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Muslim2010

Sunni Hadith For Names Of 12 Caliphs

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Like I didn't see that one coming.. Lol

So you believe Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì told us the fundamental belief in a hidden code?? Ever read surah 3:7

Yes I have actually. I believe we discussed it in the other thread.

Not in a hidden code, just a sign to reinforce the fact that it is there within the Quran.

O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end (4:59).

Edited by BuggyLemon

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Yes I have actually. I believe we discussed it in the other thread.

Not in a hidden code, just a sign to reinforce the fact that it is there within the Quran.

O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end (4:59).

 

 

No use, He says that Ulu al amr can make mistakes, and also the prophet (as) can make minor mistakes, which makes no sense.

and Ulu al amr can be anyone who is high in religion....(According to him).

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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Tell me, what is the exact number of times the word "Imam" is used in the Quran?

Arabic word “imam” appears 7 times in the Quran, and its plural form (a’immah) appears another 5 times. 

 

 

 

There are 12 Imams (as).

 

the word “imam”, it means “a thing which is followed.” This can be a person, place, or thing. For exp, in the Quran,  “imam” is used to refer to a leader (who is followed), a road (which is followed), and a book (which is followed). In the Quran, the word “imam” is used five times to refer to a thing (i.e. inanimate non-human object), whereas it is used to refer to a person the other 7 times. Of these seven times, the word “imam” is never used to refer to the Infallible Imams of the Shia.

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Arabic word “imam” appears 7 times in the Quran, and its plural form (a’immah) appears another 5 times.

the word “imam”, it means “a thing which is followed.” This can be a person, place, or thing. For exp, in the Quran, “imam” is used to refer to a leader (who is followed), a road (which is followed), and a book (which is followed). In the Quran, the word “imam” is used five times to refer to a thing (i.e. inanimate non-human object), whereas it is used to refer to a person the other 7 times. Of these seven times, the word “imam” is never used to refer to the Infallible Imams of the Shia.

It is the number of times that it is mentioned (not only what it means in the context of mention) that alludes to this fact as well as the verses that support the Aimmah's (AS) legitimacy as we have presented but we have a difference of opinion on what these verses mean.

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it doesnt contradict as both hadith r different

 

there isnt any weakness in hadith nd it is unfair to demand frm us to say for certainty who the 12 Caliphs are, as i earlier said tht we cannot possibly know for certain who the 12 are, as this would be speaking about the Unseen without knowledge from Allah. because there is another Hadith,tht Prophet (SAWW) has stated tht a mujaddid would appear after every century; if we ask the scholars to name who were all the mujaddideen of the Ummah throughout the centuries, we find that they will not be able to name them.. In fact, there is no way that anybody can know for certain even a single of these mujaddideen, namely because to say something like that with absolute certainty would be speaking about the Unseen without knowledge from Allah, which is considered a sin.

 

Allah warns in the Quran:

 

“Say: The things that my Lord has indeed forbidden are…saying things about Allah of which you have no knowledge.”

(Quran, 7:33)

 

so We have only been given the knowledge that there will be 12 Caliphs but we cannot say for certainty who they are, as Allah says:

 

“You have been given but little knowledge.” (Quran, 17:85)

 

so we can only therefore guess at who the 12 Caliphs are, though Various scholars have furthered their own guesses as to who the twelve Caliphs are, but these guesses cannot be taken with absolute certainty. the best guess is that the twelve Caliphs refers to al-Khulafaa al-Rashidoon (the Rightly Guided Caliphs). There is Ijma (consensus) on the fact that the first four Caliphs were Rightly Guided Caliphs and the term is most often used for them. However, in addition to these four, we say that Ali’s son, Hasan (RA), was one of the Rightly Guided Caliphs. The Prophet (SAWW) said:

 

“The Caliphate of Prophecy will last thirty years; then Allah will give the rule of His Kingdom to whomever He wills.”

(Sunan Abu Dawood)

 

AFAIK There is not any authentic shia hadith where the 12 Imams are mentioned by their name, if there is, plz bring it here

 

Allah has two types of knowledge:

1- The knowledge that is withheld (i.e., Ghayb). As I mentioned Nobody has   control over this type of knowledge except Allah. Allah may inform "a   news from Ghayb" to some of His servants, but this is different than   "possessing Ghayb"

 

let us look at the following verse:

 

     "He possesses the Ghayb and He does not discloses His Ghayb to anyone   except to such a Messenger as He is well-pleased with." (Quran 72:26- 27).

 

From the above verse, it is evident that although Allah alone possesses the withheld knowledge (Ghayb), but He may disclose a news from it to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HF). On the other hand, Prophet Muhammad transferred whatever he was reached from the news of "Ghayb" to those who qualified, as the following verse testifies:

 

     "And he (Muhammad) is not niggardly the Knowledge of the Unseen."     (Quran 81:24).

 

Therefore, if the news of Ghayb reached to the Prophet Muhammad , it is only because it was given to him by Allah. It is for this reason that according to Quran the messengers are all instructed to tell people that they do not possess the Knowledge of Ghayb of their own, for it is reached to them by Allah only as He wishes.

 

2- The knowledge that is granted. "This is the knowledge that Allah fore-ordained (Qadar, Taqdeer), He decrees it, and carries it out (with no  modification). And this is the knowledge that has been passed down to  the Prophet Muhammad.

 

If the Prophet possessed any knowledge about the future, it is this second type of knowledge (the knowledge of what has been foreordained), and NOT the first type of knowledge (the Knowledge of the Unseen).

 

This type of knowledge is known as "the knowledge of the Book". Quran testifies that some prophets and non-prophets had this type of knowledge by which they could perform many extraordinary things with the permission of Allah. We read in Quran for Prophet Jesus that:

 

"I will also INFORM you of what things you eat and what you treasure up in your houses." (Quran 3:49; see also 5:110). References can also be made in this respect to the power of the interpretation of the tales given to Prophet Joseph (AS) (see Quran 12:6,15,21,37), to the language of the birds given to Prophet David (AS) and Solomon (Sulayman) (AS) (see Quran 21:79).

 

Having "the Knowledge of the Book", one can do many extraordinary things with the permission of Allah. For example Quran mentions that at the time of Prophet Solomon (Sulayman), a person in the name of Asaf, who was the Minister of Solomon and had only a very small part of "the Knowledge of the Book", was able to bring the throne of Queen Bilqis from another place of the world within the twinkling of an eye:

 

     "The One with whom was just a part of the Knowledge of the Book said:

                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

     'I shall bring it to you within the twinkling of an eye!' Then when   (Solomon) saw (the throne) set in his presence, he said: 'This is by  the grace of my Lord! to test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful!'" (Quran 27:40).

 

The Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) informed his followers of the very existence of a man who was the treasurer of Knowledge of the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF), and he had declared to them that if they want to reach the Knowledge of the Holy Prophet, they should take that Knowledge from the treasurer:

 

     The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "I am the City of Knowledge,  and Ali is its Gate. So whoever intends to enter the City and the   Wisdom, he should enter from its Gate."

 

Sunni references:

(1) Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 201,637

(2) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, pp 126-127,226, Chapter of the Virtues  of Ali, narrated on the authority of two reliable reporters: one, Ibn  Abbas, whose report has been transmitted through two different but

    chain of authorities, and the other, Jabir Ibn Abdullah al-Ansari. He   said this tradition is Authentic (Sahih).

(3) Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p635, Tradition #1081

(4) Jami' al-Saghir, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v1, pp 107,374; Also in

    Jami' al-Jawami'; Also in Tarikh al-Khulafaa, p171. He said this   tradition is accepted (Hasan).

(5) al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani (d. 360); Also in al-Awsat

(6) Ma'rifah al-Sahaba, by al-Hafidh Abu Nu'aym al-Isbahani

(7) Ihyaa al-Ululm, by al-Ghazzali

(8) History of Ibn Kathir, v7, p358

(9) History of Ibn Asakir

(10) Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v2, p337; v4, p348; v7, p173;

     v11, pp 48-50; v13, p204

(11) al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p38; v2, p461

(12) Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn al-Athir, v4, p22

(13) Tahdhib al-Athar, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari

(14) Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p114

(15) Bahr al-Asateed, by al-Hafidh Abu Muhammad Hassan Samarghandi (d. 491)

(16) Siraj al-Muneer, by al-Hafidh Ali Ibn Ahmad Azizi Shafi'i (d.1070),   v2, p63

(17) Manaqib, by Ali Ibn Muhammad Ibn Tayyib al-Jalaabi Ibn Maghaazi (d.   483)

(18) Firdaws al-Akhbar, by Abu Shuja'a Shirwayh Hamadani al-Daylami (d.   509)

(19) Maqtal al-Husain, by Khateeb Kharazmi (d. 568), v1, p43

(20) Manaqib, by Khateeb Kharazmi (d. 568), p49

(21) Alif Ba'a, by Abul Hajjaaj Yusuf Ibn Muhammad Andulesi (d.605), v1,    p222

(22) Matalib al-Su'ul, by Abu Salim Muhammad Ibn Talhih Shafi'i (d. 652),    p22

(23) Jawahi al-Aghdi'in, by Noor al-Din al-Shafi'i (d. 911)

(24) Yanabi' al-Mawaddah, by al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, in Chapter 14

(25) Tadhkirat al-Khawas al-Ummah, by Sibt Ibn al-Jawzi (d. 654), p29

(26) Kunz al-Baraheen, by Shaikh Khathri

(27) Kifayat al-Talib, by Yusuf al-Ganji al-Shafi'i (d. 658), Chapter 58

(28) Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, part 15, p13, Traditions #348-  379

(29) al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, section 2,   p189

(30) Hafidh Salah al-Din al-Ulai, after copying the weakening arguments by   al-Dhahabi, has remarked "There are in this only mean attempts to   oppose for the sake of opposition, and not a single valid argument."

(31) Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn Siddeeq al-Hasani al-Maghribi, from Cairo, has  compiled a magnificent book named "Fat'h al-Mulk al-Ali bi Sihah   Hadith-e-Bab-e-Madinat al-Ilm" to prove the genuinness of the very

     above tradition. This book was printed in the year 1354 AH in Matba'   al-Islamiyyah, Egypt.

(32) Also reported by Ibn Adi on the authority of Ibn Umar, and by al-   Bazzar on the authority of Jabir Ibn Abdillah al-Ansari

... and more ...

 

The perception you have for caliphs is based on the following:

 

- Guesses

- Ijma 

 

But in the absence of hadith naming 12 caliphs it  is not certain about the authenticity of those names and that guess or Ijma is considered just false assumption / conjecture.

 

There are pilothera of hadith given in other threads that you can look, but the topic of this thread is Sunni hadith naming 12 caliphs.

 

Regards.

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No use, He says that Ulu al amr can make mistakes, and also the prophet (as) can make minor mistakes, which makes no sense.

and Ulu al amr can be anyone who is high in religion....(According to him).

Assalamu alaykum

YOU SAID

No use, He says that Ulu al amr can make mistakes

MY ANSWER

Come and join us on the thread "ulil amr" refute me there if you can.

YOU SAID

also the prophet can make minor mistakes

MY ANSWER

Did I not prove it to you from quran??? Yet you still haven't opened that thread you promised, but instead keep saying prophets a.s can't make mistakes without any proof.

YOU SAID

and Ulu al amr can be anyone who is high in religion....(According to him).

MY ANSWER

Like I said come join us on the thread "ulil amr" and refute me if you can.

Yes I have actually. I believe we discussed it in the other thread.

Not in a hidden code, just a sign to reinforce the fact that it is there within the Quran.

O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end (4:59).

BUGGY LEMON

Assalamu alaykum

Come join us on "ulil amr and that number means nothing because there are other islamic sects who had 12 leaders and they also use this as prove.

therefore You do not believe in the prophet Abraham (as)? or Yusuf (as)?

Since they where given the position of Imamah and Wilaya after they were prophets.

Again you seem to state things with no proof at all.

The duties bestowed on Prophets are set out in the Qur’an. Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì states in Surah Baqarah whilst telling the story of Adam (as)

002.038 [YUSUFALI]:

We said: “…,there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Guidance comes via two sources, the Book and that individual that recites / presents it, in other words the sources are the Qur’an and the Prophet (s). The normal precedent of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is to send his Hadi (Guide) first and his Book second, as is clear from Surah Sajdah verse 23-24:

And certainly We gave the Book to Musa, so be not in doubt concerning the receiving of it, and We made it a guide for the children of Israel.

And We made of them Imams to guide by Our command when they were patient, and they were certain of Our communications.

Guidance for the Israelites came via three chains:

  • Prophet Musa (as)
  • The Book of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì
  • Imams to guide the Ummah
If the Book of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is sufficient as guidance, then why did Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì also appoint Imams as a source of guidance. Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì had appointed a group of individual from amongst the Ummah of Musa (as) as Imams for the nation. This is made perfectly clear in Surah Araf verse 159:

Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth.

Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì states in his Glorious Book the similarities between Muhammad (s) and Musa (as):

073.015 [YUSUFALI]:

We have sent to you, (O men!) a messenger, to be a witness concerning you, even as We sent a messenger to Pharaoh.

Along the same lines we read in Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 9.422

Narrated Abu Sa’id al-Khudri:

The Prophet said, “You will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so much so that even if they entered a hole of a mastigure (lizard), you would follow them.” We said, “O Allah’s Apostle! (Do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?” He said, “Whom else?”

As the above tradition in Sahih al-Bukhari confirms, the Prophet stated that the history of the Children of Israel will be repeated for Muslims. In fact, Qur’an has mentioned the stories of the Children of Israel to give us a way to understand the true history of Islam itself. There are many striking similarities in this regard written in Quran including the similarities of the leaders and the similarities of the people.

This being the case now compare the special Ummah of Araf verse 159 to the special Ummah of Muhammad (s) set out in Surah Araf verse 181.

Of those We have created are people who direct (others) with truth. And dispense justice therewith.

When Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì makes a general statement in his Glorious Book, He (set) is making a specific reference to the Ummah of Muhammad (s). Now contemplate the similarities between Musa and Muhammad. Both Prophets were accompanied with a Book and Hadi Imams from their respective Ummahs.We will (inshallah) expand on this further when we address Afiki’s objections to the Shi’a usage of this verse.

The above two traditions of ‘Position’ and ‘Brotherhood’ are accepted by both the sects though a few Nasibis have tried to belie it. Therefore, there is no proof whatsoever regarding the holy Prophet (s.a.w) having referred to anyone else apart from Imam Ali (a.s) as his brother or as someone whose position to him was like that of Harun (a.s) to Musa (a.s)! The enemies have tried very hard to put a cover over this tradition but fortunately light could not be blocked from shining.

وَالَّذِي أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ هُوَ الْحَقُّ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بِعِبَادِهِ لَخَبِيرٌ بَصِيرٌ

[35:31] And that which We have revealed to you of the Book, that is the truth verifying that which is before it; most surely with respect to His servants Allah is Aware, Seeing.

ثُمَّ أَوْرَثْنَا الْكِتَابَ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَيْنَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا فَمِنْهُمْ ظَالِمٌ لِّنَفْسِهِ وَمِنْهُم مُّقْتَصِدٌ وَمِنْهُمْ سَابِقٌ بِالْخَيْرَاتِ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ هُوَ الْفَضْلُ الْكَبِيرُ

[35:32] Then We gave the Book for an inheritance to those whom from among Our servants; but of them is he who makes his soul to suffer a loss, and of them is he who takes a middle course, and of them is he who is foremost in deeds of goodness by Allah’s permission; this is the great excellence.

The word ‘Istefaa’ is that special word that has always introduced Allah’s chosen guides to us.

إِنَّ اللّهَ اصْطَفَى آدَمَ وَنُوحًا وَآلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَآلَ عِمْرَانَ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ

[3:33] Surely Allah chose Adam and Nuh and the descendants of Ibrahim and the descendants of Imran above the nations.

The status of Istefaa is the very status that portrays the great qualities of the holy Prophet (s.a.w), which is the reason why his holy name is followed by the title ‘Mustafa’. This word manifests Allah’s (s.w.t) special selection. With this very word, Allah (s.w.t) has introduced those personalities to us who from the Ummah of Muhammad (s.a.w), He has specially selected and made them the heirs of the Qur’an. (Refer to tradition of Thaqalayn).

The prophets and apostles enjoy the peak of faith and wisdom as they are the leaders of mankind. Transmitting the same leadership onto another person from the people is known as ‘Wisayah’ or ‘khilafah’ and ‘Succession’ or ‘Imamah ’. After a prophet or an apostle and a leader of a nation, his son is preferred by God for succession as is mentioned in the Qur’an:

وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَاتَّبَعَتْهُمْ ذُرِّيَّتُهُم بِإِيمَانٍ أَلْحَقْنَا بِهِمْ ذُرِّيَّتَهُمْ وَمَا أَلَتْنَاهُم مِّنْ عَمَلِهِم مِّن شَيْءٍ كُلُّ امْرِئٍ بِمَا كَسَبَ رَهِينٌ

[52:21] And (as for) those who believe and their offspring follow them in faith, We will unite with them their offspring and We will not diminish to them aught of their work; every man is responsible for what he shall have wrought.

For example, in another place it is mentioned:

وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا نُوحًا وَإِبْرَاهِيمَ وَجَعَلْنَا فِي ذُرِّيَّتِهِمَا النُّبُوَّةَ وَالْكِتَابَ فَمِنْهُم مُّهْتَدٍ وَكَثِيرٌ مِّنْهُمْ فَاسِقُونَ

[57:26] And certainly We sent Nuh and Ibrahim and We gave to their offspring the (gift of) prophecy ( Nubuwwah ) and the Book; so there are among them those who go aright, and most of them are transgressors.

Now it has become obvious that after Nuh (a.s) and Ibrahim (a.s), their children were nominated for succession with the prestige of prophecy (Nubuwwah). Now that prophecy (Nubuwwah) has terminated, the book has definitely remained and Allah (s.w.t) has introduced its heirs to us in the verse:

أَوْرَثْنَا الْكِتَابَ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَيْنَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا

Therefore, one has to admit that the right of succession to the holy prophet (s.a.w) belongs to his offspring only and not to a stranger.

يَوْمَ نَدْعُو كُلَّ أُنَاسٍ بِإِمَامِهِم

[17:71] (Remember) the day when We will call every people with their Imam;

The above verse clearly necessitates the existence of an Imam in every period, every generation and every age. Referring to certain personalities, Allah has mentioned the following in the Qur’an which shows who the Imams who would have their people called with are:

وَكَذَلِكَ جَعَلْنَاكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطًا لِّتَكُونُواْ شُهَدَاء عَلَى النَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الْقِبْلَةَ الَّتِي كُنتَ عَلَيْهَا إِلاَّ لِنَعْلَمَ مَن يَتَّبِعُ الرَّسُولَ مِمَّن يَنقَلِبُ عَلَى عَقِبَيْهِ وَإِن كَانَتْ لَكَبِيرَةً إِلاَّ عَلَى الَّذِينَ هَدَى اللّهُ وَمَا كَانَ اللّهُ لِيُضِيعَ إِيمَانَكُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ بِالنَّاسِ لَرَؤُوفٌ رَّحِيمٌ

[2:143] And thus We have made you a medium (just) nation that you may be the bearers of witness to the people and (that) the Apostle may be a bearer of witness to you; and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Apostle from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people.

So we realise that these personalities who would be called with their people are those who are under the holy Prophet (s.a.w) and who are the governors and guardians of all people. And only these can be called ‘Imams’. Every generation has been instructed to follow these very personalities. (‘O you who believe, guard yourselves against evil with full awareness of divine laws and be with the truthful’) with this we come to understand that such entity remains in every generation who in the real sense of truth both in words and actions is an infallible.

ِ إِنَّمَا أَنتَ مُنذِرٌ وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ

[13:7]You are only a Warner and (there is) a guide for every people.

This shows that for every generation of human beings, the existence of a true guide is a sure thing.

So who is the guide of our time? and who Was the guide on the time of prophet Muhammad (p.B.U.h) and after his death?

THE ISLAMIC HISTORY

YOU SAID

therefore You do not believe in the prophet Abraham ? or Yusuf ?

MY ANSWER

Excuse me!!... But what are you trying to imply?

The word imam is mentioned in quran for other purposes and people. Firawn is an imam according to quran so if you think the word imam is explicitly for your concept of Imamate then you're....wrong. Has the quran described anybody rinse as a prophet?? No because Allah (swt) only uses this word to describe the prophets.

It wouldn't make sense if Allah (swt) used the word prophet to describe forward would it??? Because in islam a prophet is someone who is appointed by Allah whereas the word imam is used to describe a road and imams of kufr!! Does it make sense to you that Allah (swt) would use a word to describe only your imams when he has used the same word to describe imams of kufr??

So the word imam only means leader in its literal meaning and not your concept of Imamate.

YOU SAID

Again you seem to state things with no proof at all.

MY ANSWER

Is there enough proof in my above answer?? I've used the quran to "prove" my point.

YOU SAID

If the Book of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is sufficient as guidance

MY ANSWER

He knew they would corrupt the book so he sent prophets a.s to guide them so they will have no excuses on yawm al qiyamah.

Whereas Allah (swt) has promised to protect the quran so we don't need imams because the quran can never be corrupted unless you hold a different belief.

YOU SAID

Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth.

MY ANSWER

Allah (swt) is talking about the righteous slaves from among the nation of musa a.s, if you carry on reading the next verse you will see its a continuation..

And We divided them into twelve descendant tribes [as distinct] nations.

You see Allah (swt) is talking about the 12 tribes "and we divided THEM" unless you think they were all infallibles.

YOU SAID

073.015 [YUSUFALI]:

We have sent to you, (O men!) a messenger, to be a witness concerning you, even as We sent a messenger to Pharaoh.

Along the same lines we read in Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 9.422

Narrated Abu Sa’id al-Khudri:

The Prophet said, “You will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so much so that even if they entered a hole of a mastigure (lizard), you would follow them.” We said, “O Allah’s Apostle! (Do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?” He said, “Whom else?”

MY ANSWER

If for some reason you're implying that this verse and hadith are implying leadership then read it again and again and again.

Firstly this verse has nothing to do with this hadith STOP mixing and matching its not funny.

The verse is just simply saying that the prophet (pbuh) is a witness just like prophet musa a.s. unless you know something I don't.

As for the hadith it's talking about how Muslims will follow in the footsteps of Christians and Jews (the ones that have gone astray). No mention of leadership.

YOU SAID

As the above tradition in Sahih al-Bukhari confirms, the Prophet stated that the history of the Children of Israel will be repeated for Muslims. In fact, Qur’an has mentioned the stories of the Children of Israel to give us a way to understand the true history of Islam itself. There are many striking similarities in this regard written in Quran including the similarities of the leaders and the similarities of the people.

This being the case now compare the special Ummah of Araf verse 159 to the special Ummah of Muhammad (s) set out in Surah Araf verse 181.

Of those We have created are people who direct (others) with truth. And dispense justice therewith.

MY ANSWER

Now who's making their "own assumptions".

YOU SAID

When Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì makes a general statement in his Glorious Book, He (set) is making a SPECIFIC reference to the Ummah of Muhammad (s)

MY ANSWER

ahhhhh..... Finally something we both agree on allahu akbar.

So where is this SPECIFIC reference to the ummah of the prophet (pbuh) that there will be imams after the prophet (pbuh)??

Please please please answer this.

YOU SAID

After a prophet or an apostle and a leader of a nation, his son is preferred by God for succession as is mentioned in the Qur’an

MY ANSWER

Then why didn't the son of imam hasan a.s become the next imam??

Why did it pass to brother (according to shia) instead of son??

YOU SAID

[52:21] And (as for) those who believe and their offspring follow them in faith, We will unite with them their offspring and We will not diminish to them aught of their work; every man is responsible for what he shall have wrought.

MY ANSWER

Now who's giving there "own assumption". This verse is talking about all believers.

YOU SAID.

[57:26] And certainly We sent Nuh and Ibrahim and We gave to their offspring the (gift of) prophecy ( Nubuwwah ) and the Book; so there are among them those who go aright, and most of them are transgressors.

MY ANSWER

Exactly my point. They were prophets a.s and there offspring were described as"imams" in its literal meaning. Just like dawud a.s and adam a.s were described as caliphs. Does this mean they were caliphs like abu bakr r.a? No of course not, they were prophets but the word imam and caliph just mean leaders.

Like for eg; imam khamenei is an imam and caliph but is he actually an imam like in Imamate?? No because its just a word that can be used to describe anyone, that is why Allah (swt) has called imams of kufr, imams because imam just means leaders.

YOU SAID

Now it has become obvious that after Nuh (a.s) and Ibrahim (a.s), their children were nominated for succession with the prestige of prophecy (Nubuwwah).

MY ANSWER

That's it now you're talking sense, or should I say shiapen or al islam are talking sense.

YOU SAID

يَوْمَ نَدْعُو كُلَّ أُنَاسٍ بِإِمَامِهِم

[17:71] (Remember) the day when We will call every people with their Imam;

The above verse clearly necessitates the existence of an Imam in every period, every generation and every age. Referring to certain personalities, Allah has mentioned the following in the Qur’an which shows who the Imams who would have their people called with are:

MY ANSWER

Yea people who followed Imams of kufr will be raised with imams of kufr. This verse isn't only talking about your imams but all imams including the ones who call to hell.

Surah 9:12

And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the LEADERS of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease.

Surah 28:41

And We made them LEADERS inviting to the Fire, and on the Day of Resurrection they will not be helped.

YOU SAID

[13:7]You are only a Warner and (there is) a guide for every people.

This shows that for every generation of human beings, the existence of a true guide is a sure thing.

MY ANSWER

Did you actually read my previous posts or not??

Ok for one last time. You have for the wrong interpretation of this verse....BUT I won't argue with you about that FOR NOW...

Right so you adamantly believe that we have a GUIDE which I'm guessing you believe is imam mahdi.

Ok so the job of a "guide" is to "guide" right. So then tell me how your "guide" is guiding you??

What good is a guide if he isn't guiding??

What's the difference between not having a guide and having a guide who isn't guiding??

So realistically we don't have a guide otherwise the ayatollahs in Iran wouldn't have gone to the trouble of "electing" a supreme leader.

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Bro caliphate is NOT an usul ad so it's not as important as tawhid, nubuwwah etc etc. we don't dwell to much on these hadiths.

Whereas imamat is an usul ad din so kindly point it out in quran.

Salams

 

If you do not consider caliphate necessary then whom you follow after the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hf)?

 

Following Quran and Sunna is basic belief of Sunna, if you do not conisder the hadiths then your claim of following Sunna is certainly shattereed.

 

Moreover, this thread is not for Immamat, its for Sunni hadith naming 12 caliphs, which has not yet been mentioned by sunna. 

 

Immamat has been disscussed in many threads duly substantiated by the verses of Quran and Hadiths.

Edited by skamran110

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Beautiful since the Sunnis regard Caliphate as a non-important issue, you are fine with us doing rafdh (reject) against them ie the Three Caliphs?

Exactly....ahhhhh finally you're understanding. Caliphate is not usul ad din it is only a normal leadership.

You can compare it to Iran. They elect a supreme leader for the smooth running of the country also the supreme leader can give religious fatwas.

This is exactly what sunni caliphate was.

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Exactly....ahhhhh finally you're understanding. Caliphate is not usul ad din it is only a normal leadership.

You can compare it to Iran. They elect a supreme leader for the smooth running of the country also the supreme leader can give religious fatwas.

This is exactly what sunni caliphate was.

 

Iran's leadership is based on the most knowledgeable person should be the leader in the abscence of Imam Mehdi (as), but sunni leadership was not like that.

 

There is a Sahih hadith that when Abubakr got selected Abubakr's father claimed that he was better person to the throne.

 

Even Umar according to Sahih hadith admitted that Imam Ali (as) was the best judge, then why was he sitting on his chair even after claiming the greatness of Imam Ali (as).

 

That is why the pious 12 imams were the best choice, so do not lie that Sunni selection is equal to Wilayate faqih of Iran.

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statement:

The word imam is mentioned in quran for other purposes and people. Firawn is an imam according to quran so if you think the word imam is explicitly for your concept of Imamate then you're....wrong. Has the quran described anybody rinse as a prophet?? No because Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì only uses this word to describe the prophets.

It wouldn't make sense if Allah  used the word prophet to describe forward would it??? Because in islam a prophet is someone who is appointed by Allah whereas the word imam is used to describe a road and imams of kufr!! Does it make sense to you that Allah would use a word to describe only your imams when he has used the same word to describe imams of kufr??

 

So the word imam only means leader in its literal meaning and not your concept of Imamate.

 

 

Reply: We are talking about the means of When the Word "Imam" & "Ha'ad" or other terms which Describe leadership, I would referring to the verses which are meant for leadership, And so here, you make no sense, and no, you did not prove your point you only stated a statement out of the subject of the meaning of What I posted. your saying Imamah does not mean the concept of Imamah, when you are very ignorant of what I said, Can you please prove to me how it is not, or does not mean Imamat (leadership), When are you going to provide actual logical reasoning. you said that Imamat ( as mentioned in the Quran ) has only been termed for prophets. Very Well, care to explain to me the the following verses.

(bismillah)
 

 

 

 

And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders. And Allah said, "I am with you. If you establish prayer and give zakah and believe in My messengers and support them and loan Allah a goodly loan, I will surely remove from you your misdeeds and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow. But whoever of you disbelieves after that has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way."

 

 

 

Here Allah Appoints 12 Leaders (Imams) for Bani Israel, yet leadership is mentioned also for those who later on than became an Imam, Like Prophet Abraham (as), If you Do not believe in Imamat, then when prophet Abraham Was given the position of Imamat, then you would not follow him. Also brother "Skamran110" has mentioned good points about this verse:

 

 

 

And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders. And Allah said, "I am with you. If you establish prayer and give zakah and believe in My messengers and support them and loan Allah a goodly loan, I will surely remove from you your misdeeds and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow. But whoever of you disbelieves after that has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way."


Similarly this revelation has been sent to the prophet Muhammad saww, that there will be 12 leaders / caliphs / imams after him. This fact has been saved in quran in the above quoted verse (QURAN 4:163) in the form that there are exactly 12 names used in this verse. These include:

1- Noah,
2- Abraham
3- Ishmael
4- Isaac
5- Jacob
6- The Descendents
7- Jesus
8- Job
9- Jonah
10- Aaron
11- Solomon
12- David

Thus it confirms we should look the 12 divinely appointed leaders of Ahl al bayat in the ummah / nation of Muhammad saww the name of those has been mentioned in various prophet traditions.
If instead of the names of the prophets there were the names of 12 imams / leaders from Ahl al bayat the sayings of almighty Allah swt could have been distorted. Allah is most wise and most knowing. 

 

 


"And when Abraham was tested by his Lord with certain commands and he fulfilled them. Then He said: Lo! I appoint you an Imam for mankind."
(Quran 2:124).

 

 

As we can see, Prophet Abraham was further tested by Allah during his prophethood, and when he successfully passed the tests (which were the test on his life, leaving his wife, sacrificing his son), he was granted the position of Imamat. This shows position of Imamat is higher in degree than prophethood which has been given to him later after acquiring more qualifications. Degrees are always granted in ascending order. We have not seen any person who got his Ph.D. degree first, and then gets his highschool diploma. At least in the administration of God there is no such mess!

The first degree of Abraham, may the blessing of Allah be upon him, was becoming a servant of Allah ('Abd), then he became Prophet (Nabi), then he became Messenger (Rasul), then he became a Confident (Khalil), and then he finally became Imam.

 

Keep in mind the above verse of Quran (2:124) proves that Allah assigns Imam, and the designation of Imam is not the business of people.

Below is the your Sunni commentary of Yusuf Ali on the above verse (2:124):

Kalimat, literally "words", here used in the mystic sense of God's Will or Decree or Purpose. This verse may be taken to be the sum of the verses following. In everything Abraham fulfilled God's wish: he purified God's house; he built the sacred refuge of the Kaba; he submitted his will to God's (referring to sacrifice of his son)

 

He was promised the leadership of the world; he pleaded for his progeny, and his prayer was granted, with the limitation that if his progeny was false to God, God's promise did not reach the people who proved themselves false.

As we see, Quran clearly justifies my point of view in this matter. But again, since Prophet Abraham, Prophet Muhammad, and few others were also Imams, such belief (i.e., Imamat higher than prophethood) does not undermine their position.

 

Imam means a person who is appointed by God as a leader and as a guide (see Quran 21:73 and 32:24) to whom obedience is due, and whom people should follow. Messengers are Warners and Imams are Guides (13:7). Imams are the Stars of Guidance (6:97).

 

Muhammad (Saws) was a Prophet, a Messenger, and an Imam. By His death the door of prophethood and messengership was closed for ever. But the door of Imamat (leadership) remained open because he had successors (Caliphs; deputies). Successor means a person who succeeds the position of the previous one. It is the obvious that successors of Prophet Muhammad did not share anything about his position of prophethood and messengership. What remained for them was Imamat (leadership). And the number of these Imams are twelve as the Prophet himself testified. Also note that Quran clearly says that Imam and Caliph is assigned by God and this designation has nothing to do with people. For more evidence in the assignment of Imam by Allah, see the following verses of Quran: 38:20 (about David), 2:124 (about Abraham), 2:30 (about Adam), and 7:142, 20:29-36, 25:35 (about Aaron).

 

 

 

Statement:

He knew they would corrupt the book so he sent prophets a.s to guide them so they will have no excuses on yawm al qiyamah. Whereas Allah has promised to protect the quran so we don't need imams because the quran can never be corrupted unless you hold a different belief.

 

Brother, I did not say the Book of Allah Would be corrupt or such, But Allah as made the Quran and Ahlulbayt (s) Equal in the sense that we must hold on to them. You cannot say We don't need Imams, how dare you say such a thing, if thats what you mean, then your saying we don't need Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman to be Khalifas, So Why are they appointed? We don't need them (as you claim), For the last time, The prophet (saws) Left Imam Ali (as) as the Khalifa and guide and not Abu Bakr, who made him self Khalifa on pen & paper. The prophet (saws) said, Ali, I am the Warner an you are the ha'ad (guide) I prove it to you, and all you said he meat as a spiritual leader. Like what are you saying? why do you ignore that is true? brother I demand a Hadith that is Authetnic where the prophet says " Ali you are the Spiritual Khalifa, and Abu bakr you are the Political Khalifa.
Please at least 1, and if not at least something that makes sense. My God...*face Palm*
 

 

Statement:

So where is this SPECIFIC reference to the ummah of the prophet (s) that there will be imams after the prophet (s)??

 

I mentioned many verses to prove so, take for example the the verse where for every nation there is a guide and a Warner.
If this is sent down the prophet, then who was the guide for the Islamic Ummah? Imam Ali (as) Who the prophet said, "You are the  khalifa after" or Abu Bakr? Who made him self a Khalifa on pen and paper? also Ulu Al Amr as I mentioned later on, and gave Hadith 
to explain it but you never gave me an actual Refutation made of Proofs or Hadiths.

 

 

Statement:

Now who's making their "own assumptions".

 

Reply: Any Boy Who is Literate Could understand it, Is this your reply when put forward proof?
Please Reread what I stated in the Hadith.

 

Statements:

Ok for one last time. You have for the wrong interpretation of this verse....BUT I won't argue with you about that FOR NOW...
 

Good comeback? I have the wrong interpretations? When did you provide me a right Interpretation so you can Falsely claim I haven't  

Right so you adamantly believe that we have a GUIDE which I'm guessing you believe is imam mahdi.
Ok so the job of a "guide" is to "guide" right. So then tell me how your "guide" is guiding you?? 

How long are you going to keep running away from my posts? I made a thread Especially for you and I mentioned it a couple of times my replies,

But no answer from you what so ever. brother are you not fond of reading? or do you hate it when it does not much you beliefs?

 

Here is the post that has been siting for 2-3 weeks without an answer:
 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/235016357-believing-in-the-mahdi-af-is-obligatory/

 

What good is a guide if he isn't guiding??

 

Answered in the Thread mentioned above.

What's the difference between not having a guide and having a guide who isn't guiding??
 

Answered in the Thread mentioned above.

So realistically we don't have a guide otherwise the ayatollahs in Iran wouldn't have gone to the trouble of "electing" a supreme leader. 
 

 

Answered in the Thread Appointing a Successor, As I mentioned the Supreme Leader of Iran is a leader for Iran and not for the Whole Humanity. We in this Post and the past posts, talking about the Imam of this Whole Word. When your Referring to Ulma as leader you are mistaken, because that's no the reason of the Whole topic. I gave you the answer 3-2 times, and you I think we came to an agreement on this issue, I like, I can Repeat my self for the third time for the benefit of the thread.

 

Statement:

Now who's giving there "own assumption". This verse is talking about all believers.

Focus on the start of the verse. It was not an Assumption.

 

 

Statement:

That's it now you're talking sense, or should I say shiapen or al islam are talking sense.

 

Fail comeback. You should read them more often, if so you think the're not good enough, why wont you reply?


statement:

If for some reason you're implying that this verse and hadith are implying leadership then read it again and again and again.  Firstly this verse has nothing to do with this hadith STOP mixing and matching its not funny. 

 

That was not my point. please continue Reading into the next paragraph.


Statement:

mThen why didn't the son of imam hasan a.s become the next imam?? 

Why did it pass to brother (according to shia) instead of son??

 

Does it make a difference. Imam Hussain (as) Who is the Son of Imam Ali (as). 

And Allah as appointed the 9 Sons of Imam Hussain (as). I also gave you proof 

on our last post from Sunni Sources Concerning this issue.

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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Statement:

Exactly my point. They were prophets a.s and there offspring were described as"imams" in its literal meaning. Just like dawud a.s and adam a.s were described as caliphs. Does this mean they were caliphs like abu bakr r.a? No of course not, they were prophets but the word imam and caliph just mean leaders. 

 

That was no my Point, Did you read?

 

 

 

 

أَوْرَثْنَا الْكِتَابَ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَيْنَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا
Therefore, one has to admit that the right of succession to the holy prophet (s.a.w) belongs to his offspring only and not to a stranger.

 

يَوْمَ نَدْعُو كُلَّ أُنَاسٍ بِإِمَامِهِم
[17:71] (Remember) the day when We will call every people with their Imam;

 

The above verse clearly necessitates the existence of an Imam in every period, every generation and every age. Referring to certain personalities, Allah has mentioned the following in the Qur’an which shows who the Imams who would have their people called with are:

 

 

وَكَذَلِكَ جَعَلْنَاكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطًا لِّتَكُونُواْ شُهَدَاء عَلَى النَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الْقِبْلَةَ الَّتِي كُنتَ عَلَيْهَا إِلاَّ لِنَعْلَمَ مَن يَتَّبِعُ الرَّسُولَ مِمَّن يَنقَلِبُ عَلَى عَقِبَيْهِ وَإِن كَانَتْ لَكَبِيرَةً إِلاَّ عَلَى الَّذِينَ هَدَى اللّهُ وَمَا كَانَ اللّهُ لِيُضِيعَ إِيمَانَكُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ بِالنَّاسِ لَرَؤُوفٌ رَّحِيمٌ

[2:143] And thus We have made you a medium (just) nation that you may be the bearers of witness to the people and (that) the Apostle may be a bearer of witness to you; and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Apostle from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people.

 

 

So we realise that these personalities who would be called with their people are those who are under the holy Prophet (s.a.w) and who are the governors and guardians of all people. And only these can be called ‘Imams’. Every generation has been instructed to follow these very personalities. (‘O you who believe, guard yourselves against evil with full awareness of divine laws and be with the truthful’) with this we come to understand that such entity remains in every generation who in the real sense of truth both in words and actions is an infallible.

 

ِ إِنَّمَا أَنتَ مُنذِرٌ وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ

[13:7]You are only a Warner and (there is) a guide for every people.

This shows that for every generation of human beings, the existence of a true guide is a sure thing.

 

 

Statement:

Like for eg; imam khamenei is an imam and caliph but is he actually an imam like in Imamate?? No because its just a word that can be used to describe anyone, that is why Allah  has called imams of kufr, imams because imam just means leaders

 

Answered Above ( Also in Previous posts ) Please stop Spamming.


 


Statement

:Did you actually read my previous posts or not??

 

How do you think I knew you Ignored My Claims on the previous post.


 


So who is the guide of our time? and who Was the guide on the time of prophet Muhammad (p.B.U.h) and after his death?

 

 

 

How many times are you going to ignore this?

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Iran's leadership is based on the most knowledgeable person should be the leader in the abscence of Imam Mehdi (as), but sunni leadership was not like that.

There is a Sahih hadith that when Abubakr got selected Abubakr's father claimed that he was better person to the throne.

Even Umar according to Sahih hadith admitted that Imam Ali (as) was the best judge, then why was he sitting on his chair even after claiming the greatness of Imam Ali (as).

That is why the pious 12 imams were the best choice, so do not lie that Sunni selection is equal to Wilayate faqih of Iran.

"Most knowledgable" says who?

There's many ayatollahs who have been exiled and jailed because they don't agree with ali khamenei so who said he is the most knowledgeable?

All he's done is jailed and exiled those who disagree with him.

Statement:

Exactly my point. They were prophets a.s and there offspring were described as"imams" in its literal meaning. Just like dawud a.s and adam a.s were described as caliphs. Does this mean they were caliphs like abu bakr r.a? No of course not, they were prophets but the word imam and caliph just mean leaders.

That was no my Point, Did you read?

Statement:

Like for eg; imam khamenei is an imam and caliph but is he actually an imam like in Imamate?? No because its just a word that can be used to describe anyone, that is why Allah has called imams of kufr, imams because imam just means leaders

Answered Above ( Also in Previous posts ) Please stop Spamming.

Statement

:Did you actually read my previous posts or not??

How do you think I knew you Ignored My Claims on the previous post.

So who is the guide of our time? and who Was the guide on the time of prophet Muhammad (p.B.U.h) and after his death?

How many times are you going to ignore this?

I will answer you tonight

Salams

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"Most knowledgable" says who?

There's many ayatollahs who have been exiled and jailed because they don't agree with ali khamenei so who said he is the most knowledgeable?

All he's done is jailed and exiled those who disagree with him.

I will answer you tonight

Salams

 

 

Give me proof please, and with hard Evidences, otherwise stop Spreading such lies. 

 

 

We are Waiting.

Inshalla.

(salam)

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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Allah has two types of knowledge:

1- The knowledge that is withheld (i.e., Ghayb). As I mentioned Nobody has   control over this type of knowledge except Allah. Allah may inform "a   news from Ghayb" to some of His servants, but this is different than   "possessing Ghayb"

 

let us look at the following verse:

 

     "He possesses the Ghayb and He does not discloses His Ghayb to anyone   except to such a Messenger as He is well-pleased with." (Quran 72:26- 27).

 

From the above verse, it is evident that although Allah alone possesses the withheld knowledge (Ghayb), but He may disclose a news from it to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HF). On the other hand, Prophet Muhammad transferred whatever he was reached from the news of "Ghayb" to those who qualified, as the following verse testifies:

 

     "And he (Muhammad) is not niggardly the Knowledge of the Unseen."     (Quran 81:24).

 

Therefore, if the news of Ghayb reached to the Prophet Muhammad , it is only because it was given to him by Allah. It is for this reason that according to Quran the messengers are all instructed to tell people that they do not possess the Knowledge of Ghayb of their own, for it is reached to them by Allah only as He wishes.

 

2- The knowledge that is granted. "This is the knowledge that Allah fore-ordained (Qadar, Taqdeer), He decrees it, and carries it out (with no  modification). And this is the knowledge that has been passed down to  the Prophet Muhammad.

 

If the Prophet possessed any knowledge about the future, it is this second type of knowledge (the knowledge of what has been foreordained), and NOT the first type of knowledge (the Knowledge of the Unseen).

 

This type of knowledge is known as "the knowledge of the Book". Quran testifies that some prophets and non-prophets had this type of knowledge by which they could perform many extraordinary things with the permission of Allah. We read in Quran for Prophet Jesus that:

 

"I will also INFORM you of what things you eat and what you treasure up in your houses." (Quran 3:49; see also 5:110). References can also be made in this respect to the power of the interpretation of the tales given to Prophet Joseph (as) (see Quran 12:6,15,21,37), to the language of the birds given to Prophet David (as) and Solomon (Sulayman) (as) (see Quran 21:79).

 

Having "the Knowledge of the Book", one can do many extraordinary things with the permission of Allah. For example Quran mentions that at the time of Prophet Solomon (Sulayman), a person in the name of Asaf, who was the Minister of Solomon and had only a very small part of "the Knowledge of the Book", was able to bring the throne of Queen Bilqis from another place of the world within the twinkling of an eye:

 

     "The One with whom was just a part of the Knowledge of the Book said:

                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

     'I shall bring it to you within the twinkling of an eye!' Then when   (Solomon) saw (the throne) set in his presence, he said: 'This is by  the grace of my Lord! to test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful!'" (Quran 27:40).

 

The Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) informed his followers of the very existence of a man who was the treasurer of Knowledge of the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF), and he had declared to them that if they want to reach the Knowledge of the Holy Prophet, they should take that Knowledge from the treasurer:

 

     The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "I am the City of Knowledge,  and Ali is its Gate. So whoever intends to enter the City and the   Wisdom, he should enter from its Gate."

 

Sunni references:

(1) Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 201,637

(2) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, pp 126-127,226, Chapter of the Virtues  of Ali, narrated on the authority of two reliable reporters: one, Ibn  Abbas, whose report has been transmitted through two different but

    chain of authorities, and the other, Jabir Ibn Abdullah al-Ansari. He   said this tradition is Authentic (Sahih).

(3) Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p635, Tradition #1081

(4) Jami' al-Saghir, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v1, pp 107,374; Also in

    Jami' al-Jawami'; Also in Tarikh al-Khulafaa, p171. He said this   tradition is accepted (Hasan).

(5) al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani (d. 360); Also in al-Awsat

(6) Ma'rifah al-Sahaba, by al-Hafidh Abu Nu'aym al-Isbahani

(7) Ihyaa al-Ululm, by al-Ghazzali

(8) History of Ibn Kathir, v7, p358

(9) History of Ibn Asakir

(10) Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v2, p337; v4, p348; v7, p173;

     v11, pp 48-50; v13, p204

(11) al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p38; v2, p461

(12) Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn al-Athir, v4, p22

(13) Tahdhib al-Athar, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari

(14) Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p114

(15) Bahr al-Asateed, by al-Hafidh Abu Muhammad Hassan Samarghandi (d. 491)

(16) Siraj al-Muneer, by al-Hafidh Ali Ibn Ahmad Azizi Shafi'i (d.1070),   v2, p63

(17) Manaqib, by Ali Ibn Muhammad Ibn Tayyib al-Jalaabi Ibn Maghaazi (d.   483)

(18) Firdaws al-Akhbar, by Abu Shuja'a Shirwayh Hamadani al-Daylami (d.   509)

(19) Maqtal al-Husain, by Khateeb Kharazmi (d. 568), v1, p43

(20) Manaqib, by Khateeb Kharazmi (d. 568), p49

(21) Alif Ba'a, by Abul Hajjaaj Yusuf Ibn Muhammad Andulesi (d.605), v1,    p222

(22) Matalib al-Su'ul, by Abu Salim Muhammad Ibn Talhih Shafi'i (d. 652),    p22

(23) Jawahi al-Aghdi'in, by Noor al-Din al-Shafi'i (d. 911)

(24) Yanabi' al-Mawaddah, by al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, in Chapter 14

(25) Tadhkirat al-Khawas al-Ummah, by Sibt Ibn al-Jawzi (d. 654), p29

(26) Kunz al-Baraheen, by Shaikh Khathri

(27) Kifayat al-Talib, by Yusuf al-Ganji al-Shafi'i (d. 658), Chapter 58

(28) Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, part 15, p13, Traditions #348-  379

(29) al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, section 2,   p189

(30) Hafidh Salah al-Din al-Ulai, after copying the weakening arguments by   al-Dhahabi, has remarked "There are in this only mean attempts to   oppose for the sake of opposition, and not a single valid argument."

(31) Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn Siddeeq al-Hasani al-Maghribi, from Cairo, has  compiled a magnificent book named "Fat'h al-Mulk al-Ali bi Sihah   Hadith-e-Bab-e-Madinat al-Ilm" to prove the genuinness of the very

     above tradition. This book was printed in the year 1354 AH in Matba'   al-Islamiyyah, Egypt.

(32) Also reported by Ibn Adi on the authority of Ibn Umar, and by al-   Bazzar on the authority of Jabir Ibn Abdillah al-Ansari

... and more ...

 

The perception you have for caliphs is based on the following:

 

- Guesses

- Ijma 

 

But in the absence of hadith naming 12 caliphs it  is not certain about the authenticity of those names and that guess or Ijma is considered just false assumption / conjecture.

 

There are pilothera of hadith given in other threads that you can look, but the topic of this thread is Sunni hadith naming 12 caliphs.

 

Regards.

i dont know what do you want to prove by quoting all above ?  i always avoid reading lengthy posts so wuld be better if u keep answer in short and bspecific. I have already answered in my previous post that why 12 caliph are not mentioned in hadith by their name..

but i have asked a question if i can find all 12 imam names mentioned explicitly frm shia authentic source ?

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i dont know what do you want to prove by quoting all above ?  i always avoid reading lengthy posts so wuld be better if u keep answer in short and bspecific. I have already answered in my previous post that why 12 caliph are not mentioned in hadith by their name..

but i have asked a question if i can find all 12 imam names mentioned explicitly frm shia authentic source ?

 

yes You can of course,

Check Al-Islam.

if your Consistent, I can give you a whole page, if you can read Arabic, if English then no problem, Also Sunni sources do  want? 

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yes You can of course,

Check Al-Islam.

if your Consistent, I can give you a whole page, if you can read Arabic, if English then no problem, Also Sunni sources do  want? 

there is no need to give me a link or a whole page. it would be gr8 if u provide any single authentic shia hadith which explicitly mention the name of  all 12 imams ..

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there is no need to give me a link or a whole page. it would be gr8 if u provide any single authentic shia hadith which explicitly mention the name of  all 12 imams ..

 

 

Arabic? English? =)

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i dont know what do you want to prove by quoting all above ?  i always avoid reading lengthy posts so wuld be better if u keep answer in short and bspecific. I have already answered in my previous post that why 12 caliph are not mentioned in hadith by their name..

but i have asked a question if i can find all 12 imam names mentioned explicitly frm shia authentic source ?

 

I restate my answer which you have not read:

 

There are many hadiths on the names of 12 Imams you can find in other topics of this forum like " 12 Imams decalring their divine appointment". 

 

Just to remind you the topic of this thread is not Immamat it is Sunni hadith naming 12 caliphs which still has not been presented.

 

Regards

Edited by skamran110

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there is no need to give me a link or a whole page. it would be gr8 if u provide any single authentic shia hadith which explicitly mention the name of  all 12 imams ..

 

 

 

Sunni Source:

 

قد ذكر النبيّ(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) خلفاءه من بعده بطرق مختلفة.

فتارة يشير(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) إلى العدد، كما في الروايات المشهورة عند السُنّة والشيعة: (الخلفاء من بعدي اثنا عشر)( ).

تارة يشير(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) إلى القبيلة، كما في قوله(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم): (كلّهم من قريش)( ).

وأخرى يشير إلى البيت الذي ينتمون إليه، كما في إحدى طرق حديث الخلفاء اثنا عشر، قوله(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم): (كلّهم من بني هاشم)( ).

وتارة يذكرهم بأسمائهم، كما ذكر ذلك الخوارزمي الحنفي في كتابه (مقتل الحسين(عليه السلام)): بسنده عن أبي سلمى، راعي إبل رسول الله(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم)، قال: سمعت رسول الله(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) يقول: (ليلة أسري بي إلى السماء، قال لي الجليل جلّ وعلا آمَنَ الرَّسُولُ بِمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِنْ رَبِّهِ).

قلت: والمؤمنون.

قال: صدقت، قال: يا محمّد إنّي اطّلعت إلى الأرض إطلاعة فاخترتك منها فشقـَقت لك اسماً من أسمائي فلا أذكر في موضع إلاّ ذكرتَ معي، فأنا المحمود وأنت محمّد، ثمّ أطّلعت الثانية فاخترت عليّاً فشققت له اسماً من أسمائي، فأنا الأعلى وهو عليّ. يا محمّد! إنّي خلقتك وخلقت عليّاً وفاطمة والحسن والحسين والأئمّة من ولده من سنخ نور من نوري، وعرضت ولايتكم على أهل السماوات، وأهل الأرض فمن قبلها كان عندي من المؤمنين، ومن جحدها كان عندي من الكافرين. يا محمّد! لو أنّ عبداً من عبيدي عبدني حتى ينقطع أو يصير كالشن البالي، ثمّ أتاني جاحداً لولايتكم ما غفرت له حتى يقرَّ بولايتكم.

يا محمّد! أتحبّ أن تراهم؟

قلت: نعم، يا ربّ.

فقال لي: التفت عن يمين العرش.

فالتفت، فإذا أنا بعليّ وفاطمة والحسن والحسين، وعليّ بن الحسين، ومحمّد بن عليّ، وجعفر بن محمّد، وموسى بن جعفر، وعليّ بن موسى، ومحمّد بن عليّ، وعليّ بن محمّد، والحسن بن عليّ، والمهدي في ضحضاح من نور قياماً يصلّون وهو في وسطهم (يعني المهدي)، كأنّه كوكب درّي.

قال: يا محمّد! هؤلاء الحجج، وهو الثائر من عترتك، وعزّتي وجلالي إنّه الحجّة الواجبة لأوليائي والمنتقم من أعدائي)(مقتل الحسين 1/95). وهذا الحديث أيضاً رواه القندوزي الحنفي في (ينابيع المودة 3/380))، وفيه: (قال: يا محمّد هؤلاء حججي على عبادي وهم أوصياؤك...) الحديث, وأيضا رواه الشيخ الحمويني الشافعي في (فرائد السمطين ج2 آخر الكتاب).

وهناك كتب أخرى ذكرت فضائل الأئمّة(عليهم السلام) ومناقبهم وأوردتهم فرداً فرداً، كما في (تذكرة الخواص) للسبط بن الجوزي الحنفي. هذا فضلاً عمّا ورد من كتب كثيرة متكاثرة بحقّ أمير المؤمنين(عليه السلام) وفضله ومناقبه والدلائل الكثيرة الدالّة على إمامته وخلافته من كتب أهل السُنّة.

 

ودمتم في رعاية الله

 

 

http://www.aqaed.com/faq/1692/

I can Translate it, In English if you you have trouble with Arabic.

 

 

 

Shia Source:

قد صنّف غير واحد من أصحاب الأئمة كتاباً في الأئمة (عليهم السلام) وفي خصوص الثاني عشر المهدي (ع) وغيبته , على أساس الروايات والاخبار الواردة , وقد وصلنا بعض تلك الكتب. 

ومنها كتاب الفضل بن شاذان النيسابوري من أصحاب الإمامين الرضا والجواد (عليهما السلام) , واسمه (كتاب الغيبة) , وإليك نصّ رواية واحدة من رواياته الصحيحة (الفضل بن شاذان , عن عبد الرحمن بن أبي نجران , عن عاصم بن حميد , عن أبي حمزة الثمالي .وعن الحسن بن محبوب , عن أبي حمزة الثمالي , عن سعيد بن جبير , عن ابن عباس , انه قال : قال رسول الله (ص) : (لما عرج بي إلى السماء بلغت سدرة المنتهى ناداني ربي جل جلاله فقال : يا محمد .فقلت : لبيك لبيك يا رب .

قال : ما أرسلت رسولاً فانقضت أيامه إلا أقام بالأمر بعده وصيّه , فأنا جعلت علي بن أبي طالب خليفتك وإمام أمتك , ثم الحسن , ثم الحسين , ثم علي بن الحسين , ثم محمد بن علي , ثم جعفر بن محمد , ثم موسى بن جعفر , ثم علي بن موسى الرضا , ثم محمد بن علي , ثم علي بن محمد , ثم الحسن بن علي , ثم الحجة بن الحسن .يا محمد , ارفع رأسك .فرفعت رأسي , فإذا بأنوار علي والحسن والحسين وتسعة أولاد الحسين والحجة في وسطهم يتلألأ كأنه كوكب دري.فقال الله تعالى : يا محمد , هؤلاء خلفائي وحججي في الأرض وخلفاؤك وأوصياؤك من بعدك , فطوبى لمن أحبهم والويل لمن أبغضهم )) . 

ودمتم في رعاية الله

 

http://www.aqaed.com/faq/1690/

(salam)

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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Sunni Source:

 

قد ذكر النبيّ(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) خلفاءه من بعده بطرق مختلفة.

فتارة يشير(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) إلى العدد، كما في الروايات المشهورة عند السُنّة والشيعة: (الخلفاء من بعدي اثنا عشر)( ).

تارة يشير(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) إلى القبيلة، كما في قوله(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم): (كلّهم من قريش)( ).

وأخرى يشير إلى البيت الذي ينتمون إليه، كما في إحدى طرق حديث الخلفاء اثنا عشر، قوله(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم): (كلّهم من بني هاشم)( ).

وتارة يذكرهم بأسمائهم، كما ذكر ذلك الخوارزمي الحنفي في كتابه (مقتل الحسين(عليه السلام)): بسنده عن أبي سلمى، راعي إبل رسول الله(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم)، قال: سمعت رسول الله(صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) يقول: (ليلة أسري بي إلى السماء، قال لي الجليل جلّ وعلا آمَنَ الرَّسُولُ بِمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِنْ رَبِّهِ).

قلت: والمؤمنون.

قال: صدقت، قال: يا محمّد إنّي اطّلعت إلى الأرض إطلاعة فاخترتك منها فشقـَقت لك اسماً من أسمائي فلا أذكر في موضع إلاّ ذكرتَ معي، فأنا المحمود وأنت محمّد، ثمّ أطّلعت الثانية فاخترت عليّاً فشققت له اسماً من أسمائي، فأنا الأعلى وهو عليّ. يا محمّد! إنّي خلقتك وخلقت عليّاً وفاطمة والحسن والحسين والأئمّة من ولده من سنخ نور من نوري، وعرضت ولايتكم على أهل السماوات، وأهل الأرض فمن قبلها كان عندي من المؤمنين، ومن جحدها كان عندي من الكافرين. يا محمّد! لو أنّ عبداً من عبيدي عبدني حتى ينقطع أو يصير كالشن البالي، ثمّ أتاني جاحداً لولايتكم ما غفرت له حتى يقرَّ بولايتكم.

يا محمّد! أتحبّ أن تراهم؟

قلت: نعم، يا ربّ.

فقال لي: التفت عن يمين العرش.

فالتفت، فإذا أنا بعليّ وفاطمة والحسن والحسين، وعليّ بن الحسين، ومحمّد بن عليّ، وجعفر بن محمّد، وموسى بن جعفر، وعليّ بن موسى، ومحمّد بن عليّ، وعليّ بن محمّد، والحسن بن عليّ، والمهدي في ضحضاح من نور قياماً يصلّون وهو في وسطهم (يعني المهدي)، كأنّه كوكب درّي.

قال: يا محمّد! هؤلاء الحجج، وهو الثائر من عترتك، وعزّتي وجلالي إنّه الحجّة الواجبة لأوليائي والمنتقم من أعدائي)(مقتل الحسين 1/95). وهذا الحديث أيضاً رواه القندوزي الحنفي في (ينابيع المودة 3/380))، وفيه: (قال: يا محمّد هؤلاء حججي على عبادي وهم أوصياؤك...) الحديث, وأيضا رواه الشيخ الحمويني الشافعي في (فرائد السمطين ج2 آخر الكتاب).

وهناك كتب أخرى ذكرت فضائل الأئمّة(عليهم السلام) ومناقبهم وأوردتهم فرداً فرداً، كما في (تذكرة الخواص) للسبط بن الجوزي الحنفي. هذا فضلاً عمّا ورد من كتب كثيرة متكاثرة بحقّ أمير المؤمنين(عليه السلام) وفضله ومناقبه والدلائل الكثيرة الدالّة على إمامته وخلافته من كتب أهل السُنّة.

 

ودمتم في رعاية الله

 

 

http://www.aqaed.com/faq/1692/

I can Translate it, In English if you you have trouble with Arabic.

 

 

 

Shia Source:

قد صنّف غير واحد من أصحاب الأئمة كتاباً في الأئمة (عليهم السلام) وفي خصوص الثاني عشر المهدي (ع) وغيبته , على أساس الروايات والاخبار الواردة , وقد وصلنا بعض تلك الكتب. 

ومنها كتاب الفضل بن شاذان النيسابوري من أصحاب الإمامين الرضا والجواد (عليهما السلام) , واسمه (كتاب الغيبة) , وإليك نصّ رواية واحدة من رواياته الصحيحة (الفضل بن شاذان , عن عبد الرحمن بن أبي نجران , عن عاصم بن حميد , عن أبي حمزة الثمالي .وعن الحسن بن محبوب , عن أبي حمزة الثمالي , عن سعيد بن جبير , عن ابن عباس , انه قال : قال رسول الله (ص) : (لما عرج بي إلى السماء بلغت سدرة المنتهى ناداني ربي جل جلاله فقال : يا محمد .فقلت : لبيك لبيك يا رب .

قال : ما أرسلت رسولاً فانقضت أيامه إلا أقام بالأمر بعده وصيّه , فأنا جعلت علي بن أبي طالب خليفتك وإمام أمتك , ثم الحسن , ثم الحسين , ثم علي بن الحسين , ثم محمد بن علي , ثم جعفر بن محمد , ثم موسى بن جعفر , ثم علي بن موسى الرضا , ثم محمد بن علي , ثم علي بن محمد , ثم الحسن بن علي , ثم الحجة بن الحسن .يا محمد , ارفع رأسك .فرفعت رأسي , فإذا بأنوار علي والحسن والحسين وتسعة أولاد الحسين والحجة في وسطهم يتلألأ كأنه كوكب دري.فقال الله تعالى : يا محمد , هؤلاء خلفائي وحججي في الأرض وخلفاؤك وأوصياؤك من بعدك , فطوبى لمن أحبهم والويل لمن أبغضهم )) . 

ودمتم في رعاية الله

 

http://www.aqaed.com/faq/1690/

(salam)

i was asking only shia authentic source.. though the first one is also frm shia source but here i will b more focus on the 2nd narration..i tried to find hard to locate al fadl book (كتاب الغيبة).. wht i know abt him tht his actual work was lost.. so may i ask,

do you have his book ?

when this book was reprinted ?

can u provide me original scan page of this book ?

I restate my answer which you have not read:

 

There are many hadiths on the names of 12 Imams you can find in other topics of this forum like " 12 Imams decalring their divine appointment". 

 

Just to remind you the topic of this thread is not Immamat it is Sunni hadith naming 12 caliphs which still has not been presented.

 

Regards

i have already replied you so dont want to waste my time more on this topic..

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i was asking only shia authentic source.. though the first one is also frm shia source but here i will b more focus on the 2nd narration..i tried to find hard to locate al fadl book (كتاب الغيبة).. wht i know abt him tht his actual work was lost.. so may i ask,

do you have his book ?

when this book was reprinted ?

can u provide me original scan page of this book ?

i have already replied you so dont want to waste my time more on this topic..

 

 

I will try my best Inshalla, But first of All can you please tell me Why so much Doubt? Of course We an provide hundreds of Hadiths Where the the names of the Imams are mentioned Separately and Even they Giving Speeches to call people to Wilayat.

I am no Questioning your Purpose of the post, I just like to know Why, Because I don't like to wast my time.

 

 

(salam) 

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(bismillah)

 

Proof In Our books of the names of the 12 Imams in One Hadith and in Many.



Hadith one:


 

الطائفة الرابعة: ما تضمن تعيين أحاد الأئمة الاثني عشر بأسمائهم، أو نعوتهم، أو نحو ذلك. وهو أحاديث كثيرة..

 ـ ما روي مسنداً عن الإمام أبي جعفر محمد بن علي الباقر (عليه السلام) في الكتاب الذي قرأه على أهل بيته بإملاء رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) وخط أمير

 المؤمنين (عليه السلام)، ويتضمن أسماء الأئمة الاثني عشر (صلوات الله عليهم) ومجمل حياتهم ووظائفهم

 

 

Shai Sources:

(1) بحار الأنوار 36: 201. كمال الدين وتمام النعمة: 312 ـ 313.


بحار الأنوار 36: 201. :


post-83202-0-85817100-1378016433_thumb.jpost-83202-0-63172500-1378016435_thumb.jpost-83202-0-43954300-1378016438_thumb.j

 

 

 

 

 



 


 كمال الدين وتمام النعمة: 313 -312:
 
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Edited by TheIslamHistory

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Hadith #2

 

 

ـ حديث إسحاق بن عمار عن الإمام الصادق (عليه السلام)، قال فيه: "وجدنا صحيفة بإملاء رسول الله وخط أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام)..." وذكر الكتاب الذي أشرنا إليه عند ذكر الحديث السابق 2).

 

 

 

(2) بحار الأنوار 36: 200

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by TheIslamHistory

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Hadith # 3
 

ـ . 3حديث اللوح الذي رآه جابر بن عبد الله الأنصاري عند الصديقة سيدة النساء فاطمة الزهراء (عليه السلام) المشتمل على أسماء الأئمة الاثني عشر (عليهم السلام)،والمتضمن ما رسم  في الكتاب السابق.

وقد روي بطرق متعددة عن بكر بن صالـح عن عبد الرحمن بن سالم

عن أبي بصير عن الإمام أبي عبد الله جعفر بن محمد الصادق (عليه السلام)).




1) الكافي 1: 527 ـ 528. بحار الأنوار 36: 195، 198.


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And much more, But I don;t have time to to post them all,

 

http://www.alhakeem.com/arabic/pages/book.php?bcc=682&itg=4&bi=11&s=ct

 

and Considering the Book of Ghayba, of the Nisabori ( The Companion of Imam Al Rida and jawad (as), I Could not find it, But I think Its In Iraq Founded, but not sure, But many Books of the Companions have his book as a reference.


(salam)

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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@TheIslamHistory, all your posts are irrelevant.. my arabic is bit a weak ... so wuld be gr8 if u point me towards the right hadith where all 12 names are explicitly mentioned.. plz keep in mind i m not asking for the word "12" , but wht i m looking for a single authentic shia hadith which explicitly mention the name of all your imams..

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@TheIslamHistory, all your posts are irrelevant.. my arabic is bit a weak ... so wuld be gr8 if u point me towards the right hadith where all 12 names are explicitly mentioned.. plz keep in mind i m not asking for the word "12" , but wht i m looking for a single authentic shia hadith which explicitly mention the name of all your imams..

 

Can you not see? Its right above you.

Also a link in below at the end.

 

 

 

You cant Download and approve of the References your Self:

I have approved 3-4 so far, if you read you can see their names have been mentioned.

     

(salam)

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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Hadith #4

 

 

32 ـ حديث غالب الجهني عن الإمام الباقر (عليه السلام) قال: "إن الأئمة بعد رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) بعدد نقباء بني إسرائيل، وكانوا اثني عشر. الفائز من والاهم، والهالك من عاداهم. لقد أخبرني أبي عن أبيه. قال: قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) لما أسري بي إلى السماء نظرت فإذا على ساق العرش مكتوب: لا إله إلا الله، محمد رسول الله، أيدته بعلي..." ثم ذكر تمام الحديث بتغيير يسير (1).

33 ـ وقريب منه حديث جابر عن الإمام الباقر (عليه السلام) : "قلت له: يا ابن رسول الله، إن قوماً يقولون: إن الله تبارك وتعالى جعل الإمامة في عقب الحسن والحسين... ثم قال: يا جابر، إن الأئمة هم الذين نص عليهم رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) بالإمامة، وهم الذين قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) : لما أسري بي إلى السماء وجدت أساميهم مكتوبة على ساق العرش بالنور اثني عشر اسم. منهم علي، وسبطاه، وعلي، ومحمد، وجعفر، وموسى، وعلي، ومحمد، وعلي، والحسن،والحجة القائم. فهذه الأئمة من أهل بيت الصفوة والطهارة..." (2).

ويؤكدها حديث واثلة المتضمن لأمر الله تعالى للنبي (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) بالوصية لأمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام) وقوله له: إن الأئمة من بعده اثنا عشر أمناء معصومون وأنه أراه أنوارهم، من دون أن يذكرهم بأسمائهم (3).

34 ـ حديث أبي هريرة في دخول الحسين (عليه السلام) على النبي (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) بمحضر جماعة من الصحابة، واستبشار النبي (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)به، وقوله (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) : "اللهم إني أحبه، فأحبه، وأحب من يحبه، يا حسين أنت الإمام ابن الإمام أبو الأئمة تسعة من ولدك أئمة أبرار" ثم سؤال عبدالله بن مسعود عنهم،

 

ـــــــــــــــــــــــ

(1) إثبات الهداة بالنصوص والمعجزات 2: 558 ـ 559. كفاية الأثر: 244 ـ 245. بحار الأنوار 36: 390.

(2) بحار الأنوار 36: 357. ينابيع المودة 3: 249.

(3) إثبات الهداة بالنصوص والمعجزات 2: 530.

 

 

 

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Thanks brother TheIslamHistory, for presenting the marvelous proof from the books on 12 Imams from Shia and Sunni sources.

 

Nice work you do, in each thread.


Thank you brother, May Allah bless you and Protect you, Reward you for your Kindness.

 

 

(salam)

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Certainly hadiths on 12 Imams / leaders / caliphs after the prophet are mentioned in both Sunna and Shia sources.

 

The names of those 12 leaders / Imams are mentioned in hadiths with Shia and Sunna sources.

 

The names of 12 leaders / caliphs of Sunna including their first 3 caliphs are not substantiated by any hadith. In the absence of such hadith the claim of sunna about their 12 caliphs is  certainly weaker.

Edited by skamran110

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skamran110, on 09 Sept 2013 - 5:56 PM, said:snapback.png

 

The following are the names of 12 leaders / caliphs of Sunna:

1- Abubakr

2-Umar

3- Usman

4-Ali bin Abi Talib

5-Hassan bin Ali 

6-?

7-?

8-?

9-?

10-?

11-?

12-Al-Mahdi

 

The above given names are from Sunna for their 12 (rightly guided caliphs), they are just the names as there is no Single Hadith of the prophet saww ever mentioing those 12 names. These are based on guess, qiyas or ijma of sunni ulema. In the absence of any hadith these are just the names,without any authority.

 

 

The above given names are from Sunna for their 12 (rightly guided caliphs), they are just the names as there is no Single Hadith of the prophet saww ever mentioning those 12 names. These are based on guess, qiyas or ijma of sunni ulema. In the absence of any hadith these are just the names, without any authority. 

 

What does the Quran indicates for the names devised by the people?

 

[Hud] said, "Already have defilement and anger fallen upon you from your Lord. Do you dispute with me concerning [mere] names you have named them, you and your fathers, for which Allah has not sent down any authority? Then wait; indeed, I am with you among those who wait." (7:70)

 

So have you considered al-Lat and al-'UzzaAnd Manat, the third - the other one? (53:19,20)

 

They are not but [mere] names you have named them - you and your forefathers - for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow not except assumption and what [their] souls desire, and there has already come to them from their Lord guidance.(53:23)

 

Thus these names for 3 Idols and alike are devised by the fore fathers of the people without any authority, and they follow assumptions and conjectures. These names certainly do not have any authority for obeying them. 

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skamran110, on 09 Sept 2013 - 5:56 PM, said:snapback.png

 

The above given names are from Sunna for their 12 (rightly guided caliphs), they are just the names as there is no Single Hadith of the prophet saww ever mentioning those 12 names. These are based on guess, qiyas or ijma of sunni ulema. In the absence of any hadith these are just the names, without any authority. 

 

 

(salam)

 

Brother you have misunderstood the Hadith of 12 RULERS, nowhere they are referred to as 'rightly guided 12 caliphs'. No such thing. It is just a prophecy of the Prophet (saw) that twelve RULERS (good or bad) will come and all of them are QURAISH and Islam will be dominant during their RULE. 

 

Some scholars like Mula Ali Qari and ibn Taymiyyah gave this list:

 

Abu Bakr
Umar
Uthman
Ali
Mu'awiya 
Yazid bin Mu'awiya
Abdul Malik bin Marwan
Walid bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan
Sulayman bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan
Umar bin Abdul Aziz
Yazid bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan
Hasham bin Abdul Malik bin Marwan

 

In my opinion the list is logical because all of these were from QURAISH, they were RULERS and Islam was dominant (strong and spreading rapidly through conquests etc) during their rule. 

 

One thing is for sure, it doesn't refer to Shia twelve Imams for tens of reasons. 

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It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:

I heard the Messenger of Allah () say: Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been twelve Caliphs. Then the Holy Prophet () said something which I could not understand. I asked my father: What did he say? He said: He has said that all of them (twelve Caliphs) will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا هَدَّابُ بْنُ خَالِدٍ الأَزْدِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ سِمَاكِ بْنِ حَرْبٍ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ جَابِرَ بْنَ سَمُرَةَ، يَقُولُ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ الإِسْلاَمُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ قَالَ كَلِمَةً لَمْ أَفْهَمْهَا فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1821 d

In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 8

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 20, Hadith 4480

  (deprecated numbering scheme)

 

It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura that the Holy Prophet () said:

This order will continue to be dominant until there have been twelve Caliphs. The narrator says: Then he said something which I could not understand, and I said to my father: What did he say? My father told me that he said that all of them (Caliphs) would be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، عَنْ جَابِرِ، بْنِ سَمُرَةَ قَالَ قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الأَمْرُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ بِشَىْءٍ لَمْ أَفْهَمْهُ فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference: Sahih Muslim 1821 e

In-book reference: Book 33, Hadith 9

USC-MSA web (English) reference: Book 20, Hadith 4481

  (deprecated numbering scheme)

 

It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:

I joined the company of the Holy Prophet () with my father and I heard him say: This Caliphate will not end until there have been twelve Caliphs among them. The narrator said: Then he (the Holy Prophet) said something that I could not follow. I said to my father: What did he say? He said: He has said: All of them will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرٌ، عَنْ حُصَيْنٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ح وَحَدَّثَنَا رِفَاعَةُ بْنُ الْهَيْثَمِ الْوَاسِطِيُّ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لَهُ - حَدَّثَنَا خَالِدٌ، - يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الطَّحَّانَ - عَنْ حُصَيْنٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ دَخَلْتُ مَعَ أَبِي عَلَى النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِنَّ هَذَا الأَمْرَ لاَ يَنْقَضِي حَتَّى يَمْضِيَ فِيهِمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ بِكَلاَمٍ خَفِيَ عَلَىَّ - قَالَ - فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ قَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1821 a

In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 5

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 20, Hadith 4477

  (deprecated numbering scheme)

 

It has been reported on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:

I went with my father to the Messenger of Allah (may peeace be upon him) and I heard him say: This religion would continue to remain powerful and dominant until there have been twelve Caliphs. Then he added something which I couldn't catch on account of the noise of the people. I asked my father: What did he say? My father said: He has said that all of them will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا نَصْرُ بْنُ عَلِيٍّ الْجَهْضَمِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ بْنُ زُرَيْعٍ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عَوْنٍ، ح وَحَدَّثَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عُثْمَانَ النَّوْفَلِيُّ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لَهُ - حَدَّثَنَا أَزْهَرُ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عَوْنٍ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ انْطَلَقْتُ إِلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَمَعِي أَبِي فَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الدِّينُ عَزِيزًا مَنِيعًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ كَلِمَةً صَمَّنِيهَا النَّاسُ فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ قَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1821 f

In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 10

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 20, Hadith 4482

  (deprecated numbering scheme)

 

Narrated Jabir b. Samurah:

I heard the Messenger of Allah () say: This religion will continue to be strong till the time of twelve caliphs. The people then uttered: Allah is more great and uproared. He then silently a word which I could not understand. So I said to my father: What did he say, father ? He said: All of them will belong to Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا مُوسَى بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، حَدَّثَنَا وُهَيْبٌ، حَدَّثَنَا دَاوُدُ، عَنْ عَامِرٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الدِّينُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ فَكَبَّرَ النَّاسُ وَضَجُّوا ثُمَّ قَالَ كَلِمَةً خَفِيَّةً قُلْتُ لأَبِي يَا أَبَةِ مَا قَالَ قَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Grade   : Sahih (Al-Albani)              صحيح   (الألباني)                حكم     :

Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 4280

In-book reference : Book 38, Hadith 2

English translation : Book 37, Hadith 4267

 

 

Narrated 'Amr b. Suh'aib:

On his father's authority, said that his grandfather reported that the value of the blood-money at the time of the Messenger of Allah () was eight hundred dinars or eight thousand dirhams, and the blood-money for the people of the Book was half of that for Muslims.

He said: This applied till Umar (Allah be pleased with him) became caliph and he made a speech in which he said: Take note! Camels have become dear. So Umar fixed the value for those who possessed gold at one thousand dinars, for those who possessed silver at twelve thousand (dirhams), for those who possessed cattle at two hundred cows, for those who possessed sheep at two thousand sheep, and for those who possessed suits of clothing at two hundred suits. He left the blood-money for dhimmis (protected people) as it was, not raising it in proportion to the increase he made in the blood-wit.

حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ حَكِيمٍ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ عُثْمَانَ، حَدَّثَنَا حُسَيْنٌ الْمُعَلِّمُ، عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ شُعَيْبٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ جَدِّهِ، قَالَ كَانَتْ قِيمَةُ الدِّيَةِ عَلَى عَهْدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ثَمَانَمِائَةِ دِينَارٍ أَوْ ثَمَانِيَةَ آلاَفِ دِرْهَمٍ وَدِيَةُ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ يَوْمَئِذٍ النِّصْفُ مِنْ دِيَةِ الْمُسْلِمِينَ قَالَ فَكَانَ ذَلِكَ كَذَلِكَ حَتَّى اسْتُخْلِفَ عُمَرُ رَحِمَهُ اللَّهُ فَقَامَ خَطِيبًا فَقَالَ أَلاَ إِنَّ الإِبِلَ قَدْ غَلَتْ ‏.‏ قَالَ فَفَرَضَهَا عُمَرُ عَلَى أَهْلِ الذَّهَبِ أَلْفَ دِينَارٍ وَعَلَى أَهْلِ الْوَرِقِ اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ أَلْفًا وَعَلَى أَهْلِ الْبَقَرِ مِائَتَىْ بَقَرَةٍ وَعَلَى أَهْلِ الشَّاءِ أَلْفَىْ شَاةٍ وَعَلَى أَهْلِ الْحُلَلِ مِائَتَىْ حُلَّةٍ ‏.‏ قَالَ وَتَرَكَ دِيَةَ أَهْلِ الذِّمَّةِ لَمْ يَرْفَعْهَا فِيمَا رَفَعَ مِنَ الدِّيَةِ ‏.‏

Grade   : Hasan (Al-Albani)             حسن   (الألباني)   حكم     :

Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 4542

In-book reference : Book 41, Hadith 49

English translation : Book 40, Hadith 4527

It has been narrated on the authority of Amir b. Sa'd b. Abu Waqqas who said:

I wrote (a letter) to Jabir b. Samura and sent it to him through my servant Nafi', asking him to inform me of something he had heard from the Messenger of Allah (). He wrote to me (in reply): I heard the Messenger of Allah () say on Friday evening, the day on which al-Aslami was stoned to death (for committing adultery): The Islamic religion will continue until the Hour has been established, or you have been ruled over by twelve Caliphs, all of them being from the Quraish. also heard him say: A small force of the Muslims will capture the white palace, the police of the Persian Emperor or his descendants. I also heard him say: Before the Day of Judgment there will appear (a number of) impostors. You are to guard against them. I also heard him say: When God grants wealth to any one of you, he should first spend it on himself and his family (and then give it in charity to the poor). I heard him (also) say: I will be your forerunner at the Cistern (expecting your arrival).

حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، وَأَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ قَالاَ حَدَّثَنَا حَاتِمٌ، - وَهُوَ ابْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ - عَنِ الْمُهَاجِرِ بْنِ مِسْمَارٍ، عَنْ عَامِرِ بْنِ سَعْدِ بْنِ أَبِي وَقَّاصٍ، قَالَ كَتَبْتُ إِلَى جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ مَعَ غُلاَمِي نَافِعٍ أَنْ أَخْبِرْنِي بِشَىْءٍ، سَمِعْتَهُ مِنْ، رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ فَكَتَبَ إِلَىَّ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَوْمَ جُمُعَةٍ عَشِيَّةَ رُجِمَ الأَسْلَمِيُّ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ الدِّينُ قَائِمًا حَتَّى تَقُومَ السَّاعَةُ أَوْ يَكُونَ عَلَيْكُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ وَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ عُصَيْبَةٌ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ يَفْتَتِحُونَ الْبَيْتَ الأَبْيَضَ بَيْتَ كِسْرَى أَوْ آلِ كِسْرَى ‏"‏ ‏.‏ وَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِنَّ بَيْنَ يَدَىِ السَّاعَةِ كَذَّابِينَ فَاحْذَرُوهُمْ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ وَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِذَا أَعْطَى اللَّهُ أَحَدَكُمْ خَيْرًا فَلْيَبْدَأْ بِنَفْسِهِ وَأَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ وَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ أَنَا الْفَرَطُ عَلَى الْحَوْضِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 1822 a

In-book reference : Book 33, Hadith 11

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 20, Hadith 4483

  (deprecated numbering scheme)

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