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In the Name of God بسم الله

Illegitimate Never Be Shiite

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It is a common accepted statement or tradition that only legitimate people love ahlulbyte. please Iwant brothers and sisters help me with references of this statement, or may be a link to get the references. thanks.

Edited by Muhammed Ali
Title edited. Please don't use that word.
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It is a common accepted statement or tradition that only legitimate people love ahlulbyte. please Iwant brothers and sisters help me with references of this statement, or may be a link to get the references. thanks.

 

can you please be more clearer in what you mean?

wasalam :)

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can you please be more clearer in what you mean?

wasalam :)

I mean a person that is a son of zina (born out of marriage), or a basterd, can never follow or loves ahlulbyte. Is there any backing, hadith or quranic verse that refer to this statement. Because I heard shiites making this kind of statement.

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I mean a person that is a son of zina (born out of marriage), or a basterd, can never follow or loves ahlulbyte. Is there any backing, hadith or quranic verse that refer to this statement. Because I heard shiites making this kind of statement.

 

well actually I read a hadith, ill tell you as soon as I find it.

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 وروى العلامة ابن الأثير الجزري في «النهاية» قال : في حديث جعفر الصادق (عليه السلام) : لا يحبنا أهل البيت المذعذع قالوا : وما المذعذع ؟ قال : ولد الزنا

____

 

alama ibn atheer aljazri in the (nahaya) says: a narration about imam alsadiq (as): a son of zina will never love us ahlulbayt.

 

source: ( ورواه العلامة محمد طاهر الصديقي الهندي في «مجمع بحار الأنوار» (ج1 ص438 ط نول كشور لكنهو). 

___________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 روى العلامة ابن أبي الحديد في «شرح نهج البلاغة» عن أبي مريم الأنصاري ، عن علي (عليه السلام) قال

 

«لا يُحبّني كافر ولا ولد زنا»).

_________

 

al-alama ibn abe hadeed says in (sharh nahj albalagha) about abi Maryam alansari about imam ali (as) says: either a disbeliever or a son of zina wont like me.

 

source:

  •           شرح نهج البلاغة : ج1 ص373 .
  •  ورواه في الغدير : (ج4 : 9 / 323) .

 

 

and subhan Allah, when almokhtar caught the people who trampled on the body of imam alhussain (as), he asked them who they are sons of- they all didn't know.

 

wasalam :)

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Such discrimination, the heck is wrong with you?

 

nothing is wrong with him, he is right.

 

the philosophy of these hadiths:

 

in "alm althar" which is mentioned in the quran (please tell me of you don't know about it)

everyone single human soul was offered the wilayah of ahlulbayt (as); those who rejected it - Allah swt made their birth an un-pure one.

thus you find the companions of imam ali (as) used to say that: "if we had a child we will ask him/ her if they loved this man (ali as) if they said yes, then we knew that their birth was pure."

 

im not surprised that Allah swt made sure the shia all came from pure births (tahr)

 

wasalam :)

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 وروى العلامة ابن الأثير الجزري في «النهاية» قال : في حديث جعفر الصادق (عليه السلام) : لا يحبنا أهل البيت المذعذع قالوا : وما المذعذع ؟ قال : ولد الزنا

____

 

alama ibn atheer aljazri in the (nahaya) says: a narration about imam alsadiq (as): a son of zina will never love us ahlulbayt.

 

source: ( ورواه العلامة محمد طاهر الصديقي الهندي في «مجمع بحار الأنوار» (ج1 ص438 ط نول كشور لكنهو). 

___________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 روى العلامة ابن أبي الحديد في «شرح نهج البلاغة» عن أبي مريم الأنصاري ، عن علي (عليه السلام) قال

 

«لا يُحبّني كافر ولا ولد زنا»).

_________

 

al-alama ibn abe hadeed says in (sharh nahj albalagha) about abi Maryam alansari about imam ali (as) says: either a disbeliever or a son of zina wont like me.

 

source:

  •           شرح نهج البلاغة : ج1 ص373 .
  •  ورواه في الغدير : (ج4 : 9 / 323) .

 

 

and subhan Allah, when almokhtar caught the people who trampled on the body of imam alhussain (as), he asked them who they are sons of- they all didn't know.

 

wasalam :)

thanks alot brother for these references. im grateful. may Allah reward you with jannah. Salam.

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I mean a person that is a son of zina (born out of marriage), or a basterd, can never follow or loves ahlulbyte. Is there any backing, hadith or quranic verse that refer to this statement. Because I heard shiites making this kind of statement.

 

Forget what people say and use logic.... What does being born out of wedlock have anything to do with love? You don't even need hadiths for such things... 

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thanks alot brother for these references. im grateful. may Allah reward you with jannah. Salam.

 

sister*

 

may Allah swt grant all us heaven with the ahlulbayt (as)

 

wasalam.

Forget what people say and use logic.... What does being born out of wedlock have anything to do with love? You don't even need hadiths for such things... 

 

read my post (#11).

 

I have checked with a scholar, the hadith is correct and as my post says: it makes scene.

every hadith has it's philosophy.

 

wasalam.

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sister*

 

may Allah swt grant all us heaven with the ahlulbayt (as)

 

wasalam.

 

read my post (#11).

 

I have checked with a scholar, the hadith is correct and as my post says: it makes scene.

every hadith has it's philosophy.

 

wasalam.

 

Those hadith are either fabricated or only refer to specific person. Not universal. Use logic. 

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Those hadith are either fabricated or only refer to specific person. Not universal. Use logic. 

 

I asked a scholar.

ill repeat my post.

.

 

the philosophy of these hadiths:

 

in "alm althar" which is mentioned in the quran (please tell me of you don't know about it)

everyone single human soul was offered the wilayah of ahlulbayt (as); those who rejected it - Allah swt made their birth an un-pure one.

thus you find the companions of imam ali (as) used to say that: "if we had a child we will ask him/ her if they loved this man (ali as) if they said yes, then we knew that their birth was pure."

 

im not surprised that Allah swt made sure the shia all came from pure births (tahr)

 

I have checked with a scholar, and the philosophy makes sense. so we are not judging or being judgmental but that is how Allah swt wanted their births to be like.

 

 

wasalam :)

Edited by PenOfTruth
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I asked a scholar.

ill repeat my post.

.

 

the philosophy of these hadiths:

 

in "alm althar" which is mentioned in the quran (please tell me of you don't know about it)

everyone single human soul was offered the wilayah of ahlulbayt (as); those who rejected it - Allah swt made their birth an un-pure one.

thus you find the companions of imam ali (as) used to say that: "if we had a child we will ask him/ her if they loved this man (ali as) if they said yes, then we knew that their birth was pure."

 

im not surprised that Allah swt made sure the shia all came from pure births (tahr)

 

I have checked with a scholar, and the philosophy makes sense. so we are not judging or being judgmental but that is how Allah swt wanted their births to be like.

 

 

wasalam :)

 

This can be easily disproved by finding just one Shia who was born out of wedlock. In Islam, we do not bear the sin of our parents. Islam teaches us each person is born innocent and now you are telling us we are predetermined? 

 

People also change. We are given opportunity for forgiveness. So the soul which you claim denied ahlul bayt (a) before birth can not seek forgiveness and believe in them after birth? Sorry but this just seems like nonsense and un-Islamic and a way to distance those born out of wedlock (like they had a choice) from general public. Once again, out of over 100 million Shia, I guarantee you that you will find those born out of wedlock. Especially our convert brothers and sisters whose parents were probably atheist or did not believe in the sanctity of marriage and sex after marriage. 

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It is a common accepted statement or tradition that only legitimate people love ahlulbyte. please Iwant brothers and sisters help me with references of this statement, or may be a link to get the references. thanks.

Wrong. The hadith goes that only an illegitmate would hate Ali (a), which means that you could be an illegitimate and still love Ali, however, if you do hate him then rest assured you're a product of illegitimacy.

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This can be easily disproved by finding just one Shia who was born out of wedlock. In Islam, we do not bear the sin of our parents. Islam teaches us each person is born innocent and now you are telling us we are predetermined? 

 

People also change. We are given opportunity for forgiveness. So the soul which you claim denied ahlul bayt Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã before birth can not seek forgiveness and believe in them after birth? Sorry but this just seems like nonsense and un-Islamic and a way to distance those born out of wedlock (like they had a choice) from general public. Once again, out of over 100 million Shia, I guarantee you that you will find those born out of wedlock. Especially our convert brothers and sisters whose parents were probably atheist or did not believe in the sanctity of marriage and sex after marriage. 

 

I know, Allah swt knows if they will change later on. if they accepted it in alam althar, doesn't mean they will be born into, they could convert later on.

 

zina is when muslim doesn't follow the right way of marriage. if two Christians had a baby, accoriding to their religious laws, it is not considered zina. if they did what they believe in, it not zina.

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Some have argued that the Imams' discussion of "illegitimate children" being destined to disbelieve is a reference to Banu Umayya and their supporters. Yazid was called an illegitimate child and a son of adultery. Due to taqiyya, there was a need to refer to the Caliphs and their party with code words. A child born out of wedlock has committed no sin, and his status as a believer or disbeliever is not tied to the sins of his parents.

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
السلام عليكم
 

 

 وروى العلامة ابن الأثير الجزري في «النهاية» قال : في حديث جعفر الصادق (عليه السلام) : لا يحبنا أهل البيت المذعذع قالوا : وما المذعذع ؟ قال : ولد الزنا

____

 

alama ibn atheer aljazri in the (nahaya) says: a narration about imam alsadiq (as): a son of zina will never love us ahlulbayt.

 

source: ( ورواه العلامة محمد طاهر الصديقي الهندي في «مجمع بحار الأنوار» (ج1 ص438 ط نول كشور لكنهو). 

___________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 روى العلامة ابن أبي الحديد في «شرح نهج البلاغة» عن أبي مريم الأنصاري ، عن علي (عليه السلام) قال

 

«لا يُحبّني كافر ولا ولد زنا»).

_________

 

al-alama ibn abe hadeed says in (sharh nahj albalagha) about abi Maryam alansari about imam ali (as) says: either a disbeliever or a son of zina wont like me.

 

source:

  •           شرح نهج البلاغة : ج1 ص373 .
  •  ورواه في الغدير : (ج4 : 9 / 323) .

 

 

and subhan Allah, when almokhtar caught the people who trampled on the body of imam alhussain (as), he asked them who they are sons of- they all didn't know.

 

wasalam :)

 

Though I'm not denying the existence of these ahadith elsewhere in similar wordings, the two ones you've quoted are both Sunni Ahadith. First one from ('Ali) ibn Athir Al-Jazari is the famous Sunni Muhaddith, Rijal scholar, and Historian, who wrote Al-Kamil Fi Al-Ta'rikh, Usd Al-Ghabbah Fi Ma'rifat Al-Sahabah, and Al-Luhab Fi Tahdhib Al-Ansab. The second one is from the Sharh of Nahj Al-Balaghah belonging to Ibn Abi Al-Hadid, ie. 'Izz Al-Din 'Abd Al-Hamid ibn Hibatullah ibn Abi Al-Hadid Al-Mu'tazilli. He was a Shafi'i by madhab and mu'tazilah by 'aqidah, so he was not shi'ah at all. Don't take your 'aqidah and ahadith from sunni books when our's are enough for us.

 

والسلام

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First a guy is born out of wedlock totally innocent of the sin, and declared that such a guy cant be ahl e Bayt lover, what is his fault in all this.

 

According to this logic he is destined to be the enemy of Ahl e Bayt, so Allah is responsible for this, whats his fault. he neither chose his

 

being an illegitimate born nor did he chose to be enemy of aal e Muhammad. He got the enmity for aal e Muhammad not by choice at all,

 

he was born illegitimate, and by being so he automatically should be enemy of ehl e Bayt, what a logic.

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This is wrong and the illegitimately-born people have no bearing in their parents mistakes, this is like accusing Allah of injustice astaghfirollah.

 

many comments here are racist to be honest but disguised like this one man said once: two things i hate in this life : racism and blacks ! lol

Edited by mutazili(wasil)
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on many reference hadits before we born to this world, we on alam arruh, and Allah show wilayah of ahlulbayt and Allah give us choose to obey or reject, who reject became illegitimate and tyrant, its not that Allah unjust, its because what we choose back then, but we didnt remember, but latter on judgement day we ail know inshallah

 

wallahualam

 

ya ali!

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on many reference hadits before we born to this world, we on alam arruh, and Allah show wilayah of ahlulbayt and Allah give us choose to obey or reject, who reject became illegitimate and tyrant, its not that Allah unjust, its because what we choose back then, but we didnt remember, but latter on judgement day we ail know inshallah

 

wallahualam

 

ya ali!

Share the exact words. I disagree.

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