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Muslim2010

Sunni Hadith For Names Of 12 Caliphs

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just give me names of those 12 caliphs. that's it. simple as it is. These hadiths found in Sunni books.

Firstly have you researched the meaning of self fulfilling prophecy??

just give me names of those 12 caliphs. that's it. simple as it is. These hadiths found in Sunni books.

4 rightly guided caliphs and some say imam hasan also imam mahdi the rest could have been anyone of the caliphs who passed as long as they were righteous, eg; umar bin Abdul aziz.

Question:

How does this help you??

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Firstly have you researched the meaning of self fulfilling prophecy??

4 rightly guided caliphs and some say imam hasan also imam mahdi the rest could have been anyone of the caliphs who passed as long as they were righteous, eg; umar bin Abdul aziz.

Question:

How does this help you??

 

how can Hazrat Umar bin Abdul Aziz (ra) can be righteous according to you? I remember you told me in another thread "Umar bin abdul aziz did mistake giving Fadak back to Ahl-e-Bait (as)?" 

 

It helps so much, because Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) already told us about 12 caliphs (who are all from Quraish). You still can't name all of them. 

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how can Hazrat Umar bin Abdul Aziz (ra) can be righteous according to you? I remember you told me in another thread "Umar bin abdul aziz did mistake giving Fadak back to Ahl-e-Bait (as)?"

It helps so much, because Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) already told us about 12 caliphs (who are all from Quraish). You still can't name all of them.

Why can't somebody be righteous if they make a mistake??? He wasn't infalliable.

You trying to tell me that khomeni or any other religious leader cannot be called "righteous" because he may make mistakes. Righteous does not mean infalliable maybe you should read up on the meaning of righteous.

Firstly the hadith of twelve caliphs doesn't prove anything for you.

1. They were from QURAISH and not just AHLE BAYT. Abu bakr umar usman ali hasan umar bin Abdul aziz were all from QURAISH ( may Allah ( swt) be pleased with them all).

2. It doesn't say they are appointed nor does it say that they are infalliable.

So again, how does the hadith of twelve caliphs help you prove anything???

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Why can't somebody be righteous if they make a mistake??? He wasn't infalliable.

You trying to tell me that khomeni or any other religious leader cannot be called "righteous" because he may make mistakes. Righteous does not mean infalliable maybe you should read up on the meaning of righteous.

Firstly the hadith of twelve caliphs doesn't prove anything for you.

1. They were from QURAISH and not just AHLE BAYT. Abu bakr umar usman ali hasan umar bin Abdul aziz were all from QURAISH ( may Allah ( swt) be pleased with them all).

2. It doesn't say they are appointed nor does it say that they are infalliable.

So again, how does the hadith of twelve caliphs help you prove anything???

 

did I talk about infallible? it was not about infallibility etc. anyways, you did not get my point. Never mind. it is not our topic.

 

There were still more caliphs who were not from Quraish. Some Sunnis trying to include Yazid (la) and his father (la) in 12 caliphs. You only named me 5-7 names. what about others? Are they coming soon? 

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did I talk about infallible? it was not about infallibility etc. anyways, you did not get my point. Never mind. it is not our topic.

There were still more caliphs who were not from Quraish. Some Sunnis trying to include Yazid (la) and his father (la) in 12 caliphs. You only named me 5-7 names. what about others? Are they coming soon?

Well you said umar bin Abdul aziz can't be our caliph because he made a mistake and I was just making a point that you can be righteous even if you make a mistake. Yea you're right infallible is not part of this thread so we'll leave that out.

Which caliphs were not from QURAISH??

Maybe the others are to come maybe they been except for imam mahdi.

I don't know where you're heading with this but we'll see as the thread progresses inshallah.

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Their greatest scholars wrote in their books that they do not know any meaning to that hadith , of course since the thaqalyin hadith and the ghadir hadiths and imam mahdi hadiths are all insignificant then it is not a surprise to find them clueless regarding this hadith.

 

 

قال المهلب : لم ألق أحدا يقطع في هذا الحديث يعني بشيء معين ,وقال ابن الجوزي : قد أطلت البحث عن معنى هذا الحديث وتطلبت مظانه وسألت عنه فلم أقع على المقصود به لأن الفاظه مختلفة ولا أشك أن التخليط فيها من الرواة ثم وقع لي فيه شيء وجدت الخطاب بعد ذلك قد أشار إليه وذكر كلاما ,قال القاضي عياض رحمه الله توجه على هذا العدد سؤالان, يعني هنا

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Their greatest scholars wrote in their books that they do not know any meaning to that hadith , of course since the thaqalyin hadith and the ghadir hadiths and imam mahdi hadiths are all insignificant then it is not a surprise to find them clueless regarding this hadith.

قال المهلب : لم ألق أحدا يقطع في هذا الحديث يعني بشيء معين ,وقال ابن الجوزي : قد أطلت البحث عن معنى هذا الحديث وتطلبت مظانه وسألت عنه فلم أقع على المقصود به لأن الفاظه مختلفة ولا أشك أن التخليط فيها من الرواة ثم وقع لي فيه شيء وجدت الخطاب بعد ذلك قد أشار إليه وذكر كلاما ,قال القاضي عياض رحمه الله توجه على هذا العدد سؤالان, يعني هنا

Hadith hadith hadith, why straight to hadith for Imamate??

Beat this challenge and il hold my hands up.

Surah 3:7

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] PRECISE - they are the FOUNDATION of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

Now can you find the PRECISE verse in the quran talking about imams coming after prophet Muhammad (pbuh) since Imamate is foundation of islam according to shia.

Before you accuse me of being a quranist...... IM NOT.

Before you can call something usul ad din (foundation) you have to bring 1 precise verse. Quran first then hadith and not vice versa

Edited by Just the truth

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Hadith hadith hadith, why straight to hadith for Imamate??

Beat this challenge and il hold my hands up.

Surah 3:7

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] PRECISE - they are the FOUNDATION of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

Now can you find the PRECISE verse in the quran talking about imams coming after prophet Muhammad (pbuh) since Imamate is foundation of islam according to shia.

Before you accuse me of being a quranist...... IM NOT.

Before you can call something usul ad din (foundation) you have to bring 1 precise verse. Quran first then hadith and not vice versa

 

Here you go. If you are truly seeking the answer, this should make some sense to you. If you are merely trying to defame our school of thought, you will avail nothing:

 

 

IMAMAT - THE ESOTERIC DIMENSION

 

     The verses of the Qur'an which clearly speak about the concept of IMAMAT were discussed in the last message. In this text we will discuss the implied meaning of this concept in various Qur'anic verses.

     According to the sayings of the Imams, nearly one-quarter of the Qur'an speaks about the Imams either explicitly, or implicitly. The basis of the esoteric dimension is taken from the following verse:

     He is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive (muhkam),  they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical (mutashabih); then as for those  in whose hearts there is perversity, they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead, and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation, but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding. (Q.3:7)   

     This verse can be understood in two different ways. It is quite clear that there are two kinds of verses in the Qur'an, one are  the MUHKAM, those which are clear in meaning and all can understand the commandments contained therein. The other are MUTASHABIH, their meaning are in the form of a metaphor, therefore, they have to be explained further. 

     The next clause in the verse is : those who know the meanings this second kind of verse is Allah, and the ones firmly rooted in knowledge. But, the statement actually continues.

        The great majority of Sunni scholars insist that there is a full stop after the word Allah, in other words the word 'and' is not a conjunction, instead it is there to start a new sentence.

        That will give it the meaning that Allah alone knows the meaning of those verses. Some others have said that that is not so. Among them is Zamakhshari, the author of the great Tafseer known as KASH-SHAAF. Zamakhshari reasons that it would really be illogical to give a book to people in which there are parts which no one can understand. Allah might as well have held those verses back.

     The Shi'a scholars (and some Sunni, mainly the Shafi'i) read the verse meaning that Allah and those firmly rooted in knowledge know the real meanings of the MUTASHABIH.

        Those firmly rooted in knowledge, according to the Shi'a belief,  are the Imams after the Prophet (may our salams and Allah's peace be unto them all).

     In fact, the Shi'a Mufassir does not explain any verse of the Qur'an, be it MUHKAM or MUTASHABIH, without referring to the statements of the Imams. According to FIQH JA'FARI, it is a sin to do TAFSEER BIR RA'I. We quote one hadeeth in support of this from Tabataba'i:

The Prophet said: "Whoever interprets (i.e., explains) the Qur'an according to his opinion, should settle himself in his seat of Fire." (as-Safi) 

- Quoted from Al-Meezan Vol 5. p 110.

The same book (Munyatu 'l-murid) narrates that the Prophet said:'Whoever spoke about  the Qur'an of his own opinion (even if) he was right, he committed wrong." Al-Meezan, Vol 5, p111.

     Tabataba'i adds that this hadeeth also appears in Abu Dawood, Tirmidhi and Nasa'i.

     In fact he best discussion on this Qur'anic verse has been done by Allama Tabataba'i in his celebrated work known as AL-MEEZAN. Tabataba'i has taken 102 pages to complete his discussion on this topic. Obviously, we do not have the space to reproduce all that here.

     Now that we have established that there are verses in the Qur'an which require special explanation by people who are established in knowledge and that those people are none other than the members of the holy Ahl al-Bayt, we now give below some examples of those verses. These verses were explained by the Imams and they are pointing to the concept of Imamat in a metaphorical sense.

1.   Nay! these are clear communications in the breasts of those who are granted  knowledge; and none deny Our communications (ayaat) except the unjust. (Q.29:49)

The theme is repeated in 10:7 and 22:57. The Imams are the Signs of Allah (Ayat Allah) on this earth.

2.   Keep us on the right Path (Siraat al-Mustaqeem) (Q.1:6).

Imams are the Sirat al-Mustaqeem.   The theme is repeated in 6:153, 15:41, 20:135, and 43:43.

3.   The Imams are the WAY (Sabeel), the theme is found in Q.25:9, 27; 6:153, 29:69, and in 31:15.

4.   Imams are THE BOUNTY OF GOD (N'emat Allah), as in Q.14:28,  and 16:83.

5.   Imams are the GIFTS OF Allah (ALAA'I), as in Q. 7:69 and in 55:13 and many more times in this Sura.

6.   Imams are the FIRMEST HANDLE (Urwat al-Wuthqa) as in Q.2:256.

7.   Imams are the ROPES OF Allah (Habl Allah), as in Q.3:102.

8.   Therefore believe in Allah and His Apostle and the Light which We have revealed, and Allah is aware of what you do.(Q.64:9) 

The Imams are the Light of Allah. The theme is repeated in 4:174, 6:122, 7:157, 9:32, the most beautiful of all these verses is 24:35.

9.   Lo! We offered the Trust (AMANA) unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it. And man assumed it. Lo! He hath proved a tyrant and a fool. (Q.33:72).  The TRUST is the WALAYA of Imam Ali, and the tyrant fool are those who refused to acknowledge it and usurped his right.  

And again: 

     Lo! Allah commandeth you that you restore deposits (AMANA) to their owners, and if you judge between mankind that ye judge  justly. Lo! comely is  this which Allah admonisheth you. Lo! Allah is ever Hearer, Seer.(Q.4:58)   

The AMANA here implies the designation of an Imam by his predecessor.

10.  And of those whom We have created  are a people who guide  with the truth and thereby they do justice.(Q.7:181)  THE GUIDES mentioned in this verse are no one but the Imams.    

11.  And those who disbelieve say: You are not a messenger. Say: Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you and whoever has the knowledge of the Book.(Q.13:43) 

The ONE WHO HAS THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE BOOK is the Imam. The theme of this special knowledge is repeated in 16:27, 29:49, and 34:6.

12.  Imams are the INHERITORS OF THE BOOK, as in Q.35:32

13.  Imams are the POSSESSORS OF AUTHORITY  (ULIL AMR), as in Q.4:59;

therefore, obeying them becomes wajib.

14.  O you who believe! Be careful of (your duty to) Allah and be with the true ones(SAADIQEEN). Q.9:119.  The Imams are the Saadiqeen.

15.  And We did not send before you any but men to whom We sent Revelation -- so ask the followers of the Reminder  (AHL ADH DHIKR) if you do not know.(Q.16:43) The term is repeated in the following verse. The Imams are the Ahl adh Dhikr.

16.  ........... Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it  but love for my near relatives(QURBA)................ (Q.42:23).  The QURBA here are the Imams. Such respected Sunni scholars as Baydhawi and Fakhr Razi agree on this and they say that 'Qurba' here refers to Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husayn. 

17.  The term Aal Yaseen in 37:130 is no one but the Imams, YASEEN is the Prophet of Islam.

18.  I swear by the sun and its brilliance.

     And the moon when it follows the sun,

     And the day when it shows it,

     And the night when it draws a veil over it, (Q.91:1-4)

     The sun is the Prophet of Islam, the moon is Imam Ali and the day represents all the other Imams (in some tafseer it is Imam Mahdi specifically), and the night symbolizes the instruments by which the Imams' authority was usurped by others.

19.  He has made the two seas to flow freely (so that) they meet together:

     Between them is a barrier which they cannot pass,

     Which then of the bounties of your Lord will you deny?

     There come forth from them pearls, both large and small, (Q.55:19-22)

     The two seas are Ali and Fatima, the barrier (in some tafseer) is the Prophet of Islam, and the pearls are Hasan and Husayn. Among the Sunni scholars who agree with this tafseer is Suyooti in his Dur al-Manthoor quoting Ibn Mardwayh.

20.  And whoever takes Allah and His Apostle and those who believe for a guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they  that shall be triumphant.(Q.5:56) Imams are the PARTY OF Allah.

21.  And the servants of the Beneficent  God are they who walk on the earth  in

humbleness, and when the ignorant address them, they say: Peace. (Q.25:63) THe SERVANTS OF THE BENEFICENT (IBAAD AR-RAHMAAN) are the Imams. It truly describes the characters of the Imams, how they reacted to their aggressive enemies all their lives.

             Thank you for reading.

sincerely,

Syed-Mohsin Naquvi

Edited by BuggyLemon

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Here you go. If you are truly seeking the answer, this should make some sense to you. If you are merely trying to defame our school of thought, you will avail nothing:

Yea that's all good but you missed one vital point.

It says in that verse that the FOUNDATION are in PRECISE verses so since you haven't bought that PRECISE verse you failed the challenge

For the record I'm not trying to "defame" your sect.

Salams

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Yea that's all good but you missed one vital point.

It says in that verse that the FOUNDATION are in PRECISE verses so since you haven't bought that PRECISE verse you failed the challenge

For the record I'm not trying to "defame" your sect.

Salams

Did you even read it? The very meaning of the verse you quoted, 3:7 is in question because of a difference of opinion between Sunni and Shia interpretations. There is a "waw" in the verse where it says those who are firmly rooted in knowledge. They are the ones to follow. This very verse points to the fact that we must adhere to their interpretations of the ambiguous verses and the verse in question, 3:7, is a decisive verse in itself and therefore is proof for Imamate.

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Their greatest scholars wrote in their books that they do not know any meaning to that hadith , of course since the thaqalyin hadith and the ghadir hadiths and imam mahdi hadiths are all insignificant then it is not a surprise to find them clueless regarding this hadith.

 

 

قال المهلب : لم ألق أحدا يقطع في هذا الحديث يعني بشيء معين ,وقال ابن الجوزي : قد أطلت البحث عن معنى هذا الحديث وتطلبت مظانه وسألت عنه فلم أقع على المقصود به لأن الفاظه مختلفة ولا أشك أن التخليط فيها من الرواة ثم وقع لي فيه شيء وجدت الخطاب بعد ذلك قد أشار إليه وذكر كلاما ,قال القاضي عياض رحمه الله توجه على هذا العدد سؤالان, يعني هنا

 

Yes this is True. Sunni only have caliphs but they do not present any hadith for the names of their 12 Caliphs. Thus the names of their caliphs they do not have any authenticity.

4 rightly guided caliphs and some say imam hasan also imam mahdi the rest could have been anyone of the caliphs who passed as long as they were righteous, eg; umar bin Abdul aziz.

 

 

Brother, If you have any hadith for authenticity of 12 caliphs including those you name it, Just present it.

Edited by skamran110

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It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Salams

Alaykum Salam.

There is no Islamic state existing today for there to be a rightly guided caliph to rule over (thus fulfilling the prophecy) and events indicate that there will never be one until the Mehdi (ATF) appears, by which time it will be too late and there will be no ruler but him.

This leaves your hadith on questionable grounds. You now have two choices.

Either you name it a fabricated/weak hadith in which case your most authentic book's authenticity is questioned.

Or you accept the fact that there were no 12 guided caliphs after the Prophet (pbuh) except the 12 that must be the ones that 300,000,000 Muslims follow and believe in today because of various evidences from sources other than your authentic books. The descendants of Muhammad (pbuh) that were the greatest scholars of their times and were perfect in every way.

Edited by BuggyLemon

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the concept of 12 caliph mention in sunni hadith is much different thn the shia concept of 12 imam..

 

PROPHET(SAW) didnt name the 12 Caliph. one can't be certain tht who those 12 were..but there is an hadith which states tht mode of khilafat will be of first 30 yrs..  so according to this hadith, it includes the khilafat of Abubakr(ra), Umar(ra), Usman(ra), Ali(ra) and Hassan(ra). we also know the name of the last Caliph Imam Mahdi (Muhamad ibn Abdullah)..

 

if shia ppl claim tht 12 caliphs are their twelve Imams. may i ask a v simple question to thm,  was Islam strong during the time of their imams especially Hazrat Hussain RA?

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the concept of 12 caliph mention in sunni hadith is much different thn the shia concept of 12 imam..

PROPHET(SAW) didnt name the 12 Caliph. one can't be certain tht who those 12 were..but there is an hadith which states tht mode of khilafat will be of first 30 yrs.. so according to this hadith, it includes the khilafat of Abubakr(ra), Umar(ra), Usman(ra), Ali(ra) and Hassan(ra). we also know the name of the last Caliph Imam Mahdi (Muhamad ibn Abdullah)..

if shia ppl claim tht 12 caliphs are their twelve Imams. may i ask a v simple question to thm, was Islam strong during the time of their imams especially Hazrat Hussain RA?

Caliph here, (if your hadith was not altered and he actually did not say caliph but said "Imams" instead), are the leaders of the Ummah whether they were political leaders (they were supposed to be) or their rights were usurped, doesn't make them any less of leaders of the Ummah. Edited by BuggyLemon

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the concept of 12 caliph mention in sunni hadith is much different thn the shia concept of 12 imam..

 

PROPHET(SAW) didnt name the 12 Caliph. one can't be certain tht who those 12 were..but there is an hadith which states tht mode of khilafat will be of first 30 yrs..  so according to this hadith, it includes the khilafat of Abubakr(ra), Umar(ra), Usman(ra), Ali(ra) and Hassan(ra). we also know the name of the last Caliph Imam Mahdi (Muhamad ibn Abdullah)..

 

if shia ppl claim tht 12 caliphs are their twelve Imams. may i ask a v simple question to thm,  was Islam strong during the time of their imams especially Hazrat Hussain RA?

 

Stick to the topic, where is the 12 Caliphs?

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Did you even read it? The very meaning of the verse you quoted, 3:7 is in question because of a difference of opinion between Sunni and Shia interpretations. There is a "waw" in the verse where it says those who are firmly rooted in knowledge. They are the ones to follow. This very verse points to the fact that we must adhere to their interpretations of the ambiguous verses and the verse in question, 3:7, is a decisive verse in itself and therefore is proof for Imamate.

I am writing you a detailed reply and will post soon inshallah

Salams

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Here you go. If you are truly seeking the answer, this should make some sense to you. If you are merely trying to defame our school of thought, you will avail nothing:

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

Let me break your post down bit by bit.

YOU SAID

1. This verse can be understood in two different ways. It is quite clear that there are two kinds of verses in the Qur'an, one are the MUHKAM, those which are clear in meaning and all can understand the commandments contained therein. The other are MUTASHABIH, their meaning are in the form of a metaphor, therefore, they have to be explained further.

MY ANSWER.

So now imamat is usul ad din (foundation) so the first thing this verse says is;

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book

Imamate my brother fails this straight away. Since all the verses you pointed out fall in the unspecific category, when imate is the foundation.

2.

YOU SAID

The Shi'a scholars (and some Sunni, mainly the Shafi'i) read the verse meaning that Allah and those firmly rooted in knowledge know the real meanings of the MUTASHABIH.

MY ANSWER

I also hold this opinion.

3.

YOU SAID

Those firmly rooted in knowledge, according to the Shi'a belief, are the Imams after the Prophet (may our salams and Allah's peace be unto them all).

MY ANSWER

Exactly, according to the "shia belief" likewise other islamic sects could argue that there leaders are the ones firmly rooted in knowledge. Not just SUNNIS but ismaili Bohari zaydi ahle hadith and so on.

When Allah (swt) says "those firmly rooted in knowledge" This itself is unspecific because all islamic sects could claim that it is there leaders who are the " firmly rooted in knowledge".

The verses you pointed out are all "unspecific" so they cannot be the ones talking about the PRECISE verses of your FOUNDATION.

I will go through your verses and tell you how our ulama who we think are "those rooted in knowledge" interpretate these verses;

Verse no 1.

The signs are the verses of the quran.

2. Islam is the straight path

3. Prophet (pbuh) and all righteous slaves

4. Prophet (pbuh)

5. Could be any favours!! Quran, prophet (pbuh) even eye sight and etc

6. prophet (pbuh) and quran

7. The rope is quran and prophet (pbuh)

8. The light which is "revealed" is quran.

9. Prophets a.s

10. Righteous leaders

11. Anyone who understands the quran, from any sect.

12. Could be anyone read verse properly;

Then we caused to inherit the Book those We have chosen of Our servants; and among them is he who WRONGS HIMSELF, and among them is he who is moderate, and among them is he who is foremost in good deeds by permission of Allah . That [inheritance] is what is the great bounty.

I thought imams were infalliable

13. Join the thread ulil amr where me and AMEEN are currently debating this issue.

14. Noble companions

15. Noble companions

16. We are asked to love them no mention of them or there descendants being infalliable imams who must be followed. Just told to love them that's it.

17. What????? This is talking about prophet ilayas a.s start reading from verse 23

18. I'm not going to even bother with this one.

19. Now this is getting silly.. It's scientifically proven that two seas cannot meet. It's one of the scientific miracles of the quran which Muslims use to refute other religious books.

20. Actually this verse ONLY supports imam ali a.s and the word used is wali which can be interpreted in many ways. So it's unspecific because of the word wali used as it can be interpreted in many ways.

21. Could have been anyone who was humble.

Thank you for reading.

sincerely,

Just the truth.

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It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

Let me break your post down bit by bit.

YOU SAID

1. This verse can be understood in two different ways. It is quite clear that there are two kinds of verses in the Qur'an, one are the MUHKAM, those which are clear in meaning and all can understand the commandments contained therein. The other are MUTASHABIH, their meaning are in the form of a metaphor, therefore, they have to be explained further.

MY ANSWER.

So now imamat is usul ad din (foundation) so the first thing this verse says is;

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book

Imamate my brother fails this straight away. Since all the verses you pointed out fall in the unspecific category, when imate is the foundation.

2.

YOU SAID

The Shi'a scholars (and some Sunni, mainly the Shafi'i) read the verse meaning that Allah and those firmly rooted in knowledge know the real meanings of the MUTASHABIH.

MY ANSWER

I also hold this opinion.

3.

YOU SAID

Those firmly rooted in knowledge, according to the Shi'a belief, are the Imams after the Prophet (may our salams and Allah's peace be unto them all).

MY ANSWER

Exactly, according to the "shia belief" likewise other islamic sects could argue that there leaders are the ones firmly rooted in knowledge. Not just SUNNIS but ismaili Bohari zaydi ahle hadith and so on.

When Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì says "those firmly rooted in knowledge" This itself is unspecific because all islamic sects could claim that it is there leaders who are the " firmly rooted in knowledge".

The verses you pointed out are all "unspecific" so they cannot be the ones talking about the PRECISE verses of your FOUNDATION.

I will go through your verses and tell you how our ulama who we think are "those rooted in knowledge" interpretate these verses;

 

 

Verse no 1.

The signs are the verses of the quran.

2. Islam is the straight path

3. Prophet (pbuh) and all righteous slaves

4. Prophet (pbuh)

5. Could be any favours!! Quran, prophet (pbuh) even eye sight and etc

6. prophet (pbuh) and quran

7. The rope is quran and prophet (pbuh)

8. The light which is "revealed" is quran.

9. Prophets a.s

10. Righteous leaders

11. Anyone who understands the quran, from any sect.

12. Could be anyone read verse properly;

Then we caused to inherit the Book those We have chosen of Our servants; and among them is he who WRONGS HIMSELF, and among them is he who is moderate, and among them is he who is foremost in good deeds by permission of Allah . That [inheritance] is what is the great bounty.

I thought imams were infalliable

13. Join the thread ulil amr where me and AMEEN are currently debating this issue.

14. Noble companions

15. Noble companions

16. We are asked to love them no mention of them or there descendants being infalliable imams who must be followed. Just told to love them that's it.

17. What????? This is talking about prophet ilayas a.s start reading from verse 23

18. I'm not going to even bother with this one.

19. Now this is getting silly.. It's scientifically proven that two seas cannot meet. It's one of the scientific miracles of the quran which Muslims use to refute other religious books.

20. Actually this verse ONLY supports imam ali a.s and the word used is wali which can be interpreted in many ways. So it's unspecific because of the word wali used as it can be interpreted in many ways.

21. Could have been anyone who was humble.

 

So you're saying verses of the Quran can only have a single meaning? Verses of the Quran encompass enormous amounts of things. There is not only the apparent meaning, but the deeper meanings too. Suffice to say that your interpretations of the Mutashabih verses are different than ours because we believe that the Imams were those firmly rooted in knowledge while you believe otherwise. We can have a discussion about who was more knowledgeable and had more authority to elaborate upon the Mutashabih verses in another thread.

 

The only one I am concerned about in your response is #12. I will try to explain this through what I understand:

 

Then we caused to inherit the Book those We have chosen of Our servants; and among them is he who WRONGS HIMSELF, and among them is he who is moderate, and among them is he who is foremost in good deeds by permission of Allah . That [inheritance] is what is the great bounty.

 

Those who Allah has chosen is a certain group of people (Imams&Prophets) FROM the already existing group of his servants (us). And from among his servants is those who wrongs himself, etc.

 

I have colour coded the two groups of people for ease of reading.

 

By the way brother, have you read the Shia tafseer on this verse? It is VERY comprehensive and will Insh'Allah provide you all the answers you need about it:

 

http://www.shiasource.com/al-mizan/tafsir/3-7-9/

 

Best of luck to you.

Edited by BuggyLemon

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So you're saying verses of the Quran can only have a single meaning? Verses of the Quran encompass enormous amounts of things. There is not only the apparent meaning, but the deeper meanings too. Suffice to say that your interpretations of the Mutashabih verses are different than ours because we believe that the Imams were those firmly rooted in knowledge while you believe otherwise. We can have a discussion about who was more knowledgeable and had more authority to elaborate upon the Mutashabih verses in another thread.

The only one I am concerned about in your response is #12. I will try to explain this through what I understand:

Then we caused to inherit the Book those We have chosen of Our servants; and among them is he who WRONGS HIMSELF, and among them is he who is moderate, and among them is he who is foremost in good deeds by permission of Allah . That [inheritance] is what is the great bounty.

Those who Allah has chosen is a certain group of people (Imams&Prophets) FROM the already existing group of his servants (us). And from among his servants is those who wrongs himself, etc.

I have colour coded the two groups of people for ease of reading.

By the way brother, have you read the Shia tafseer on this verse? It is VERY comprehensive and will Insh'Allah provide you all the answers you need about it:

http://www.shiasource.com/al-mizan/tafsir/3-7-9/

Best of luck to you.

This is what I said at the start of my previous post. All the unspecific verses can have multiple meanings which can be interpreted by "those firmly rooted in knowledge, which by the way like I said in my previous post could be anyone from any sect claiming to his sect that he is the one "firmly rooted in knowledge".

When something is a fundamental belief of islam of the foundation it should be in a precise verse like the ayah says. Why would Allah (swt) put a fundamental belief of islam in an unspecific verse????

Now regarding the verse you put down:

Then we caused to inherit the Book those We have chosen of Our servants; and among them is he who wrongs himself, and among them is he who is moderate, and among them is he who is foremost in good deeds by permission of Allah . That [inheritance] is what is the great bounty.

When Allah (swt) says he has chosen it means the ones who he has guided which could be any Muslim. Any Muslim who he has chosen for hidayah. Have me, you and a billion Muslims not inherited the book??? Inheritance simply means something passed down to you. Are there not from us billion plus Muslims some who :

among them is he who wrongs himself, and among them is he who is moderate, and among them is he who is foremost in good deeds by permission of Allah

But then the verse finishes:

"That [inheritance] is what is the great bounty".

So no matter what type of Muslim you are "that inheritance is what is the great bounty".

Salams

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the concept of 12 caliph mention in sunni hadith is much different thn the shia concept of 12 imam..

 

PROPHET(SAW) didnt name the 12 Caliph. one can't be certain tht who those 12 were..but there is an hadith which states tht mode of khilafat will be of first 30 yrs..  so according to this hadith, it includes the khilafat of Abubakr(ra), Umar(ra), Usman(ra), Ali(ra) and Hassan(ra). we also know the name of the last Caliph Imam Mahdi (Muhamad ibn Abdullah)..

 

if shia ppl claim tht 12 caliphs are their twelve Imams. may i ask a v simple question to thm,  was Islam strong during the time of their imams especially Hazrat Hussain RA?

 

The following hadiths from Sahih Muslim make your assumption void:

 

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The affairs of people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by the Twelve men."

 

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #6

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4478

 

=========

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been Twelve Caliphs."

 

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #7

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4480

=========

 

Again:

 

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The Islamic religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having Twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraish."

 

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #10

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4483

 

If we assume the khilafat for 30 years then certainly Imam Mahdi cannot be included in those 12 caliphs which contradicts your own statement.

 

Allah swt has perfected the religion then saying that Prophet did not declare the names of 12 Caliphs becomes a blame on the prophethood.

 

If Sihah Sitta do no have hadith mentioning the names of 12 caliphs then certanly it is their weakness. In case of non-avaiblity of such hadith the caliphs you name or follow are not considered authentic. 

 

Regards

Edited by skamran110

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If we assume the khilafat for 30 years then certainly Imam Mahdi cannot be included in those 12 caliphs which contradicts your own statement.

 

Allah swt has perfected the religion then saying that Prophet did not declare the names of 12 Caliphs becomes a blame on the prophethood.

 

If Sihah Sitta do no have hadith mentioning the names of 12 caliphs then certanly it is their weakness. In case of non-avaiblity of such hadith the caliphs you name or follow are not considered authentic. 

 

Regards

it doesnt contradict as both hadith r different

 

there isnt any weakness in hadith nd it is unfair to demand frm us to say for certainty who the 12 Caliphs are, as i earlier said tht we cannot possibly know for certain who the 12 are, as this would be speaking about the Unseen without knowledge from Allah. because there is another Hadith,tht Prophet (SAWW) has stated tht a mujaddid would appear after every century; if we ask the scholars to name who were all the mujaddideen of the Ummah throughout the centuries, we find that they will not be able to name them.. In fact, there is no way that anybody can know for certain even a single of these mujaddideen, namely because to say something like that with absolute certainty would be speaking about the Unseen without knowledge from Allah, which is considered a sin.

 

Allah warns in the Quran:

 

“Say: The things that my Lord has indeed forbidden are…saying things about Allah of which you have no knowledge.”

(Quran, 7:33)

 

so We have only been given the knowledge that there will be 12 Caliphs but we cannot say for certainty who they are, as Allah says:

 

“You have been given but little knowledge.” (Quran, 17:85)

 

so we can only therefore guess at who the 12 Caliphs are, though Various scholars have furthered their own guesses as to who the twelve Caliphs are, but these guesses cannot be taken with absolute certainty. the best guess is that the twelve Caliphs refers to al-Khulafaa al-Rashidoon (the Rightly Guided Caliphs). There is Ijma (consensus) on the fact that the first four Caliphs were Rightly Guided Caliphs and the term is most often used for them. However, in addition to these four, we say that Ali’s son, Hasan (RA), was one of the Rightly Guided Caliphs. The Prophet (SAWW) said:

 

“The Caliphate of Prophecy will last thirty years; then Allah will give the rule of His Kingdom to whomever He wills.”

(Sunan Abu Dawood)

 

AFAIK There is not any authentic shia hadith where the 12 Imams are mentioned by their name, if there is, plz bring it here

Edited by shikran

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The following hadiths from Sahih Muslim make your assumption void:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The affairs of people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by the Twelve men."

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #6

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4478

=========

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been Twelve Caliphs."

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #7

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4480

=========

Again:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The Islamic religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having Twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraish."

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #10

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4483

If we assume the khilafat for 30 years then certainly Imam Mahdi cannot be included in those 12 caliphs which contradicts your own statement.

Allah swt has perfected the religion then saying that Prophet did not declare the names of 12 Caliphs becomes a blame on the prophethood.

If Sihah Sitta do no have hadith mentioning the names of 12 caliphs then certanly it is their weakness. In case of non-avaiblity of such hadith the caliphs you name or follow are not considered authentic.

Regards

Bro caliphate is NOT an usul ad so it's not as important as tawhid, nubuwwah etc etc. we don't dwell to much on these hadiths.

Whereas imamat is an usul ad din so kindly point it out in quran.

Salams

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Bro caliphate is NOT an usul ad so it's not as important as tawhid, nubuwwah etc etc. we don't dwell to much on these hadiths.

Whereas imamat is an usul ad din so kindly point it out in quran.

Salams 

 

 

So we should not believe In prophet Abraham (as)? Since he was made an Imam for his people?

brother, I find it very strange, I doubt that you have read any of my responses, since what you said is illogical.

 

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So we should not believe In prophet Abraham (as)? Since he was made an Imam for his people?

brother, I find it very strange, I doubt that you have read any of my responses, since what you said is illogical.

What?? He was made leader. Imam caliph mean same thing. So would it be fair for me to turn around and say that our caliphs were in similar status to dawud a.s and Adam a.s?? Since these to prophets are described as caliphs??

Allah ( swt) uses the words imam and caliph to describe leadership. Just like firawn is described as an imam. It just means leader, ask any Arabic speaking person.

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What?? He was made leader. Imam caliph mean same thing. So would it be fair for me to turn around and say that our caliphs were in similar status to dawud a.s and Adam a.s?? Since these to prophets are described as caliphs??

Allah ( swt) uses the words imam and caliph to describe leadership. Just like firawn is described as an imam. It just means leader, ask any Arabic speaking person.

Tell me, what is the exact number of times the word "Imam" is used in the Quran?

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Get to the point!!

Salams

(wasalam) .

 

You know what my point is :P. Stop playing dumb.

 

There are 12 Imams (AS).

 

Is there some fiery ball of refute you want to Super-Saiyan Smash at me? Go right ahead :D.

Edited by BuggyLemon

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(wasalam) .

You know what my point is :P. Stop playing dumb.

There are 12 Imams (AS).

Is there some fiery ball of refute you want to Super-Saiyan Smash at me? Go right ahead :D.

Like I didn't see that one coming.. Lol

So you believe Allah (swt) told us the fundamental belief in a hidden code?? Ever read surah 3:7

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Bro caliphate is NOT an usul ad so it's not as important as tawhid, nubuwwah etc etc. we don't dwell to much on these hadiths.

Whereas imamat is an usul ad din so kindly point it out in quran.

Salams

therefore You do not believe in the prophet Abraham (as)? or Yusuf (as)?

Since they where given the position of Imamah and Wilaya after they were prophets.

Again you seem to state things with no proof at all. 

The duties bestowed on Prophets are set out in the Qur’an. Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì states in Surah Baqarah whilst telling the story of Adam (as)

002.038 [YUSUFALI]:

 

We said: “…,there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

 

Guidance comes via two sources, the Book and that individual that recites / presents it, in other words the sources are the Qur’an and the Prophet (s). The normal precedent of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is to send his Hadi (Guide) first and his Book second, as is clear from Surah Sajdah verse 23-24:

 

And certainly We gave the Book to Musa, so be not in doubt concerning the receiving of it, and We made it a guide for the children of Israel.

And We made of them Imams to guide by Our command when they were patient, and they were certain of Our communications.

 

Guidance for the Israelites came via three chains:

  • Prophet Musa (as)
  • The Book of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì
  • Imams to guide the Ummah

If the Book of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is sufficient as guidance, then why did Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì also appoint Imams as a source of guidance. Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì had appointed a group of individual from amongst the Ummah of Musa (as) as Imams for the nation. This is made perfectly clear in Surah Araf verse 159:

 

 

Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth.

 

 

Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì states in his Glorious Book the similarities between Muhammad (s) and Musa (as):

073.015 [YUSUFALI]:

We have sent to you, (O men!) a messenger, to be a witness concerning you, even as We sent a messenger to Pharaoh.

 

Along the same lines we read in Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 9.422

 

Narrated Abu Sa’id al-Khudri:

The Prophet said, “You will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so much so that even if they entered a hole of a mastigure (lizard), you would follow them.” We said, “O Allah’s Apostle! (Do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?” He said, “Whom else?”

 

As the above tradition in Sahih al-Bukhari confirms, the Prophet stated that the history of the Children of Israel will be repeated for Muslims. In fact, Qur’an has mentioned the stories of the Children of Israel to give us a way to understand the true history of Islam itself. There are many striking similarities in this regard written in Quran including the similarities of the leaders and the similarities of the people.

 

This being the case now compare the special Ummah of Araf verse 159 to the special Ummah of Muhammad (s) set out in Surah Araf verse 181.

 

Of those We have created are people who direct (others) with truth. And dispense justice therewith.

 

 

When Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì makes a general statement in his Glorious Book, He (set) is making a specific reference to the Ummah of Muhammad (s). Now contemplate the similarities between Musa and Muhammad. Both Prophets were accompanied with a Book and Hadi Imams from their respective Ummahs.We will (inshallah) expand on this further when we address Afiki’s objections to the Shi’a usage of this verse.

The above two traditions of ‘Position’ and ‘Brotherhood’ are accepted by both the sects though a few Nasibis have tried to belie it. Therefore, there is no proof whatsoever regarding the holy Prophet (s.a.w) having referred to anyone else apart from Imam Ali (a.s) as his brother or as someone whose position to him was like that of Harun (a.s) to Musa (a.s)! The enemies have tried very hard to put a cover over this tradition but fortunately light could not be blocked from shining.

 

 

وَالَّذِي أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ هُوَ الْحَقُّ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بِعِبَادِهِ لَخَبِيرٌ بَصِيرٌ

 

[35:31] And that which We have revealed to you of the Book, that is the truth verifying that which is before it; most surely with respect to His servants Allah is Aware, Seeing.

 

ثُمَّ أَوْرَثْنَا الْكِتَابَ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَيْنَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا فَمِنْهُمْ ظَالِمٌ لِّنَفْسِهِ وَمِنْهُم مُّقْتَصِدٌ وَمِنْهُمْ سَابِقٌ بِالْخَيْرَاتِ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ هُوَ الْفَضْلُ الْكَبِيرُ

 

[35:32] Then We gave the Book for an inheritance to those whom from among Our servants; but of them is he who makes his soul to suffer a loss, and of them is he who takes a middle course, and of them is he who is foremost in deeds of goodness by Allah’s permission; this is the great excellence.

The word ‘Istefaa’ is that special word that has always introduced Allah’s chosen guides to us.

 

إِنَّ اللّهَ اصْطَفَى آدَمَ وَنُوحًا وَآلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَآلَ عِمْرَانَ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ

 

[3:33] Surely Allah chose Adam and Nuh and the descendants of Ibrahim and the descendants of Imran above the nations.

 

 

The status of Istefaa is the very status that portrays the great qualities of the holy Prophet (s.a.w), which is the reason why his holy name is followed by the title ‘Mustafa’. This word manifests Allah’s (s.w.t) special selection. With this very word, Allah (s.w.t) has introduced those personalities to us who from the Ummah of Muhammad (s.a.w), He has specially selected and made them the heirs of the Qur’an. (Refer to tradition of Thaqalayn).

The prophets and apostles enjoy the peak of faith and wisdom as they are the leaders of mankind. Transmitting the same leadership onto another person from the people is known as ‘Wisayah’ or ‘khilafah’ and ‘Succession’ or ‘Imamah ’. After a prophet or an apostle and a leader of a nation, his son is preferred by God for succession as is mentioned in the Qur’an:

 

وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَاتَّبَعَتْهُمْ ذُرِّيَّتُهُم بِإِيمَانٍ أَلْحَقْنَا بِهِمْ ذُرِّيَّتَهُمْ وَمَا أَلَتْنَاهُم مِّنْ عَمَلِهِم مِّن شَيْءٍ كُلُّ امْرِئٍ بِمَا كَسَبَ رَهِينٌ

 

[52:21] And (as for) those who believe and their offspring follow them in faith, We will unite with them their offspring and We will not diminish to them aught of their work; every man is responsible for what he shall have wrought.

 

For example, in another place it is mentioned:

وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا نُوحًا وَإِبْرَاهِيمَ وَجَعَلْنَا فِي ذُرِّيَّتِهِمَا النُّبُوَّةَ وَالْكِتَابَ فَمِنْهُم مُّهْتَدٍ وَكَثِيرٌ مِّنْهُمْ فَاسِقُونَ

 

[57:26] And certainly We sent Nuh and Ibrahim and We gave to their offspring the (gift of) prophecy ( Nubuwwah ) and the Book; so there are among them those who go aright, and most of them are transgressors.

 

Now it has become obvious that after Nuh (a.s) and Ibrahim (a.s), their children were nominated for succession with the prestige of prophecy (Nubuwwah). Now that prophecy (Nubuwwah) has terminated, the book has definitely remained and Allah (s.w.t) has introduced its heirs to us in the verse:

 

أَوْرَثْنَا الْكِتَابَ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَيْنَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا

Therefore, one has to admit that the right of succession to the holy prophet (s.a.w) belongs to his offspring only and not to a stranger.

 

يَوْمَ نَدْعُو كُلَّ أُنَاسٍ بِإِمَامِهِم

[17:71] (Remember) the day when We will call every people with their Imam;

 

The above verse clearly necessitates the existence of an Imam in every period, every generation and every age. Referring to certain personalities, Allah has mentioned the following in the Qur’an which shows who the Imams who would have their people called with are:

 

وَكَذَلِكَ جَعَلْنَاكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطًا لِّتَكُونُواْ شُهَدَاء عَلَى النَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الْقِبْلَةَ الَّتِي كُنتَ عَلَيْهَا إِلاَّ لِنَعْلَمَ مَن يَتَّبِعُ الرَّسُولَ مِمَّن يَنقَلِبُ عَلَى عَقِبَيْهِ وَإِن كَانَتْ لَكَبِيرَةً إِلاَّ عَلَى الَّذِينَ هَدَى اللّهُ وَمَا كَانَ اللّهُ لِيُضِيعَ إِيمَانَكُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ بِالنَّاسِ لَرَؤُوفٌ رَّحِيمٌ

[2:143] And thus We have made you a medium (just) nation that you may be the bearers of witness to the people and (that) the Apostle may be a bearer of witness to you; and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Apostle from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people.

 

 

So we realise that these personalities who would be called with their people are those who are under the holy Prophet (s.a.w) and who are the governors and guardians of all people. And only these can be called ‘Imams’. Every generation has been instructed to follow these very personalities. (‘O you who believe, guard yourselves against evil with full awareness of divine laws and be with the truthful’) with this we come to understand that such entity remains in every generation who in the real sense of truth both in words and actions is an infallible.

 

ِ إِنَّمَا أَنتَ مُنذِرٌ وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ

[13:7]You are only a Warner and (there is) a guide for every people.

This shows that for every generation of human beings, the existence of a true guide is a sure thing.

 

 

So who is the guide of our time? and who Was the guide on the time of prophet Muhammad (p.B.U.h) and after his death?

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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