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In the Name of God بسم الله

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salam wa aliakum,

 

i watched mukthar nama serial on youtube.

 

i couldnt understand some of his actions (as per the serial mukthar nama)

 

1st thing - is the serial authentic?

 

why did mukthar al thaqafi lie?

he claimed that ibn hanafeya gave him a verdict declaring jihad and that ibn hanafeya made him the leader of the uprising

why did he forge the seal of ibn hanafeya? and in his verdict it is inscribed as "mahdi"

did he believe that ibn hanafeya was the mahdi?

 

was his aim to secure power (reign over iraq) in disguise of "revenge for hossein a.s." ?

 

he took the help of abudullah ibn omer ibn al khattab to escape from prison twice.why did he do so?

 

in the serial they also show that the shiites respected the 2 caliphs. is it true that the hatred towards them came only much later in the shiite communities?

 

what is the opinion of scholars on him?

 

 

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salam wa aliakum,

 

i watched mukthar nama serial on youtube.

 

i couldnt understand some of his actions (as per the serial mukthar nama)

 

1st thing - is the serial authentic?

 

why did mukthar al thaqafi lie?

he claimed that ibn hanafeya gave him a verdict declaring jihad and that ibn hanafeya made him the leader of the uprising

why did he forge the seal of ibn hanafeya? and in his verdict it is inscribed as "mahdi"

did he believe that ibn hanafeya was the mahdi?

 

was his aim to secure power (reign over iraq) in disguise of "revenge for hossein a.s." ?

 

he took the help of abudullah ibn omer ibn al khattab to escape from prison twice.why did he do so?

 

in the serial they also show that the shiites respected the 2 caliphs. is it true that the hatred towards them came only much later in the shiite communities?

 

what is the opinion of scholars on him?

 

Waleykum Salaam,

 

Mukhtar Thaqafi believed that Muhammad bin Hanafiya was the Imam and the Mahdi. He also used to lie a lot on Ahle Bayt. 

 

 

 

in the serial they also show that the shiites respected the 2 caliphs. is it true that the hatred towards them came only much later in the shiite communities?

 

Back then Shiites were just a political group not a religious sect, they were supporters of Ali against Moawiyah. They didn't believe in the appointment of Ali in Ghadeer, they didn't believe in the concept of 12 Imams. These are later ideas.  However, later extreme groups appeared who claimed to be Shia of Ali and they had dangerous beliefs. They were also known as Rafidah.  

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Waleykum Salaam,

 

Mukhtar Thaqafi believed that Muhammad bin Hanafiya was the Imam and the Mahdi. He also used to lie a lot on Ahle Bayt. 

 

 

Back then Shiites were just a political group not a religious sect, they were supporters of Ali against Moawiyah. They didn't believe in the appointment of Ali in Ghadeer, they didn't believe in the concept of 12 Imams. These are later ideas.  However, later extreme groups appeared who claimed to be Shia of Ali and they had dangerous beliefs. They were also known as Rafidah.  

 

Dont make claims, unless you have evidence. I want evidence from our books, from what you just claimed. If you dont provide evidence, then your deemed a liar, or straight out ignorant.

Edited by PureEthics
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Dont make claims, unless you have evidence. I want evidence from our books, from what you just claimed. If you dont provide evidence, then your deemed a liar, or straight out ignorant.

 

From Shia blog:

 

http://www.revivingalislam.com/2012/01/al-mukhtar-al-thaqafi-liar.html

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Oh come on man, you know better than that! For me, Naders site is not credible. To me, I dont deem any of his articles acceptable. Nader is one guy, and I can do the same too. Watch, here is an article from Sheikh Zaid Alsalami who says the opposite.

 

http://www.askthesheikh.com/mukhtar-al-thaqafis-revolution-whether-he-believed-muhamad-hanafiyah-was-the-imam/

http://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6572:the-uprising-of-mukhtar&catid=768&Itemid=1871

Please try again.

Edited by PureEthics
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Nope. No evidence.

He took Vengeance for Imam Hussain (as) after his Martyrdom.

shall I go deep?   

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Back then Shiites were just a political group not a religious sect, they were supporters of Ali against Moawiyah. They didn't believe in the appointment of Ali in Ghadeer, they didn't believe in the concept of 12 Imams. These are later ideas.  However, later extreme groups appeared who claimed to be Shia of Ali and they had dangerous beliefs. They were also known as Rafidah.  

 

Sheer deceit by usual Nasibi rhetoric. Though in a very very less number, but Shias (who 'believed' Ali to be most superior after prophet) were there right during the era of prophet and of course after his(s) death. We read in Tahdeeb al-Kamal, Volume 20 page 480:

 

روي عن سلمان وأبي ذر والمقداد وخباب وجابر وأبي سعيد الخدري وزيد بن أرقم رضي الله عنهم أن علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه أول من أسلم وفضله هؤلاء على غيره

 Salman, Abu Zarr, Miqdad, Khubab, Jabir, Abi Saeed Khudri and Zaid bin Arqam (may Allah be pleased with them all) have narrated that Ali is the first Muslim and all these people used to give seperiority to Ali over others.

 

We read in Tarikh Ibn Khaldun, Volume 2 page 17:

 أن جماعة من الصحابة كانوا يتشيعون لعلى ويرون استحقاقه على غيره

A group amongst the Sahaba were the Shias of Ali and they used to give preference to Ali over others.

 

Dr. Muhammad Hussain Dhahabi (d. 1977) the former teachter at he was teacher at Al-Azhar University who subsequently become the minister for ministry of Islamic affairs and endowments stated in his authority work Al-Tafsir wal Mufasaron, Volume 2 page 5:

 

“Nay there were among the Sahaba who loved Ali and believed that Ali is better than the other Sahaba and he is more deserving to be the Caliph such as Ammar bin Yasir, al-Miqdad bin al-Aswad, Abu Dhar, Salman al-Faresi, Jaber bin Abdullah and many others”

 

Abu Zuhra states in Al-Shafiye, page 93:

 

It should be kept in mind that it is not just Shias who believe Ali being greatest of all the Sahaba rather in past era, Sahaba also held this view such as Ammar bin Yasir, Miqdaad bin Aswad, Abu Zarr Ghaffari, Salman Farsi, Jabir bin Abdullah, Ubai bin Kkaab, Huzaifa, Buraida, Abu Ayub, Sahal bin Haneef, Uthman bin Haneef, Abu Hathem, Khuzaima bin Thabit, Abu Tufayl, Aamir bin Wathila, Abbas bin Abdul Mutalib, and their son and others from Bani Hashim; in the begining Zubair also held this view, but changed his opinion later; even in Bani Umayya there were people who held this view like Khalid bin Saeed bin Aas and Umar bin abdul Aziz.

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Sheer deceit by usual Nasibi rhetoric. Though in a very very less number, but Shias (who 'believed' Ali to be most superior after prophet) were there right during the era of prophet and of course after his(s) death. We read in Tahdeeb al-Kamal, Volume 20 page 480:

 

روي عن سلمان وأبي ذر والمقداد وخباب وجابر وأبي سعيد الخدري وزيد بن أرقم رضي الله عنهم أن علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه أول من أسلم وفضله هؤلاء على غيره

 Salman, Abu Zarr, Miqdad, Khubab, Jabir, Abi Saeed Khudri and Zaid bin Arqam (may Allah be pleased with them all) have narrated that Ali is the first Muslim and all these people used to give seperiority to Ali over others.

 

We read in Tarikh Ibn Khaldun, Volume 2 page 17:

 أن جماعة من الصحابة كانوا يتشيعون لعلى ويرون استحقاقه على غيره

A group amongst the Sahaba were the Shias of Ali and they used to give preference to Ali over others.

 

Dr. Muhammad Hussain Dhahabi (d. 1977) the former teachter at he was teacher at Al-Azhar University who subsequently become the minister for ministry of Islamic affairs and endowments stated in his authority work Al-Tafsir wal Mufasaron, Volume 2 page 5:

 

“Nay there were among the Sahaba who loved Ali and believed that Ali is better than the other Sahaba and he is more deserving to be the Caliph such as Ammar bin Yasir, al-Miqdad bin al-Aswad, Abu Dhar, Salman al-Faresi, Jaber bin Abdullah and many others”

 

Abu Zuhra states in Al-Shafiye, page 93:

 

It should be kept in mind that it is not just Shias who believe Ali being greatest of all the Sahaba rather in past era, Sahaba also held this view such as Ammar bin Yasir, Miqdaad bin Aswad, Abu Zarr Ghaffari, Salman Farsi, Jabir bin Abdullah, Ubai bin Kkaab, Huzaifa, Buraida, Abu Ayub, Sahal bin Haneef, Uthman bin Haneef, Abu Hathem, Khuzaima bin Thabit, Abu Tufayl, Aamir bin Wathila, Abbas bin Abdul Mutalib, and their son and others from Bani Hashim; in the begining Zubair also held this view, but changed his opinion later; even in Bani Umayya there were people who held this view like Khalid bin Saeed bin Aas and Umar bin abdul Aziz.

 

You didn't read what I wrote. I never talked about superiority. 

 

Anyways, the superiority of Abubakr and Umar over Ali is proven from narrations that have reached the level of Mutawatir. These are narrated by sons of Ali and close Shiites and companions of Ali. 

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You didn't read what I wrote. I never talked about superiority. 

 

Anyways, the superiority of Abubakr and Umar over Ali is proven from narrations that have reached the level of Mutawatir. These are narrated by sons of Ali and close Shiites and companions of Ali. 

 

Why are you lying?

Aby Bakr does not come close to Ali (s)?

How can you even dare to put his name next to his.

Please research before I post more Authentic Ahadith.

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Why are you lying?

Aby Bakr does not come close to Ali (s)?

How can you even dare to put his name next to his.

Please research before I post more Authentic Ahadith.

I don't think he is lying. He believes in his own books and it seems that he have come to this conclusion. Imagine such a person and how he praises personalities that in "reality" they were enemies of Alhlulbait (as). But because of his logic and way of thinking and believing that such a methods (to seek the truth) he follow is correct, now suddenly the enemies became good buddies with Ahlulbait and there were no such a thing as hatred or enmity in first place. 

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(salam)
(bismillah)

Oh come on man, you know better than that! For me, Naders site is not credible. To me, I dont deem any of his articles acceptable. Nader is one guy, and I can do the same too. Watch, here is an article from Sheikh Zaid Alsalami who says the opposite.

 

http://www.askthesheikh.com/mukhtar-al-thaqafis-revolution-whether-he-believed-muhamad-hanafiyah-was-the-imam/

http://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6572:the-uprising-of-mukhtar&catid=768&Itemid=1871

Please try again.

So, in my article, I bring out a hadith and break down the authenticity of the narration in depth, but Zayd al-Salami brings out other hadith and never breaks down the authenticity. Maybe he did not do so because he knew they were weak.

 

(salam)

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Aslamalaykum,

 

أبي جعفر الباقر عليه السلام أنه قال لا تسبوا المختار فإنه قتل قتلتنا و طلب بثارنا و زوج أراملنا و قسم فينا المال على العسرة

"Don’t say bad about Mukhtar as he has killed those who killed Us, took the revenge of Our blood, arranged marriages of Our widows and distributed wealth to the needy people among Us."

 

Imam Hussain a.s giving instructions to Hazrat Muslim bin Aqeel a.s

 

 'So when you enter it (Kufah) then stay with the most trustworthy of its inhabitants' (al-Futuh 5/36).

 

Take a wild guess who's house did Hazrat Muslim a.s stay in  :yaali: when He reached Kufa.

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You didn't read what I wrote. I never talked about superiority. 

 

Anyways, the superiority of Abubakr and Umar over Ali is proven from narrations that have reached the level of Mutawatir. These are narrated by sons of Ali and close Shiites and companions of Ali. 

Perhaps the  sahaba who believed Ali to be most superior after prophet should have actually taken lessons from you.

 

And as for your lies, you had mentioned that Shias were just a political party and yet I brought the names of, what you can call, 'Shia Sahaba' who held 'belief' that Ali was superior and (hence) deserved to be the first caliph.

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(bismillah)

Mutawaitr?

 

 

You think just because you claim something is tawatur that it proves anything? There are many conditions for something tawatur to be accepted....

 

 

In addition to that, the hadith he's trying to talk about is not really mutawatir. Many of the chains are mursal at the end and have people who are known for mistakes. Also, majority of the chains funnel into al-Sha`bi. They can claim he's super thiqa and his maraseel are sahih, but that only works when you are working in the confines of ones' own mathhab, not inter-sectarian discussion (like rijal is good at all, all of it is self serving). Also, I believe Ibn Abi al-Hadid called him a Nasibi somewhere.

 

في أمان الله

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I think he was a sincere lover of Ahle Bait, no doubt about it but he was not a perfect Shia as Salman, Abuzar, Malike Ashtar.

He did use some deceipts and diplomacy while dealing with the tricks of Ummayads and Ibne Zubair and thats why he was not held in high esteem by the later Imams...

The serial has shown his spiritual growth from a doubter in Imam Hasan's movement to a helper in Imam Husain's movement...His character in reality was a very complicated one as he used a lot of taqayya to overcome the enemies of Ahle Bait...Except his second wife nobody was aware of his plans and his strategy..

 

Most of the scholars have respect for him but they do not also compare him with the likes of Salman, Abuzar, Malike Ashtar etc..I personally dont think Allah will allow the revenge (although a temporary one) of Imam Husain to be taken by a person who was hungry for power...If he was power hungry he would have compromised with Ibne Zubair instead of fighting with him..he compromised with Ibne Zubair only for the revenge of Imam Husain..

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(bismillah)

 

Playing the rijal and isnad game, especially a salafized version of it foreign to our mathhab, isn't going to reveal any real truth to the matter on Mukhtar al-Thaqafi. Not to mention really ahistorical. There are two possibilities I consider to be more accurate, at this moment.

 

He was a Kaysani who loved Ahl al-Bayt [as] and wanted revenge for them so he sought out and killed those cursed people and brought them to justice here. The Imams [as] were pleased with this and were not hammering him due to his mathhab as the era of `Ali b. al-Husayn [as] was when the believers were very few and taqiyya was done towards even family members (al-Sajjad did not even teach his children aside from al-Baqir about the Imama). The Imam said to not insult Mukhtar (and yes that hadith is Sahih, Sadir b. Hukaym is thiqa).

 

 

 

Can you explain why you accept the narrations in praise of him but the reject the ones condemning him?

 

The other is that Mukhtar did taqiyya and/or repented from being a Kaysani.

 

الله أعلم بصواب الأمور

في أمان الله

 

 

And your evidence? 

Edited by Abul Hussain Hassani
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Assalam o Alaikum

after watching Mukhtar Nama i got high interest in Amir Mukhtar's personality.... thn on net on different blogs i hv read mixed views about him... ppl cal him kazab, hungry for power etc... thn i cum across a book Amir Mukhtar written by Syed Basharat Hussain Kamil Mirza puri.... he had tried his best to reveal the real Mukhtar e Saqafi .... secondly brother the person whu had done such a wonderful task hw can be he sum kazab or hungry for power.... u wil find the reply dat whu had written the letter n whu had given him the permission fir QAYAM... dear IMAM BAQIR A.S had stopped ppl to curse him.... if for once or twice aaima said bad about him it could be under taqiya cz hw can b it possible dat Father (IMAM SAJJAD A.S) is against him n the Son (IMAM MUHAMMAD BAQIR A.S AND IMAM JAFAR SADIQ A.S) is in his favour????

Allah j.j will never appoint a person who is a liar n who is not a lover of Ahl e Bait A.S to take revenge for Imam Hussain a.s....

plz do read that book u wil find it online easily....

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n if u had watched the entire muvi u could hav find dat whu had given him the permission for Qayam it was clearly said by janab e Mukhtar (may Allah be pleased with him)

research is gud bt where such a controversial personality is involved whose acts r wonderful bt believes r only between him n his Allah j.j thn i think we must not debate on them.... I believe n strongly believe if he had nt been in zindan he would b in karbala....

n still if u r doubtful about him jus with pure faith ask IMAM E WAQT IMAM E MAHDI AJTF to guide u... HE will surely show u the truth as HE has shown me n nw i strongly believe dat Amir Mukhtar (may Allah be pleased with him) is a true lover of IMAM ALI A.S AND AHL E BAIT E ATHAAR

i knw i hv nothing authentic in my posts bt my Heart is the one who is the only strong witness n who blindly believe in the gud deeds of Amir Mukhtar

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@Abul Hussain,

 

Did you ever entertain the fact that Ameer Mukhtar Thaqafi (ra) (a sahabi of Rasul Akram SAWA) having been cornered by: 

 

1) Ummavis and their Partisans;

2) Zubayrids and their Partisans; and

3) Other Shi'i factions

 

Could he ever be victimised? He literally fought all these factions. Are the above two factions 1 & 2 sincere by any standards?

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I don't see how the Imams stopping people from insulting him, or praising/condoning an action of his is proof for him being a great person till the end of his life (that is if you believe he was ever a great person).

 

I'm still undecided about Mukthar, he definitly isn't a role model for me at the moment, but I don't want to just believe the negative stuff about him without reaching certainty.

 

It's quite tricky visiting masjid al-Kufa with such confusion.

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I don't see how the Imams stopping people from insulting him, or praising/condoning an action of his is proof for him being a great person till the end of his life (that is if you believe he was ever a great person).

 

I'm still undecided about Mukthar, he definitly isn't a role model for me at the moment, but I don't want to just believe the negative stuff about him without reaching certainty.

 

It's quite tricky visiting masjid al-Kufa with such confusion.

Negative stuff?

can you please mention some with Reference from our books?

 

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You just need to do a simple search to find out that there are conflicting opinions on Mukthar. He was seen by some to be the head of the kaysannite sect. Even though I didn't watch the complete series filmed in Iran, they even show how he abandoned Imam Hasan (as) and latter repented for his deeds.  

 

For references, you can view Nader Zaveris blog post, which one of the members posted earlier - the very least you can take from it, even if you don't accept brother Nader as a 'reliable' source, is that there was evidently varying opinions on Mukthar and reports condemning him as well as praising his actions.  

 

Apart from that, my conversations with members of the Qum hawzah also made me further realise the differing views regarding Mukthar amongst the shias. Right now, like some of the scholars I spoke to, I have done tawaquf and not come to a final conclusion regarding the issue until I do further research.

 

That's beside the point though, if you had read every post on the thread you would have realised their is 'negative' views about him amongst some.

Edited by Al-Englisi
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You just need to do a simple search to find out that there are conflicting opinions on Mukthar. He was seen by some to be the head of the kaysannite sect. Even though I didn't watch the complete series filmed in Iran, they even show how he abandoned Imam Hasan (as) and latter repented for his deeds.  

 

For references, you can view Nader Zaveris blog post, which one of the members posted earlier - the very least you can take from it, even if you don't accept brother Nader as a 'reliable' source, is that there was evidently varying opinions on Mukthar and reports condemning him as well as praising his actions.  

 

Apart from that, my conversations with members of the Qum hawzah also made me further realise the differing views regarding Mukthar amongst the shias. Right now, like some of the scholars I spoke to, I have done tawaquf and not come to a final conclusion regarding the issue until I do further research.

 

That's beside the point though, if you had read every post on the thread you would have realised their is 'negative' views about him amongst some.

 

I doubt it my dear brother, but the sources we have are more great about him, then you trying to Degrade him. If you can provide me with the Proof, I will Analyze it, and give you a Response. Either than that, you cannot make  these Claims. You claim there are Negative claims, but The Majority does not think so, if course an Opinion is just an Opinion and not True Facts.

(salam)

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I made no claims in the post you quoted, I mentioned that their are negative things about them which I choose not to "believe...until I reach certainty about them [the issue]."

 

 

I wasn't mentioning my 'opinion'.

 

Have you read the link though? it quotes Firaq al-Shia by Nawbakthi.

 

Other than that, you can place your sword back in its sheath, because there were no claims made.

 

Read to learn, not to debate and try to proof your own view. I don't care for your response to be honest, I have people I trust that I can discuss the matter with, and I have enough proficiency in a few languages to be able to look at sources myself, thank you.

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I made no claims in the post you quoted, I mentioned that their are negative things about them which I choose not to "believe...until I reach certainty about them [the issue]."

 

 

I wasn't mentioning my 'opinion'.

 

Have you read the link though? it quotes Firaq al-Shia by Nawbakthi.

 

Other than that, you can place your sword back in its sheath, because there were no claims made.

 

Read to learn, not to debate and try to proof your own view. I don't care for your response to be honest, I have people I trust that I can discuss the matter with, and I have enough proficiency in a few languages to be able to look at sources myself, thank you.

 

 

Where is the Link please Provide me.

your opinion of course is Respected But I find it to be Invalid.

I would not Want you to care, On my Position as we are not Debating as you claimed so, we are Rather Arguing, There is a Big Difference.

I am Also Able to Do the same and Examine the Sources. And yes I read to Learn and Understand, So Judging Quickly.

Provide the link so We may Enter a Dialogue if you like.

If not, Just give me the sources and I will make a post on the issue.

(salam) 

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