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Dimethyltryptamine

Sufism

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The only Enlightened Islamic sect.

 

All other sects were created by Ego. Meaning obsession with "right and wrong" and being "better" than others.

can you explain why you think that?

 

I assume since you look confident you know a lot about shiasim and are not generalizing or judging?

 

wasalam :)

Edited by PenOfTruth

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The only Enlightened Islamic sect.

 

All other sects were created by Ego. Meaning obsession with "right and wrong" and being "better" than others.

..

 

Says the guy who is arrogant enough to post "what is the right and wrong sects"

Yupp, clearly egocentric.

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..

 

Says the guy who is arrogant enough to post "what is the right and wrong sects"

Yupp, clearly egocentric.

 

I didn't say Sufism was right or wrong. I said it was Enlightened. 

 

 

Have you taken DMT? Curious due to your username.

 

Unfortunately, I have not. However, I believe this psychedelic drug can give you direct access to God. Please note that it is found naturally in humans, other mammals, and of course many plants.

 

Have you taken it? Do you personally know anyone who has?

 

 

can you explain why you think that?

 

I assume since you look confident you know a lot about shiasim and are not generalizing or judging?

 

wasalam  :)

 

Salam,

 

I was raised Shia and eventually grew a distaste for the sect's separatist ideologies and typical theological dogma (we are better than Sunnis, they are the enemies, Nahjul Balagha's listing of sins, etc.)

Edited by Dimethyltryptamine

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Unfortunately, I have not. However, I believe this psychedelic drug can give you direct access to God. Please note that it is found naturally in humans, other mammals, and of course many plants.

Have you taken it? Do you personally know anyone who has?

Salam,

I was raised Shia and eventually grew a distaste for the sect's separatist ideologies and typical theological dogma (we are better than Sunnis, they are the enemies, Nahjul Balagha's listing of sins, etc.)

Nope have not. However the feeling of spirituality and closenss to God thru drugs is temporary and carries negative side effects. I also think it may be an illusion as part of your ego gets covered making you think your ego is gone when it is there ready to jump at you as soon as the high wears off.

I'll reply with more detail if you're interested.

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Salam,

 

I was raised Shia and eventually grew a distaste for the sect's separatist ideologies and typical theological dogma (we are better than Sunnis, they are the enemies, Nahjul Balagha's listing of sins, etc.)

 

that is like saying im divorcing my wife because she always complains. not got enough excuses.

not all shias say that stuff, it depends on who you grew up with. I know some parents who tell their kids that sunnism is all wrong and I know others who tell them to love sunnisim. having an opinion of something starting from this point will of course lead you somewhere else.

 and whats wrong with the nahjul balagha listing of sins?

wasalam :)

Edited by PenOfTruth

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Nope have not. However the feeling of spirituality and closenss to God thru drugs is temporary and carries negative side effects. I also think it may be an illusion as part of your ego gets covered making you think your ego is gone when it is there ready to jump at you as soon as the high wears off.

I'll reply with more detail if you're interested.

 

Greetings khamosh,

 

pharmakeia, or drugs, also referred to as sorceries, are spoken against in the Bible.  I believe pharmakeia (drugs) are one of the tools of the devil that is used to separate us from God's and His Holy Spirit.

 

It is an interesting study, and explains alot of the troubles in this world today.  Have you studied this also?

 

With the rise of drugs (legal and illegal) there has been an equal decline of God, belief in God, Godliness, and Holiness... a turning away from God and to these drugs.

 

Salaam,

CLynn

Edited by CLynn

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drugs, also referred to as sorceries, are spoken against in the Bible.  I believe pharmakeia (drugs) are one of the tools of the devil that is used to separate us from God's and His Holy Spirit.

'scuse me?

 

As a Pharmacy student, I can assure you that this is not the case.  Do you drink coffee?  Soda?  Tea?  Have you ever taken an antibiotic (literally means 'against life')?  Vitamins?  OTC painkillers?  Ibuprofen?  Aspirin?  Were you born in a hospital?  

 

If you answered yes to any of the above questions, you are a drug user.  :)  Everybody is a drug user.  Drugs are some of the most wonderful things in the world.  You merely need to discern the good and bad drugs.  Personally, I take drugs every single day because I would die without them.  Well, I would die if I left one of my drugs.  I take others (such as caffeine) because they help me.  But if I didn't have one of my drugs, I would literally die.  So I hope you aren't saying I am performing sorcery by taking a drug that saves my life :)

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Sufism is bad and our imams (as) warned us against it. I believe that the only sufism that is accepted is the sufism that means "zuhd" with limits of course. 

 

In shi'ism today there's so-called irfan and it's now taught as some kind of islamic science and it's wrong and dangerous , here's the opinion of grand ayatollah 

 

fayyadh about it so please watch carefully  :

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX2iy8e-oBI

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Salam. I have been into sufi gatherings for some years (even did dhikr with them loudly, I would still do today if invited), listened to their lectures and studied their teachings.. And, not only I studied sufism with their viewpoints, but also I studied it with shia viewpoint.. And, I believe, Aimmah (imams) did not approve SOME sufi beliefs THAT TIME.. But, it does not necessarily apply ALL their beliefs TODAY.. Because, if one analyses, the "sufi" beliefs that time and today is quite different, plus, even within sufi orders today, there are some differences (most sufis do not leave shariah.. They believe it is not a step but it is a necessisty, like a mount, to carry on the journey till the end.. And that there is no end in this journey.. And none lives a life of monkery..).. And brother mutazili, mashaAllah, I agree, Zuhd is surely the essence of sufi belief. And, I think, the limit you are talking about is there in order not to turn it into monkery.. And the right course you mentioned can be summarized with the mottos like, "the (Naqshbandi) order requires four types of abandonment.. leaving the world.. leaving the hereafter.. leaving the self(ishness).. leaving the (act of) leaving.." but "Zuhd is not that you don't own worldly things. It is that the world does not own you..", "Reclusion is not that you leave people to be in the presence of God.. It is that you be with God only, in the middle of crowds together with them (e.g. in congregation).." (I made up this one.. You can correct it  :P ).. (And please study this article: Outcomes of Spiritual Journey.pdf ) Anyway, such sufism is really good.. And when it unites with shia beliefs more, it is more of irfan which is the best course.. And I hope brother Dimethyltryptamine studies irfan more..

 

Ok.. Here's an amazing lecture that can be beneficial for all of us..

 

Shariah, Tariqah, Haqiqa - Esoteric Dimensions of Shariah - Sufism & Shia Irfan - Sheikh Dr. Farrokh Sekaleshfar

 

Please, please listen to it till the end  :)

 

 

 

 

 

You can find more of lectures on spirituality and spiritual lectures on the internet..

I also suggest lectures by Khalil Jaffer, like "Freeing the Butterfly Within" series and others 

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL32EF81DBD2501243

 

thanks. ma salam

Edited by HamzaTR

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I have Sufi friends and can conclude that they are the equivalents to new age hippies. They dive into the spiritual realms of Islam, but fail to stay in the boundaries of the law. Sufi's make absurd and outrageous claims that sometimes seem to have come out of the book, The Secret. and from outer space. Although, I admire their spirituality and poems, I cannot rely on them for guidance.

Edited by Cover My Face

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The only Enlightened Islamic sect.

 

All other sects were created by Ego. Meaning obsession with "right and wrong" and being "better" than others.

are you aware though it is possible to be both shia and sufi. do you know about hafiz of shirazi and syed hosein nasr both one ancient one contemporary are both shia and sufi...

 

qaderi sufis in particular love Imam Ali as. overlap in the doctrine is where they love ahlul bayt as. have you ever heard of bu ali qalandar? 

sheikh abdul qadir jilani? 

 

they even believe in ahlul bayt as's intercessory powers like i mean saying the word Ya before their names...invoking them for help. mainstream sunnis call it shirk though.

 

they believe in the imams till imam Musa Kadhim AS.

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Sufism isn't a sect, it's a discipline and worldview that is found in both Sunnism and Shi'ism. Most Sufi orders consider themselves officially one of the two with exception of those Sufi organizations who make no distinction between their Sunni and Shia members.

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Sufism isn't a sect, it's a discipline and worldview that is found in both Sunnism and Shi'ism. Most Sufi orders consider themselves officially one of the two with exception of those Sufi organizations who make no distinction between their Sunni and Shia members.

Thats a biased definition. It really depends on who you ask to define you what sufism really is. some adherents define sufism  as the inner, mystical dimension of Islam and they argue that  they are practicing ihsan (perfection of worship) as revealed by Gabriel to Muhammad: "Worship and serve Allah as you are seeing Him. Classical Sufi scholars have defined Sufism as "a science whose objective is the reparation of the heart and turning it away from all else but God. Others have defined Sufism as a philosophy of existence that pre-dates Islam and Christianity. Some Sufi orders have described sufism as the universal spirit of mysticism that is heart of all religion just as Karl W Ernest writes in his book “Sufism an introduction to the mystical tradition of Islam”. However in the end sufism differ in aqeeda with the ahlu sunnah with their doctrine of sainthood, the concept qutb, wahdat ul wujood and their own made tafsir of the Quran.

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^atleast ihsan & purifying heart by means of Allah and doing jihad al Akbar=jihad on nafs as if Allah is omni present Alhamdulillah not like Allah Ta'ala jocking but is limited to sky ! Have hands legs face etc but not aware of a person doing sin till angles make Allah aware ! Maaz'Allah wahapisss and salafeets have maked Allah S.w.t jews G-D in 200 years for their kingdom, may Allah guide their puppets

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^atleast ihsan & purifying heart by means of Allah and doing jihad al Akbar=jihad on nafs as if Allah is omni present Alhamdulillah not like Allah Ta'ala jocking but is limited to sky ! Have hands legs face etc but not aware of a person doing sin till angles make Allah aware ! Maaz'Allah wahapisss and salafeets have maked Allah S.w.t jews G-D in 200 years for their kingdom, may Allah guide their puppets

Very nice. Straw man fallacy and grammar. I can see you are a very educated guy. And have the most excellent debate skills.

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Sufism and Shia Islam can co-Exsist. Ive been looking into Sufi orders who associate with Shia the biggest one is Bektashi but I have a problem with some of there things such as 1 out of 10 beltashi women were Hijab they dont have a Mosque they have a Tekke and I think they drink a type of Rum. Otherwise it is quite nice oh and they belive Ali (PBUH) was buried in southern Albania. But it has some good philosophies on life and stuff like that and I would attend a Tekke every now and than I would also like to know more about Sufi-Shias.

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P.s. Tekkes in Turkey were closed by Ataturk in 1925. And before that there has been persecutions against shia and alevi muslims in Ottoman Empire; Please see; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_persecution_of_Alevis

And in essence Bektashi order was not something different than shia-irfani islam, however, because their religious gatherings were forbidden, the true order did not survive much and some necessities of sharia were lost and some unislamic things managed to affect their practices. And it turned into like culture rather than a revolutionary faith.

Edited by HamzaTR

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P.s. Tekkes in Turkey were closed by Ataturk in 1925. And before that there has been persecutions against shia and alevi muslims in Ottoman Empire; Please see; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_persecution_of_Alevis

And in essence Bektashi order was not something different than shia-irfani islam, however, because their religious gatherings were forbidden, the true order did not survive much and some necessities of sharia were lost and some unislamic things managed to affect their practices. And it turned into like culture rather than a revolutionary faith.

Hmmm... I see well thanks for the info.

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Thats a biased definition. It really depends on who you ask to define you what sufism really is. some adherents define sufism as the inner, mystical dimension of Islam and they argue that they are practicing ihsan (perfection of worship) as revealed by Gabriel to Muhammad: "Worship and serve Allah as you are seeing Him. Classical Sufi scholars have defined Sufism as "a science whose objective is the reparation of the heart and turning it away from all else but God. Others have defined Sufism as a philosophy of existence that pre-dates Islam and Christianity. Some Sufi orders have described sufism as the universal spirit of mysticism that is heart of all religion just as Karl W Ernest writes in his book “Sufism an introduction to the mystical tradition of Islam”. However in the end sufism differ in aqeeda with the ahlu sunnah with their doctrine of sainthood, the concept qutb, wahdat ul wujood and their own made tafsir of the Quran.

I am Sufi and am ahle sunnah and your above rant is bs

I don't know where your head is buried but......Sufis ARE ahle sunnah THE WAHABBIES are NOT and let's not get involved in the ahlu sunnah are the majority unfortunately for you wahabism is SMALL reason being it has no spirituality and no one wants to follow a new ideology that never existed try reading this

I would first observe that Sufis are present, persistently, in every Muslim population, including those where they were persecuted the longest: Saudi Arabia. Although the Saudi kingdom prohibited and punished possession of Sufi books and the practice of Sufi observances, the country always possessed a thriving Sufi underground with access to the heights of power. Before his elevation to the throne in 2005, then-Saudi Crown Prince, and now King Abdullah, who favored Sufis, gained them the right to hold zikr (remembrance of God by vocal or silent chanting, singing and bodily movements) in their homes.

In some countries Sufism is praised as an item of a proud heritage while it is repressed in daily life. The most obvious such example is that of Iran. The clerical regime established by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini could not act easily against Sufis, since so many famous Sufis -- such as Jalaladdin Rumi, the 13th century author believed by many to be, currently, the most widely read poet in the West -- wrote in Persian, and Sufi texts became the national literature of the Iranians.

But while the Tehran clerics honor the Sufis of the past, they repress Sufis in the present. Sufis have most often functioned as an alternative to clerical authority in Islam, and widely represented Iranian Sufi bodies like the Nimatullahi-Gonabadi dervish order and the "hidden," Kurdish-speaking Ahl-e Haqq or "people of truth" have sustained a difficult challenge to the Iranian authorities. Iranian Sufis have been arrested and disappeared into the obscurity of the prisons, with some doubtless dealt a fatal destiny.

As certain Islamic countries are ambivalent about Sufism, in other Muslim societies we see variations in the intensity of Sufi "activism." Analyzing Islamic Sufism, I have generally divided Muslim territories between those in which Sufism has a deep but informal influence in local Islam, in contrast with those where it has a well-established institutional presence.

In the great Eurasian expanses, Islam is widely permeated by Sufi teachings and customs. From my travels, observation and participation in Muslim life, I have seen and experienced that Sufi-oriented Islam is prevalent among Slavic and Russian Turkic Muslims, dominant in Central Asia, and widely-represented in South Asia and in Southeast Asia. Across this heartland, Sufi authors are studied and throngs of pilgrims visit Sufi shrines or otherwise commemorate the lives of Sufi saints.

Elsewhere the spiritual heritage is maintained by powerful, organized orders, sometimes called "brotherhoods" although they typically include female disciples. These are prominent in North Africa, French-speaking West Africa, East Africa, the Albanian lands, plus Syria, Iraq, Kurdistan and Iran.

In Turkey, most Muslims are Sufi either by identification with the normative Sunnism subsidized by the state, which exalted Sufis and places the works of Rumi in all Turkish mosques, or by participation in Sufi orders as well as widespread, part-time study circles and other voluntary communities that teach an esoteric Islam. Others are involved in more singular phenomena like the Turkish-Kurdish, Shia-Sufi-shamanist Alevi movement. As a different variant in the Sufi continuum, Indonesia possesses a Sufi civic movement of national scope -- the Nahdatul Ulama (NU) organization. Returning to South Asia, organized Sufism there is enacted with a backdrop of a broader, "cultural" Sufism and is under bloody attack by RADICALS.

RADICALS........the bedfellows of wahabies your PALS

Here is wahabism for ya in a nutshell

Wahhabi Islam is a movement within Islam that was founded in the 18th century CE by Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab in central Arabia. It emphasizes the oneness and uniqueness of God (tawhid) and advocates a return to the rituals and practices of what the movement sees as the original teachings of Islam. The Wahhabis claim the majority of Muslims have abandoned faith in One God and have perverted the faith through innovations (bid'a). They thus reject the practices or innovations that they see as polytheistic, such as venerating saints and visiting shrines and tombs. Wahhabi doctrine teaches a literal belief and interpretation of the sacred texts and calls for the establishment of a unified, truly Muslim state determined by Islamic law. They forbid any luxury in life and reject any cultural importation from other societies. They claim that all others who do not accept their position are heretics, especially Shi'a Muslims. Essential to the history of Wahhabi Islam is its partnership with the Sa'ud family in 1744, an alliance that allowed for the territorial expansion throughout most of the Arabian Peninsula including the capture of Karbala (a Shi'ite holy city), Mecca, and Medina. In 1932 the establishment of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia gave religious and political control of the region to the Wahhabis, including the introduction of the mutawwi'un, a form of private religious police that monitors both public and private conformity to Islam.

Hahahaha they forbid ANY LUXURY IN LIFE now that is funny especially the Saudi kings whom you are A SLAVE whom are kings of WAHABITES and NOT SUFIS so does that mean the kings are heretics? Trust me they live in luxury their economy made a staggering 927 billion dollars last year!!!

927 bill!!!

Cultural importation? What? Building huge 15 billion dollar clock towers? We Muslim Arabs never built a CLOCK never mind towers that assist it so isn't this heretical?

Astaghfirullah you are looking down on Kaaba like you would your shoes this is how you lot respect Allah's house?

Hypocrisy at its finest but then that's wahabism for you

We all know whom we would follow the simple the the hungry fakir who is more close to Allah and relies on His sustenance than......big fat over fed wahabites and their luxuries who sell OVERPRICED petroleum for PROFIT who are more close to the devil

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The only Enlightened Islamic sect.

 

All other sects were created by Ego. Meaning obsession with "right and wrong" and being "better" than others.

Brother. That's not something you should say about all other sects. And Sufism isn't exactly a sect anyway, but the inner/mystical tradition of Islam (although many tariqa are so different from other muslims that they might as well be sects)

 

I disagree with some other sects of Islam. But just saying they're all this or that is just generalizing. 

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Sufism is not a sect. It's Islamic Mysticism. A school of thought transcending sectarianism. Of course, many of the Orders can be described as movements with their own beliefs. But sectarianism doesn't have much to do with it.

 

Although we might as well be a sect given how differently most Sufis think than other Muslims

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