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yashia

Wilayat Al-Takwiniyyah

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What is Wilayat al-takwiniyyah I heard its when imams do a miracle without Allahs will. I also heard that many maraja such as Sayed Sistani follow it. I personally beleive (if that is the meaning of Wilayat al-takwiniyyah) that it is impossible that anyone can't do anything without the will of Allah.

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I'm just wondering how you find these answers on the website cause at times those questions aren't on there and if they are it wouldn't be in English at times.

I just checked and couldn't find it

Wa aleykum.

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sorry brother but what do you mean the sayed It to studied to believe in it?

 

sister*

 

meaning: he has reached the highest levels of Islamic studies, im pretty sure he knows that Allah swt controls every miracle.

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sister*

 

meaning: he has reached the highest levels of Islamic studies, im pretty sure he knows that Allah swt controls every miracle.

 

Sorry sister* and thanks I never knew  the sayed it to studied believe in it had a meaning let alone make sense

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What is Wilayat al-takwiniyyah I heard its when imams do a miracle without Allahs will. I also heard that many maraja such as Sayed Sistani follow it. I personally beleive (if that is the meaning of Wilayat al-takwiniyyah) that it is impossible that anyone can't do anything without the will of Allah.

 

That is an incorrect definition of al-Wilayah al-Takweenyah. It's a rather deep concept, difficult to explain adequately in a comment. However, a very basic explanation is that it is the Wilayah, or guardianship, that Allah (SWT) has granted to the Ma'soomeen. They have control over the universe and its affairs. Of course, this is never outside the will of Allah (SWT) - and nor would any actions carried out by any of the Ma'soomeen fall outside of Allah's (SWT) will in the first place.

 

Most Maraji' do indeed believe in it, however, not all do. 

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The belief is not correct, I don't know if most ulema believe in it today but I honestly doubt it.

 

The ancient scholars did in fact attack this belief as well, there are also proofs against it.

 

Authority over the universe is something khaas to Allah (swt), to say that Allah shared this authority is absurd.

 

However if it is meant in the way like when Isa (As) raised the dead through the permission of Allah 3za wa jal then people should know that it wasn't Isa (as) who raised the dead, it was Allah (swt). Isa (as) simply indicated to Allah that he wanted this done, and it was done by Allah alone, he had no power himself. Also Allah (swt) probably instructed isa (as) to do it as a proof upon the people, say it wasn't something he himself planned or had any power in it.

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Is waliyatul takwini the same as amr meaning dose it mean Allah gave them ability to do miracles like as example Prophet Esa (as)

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The belief is not correct, I don't know if most ulema believe in it today but I honestly doubt it.

 

The ancient scholars did in fact attack this belief as well, there are also proofs against it.

 

Authority over the universe is something khaas to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, to say that Allah shared this authority is absurd.

 

However if it is meant in the way like when Isa (as) raised the dead through the permission of Allah 3za wa jal then people should know that it wasn't Isa (as) who raised the dead, it was Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. Isa (as) simply indicated to Allah that he wanted this done, and it was done by Allah alone, he had no power himself. Also Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì probably instructed isa (as) to do it as a proof upon the people, say it wasn't something he himself planned or had any power in it.

 

Reasonable and i add : even if it means mojizat (miracles) then it's wrong to name it wilayat takweenyyat because wilayat takweenyat is for Allah alone 

 

ws

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If this is the belief of it then that is fine, however those who claim that Allah has actually invested authority in them over the universe than this is wrong, also the term is ugly.

Regarding the universe not existing if it were not for the Imams (as), then this is understood from the fact that without them the existence would be without an aim (ghaaya), due to the fact that Islam is incomplete without them, and an incomplete Islam is useless, and if religion is not established then existence would have no point.

The Imams authority that is invested in him is over the Muslims and their affairs, I would honestly doubt that the Imam (as) has power and authority over the sun and planets, under their command.

Edited by Dar'ul_Islam

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If this is the belief of it then that is fine, however those who claim that Allah has actually invested authority in them over the universe than this is wrong, also the term is ugly.

Regarding the universe not existing if it were not for the Imams (as), then this is understood from the fact that without them the existence would be without an aim (ghaaya), due to the fact that Islam is incomplete without them, and an incomplete Islam is useless, and if religion is not established then existence would have no point.

The Imams authority that is invested in him is over the Muslims and their affairs, I would honestly doubt that the Imam (as) has power and authority over the sun and planets, under their command.

salaam agha do you feel it is the same as amr?

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salaam agha do you feel it is the same as amr?

 

The word authority has a relative meaning, if I say I have authority over you it means amr, when I say I have authority over the sun it means I dictate its movements and it follows my commands, there is no other meaning for having authority over inanimate objects except by dictation of their existence, movement, shape, management, etc.

 

 

One could say however that this universal authority is only a representation of Allah's authority, and that when they wish for something to occur it is an indication from them parallel with the will of Allah directly caused by Allah, with this one could say that they have universal authority over every single atom in existence.

 

However the problem issues from if someone believes that Allah gave a power or an ability that is khass to Allah only to a servant, for example determining rizq or creating human beings, no one can claim that this power can be invested in a human being as this is khass to Allah. However, if Allah had a servant acting under Allah's will, only with their indication and by Allah's power, then creation can occur from their hands but their hands are not the cause. This can be seen when the angels have a part in the creation in the womb, the power is not from the angel's essence nor is this power rested or given to the angel's essence, but rather the angel's act under Allah's will and under his power, same thing with Isa (as) when he raised the dead.

Edited by Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz

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The word authority has a relative meaning, if I say I have authority over you it means amr, when I say I have authority over the sun it means I dictate its movements and it follows my commands, there is no other meaning for having authority over inanimate objects except by dictation of their existence, movement, shape, management, etc.

One could say however that this universal authority is only a representation of Allah's authority, and that when they wish for something to occur it is an indication from them parallel with the will of Allah directly caused by Allah, with this one could say that they have universal authority over every single atom in existence.

However the problem issues from if someone believes that Allah gave a power or an ability that is khass to Allah only to a servant, for example determining rizq or creating human beings, no one can claim that this power can be invested in a human being as this is khass to Allah. However, if Allah had a servant acting under Allah's will, only with their indication and by Allah's power, then creation can occur from their hands but their hands are not the cause. This can be seen when the angels have a part in the creation in the womb, the power is not from the angel's essence nor is this power rested or given to the angel's essence, but rather the angel's act under Allah's will and under his power, same thing with Isa (as) when he raised the dead.

Mashallah brother your very knowledgeable mashallah

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The word authority has a relative meaning, if I say I have authority over you it means amr, when I say I have authority over the sun it means I dictate its movements and it follows my commands, there is no other meaning for having authority over inanimate objects except by dictation of their existence, movement, shape, management, etc.

 

 

One could say however that this universal authority is only a representation of Allah's authority, and that when they wish for something to occur it is an indication from them parallel with the will of Allah directly caused by Allah, with this one could say that they have universal authority over every single atom in existence.

 

However the problem issues from if someone believes that Allah gave a power or an ability that is khass to Allah only to a servant, for example determining rizq or creating human beings, no one can claim that this power can be invested in a human being as this is khass to Allah. However, if Allah had a servant acting under Allah's will, only with their indication and by Allah's power, then creation can occur from their hands but their hands are not the cause. This can be seen when the angels have a part in the creation in the womb, the power is not from the angel's essence nor is this power rested or given to the angel's essence, but rather the angel's act under Allah's will and under his power, same thing with Isa (as) when he raised the dead.

http://al-shia.org/html/ara/others/index.php?mod=monazerat&id=150

 

Akhi , the Amr is for Allah before and after..

و لله الامر من قبل و من بعد

اللهم لا اعتراض.

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In hawzah we are taught that the amr is something giving to them to perform miracles by the power of God lets not be confused though that would not mean they are not following God's will and pleasure already this seems to be what I gather from my hawzah. This is why I wonder if it is the same concept as wilayatul takhwiniyyah as in the past I tended to lean towards sayyed fadlullahs view on it but what we are taught at hawzah about amr makes sense.

Edited by Maitham

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http://al-shia.org/html/ara/others/index.php?mod=monazerat&id=150

 

Akhi , the Amr is for Allah before and after..

و لله الامر من قبل و من بعد

اللهم لا اعتراض.

 

 

The amr is an indication from them, the power and ability issues from Allah swt. However the power and ability does not rest in their essence, and indeed the amr is willed by Allah for them to do it before they even do it and they are instructed as such.

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The amr is an indication from them, the power and ability issues from Allah swt. However the power and ability does not rest in their essence, and indeed the amr is willed by Allah for them to do it before they even do it and they are instructed as such.

my amr to my hand to move is by the will of Allh of by my will? is the amr for my hand to move resting in my essence or is it out of my essence?

 

"و اجعل افئدة من الناس تهوي اليهم"

 is the love in that verse resting in the essence of people or will it be by active order from Allah to love Ahlulbayt?

 

after all my brother, we are all his creations, if he willed to make some of us with power and authority over the rest of us , then it is his will only and non shall object

 

قال اني جاعل في الارض خليفة

 

so Allah declared to angels that there will be a guardian over earth, the question is, why would the angels object? they are in heaven are they not?

 

قالوا اتجعل فيها من يفسد فيها و يسفك الدماء

 

so their objection is that there will be blood shedding caused by this new guardian, again, how is this a relevant objection, they continued 

 

و نحن نسبح بحمدك و نقدس لك

they tried to show up in front of Allah that they are more worthy of the position like how Satan did ? no because they prostrate after they were shown something ..

 

lets try to re read the verse , the angels are servants of Allah, they witnessed how the human was created, the saw that his nature included many weaknesses, Then the order came to them that to this weak creature you should submit as followers and this weak creature will be your leader

 

اني جاعل في الارض خليفة

the role of khilafah was not restricted on humans, else the djins would have no objections, would have their own messengers

the khilafah extended beyond humans to reach angels and djins , this point is not hard to prove is it?

Prophet has an authority of the angel of death, the angel of death asked the prophet pardon to take his soul

prophet has authority over Jebril, Jebril has authority over the angel of mountains and the angel of mountains has authority over mountains, when the people of Ta'if hurt the prophet, Jebril cam eto prophet and told him that he angel of mountains is ready for your orders to make the mountains  crumble upon the disbelievers, prophet ordered him not to do so..

 

so Allah told the angels that I'll make this creature that you will witness its creation your leader whom you should obey , the angels objected that we should not follow a weak creature that can turn animal like and make him our leader because we should never disobey Allah

 

 

As for authority over non intelligent creatures, did not prophet Solomon had authority over animals, so did prophet Noah?

as for non living things, is it not reported in Muslims books that trees and stones greeted prophet as he passed by them ? among plenty of other stories?

 

if this is not an authority over the creation, then what is it ?

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Assalamu alaykum

 

I think they have genetic wilayah, because God has given them this power. I believe:

Wilayah is divided into Takwini (generative) and Tashri’I (legislative). 

 

Legislative wilayah means to have the authority to legislate. God s.w.t has the legislative wilayah and He orders us what to do and what not to do. A Prophet and an Imam also has the right to order people by the permission of Allah s.w.t.

 

Generative wilayah is to have authority to manipulate the whole creation. Obviously this kind of wilayah belongs to God. All beings are under the power of God. Generation, alteration and perpetuity of all beings are in God’s control. Hence, he has genetic Wilayah over all being. The Almighty Allah bestows a level of this authority upon some of His special servants. They have this ability (by God’s permission) to make changes in generative aspect of the creation. Miracles of prophets and Imams a.s are results of this generative authority. For instance, they can cure a sick person who is normally going to die or give life to a dead person. These are some examples of genetic authority of prophets and Imams a.s which have been mentioned in the Holy Quran many times.  Therefore, there is no room for being hesitant about whether or not they have this kind of wilayah.

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