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Muslim2010

Sunni Hadith For Names Of 12 Caliphs

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(salam)

 

Brother you have misunderstood the Hadith of 12 RULERS, nowhere they are referred to as 'rightly guided 12 caliphs'. No such thing. It is just a prophecy of the Prophet (saw) that twelve RULERS (good or bad) will come and all of them are QURAISH and Islam will be dominant during their RULE. 

 

Some scholars like Mula Ali Qari and ibn Taymiyyah gave this list:

 

Abu Bakr
Umar
Uthman
Ali
Mu'awiya 
Yazid bin Mu'awiya
Abdul Malik bin Marwan
Walid bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan
Sulayman bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan
Umar bin Abdul Aziz
Yazid bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan
Hasham bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan

 

In my opinion the list is logical because all of these were from QURAISH, they were RULERS and Islam was dominant (strong and spreading rapidly through conquests etc) during their rule. 

 

One thing is for sure, it doesn't refer to Shia twelve Imams for tens of reasons. 

 

Yazid bin Mu'awiya  :huh: 

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Yes. Even though he was a corrupt person but Islam was dominant and strong and spreading rapidly. 

so your saying We can have a corrupt Person to guide the affairs of the Islamic Ummah?

Sorry Brother, but this is Illogical.

 

وَ لَكِنّ اللّهَ يُسلِّط رُسلَهُ عَلى مَن يَشاءُ

 

…but Allah gives authority to His apostles over whomsoever He wishes (59:6)

 

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so your saying We can have a corrupt Person to guide the affairs of the Islamic Ummah?

Sorry Brother, but this is Illogical.

 

وَ لَكِنّ اللّهَ يُسلِّط رُسلَهُ عَلى مَن يَشاءُ

 

…but Allah gives authority to His apostles over whomsoever He wishes (59:6)

 

 

 

I never said that brother. 

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(salam)

 

Brother you have misunderstood the Hadith of 12 RULERS, nowhere they are referred to as 'rightly guided 12 caliphs'. No such thing. It is just a prophecy of the Prophet (saw) that twelve RULERS (good or bad) will come and all of them are QURAISH and Islam will be dominant during their RULE. 

 

Some scholars like Mula Ali Qari and ibn Taymiyyah gave this list:

 

Abu Bakr
Umar
Uthman
Ali
Mu'awiya 
Yazid bin Mu'awiya
Abdul Malik bin Marwan
Walid bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan
Sulayman bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan
Umar bin Abdul Aziz
Yazid bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan
Hasham bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan

 

In my opinion the list is logical because all of these were from QURAISH, they were RULERS and Islam was dominant (strong and spreading rapidly through conquests etc) during their rule. 

 

One thing is for sure, it doesn't refer to Shia twelve Imams for tens of reasons. 

 

The Sunni Ulema have different views on the explanation of the Hadith of 12 Caliphs / successors:

 

Ibn al-'Arabi says in his "Sharh Sunan al-Tirmidhi"

 

We have counted the Amirs after the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) as twelve. 

 

We found them as follows: Abu Bakr, 'Umar, 'Uthman, Ali, Hasan, Mu'awiyah, Yazid, Mu'awiyah ibn Yazid, Marwan, 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan, Yazid bin 'Abd al-Malik, Marwan bin Muhammad bin Marwan, As-Saffah... After this there were twenty-seven caliphs from the Bani Abbas. 

 

Now if we consider twelve of them we can reach only till Sulayman. If we take the literal meaning we have only five of them and to these we add the four Righteous Caliphs, and 'Umar bin 'Abd al-'Aziz... 

 

I cannot understand the meaning of this Hadith. [16]

 

Qadi 'Iyad, says in reply to the claim that there shall be only twelve Caliphs; 

 

"The number of Caliphs are more than that. To limit their number to twelve is incorrect. The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) did not say that there will be only twelve and there is no scope for more. Hence it is possible that there can be more. [17]

 

Al-Suyuti says: 

There are only twelve Caliphs until Qiyamat. And they will continue to act on truth, even if they are not continuous. [18]

 

It is mentioned in Fath al-Bari that: 

Four of them (the Righteous Caliphs) have passed. The rest also must pass before Qiyamat. [19]

 

Ibn al-Jawzi says: 

"It can be concluded that the phrase "then there will be discord" implies the disturbing events like the coming of Dajjal and whatever will come after it." [20]

 

Al-Suyuti has explained as follows: 

We see that from the twelve, four are the Righteous Caliphs, then Hasan, then Mu'awiyah, then Ibn Zubayr, and finally 'Umar bin 'Abd al-'Aziz. They are eight. Four of them remain. Maybe Mahdi, the Abbasid could be included as he is an Abbasid like 'Umar bin 'Abd al-'Aziz was an Umayyad. And Tahir 'Abbasi will also be included because he was a just ruler. Thus two more are yet to come. One of them is Mahdi, because he is from the Ahlul Bayt (a.s.). [21]

 

It is also said: 

It could also mean that the twelve Imams will remain during the period of Islam's supremacy. The time when Islam will be a dominant religion. These Caliphs will, during their tenure, glorify the religion. All the Muslims will collect round them in unison.[22]

 

Al-Bayhaqi says: 

"This number (twelve) is found till the period of Walid ibn 'Abd al-Malik. After this, there was chaos and disturbance. Then came the Abbasid dynasty. This report has increased the number of Imams. If we neglect some of their characteristics which came after the disturbance, then their number will be much higher."[23]

 

Ibn Kathir says: 

Whosoever follows Bayhaqi and agrees with his assertion that Jama'ah means those Caliphs who came intermittently till the time of Walid ibn Yazid ibn 'Abd al-Malik the transgressor comes under the purview of the tradition quoted by us criticising and denouncing such people. It is a controversial sect. The Caliphs are till Walid bin Yazid. Their total is more than twelve. And their argument is that the Caliphate consisted of Abu Bakr, 'Umar, 'Uthman and Ali. (The Righteous Caliphate). After this the Caliphate of Hasan was true because he had been nominated by Ali and the people of Iraq had also pledged their allegiance to him. It continued till the time of his treaty with Mu'awiyah. Then came Yazid the son of Mu'awiyah. Then his son Mu'awiyah ibn Yazid, then Marwan bin al-Hakam, then 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan, then his son, Walid ibn 'Abd al-Malik, then Sulayman ibn 'Abd al-Malik, then 'Umar ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz, then Yazid ibn 'Abd al-Malik, then Hisham ibn 'Abd al-Malik. This takes the total to fifteen. Then after this, Walid ibn Yazid ibn 'Abd al-Malik became the Caliph. And if we accept the Caliphate of ibn Zubayr before 'Abd al-Malik the total shall be sixteen. Whereas their total should be twelve before 'Umar ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz. In this method Yazid ibn Mu'awiyah will be included and not 'Umar ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz. However, it is established that the majority of the 'ulama accept 'Umar ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz as a truthful and a just Caliph. There was complete peace and justice during his reign. Even the Rafidiaccept this fact. 

 

Suppose we say that we will accept the Caliph as the one who has the acceptance of all the Ummat, then we cannot accept Ali and his son. Because the whole Ummat had not supported them. 

 

The Syrians had accepted their superiority but not their Caliphate. In this way they cannot be accepted as Caliphs. 

 

 He (Bayhaqi) has also written that some people included Mu'awiyah, his son and his grandson among the Caliphs. The time of Marwan and ibn Zubayr is also not included. For none of them had the unanimous support. Therefore we say about this sect that they believe in the first three Caliphs, then Mu'awiyah, then Yazid, then 'Abd al-Malik, then Sulayman ibn 'Abd al-Malik, then 'Umar ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz, then Yazid ibn 'Abd al-Malik, then Hisham ibn 'Abd al-Malik. This comes to ten. Then they consider Walid ibn Yazid ibn 'Abd al-Malik the transgressor as the Caliph. In this way they exclude Ali and his son. Now this is absolutely against the belief of the majority of Muslims , whether Shi'as or Sunnis. [25]

 

Ibn al-Jawzi has offered two explanations in his book, "Kashf al-Mushkil": 

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) has informed about whatever is going to occur after him with his Companions. And that the actions of the Companions will be similar to those of the Prophet's. At that time he had also indicated the number of Caliphs of Bani Umayya. As the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) has said, "La Yazaluddin" (the religion will not decline), it indicates the chain of Wilayat till the Twelfth Caliph. The Second and the more serious meaning is that after the passing of the twelve Caliphs the conditions will deteriorate. The first Caliph of Bani Umayya was Yazid ibn Mu'awiyah and the last, Marwan Al-Himar. Their total is thirteen. 'Uthman, Mu'awiyah and ibn Zubayr are not included as they were among the Companions of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.). 

 

If we exclude Marwan bin al-Hakam because of the controversy about his being a Companion or that he was in power even though Abdullah ibn Zubayr had the support of the people. Then we can get the figure of Twelve. 

 

When the Caliphate came out of the Bani Umayya, a great disturbance arose. Until the Bani Abbas established themselves. Hence, the original conditions had changed completely. [26]

 

Ibn Hajar in Fath al-Bari has refuted this. 

The second explanation of Ibn al-Jawzi is as follows: 

Abu al-Husayn bin Mauaadi in his book, "Al-Mahdi" says, "The more probable meaning refers to the Mahdi who will come towards the end of the world. I have seen in the book of Daniel, "When Mahdi will die five men from his elder grandson, then five men from his younger grandson will succeed him. Then the last of them will make a will in favour of one of the descendants of the elder grandson. After this his son will become the King. This proves the twelve Imams mentioned in the hadith of the Prophet (s.a.w.s.). All of them will be known as Imam Mahdi." 

 

He says, "...This affair will continue with the twelve persons. Six of them will be from the progeny of Hasan and five from the progeny of Husayn. The last will be someone else. After his death, confusion will prevail upon the earth." 

 

[16]

Ibn al-'Arabi, Sharh Sunan Tirmidhi 9:68-69.

[17]

Al-Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim, 12:201-202.  

Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani, Fath al-Bari 16:339.

[18]

Al-Suyuti, Tarikh al-Khulafa, Vol 12.

[19]

Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani, Fath al-Bari 16:341.

[20]

Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani, Fath al-Bari 16:341.

[21]

Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqa Vol 19.  

Al-Suyuti, Tarikh al-Khulafa, Vol 12.  

There is unanimity in the School of Caliphate that the awaited Imam is Mahdi, as is the belief of the followers of the School of Ahlul Bayt (a.s.).

[22]

Al-Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim ,12:202-203.

[23]

Ibn Kathir, Ta'rikh, 6:249.  

Al-Suyuti, Tarikh al-Khulafa Vol 11.  

Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqa Vol 19.  

Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani, Fath al-Bari 16:341.

[24]

Al-Suyuti, Tarikh al-Khulafa Vol 11.

[25]

Ibn Kathir, Ta'rikh, 6:249-250.

]26]

Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani, Fath al-Bari 16:340 quoted from Sibt Ibn al-Jawzi.

 

 

THERE IS NO AGREEMENT IN THE EXPLANATION OF THE ABOVE TRADITIONS.

 
This certainly necessitates a CLEAR HADITH mentioning the NAMES of those 12 caliphs on which the Sunni ulema have obviously different views. In the absence of this Hadith these names have no authenticity and this is considered a weakness in Sihah Sitta itself.
 
 
The number of Caliphs / leaders /Imams is 12 that is mentioned in both sunna and shia sources. The names of them are mentioned in these sources. First Imam is Ali as and 12th Imam is Al-Mahdi as. They are from the progeny of the prophet saww. This concept is certainly more stronger point of view authenticated by the saying of the prophet.
Edited by skamran110

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The Sunni Ulema have different views on the explanation of the Hadith of 12 Caliphs / successors:

.

.

.

.

.

 

THERE IS NO AGREEMENT IN THE EXPLANATION OF THE ABOVE TRADITIONS.

 
This certainly necessitates a CLEAR HADITH mentioning the NAMES of those 12 caliphs on which the Sunni ulema have obviously different views. In the absence of this Hadith these names have no authenticity and this is considered a weakness in Sihah Sitta itself.
 
 
The number of Caliphs / leaders /Imams is 12 that is mentioned in both sunna and shia sources. The names of them are mentioned in these sources. First Imam is Ali as and 12th Imam is Al-Mahdi as. They are from the progeny of the prophet saww. This concept is certainly more stronger point of view authenticated by the saying of the prophet.

 

 

(salam)

Yes brother there are different interpretations of that Hadith. It is a Prophecy of the Prophet (saw), nothing else. Just like other hundreds of Prophecies. The list I provided seems more logical, all of them were from QURAISH, all of them were RULERS and Islam was dominant during their RULE. What are your objections to my comment no.69 ? 

 

I say again, It doesn't refer to 12 Imams because they were not RULERS (except 2). The issue of 12th Imam further disprove Shia claims on this Hadith because the Hadith says "Islam will be dominant and strong during their RULE" but today even though 12th Imam or 'Imam of the Time' is present but Islam is not dominant and strong rather Muslim nations are weak and divided. This is further evidence that it doesn't refer to Shia 12 Imams at all. You get my point?

Edited by Abul Hussain Hassani

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The title question is :

 

Can Sunni quote an authentic hadith naming  their 12 Caliphs, from Sihah Sitta?

 

And still there is no hadith quoted mentioning the NAMES of those 12 caliphs of Sunna. In the absence of this Hadith these names have no authenticity and this is considered a weakness in Sihah Sitta itself.

 

(salam)

Yes brother there are different interpretations of that Hadith. It is a Prophecy of the Prophet (saw), nothing else. Just like other hundreds of Prophecies. The list I provided seems more logical, all of them were from QURAISH, all of them were RULERS and Islam was dominant during their RULE. What are your objections to my comment no.69 ? 

 

I say again, It doesn't refer to 12 Imams because they were not RULERS (except 2). The issue of 12th Imam further disprove Shia claims on this Hadith because the Hadith says "Islam will be dominant and strong during their RULE" but today even though 12th Imam or 'Imam of the Time' is present but Islam is not dominant and strong rather Muslim nations are weak and divided. This is further evidence that it doesn't refer to Shia 12 Imams at all. You get my point?

 

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The affairs of people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by the Twelve men."

 

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #6

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4478

 

=========

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been Twelve Caliphs."

 

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #7

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4480

=========

 

Again:

 

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The Islamic religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having Twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraish."

 

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #10

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4483

 

The prophet mention that day of judgement (hour) will be established until you have 12 caliphs, but the list quoted by you post no 69 stops at Hasham bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan who died in 743..

 

Also the list does not include the names of Imam Hassan and Imam Al-Mahdi who are considered caliphs as per Sihah Sitta. Many discrepancies can be quoted like this.

 

But in the absence of an authentic Hadith to substantiate these names the claim of sunna for following them is not justified.

Edited by skamran110

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The title question is :

 

Can Sunni quote an authentic hadith naming  their 12 Caliphs, from Sihah Sitta?

 

And still there is no hadith quoted mentioning the NAMES of those 12 caliphs of Sunna. In the absence of this Hadith these names have no authenticity and this is considered a weakness in Sihah Sitta itself.

 

 

 

(salam)

 

Brother It seems you didn't understand my comments, you are just posting the same thing repeatedly.

 

The Prophet (saw) didn't name them. He (saw) just said that 12 RULERS (bad or good) will come from QURAISH. He (saw) didn't say anything in their praise nor said anything about following them. It is just a Prophecy just like the other Prophecy where the Prophet (saw) said 30 False Prophets will appear and we know that Musaylima, Tulaiha, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, etc are some of these 30 false Prophets. 

 

"weakness in Shiha Sitta"? What do you mean?

 

 

The prophet mention that day of judgement (hour) will be established until you have 12 caliphs, but the list quoted by you post no 69 stops at Hasham bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan who died in 743..

 

Also the list does not include the names of Imam Hassan and Imam Al-Mahdi who are considered caliphs as per Sihah Sitta. Many discrepancies can be quoted like this.

 

So? These twelve RULERS will come before the end of the world. 

 

 

 

But in the absence of an authentic Hadith to substantiate these names the claim of sunna for following them is not justified.

 

Brother, who talked about following them? 

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(salam)

 

Brother It seems you didn't understand my comments, you are just posting the same thing repeatedly.

 

The Prophet (saw) didn't name them. He (saw) just said that 12 RULERS (bad or good) will come from QURAISH. He (saw) didn't say anything in their praise nor said anything about following them. It is just a Prophecy just like the other Prophecy where the Prophet (saw) said 30 False Prophets will appear and we know that Musaylima, Tulaiha, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, etc are some of these 30 false Prophets. 

 

"weakness in Shiha Sitta"? What do you mean?

 

 

So? These twelve RULERS will come before the end of the world. 

 

 

Brother, who talked about following them? 

Excuse me, but if you go to the previous page, you will find that the prophet (pbuh) has mentioned their names.

The Questions lies, on Who really is the Khalifa, and the First of them Is Imam Ali (as) and the last of them is Imam Muhammad al Mahdi (as), 

Which we both agree on. 

(salam)

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Who the Twelve Khulafah were is of neither a great importance nor a huge issue. There are varying opinion, for example Ibn Taymiyyah (Rahimah Allah) held the view that it was from Abu Bakr as-Siddiq to 'Umar ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz (Radi Allahu 'Anhum) with the exclusion of al-Hasan, Mu'awiyah Ibn Yazid, 'Abd Allah ibn az-Zubayr and Marwan ibn al-Hakam, this was because their reigns were short and full of Fitnah (By the way before you accuse ibn Taymiyyah of being a Nasibi for excluding al-Hasan he included him as a Rashidi Khalifah), he added instead 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan and his three children. al-Bayhaqi (Rahimah Allah) on the other hand believed that it was none of the Sahabah but only the Tabi'in Khulafah who were the 12 Khulafah.

It is important that you understand that the Prophet (Sall Allahu 'Alayhi wa Salim) said that the Khilafat would remain in this Ummah for 30 years and if you look in history you find that 30 years is almost the exact length of time of the combined reigns of Abu Bakr, 'Umar, 'Uthman, 'Ali and al-Hasan (Radi Allahu 'Anhum). So this is known as the Khilafah ar-Rashidah or the Khilafah an-Nubuwiyyah. Then the Prophet (Sall Allahu 'Alayhi wa Salim) said that we would be ruled by kings hence why Mu'awiyah (Radi Allahu 'Anhu) said that "I am the first of the Kings". So the Khulafah after the Rashidun Khulafah are not held in the same way as the first 5 are.

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Banu ummayah can't be included in this prophecy. They were the worst of caliphs. Whoever included Muawiya, Yazid and Marwan in the 12 caliphs then they are clearly showing their nasbism. These people have been cursed and no way are they the rightful successors of the Holy Prophet (s) due to their changing of the sunnah and extreme hatred of the Ahlulbayt (as).  

 

 

http://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/33/69

 

Sahih al-Tirmidhi Hadith 2226:

 

Sa'eed bin Jumhan narrated:
"Safinah narrated to me, he said: 'The Messenger of Allah(s.a.w) said: "Al-Khilafah will be in my Ummah for thirty years, then there will be monarchy after that."' Then Safinah said to me: 'Count the Khilafah of Abu Bakr,' then he said: 'Count the Khilafah of 'Umar and the Khilafah of 'Uthman.' Then he said to me: 'Count the Khilafah of 'Ali."' He said: "So we found that they add up to thirty years." Sa'eed said: "I said to him: 'Banu Umaiyyah claim that the Khilafah is among them.' He said: 'Banu Az-Zarqa' lie, rather they are a monarchy, among the worst of monarchies."'
Edited by goldenhawk

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