All these things convince us that the Creator has done nothing without a good reason. After this manifestation of His wisdom and knowledge, if we come across some aspects of life which we are unable to understand, it is not difficult to assume that these things also must have some valid reasons.

 

Allah says in the Qur'an: "Verily We have created every thing to a determined measure." (54:49) So, it is according to His own measure and plan that Allah has created every thing. As I have mentioned pre­viously, we are justified in believing that there is good reason for every aspect of an individual's life as planned by Allah, though that individual may be unable to understand it by himself.

 

Look at a wrist watch. Some parts are made of gold, others of steel; still others of glass and ruby. There is a flat dial; arrow‑like hands; hair‑like spring; and axis-like spring‑wheel; and various wheels, all of different sizes., The dial is white, the numerals black, the hand of second red and other two hands black: The numbers vary from one to twelve: In short, it takes scores of parts of different type, colour, origin and shape to make an ordinary wrist watch work.

 

Could the wrist‑watch work if all the com­ponents Were of the same shape, size and design? Can the minute‑and‑hour hands complain.justifiab­ly why they were coloured black while the hand of second was painted red? Can the number 1 com­plain why it was not given the position of 12? And if all the numerals were put in one and the same position, could anybody know the time from that watch?

 

If a small ordinary wrist‑watch cannot work without different types of parts, is there any reason to believe that the human society could go on without different types of people having various colour, outlook, capacity and ability?

 

And look at what the critics say. They demand that there should not have been any sickness, any handicap, any financial gaps; people should have been of equal strength, intelligence and wealth.

 

Now let us look at what it envisages. It means that nobody would have depended upon any other person. Nobody would have done any work, be­cause we have already supposed that one person would have as much money as the other. Then why should anybody work when his health, life‑span, wealth and social status is guaranteed? The world would have remained as it was when Adam came on this earth. No improvement, not even bark‑cloth! It would have been like spoon‑feeding little children who have to do nothing for their own needs. But this is not the purpose for which we were created. We were created for a higher purpose, not just to eat, drink and breed.

 

If there was to be any test, there was bound to be some hardship. And that hardship differs from per­son to person. That test varies from one person to another. And it is because of this variety of test that we ,find variety of problems.

Brother @Polymath  By "equality" we do not mean that all human beings are of equal health and strength; nor that all of them are of equal intelligence; nor that all of them are born with equal eyesight, or hearing capacity; nor do we mean that man and woman are equal in physical capacity and biological functions. What we do mean by "equality" is the equality before the law. Rich and poor, strong and weak, all are equal in the eyes of religion; all have to follow the same rules and all are governed by the same civil, criminal and ethical codes. There is neither high nor low, neither favourite nor neglected in the eyes of law. Another meaning is that anybody in Islam can achieve the highest possible honour and office without any distinction of origin, colour or tribe. The criterion of respect in Islam is neither wealth nor strength, neither birth nor colour. The only criterion is the "character." Allah says, "Verily the most honoured before God amongst you is the most pious of you." (49:13)

Now for an example you might ask : "where is the justice of God when He gives one person normal eyes and deprives another of both eyes?"

 

You have been told that we are here for test. "The examiner is Allah. It is His prerogative to decide in which way a person is to be examined: The justice is in the fact that the examiner does not burden any one with a test which might be beyond his or her ability. Allah has not given us wings to fly; and therefore, does not ask of us to fly in the air like birds. This is justice. Had He asked us to fly like birds (without giving us the wings), then it would have been injustice. But can we claim that because He did not give us wings (while birds have got it) we have been wronged by God? No. It is His sole prerogative to decide by which test should a par­ticular person be examined. And it is His justice and mercy that He does not demand from anyone more than his or her ability. If He has created a man without hands, He at the same time has exempted him from jihad, wudu and tayammum. Had such a person been required to wage war without hands, then we could have rightly complained. But as long as the responsibilities of an individual are tailored to his abilities, nobody can say that Allah has done injustice.

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The income of the poor is placed in the hands of the rich it seems so if the wealthy do not give people will be harmed greed is to be abolished. However God places rizq and we must move to it and find it this is called amr bayn amrain. As for those whom death is destined for. There are three possibilities that may even sometimes all be preparatory causes to the effect. A: our fault B: for the benefit of mankind reward and lesson encouraging people to do something so the future people are not harmed while them now will achieve reward with God in the hereafter. C: punishments and warnings to turn to God. Salaam

Edited by Maitham

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if you actually read the quran, you will see that god sometimes only gives wealth to let them enjoy before the permanent punishment comes. likewise with the starving, but opposite.

All rich people are damned and all poor people receive salvation? Is that what you're saying? If not, please understand then that not all poor people are automatically guaranteed a goodly eternal abode. Which means, yes, you in fact have disproved your own argument.

You have been told that we are here for test. "The examiner is Allah. It is His prerogative to decide in which way a person is to be examined: The justice is in the fact that the examiner does not burden any one with a test which might be beyond his or her ability.

You don't think struggling for survival is a burden beyond ability? You don't think uncontrollably peeing out of terror and fear is a burden beyond ability? I guess nothing is then. It must be a "test." Let's deal with that proverbial problem waiver.

You assert that a test can't work without deficiencies. Do you actually believe the world would cease movement or disintegrate if there was noone in the world with an empty stomach? Any rational person knows that there would be plenty of other problems to deal with. Just one less.

Edited by polymath07

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All rich people are damned and all poor people receive salvation? Is that what you're saying? If not, please understand then that not all poor people are automatically guaranteed a goodly eternal abode. Which means, yes, you in fact have disproved your own argument.

You don't think struggling for survival is a burden beyond ability? You don't think uncontrollably peeing out of terror and fear is a burden beyond ability? I guess nothing is then. It must be a "test." Let's deal with that proverbial problem waiver.

You assert that a test can't work without deficiencies. Do you actually believe the world would cease movement or disintegrate if there was noone in the world with an empty stomach? Any rational person knows that there would be plenty of other problems to deal with. Just one less.

 

 

First of all surprisingly  you have the Audacity to question the verses I mentioned? you have the Courage to Question the book of Allah? Second of All you misunderstand what I meant by test. Third of all you are Questioning the Justice of the Creator and its reasoning. When I meant to say "test" I mean what we go through at the present time no matter what Disease or Terror you face, the test is whether you will believe in Him or not. Tomorrow we call all face Disease and terror, but that does not mean its completely by the creator that we face these things, but either a test, or due to our own foolish actions.

 

Last don't make a false Judgement and say I disapprove of my own argument, when you did not even ask me the meaning of the terms I was mentioning. And do you even recognize that your topic or what your saying is you judging the Justice of God?

Your Whole Argument is baseless.

Also would you like to Explain to me the Situation of Prophet Ayub (s)? Or can you Explain to me Why the Twelve Imams Where so poor? and Why the Khalifas where so rich? Is this Justice? go ahead.

    

(wasalam)    

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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If the world is nothing? Then why do we exist in it?. It must be something in order for the actors to play.

 

 

you have the Audacity to question the verses I mentioned? you have the Courage to Question the book of Allah?

Are you serious?....

 

Questions create answers.

 

 

 

Allah says, "Verily the most honoured before God amongst you is the most pious of you." (49:13)

So a tortured, raped person can keep their piety? or a human who has never had a decent education, home or meal?.....

 

 

The problem we have here is the standards of human natures and the conflicting ideals and desires we all possess. The terror we have today is the control of the few, using whatever means to oppress the many. The cause of questioning arises when the protector is not answering the cries of the unprotected. But at the same time, why are the protected not aiding the unprotected. The excerpt below give us a nice idea.

 

To them ( those whose intellectual interests are strongest ) most of all, but to all in some degree, education appears as a means of acquiring superiority over others; it is infected through and through with ruthlessness and glorification of social inequality.... Its essence is the assumption that what is most important is a certain kind of behavior, a behavior which minimizes friction between equals and delicately impressed inferiors with a conviction of their own crudity. As a practical weapon for preserving the privileges of the rich in  a snobbish democracy it is unsurpassable. As a means of producing and agreeable social milieu for the who have money with no strong beliefs or unusual desires, it has some merit. In every other respect it is abominable.

Edited by D3v1L

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All rich people are damned and all poor people receive salvation? Is that what you're saying? If not, please understand then that not all poor people are automatically guaranteed a goodly eternal abode. Which means, yes, you in fact have disproved your own argument.

You don't think struggling for survival is a burden beyond ability? You don't think uncontrollably peeing out of terror and fear is a burden beyond ability? I guess nothing is then. It must be a "test." Let's deal with that proverbial problem waiver.

You assert that a test can't work without deficiencies. Do you actually believe the world would cease movement or disintegrate if there was noone in the world with an empty stomach? Any rational person knows that there would be plenty of other problems to deal with. Just one less.

every single thing I have answered in my previous posts... you ignore everything and look for a way to reply only.

sorry I don't have time to re-write.

 

and if your still pointing out that I lost my own argument which I never did, you still don't have the intention to learn and gain closeness to god, don't you? 

 

no thankyou. stay on your doubts if so. and I hope you actually read my posts.. with an open mind..

 

one more thing.. find Allah.

 

waslam.

Edited by PenOfTruth

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If the world is nothing? Then why do we exist in it?. It must be something in order for the actors to play.

 

Are you serious?....

 

Questions create answers.

 

 

So a tortured, raped person can keep their piety? or a human who has never had a decent education, home or meal?.....

 

 

The problem we have here is the standards of human natures and the conflicting ideals and desires we all possess. The terror we have today is the control of the few, using whatever means to oppress the many. The cause of questioning arises when the protector is not answering the cries of the unprotected. But at the same time, why are the protected not aiding the unprotected. The excerpt below give us a nice idea.

 

To them ( those whose intellectual interests are strongest ) most of all, but to all in some degree, education appears as a means of acquiring superiority over others; it is infected through and through with ruthlessness and glorification of social inequality.... Its essence is the assumption that what is most important is a certain kind of behavior, a behavior which minimizes friction between equals and delicately impressed inferiors with a conviction of their own crudity. As a practical weapon for preserving the privileges of the rich in  a snobbish democracy it is unsurpassable. As a means of producing and agreeable social milieu for the who have money with no strong beliefs or unusual desires, it has some merit. In every other respect it is abominable.

 

Excuse me? Did you even read? Second of all, No matter what you have suffered from or attacked by. The Definition of Pious are those who are loyal to Allah.  

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The prayers of the monied or well-off folk invariably take precedence over the prayer of the poor.

 

He gives not only to those who pray but also to atheists - and sometimes heaps.

 

So what?

 

There is no such thing as precedence.

 

He just does what he wants.

 

You and I do not know enough about Him to unravel His reasons for doing what He does.   

Question: What about the malnourished, starving boy in the Third World sincerely praying for some food and water? Why isn't God intervening here? I'm witnessing a lack of consistency.

 

Once again, as stated, it is much too obvious that He gives whatever He wishes to whomsoever he wishes.

 

He gives not only to those who pray but also to atheists and sinners of the worst sort - murderers, rapists, swindlers.

 

It does not mean He is giving bad people any preference over good people.

 

And as far as the rich are concerned, they may have wealth but they may also have heaps and heaps of other problems that we are not aware of.

 

We cannot generalize and we just do not have the knowledge to determine His reasons for doing what He does. 

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He gives not only to those who pray but also to atheists - and sometimes heaps.

In that case why even pray for anything material? If an atheist can get his inner wishes fulfilled by God in one way or another without even believing in God then why can't a poor, starving believer have his wants met without praying for it?

The greatest irony is that you'd probably attribute "divine mystery" to why a poor atheist is given food instead of a poor believer. On the other hand, if the poor believer is given food instead of the poor atheist you'd claim that the believer is obviously more deserving, not the atheist.

It's a double standard because you're simply making it up as the arguments come along in order to justify what you believe in. What you don't realise is that once you involve a divine hand in all of this it makes God seem careless and unintelligent because none of it makes any sense.

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Well to some special people it appeared. And I believe to some people it does "appear" out of "nowhere". But the vast majority of mankind is not deserving of this. 

 

The key word is "special people". Also, the other thing you must remember and perhaps this is far more important than anything else, is that the only place you can find about food appearing from heaven are in religious books. These sort of events (food appearing from heaven) don't really happen in real life at least no one can claim to have experience it.

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