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Modest Muslim

Khamenei Or Sistani?

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You sure you are Shia ??. Here I was thinking that Shias believed the 12th Imam was in occultation !!!

 

You misunderstood what he was trying to say. He is Talking about the issue of Taqlid.

And yes the Twelfth Imam is in Occultation.

(salam)

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Debate on who is superior at a public form is not advisable as everyone have their own views.

 

 

Seconded. 

 

Both are great scholars, operating in very different situations. All you'll mostly get from a thread like this, will be trash responses such as 'khamenei doesn't even have a risalah, he isn't knowledgeable enough/ what has sistani done to fight the enemies', etc etc   

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They are answering the way quetion is being put. that is why somtimes we find different anwers from both of them on a same quesiton.I believe both are of equal caliber..........its our understanding has some loopholes and not in there guidance ,.....!

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You misunderstood what he was trying to say. He is Talking about the issue of Taqlid.

And yes the Twelfth Imam is in Occultation.

(salam)

 

I know what he was trying to say but his reasoning and 'proof' was faulty !! . 

 

His statement was faulty from start to finish and not consistent with Shia beliefs

Edited by A true Sunni

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You sure you are Shia ??. Here I was thinking that Shias believed the 12th Imam was in occultation !!!

 

Yes, I'm a Shia Muslim. Yes, Imam Muhammad ibn Hasan al Mahdi (as) is in occultation.

 

I know what he was trying to say but his reasoning and 'proof' was faulty !! . 

 

His statement was faulty from start to finish and not consistent with Shia beliefs

 

If you know what I was trying to say then you shouldn't had criticized me for what you've already understood. My proof and reasoning weren't faulty rather you're trying to make'em look faulty.

 

You're not a Shia Muslim, brother. All my posts and comments were consistent with Shia Muslim beliefs.

Edited by Modest Muslim

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Yes, I'm a Shia Muslim. Yes, Imam Muhammad ibn Hasan al Mahdi (as) is in occultation.

 

 

If you know what I was trying to say then you shouldn't had criticized me for what you've already understood. My proof and reasoning weren't faulty rather you're trying to make'em look faulty.

 

You're not a Shia Muslim, brother. All my posts and comments were consistent with Shia Muslim beliefs.

 

 

Lets look at your statement and tell me where it was correct. Suprised people 'liked' your comment seems to be people write comments without thinking them through and people like them without reading them.

 

You said     'if taqlid of dead would be halal we would be doing taqlid of  Imams not Ayatullahs'.

 

Shia Ithna Asheria believe in the occultation of the 12th Imam.

12th Imam is alive not dead

The 12th Imam is your ultimate authority on this Earth

Having an alive Imam does not mean you cannot do Taqlid of an Ayatullah

Taqlid is in the absense (non-contactability) of an Imam

 

Simple really. DO you see where your logic and statement is faulty from start to finish or do you want me to spell it further.

 

Just because I understood you but your statement was totally wrong do you think I should accept it. There are others on this thread who may think your faulty statement is correct !!

Edited by A true Sunni

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Lets look at your statement and tell me where it was correct. Suprised people 'liked' your comment seems to be people write comments without thinking them through and people like them without reading them.

 

You said     'if taqlid of dead would be halal we would be doing taqlid of  Imams not Ayatullahs'.

 

Shia Ithna Asheria believe in the occultation of the 12th Imam.

12th Imam is alive not dead

The 12th Imam is your ultimate authority on this Earth

Having an alive Imam does not mean you cannot do Taqlid of an Ayatullah

Taqlid is in the absense (non-contactability) of an Imam

 

Simple really. DO you see where your logic and statement is faulty from start to finish or do you want me to spell it further.

 

Just because I understood you but your statement was totally wrong do you think I should accept it. There are others on this thread who may think your faulty statement is correct !!

 

Brother, just look at your own previous admission.

 

I know what he was trying to say but his reasoning and 'proof' was faulty !! .

 

 

 

I didn't mean that our Imams are dead. I didn't mean that Imam Mahdi (as) is not alive. And you know what I meant. What else is this that what you're criticizing isn't the topic being discussed here, pal.

 

If we begin to criticize each other like this then we're gonna make it difficult for us to speak. :D

Edited by Modest Muslim

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(salam)

 

I was first in taqlid of Ayatollah Khamenei but later I replaced him with Ayatollah Sistani. I think I am in his taqlid now.

 

Reasons:

1) Ayatollah Sistani is more knowledgeable than Ayatollah Khamenei. I came to this conclusion after visiting their websites. Ayatollah Sistani has solved more modern problems as compared to those solved by Ayatollah Khamenei. There are many examples:

     A. Adoption

     B. Gelatin

     C. Purity of People of the Book

     D. Brain death

     E. Contraception

 

2) Ayatollah Khamenei is unaware of some religious affairs like he believes its halal to play chess. I myself asked him whether I can play chess or not and I was replied:

 

 

However, Ayatollah Sistani deems it haram to play chess.

 

These points made me convert from Khamenei-ism to Sistani-ism. What do you all say?

 

That's the reason? You're sucha kebab! The reason why chess was haraam is because people would bet on the games.

Sistani is too darn backwards or 'classical' if you like.

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That's the reason? You're sucha kebab! The reason why chess was haraam is because people would bet on the games.

Sistani is too darn backwards or 'classical' if you like.

 

Don't be dumb. Chess is haram because it can turn you into a zombie. And if you too think that it's haram then why did Ayatollah Khamenei allow us to play it?

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(salam)

Don't be dumb. Chess is haram because it can turn you into a zombie. And if you too think that it's haram then why did Ayatollah Khamenei allow us to play it?

So can everything.

Study can turn you into a zombie, that doesn't mean it is haram- same goes for working.

Chess in moderation is halal, as it is a test of ones intellect

 

(Wasalam)

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Brother, just look at your own previous admission.

 

 

 

I didn't mean that our Imams are dead. I didn't mean that Imam Mahdi (as) is not alive. And you know what I meant. What else is this that what you're criticizing isn't the topic being discussed here, pal.

 

If we begin to criticize each other like this then we're gonna make it difficult for us to speak. :D

 

Do you really want me to spell out what my admission was..... I was being polite.

 

You make a glaring mistake in your statement and then get huffy when people correct you. Just be thankful that you have the anonymity of the internet to thank. Imagine being pulled up by someone because you are saying all the Imams are deceased.

 

All I ask is accuracy of speech

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(salam)

 

I was first in taqlid of Ayatollah Khamenei but later I replaced him with Ayatollah Sistani. I think I am in his taqlid now.

 

Reasons:

1) Ayatollah Sistani is more knowledgeable than Ayatollah Khamenei. I came to this conclusion after visiting their websites. Ayatollah Sistani has solved more modern problems as compared to those solved by Ayatollah Khamenei. There are many examples:

     A. Adoption

     B. Gelatin

     C. Purity of People of the Book

     D. Brain death

     E. Contraception

 

2) Ayatollah Khamenei is unaware of some religious affairs like he believes its halal to play chess. I myself asked him whether I can play chess or not and I was replied:

 

 

However, Ayatollah Sistani deems it haram to play chess.

 

These points made me convert from Khamenei-ism to Sistani-ism. What do you all say?

Chess, like kite flying are prohibited in sahih hadith. That is why I gave up chess.

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(salam)

So can everything.

Study can turn you into a zombie, that doesn't mean it is haram- same goes for working.

Chess in moderation is halal, as it is a test of ones intellect

 

(wasalam)

 

No, you can't say that for study. I follow Ayatollah Sistani now and he says that chess is haram. I've already proved why chess is haram. Chess is the enemy of your time, brain and health. 

Do you really want me to spell out what my admission was..... I was being polite.

 

You make a glaring mistake in your statement and then get huffy when people correct you. Just be thankful that you have the anonymity of the internet to thank. Imagine being pulled up by someone because you are saying all the Imams are deceased.

 

All I ask is accuracy of speech

 

I was being polite as well. Don't threaten me to be impolite. 

 

I've answered you already and can only repeat myself now.

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No, you can't say that for study. I follow Ayatollah Sistani now and he says that chess is haram. I've already proved why chess is haram. Chess is the enemy of your time, brain and health. 

 

I was being polite as well. Don't threaten me to be impolite. 

 

I've answered you already and can only repeat myself now.

 

If you believe chess is haram because it weakens your brain. Quite clearly you are classic example of this if you deem to stand in judgement of Ayatullah Khameni and Sistani but havent even learnt the basics of Shiaism yet to understand and occultation and taqled

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If you believe chess is haram because it weakens your brain. Quite clearly you are classic example of this if you deem to stand in judgement of Ayatullah Khameni and Sistani but havent even learnt the basics of Shiaism yet to understand and occultation and taqled

 

Hey, tell me a little secret. Are you taking some kind of medicine these days? 

 

Look, pal. you're getting on my nerves now. Are you an idiot? I know the basics of Shia Islam better than you, you goofball! I know what taqlid and occultation is. Don't teach me what I already know.

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Hey, tell me a little secret. Are you taking some kind of medicine these days? 

 

Look, pal. you're getting on my nerves now. Are you an idiot? I know the basics of Shia Islam better than you, you goofball! I know what taqlid and occultation is. Don't teach me what I already know.

 

when you withdraw your comment about 'dead Imams' I will. Your arrogance is astounding. To dismiss a basic mistake in fiqh with with well u know what I meant is very far from being a 'modest muslim' 

 

If you guys who came on here had attended basic Islamic teachings in Madrassah you wouldnt be making stupid mistakes and then lack the gumtion to with draw a faulty comment

Edited by A true Sunni

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when you withdraw your comment about 'dead Imams' I will. Your arrogance is astounding. To dismiss a basic mistake in fiqh with with well u know what I meant is very far from being a 'modest muslim' 

 

If you guys who came on here had attended basic Islamic teachings in Madrassah you wouldnt be making stupid mistakes and then lack the gumtion to with draw a faulty comment

 

Did someone bribe you to come and annoy me? I won't withdraw my comment. If we begin to withdraw such comments then it'll be difficult for us to speak. You think that you're a very learned person however you're just wasting my and your time here, pal. That comment of mine was nothing special. It was part of an important debate. If you wanna join that debate then come on in. If you wanna discuss such petty issued like 'using this and that word' then I'm sorry. I'm not here as an infallible. I'm not here to speak infallibly.

 

I had attended basic teachings and I know Islam better than you. And that comment wasn't a mistake. I believe in life of Imams.

If taqlid of a dead would be halal then we would be in taqlid of Imams rather than Ayatollahs.

 

Brother, taqlid means to follow the best of all scholars who is available to solve your modern problems. Dead is not accessible to all of us. That's why  those scholars declared it forbidden to follow a dead marja. Yes, some scholars believe you can follow a dead marja in the issues you've followed him in his lifetime.

 

 

 

That was my full comment. And that comment had no fault in it. Take it literally (because I wrote it literally) and you'll find no fault in it. Imams are not available to all of us now. They're not accessible to all of us now. As for the 12th Imam so he's just like his 11 predecessors because he's in occultation. But even if an extremist like you believes that it wasn't a correct statement then have a look at this:

 

If taqlid of a dead would be halal then we would be in taqlid of Imams rather than Ayatollahs.

(And take my comment literally)

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Did someone bribe you to come and annoy me? I won't withdraw my comment. If we begin to withdraw such comments then it'll be difficult for us to speak. You think that you're a very learned person however you're just wasting my and your time here, pal. That comment of mine was nothing special. It was part of an important debate. If you wanna join that debate then come on in. If you wanna discuss such petty issued like 'using this and that word' then I'm sorry. I'm not here as an infallible. I'm not here to speak infallibly.

 

I had attended basic teachings and I know Islam better than you. And that comment wasn't a mistake. I believe in life of Imams.

 

That was my full comment. And that comment had no fault in it. Take it literally (because I wrote it literally) and you'll find no fault in it. Imams are not available to all of us now. They're not accessible to all of us now. As for the 12th Imam so he's just like his 11 predecessors because he's in occultation. But even if an extremist like you believes that it wasn't a correct statement then have a look at this:

 

i can see you are the type of person who is forever destined to change their Marje because they always think they are right and everyone else is wrong. Maybe you should change your Nick to Arrogant Muslim it sort of fits you better.

 

I wont even bother responding to the rest of the garbage you have written because it is built on shaky grounds.

 

A person who says he is

Ithna Asheria

then says all the Imams are dead hence the the need to do Taqleed

refuses to withdraw the original comment but trys to justify it

Calls himself modest muslim

sits in judgement of Ayatulluh Khameni

defends the indefensible by saying 'why are you taking it literally'

You sound like a Malang wannabe who does taqleed because out of habit.

So how many years did you attend Madrassah

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(wasalam)

 

Why do you follow Ayatollah Sistani? Why don't you follow Ayatollah Khamenei? What's your criteria for following a person? My criteria is knowledge. Moreover, of two people are equal in knowledge then how should we chose one of them because we can't follow two people at a time? Answer all these questions and then you'll know how important my thread is.

 

Because Sayyid Sistani is the more popular Marja`, in terms of the following by Usooli Imami Shi`as around the world. He was nominated by Sayyid Khoei [rh] himself who was perhaps the most knowledgable man in the last century. Also, I am not particularly convinced by the concept of WF. 

The criteria is not something we make. The criteria is set and that is being the most knowledgable. But laymen who only visit the Maraji's website are no one to decide who is the most knowledgable based on a couple of fataawa they've seen or heard about. Also, I have read that Sayyid Khamenei has himself said that he is not the most knowledgable for those outside Iran.

 

I guess in a scenario when two people are equally knowledgable (which is unlikely) I would go with the one who is more popular as a Marja. And it is possible to be able to follow two Maraji in certain matters. The fact that you're unaware of this should be proof enough that you are not sufficiently knowledgable to be able to decide who is the most knowledgable Marja`. What are your 'Islamic credentials'? You haven't become a scholar just by reading Tohfatul Awaam cover to cover. Have you read any ahadith books? Which ones? Do you even know about our most authoritative texts?

 

I should also point out that by acting the way you are (judging by a few fatawa) you are acting in clear disobedience to the fataawa of Sayyid Sistani too. From his website:

3. There are three ways of identifying a Mujtahid, and the A'alam:

  • when a person is certain that a particular person is a Mujtahid, or the most learned one. For this, he should be a learned person himself, and should possess the capacity to identify a Mujtahid or an A'alam;
  • when two persons, who are learned and just and possess the capacity to identify a Mujtahid or the A'alam, confirm that a person is a Mujtahid or an A'lam, provided that two other learned and just persons do not contradict them. In fact, being a Mujt ahid or an A'lam can also be established by a statement of only one trusted and reliable person;
  • when a number of learned persons who possess the capacity to identify a Mujtahid or an A'lam, certify that a particular person is a Mujtahid or an A'lam, provided that one is satisfied by their statement.

 

---

 

Their websites are the best sources for their verdicts.

 

Wrong. Has anyone of them ever said that the best source of knowledge about their verdicts is their website? And again, the verdicts are not a condition for judging who is the most knowledgable. You just read Sayyid Sistani's ruling above yourself. 

 

Ayatollah Sistani solved modern problems and displayed them over his website. If he could do so then why couldn't Ayatollah Khamenei? I love and respect him but can't I question him? Can't I ask His Holiness Ayatollah Khamenei (and I really consider him as a sacred person) why don't he tell us what his view is on modern issues?

 

 

I don't know. Perhaps no one has asked him the question yet? I can think of hundreds of problems the solutions to which are up on neither websites. What am I supposed to do then? Follow no one because none of them cared enough to think of them and have them put up on their website?

You can ask Sayyid Khamenei by sending him a question on the website. As per you, the answer would be 'He doesn't know.' which I assure won't be the case. Or if you really are passionate about your query (which I assume you're not) you would go and ask him yourself. But no. You've made the website the ultimate source of your knowledge, apparently. What is not on there, doesn't exist! 

 

Ayatollah Khamenei said that chess was halal. Ayatollah Sistani said that chess was haram. My question is: Why is there such huge a difference between them? Moreover, why're there so many maraji? Why aren't we in taqlid of only one marja? Why does a man make one thing halal but another one make it haram? Why do we discuss unity between Shia and non-Shia Muslims but aren't united ourselves?The difference is because they're two different people with two different viewpoint. If every Marja agreed on everything there wouldn't be a need for so many of them. Chess is a nonissue if you really think about it. Nobody is forcing you to play it. As someone who is aware of his own ultimate responsibility to God, knowing that another Marja has disallowed chess, would avoid chess completely if he is in the Taqlid of someone who has allowed chess. As for the Marja who has allowed chess he has his own responsibility to God of not prohibiting what is permitted by God. It's not so simple as white or black, yes or not, Halal or Haram. 

 

There are so many Maraji' because there are so many learned people around, Alhumdulillah. We can't practically follow more than one Marja` because if there is a difference between them you'd have to decide on who's ruling to act upon by reasoning yourself which really defeats the purpose of Taqlid.

There is no disunity. We are all still Shi`a Muslims. We can have differences but our Madhab and 98% of practices are the same. We shall not be punished if we act with the intention of Qurbatan Ilallah, inshaAllah (this obviously doesn't mean you have the license to do anything with that intention).

 

I didn't accuse anyone of anything, brother. It is you guys who're attacking me and trying to portray me as a conspirator who is here to malign Shia Muslim scholars. I'm here to point you towards a serious problem.

 

 

I have failed to see the problem that you are claiming you have identified. The opening post was an announcement that you've switched Marjas based on what you got off the internet and Tohafatul Awam. 

 

And what did you say? Why don't you think before speaking? You said, 'I don't go as far as to say Sayyid Khamenei or the scores of other mujtahideen have allowed prohibited acts'. You said yourself that you believe chess is haram? OK, I am not accusing anyone of anything as well but my question is: Why those two Ayatollahs go opposite to each other?

 

 

Go ask them if you're really interested! Ask the people of knowledge. Don't look on the internet. Don't look at just one side of the argument. That is extremely biased and unfair of you. Surely there must be a reason that all those Mujtahideen have allowed chess, or do you think they did it because they just felt like it? If you've really researched the topic well, you'd be able to give the reason it is allowed by many men yourself. I'll simplify what you're doing and show how ridiculous it is: 

Person A and Person B disagree on something ---> You hear Person A's version of the story and see his proofs ---> You don't bother looking into Person B's side of the story and think Person A was convincing enough ---> You start supporting Person A. 

 

I never claimed anything for myself. Chess is haram. Go and see for yourself. Don't act like a maniac. I'm a straightforward man. If chess isharam then it's haram. Ayatollah Khamenei is a learned man but he can err. We love him but we can question him. I protest for all this nonsense among Shia Muslims. Why're we making him a pope? He himself would never allow any claim of infallibility for himself?

 

 

Don't call me maniac. Do that again and you'll get a warning. If you're incapable of discussing things in a civil manner without acting like an adult, don't start topics at all, let alone ones you have no information about. Sayyid Sistani can err too, have you considered that? If it's anyone making anyone a pope or acting with an air of infallibility here, it's you. 

 

Can't I have direct access to Ayatollah Khamenei? I wanna ask him for myself why he thought chess in halal. I believe he would give me a serious reason because he's a real scholar and if a real scholars errs, his intention is pure.

 

 

This is the most sensible thing you've said in your post. I know people have met Sayyid Khamenei and asked him questions. I don't know how they did it, but they did and it's very much possible. But until then, stop judging him and his knowledge. 

 

(salam)

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Sistani IMHO is more strict in nature Khameini a little bit lax in comparison.

 

It depends on your style.

 

If you're more of a strict "by the book" type of a Muslim probably go with Sistani as he's conservative to the heart.

 

Chess is an example of that, music another, smoking etc. For a moderate it is no big deal, but a "by the book" type of person will make considerations in any situation both big and small.

 

But obviously you don't have to agree with every fatwa both individuals make. You pick a Marja on the basis that one individual's goals/ideals matches your morals closer than another. Marjas just help guide people.

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i can see you are the type of person who is forever destined to change their Marje because they always think they are right and everyone else is wrong. Maybe you should change your Nick to Arrogant Muslim it sort of fits you better.

 

I wont even bother responding to the rest of the garbage you have written because it is built on shaky grounds.

 

A person who says he is

Ithna Asheria

then says all the Imams are dead hence the the need to do Taqleed

refuses to withdraw the original comment but trys to justify it

Calls himself modest muslim

sits in judgement of Ayatulluh Khameni

defends the indefensible by saying 'why are you taking it literally'

You sound like a Malang wannabe who does taqleed because out of habit.

So how many years did you attend Madrassah

 

OK, pal. if you wanna keep with your blindness then keep with it.

 

Ayatollah Sistani says that chess is haram. Ayatollah Khamenei says that chess is halal. Thus, I researched and found out that Ayatollah Sistani's statement is close to truth. I just followed what Ayatollahs told me.

 

Taqid and Tohfatul Awam

 

What's written in Tohfatul Awam regarding taqlid?

 

'Yes, if verdict of a mujtahid is against the verdict of another mujtahid then he shouldn't be in taqlid of the one who is not more knowledgeable.'

(page #38)

 

If it comes into knowledge after being in taqlid of a mujtahid that the second mujtahid is more knowledgeable then conversion is obligatory

(page #39)

 

Obviously, you're mental approach is below average. That's why when you saw that you've been refuted by me completely then you didn't respond to me. 

 

I believe that Imams were martyrs and a martyrs are not dead. I believe that Imam Mahdi (as) is alive. It's enough for every normal person but you're a zombie.

 

My comment was in literal sense.

 

I'm a Modest Muslim. Many people here admire me. But there are some freaks who hate me however they mere surprise me.

 

I didn't sit in anyone's judgement, dude. It was Ayatollah Sistani. He sat. I mere followed. Go and abuse him if sitting in someone's judgement in infidelity for you. I'm a layman.

 

Taqlid is obligatory. You can't deny that because you're not an Ayatollah. You can't sit in their judgement. You're now doing what you accused me of, you weird person! :p

 

I attended no madrisa. There are schools and colleges and universities around here. They teach religion. I also learnt religion myself by reading books, studying Qur'an, talking to others and on internet. I learnt how to read Arabic myself just by studying Qur'an. I studied history of Islam myself as well. Now I refer to Ayatollahs's websites to correct myself where I can because they're the most learned people in world of Islam today.

 

Well, you're the one who needs to learn a lot. Le'me help ya. First lesson: Don't tease anyone on petty issues. Be a nice guy and make easiness for people. 

 

The Prophet said:

 

Make things easy for the people and do not make it difficult for them and make them calm (with glad tidings) and do not repulse (them ).

 

 

http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/78/152

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Because Sayyid Sistani is the more popular Marja`, in terms of the following by Usooli Imami Shi`as around the world. He was nominated by Sayyid Khoei [rh] himself who was perhaps the most knowledgable man in the last century. Also, I am not particularly convinced by the concept of WF. 

The criteria is not something we make. The criteria is set and that is being the most knowledgable. But laymen who only visit the Maraji's website are no one to decide who is the most knowledgable based on a couple of fataawa they've seen or heard about. Also, I have read that Sayyid Khamenei has himself said that he is not the most knowledgable for those outside Iran.

 

I guess in a scenario when two people are equally knowledgable (which is unlikely) I would go with the one who is more popular as a Marja. And it is possible to be able to follow two Maraji in certain matters. The fact that you're unaware of this should be proof enough that you are not sufficiently knowledgable to be able to decide who is the most knowledgable Marja`. What are your 'Islamic credentials'? You haven't become a scholar just by reading Tohfatul Awaam cover to cover. Have you read any ahadith books? Which ones? Do you even know about our most authoritative texts?

 

I should also point out that by acting the way you are (judging by a few fatawa) you are acting in clear disobedience to the fataawa of Sayyid Sistani too. From his website:

 

---

 

 

Wrong. Has anyone of them ever said that the best source of knowledge about their verdicts is their website? And again, the verdicts are not a condition for judging who is the most knowledgable. You just read Sayyid Sistani's ruling above yourself. 

 

 

I don't know. Perhaps no one has asked him the question yet? I can think of hundreds of problems the solutions to which are up on neither websites. What am I supposed to do then? Follow no one because none of them cared enough to think of them and have them put up on their website?

You can ask Sayyid Khamenei by sending him a question on the website. As per you, the answer would be 'He doesn't know.' which I assure won't be the case. Or if you really are passionate about your query (which I assume you're not) you would go and ask him yourself. But no. You've made the website the ultimate source of your knowledge, apparently. What is not on there, doesn't exist! 

 

 

There are so many Maraji' because there are so many learned people around, Alhumdulillah. We can't practically follow more than one Marja` because if there is a difference between them you'd have to decide on who's ruling to act upon by reasoning yourself which really defeats the purpose of Taqlid.

There is no disunity. We are all still Shi`a Muslims. We can have differences but our Madhab and 98% of practices are the same. We shall not be punished if we act with the intention of Qurbatan Ilallah, inshaAllah (this obviously doesn't mean you have the license to do anything with that intention).

 

 

I have failed to see the problem that you are claiming you have identified. The opening post was an announcement that you've switched Marjas based on what you got off the internet and Tohafatul Awam. 

 

 

Go ask them if you're really interested! Ask the people of knowledge. Don't look on the internet. Don't look at just one side of the argument. That is extremely biased and unfair of you. Surely there must be a reason that all those Mujtahideen have allowed chess, or do you think they did it because they just felt like it? If you've really researched the topic well, you'd be able to give the reason it is allowed by many men yourself. I'll simplify what you're doing and show how ridiculous it is: 

Person A and Person B disagree on something ---> You hear Person A's version of the story and see his proofs ---> You don't bother looking into Person B's side of the story and think Person A was convincing enough ---> You start supporting Person A. 

 

 

Don't call me maniac. Do that again and you'll get a warning. If you're incapable of discussing things in a civil manner without acting like an adult, don't start topics at all, let alone ones you have no information about. Sayyid Sistani can err too, have you considered that? If it's anyone making anyone a pope or acting with an air of infallibility here, it's you. 

 

 

This is the most sensible thing you've said in your post. I know people have met Sayyid Khamenei and asked him questions. I don't know how they did it, but they did and it's very much possible. But until then, stop judging him and his knowledge. 

 

(salam)

 

Wasn't Imam Khomeini the most learned person in the past century? 

 

Ayatollah Khamenei could say that he wasn't the most learned because he's a real scholar. He understands Iran and Islam. He has the soul of a real follower of the People of the Household (as).

 

I never said that I was a very learned person. I can be wrong because I'm a layman. 

 

 

You've showed the wrong verdict, bro. That verdict's to tell us how we should consider someone as a mujtahid. Don't lie about me. I never doubted that Ayatollah Khamenei isn't an Ayatollah. I'm an idiot and I can't decide who an Ayatollah is and who is not. I am a layman and I can decide whom should I follow and that's what I did. So you showed me the wrong verdict.

 

 

If his website is not the best source then it can be their books. Am I right now?

 

I asked on his website myself that whether chess is halal or haram. Yes, your suggestion's correct. Le'me go and ask modern problems myself.

 

There are so many learned persons around here but they all must let one lead'em all. I ask all Ayatollahs in the world: 'Why don't you let one of you lead you all?'

 

Well, I just wanted to tell you all that I've switched marja and I also thought of telling you why. That made some of you hate me and they acted like I've insulted the Prophet (pbuh). Bizarre!

 

I am a very careful person and I never look at one side of argument. I listened to both Ayatollahs. Both Sistani and Khamenei. Hey, do you read my posts and comments in sleep?

 

You acted like a maniac when you accused me of being one-sided. When did I say that I hadn't listen to what Ayatollah Khamenei said. Civil manner! So, brother, when did I act uncivil? If one tells a lie then he doesn't become a liar. He becomes a liar when he makes it his habit to lie. Don't send me a warning. Go and act according to Q. 7:199. Again you ignorantly ignored my comments. I killed myself here yelling, 'don't make your Ayatollah your pope as he's not infallible' but you gave me my statement back. If you wanna abuse me then abuse but please don't accuse me of what I didn't because abuses just make me sick but accusations make myself burn in anger.

 

Let's be super-civil. Anger's haram in Islam. You have to tolerate just like I tolerated some guys here who consistently tried to frame me as Anti-Christ. Well, I'm famous here for my politeness.

 

My entire post's civil, brother. But it's you who failed to understand me. Well, you're a mod but that doesn't make you act like our uncle. You're making it look like that Ayatollahs are pope. OK, we must honor'em all but we can criticize them. If God didn't forbid His criticism then why Ayatollahs...?

 

Mark my word. I'm not a genius here. Even you can judge an Ayatollah whether he's the most learned or not but you don't because you don't wanna. If you wanna then go and check for yourself.

 

Well, you follow Ayatollah Sistani because he's popular? That's strange. Being popular doesn't mean that man's good. Majority is never authority. Well, that's your choice.

 

(wasalam)

Edited by Modest Muslim

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Wine was haram because it effects your mental health badly. But now wine's made specially not to effect mental health. Is wine halal now?

 

Pork was haram because swine eats poo and lives in it. But now swines are bred specially to turn into delicious lunch. Is pork halal now?

 

Similarly, chess can't be halal now just because a few people manage to protect themselves from its evil. Moreover, chess still effects most of its players's health.

Edited by Modest Muslim

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It's obvious at this point that you're convinced that you are right and will not even try to listen to anyone. That's not how you discuss a problem (not to mention there wasn't a problem to begin with). The thread is not going anywhere except around in circles. Do not start a new similar thread. 

 

Thread locked

 

 

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