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In the Name of God بسم الله

Is Iraq A Failed State?

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  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

Since, fall of Saddam Hussien in 2003, Iraqi government failed to create a national identity. Today when you go to Iraq your either Shi'a, Sunni, Kurd, ect. There is no national sprite, bribery is very common, security is nonexistent, and each group is trying to obtain as much power as possible. Political posts have turned into securing foreign allies, based on sectarian lines, and security posts have turned into a tool to make a fortune, not to serve the county. The military's loyalty not lies with the country anymore.   

 

Under secularist Ba'ath government (60s-2003) Iraqi people had strong national identity. They considered themselves Iraqi first then shia and or sunni.  Because of this, Iraqi education, health system, economy, military, and industries grew at faster pace then anyone could imagined . Iraq diversified its economy, so it could shift toward heavy industry from oil. The focus of the government was to develop its agriculture industries, petroleum sector, and military complex. All of theses developments were to achieve a self-sufficiency, which was almost a reality before Gulf War (1991).  

 

Iraqi people who served under Saddam Hussien (Ba'ath Party members) are not allowed to server in any governmental positions today. They fell like they are abandoned by their country, and everything they did for the last ten years was not enough to prove that they are Iraq's sons, not Saddam's men. Should Iraq legalize Ba'ath Party once again? Why or why not? 

 

PLEASE NOTE: This post is not about shia, sunni, and or Iran. It is only about Iraq and its future.  

Edited by msabiri
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

Since, fall of Saddam Hussien in 2003, Iraqi government failed to create a national identity. Today when you go to Iraq your either Shi'a, Sunni, Kurd, ect. There is no national sprite, bribery is very common, security is nonexistent, and each group is trying to obtain as much power as possible. Political posts have turned into securing foreign allies, based on sectarian lines, and security posts have turned into a tool to make a fortune, not to serve the county. The military's loyalty not lies with the country anymore.   

 

Under secularist Ba'ath government (60s-2003) Iraqi people had strong national identity. They considered themselves Iraqi first then shia and or sunni.  Because of this, Iraqi education, health system, economy, military, and industries grew at faster pace then anyone could imagined . Iraq diversified its economy, so it could shift toward heavy industry from oil. The focus of the government was to develop its agriculture industries, petroleum sector, and military complex. All of theses developments were to achieve a self-sufficiency, which was almost a reality before Gulf War (1991).  

 

Iraqi people who served under Saddam Hussien (Ba'ath Party members) are not allowed to server in any governmental positions today. They fell like they are abandoned by their country, and everything they did for the last ten years was not enough to prove that they are Iraq's sons, not Saddam's men. Should Iraq legalize Ba'ath Party once again? Why or why not? 

 

PLEASE NOTE: This post is not about shia, sunni, and or Iran. It is only about Iraq and its future.  

 

One does not simply create a national identity, the only solution for Iraq is for the Shia majority part to separate the Kurd and Sunni parts and create one strong Arab Shia national identity, but that will probably never happen, because people are opposed to that for some reason because "We are strong together!", not in this scenario you are not. Unless one charistmatic man among them realizes this and strives to create one strong unified national identity through the political system there will only be further blood shed. Just some advice. To much diversity divinity, just saying. If you want I could go there and solve it's problems for you..

Edited by dfdfRandolphdfdf
Posted

No. But Ba'thists who did not commit any crimes, and who can offer their services to the country should be reintegrated. 

 

I don't have time to expand, but your whole argument is baseless. Iraqis did not share a national identity during Saddam's time. The Shia and the Kurds were oppressed and massacred, their voices silenced. The only voices you heard were those of the Ba'thists and the Sunnis.

Posted (edited)

The situation in Iraq today is worse than it was prior to the fall of saddam hussain.

-From an iraqi myself, currently residing in Al-Basrah

 

You are in Basrah atm? If yes:

 

1. How's the situation in Basrah (in terms of safety/security)?

2. What are people saying about the surge of violence around Iraq in recent weeks?

3. How's the businesses in Iraq?

4. How's Ramadhan going? Very humid days in Iraq, correct?

5. Anything relevant to Syria going on where you are (i.e fighters leaving/returning to Basra)?

Edited by GodBlessAli
  • Advanced Member
Posted

It is almost a failed state, not entirely due to the fact that there is a government. However, the government's failure to protect even its own prisons and state institutions (let along iraqis), is a really negative sign that things in the future might become worst.

 

You also need to be specific on which parts of iraq are you talking of? The Kurdish part is fine and is functioning quiet well and very successfully. However, the rest of Iraq is not  this fortunate and could become a failed state in the future, but for now it is not.

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

@PureTruth

I agree with you. However, I was referring to the Baa'thist Iraq before first Gulf War.

@dfdf...

Are you suggesting to divide Iraq into three parts, Sunni Arab, Shia Arab, and Kurds? 

@Wizdom

I disagree with you.  I would suggest researching a bit about Iraqi history before making your opinion based on propaganda your heard.

@ Mousa

After the first Gulf War, Iraqi Kurds have created their own state, which is not truly part of modern day Iraq. That being said, Iraqi Kurdish region is fine and functioning quiet well, but how to form a national identity? and unity among sunni and shia Arabs? Do Iraqi neighbors even want a strong Iraq, that once existed? 

Edited by msabiri
  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)

^ As a Pakistani brother in faith I'd like to welcome the fine people of.. uh.. what was Iraq to democracy, liberty and freedom from tyranny. We're immensely enjoying the fruits of this uh.. system ourselves here too. ^^ I would also like to congratulate Libya, Egypt, and other countries embracing the bliss of democratic freedom. Now we can all decide for ourselves exactly when to clean our rooms and when to flush the toilets, among so many other freedoms under a democratically selected government of their choice.^^^^^^^^^ 

 

Only now we can free ourselves from paying taxes and all the other uglies of life by simply standing in the street and dying in a fortuitous agency terrorist attack. :) Isn't that wonderful? Never before was such permanent sort of freedom available for free. ^^^^

Edited by Darth Vader
  • Advanced Member
Posted

@PureTruth

I agree with you. However, I was referring to the Baa'thist Iraq before first Gulf War.

@dfdf...

Are you suggesting to divide Iraq into three parts, Sunni Arab, Shia Arab, and Kurds? 

@Wizdom

I disagree with you.  I would suggest researching a bit about Iraqi history before making your opinion based on propaganda your heard.

@ Mousa

After the first Gulf War, Iraqi Kurds have created their own state, which is not truly part of modern day Iraq. That being said, Iraqi Kurdish region is fine and functioning quiet well, but how to form a national identity? and unity among sunni and shia Arabs? Do Iraqi neighbors even want a strong Iraq, that once existed? 

The Iraqi Kurdish region is the best so far.

Forming a national identity in Iraq will be very difficult, if not impossible in the medium term (10-15 years). Politicians in Iraq do not intent on forming a national identity anyway. Kurds identify themselves with being Kurds first than Iraqis and aspire to have than own state. Iraq's top politician, Nori Al-Maliki, stated that he is a Shia first and Iraqi second. Similarly, such statement come out of the Sunni side as well. Thus, they have a long way, if ever, in creating a national identity.

 

Iraq neighbours are part of the problem. None of the neigbhors want a strong national Iraq.  

Iran wouldn't like a relatively strong, it much rather have a weak Shia Iraq to follow its regional goals.

Gulf Arabs do not want a strong Iraq as well, they would rather have a weak neutral Iraq ( or at best an anti-Iranian Iraq, but defiantly not a strong one).

As both the Iranians and the Gulf Arabs had to go to war against Iraq before, and as such do not want the same thing to happen again.

 

 

The situation in Iraq is very bad and it is very difficult to see it getting better with a major change in its politics.  

  • Advanced Member
Posted

@ Darth Vader 

The Western democratic system is the same old orchestra

Its notes have nothing but the melodies of Caesar

The demon of despotism is treading the path of democracy

Thou considereth it to be the fairy of freedom

The constituent assembly reforms grant concessions and rights

In the Western medical system tastes are

sweet but the effects are sporadic

The heat of the debates of assemblies! May God protect us!

This too is a sham quarrel to deceive others

Thou considereth this mirage of attractions to be a garden

O simpleton! thou considereth the cage to be the nest- Mohammad Iqbal

 

@Musa54321

 I agree with you. I believe a federal system under a weak central government might work for Iraq at this stage. 

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

Iraq is not only a failed state, it's a fake state. 

 

Why is it a fake state? enlighten me, is it because saddam isn't there?

Edited by syeduddin
  • Forum Administrators
Posted

Why is it a fake state? enlighten me, is it because saddam isn't there?

 

It's a fake state because its a manufactued central authroity governing borders that are fake and artificial.  "Iraq" is a product of colonialism. 

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