Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
CLynn

Isaiah

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Peace and God bless you with love from your sister in humanity

Okay. I see your opinion is fixed. Each to his own, I guess. I can't spare too much time debating this. Peace to you too.

 

"If a person is not your brother faith, he is your equal in humanity" - Imam Ali (as)

Edited by BuggyLemon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*edit*

 

Forget it.  I'm better than this.  I refuse to hate you because you aren't even worth my emotions.  I pray that you either change (soon) or that every last human being is protected from you.  Genocide is not acceptable and I'm sorry that you believe that it is. 

Edited by Mu3lam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So many things wrong with this.

 

Quick points:

 

  • So, just because oppressors live in a holy land and they are descendants from a certain group of people makes them right in killing innocents? Is this what Jesus (as) taught according to you?
  • So if you were just minding your own business and a thief came into your house and forced you to let him take the house and made you live on the street, you wouldn't defend yourself, right? "Just love him"? No punishment for this thief? This is the teaching of Jesus (as) ?

 

I'll try to get back to you ASAP with more detailed questions/answers.

 

Hello BuggyLemon,

 

History is history.

 

While I personally don't understand why God allows nations to conquer each other, it is a part of history as well as the present. God choosing Israel is also a part of history and continues into the present, though of course there are people who disagree with this. For example, Atheists disagree with this because they don't believe in God, period. Christians however who understand that Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of God's Word and prophesies to Israel acknowledge that God chose Israel, and that is fine. God does what He wants; He doesn't have to answer to any mere mortal.

 

"So, just because oppressors live in a holy land and they are descendants from a certain group of people makes them right in killing innocents?"

 

 

Why did God lead the Israelites to that land? Just curious. Did you know there were people living in the land before God brought the Israelites? Have you ever heard of Jericho and how Jericho was destroyed, for example? Did you ever hear about how King David conquered the city of Jerusalem from the Jebusites?

 

"Is this what Jesus (as) taught according to you?"

 

 

Jesus Christ taught his followers to love their enemies. As a Christian, I have never killed anybody but rather I strive with God's help to love my enemies as Jesus says. Each person has the responsibility to obey Jesus' teachings. Because God has given people free will, each person is responsible for if he/she loves or hates, cares for or kills. Ever since Jesus commanded people to love their enemies, each person is accountable to God for if they love their enemies or not. Therefore, all the Palestinians and Israelites who are hurting each other are accountable to God for whether they obey Jesus Christ's commands to love, same as everyone else.

 

So if you were just minding your own business and a thief came into your house and forced you to let him take the house and made you live on the street, you wouldn't defend yourself, right? "Just love him"? No punishment for this thief? This is the teaching of Jesus (as) ?

 

 

First of all, when everyone is obeying Jesus' commands to love, robbery doesn't happen. Love = giving to those in need.

 

Secondly, God is the Judge. I'm not. God ordained authority and human judges, so if a person forced me out of my home, I would go directly to the authorities. If the thief needed a home, other Christians and I would help him build or rent one. (Habitat for Humanity is one such organization that helps those in need of a home.)

 

"Habitat for Humanity is a nonprofit, ecumenical Christian ministry founded on the conviction that every man, woman and child should have a decent, safe and affordable place to live. Learn more about our founders."

 

One reason why many Western countries have charity programs is because we recognize the importance of helping those in need. Oftentimes, thieves steal because they have not and need something. Therefore, helping people in need is one of the most important prevention methods, to lesson the motivation for stealing what others have worked hard to buy.

 

Concerning Palestine and Israel, one of the saddest issues is that when Jewish people were being persecuted in Europe, the other people groups in general did not care and did not offer hospitality to help the refugees in need. However, God used the horrible evil of the holocaust and the apathy of other nations to open the door for the descendants of Israel to go back to the land of their forefathers. The return of the descendants of Israel to the land God gave their forefathers is actually fulfillment of prophecy, whether people like it or not. The protection of remnants of the descendants Israel is also fulfillment of prophecy and is considered by many people to be a miracle of God, seeing as they have had many enemies (and still do).

 

Now, are the Israelites of today doing a good job loving their enemies, thus obeying Jesus Christ? No. Why? Many do not believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah. Are the Palestinians doing a good job loving their enemies, thus obeying Jesus Christ? No. Why?

 

Both groups need to love their enemies and help each other, instead of hurt each other.

 

Peace and God bless you

*edit*

 

Forget it.  I'm better than this.  I refuse to hate you because you aren't even worth my emotions.  I pray that you either change (soon) or that every last human being is protected from you.  Genocide is not acceptable and I'm sorry that you believe that it is. 

 

Hello Mu3lam,

 

God is Love. :) I refuse to hate you and I will not insult you in any way. You are worth the precious and holy blood of Jesus Christ, shed once for all, same as I and everyone else is worth the precious and holy blood of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ loves you and has commanded me and all his followers to love you and everyone, no matter what they think about us. One day Jesus Christ will return to reign over all! :) I praise God for His amazing grace, love, and mercy!!! :)

 

I have never said that genocide is acceptable. Anybody who kills another human being is accountable to God, and anyone (no matter their ethnicity) who does not love their enemies as Jesus Christ commands is accountable to God for disobeying Jesus Christ, the Jewish Messiah.

 

Peace and God bless you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is interesting that I made this note for myself earlier today...

 

Let me ask a question...
Would Israel be in the west bank, or the Gaza strip, at all, if they had not been attacked from those places first?
The truth seems very clear, and so yes, I hold very stubbornly to it.

 

 

The word oppression gets thrown around way too much without anyone being willing to take a look at actual facts and circumstances of how things came to be the way that they are.

Everybody here is quick to say that people have the right to defend themselves.... that seems to apply to everybody 'except the Jews living in Israel... I imagine it is fine for the muslims living in Israel to defend themselves?

 

Salaam.

Edited by CLynn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The word oppression gets thrown around way too much without anyone being willing to take a look at actual facts and circumstances of how things came to be the way that they are.

Everybody here is quick to say that people have the right to defend themselves.... that seems to apply to everybody 'except the Jews living in Israel... I imagine it is fine for the muslims living in Israel to defend themselves?

It is sad that some people do not take time to investigate the facts about what is truly going on in Israel and how those criminals are disobeying God while people like you and your friend sit in the USA, free from the troubles of the oppressed in Palestine. May God guide you and may God destroy those oppressors that will never have anything to do with our beloved prophet Jesus (AS) or Moses (AS).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdfh_0uXw60

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpMpHgw7yVk

Both groups need to love their enemies and help each other, instead of hurt each other.

Too bad Israel isn't going to listen to this. You seem to live in dreamland where everything is perfect.

 

In reality, things are very different.

First of all, when everyone is obeying Jesus' commands to love, robbery doesn't happen. Love = giving to those in need.

A thief (that isn't stealing out of necessity) doesn't really care about Jesus's command, now does he?

 

So what are you going to do? Go to the authorities? Okay, but if the authorities are meant to love their enemies, they should forgive the thief for taking your house and let him keep it.

Why did God lead the Israelites to that land? Just curious. Did you know there were people living in the land before God brought the Israelites? Have you ever heard of Jericho and how Jericho was destroyed, for example? Did you ever hear about how King David conquered the city of Jerusalem from the Jebusites?

I couldn't care less about Christian fiction.

What I am asking is this:

Do you, as a self-respecting human being, condone the killing of innocents in Palestine by Zionist leaders and allowing these criminals to snatch land, kill children and destroy families with no penalty imposed on them? Yes or no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Greetings BuggyLemon,

 

With all due respect...

"take a look at actual facts and circumstances of how things came to be the way that they are.

Everybody here is quick to say that people have the right to defend themselves.... that seems to apply to everybody 'except the Jews living in Israel... I imagine it is fine for the muslims living in Israel to defend themselves?

 

Would Israel be in the west bank, or the Gaza strip, at all, if they had not been attacked from those places first?

The truth seems very clear... "

 

Salaam BuggyLemon, and be careful about the propaganda that you feed your mind with, be sure you are looking at a balanced picture from both sides.  Are the Jews living in Israel allowed to defend themselves?  It is a very complex picture and issue and requires much study.

 

Blessings to you.  I hope you are not neglecting your school studies,

CLynn

Edited by CLynn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings BuggyLemon,

 

With all due respect...

"take a look at actual facts and circumstances of how things came to be the way that they are.

Everybody here is quick to say that people have the right to defend themselves.... that seems to apply to everybody 'except the Jews living in Israel... I imagine it is fine for the muslims living in Israel to defend themselves?

 

Would Israel be in the west bank, or the Gaza strip, at all, if they had not been attacked from those places first?

The truth seems very clear... "

 

Salaam BuggyLemon, and be careful about the propaganda that you feed your mind with, be sure you are looking at a balanced picture from both sides.  Are the Jews living in Israel allowed to defend themselves?  It is a very complex picture and issue and requires much study.

 

Blessings to you.  I hope you are not neglecting your school studies,

CLynn

 

(salam)

(bismillah)

 

In regards to the Zionist state of Israel, Firstly, We must look at the whole picture and think logically. Allah(swt) gave us a brain for a reason and that is to think for ourselves when making decisions. Just because some books or people say that Jesus will return to the Land of Israel or that the Land of Israelites used to exist long ago, does not mean and in no way proves that these are the same people and that this is the same time period being referred. Suppose your argument is valid and the Palestinans did attack the Israelis and the israelis took the Palestinan land. Does that justify removing and demolishing Innocent peoples homes, who had nothing to do with the situation and no part in those wars, and replacing them with jewish only settlers? Suppose one or two or lets even take 100 rockets are fired at the zionist state and ill say they only kill one or two soldiers, Does that justify bombing the whole land, with white phosphorus, where the rockets were fired from and killing 2000 people? Suppose this state of Israel flies drones over lebanon daily and violates their airspace for no apparent reason at all, when Lebanon hasn't done a single thing. Does that justify the violation of their Airspace? Are israeli lives more valuable than any other human beings lives? If you agree that they are, and you mix in Jesus with modern day israel, you are bascally saying that Jesus is an Unjust person which I don't believe for a second.

 

We Muslims believe that Imam Mahdi is going to return, but you don't see Iran invading Saudi Arabia and taking over Mecca and kicking people out of their homes and replacing them with Shia do you? You don't see them invading the Kaaba and limiting who can do what do you? Its because Iran and Muslims in general are not in desperation like the Zionist israelis are. Its called relying on Gods will and When God allows it, our Imam will rise. You and Christianlady defending injustices and invasions and disproportionate use of force by one country saying they are both equally guilty is just simply not true and then you are defending the injustices and disproportionate and equating Jesus son of Mary and God to it making them out to be unjust. Think logically.     

 

(wasalam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would Israel be in the west bank, or the Gaza strip, at all, if they had not been attacked from those places first?

 

Greetings Clynn

 

Are you aware how Israel came into being?

 

Tell me, would you support the creation of a new state in a land populated largely by other people?

 

How about a new state in the middle of Arizona, Wyoming, Manitoba or even perhaps the British Midlands?

 

So let me tell you - the land that forms Israel today was populated largely by Arabs (Palestinians).

 

The Jews had been ostracized and brutally oppressed all over Europe by Christians for centuries.

 

The oppression was even carried out by the Church.

 

Now that the war was over, Christians wanted the Jews to forget the sufferings that they had brought upon them.

 

What better way to do that than to help them find a nation of their own on somebody else's land!

 

And you know what? That would give them an added advantage.

 

While Christians are the ones who had oppressed the Jews for hundreds of years, how wonderful it would be if they could find a new enemy for the Jews.  

 

Palestine, largely populated by Palestinian Arabs,  happened to be a British mandate.
 
If Palestine could be converted into a Jewish state, there would be a new enemy for the Jews and the old enmity with the Christians would be forgotten. 
 

Smart move, don't you think?  

 

And so with the help of the Yanks, the Brits played one of the most rotten cards of their colonial history.

 

A motion was moved in the UN.

 

Some countries were, of course, against.

 

But all Christian nations who wanted the Jews to forget their  persecution by Christians, voted for the motion. 

 

And the illegitimate state of Israel was thus born.

 

Is that a fair way to create a new nation - vote the issue in the UN and count the votes? 

 

Israel is clearly the love child of a political orgy between Christian nations, in particular the US and the UK.

 

In theory, Israel has no right to exist.

 

Simple as that!

 

Cheers

I'd like to return to discussion of Isaiah.

 

Muslims don't know much about Isaiah.

 

So your thread cannot go very far anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings Clynn

 

Are you aware how Israel came into being?

 

Tell me, would you support the creation of a new state in a land populated largely by other people?

 

How about a new state in the middle of Arizona, Wyoming, Manitoba or even perhaps the British Midlands?

 

So let me tell you - the land that forms Israel today was populated largely by Arabs (Palestinians).

 

The Jews had been ostracized and brutally oppressed all over Europe by Christians for centuries.

 

The oppression was even carried out by the Church.

 

Now that the war was over, Christians wanted the Jews to forget the sufferings that they had brought upon them.

 

What better way to do that than to help them find a nation of their own on somebody else's land!

 

And you know what? That would give them an added advantage.

 

While Christians are the ones who had oppressed the Jews for hundreds of years, how wonderful it would be if they could find a new enemy for the Jews.  

 

Palestine, largely populated by Palestinian Arabs,  happened to be a British mandate.
 
If Palestine could be converted into a Jewish state, there would be a new enemy for the Jews and the old enmity with the Christians would be forgotten. 
 

Smart move, don't you think?  

 

And so with the help of the Yanks, the Brits played one of the most rotten cards of their colonial history.

 

A motion was moved in the UN.

 

Some countries were, of course, against.

 

But all Christian nations who wanted the Jews to forget their  persecution by Christians, voted for the motion. 

 

And the illegitimate state of Israel was thus born.

 

Is that a fair way to create a new nation - vote the issue in the UN and count the votes? 

 

Israel is clearly the love child of a political orgy between Christian nations, in particular the US and the UK.

 

In theory, Israel has no right to exist.

 

Simple as that!

 

Cheers

 

Muslims don't know much about Isaiah.

 

So your thread cannot go very far anyway.

(salam)

 

May I also add that it was not just Arab Muslims who were expelled from the land which is now called Israel but some of those killed, expelled and forced to flee their homes also include Jews and Christians, yes Christians, the same people who believe in Jesus as their lord and savior. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

 

May I also add that it was not just Arab Muslims who were expelled from the land which is now called Israel but some of those killed, expelled and forced to flee their homes also include Jews and Christians, yes Christians, the same people who believe in Jesus as their lord and savior. 

 

True

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...