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In the Name of God بسم الله

About Ya Ali (As) Madad

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Ya Allah madad. No, I am not a wahabi....

salam Alaikum:   bismillah       Quran Summary (no contradictions):     و إ ذا سألك عبادي عني فإني قريب أجيب دعوة الداع إذا دعان فليستجيبوا لي وليؤمنوا بي لعلهم يرشدون  2:186   إنك سميع الدعاء  3:38  

lanatualah alai wahabion

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Forgive me for using the wrong term.

You are forgiven bruddaah :P I'm kidding, no need to apologise Habibbi!

That's a good question. Shias tend to have an obsession with Imām Ali [a] more than any other member of the Ahl al-Bayt [a] so perhaps that is why.

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Still, why is it the most said?

I have nothing against it, and say it myself.

 

I am just wondering if there is a hadith or anything on the status of Ali and his help


You are forgiven bruddaah :P I'm kidding, no need to apologise Habibbi!

That's a good question. Shias tend to have an obsession with Imām Ali [a] more than any other member of the Ahl al-Bayt [a] so perhaps that is why.

Well Imam Ali (as) is the Gate of knowledge, the Lion of Allah and of course Waliyyullah, Hajuttulah but most exclusivly Amir ul Momineen 

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Not true, Shia say it about all Masomeen. For example: ya Hussain madad, or ya Zahra(a) madad, even thou it is established with Imam Ali(a), as he had the most enemies, and has till today, both Muslims and non-Muslims and he has killed the most non-believers and hypocrites alike. That's why he had and has the most enemies and that's why his name remains unique. Imam Hussain(a) for example said that even if he had 100 sons, he would call them all Ali and therefore called all his sons Ali. Imam Ali(a) represents all the other Ma'someen and the Quran. If you hear the name of Imam Ali(a) then you know it's true Islam.

Edited by Shiabro
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Madad is asked from Allah alone , this form of du'a can only be addressed to the creator , look! if it means in the sense of intercession it's ok but i am against it being used because it makes people thing that you are doing dua to other than Allah and it might lead the ignorant to misunderstand it and misuse it .

 

the prophet (saww) and ali(as) and the rest of ahlbait (as) can only help you through intercession while they are in an other dimension.

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asSalaam

 

O Ali help. if i'm correct. This is asking for direct help from Ali and should be considered shirk.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Also I would like to know whether there is a continuation of this chanting or does it just stop abruptly with "ya Ali madad"

 

Regards

Soloman

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asSalaam

 

O Ali help. if i'm correct. This is asking for direct help from Ali and should be considered shirk.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Also I would like to know whether there is a continuation of this chanting or does it just stop abruptly with "ya Ali madad"

 

Regards

Soloman

 

yes it's shirk unfortunately if done this way (you mentioned) 

 

unfortunately most people say it and stop there which makes things really worse for us 

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Which one of the ones coming here accusing people who say "Ya Ali" as a Wasila(God accepts all prayers through the Prophet and his pure family) of Shirk goes to a Wahabi site and calls them Mushrik.

We have the intelligent Mutazili on here, why wouldn't he go and argue with Salafis and Wahabis on their site about what Shirk is? Because he would be kicked out immediately.

Is this Shirk or not:

God's attributes according to Wahabis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpAuRQl55Pg

Allah has hands and eyes according to Wahabi teaching:

May God prolong this Wahabi's life for exposing the true Shirk of Wahabis who accuse others of Shirk but commit it multiple times.

 

And finally for all those who want to laugh at Shirk-accusations by the more intelligent guys(Wahabis and their followers):

 

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Are you serious Fuan? This is the first post from that link

 

Benefits of NADE Ali (a.s)

bismillah.gifsalam.gif

Call Ali, He is able to bring about the extraordinary.
You will find him an effective supporter in all calamities.

All worries and sorrows will soon disappear on account of
your authority,
O Ali, O Ali, O Ali....

 

Although I find it not correct, I understand the concept of Shia intercession which calls upon Allah through imams and the prophet. The true shia version is not shirk. But this...nowhere in that poem is the word Allah to be found, it's not even implied. The very first sentence promotes the reliance on Ali - who brings about the extroardinary without the permission of Allah(according to that poem/dua) - and continues to do so...this is worship and definite shirk.

 

 

Let me repeat myself. I don't need a sect to represent my religion (Islam) and I've never disguised myself as a Shia to "mislead" people. Labeling others wahabi doesn't make your statement any stronger or closer to truth.

 

@Shiabro We already know wahabis are scum and shouldn't be compared, we're talking about the calling upon a human being directly. Nothing's wrong with Ya Ali if you follow it up with a reference to Allah.

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salam

 

bismilah

 

i was also shocked by 

 

 

 

Call Ali, He is able to bring about the extraordinary.
You will find him an effective supporter in all calamities.

All worries and sorrows will soon disappear on account of
your authority,
O Ali, O Ali, O Ali.

 

 

and refuse to even read further.

 

we are to call Allah for help, the one in Authority of everything, such as http://quran.com/1/5

 

saying ya Ali   is not really calling him for help. or asking Allah to send His peace and blessings upon him neither.

 

also saying ya Ali does not mean one sees him as having authority over everything, or ability to resolve everything. 

 

saying   ya Ali does not mean we ignore all the clear verses in the quran about asking only Allah for help, the more the better.

 

and let's avoid slandering calling each other names like "wahabi" or "pretenders" just because we have different opinions in good akhlaq in sha Allah.

 

thanks

 

fi aman ilah

 

اللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وآلِ مُحَمَّدٍ وعَجِّلْ فَرَجَهُمْ

 

(wasalam)

Edited by peace seeker
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Not shirk.

 

Don't let those wahhabi's who pretend to be shia on this forum sway you.

 

Sorry,  but this dua is shirk. 

 

Call Ali, He is able to bring about the extraordinary.

You will find him an effective supporter in all calamities.

All worries and sorrows will soon disappear on account of

your authority,

O Ali, O Ali, O Ali.

 

 

Wallahi. I have no words..

 

Say: Call upon Allah or call upon, the Beneficent Allah; whichever you call upon, He has the best names; and do not utter your prayer with a very raised voice nor be silent with regard to it, and seek a way between these. [17:110]

 

And that the mosques are Allah's, therefore call not upon any one with Allah:

And that when the servant of Allah stood up calling upon Him, they wellnigh crowded him (to death).

Say: I only call upon my Lord, and I do not associate any one with Him.

Say: I do not control for you evil or good.

Say: Surely no one can protect me against Allah, nor can I find besides Him any place of refuge:

(It is) only a delivering (of communications) from Allah and His messages; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger surely he shall have the fire of hell to abide therein for a long time. [72:18-23]

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234998451-calling-on-other-than-Allah-in-the-quran/

 

 

 

Duas From The Holy Quran

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/235015396-duas-from-the-holy-quran/

Edited by Nima
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Here is the full dua (It's kind of confusing because it seems to contradict itself):

 

Call Ali, who is Manifestor of wonders, Thou shall surely find him helper in your difficulties, all grief and sorrow shall be removed. I submit my temporal wishes to Thee on whom I trust and always referred Thee to bestow fulfillment of temporal wishes. O! Having Thee bestowed support, O! Thee Appointed Wali, All grief and Sorrows will disappear, By Thee by Thy tremendousness O! Lord, By Thee by Thy Apostleship O! Muhammad, - Blessings of Thee on Thy Apostle & descendants, By Thee by Thy granted Power & Authority of Wail, O! Ali, O Ali, O! Ali Help! O! Ali for Thee granted eternal hidden grants to you, Help! Allah the Almighty is Supreme, Allah the Almighty is supreme, Allah the Almighty is supreme, I am relieved from the enmity of (your) enemies. Thee is Eternal, Absolute; I have trust in Thee, By that truth, Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech help. O! Helper of the Seekers of help!, O! Ali help!, O! Mighty all winner over enemies, O! Eternal Leaders of the Leaders, O! Manifestor of Wonders, O! The Chosen one, O! Mighty and Powerful, O! Mighty, Valiant, Chivalrous Able oppressor of antagonists Might & Valour is yours, O! Powerful combater, You are mighty and Irresistible, Such a Powerful & Strong avenger that none is capable to resist nor keeps power to revenge I submit my temporal wishes to Thee, The supreme, No doubt Thy is All Knowing O! People, There is no God except Allah The Supreme, The Merciful, The Beneficent O! Allah, Thy is sufficient, The best Governor, The best Master, The best Helper. O! Helper of seekers of help and bereft, O! The Merciful helper of poor, Come for Help! O! Ali Help! O! Ali Help! , O! Thee by Thy Mercy, by Thy Favour, by Thy Goodness of rewarding, (Help) O! Thee The Merciful and The Most Gracious.

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great collection mashallah

 

yes Allah is close to us and we need to learn how to do du'a.

 

still tawassol is alright as a form of du'a , sahabah used to go to the holy prophet(saww) to pray for them! heck! we ask our mothers to pray for us ! 

 

tawassol is accepted by most of the ummah since the dawn of islam but tawassol is different from doing du'a to people which is shirk ( a word hated by many 

 

unfortunately)

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Here is the full dua (It's kind of confusing because it seems to contradict itself):

That's because it's a total fabrication. Does it honestly make sense that the man who came to bring tawheed and purify Arabia from Polytheism would promote this idea himself? I'd like to think most Shias would agree and say 'no'. However, this appears to not be the case.

Edited by Ali Musaaa :)
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That's because it's a total fabrication. Does it honestly make sense that the man who came to bring tawheed and purify Arabia from Polytheism would promote this idea himself? I'd like to think most Shias would agree and say 'no'. However, this appears to not be the case.

asSalaam

 

I agree it makes no sense.

 

But if that is a fabrication then what is the genuine dua or is there none.

 

Soloman

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(bismillah)

(salam)

 

Another derailed thread~

 

I put that link in my post for a reason - that thread had the same thing that is coming up here and it was dealt with. This has been discussed over and over again on this forum and I really think the mods should just make 1 thread with all of the views of the scholars and hadith that show the REAL SHIA VIEW, and pin the thread.

 

- @Wing: I have no problems with Sunni Muslims like yourself who openly admit that they are Sunni and they state their views. You are more than welcome and I applaud you for doing so. However there have been MANY other people who come to this forum without clean intentions, pretend to be something they're not and seek only to make mischief. Those are the people I am referring to, and I will continue to do so. I should tell you however, that there are even other Sunni Muslims who do as we Shia do and ask for help directly from the Prophet and his family (saw). It is only recently that this has become a taboo thing among a growing majority, and that is on account of the Wahhabi's and their misguided views. Here is an example of another Sunni Muslim like yourself, who came to the forum, and spoke his beliefs in the same manner as the Shia:

 

(wasalam)
Yeah, sounds rigid. Because we also say Ya Rasulullah madad.

 

- @peace seeker: There are many threads already on the forum about the topic, please read them. Also, my post had less to do with name calling and slander, than it had to do with the truth, (please read above). Akhlaq is one thing, making clear the truth- that there are people on this forum with alternate motives- is another. And I will continue to call them out in order to make their presence clear to the innocent readers. You can do as you please.

 

- @Nima: You are free to have your views. But as a Sunni you shouldn't be preaching about what is and what isn't a Shia view. If you believe it's shirk- fine. Do so in the Shia / Sunni forum, not here where innocent Shia come to the forum thinking that everyone else here is a Shia.

 

- @mutazili(wasil): Mutazili indeed. You are not the first to try what you are doing, there have been many, and there will be many after you. It's quite obvious what you are.

 

- The Shia view is: - Making dua to Allah directly (all Shia do), making tawassul with Ahlul Bayt (all Shia do), AND asking Ahlul Bayt directly (all Shia do). IF you don't want to believe this, then that is YOUR belief, NOT ours. If you don't want to believe this, then either you are not a Shia, or you are a Shia with an incomplete understanding-- and we all pray for an increase in your knowledge, understanding, and yaqeen.

 

- Hadith here (thank you Muhibb-ali), and here, and millions of threads if you search....

 

- Ayatullah Sistani (ha): Question : Is it right to say ya Ali madad? Answer : There is no objection in it.

 

(wasalam)

Edited by Fuan
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people are misunderstanding me. ya ali(AS) or ya mohamed (saww) is not shirk only if it meant in way of tawassol , i said this already. but is it really used today in way of tawassol or is it  du'a ? this is the issue. IF  it is dua to ali (as) or mohamed (saww) then it is shirk without a doubt 

Edited by mutazili(wasil)
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(bismillah)

(salam)

 

 

- @peace seeker: There are many threads already on the forum about the topic, please read them. Also, my post had less to do with name calling and slander, than it had to do with the truth, (please read above). Akhlaq is one thing, making clear the truth- that there are people on this forum with alternate motives- is another. And I will continue to call them out in order to make their presence clear to the innocent readers. You can do as you please.

 

 

 

bismilah

 

(wasalam)

 

it is wrong to call people names that way, and i ask you to refrain from it. prove people wrong with proof if you can, but offending people is not right. like for instance you seem to be sure that brother Ali Musaaa :) is a Wahabi. what if he is not? then you are guilty of slander, and as imam Ali said: "slander destroys faith". logically speaking after slandering somebody the slanderer will not be able to understand what is right and wrong, including this important issue.

 

 

here are verses that support Ali Musaaa :) and my opinion for instance:

 

calling upon:

 

Say, "Have you considered: if there came to you the punishment of Allah or there came to you the Hour - is it other than Allah you would invoke, if you should be truthful?" 6:40

 

No, it is Him [alone] you would invoke, and He would remove that for which you invoked Him if He willed, and you would forget what you associate [with Him]. 6:41

 

Indeed, those you [polytheists] call upon besides Allah are servants like you. So call upon them and let them respond to you, if you should be truthful. 7:194

 

And those you call upon besides Him are unable to help you, nor can they help themselves." 7:197

 

Say, "Invoke those you have claimed [as gods] besides Him, for they do not possess the [ability for] removal of adversity from you or [for its] transfer [to someone else]." 17:56

 

Those whom they invoke seek means of access to their Lord, [striving as to] which of them would be nearest, and they hope for His mercy and fear His punishment. Indeed, the punishment of your Lord is ever feared. 17:57

 

And it will be said, "Invoke your 'partners' " and they will invoke them; but they will not respond to them, and they will see the punishment. If only they had followed guidance! 28:64

 

Say, "Invoke those you claim besides Allah ." They do not possess an atom's weight [of ability] in the heavens or on the earth, and they do not have therein any partnership [with Him], nor is there for Him from among them any assistant. 34:22

 

He causes the night to enter the day, and He causes the day to enter the night and has subjected the sun and the moon - each running for a specified term. That is Allah , your Lord; to Him belongs sovereignty. And those whom you invoke other than Him do not possess [as much as] the membrane of a date seed. 35:13

 

If you invoke them, they do not hear your supplication; and if they heard, they would not respond to you. And on the Day of Resurrection they will deny your association. And none can inform you like [one] Acquainted [with all matters]. 35:14

 

So invoke Allah , [being] sincere to Him in religion, although the disbelievers dislike it. 40:14

 

 

 

intercession:

 

 

None will have [power of] intercession except he who had taken from the Most Merciful a covenant. 19:87

 

 And intercession does not benefit with Him except for one whom He permits. [And those wait] until, when terror is removed from their hearts, they will say [to one another], "What has your Lord said?" They will say, "The truth." And He is the Most High, the Grand. 34:23

 

39:44 Say, "To Allah belongs [the right to allow] intercession entirely. To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. Then to Him you will be returned."

 

 

 

... all ayat in the quran are very clear about topic of "calling upon", "seeking help", "invoking", etc. and all of them point that calling upon any slave of Allah instead of Allah is shirq.

 

 

for instance the supposed hadith: 

 

Call Ali, He is able to bring about the extraordinary.

You will find him an effective supporter in all calamities.

 

is in direct contradiction to:

 

 

 

Say, "Have you considered: if there came to you the punishment of Allah or there came to you the Hour - is it other than Allah you would invoke, if you should be truthful?" 6:40

 

No, it is Him [alone] you would invoke, and He would remove that for which you invoked Him if He willed, and you would forget what you associate [with Him]. 6:41

 

 

 

here a verse talking about calling upon servants and slaves of Allah such as imam ali:

 

 

Indeed, those you call upon besides Allah are servants like you. So call upon them and let them respond to you, if you should be truthful. 7:194

 

 

Those whom they invoke seek means of access to their Lord, [striving as to] which of them would be nearest, and they hope for His mercy and fear His punishment. Indeed, the punishment of your Lord is ever feared. 17:57

 

 

the vast majority of ahadeeth show us that all the masumeen ask us to call only upon Allah, and also show how they call upon Allah only. there are always some fabricated hadiths that the shaytan injected to deceive people away from tawheed.

 

fact is that if hadiths go against the quran, they are to be discarded.

 

 

now the ONLY verse used to support the false polytheism of praying to others than Allah, is the verse of "seek means of closeness to Allah". this does not talk about "calling upon", "asking for help", "praying to", "making duas to", so this does NOT invalidate all the other clear ayat that make it very clear that we are only to pray to Allah.

 

and at least 99% of hadiths also support this!

 

 

you can keep on praying and apply It is You we worship and You we ask for help. 1:5 to  others than Allah against Allah's order to us, but the consequences you will not be able to control. according to Quran the consequences of this are also clear.

 

 

اللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وآلِ مُحَمَّدٍ وعَجِّلْ فَرَجَهُمْ

 

fi aman ilah

 

(wasalam)

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Here is a good explanation of Ya Ali (as) Madad

 

 

The Meaning of YA ALI (AS) MADAD A few things should be made clear upon you:

1. Allah (SWT) has bestowed the highest status upon: the Holy Prophet of Islam, all other Prophets (Peace Be Upon Them), Imam Ali (AS), and the rest of the infallibles (AS). Allah (SWT) has bestowed upon them the highest jurisdictions and in this there is no doubt amongst any of the Shia and there should not be any doubt. The details of these jurisdictions and explanations of the fixing of the boundaries are above the intellectual understanding of any normal person. However, the infallibles (AS) in some of the traditions have indicated towards this meaning, so in the truth of the Ahlul Bait (AS), we should not get entangled in disbelief or claims of deficiency and defectiveness of the Ahlul Bait (AS), and neither in the greatness (nature, power) of Allah (SWT) Almighty. We should not unnecessarily transgress and pass the prescribed limits.

2. Those personalities (entities) which we have mentioned above are the selected people of Allah (SWT). That honor which they have obtained has only been obtained with the devotion of Allah (SWT).

3. Allah (SWT) has kept some of the jurisdictions in His hand and has not consigned these to anybody else other than Himself. In this, there is life and death, creation and demission, and rizq.

4. If somebody himself says that those things which have been mentioned before are not in the hands of Allah (SWT), then he implies that we have retired Allah (SWT) Almighty (Astagh Firullah). One should remember that the creator of these personalities (entities) is only Him. The creator of the master of the universe Imam Ali (AS) and the creator of the milk in the chest of his blessed and purified mother was only Allah (SWT) Almighty. May it be known that Allah (SWT) has never retired nor shall He ever retire!

5. Allah (SWT) has ordered us that we seek our needs from the aforementioned entities, that we ask for our needs from Him, and that we give for the sake of those infallibles. When we all say YA ALI (AS) MADAD, this does not proclaim the belief of any Muslim that Allah (SWT) has retired (Astagh Firullah) or that Allah (SWT) has become old (Al Ayaazo Billah) or that someone has deprived Allah (SWT) from him His jurisdictions through elections or an army revolution (Astagh Firullah) or that someone has cheated Allah (SWT) (Astagh Firullah) or that someone has deceived Allah (SWT) and snatched from Him His jurisdictions (Al Ayaazo Billah). The essence of Allah (SWT) and any of His attributes to have any kind of alteration in this belief is equal and parallel to Kufr (disbelief). We give for the sake of the infallibles and ask for Dua (prayers); this is the meaning of YA ALI (AS) MADAD. When you ask for help from anybody, you hope that he helps and supports you in accordance to one’s own power. Allah (SWT) Almighty has given the Prophet of Allah (SWT), Janab-e-Zahra (SA), and all of the infallibles the power of victory to support His Shia. This power is in their intercession, in which they do dua (prayer) for all of their Shia and they ask forgiveness for them and they fulfill the requirement from Allah (SWT). This is the meaning of YA ALI (AS) MADAD.

The Office of The Grand Ayatollah Al Uzma Sheikh Basheer Hussain Najafi

Najaf e Ashraf

Iraq

http://www.alnajafi.org/questions-and-answers/41-aqeedah/55-question-on-ya-ali-madad.html

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the master of the universe Imam Ali  (as)

 

:no:

 

ya Malik ya Rabb el alameen

 

what baseless dangerous statement!!  :mellow:

 

la hawla walaqowata ila bilah "There is no might nor power except in Allah."

 

Muhammad is not but a messenger. 3:144

 

 

 

 

Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì has ordered us that we seek our needs from the aforementioned entities, that we ask for our needs from Him, and that we give for the sake of those infallibles.

 

no evidence given for this horrible statement  :realangery: (see actual evidence in my previous post including It is You we worship and You (Allah) we ask for help.  1:5 )

 

let us not mix the human ahl bayt attributes of leadership and other religious duties, with names and attributes of Allah.

 

.. Allah is the Master of the Universe, and if you look at the ayat i posted on my previous post you'll see that Allah has ordered us to "nestaeen" (seeking our needs) from Allah only.

 

 

 

This power is in their intercession,

 

.. again the verses of the quran show clearly that all intercession is by Allah's command purely. 

 

more on waseelah .. 

 

Allah has not appointed [such innovations as] bahirah or sa'ibah or wasilah or ham. But those who disbelieve invent falsehood about Allah , and most of them do not reason. 5:103

 

 

 

 

Say, "Invoke those you have claimed [as gods] besides Him, for they do not possess the [ability for] removal of adversity from you or [for its] transfer [to someone else]." 17:56

 

Those whom they invoke seek means (waseela) of access to their Lord, [striving as to] which of them would be nearest, and they hope for His mercy and fear His punishment. Indeed, the punishment of your Lord is ever feared. 17:57

 

therefore the only legal means of seeking waseela is by asking Allah for it directly and only Allah.

 

let me mention again that the previous post has no evidence included in it

 

 

so even if you mention the ONLY evidence that people use for excusing dua to any other than Allah, there are 2 verses that are against it (namely "seeking means" or "waseela" ). plus the many many other ayat listed in my previous post. it's a clear case masha Allah!

 

 

did imam ali say "Ya muhamad madad"?

 

did imam hassan and imam hussain say "Ya ali madad?"

 

 

no 

 

 

fi aman ilah 

 

 

 

اللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وآلِ مُحَمَّدٍ وعَجِّلْ فَرَجَهُمْ

 

fi aman ilah

 

(wasalam)

Edited by peace seeker
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Brother, I enjoyed how you  totally ignorred eveything and just copied what you wished out of context.

 

Look, we won't agree. And as you can go to page 1 and see, I created this thread for something else. Not to argue on the permissability of Ya Ali Madad.

 

Salam

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