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Hijab In Christianity & Islam

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I am aware that you probably hold the belief that Muhammad (pbuh) copied parts of the Quran from the Bible? 

 

Placid my friend

 

The Muslim belief is that not one syllable of the Quran comes from our Prophet.

 

Every single word is from God.

 

The Prophet merely relayed what he received.

 

Similarities with other scriptures do not necessarily imply a COPY & PASTE approach. 

 

Regards

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Placid my friend

 

The Muslim belief is that not one syllable of the Quran comes from our Prophet.

 

Every single word is from God.

 

The Prophet merely relayed what he received.

 

Similarities with other scriptures do not necessarily imply a COPY & PASTE approach. 

 

Regards

Maybe, if he confirms this, we can start a thread on it.

Edited by BuggyLemon

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Hi Lemon,

 

There was no offense in saying the Scriptures have been altered --- That is the general teaching of Islam, is it not? --- Pretty well every Poster has said the same, and many of them quite strongly. --- No need to feel you said something wrong.

--- I thought you might have been offended by the strong things I said. --- (So let’s “not be offended” with whatever we say to each other.)

 

This verse tells us what our attitude should be toward all Scripture, as it says in Surah 18:

27 And recite (and teach) what has been revealed to thee of the Book of thy Lord: none can change His Words, and none wilt thou find as a refuge other than Him.

The simple reason why some branches of Islam reject the Gospel is because ‘Gospel’ means ‘Good News,’ --- and the ‘Good News’ is that God sent Jesus as a Savior for mankind. He is called Messiah some 8 times in the Quran.

 --- Christians believe in God and follow Jesus, thus ‘reciting and teaching what has been revealed of the Book’ --- which is the Gospel Message, and in believing it, we accept Jesus as our Savior.

 

--- I have heard Muslims say, “They can save themselves by their ‘good works.’

So, If this is their faith, I have no argument with them because “There is to be no compulsion in religion,” --- or what people believe, --- However, when they have to discredit Jesus and say the Gospel Message is altered or distorted, --- which came 600 years before Islam   --- then I kind of defend that position by saying the Bible has not been altered, --- and then give verses in the Quran which prove that Gabriel ‘confirmed’ the former Scriptures as true.

It says some 60 times in the Quran --- “Believe and do good works”  --- without “believing and surrendering to God to do ‘His Good Works,’ --- the effort we put in without faith are just ‘good works.’

 

--- No, the Quran was not ‘copied and pasted,’ --- but the same angel Gabriel that appeared to Zechariah and Mary in Luke 1, also revealing accounts of the Gospel, and the revelations in Surahs, or messages to Muhammad. --- Let’s compare these:

 

The account of the birth of John the Baptist is given in Luke 1:5-25,

The same account is given in the very early Meccan Surah 19:2-15

--- And later revealed in Surah 3:38-41.

 

Again the birth of Jesus is recorded in Luke 1:26-38.

The same account is given in Surah 19:16-22  and 27-36.

--- Also later revealed in Surah 3:45-48

 

Who was Gabriel? --- It says this in Luke 1:

18 And Zacharias said to the angel, “How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is well advanced in years.”

19 And the angel answered and said to him, “I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and was sent to speak to you and bring you these glad tidings.”

--- And it says of Elizabeth who was barren, and beyond the age of childbearing, in Surah 21:

89 And Zachariah, when he cried unto his Lord: My Lord! Leave me not childless, though Thou art the Best of inheritors.

90 Then We heard his prayer, and bestowed upon him John, and adjusted his wife (to bear a child) for him. Lo! they used to vie one with the other in good deeds, and they cried unto Us in longing and in fear, and were submissive unto Us.

91 (About Mary) And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a Sign for all peoples.

 

Compare that to this verse in Luke 1:

35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

--- (Notice it said He, Jesus, would be CALLED the Son of God, --- it doesn’t say He was God.)

Then compare that to Surah 3:

45 Behold! the angel said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God;

 

And compare this to John 1:

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

(Oops, a Bible and Quran study) --- Just so you know, --- I believe it all, but you don’t have to if you don’t want to. --- Faith has to be personal.

 

Placid

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The simple reason why some branches of Islam reject the Gospel is because ‘Gospel’ means ‘Good News,’ --- and the ‘Good News’ is that God sent Jesus as a Savior for mankind. He is called Messiah some 8 times in the Quran.

 

Hi Placid

 

Would you kindly tell us what you understand by the term 'Savior' ?

 

Who will Jesus save?

 

Will he save everyone who believes in him to be the savior?

 

Or will he save only a selected list?

 

Will he also save Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, atheists, and others who do not believe in him?  

 

Please support your answers with relevant verses from the NT.  Thanks.

45 Behold! the angel said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God;

 

And compare this to John 1:

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

So ?

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Hi Peace,

 

Quote from Post 111:

Would you kindly tell us what you understand by the term 'Savior' ?

Who will Jesus save?

Will he save everyone who believes in him to be the savior?

Or will he save only a selected list?

Will he also save Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, atheists, and others who do not believe in him?  

Please support your answers with relevant verses from the NT.  Thanks.

 

Response: --- First I want to say that this is the forum for discussion between Muslims, Christians and Jews. --- So when I give answers, I don’t have any hidden agenda, but simply say what the Scripture says.

--- I have been invited more than once to become a Muslim, but no, it is not about ‘becoming’ anything. --- It is about ‘believing in God.’

For a Muslim, it is, ‘believing in God as you know Him,’ and doing what you are required to do.

--- I have hoped for more details into Muslim Faith and worship, --- and BuggyLemon has given great insight into prayers and actions in Islam, so I keep learning. --- I am a Bible student, and when I read the same thing in the Quran as in the New Testament, I conclude that it comes from the same source, --- That is God.

 

*** 1. Would you kindly tell us what you understand by the term 'Savior' ?

Answer: --- When Jesus was conceived in Mary, an angel spoke to Joseph to whom she was engaged and said in Matthew 1:

20 An angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.” (Jesus means Savior)

--- While the word Savior is not used in the Quran. The word salvation is. Surah 5:

119   God will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are gardens, with rivers flowing beneath, - their eternal Home: God is well-pleased with them, and they with God: That is the great salvation, (the fulfilment of all desires).

Jesus was born of Mary, but was indwelt by the Word that came down from heaven, and He is the Savior, Messiah, Redeemer, and ultimate Sacrifice for sin.

 

*** 2. Who will Jesus save?

Answer: --- Hebrews 7:25 ”Therefore He (Jesus) is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.”

--- When Jesus was resurrected, he was taken up to the throne of God as it says in Surah 3:55. --- And for assurance to believers, it says in John 5:

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him (God) who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

 

*** 3.   Will he save everyone who believes in him to be the savior?

Or will he save only a selected list?

Answer: --- Yes, “Whosoever will, may come.” --- It says in John 6:

36 “But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me ‘I will by no means cast out.’

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

--- The way to know Jesus, is to read the Gospels, to learn who He was, what He did. --- His message was “Love God” and “Love your neighbor as yourself.”  We learn to Love God through Him. --- Then when we develop Faith in God and learn obedience to the teaching of Christ. --- It still requires our commitment by the same ‘Surrender of our will unto God’s will’ --- and the same ‘struggle’ (personal Jihad, the original meaning of the word), to be surrendered to do God’s will and not our own.

--- Then we can be called Disciples, --- meaning “Disciplined ones.”  

 

*** 4. Will he also save Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, atheists, and others who do not believe in him?  

Answer: --- Jesus only saves sinners who repent.

Anyone who relies on anything but God’s Grace to save them, cannot be a Disciple. --- Jesus said plainly in Matthew 7:

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”

 

--- There are Messianic Jews and Messianic Muslims which you can find online.

They trust Jesus for their salvation, and continue to practice some of their traditions.

--- Only the individual heart knows whether or not it is fully surrendered to God.

 

Placid

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i mean, was it not written by 40 different people? I have read parts of it and it is very different from the Quran in many aspects, in my opinion.

 

Hello BuggyLemon,

 

It is interesting how this topic expanded to include the authenticity of the Bible. That is understandable, seeing that Paul's admonition to the Corinthian women is included in the Christian Bible.

 

As a Christian, I personally believe that God's Written Word is not confined to only one person as the messenger and I do not believe that only one book abrogates any other book of God's Written Word. For example, I do not believe that the Gospel accounts abrogate the Psalms. Rather, it is awesomely cool to see how the Messianic prophecies in the Psalms are fulfilled by what Jesus Christ said and did,as well as will do!!!

 

As a follower of Jesus Christ, I believe he fulfills (not abrogates) the prophecies concerning Him in the Tanakh, which includes the animal sacrifices that God commanded the Israelites to do via Moses. That is why I believe that I do not have to sacrifice any animals for my sins, because I believe Jesus Christ was the sacrifice once for all, thus fulfilling God's commands for blood sacrifice. Thank God we do not have to kill innocent animals anymore!!! 

 

I also believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead and soon will be coming back, thus fulfilling other Messianic prophecies! It is really cool in my opinion that the messengers who were given God's Word (compiling the Tanakh/Old Testament) set the foundation for Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ's followers told others about what he did/said, reminded by God's Holy Spirit which God gives to mankind, fulfilling prophecy as well!

 

Paul's writings are included in the New Testament due to God's Spirit working in him. It is really cool how God used a Jewish Pharisee (Saul before he was Paul) who hated Jewish Christians (the first Christians = Jewish) and opened his heart to who Jesus (Yeshua) is! It is ironically funny how this man was also used by God to bring Gentiles to Jesus!!! :)

 

Concerning the topic, the reason I do not wear a head covering is because Paul wrote this admonition to the church in Corinth. Corinthian culture is different than my culture. In my culture, modesty does not include covering one's head. (Covering one's head is more of a curious novelty here.) Rather, modesty in my culture is not wearing revealing clothes and is also behaving in an appropriate way with others.

 

Jesus Christ did not tell his female followers to wear a head covering. Rather, Jesus focused on purity of the heart, specifying males. Females are to apply Jesus' teaching to their own lives. For example, Jesus said: “You have heard that our fathers were told, ‘Do not commit adultery.’[c] 28 But I tell you that a man who even looks at a woman with the purpose of lusting after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:27-28 CJB) Women are to keep their hearts/minds free of lust too, which of course includes not lusting after men not one's husband no matter what they wear or don't wear.

 

Peace and God bless you

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Hello BuggyLemon,

 

It is interesting how this topic expanded to include the authenticity of the Bible. That is understandable, seeing that Paul's admonition to the Corinthian women is included in the Christian Bible.

 

As a Christian, I personally believe that God's Written Word is not confined to only one person as the messenger and I do not believe that only one book abrogates any other book of God's Written Word. For example, I do not believe that the Gospel accounts abrogate the Psalms. Rather, it is awesomely cool to see how the Messianic prophecies in the Psalms are fulfilled by what Jesus Christ said and did,as well as will do!!!

 

As a follower of Jesus Christ, I believe he fulfills (not abrogates) the prophecies concerning Him in the Tanakh, which includes the animal sacrifices that God commanded the Israelites to do via Moses. That is why I believe that I do not have to sacrifice any animals for my sins, because I believe Jesus Christ was the sacrifice once for all, thus fulfilling God's commands for blood sacrifice. Thank God we do not have to kill innocent animals anymore!!! 

 

I also believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead and soon will be coming back, thus fulfilling other Messianic prophecies! It is really cool in my opinion that the messengers who were given God's Word (compiling the Tanakh/Old Testament) set the foundation for Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ's followers told others about what he did/said, reminded by God's Holy Spirit which God gives to mankind, fulfilling prophecy as well!

 

Paul's writings are included in the New Testament due to God's Spirit working in him. It is really cool how God used a Jewish Pharisee (Saul before he was Paul) who hated Jewish Christians (the first Christians = Jewish) and opened his heart to who Jesus (Yeshua) is! It is ironically funny how this man was also used by God to bring Gentiles to Jesus!!! :)

 

Concerning the topic, the reason I do not wear a head covering is because Paul wrote this admonition to the church in Corinth. Corinthian culture is different than my culture. In my culture, modesty does not include covering one's head. (Covering one's head is more of a curious novelty here.) Rather, modesty in my culture is not wearing revealing clothes and is also behaving in an appropriate way with others.

 

Jesus Christ did not tell his female followers to wear a head covering. Rather, Jesus focused on purity of the heart, specifying males. Females are to apply Jesus' teaching to their own lives. For example, Jesus said: “You have heard that our fathers were told, ‘Do not commit adultery.’[c]28 But I tell you that a man who even looks at a woman with the purpose of lusting after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:27-28 CJB) Women are to keep their hearts/minds free of lust too, which of course includes not lusting after men not one's husband no matter what they wear or don't wear.

 

Peace and God bless you

What is the reason for nuns covering their heads? I was always curious to know this. They dress much like Muslim women.

 

Thank you for your response. I am sorry I cannot answer at length. I am drowned in my studies at the moment. That question arose in my mind while reading your response though :) . I hope you can answer it. Thanks and may God bless you as well.

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What is the reason for nuns covering their heads? I was always curious to know this. They dress much like Muslim women.

 

Thank you for your response. I am sorry I cannot answer at length. I am drowned in my studies at the moment. That question arose in my mind while reading your response though :) . I hope you can answer it. Thanks and may God bless you as well.

 

Hello BuggyLemon,

 

I am not a Catholic, so I am not the best person to answer that question. :) I'm sorry. It would be good to ask a Catholic nun that question.

 

May God greatly bless you in your studies. It would be helpful to close Shiachat until you are finished studying for the day, no? :)

 

My personal opinion concerning your question is that Catholic nuns consider themselves set apart for God and thus did not dress like "normal" Christian women, so it is more of an identity "badge." Again, it is best if you ask a Catholic nun who dresses differently. :)

 

Peace and God bless you

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May God greatly bless you in your studies. It would be helpful to close Shiachat until you are finished studying for the day, no? :)

Thank you :) . Easier said than done sis... It's addictive  ^_^ .

 

Thanks for the reply.

Edited by BuggyLemon

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It is really cool in my opinion that the messengers who were given God's Word (compiling the Tanakh/Old Testament) set the foundation for Jesus Christ. 

 

 

Hi Christian Lady

 

You have hit the nail on the head.

 

That is exactly the difference between Islam and Christianity.

 

Christianity believes that all messengers set the foundation for Jesus (pbuh).

 

Islam likewise believes that all messengers including Jesus (Pbuh) set the foundation for Muhammad (pbuh). 

 

A very good point and synopsis!

 

Cheers 

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Jesus only saves sinners who repent.

 

 

Hi Placid 

 

In Islam, sinners who repent do not need to be saved.

 

In general terms, God has promised forgiveness for those who repent [4:110], [27:11].

 

And if they are forgiven by God directly, no intervention by anyone is required.

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Hi Peace,

 

Quote from Post 118:

In Islam, sinners who repent do not need to be saved.

 In general terms, God has promised forgiveness for those who repent [4:110], [27:11].

 And if they are forgiven by God directly, no intervention by anyone is required.

 

Response: --- You had asked me the questions, which I answered. --- And according to our Christian Faith one must repent of sin, believe in God and follow His will for their life. --- This is the way of salvation.

--- In Islam, if your repentance is to God, with surrender unto His will, then the ‘good works’ you do are according to His will, are they not? --- And this leads to salvation.

--- However, ‘good works’ without faith and surrender to God, are just ‘good works’ are they not? --- It says in Surah 3:

91 Lo! those who disbelieve, and die in disbelief, the (whole) earth full of gold would not be accepted from such an one if it were offered as a ransom (for his soul). Theirs will be a painful doom and they will have no helpers.

--- So an unbelieving millionaire, who gave his wealth to feed the poor, would be doing ‘good works’ --- but it would not save his soul, would it?

 

Jesus came as an example to follow, --- after repentance and belief in God.

--- In the Quran it repeats the instruction in Surah 3:

50   I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.

51 "'It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"

--- Don’t you think that Muhammad believed this? --- And when Muhammad was given spiritual enlightenment in 42:52, --- God said in the last part of the verse:

“We guide such of Our servants as We will; and verily thou dost guide (men) to the Straight Way.”

 

Now do you suppose there are two Straight Ways? --- Or, was Muhammad not following the same Straight Way?

 

It is interesting that Muhammad taught his friends and relatives for the first three years, and then God told him to start preaching publicly in Mecca, that there was One God. --- The persecution became strong against his followers so he advised those who could, to emigrate to Abyssinia, a Christian country where they would not be persecuted for their faith in God.

When they were asked by the Negos (king) of Abyssinia to give a testimony of what they believed, the cousin of the Prophet, Ja’far ibn Abi Talib, recited the first part of Surah 19, entitled Mary, --- which starts with the miraculous birth of John the Babtist, and the Virgin birth of Jesus.

--- So, since that was the testimony of what the first Muslims believed, Muhammad would have taught that, during the first three years, don’t you think? --- Because when he began to teach openly in Mecca in the fourth year, he would be too busy disputing with the idolaters, for quiet Bible studies, wouldn’t he?

 

Placid

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 So, since that was the testimony of what the first Muslims believed, Muhammad would have taught that, during the first three years, don’t you think?

 

Hi Placid

 

That was only a small part of what he taught.

 

It was not the testimony of what Muslims believed except as also the stories of other prophets.

 

The reason why his cousin Jafar ibn Abi Talib quoted those verses was probably they would resonate with the Christian king of Abyssinia.

 

It does not mean that it was the principal message of Islam in the fledgling years.

 

It is interesting that Muhammad taught his friends and relatives for the first three years

 

The reason why he could not preach freely in the beginning was because a general boycott had been imposed on him and his family. And he, along with his close ones, were sequestered in a locality outside Mecca. 

 

The people of Mecca wee forbidden to have any contact with him of any sort  - trade or personal. 

Edited by PeaceLoving

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Hi Lemon,

 

How is it going with your school work?

I thought that Christianlady wanted to get the topic oh Hijab and head covering for nuns, back on track so I will transfer your question about the Bible from, Post 103, to the new topic on:

‘The difference between the Old Testament and the New,’ if that is okay.

 

Copied from Post 103:

Quote: i mean, was it not written by 40 different people? I have read parts of it and it is very different from the Quran in many aspects, in my opinion.

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On 9/14/2013 at 2:42 PM, Mu3lam said:

It is obligatory for Christian women to cover their heads while in Church.

Bible says so.  

Look at Servidor's posts in that thread with girls in hijab.

 

Christian hijab, however, is nowhere near as strict as Islamic hijab.  For one, it's not required everywhere.  Only in religious settings.  Also, there is no "awra" code.  The rule is modest clothing + head covered.  Hair can be showing, arms can be showing, neck can be showing, etc.  The idea is modesty.  Not strict Islamic hijab.

I have found this to be true in my own studies as well.

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On 9/20/2013 at 6:22 AM, PenOfTruth said:

 

the very origin of this problem are the parents imbedding in the culture. after that, the society around us, then us not studying our religion. the lack of interest in religion nowadays is scary. shaytan is blocking everyone from seeing the truth. and the women who are meant to build the religion are breaking it apart. me living in Australia, I see one in ten people wearing proper hijab. and when I find someone religious I feel like I find heaven. from how affected everyone is. the scary thing is, in the east it is just the same, if not now- it will. see the power of our desires are extremely strong, and the people are not finding  way to overtake these desires.

 

the hijab is (in my opinion) is the key to Allah swt, because once you wear the full hijab, you just cannot do what is wrong. they say the hijab restricts you, and truly it does from the wrong.

 

and you see why Maryam (as) wore it..

I think you touched on a key observance there: that hijab restricts you from doing wrong. If you had asked me a year ago before I had ever worn hijab, I would have found your point ridiculous, but it really is a valid point. Last February I participated in a hijab for a day for the World Hijab Day thing, and you really do become more aware of yourself and your actions in hijab. Others also seem to treat you with higher expectations of being of high moral character. Now some people do treat you with suspicion when you cover your head in America, but I seriously get more doors opened for me in hijab than I do in regular attire.

 

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