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In the Name of God بسم الله

Prophet Muhammad Made No Mistake

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- معنى إن الله يهدي من يشاء ويضل من يشاء.

You cannot fathom anything I say; you look at surface meanings and neglect what is actually being said.

May Allah put you on the right path, there is no reason to argue with you.

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^^that's all you can say! nasty things, insults, being arrogant, without even using any proofs.

 

that's a new one: "You cannot fathom anything I say"

 

 

and of course as usual your posts just include rudeness, your own opinions, and zero proof. at the same time you come up with false statements such as claiming that prophets have names of Allah, and that the Quran is not clear and easy anymore. Any muslim will know that quran is clear till judgment day!

 

i wont even go into analyzing any of your mistakes further. you're the type who just spews insults at anybody who is right! 

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No one can share the meaning of an attribute it belongs to Allah and we depend on Allah for it. We get as example limited ability to move by the power of God. And anyone who worships a name worships something other than Allah. I believe In Wahdatul wajud and what I mentioned above is from a hadith were imam Ali (AS) said if someone says they share it or it belongs to the person they commit shirk well he said he would kill the person so we know what that meant. However when asked what to say he said say it belongs to Allah this is when he was asked about the power by which we sit and stand. The attributes of God manifest in limiting emanations through creation as everything depends on God and it belongs only to God. A name it self is limited the meaning of mercy we cannot imagine.

Edited by Maitham
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Al Salam Waalaykum,

Itinerary, you're still so young, you still have a lot to learn. Do not argue with someone who clearly understands more about the religion than you. Learn from him instead. All the insults you have insulted him only shows how ignorant you are. This is not the way of us the Shia. I hope these Sayings of Imam Ali (as) enlighten you to see clearer. May Allah guide you in the right path and make you grow into a true Momin.

In reply to some one who posed Imam Ali (as) a difficult question, Imam Ali (as) said : 'Ask in order to understand, and do not ask in order to find fault, for surely the ignorant man who wants to learn resembles a man of knowledge, and surely a man of knowledge who wants to be difficult resembles an ignorant man who wants to find fault. '

The Station of the men of Knowledge

The man of knowledge is the one who recognizes that what is known is very little compared to what is not known, and as a result he considers himself ignorant, and accordingly he increases his efforts to know more by going out in search of knowledge.

The Purity and the Nobility of Knowledge

Do not talk about knowledge with the foolish so that they deny you, nor with the ignorant so that they find you oppressive, but talk about it with those of its people whom you meet who will accept it and understand it.

Knowledge and Acting on it

O you who carry knowledge around with you; are you only carrying it around with you ? For surely knowledge belongs to who ever knows and then acts accordingly, so that his

action corresponds to his knowledge. There will be a people who will carry knowledge around with them, but it will not pass beyond their shoulders. Their inner most thoughts will contradict what they display in public, and their actions will contradict what they know.

The purity and nobility of knowledge

When a dead person is placed in his grave, four kinds of fire will cover him, but then the prayer will come and put one of them out, and the fast will come and put another one of them out, and then charity will come and put another one out, and knowledge will come and put the forth one out, and it will say : 'If I had come sooner, I would a have put all of them out, and given you delight for I am with you now, and you'll not see anything else distressing.

Fi Amman Illah

Edited by Raniaa
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No one can share the meaning of an attribute it belongs to Allah and we depend on Allah for it. We get as example limited ability to move by the power of God. And anyone who worships a name worships something other than Allah. I believe In Wahdatul wajud and what I mentioned above is from a hadith were imam Ali (as) said if someone says they share it or it belongs to the person they commit shirk well he said he would kill the person so we know what that meant. However when asked what to say he said say it belongs to Allah this is when he was asked about the power by which we sit and stand. The attributes of God manifest in limiting emanations through creation as everything depends on God and it belongs only to God. A name it self is limited the meaning of mercy we cannot imagine.

 

Does it apply to prophets? I am wondering because surely, the Imam (as) would have directed this to the Arabs that were arrogant about their existence and such but if I am wrong please enlighten me. I did not say anyone has the attributes except that prophet Jesus (as) raised the dead and I did not mean it was of his own power because it was clearly given to him (as) by the power of Allah (s.w.t). Imam Ali (as) could have also meant that anyone who uses it with "Al" is committing shirk, which would be understandable because if anyone has said "I am Al-Muhyee" then he is implying that he is Allah (s.w.t) which is shirk since "Al" belongs to Allah (s.w.t) alone. Therefore the name could make a much bigger difference. Prophet Jesus (as) raised the dead by the power of Allah (s.w.t). I do not remember how attributes came into the discussion, I might have to read the thread again which is very hurtful because much of what has been posted in it is showing zulm to the Prophet and ahlulbayt by individuals saying "They are fallible".

 

 

 

Al Salam Waalaykum,

Itinerary, you're still so young, you still have a lot to learn. Do not argue with someone who clearly understands more about the religion than you. Learn from him instead. All the insults you have insulted him only shows how ignorant you are. This is not the way of us the Shia. I hope these Sayings of Imam Ali (as) enlighten you to see clearer. May Allah guide you in the right path and make you grow into a true Momin.

 

Age does not matter. Imam Al-Hadi (as) became an Imam at such a young age, surely he (as) is an Imam and his knowledge comes from Allah (s.w.t) but it still proves that age is merely a number. And I do not believe someone who reads the Qura'an on a superficial basis has any knowledge about the Qura'an. Clearly when saying "The Prophets are fallible".

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What I am saying was conveyed in both Quran and ahadith in a certain way. What your talking about is amr let's forget about letters and look at what is behind them. The amr is the be and it is power of Allah he bestows it upon his prophets and imams. And the power to move for all creation is bestowed on everything all this belongs exclusive to God and we depend on God for it. It is not ours. This is a very high subject that I worry who is ready for these things. But our relation is created things are depending on God for everything and needy for him and there is no similar to God. Allah hafez and if anyone wishes to go more in depth to learn not to debate please pm me as I do not favor discussing things that may confuse people on the forum.

Edited by Maitham
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What I am saying was conveyed in both Quran and ahadith in a certain way. What your talking about is amr let's forget about letters and look at what is behind them. The amr is the be and it is power of Allah he bestows it upon his prophets and imams. And the power to move for all creation is bestowed on everything all this belongs exclusive to God and we depend on God for it. It is not ours. This is a very high subject that I worry who is ready for these things. But our relation is created things are depending on God for everything and needy for him and there is no similar to God. Allah hafez and if anyone wishes to go more in depth to learn not to debate please pm me as I do not favor discussing things that may confuse people on the forum.

Agreed on the fact that it is all Allah's powers. I never said the prophets or imam shared Allah's (s.w.t) power. However, what I explained was that Allah granted the attributes to them by his power and will, is this incorrect? I am merely asking you, not debating about this because if there is something wrong there is much to be read about the situation and perhaps istighfar but let us see. If you wish to do this over a PM then please do, however, I am wondering if you can be a bit more clear because in some parts I did not understand what you have said. I know this might be because of foreign language and translation problems.

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Agreed on the fact that it is all Allah's powers. I never said the prophets or imam shared Allah's (s.w.t) power. However, what I explained was that Allah granted the attributes to them by his power and will, is this incorrect? I am merely asking you, not debating about this because if there is something wrong there is much to be read about the situation and perhaps istighfar but let us see. If you wish to do this over a PM then please do, however, I am wondering if you can be a bit more clear because in some parts I did not understand what you have said. I know this might be because of foreign language and translation problems.

I would find it wrong to say they are an attribute of the nabi or imam rather what I would say is correct is that they are Allah's attribute manifesting by his power through his creation which depend on him for it. However if we say zayd is powerful we mean it in a limited sense which in detailed thought we see that power was not zayds to begin with and true power is much greater in completeness. and sorry brother I was saying to everyone reading not singling u out.
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^^that's all you can say! nasty things, insults, being arrogant, without even using any proofs.

that's a new one: "You cannot fathom anything I say"

and of course as usual your posts just include rudeness, your own opinions, and zero proof. at the same time you come up with false statements such as claiming that prophets have names of Allah, and that the Quran is not clear and easy anymore. Any muslim will know that quran is clear till judgment day!

i wont even go into analyzing any of your mistakes further. you're the type who just spews insults at anybody who is right!

salaam brother I want to open a official debate with you on if nabi Adam (as) sinned or not by using the tafseer mathuri method meaning ushering only quran. Hadith. Language. And history. As proofs I would like to open this on the thinkers forum and there we can agree on some rules and how we will approach this if your willing please pm me and I will start it then link you. InshaAllah

they = kafirun

I think he meant this is the decking direction that fallibility of prophets would end at.

they = kafirun

I think he meant this is the decking direction that fallibility of prophets would end at.
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salaam brother I want to open a official debate with you on if nabi Adam (as) sinned or not by using the tafseer mathuri method meaning ushering only quran. Hadith. Language. And history. As proofs I would like to open this on the thinkers forum and there we can agree on some rules and how we will approach this if your willing please pm me and I will start it then link you. InshaAllah

I think he meant this is the decking direction that fallibility of prophets would end at.

I think he meant this is the decking direction that fallibility of prophets would end at.

Yes, he is rejecting/kafir against Nabi Muhammad SAW's fallibility if he is not explaining his unclear sentence.

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Our prophet did some mistakes. The biggest mistake he did was not showing mercy to Jews of Banu Qurayza tribe. He executed hundrads of Jews in one day by beheading. I cant support this incident. Holy prophet was very hard on Jews and didnt forgive them while Allah said in Quran that o prophet you are sent as mercy to all living beings. Wish prophet didnt show his anti semitic behavior to Banu Qurayza.

Another mistake is marrying a 6 yr old child when he was 51. This is mistake because he is a prophet and he should have waited till the girl is adult enough to concieve a baby. He married such a little girl that its very disturbing to talk about the reasons behind his marriage with Ayesha (ra).

and another one is taking poll tax jijya without non muslims consent as a condition to practice their religion. He said only Jesus will abolish jizya in his second comming untill then the dhimmis have to pay jizya. This is a mistake. I understand Allah said to take Jizya and he knows best why he need Jizya from dhimmis but holy prophet could have made it less burden to dhimmis. It is not right to take Jizya to allow them practising their religion.

These are the most controversial facts regarding prophet and I hope someone will give explanation why prophet executed Jews, married a child and why he forced others to give jizya.

I cant support these three specific issues. I feel very disturbed by these three matters.

 

Salam it would not be worth saying Holy Prophet made mistake, because as we believe that Holy Prophet used to say and perform what he was commanded by Allah Almighty (SWT). Therefore, it was Will of Allah Almighty (SWT) for the things to happen in that way and Allah (SWT) can never be wrong in judging anything.

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Yes, he is rejecting/kafir against Nabi Muhammad SAW's fallibility if he is not explaining his unclear sentence.

fallibility

means he was sinful or made mistakes so yes I do get that the brother must believe in infallibility which is a good thing.

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fallibility

means he was sinful or made mistakes so yes I do get that the brother must believe in infallibility which is a good thing.

 

One major point, to the people who disbelieve in infallibility, forget is that if the Prophets (pbut) and Imams (as) were fallible then how do we know that some of their teachings today weren't a mistake? If people say that the they (pbut) can sin then they are able to make mistakes, meaning some of their teachings might be mistakes.

 

Logically speaking, if Allah (s.w.t) wants to send someone down to mankind to guide them, they have to LOOK like them but their morals and ethics and POWER must be directly from Allah (s.w.t). 

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One major point, to the people who disbelieve in infallibility, forget is that if the Prophets (pbut) and Imams (as) were fallible then how do we know that some of their teachings today weren't a mistake? If people say that the they (pbut) can sin then they are able to make mistakes, meaning some of their teachings might be mistakes.

 

Logically speaking, if Allah (s.w.t) wants to send someone down to mankind to guide them, they have to LOOK like them but their morals and ethics and POWER must be directly from Allah (s.w.t). 

Yes, it is the trap for them who do not believe Muhammad SAW's infallibility. Their basic argument must not base on/come from Nabi Muhammad SAW's teaching. Otherwise, they believe his infallibility except because of : a. stupidity b. ignorant/blind in knowledge c. hateness. May be others can add the cause.

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True brother on that major descending flaw that would be the result of the concepts proposition. Only thing I would polish up here is why do imams (as) not sin or do mistakes. Well they have the ability to do those things but they refuse to out of deep love for Allah and awareness of Allah.

One major point, to the people who disbelieve in infallibility, forget is that if the Prophets (pbut) and Imams (as) were fallible then how do we know that some of their teachings today weren't a mistake? If people say that the they (pbut) can sin then they are able to make mistakes, meaning some of their teachings might be mistakes.

Logically speaking, if Allah (s.w.t) wants to send someone down to mankind to guide them, they have to LOOK like them but their morals and ethics and POWER must be directly from Allah (s.w.t).

Edited by Maitham
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I thought the school in Islam teach me that there is two kind of mistake :

 

a. Mistake in tashawwur.

b. Mistake in tasdiq.

 

Infalibility is only not to do mistake in tasdiq, so he can do mistake in tashawwur.

 

Example of mistake in tashawwur is a mistake in understanding things, while mistake in tasdiq is mistake to do fujjur, or taking an evil way.

 That is my current knowledge, if somebody can explain this thing i would be glad to learn.

 

Because sometime i read some tradition/hadis about the ability of Imams explaining things. For example : Imam Ali as can explain the meaning of arabic alphabet/hija'iyah letter, the distance between sun and earth, Imam Jafar Sadiq as explaining the science foundation, Imam Ali Zainal Abidin as explaining the meaning of haq to everyexistence etc.

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Perhaps, the way, the process  to reach infalibility is in Al Qur'an. I would like to write a paragraph from the book :

 

"The Final Conclusion, Your Journey to Certainty" pg 91 2nd paragraph, by DR. Hatem Abu Shahba translated by one of Shiachat member into English (I am translating to my own language for personal and my community if community want to read).

 

Twelfth :

The message emphasized that we must be aware that Allah SWT knows everything inside of us. He knows all of our secrets and sees everything we do, even if the others do not know about it. So, He is well-informed about us in every moment and it is impossible to run or hide from Him. One cannot hide anything from Him, for there are two angels present with every person who are appointed to keep record of all his deeds in a  book. One of the angels records the good deeds while the other records the bad deeds. These two angels accompany the person at all times in every place. Furthermore, the religion urged the people to fear Allah SWT and to have piety and bashfulness from Him because He is Watchful over us and Aware of everything inside of us. The call for Taqwa (fear of God) is one of the essentials of the final religion which leads to prevention of sin before its occurence and cure of disease before it develops and spreads. The person should control himself when a negative though or evil idea merely crosses his mind. If the person feared Allah SWT and rejected these negative thoughts from the start, we would have prevented much of the evil that takes place in the world around us. Even if the person who committed a wrongdoing realized that Allah SWT is watching him, he will fear Him, repent to Him, and seek His forgiveness.

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Reading books (my recent post is from the book i remember "Tashawwurina" if i am not mistaken), internet, listening other people, unleashing/freeing/memerdekakan my soul to surrender to seek the truth.

Forgive me, the book i remember now entitled "Falsafatuna", by Baqr al Shadr.

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