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Bride, 8, Dies Of Injuries On Wedding Night In Yem

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O so in you view he would support child marriage. Ok so I think even you are among those who consider the Prophet to promote social evil. Thanks goodness, I marvel these people and I marvel you.

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O so in you view he would support child marriage. Ok so I think even you are among those who consider the Prophet to promote social evil. Thanks goodness, I marvel these people and I marvel you.

Well, it could certainly be argued that he supported it, based on certain narrations, but that isn't the point. You claimed that he condemned it, so you need to prove that. You just seem to be assuming that he condemned it.

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Humans are considered to be children as they are still growing and developing. Physically, girls are said to be still growing and developing up to about 4 years past the onset of menses. Developmental emotional and psychological milestones are still being achieved throughout the teen years. The ability to make a knowledgeable decision about your marriage partner would depend on your emotional/psychological/intellectual ability and your life experiences.  There are many definitions as to when adulthood begins but for marriage I would not put it younger than being able to safely carry and give birth to a child.  When people lived till 28 or to the ripe old age of 35 - there was more of a rush to commit children to marriage. Little girls still died due to birth complications, but as long as the baby survived - life went on. The focus was on progeny not the quality of life or the potential death of the mother.

I don't get the feeling that the average life expectancy in 7th century Arabia was 28 or 35 years, judging by Islamic history, so some other excuse will need to be sought. As for a girl remaining a child until she has reached physical maturity, then in that case countries such as Spain, Italy, and France, which have the age of consent set at 13, 14, and 15, respectfully, also allow 'child marriages', since girls typically reach physical maturity at around 16.

I am not arguing against the fact that it would be better for girls not to be married off when it is likely to cause them harm, but that is already Islam's position. You can't knowingly put your daughter in harm's way as a father, or harm your wife as a husband. What I am arguing about is this simplistic 'end child marriages' approach, and even worse the attitude that 'child marriages' are inherently wrong/evil/sick/etc, especially when nobody wants to say what exactly a child is, or why it should be defined one way rather than another.

The bottom line is that Islam gives people freedom in certain matters to act in different ways. In certain situations, girls getting married young will make sense, and in others (such as many modern-day societies), it might make less sense. However, this is something left up to individuals families to decide, and is not something we can legislate against, when Allah and His Messenger didn't. You can't go around making things haram just because you find it distasteful.

Finally, there seems to be a disturbing trend among certain people (mostly, it has to be said, women) on this site to criticise certain things that they know is supported by the Quran and Sunnah. They will also then criticise anyone who upholds Islam's teachings on the matter, without ever being willing to discuss how a Muslim can reconcile going against the teachings of the Quran and Sunnah. It's very easy to throw around statements about slavery (for example) being absolutely evil, but a little more difficult to explain how the people we are supposed to uphold as the best models of morality kept slaves, or why there is nothing in the Quran against keeping slaves. It would be nice if it were possible to have grown-up discussions about this, without people getting emotional and resorting to sarcastic comments, or engaging in a 'hit and run' style of debating.

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This is really bad for the name of Isam. If some Islamaphobe gets hold of this information s/he could spark the (a3odhubillah)  the Prophet being a pedophile again. It's people like this that are the true terrorists towards Islam.

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I don't get the feeling that the average life expectancy in 7th century Arabia was 28 or 35 years, judging by Islamic history, so some other excuse will need to be sought. As for a girl remaining a child until she has reached physical maturity, then in that case countries such as Spain, Italy, and France, which have the age of consent set at 13, 14, and 15, respectfully, also allow 'child marriages', since girls typically reach physical maturity at around 16.

I am not arguing against the fact that it would be better for girls not to be married off when it is likely to cause them harm, but that is already Islam's position. You can't knowingly put your daughter in harm's way as a father, or harm your wife as a husband. What I am arguing about is this simplistic 'end child marriages' approach, and even worse the attitude that 'child marriages' are inherently wrong/evil/sick/etc, especially when nobody wants to say what exactly a child is, or why it should be defined one way rather than another.

The bottom line is that Islam gives people freedom in certain matters to act in different ways. In certain situations, girls getting married young will make sense, and in others (such as many modern-day societies), it might make less sense. However, this is something left up to individuals families to decide, and is not something we can legislate against, when Allah and His Messenger didn't. You can't go around making things haram just because you find it distasteful.

Finally, there seems to be a disturbing trend among certain people (mostly, it has to be said, women) on this site to criticise certain things that they know is supported by the Quran and Sunnah. They will also then criticise anyone who upholds Islam's teachings on the matter, without ever being willing to discuss how a Muslim can reconcile going against the teachings of the Quran and Sunnah. It's very easy to throw around statements about slavery (for example) being absolutely evil, but a little more difficult to explain how the people we are supposed to uphold as the best models of morality kept slaves, or why there is nothing in the Quran against keeping slaves. It would be nice if it were possible to have grown-up discussions about this, without people getting emotional and resorting to sarcastic comments, or engaging in a 'hit and run' style of debating.

 

It's difficult to find historical data on life expectancy. Studies I've seen put it (average life expectancy in 7th century) anywhere between 25 to 35 years. That is average life expectancy, but of course many lived to be much older than 35. The low number mostly has to do with high infant mortality rate and high mortality rate of mothers at child birth, which would bring down the average. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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This is one of the Ahadith which prove that Holy Prophet condemned child marriage:

 

Source: Beharul Anwar, Vol 3, written by Allama Mohammad Baqir Majlisi.

 

"In Sahah with reference to the chain of narrators, it has been reported from Hazrat Ameer ul Momineen [a], Ibn Abbas, Ibn Mas'ood and Jabir Ibn Abdullah Ansari that, Abu Bakr and Umar one after the other asked Hazrat Rasool Allah for Fatima Zehra 's hand in marriage, the Holy Prophet replied, Fatima is too young for marriage."

 

---------


Even when in the eyes of these suitors Fatima was of age of marriage, in the eyes of Prophet she was of young age.

Hazrat Fatima Zehra got married at the age of 19 years.

Thus it proves that Holy Prophet preferred the age of marriage for his own daughter to be 19 years and below it he considered her too young for marriage.


Even when in the eyes of these suitors Fatima was of age of marriage, in the eyes of Prophet she was of young age.

Hazrat Fatima Zehra got married at the age of 19 years.

Thus it proves that Holy Prophet preferred the age of marriage for his own daughter to be 19 years and below it he considered her too young for marriage.

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This is one of the Ahadith which prove that Holy Prophet condemned child marriage:

 

Source: Beharul Anwar, Vol 3, written by Allama Mohammad Baqir Majlisi.

 

"In Sahah with reference to the chain of narrators, it has been reported from Hazrat Ameer ul Momineen [a], Ibn Abbas, Ibn Mas'ood and Jabir Ibn Abdullah Ansari that, Abu Bakr and Umar one after the other asked Hazrat Rasool Allah for Fatima Zehra 's hand in marriage, the Holy Prophet replied, Fatima is too young for marriage."

 

---------

And yet he married her to Imam Ali (as) when she was 9?

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"Muhammad’s daughter Fatima was about 19 years old and there were many suitors, but whenever somebody asked Muhammad (SA) for Fatima’s hand in marriage he kept quiet. One day Ali (as) came to the mosque and asked for Fatima’s hand in marriage. Muhammad replied "Yes, this has been ordained by Allah." He asked , "What property do you have," to which Ali replied, "not much." He had a sword, a horse and a protective shield. Muhammad said "sell the shield, because you will need the horse and the sword for the protection of Islam." Ali sold his shield for 200 Dirhams, brought the money to Muhammad (SA) who added another 200 Dirhams over it and asked his companions to buy household goods to set up home for the newly weds. He then read the Khutba and finalised the marriage of Ali (as) and Fatima. This was in the First year of the Hijra. This was a simple Islamic marriage which should be copied by all muslims instead of spending lavish amounts of money and huge dowries to cripple the parents economically for ever."

 

Source: Story of the Holy Kaaba, written by S M R Shabbar, published by Muhammadi Trust of Great Britain and Ireland.

-----------------

 

Secondly,

 

Prophet Mohammad was born in the year of Elephant which is about 53 years before Hijrat

 

Hazrat Ali [a] was born when Prophet was about 30 years which is about 23 years before Hijrat

 

Hazrat Fatima Zehra was born 5 years after Hazrat Ali's birth which is about 18 years before Hijrat

 

Their marriage took place in the first year after Hijrat

Edited by ali786ali

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These are enough proofs, I've won my argument, the person who condemns child marriage will never marry a child himself. Even if people may cite some kind of compulsion, Holy Prophet was grandpa of Imam Husain [a] and Supreme Human, if Imam [a] can prefer death to a life with indignity and with agreement to the false, then even Holy Prophet by his Supreme Wisdom could devise a way and condemn marriage with Ayesha had she been a child. Social evils are never encouraged by wise people and Holy Prophet is wisest of all Humans. May Allah bring wisdom to people and be courteous to those who use it. Thanks a lot people and God is Great. Amen.

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Prophet Mohammad was born in the year of Elephant which is about 53 years before Hijrat

Hazrat Ali [a] was born when Prophet was about 30 years which is about 23 years before Hijrat

Hazrat Fatima Zehra was born 5 years after Hazrat Ali's birth which is about 18 years before Hijrat

Their marriage took place in the first year after Hijrat

The actual date of the marriage is unclear, but it most likely took place in 623, the second year of the hijra, although some sources say it was in 622. The age of Fatimah is reported to have been 9 or 19 (due to differences of opinion on the exact date of her birth i.e. 605 or 615) at the time of her marriage while Ali was between 21 and 25.

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then even Holy Prophet by his Supreme Wisdom could devise a way and condemn marriage with Ayesha had she been a child. Social evils are never encouraged by wise people and Holy Prophet is wisest of all Humans. May Allah bring wisdom to people and be courteous to those who use it. Thanks a lot people and God is Great. Amen.

Aisha was 18 when the Holy Prophet died. What does that tell you?

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O so in your view he would support child marriage. Ok so I think even you are among those who consider the Prophet to promote social evil. Thanks goodness, I marvel these people and I marvel you.


 

O so in your view he would support child marriage. Ok so I think even you are among those who consider the Prophet to promote social evil. Thanks goodness, I marvel these people and I marvel you.

Edited by ali786ali

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O so in your view he would support child marriage. Ok so I think even you are among those who consider the Prophet to promote social evil. Thanks goodness, I marvel these people and I marvel you.

If it's a historical fact that you can't handle, why not just be frank and say that a social evil was committed by the man you claim to follow? Is there any benefit to dismissing established historical dates for no reason and pretending they don't exist?

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"Muhammad’s daughter Fatima was about 19 years old and there were many suitors, but whenever somebody asked Muhammad (SA) for Fatima’s hand in marriage he kept quiet. One day Ali (as) came to the mosque and asked for Fatima’s hand in marriage. Muhammad replied "Yes, this has been ordained by Allah." He asked , "What property do you have," to which Ali replied, "not much." He had a sword, a horse and a protective shield. Muhammad said "sell the shield, because you will need the horse and the sword for the protection of Islam." Ali sold his shield for 200 Dirhams, brought the money to Muhammad (SA) who added another 200 Dirhams over it and asked his companions to buy household goods to set up home for the newly weds. He then read the Khutba and finalised the marriage of Ali (as) and Fatima. This was in the First year of the Hijra. This was a simple Islamic marriage which should be copied by all muslims instead of spending lavish amounts of money and huge dowries to cripple the parents economically for ever."

 

Source: Story of the Holy Kaaba, written by S M R Shabbar, published by Muhammadi Trust of Great Britain and Ireland.

-----------------

 

Secondly,

 

Prophet Mohammad was born in the year of Elephant which is about 53 years before Hijrat

 

Hazrat Ali [a] was born when Prophet was about 30 years which is about 23 years before Hijrat

 

Hazrat Fatima Zehra was born 5 years after Hazrat Ali's birth which is about 18 years before Hijrat

 

Their marriage took place in the first year after Hijrat

 

And the basis for these historical assumptions is what? What is the source? And how is that source more verifiable or reliable than the hadith sources?

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The actual date of the marriage is unclear, but it most likely took place in 623, the second year of the hijra, although some sources say it was in 622. The age of Fatimah is reported to have been 9 or 19 (due to differences of opinion on the exact date of her birth i.e. 605 or 615) at the time of her marriage while Ali was between 21 and 25.

It doesn't really matter if it was perfectly okay for kids to be married off a thousand years ago. We should not be tolerating such practices in the current days and age.

 

Children are not supposed to be used in sexual way. Children are not ready for marriages physically, emotionally or mentally.

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A Prophet does not marry for worldly desires and the ayat, INNAMA YUREEDULLAHO LE-YUZHEBA ANKUM ARRIJZA AHLULBAIT WA YO TAKKERAKUM TATHEERA. Swears to the stand that Prophet Mohammad and His Ahulbait [a] were aloof of all kinds of worldly desires.

 

Thus your statement is false in both cases. Neither the Prophet could favour Child Marriage for himself nor could he or his Ahlulbait marry for worldly gains.

Edited by ali786ali

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Thus your statement is false in both cases. Neither the Prophet could favour Child Marriage for himself nor could he or his Ahlulbait marry for worldly gains.

Still wilfully ignoring the primary sources that say he married a 9 or 10 year old girl. It's sad that you're unable to engage with reality.

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Just one question has remained unanswered my friend and that is the one which you have put up and repeated this time again, Prophet's marriage with a 9 years old. This will be proven as well. Just be ready for that. I'll bring up the most solid evidence to prove the age of Ayesha and related stuff at the time of her marriage with Holy Prophet . I will.

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Ladies and Gentlemen read this:

 

http://controversialislam.wordpress.com/ayeshas-age/

 

Ayesha’s Age

 

The following are research notes by Habib-ur-Rahman Kandhalwi as presented in his booklet, “Tehqiq-e-umar-e-Siddiqah-e-Ka’inat”, Anjuman Uswa-e-hasanah, Karachi, Pakistan. I have added footnotes at the end of this web page to provide additional references and to answer many objections that have been raised about Kandhalwi’s essay.

What was Ayesha’s (ra) Age at the Time of Her Marriage?

 

Research by Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi

 

“It is normally believed that she was nine years old at the time of her marriage with Mohammad (sws) was consummated. I do think it was according to the traditions of the Arab culture, as otherwise people would have objected to this marriage. But unfortunately, the modern day man is not satisfied with an answer as simple as that.

 

“To begin with, I think it is the responsibility of all those who believe that marrying a girl as young as nine years old was an accepted norm of the Arab culture, to provide at least a few examples to substantiate their point of view. I have not yet been able to find a single dependable instance in the books of Arab history where a girl as young as nine years old was given away in marriage. Unless such examples are given, we do not have any reasonable grounds to believe that it really was an accepted norm.

 

“In my opinion, the age of Ayesha (ra) has been grossly misreported in the ahadith. Not only that, I think that the narratives reporting this event are not only highly unreliable but also that on the basis of other historical data, the event reported, is quite an unlikely happening. Let us look at the issue from an objective stand point. My reservations in accepting the narratives, on the basis of which, Ayeshas (ra) age at the time of her marriage with the Prophet (pbuh) is held to be nine years are:

 

“Most of these narratives are reported only by Hisham ibn `urwah[1] reporting on the authority of his father. An event as well known as the one being reported, should logically have been reported by more people than just one, two or three.

 

“It is quite strange that no one from Medinah, where Hisham ibn `urwah lived the first seventy one years of his life has narrated the event, even though in Medinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas. All the narratives of this event have been reported by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have had shifted after living in Medinah for seventy one years.

 

“Tehzibu’l-tehzib, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) reports that according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah: ‘narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq’. It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham which were reported through people of Iraq. (vol 11, pg 48 – 51)

 

“Mizanu’l-ai`tidal, another book on the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) reports that when he was old, Hisham’s memory suffered quite badly. (vol 4, pg 301 – 302)

 

“According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha (ra) was born about eight years before Hijrah. But according to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu’l-tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur’an, was revealed, “I was a young girl”. The 54th surah of the Qur’an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why we should not accept this narrative to be more accurate. [2]

 

[...]


“According to a number of narratives, Ayesha  accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud. Furthermore, it is also reported in books of hadith and history that no one under the age of 15 years was allowed totake part in the battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 years of age were sent back. Ayesha’s  participation in the battle of Badr and Uhud clearly indicate that she was not nine or ten years old at that time. After all, women used to accompany men to the battle fields to help them, not to be a burden on them.[3]

 

“According to almost all the historians Asma , the elder sister of Ayesha  was ten years older than Ayesha . It is reported in Taqri’bu’l-tehzi’b as well as Al-bidayah wa’l-nihayah that Asma  died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma  was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma  was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha  should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha , if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.[4]

 

“Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history, while mentioning Abu Bakr reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah – the pre Islamic period. Obviously, if Ayesha was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH — the time she most likely got married.

 

“According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Ayesha accepted Islam quite some time before Umar ibn Khattab (ra). This shows that Ayesha accepted Islam during the first year of Islam. While, if the narrative of Ayesha’s (ra) marriage at seven years of age is held to be true, Ayesha (ra) should not have been born during the first year of Islam. [5]

 

“Tabari has also reported that at the time Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Habshah (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am — with whose son Ayesha (ra) was engaged — and asked him to take Ayesha (ra) in his house as his son’s wife. Mut`am refused, because Abu Bakr had embraced Islam. Now, if Ayesha (ra) was only seven years old at the time of her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Habshah. On the basis of this report it seems only reasonable to assume that Ayesha (ra) had not only been born 8 years before hijrah, but was also a young lady, quite prepared for marriage.[6]

 

“According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah  (ra), when Khaulah  (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: “You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)”. When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha’s (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word “bikr” in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is “Jariyah”. “Bikr” on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a “lady”.

 

“According to Ibn Hajar, Fatimah (ra) was five years older than Ayesha (ra). Fatimah (ra) is reported to have been born when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old. Thus, even if this information is taken to be correct, Ayesha (ra) could by no means be less than 14 years old at the time of hijrah, and 15 or 16 years old at the time of her marriage.[7]

 

“These are some of the major points that go against accepting the commonly known narrative regarding Ayesha’s (ra) age at the time of her marriage.

“In my opinion, neither was it an Arab tradition to give away girls in marriage at an age as young as nine or ten years, nor did the Prophet (pbuh) marry Ayesha (ra) at such a young age. The people of Arabia did not object to this marriage, because it never happened in the manner it has been narrated.”

 

Possible Reason Why Aisha’s Age May Have Been Misrepresented

 

On the authority of Aisha (ra), who said:

 

I used to play with dolls in the presence of the Prophet (SAW). And I had girl- friends (playmates) who played along with me. They would hide (feeling shy) from him (SAW) whenever he entered. But, he (SAW) would send for them to join me and they would play with me. (Sahih Bukhari & Muslim)

 

First of all, It is obvious to Arabs and Muslims that the term “hide” and feeling shy means that Muslim girls and women cover themselves with a veil or find cover behind a chador when a non-’maharm’ enters a room in private quarters. And according to Shaykh Muhammad Shams al-Haqq al-’Adheem Aabaadee, the words “When he (SAW) came in , they went out, ” meaning the young girls would go out because of shyness and awe [of the Messenger of Allah (SAW)].”

 

It is obvious from Hadith literature and other sources that Aisha’s (r.a) age was most likely misquoted because Muslim ulemaa (scholars) couldn’t explain the troubling contradiction that Aisha kept dolls at a time when there was a general prohibition on figurines. My theory, which I shall prove below, is that since Aisha (r.a.) didn’t have any children of her known, she was permitted by Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) to keep dolls, as there was no danger of her worshipping these figurines. She probably also shared her toys with other children. One way that muhadithoon (schaolars of Hadith) have justified this is by portraying Aisha as a little girl. The Hadith above is just example of how this was achieved. Any evidence to the contrary, which Kandhalwi has so convincingly presented, was simply ignored.

 

The proof that Aisha (r.a.) kept dolls even when she had grown up can be found from this Hadith:

 

Abu Dawud

 

Book 41, Number 4914:

 

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu’minin:

 

“When the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) arrived after the expedition to Tabuk or Khaybar (the narrator is doubtful), the draught raised an end of a curtain which was hung in front of her store-room, revealing some dolls which belonged to her. He asked: What is this? She replied: My dolls. Among them he saw a horse with wings made of rags, and asked: What is this I see among them? She replied: A horse. He asked: What is this that it has on it? She replied: Two wings. He asked: A horse with two wings? She replied: Have you not heard that Solomon had horses with wings? She said: Thereupon the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) laughed so heartily that I could see his molar teeth.”

[Abu Daawood, An-Nasaa'iee as-Sunan al-Kubraa, Albani (ra) says the chain of narrators of an-Nasaa'ee is authentic (Saheeh). As for the chain of narrators of Abu Daawood, Albani (ra) has also declared it to be authentic (saheeh)]

 

The expedition to Tabuk took place in 9.A.H and to Khabar at 7 A.H. If it is assumed that Aishah got married in 1 A.H at the age of nine, then even at age of 16 or 18 she must have still kept her dolls. Therefore, using dolls to establish her age doesn’t make any sense.

 

In Sahih Muslim, there are two Ahadith but it says that they are narrated from Hisham, See Book 31, #5982. And we have already discussed unreliability of this narration from Hisham. Muslim was a student of Bukhari and almost certainly, all these Ahadith are narrated through Hisham or through people of Iraq who knew him.

 

That the keeping of figurines and the hadith above have been a topic of discussion for Muslim scholars. And because of obvious contradictions, the ulemaa have either glossed over it or have tried to explain to by making Aisha (r.a.) seem like a little girl. The following are some examples of this flawed thinking:

  • Al-Haafidh Ibn Hajar said in Fath al-Baaree (Fath al-Baaree, no. 6130, Kitaab: al-Adab, Baab: al-Inbisaat ilaa an-Naas): This Hadith has been used as a proof for the permissibility of possessing (suwar - of) dolls and toys for the purpose of the little girls playing with them. This has been especially exempted from the general prohibition of possession of images (suwar).
  • Al-Khattaabee said: From this hadith it is understood that playing with dolls (al- banaat) is not like the amusement from other images (suwar) concerning which the threat (wa’eed) of punishment is mentioned. The only reason why permission in this was given to Aisha (ra) is because she had not, at that time, reached the age of puberty.
  • [al-Haafidh says:] I say: To say with certainty, (that she was not yet at the age of puberty) is questionable, though it might possibly be so. This, because Aisha (ra) was a fourteen year old girl at the time of the battle of Khaibar, either exactly fourteen years old, or having just passed her fourteenth year (and entering into the fifteenth year), or approaching it (the fourteenth year).
  • As for her age at the time of the Battle of Tabook, she had by then definitely reached the age of puberty. Therefore, the strongest view is that of those who said: “It was in Khaibar” (i.e., when she was not yet at the age of puberty), and made reconciliation (jam’) [between the apparent contradictory rulings, of permissibility of dolls, in particular, and the prohibition of images, in general] with what al-Khattaabee said (all young girls). This, because to reconcile (make jam’) is better than to assume the ahaadith to be in contradiction (at-ta’aarud). [End of quotation from al-Haafidh Ibn Hajar]. (Fath al-Baree)

Any serious person reading this would come to the conclusion that Hadiths regarding Ayesha’s age were compromised in order to avoid a much greater controversy (Prophet’s own wife keeping figurines when other Muslims were forbidden from doing so): On one hand, Hadith compilers wanted Aisha (r.a.) to be at or below puberty when a Hadith mentions Aisha (r.a) having dolls, but at the same time, they were faced with a contradiction that she could not possibly have been less than 18 years old_ way beyond puberty_ when she had dolls.

 

If it is assumed that Aisha (r.a.) collected dolls, and that Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) allowed her because she considered these figurines as toys and not as idols, the problem is resolved and there is no need to twist the truth or to defend something which was clearly an error.

 

Doesn’t This Make Hadith Literature Less Reliable?

 

Absolutely not. Because it is Hadith literature which is correcting itself. All the accounts relating to Aisha’s (r.a) age are so similar that they must have originated from one person other than Ayesha and the Hadith compilers were not always looking at the contradictions that we now find in different accounts.

 

FOOTNOTES

 

[1] An objection is made that Tabari also mentions Aisha’s age as 9 at the time of her marriage and do not have Hisham in the chain. See Tabari (volume 7, page 7, and volume 9, page 129.

 

In Volume 7, the narration has a broken chain and in Volume 9 Tabari narrates a long story and it is not clear where the narration actually ends. Tabari lists Ayesha’s age at the end of a paragraph as if he is providing additional information for his readers. It is unlikely that such a long story would be remembered verbatim. However, in the same narration, Ayesha is called a “maiden” (bikr) not a child (jariyah), which would imply that she was a young woman. In the other narration that Tabari provides, it is reported through Hisham ibn urwah.” Tabari, who was born in 839 in Iran, was simply quoting what he heard from other sources without verifying them. The stories that have been quoted are so similar in account that they must have come from a single source, which then were repeated infinitum.

 

In Volume XI of Tabari (published by SUNY), the translator points out the apparent contradiction. The footnote says, ” This statement [that the four children of Abu Bakr's were born in the period of Jahilia] appears to contradict the alleged age of Aishah of nine years at the time of the consummation of her marriage to the Prophet in Shawaal 9April-May 623]…Even if she was born at the end of Jahiliyyah period, in 609 C.E. she would have been at least thirteen solar years old by the year 1/622-23.”

 

[2] Another objection is made that Maududi disagrees with the statement that this sura was revealed nine years before the Hijrah: The incident of the shaqq-al-Qamar (splitting of the moon) that has been mentioned in it, determines its period of revelation precisely. The traditionists and commentators are agreed that this incident took place at Mina in Makkah about five years before the Holy Prophet’s Hijra to Madinah. However, According to M.M. Khatib, another scholar and author of “The Bounteous Koran” authorized by al-Azhar University, the 54th chapter of the Quran was revealed eight years before Hijrah. Even if it is accepted that Surah al-Qamar was revealed five years before Hijrah, Ayesha would have to be three years old_ basically a child (sibyah)_ and not a young girl (jariyah).

 

[3] Some non-Muslims have made the objection that since Aisha had reached puberty and was considered an adult, she was able to accompany the soldiers to the battlefield. Also, the women were not combatants. They fetched water, and gave aid to the wounded, but did not participate in the actual fighting. However it seems unlikely that a a nine year old girl could be helping the war wounded but a boy 13 years of age couldn’t.

 

[4] Additional References for Asma’s age:

Ibn Khatir: “she [Asma] was elder to her sister [Ayesha] by ten years”. (Al-Bidayah wa’l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol 8, Pg 371, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933).

Abda’l-Rahman ibn abi zanna’d:Asma (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha. (Siyar A`la’ma’l-nubala’, Al-Zahabi, Vol 2, Pg 289, Arabic, Mu’assasatu’l-risalah, Beirut, 1992)

Ibn Khatir: “She [Asma] saw the killing of her son during that year [i.e. 73 AH], as we have already mentioned, five days later she herself died, according to other narratives her death was not five but ten or twenty or a few days over twenty or a hundred days later. The most well known narrative is that of hundred days later. At the time of her death, she was 100 years old.” (Al-Bidayah wa’l-nihayah, Ibn Kathir, Vol 8, Pg 372, Arabic, Dar al-fikr al-`arabi, Al-jizah, 1933)

Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani: “She [Asma (ra)] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH.” (Taqribu’l-tehzib, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, Pg 654, Arabic, Bab fi’l-nisa’, al-harfu’l-alif, Lucknow).

 

[5] According to the story in Ibn Ishaq’s Seerah, when Umar, still a non-Muslim, came to kill the Prophet and that that time the migration to Abbysinnia had already taken place_ we don’t know for how many years. Ibn Ishaq writes, ” …Umar came out, girt with his sword, making for the apostle, and a number of his companions, who he had been informed had gathered in a house at al-Safa, in all about forty, including women. With the apostle was his uncle Hamza, and Abu Bakr, and Ali, from among the Muslims who stayed with the apostle and had not gone out with those who went to Abbysinia.” That means that Aisha who was Abu Bakr’s daughter must have accepted Islam before Umar (r.a) . Umar (r.a) accepted Islam in 616 CE. If Aishah was born in 612 CE, then she had to have accepted Islam as soon as she was born.! This also contradicts Tabari’s statement that all four children of Abu Bakr were born in Jahiliyah (before 610 CE.).

 

According to Ibn Hisham, Ayesha (ra) was the 20th or the 21st person to enter into the folds of Islam (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 227 – 234, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh) While `umar ibn al-khattab was preceded by forty individuals (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 295, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh).

 

[6] In Tabari, Volume 9, page 29, there is a note that it was Khawlah bint Hakim who originally proposed that the Prophet either marry Aisha, who is called a “maiden” (bikr) or marry Sawdah. If the marriage was controversial or socially unacceptable in any way, why would Khawlah even propose such a thing? It doesn’t seem that Khawlah would be talking about a child. As I have stated above, Tabari contradicts himself on this issue and therefore the narrations that he has quoted are all suspect.

 

[7] According to Ibn Hajar, ” Fatimah was born at the time the Ka’bah was rebuilt, when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old… she (Fatimah) was five years older than Ayeshah.” (See al-Isabah fi tamyizi l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol. 4, p. 377, Maktabutu’l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh, 1978).

 

 

 

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Are you trying to prove to us Shias that Aisha was more than 9 years old using Sunni sources? Are you for real dude?

 

Don't be afraid my friend, I will bring forth the proofs from the authentic Shia sources as well.

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What I have found out while taking a look on various previous discussions upon Ayesha's age that people have provided good and logical explanations about Ayesha's age at the time of marriage with the Holy Prophet .

 

Including this one:

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/44572-aishas-age-when-she-got-married/

 

actually replying to the above posts you can find out her age by simple deduction of sahih hadith. i say 19.

observe: when ayesha went to fight Imam Ali she was exactly 55. Imam Ali (as) was 61. This battle took place 30 years after the Prophet (pbuh and his holy family) died. 55-30=25. The prophet died in 11 AH but married ayesha in 3 AH. 11-3=8, 25-8=17. i say 19 because some hadith say whe was 57.


so..... clear as mud biggrin.gif


quick recap
age of ayesha when she fought Imam Ali (as) =55 or 57

age of Imam Ali at that time =61

amount of years after the prophet died=30

age of ayesha at the prophets death=25 or 27

number of years they were married=8

25-8=17 or 27-8=19

and there you have it.

 

 

And I have noticed that only the Shia people have problem with her age and only they are adamant to it. The only excuse that Shia's have is that the explanations are from Historical or Sunni references just like my brother asked me in the previous message.

 

The Shia books which I have referred so far have given only rough statement about the age of Ayesha as 9. They are not backed by any statement from any Imam [a] saying that Ayesha's age at the time of marriage was 9. Including the book Hayat ul Quloob, there is only a rough statement which is not backed by a statement from any Imam [a].

What people have quoted instead to show Imam's [a] statement is this:

 

 

Narrated Abu Abdillah (A.S) said: If a man married a girl while she is little, then he should enter upon her until she has completed nine years old" [Al-Kafi Vol 5 p. 398, Al-Tahtheeb Vol 7. p.391, Wasael Al-Shia Vol. 20 p.101]
 

These statements though might be a part of Islamic Jurisprudence but in these statements there is no reference to Ayesha in these statements.

Plus the statement says that, "If" a man married a girl while she is little.

 

This indicates that it is an exceptional case and not a usual case and Imam [a] does not say that it is permissible to marry a girl of less age except under abnormal circumstances and then 'if' such marriage happens then the precaution is must atleast until the girl attains the age of 9.


 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/235010463-turns-out-aisha-may-not-have-been-9-after-all/?hl=%2Bayesha#entry2538324

 

Haydar Husayn

Haydar Husayn

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:40 AM

Quite an interesting argument as these things go. However, the 'problem' isn't really so much in proving that `Aisha was older than 9, rather it would be explaining all the many Shia ahadith that say it is ok to marry a 9 year old, even in mut`a, with no reference to `Aisha.

The only real 'argument' I could think of for such a widespread conspiracy would be that the people of Iraq had a thing for marrying 9 year olds (since the Shia narrations would go through Iraqis). And obviously that doesn't sound very convincing.

 

 

Now it is the time to pick the various Ahadith on age of marriage and explain them. 

Edited by ali786ali

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Sick, sick, and more sick...

And the posters who are advocating children marrying, should read this.

 

A surprising number of SCers would go to any length to rationalise child marriage but I wonder if today they'd let their own 9-year-olds to get married.

Edited by Marbles

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A surprising number of SCers would go to any length to rationalise child marriage but I wonder if today they'd let their own 9-year-olds to get married.

 

A 7th Century 9 year old Woman is not the same as a 9 year old child living in the 21st Century. It is an unfair comparison. 

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Agreed. And the literalists of SC fail to comprehend it.

 

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that it is permissible. Whether I or you like it or not they are not wrong. Not everything that is permissible is always good for us or recommended. It means there is no sin attached to that act. 

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Salam aleykum, brothers and sisters,

 

My mother-in-law was married when she was about eleven, but my father-in-law was about seventeen. She told me of that terrible experience, it was in South Iraq, and the half of the womenfolk of her husbands family were watching. She was instructed to resist as long as possible, as that is the thing honorable girls do, and was finally raped by him. The bloody handkerchief was presented to her in-laws, they were relieved at this proof of her virginity and everyone was happy and satisfied. And then the hell with her abusive new husband and his even more abusive old mother started, a thing that is usually called marriage... 

 

And let's not pretend the girl in Yemen is a lone victim, it happens in many Islamic (and non-Islamic) countries even as we are writing (and reading) this...  But abolishing the customs that have been practiced for thousands of years is the most difficult thing in the world... 

 

What really angers me when the defenders of such customs call it "the Islamic way" and start mentioning Sayyida Zahra (as) or Aisha or... Why is it so easy to accept that the slavery was abolished, even if it was commonplace during the lives of the Prophet (saas) and the Imams (as), but we keep clinging to the child-brides as if it's written that it has never to be changed? Some habits linger and some die away and it is the normal way of historical development, so why are we attacking anyone who posts that he/she thinks it's bad, as if they are attacking the Prophet (saas) or Imams (as) themselves? (Which we are NOT!!!)

 

Wassalam

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It's very sicking, I dont think children should marry at a young age. The only reason why we mention yeman so much is because it's a habbit their, am not saying its not happening world.

How could people watch a person getting rapped and not do much about it. It's pathitic how the same people that justife such marriages, also justife rape and slaviery.

I dont know if you seen that 9 year old yeman girl running away from her home because she didnt want to marry. Parents in such countries need to be educated. What amina stated happens in egypte too, you have people watching and not doing much. Alot of girls die on the same night, yet no one cares and their are still father out there sell their daughter to ugly men, just because his rich or he owns him stuff.

Some men marry children and divorce their older woman,they keep divorcing so they can get a younger girl and use islam to justify their act. One thing I dont understand is if a woman goes throu such thing, how could she have the heart to let another woman go throu the same thing. I know in most of those countries a woman may not have the power to stop such a marriage but surely they should have a law that prevents a child from marrying a older man and they should protect the mother and daughter if they come and complain about the father wanting to marry his 8 year old daughter.

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A 7th Century 9 year old Woman is not the same as a 9 year old child living in the 21st Century. It is an unfair comparison. 

Yes exactly, its not just bulugh (puberty) that's a factor in the legitimacy of a consummated marriage but also rushd (maturity). Women had a very mature mindset at an early stage in many pre-modern cultures - based on their upbringing and environment. In the 21st century western upbringing (a legacy of colonialism) this certainly isn't the case. It's also dangerous for poor families because a lot of these daughters they want to marry off tend to be malnourished, which leads to injuries and other horrors.

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