Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Study - Atheists Are Smarter


Recommended Posts

  • Moderators

 

That is not dishonest nor is it faith, that is simply accepting the reality as you perceive it through logical deduction, on a mass consensus at that.

 

And it is not an lack of evidence either. 

 

Let say accepting the reality is an individual perceive trough logical deduction. How can you perceive  God non-existence from logical deduction? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Brother alayhisalam I have posted in this topic please find my post. It is faulty to rely on only what one can get from five senses especially since empirical science already has the premise of metaphysical concepts. One very basic argument is

1: if universe created by chance the probability for it being organized would be one in a million or more

2: if by chance then why has chance not repeated

3: the universe shows us that it is organized

4: chance cannot create except chaos organization is sign of a design

therefore there has to be an intellectual designer

 

I will look for it...

 

To respond to your bullet points... I consider it appropriate to respond that what we perceive as "organized" and "chaotic" is not evidence for a creator, it is evidence for what it is.

 

It sounds like the standard "watchmaker" argument for God's existence, which is that The Universe is orderly and complex, watches are orderly and complex, the Universe is like a watch, watches have a creator, the Universe must have a creator... But this argument has obviously been mentioned for a very long time and atheists have not yielded to it due to it having logical flaws... once again, logic and evidence based beliefs are the structure of the atheist worldview... not creative analogies or wishful thinking, not books with claims to deity, etc...

 

A shadow is evidence of the absence of light.

 

Ice is evidence of the absence of heat

 

Flu is evidence of the presence of a virus.

 

Intellect is evidence of the presence of life.

 

None of these aforementioned evidences are evidence for God... Evidence for God would be miracles, something against the laws of nature happening, being spoken to by God and told the winning lottery numbers accurately every day for a year... things like that happening would be evidences for God... Or finding an alternate Universe where we can see angels running around trying to hide from our telescopes... something obviously "Godly" in nature.... There is nothing in the observable Universe currently that alludes to the existence of God... A man flips a pancake and the face of Jesus appears on the pancake... that is a coincidence or a hoax, not a miracle from God...... Or do you want to be a Christian now? These are not evidences for God's existence.

 

Planets, species, everything you see today, is full of flaws, the ones that persist for any period of time is due to their being in the right place at the right time.  Our Earth just so happens to be in a position that life exists on it.  Billions of other planets that we observe without life just so happen to not be in such a position.

 

Creatures which evolved over time persisted due to evolutionary advantages they had over other creatures.  Just as humans today fight for money and food, the poor and desolate simply die and their offspring die... The humans with the better circumstances can continue producing offspring and dominate the globe.

 

I don't see any evidence for the existence of god when a baby is born with a faulty heart, or terminal illness of any kind, or down syndrome, etc... That is the work of genetics failing because life is not flawless and organized.

 

When an entire galaxy is consumed by a black star, that is chaotic and destructive, the Universe has many great beautiful qualities, but plenty of horrible destructive ones as well.

 

Whether the universe existed for eternity, or keeps popping in and out of existence like breathing, inhaling and exhaling... I do not know.

 

Maybe there are multiple universes, another theory.

 

We do not know for certain the exact origins or destination of our universe, but there are many theories which are scientifically deduced.

 

However, to fill these questions with "God did it" is not suitable, not scientifically accurate, not evidence based, and not going to answer these questions... It is a stagnate approach... 

 

With that said, if God really did do it, then science may yet discover God's existence.

 

And even if they do discover God's existence, there has not been any evidence that God is a personal God who cares about humans or answers prayers or causes homosexuals to turn into pigs, or causes hurricanes to destroy Asian cities...

 

This is a cold, dark, massive universe we live in... It is indeed spectacular, glorious, full of questions... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

And it is not an lack of evidence either. 

 

Let say accepting the reality is an individual perceive trough logical deduction. How can you perceive  God non-existence from logical deduction? 

 

"God exists"

 

Logical deduction requires that I ask, "Who or what is God?"

 

"God is the all-knowing, all-powerful deity that wants you to worship him and do what he commands or else you will go to hell."

 

So I look for this god, but he is no where to be found.  There is no evidence that prayers work, no evidence that any miracles have ever taken place, no evidence that God affects the world at all...

 

The logical deduction is simple, if you tell me I must worship God, then why not worship Zeus or any other god or mythical creature that there is no evidence for? The same reason that you don't worship Zeus is the same reason I don't worship Allah.

 

You believe in 1 more god than I do.  Yet we both disbelieve in thousands of other gods and mythical creatures... So we're not so different as you may think.  Zeus had a rich culture, history, books, priests, millions of believers... an entire civilization that worshiped him... and he is a mythical figure now... gave way to Christianity...

 

If God wants me to worship him, then just as I breathe oxygen through my lungs, I should have an innate natural bodily function which acts as a worship... but there is nothing of the sort, everything that I am and exist as has absolutely nothing to do with the worship of any deity.  I must get up and go work for food if I want to eat, I must go to the toilet if I don't want to make a mess of my natural waste disposal, and I must sleep when tired for my brain to function properly... These are all the pains of living as a creature that is dying.  There is no god feeding me or making me go to the toilet, I must do all of these things on my own.  No matter how much one believes or sits and prays, if one does not move, then nothing will happen.  If you want to call that movement god, then sure, go ahead, maybe everyone is god, god is everything, that is more believable than a separate entity existing outside of time and space choosing to answer some prayers like the woman who wants to hit the lottery she wins, but the other billion of people lose, and ignore the prayers of little girls being molested for years in basements.... but accept the prayer of someone in a desert who wants water, even though millions of other people who prayed for water did not receive water... it's all coincidences....

 

Even if there is a god, he has shown no evidence of wanting or needing to be worshiped or believed in... It is not a personal relationship required of me as far as I can tell.  If there is, he has done a terrible job of showing me.

 

For the purely Islamic belief structure...

 

So let's just say that I accept the Qur'an against all evidence, then what? I know nothing about Islamic fiqh, not even how to pray unless I go to the hadith... Once one goes to the Hadith they are flabbergasted by the contradictions and various accounts... Hundreds of sects, sects inside of sects.... 

 

Let's just say I pick one... What is the logical scientific reasoning that I should follow XYZ hadith but not ABC hadith...

 

Etc..

 

This is just a summarized notion of all of the chaos that is in Islam, but essentially, one deduces that there is no God because there are many religions and none of them make any sense or have any ground...

 

Even without religion, there is no evidence in the Universe for the existence of a personal, intelligent deity.

 

Even if there was such a deity, that deity has not made it clear what he would want from us, so we would live the atheist life anyways which is to use our own reasoning to come to conclusions.

 

Humans create laws and regulations in their governments based on what works, it is a process that has evolved over thousands of years...

 

Nobody is being told by god what is the best thing we should do.

 

If God exists purely to be worshiped and send all non-worshipers to hell, then what a miserable existence we have considering no two people can agree on what god wants.

 

Get Ayatollah Khamenei together with Ayatollah Sistani and you will not have two 100% agreement on what God wants.

 

This nitpicking and confusion exists because god either does not exist or has not made it clear what he wants, until then the logical deduction is that this is a mess no rational human wants to get involved in.

 

Either they would be forcing themselves to believe in something which most likely doesn't exist, or they would be assuming to follow what may or may not be what that god wants anyways.

 

Walking around the Ka'aba throwing rocks at Satan has no basis in science or the logical deductions of a rational human being.

 

I could be wrong of course, but this is logical deduction.  God did not make it clear to me.  And one should not have to make excuses for an all powerful, all knowing god... such a god would have been more than competent to place his own strong arguments for himself in his works, but there are no such arguments, rather philosophers and scholars of religion have tried their entire lives to invent new arguments for god... humans are working on god's behalf...

 

There is no successor, no imam... why not just say in the Qur'an that Ali is the Imam and after him 11 more? That is one sentence, no problem just include it and you save millions of lives from being lost due to violence over this argument. 

 

I could go on for a very long time about example after example, and surely you could refute them all based on your stance and stern belief.  But the fact of the matter is that these are all real problems, without real solutions, or else they would not be real problems for century after century.  

 

One would logically deduce that an omniscient being would have a better system in place, would not have to rely on hadith or scholars or abrogations... Would get it all right the first time, with Judaism... If Allah can protect the Qur'an then surely he could've protected it for the Jews, after all, Allah is all powerful.

 

Some Muslims even believe in Tahreef and then the Qur'an that is supposed to be a miracle is not even the true Qur'an anyways... so that even further complicates matters.

 

The list of roadblocks and logical fallacies is virtually endless, enough to step back and say whoa wait this can't be right, God are you serious? Well if you want to send me to hell for not wasting my time 80 years researching and not reaching a conclusion, rather than 80 years contributing to society and family and enjoying life peacefully....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Evidence for God would be miracles, something against the laws of nature happening, being spoken to by God and told the winning lottery numbers accurately every day for a year... things like that happening would be evidences for God... Or finding an alternate Universe where we can see angels running around trying to hide from our telescopes... something obviously "Godly" in nature.... There is nothing in the observable Universe currently that alludes to the existence of God... A man flips a pancake and the face of Jesus appears on the pancake... that is a coincidence or a hoax, not a miracle from God...... Or do you want to be a Christian now? These are not evidences for God's existence.

 

You have defined what God supposed to be. In my case our existence is good enough evidence of his existence. But yeah you right it would be nice to know the exact lottery numbers in every draw. But just in case it helps my experience says money is not everything, it does help though.

 

Maybe you have not read the Qur'an and how it asks the reader to observe and to think. But maybe I am wrong. Sure there is a threat of burning hell, but in the same time it also mentioned paradises. Every negative it mentioned there always a positive aspect along side it. It just the way the Qur'an is structured. To me it is a food for thought.

 

Here is an example for it asks the reader to think further:

 

And have you seen the water that you drink?

Is it you who brought it down from the clouds, or is it We who bring it down? (56 : 68,69)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Sorry that is absurd analogy. I did asked how you can Logical deductive God Non existence and you give me points of If X exist then must (this must is very dangerous thing because many fall in wrong conclusions) be A, B, C, D etc, because there is no current evidence of A, B, C,D  how in the word it is an  Logical deductive of God Non-existence or that it gives you validity of acceptation of God Non-existence

 

The whole thing does not work like that. There is no such a thing that certain information, truth etc (the whole concept of  Logical deductive) that God does not exist.
 

  1. P→Q
  2. ~Q
  3. Therefore we can conclude ~P.

    Problem is with the second premises. There is no proof for it.

For example The statement like "So I look for this god, but he is no where to be found." Here the problem is with second line, what proof you have that God cannot be found? Even in this statement you concluded an statement that is based on your subjective own experience and knowledge. It is an belief. Belief that hold such an conclusion as truth according your own conclusion. My whole point.
 

 

 

The list of roadblocks and logical fallacies is virtually endless, enough to step back and say whoa wait this can't be right, God are you serious? Well if you want to send me to hell for not wasting my time 80 years researching and not reaching a conclusion, rather than 80 years contributing to society and family and enjoying life peacefully....

Or that your judgement is based on lack of knowledge that creates your definitions of logical fallacies. 

Sorry now you turned way off. 

Edited by Dhulfikar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.therecord.com/news-story/2614406-local-theorist-unlocking-secrets-of-black-holes/

http://www.spacetelescope.org/science/black_holes/

There is scientific evidence and observation of proven theories such as black holes, but there is no scientific evidence and proof of any God existing and controlling the universe, souls, jinn, magic, all of that is purely faith based.

Faith is no longer faith if there is real observable evidence for it, then it becomes fact, and belief in facts is called accepting reality, which is not akin to faith which is hoping or believing in an alternate reality than the one we observe.

There is no hard evidence for the existence of black holes. We cannot observe them or test them. We only know they exist because the things around then behave in strange ways. Because of this we say black holes exist. The same is true for God. God is based on scientific conclusions just as black holes are.

SaintlyJinn23, well said.

1)

But is there evidence for the Islamic God, Allah, and the Qur'an being divinely inspired?

Yes there is... The miracles within it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You believe in 1 more god than I do.

Lol that absurd argument has been used so many times in athiest circles. It's funny how they think it will convince theists. Watch Hassanain Rajabali's debate with Dan Barker. He puts forth that same argument.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...
  • Veteran Member

“A little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God.” - Francis Bacon.

 

a quote from einstein on religion

 

'Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: it transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural & spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things as a meaningful unity' 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Atheists; critical thinking and tradition



In  a  debate  last  year  (2012)  with Rabbi Lord Sacks, Richard Dawkins was  asked  by  a  member  of  the audience if he brought his children up  in  “the  atheist  tradition.”  To  this, Dawkins  replied:  “There  is  no  atheist tradition.   The   atheist   tradition   is: ‘Think for yourself. Be critical’.’’ In other words,  Dawkins  believes  that  atheism is  a  purely  rational  set  of  beliefs  and therefore   not   something   which   can be  inherited  or  received  uncritically.  We  can  presume  that  he  thinks  the absolute  opposite  is  true  of  atheism’s  arch-nemesis, religion.

 

In the run-up to the UK census in 2011, the British Humanist Association launched   a   campaign   urging people   to   identify   themselves as  ‘no  religion’  if  they  did  not genuinely  believe  in  a  religious tradition.  The  results,  published in  late  2012,  showed  that  25% of people (up from 15% in 2001) had  indeed  stipulated  that  they did  not  have  a  religion.  This  is not the same as the hard atheism of  Dawkins,  but  it  nevertheless reflects  the  fact  that  a  growing number of people in Britain think that  there  is  no  grounds  for  religious belief of any kind.

 

Today  there  is  a  widespread  perception that atheists are intrinsically more critical,  rational  or  evidence-based  in their beliefs than religious people. This fallacy has been popularised by the New Atheists,  many  of  whom  are  scientists and  intellectuals,  who  -  whether  on the  grounds  of  science,  philosophy  or morality  –  are  determined  to  portray religion   and   religious   believers   as emotional, irrational in their beliefs and averse to asking questions. By contrast, they   portray   atheism   as   a   logical, evidence-based  position  that  anyone who carefully reflects on life’s big questions will arrive at.

 

But these assertions are more polemic than fact. More than a thousand years of   Muslim   theological   enquiry   belie Dawkin’s claim that rational, evidence-based arguments are the sole preserve of  the  atheist.  In  the  works  of  the Islamic  scholars  of  discursive  theology (kalam),  reason  and  rational  certainty are    considered    paramount;    blind-following  is  not  allowed  in  matters  of doctrine – meaning that each and every individual  believer  (even  if  they  were born into a Muslim family) has a moral duty  to  investigate  the  rational  arguments  and  evidence  for  their  beliefs. The Qur’an repudiates the idea of belief in the absence of evidence, “…they say, ‘We  will  rather  follow  what  we  have found   our   fathers   following.’   What, even if their fathers neither applied any reason nor were guided?!” (2: 170)  In other words, the Islamic tradition is, at its  root,  nothing  less  than:  ‘Think  for yourself. Be critical.’

 

Moreover, there are many atheists who clearly   want   something   more   than abstract  rational  arguments  for  non-belief  which  Dawkins  subsumes  under the heading of “critical thinking”. Atheists  have  long  created  parodies of  religion  (mainly  Christianity), like  Pastafarianism  (don’t  ask!), but  there  are  now  straight-faced atheist  “churches”  springing  up in London and other cities whose Sunday services, while differing in content,  closely  mimic  the  style of  a  Christian  congregation.  This clearly  shows  that  there  are  non-rational  (though  not  necessarily irrational) aspects to religion that atheists  value  and  wish  to  retain, even  in  the  absence  of  religious belief. Whether this is couched in terms of  community  or  public  affirmations of  “faith”,  it  is  precisely  these  non-rational  dimensions  which  constitute a   “tradition”   rather   than   a   set   of rationally-arrived  at  beliefs.  It  is  intellectually dishonest to pretend that this is anything else.

 

This  shows  that  people, while     cynical     towards     organised religion,  are  still  looking  for  two  of  its two  major  components;  a  set  of  rational, evidence-based  beliefs  and  a  larger  tradition  in  which  they  can  participate.  Framed thus, it appears that Islam has a great deal to offer. Our vibrant tradition of scholastic learning has provided us with a wealth of rational and textual arguments for the beliefs we hold. Not only that, but in a time when there is widespread disillusionment with the breakdown of traditional values, Islam –  a social religion par excellence –has the potential to revive virtues such as honesty, family and community,  which  many  British  people  would  like  to  see  a return to. Perhaps this is why, at a time of declining religious belief in general, Islam continues to attract five thousand new converts every year in Britain alone.

 

But while Islam has a great deal to offer the world, can the same be said of us? How critical have we been in the adoption of our beliefs? If we don’t know why we believe, we are hardly in a position to convince others. People find faith in a myriad number of ways; some are initiated through being brought up in a Muslim family, some through marrying a Muslim partner, others because they have Muslim friends; some embrace Islam through  careful  deliberation,  others fall  in  love  with  God’s  religion  at  first sight.  But however  we  came  to  the  faith is only part of the equation; the real question is how are we keeping the faith? When families fall  out,  partners  split  up  and  friends move away; when we find ourselves in difficulty, without  a  loving,  caring  community  of  fellow believers,  what  keeps  us  on  the  path?  When  we go through the Dark Night of the Soul, what guides us through to the other side? If we don’t have good reasons for believing, then sooner or later we will find our belief is not enough to carry us through.

 

But  how  do  you  know  if  you  have  good  reasons  for believing?  People  often  carry  out  mock  job  interviews either  with  themselves  or  with  the  help  of  a  friend;  try instead questioning your beliefs (whether alone or with a friend) and ask yourself what you believe and why. Then probe your answers and see if you can find anything you are unsure about.  Write down your questions  and  go  in search of answers. Remember the famous saying of Imam Ali (as) :  ‘Knowledge  is  a  treasure  house  whose  keys  are  questions.’  In this way you  can  strengthen  your  own  beliefs  and ensure  that,  should  the  opportunity  ever  present  itself,  you can explain them in a coherent manner to someone who is interested in Islam.

 

Faith  is  not  ‘belief  in  the  absence  of  evidence’  (despite  the erroneous claims of both theists and atheists alike); true faith is  the  fruit  of  intellectual  certainty.  That  certainty  can  only come  from  educating  ourselves  and  interrogating  our  own beliefs. So while atheists may brandish the slogan ‘Think for yourself.  Be  critical.’  and  believe  it  belongs  to  them,  with  a little more critical reflection on their part, they might realise that we’ve been saying this all along.

Written by Alexander Khaleeli

 

Source: http://www.aimislam.com/atheists-critical-thinking-and-tradition/

Edited by Hussainiyat Zindabad
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i believe this study is probably true, people who accept religion have a laid back approach to life

they think , whatever i dont have here il have there(akhira) so i dont care to work hard etc, while an atheists thinks "its now or never" and hence has to work under stress and pressure his whole life thinking this is the only opportunity i will have to get what i want before i die 

i have met many muslims who are simpletons in thought and mind, they are not educated, they are mostly tradesmen and their ideologies in life is "let somebody else do it" 

many many muslims i know are just ignorant fools with basic knowledge , they spend their teens trying to find a wife, and then they get the lowest jobs of society 

 if you go to universities you find that the majority lecturers etc are not believers, at my university i hardly even ever run into muslim students

in fact the muslim student i run into are either saudi(rich kids who dont take their education seriously) or i run into iranian students who came here with very high scores from their home school and are working very hard at complex degrees and masters , however they are a handfull

at my local mosque there is maybe a 10 out of 200 or less that i know of personally who are educated with higher degrees, the rest are tradesmen with "brotherhood mentality" they act more like street social groups then anything else, they go everywhere together such as the local fast food outlets, gyms where they spend their times together, and they obviously go to work etc where they work physical jobs

they dont have the "iqra" mentality they would rather sit at a lecture and listen to a person talk as opposed to read a book 

they are those kind of people who are all about "toughness" as opposed to brains, in all honesty i cant even get along with them, its always 
hezbollah this hezbollah that, nasrallah this nasrallah that,  but as people they are just living their lives worried about paying their mortgage etc

and as i said i rarely run into muslim students at my university, and my university is probably the best of Australia

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

Einstein's theory of relativity has been challenged. He wasn't a know-all and there are none. I don't doubt there must be a whole lot of atheists, agnostics and other filth in the world, and that is because it has been foretold. For almost everyone, belief is a choice. What is wrong with believing any way? Why risk hell. Like children, people have to check whats trending with the coolest kids on the block when picking something.

 

Is there someone more intelligent than Imam Ali (as).

 

So there is the list of "smart" (intelligent) people who choose to believe atheism and agnosticism. Lets also check the endless list of stupid people we can abhor who are also atheist / agnostic. I guarantee you, that while scientists and "smart" people may be found in either sides, you won't find a single true believer who is as stupid, ugly in the inside and revolting as those among the atheists.

 

As for smart people, sure, Abu Bakr was also "smart". His aunt told him Muhammad would rule the world so he made some investment and used "smart" moves along with Ayesha and Umar and, thanks to his "smartness", became king over Arabia. Yeah, real "smart".

 

Jews are real "smart" since they invented usury. Politicians are always the smartest. Britney Spears.. ughh.. whatever that thing is. And so on.

 

Some people use the left side of the brain (most extreme right / extreme left and other criminals). Some use the right side (optimists, peace loving, caring, spiritual, dreamer types, a lot of women). Some use the front side more (mathematicians). Some use the back side more and have difficulty using the front side (most dexterous people who need sharpness and fast eye-to-hand coordination). Some use the small round thing at the center and lower part of the brain (pessimists, depressed, sad, those dwelling on the past). The brain is wired in a way that each different set of emotion triggers a higher activity in a different part of the brain. These triggers can be thoughts or experiences. The more certain parts are used, the more those get developed and connected to a person's circuit, much like body building these can be improved with frequent use. And even then there are regions which are sadly uncharted and unknown to our modern know-it-all science -- which is about 70% of the brain matter. :p

 

Yet, we are discussing whether God exists.

 

Can some smart and intelligent scientist tell me who made the laws of physics, the laws of thermodynamics, laws of electromagnetism, etc., and why are they all constant and unchanging. Why the nearly non-existent primordial force that holds an atom together always stays constant? Why don't parts of the universe simply implode and explode randomly due to some mishap with their atomic structure or random chance?

 

Also, if life can indeed be created with amino acids and lightning, then why hasn't any single person created a living cell yet? We could conduct a controlled experiment. Sterilize and empty out a small container, with the help of NASA perhaps albeit its not hard at all, then fill it with water, oxygen, amino acids and pass electricity, radio waves, light and whatever else through it at frequencies of our choice. Guess how many living cells we will create. Absolutely none, ever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

New research says atheists are smarter?

 

Well, here is what Abul Ala Al-Ma’arri said in the 11th century:

 

‘The inhabitants of the earth are of two sorts: those with brains, but no religion, and those with religion, but no brains.’

 

So much for their new modern research!

 

.

.

.

.

 

Oh wait, perhaps all atheists think they are smarter than the believers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

New research says atheists are smarter?

 

Well, here is what Abul Ala Al-Ma’arri said in the 11th century:

 

‘The inhabitants of the earth are of two sorts: those with brains, but no religion, and those with religion, but no brains.’

 

So much for their new modern research!

 

.

.

.

.

 

Oh wait, perhaps all atheists think they are smarter than the believers?

 

Lastly, those are not at all to be tolerated who deny the being of a God. Promises, covenants, and oaths, which are the bonds of human society, can have no hold upon an atheist. The taking away of God, though but even in thought, dissolves all; besides also, those that by their atheism undermine and destroy all religion, can have no pretence of religion whereupon to challenge the privilege of a toleration [John Locke, Letter Concerning Toleration]

 

Mm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even if people deny God as an idea totally, or to use a summary of an idea, nobody can deny good and evil and consequence, therefore just because a person denies the idea of a God, doesnt mean he/she doesnt believe in God

God is not just an external thing which is not related to any other thing, if you believe in consequence you believe in God

also at the same time a person who says verbally or as an idea accept God as a thing in his/her mind doesnt believe in God if he/she doesnt believe in consequence i.e sin and evil , so if a person says "i dont care im going to do so and so.." he /she is in fact denying God , which is really the only way to deny God

an atheist is truly an atheist if he/she consciously goes against all good and promotes evil insisting that evil is good and good is evil, this is true denial of God

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Best example is those evil salafis and wahabis who kill in the name of God, they claim to believe in God but they have completely turned God's law inside out upside down, because they believe God wants them to kill and be ignorant etc

this si true denial of God

while an atheist living in the west refuses or would never hurt another living being, as many of my lecturers are peace loving people who are against wars , they believe in giving people rights to live and giving people a chance, despite that this individual says "there is no God" while the so called believer in Allah kills thinking that he/she is doing good



 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Of course atheists are smarter. Who becomes atheist but people who don't think they need a God? The poor, the oppressed, the imprisoned, the uneducated, all these people may have wisdom but seldom have much education. And they are reminded every day that they are small and weak in this great universe.

May we never grow so arrogant as to not need Allah!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Best example is those evil salafis and wahabis who kill in the name of God, they claim to believe in God but they have completely turned God's law inside out upside down, because they believe God wants them to kill and be ignorant etc

this si true denial of God

while an atheist living in the west refuses or would never hurt another living being, as many of my lecturers are peace loving people who are against wars , they believe in giving people rights to live and giving people a chance, despite that this individual says "there is no God" while the so called believer in Allah kills thinking that he/she is doing good

You are right I think Wahabism/Salafism are different religions. They make there own rules and worship the souls of suicide bombers and worship there god Osama Bin Laden.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

I didn't read the article, nor the thread, so sorry if someone has made these points before:

 

1) How did they measure intelligence? Through some sort of aptitude test? This is a culturally biased way of measuring intelligence. Sattar Khan was illiterate. The Prophet of God (pbuh) was unlettered, although we Shia believe he was literate in the sense of knowing how to read and write. Can anyone say he was unintelligent because of it? Aptitude tests like the SAT, LSAT, etc. measure a certain type of intelligence, yes, but they are far from objective.

 

2) Because of the culturally biased nature of aptitude tests, scoring well on these tests is dependent upon certain factors. One of them is being brought up in an environment where the questions raised in aptitude tests are common. Atheists are mostly concentrated in these environments (i.e. Western Europe and North America).

 

So these are some things to consider about the study, if indeed an aptitude test was the manner in which they tested intelligence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

So these are some things to consider about the study, if indeed an aptitude test was the manner in which they tested intelligence.

Intelligent and smart are two different things. A smart person possesses a quantity of knowledge. An intelligent person is capable of more easily gaining knowledge and/or attaining a deeper level of understanding.

Certainly atheists couldn't be more intelligent and still not get it! But usually their heads are filled with facts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

 

Your society will pass through a period when cunning and crafty intriguers will be favored by status, when profligates will be considered as well-bred, well-behaved and elegant elites of the society, when just and honest persons will be considered as weaklings, when charity will be considered as a loss to wealth and property, when support and help to each other will be considered as favour and benevolence and when prayers and worship to Allah will be taken up for the sake of show to gain popularity and higher status, at such times regimes will be run under the advice of women and the youngsters will be the rulers and counselors of the State. - Imam Ali (AS)

 

(wasalam) 

Edited by BuggyLemon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...