Will All Non Muslims Go To Hell?

Iamgr8 · July 24, 2013

Quran clearly says Muslims and Christians, Jews, Sabians will go to heaven if they all believe in Allah and the last day and do righteous work.

It means Christians and Jews also have chance to go heaven according to Islam but the condition is they have to be strictly monotheists and do good work.

Christians are not strictly monotheists at all. They have 3 Gods. Jesus is one of them though they deny it that they have 3 Gods. They say 3 is actually 1. Its monotheistic polytheism. It means Christians have barely any chance to enter heaven. Jews can since they believe in absolutely singlur God. What about the people of other religions? Will all go to hell? What do you think? Can Allah forgive a good non muslim / Kafir if they does righteous work in their lifetime? There are so many good non muslims in the world.I feel so bad when I think they all will go to hell.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Iamgr8

**ireallywannaknow** · July 24, 2013

Quran clearly says Muslims and Christians, Jews, Sabians will go to heaven if they all believe in Allah and the last day and do righteous work.

(bismillah)

(salam)

According to interpretations of the Qur'an (Tafsir al Mizan for one), that's not what the verse means. It's not talking about Christians ans Jews and Sabians of today, but it means those that followed Prophet Isa (as) and Prophet Musa (as) during their times. The point of the verse is, no matter what 'name' you're called or were called, as long as you do the right thing and follow the right people, you will go to heaven inshaAllah. So even if you're called a 'Muslim,' that alone does not guarantee your salvation.

**Ethics** · July 24, 2013

Question: We know of many people around the world who are not Muslims or Shi`a but are nevertheless individuals of good conduct; for example, non-Muslims are responsible for many inventions. Is it right that they all deserve to be punished in Hell because they are not Muslims?

Brief Answer

Those who do not believe in Islam can be classified into two groups:

1. Those who are termed ‘Jahil-e-Muqassir’ (lit. ‘culpable ignorant’). These are non-believers to whom the message of Islam has reached and who have understood its truthfulness. However, they are not prepared to accept the truth due to their obstinacy and stubbornness. This group deserves to be punished in Hell.

2. Those who are termed ‘Jahil-e-Qasir’ (lit. ‘inculpable ignorant’). These are non-believers to whom the message of Islam has not reached, or it has been presented to them in a very incomplete and untruthful manner. Such people will attain salvation if they are truthful to their own religion.

Detailed Answer

Islam is a simple and accessible religion and it is easy to find out its truthfulness by means of the two guiding authorities that have been given to mankind: the ‘outer’ guiding authority, that is, Allah’s prophets and saints, and the ‘inner’ one, that is, the intellect.[152]

Islam is in complete opposition to the concept of religious pluralism because this concept is based on the principle that different beliefs are equal and that Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews etc. all have the same rank and status. According to religious pluralism, no proof exists for the invalidity of any belief because the truth is unattainable and religion is a relative and completely personal affair. Not only are its truths and real substance unattainable and every person takes from it whatever he or she personally understands, but furthermore, there are numerous truths and many correct paths to salvation and deliverance.

Such views are inconsistent with the religion of Islam, which is comprised of a set of fundamental beliefs and practical, legal and ethical laws and principles. Islam does however give concessions to those who are far from its reality. This can be better understood when we consider that there are two groups of people who do not believe in Islam:

1. Those who are termed ‘Jahil-e-Muqassir’ (lit. ‘culpable ignorant’) and who are obstinate non-believers. That is, Islam has reached them and they have understood its truthfulness; however, they are not prepared to accept the truth due to their obstinacy and stubbornness. This group of non-believers deserves to be punished in Hell because despite having known the truth, they have chosen with their own free will to reject Islam. These non-believers, even though they may be of good conduct, could have attained salvation but instead have closed the path to salvation themselves as they have covered the truth and are rebellious and obstinate in relation to it. As a result, they have chosen their own predicament.

2. Those who are termed ‘Jahil-e-Qasir’ (lit. ‘inculpable ignorant’). These are non-believers to whom the message of Islam has not reached, or it has been presented to them in a very incomplete and untruthful manner; so for example, they think that Islam has the same status and rank as the religions of India and China and at the most, Judaism and Christianity. This group of non-believers, whether they live in the most remote parts of the world or in the most civilized, will not be subject to the punishments of Hell because they are not blameworthy for their lack of belief, and punishment is only for blameworthy sinners.

Unfortunately, there is so much propaganda against Islam that free thinking and seeking the truth has been taken away from many people in a way that they cannot distinguish truth from falsehood. The fact is that despite making significant material progress, contemporary man has regressed spiritually. The main cause of this is the ‘World Arrogance’—the superpower enemies of Islam—with its propagandist and deceptive media system that in full force tries to change and distort the truth. Therefore, many people, even in the most civilized of places, have remained unaware of the true message of Islam and of the enlivening Ahlul Bayt (ع) school of thought. Worse still, incorrect and unrealistic information about Islam is given to them in a way that a religion of mercy, love and justice is portrayed as a religion of violence, oppression and injustice.

In conclusion, from the point of view of Islam, those who have not heard about the true message of Islam and are not blameworthy with regard to this will attain salvation if they are truthful to their own religion. This religion must be based on the ‘fitrah’[153]—man’s primordial, innate nature—and so the followers of such a religion, for example, abstain from lying and committing crimes against humanity. This rule is also applicable to the Ahlus Sunnah to whom the truthfulness of Shi’aism has not been explained correctly.

Notes:

[152]al-Kafi, v.1, p.25, no. 22

[153] Fitrah: Allah says in the Qur`an, “The divine nature by which Allah has created mankind” (30:30). Therefore, the fitrah in every person is the root of all spiritual matters and goodness. Imam Rida (ع) has said, “And it is by means of the fitrah that His proof is substantiated” (al-Saduq, al-Tawhid, pg. 35. That is, whatever Allah has as argumentation is of no use without the fitrah. By this explanation, it becomes evident why in the terminology of Islamic philosophers and theologians the fitrah is referred to as the origin of all spiritual matters and goodness, in contrast to tabi’ah (nature), which is referred to as the origin of all material and instinctive matters. Man is a being of free will that continuously chooses the path of the fitrah or the way of tabi’ah, and it is with this free will that he determines his life in the Hereafter, as indicated in the famous hadith: “The World is a plantation for the Hereafter.”

http://www.al-islam.org/faith_reason/

mehdi23 · July 24, 2013

(bismillah)
(salam)

According to interpretations of the Qur'an (Tafsir al Mizan for one), that's not what the verse means. It's not talking about Christians and Jews and Sabians of today, but it means those that followed Prophet Isa (as) and Prophet Musa (as) during their times. The point of the verse is, no matter what 'name' you're called or were called, as long as you do the right thing and follow the right people, you will go to heaven inshaAllah. So even if you're called a 'Muslim,' that alone does not guarantee your salvation.

- The followers of Isa and Musa were the Muslims of their era, as affirmed by other verses in the Qur'an. The deviated religious doctrines formed their own distinct labels later.

- The verse promising salvation for Christians, Jews and Sabians was revealed in an environment where these religions were present in society and large in number of followers. It was revealed specifically in the context of this community, not for anyone else. Otherwise it would be a meaningless, even illogical verse. So Allah is promising salvation to the followers of their specific doctrines, in that time and place.

Problem: Elsewhere in the Qur'an, the Christians are scathingly condemned for their belief system. Contradiction.

Edited July 24, 2013 by mehdi23

Wing · July 25, 2013

Problem: Elsewhere in the Qur'an, the Christians are scathingly condemned for their belief system. Contradiction.

If you read all the verses related to them you would know that Allah is referring to communities within each religion. A party is moderate another is defiantly disobedient etc.. Now read all the verses and connect the easy puzzle, no contradiction at all.

mehdi23 · July 25, 2013

If you read all the verses related to them you would know that Allah is referring to communities within each religion. A party is moderate another is defiantly disobedient etc.. Now read all the verses and connect the easy puzzle, no contradiction at all.

...And the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!. 9:30

Few questions arise from this verse:

- Was Allah referring to a specific group among Christians or Christians as a whole? If not the latter, where is the proof and why couldn't Allah be more specific? It's as unfair as treating all "Muslims" as terrorists.

- Were the believers in Jesus as a son of God sincere in their belief? If so, and they're being condemned in the Qur'an then is it really fair?

Does it not mean that a majority of Christians today are destined for hell?

- How would one reconcile this with the verses of salvation? Why would Allah condemn and threaten them with an eternal torment for their belief system and make false promises of salvation for them?

Wing · July 25, 2013

...And the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!. 9:30
Few questions arise from this verse:
- Was Allah referring to a specific group among Christians or Christians as a whole? If not the latter, where is the proof and why couldn't Allah be more specific? It's as unfair as treating all "Muslims" as terrorists.
- Were the believers in Jesus as a son of God sincere in their belief? If so, and they're being condemned in the Qur'an then is it really fair?
Does it not mean that a majority of Christians today are destined for hell?
- How would one reconcile this with the verses of salvation? Why would Allah condemn and threaten them with an eternal torment for their belief system and make false promises of salvation for them?

Read all the verses relating to this subject and connect the easy puzzle. You can find them across the Quran in different Suraat

-[5:66]And if only they upheld [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to them from their Lord, they would have consumed [provision] from above them and from beneath their feet. Among them are a moderate community, but many of them - evil is that which they do.

-Those who were sincere may be of the moderate community, I doubt they believed in Jesus as the Son of God(as condemned in the Quran). Most likely not, Majority of humanity is in hell fire, not just "Christians", especially the later nations.

-There are Christians today who do not believe Jesus as the son of God/trinity. Those may have a chance for salvation.

This reminds me of a similar discussion I had on this site, I'll link you to it when I find it.

**Son of Placid** · July 25, 2013

More and more Christians are starting to understand the concept of trinity is flawed. The whole father/son thing is over-rated. Interesting, but note...

Jesus often calls God His Father, (always followed by, "who is in heaven") Jesus never calls Himself the son of God. Seems you can call your creator father, but you can't claim to be his son. Many called Jesus the son of God, (as prophesied) but it still doesn't make Jesus an actual son of God. Neither does it make Him God.

The majority of Christians don't understand the concept of trinity, while the Bible clearly teaches one God. They were taught it long ago, and if questioned, will defend it because they feel they have to, but tend to silently believe in one God. When it says Jesus will sit on the right hand of God it doesn't mean in God's throne, nor on His lap. As metaphorically as it all sounds, it's very clear Jesus is not God.

ImAli · July 25, 2013

I once had a Pentecostal woman tell me I will go to hell if I don't accept Jesus as my lord and savior and become Christian, Pentecostal specifically.

Then in 2002, I was invited to watch a film that a groups of Christians captured on a mission through the Amazon. I thought it would be interesting so accepted the invitation. After viewing the film I was cornered on the way out with them all laying hands on me, some of them men so I was quite offended. The reason for this was they were praying for Jesus to force satan to release his grip on me. That had to be one of the creepiest things ever, aside from rude and offensive which I already mentioned.

I wish this train of thought would cease to exist.......you are going to he'll if you don't believe the same thing I believe.

Edited July 25, 2013 by ImAli

HamzaTR · August 5, 2013

Salam. This is the best book on this issue.. Hope you check it:

http://www.al-islam.org/religiouspluralism/

or you can download it in pdf here: http://www.dropbox.com/s/tc83ts6yp5p9qzz/Islam%20And%20Religious%20Pluralism%20-%20Shaheed%20Mutahhari.pdf

and this lecture can be beneficial:

ma salam

Edited August 5, 2013 by HamzaTR

**Haydar Husayn** · August 6, 2013

Here is one view, which seems pretty reasonable:

**baqar** · August 6, 2013

This thread makes sense only if Muslims can be sure that they will all go to heaven.

But they won't.

Muslims should seriously consider their own fate rather then that of others.

Of course, people of all religions have as much chance of going to heaven as Muslims have.

Considering that most people follow the religion of their birth, the fact of one's religion should not make such a big difference in the final assessment of our performance.

Because if it did, it would mean that God decides our fate on the basis of the accident of our birth.

Consider this -- a person who is born a non-Muslim could just as well have been a very good Muslim if he had been born in a Muslim home.

As for people having the opportunity to change to the right religion, that is pure nonsense.

If I was a non-Muslim by birth, considering the anti-Islam material in books and on the Internet and the quality of Muslims around, there is very little chance that I would have ever converted to Islam.

**Christianlady** · August 6, 2013

Quran clearly says Muslims and Christians, Jews, Sabians will go to heaven if they all believe in Allah and the last day and do righteous work.

It means Christians and Jews also have chance to go heaven according to Islam but the condition is they have to be strictly monotheists and do good work.

Christians are not strictly monotheists at all. They have 3 Gods. Jesus is one of them though they deny it that they have 3 Gods. They say 3 is actually 1. Its monotheistic polytheism. It means Christians have barely any chance to enter heaven. Jews can since they believe in absolutely singlur God. What about the people of other religions? Will all go to hell? What do you think? Can Allah forgive a good non muslim / Kafir if they does righteous work in their lifetime? There are so many good non muslims in the world.I feel so bad when I think they all will go to hell.

Hello Iamgr8,

Your empathy is very kind and appreciated. :)

First of all, it is interesting that in the Qur'an, hell is brought up much more than in the Tanakh and Christian Bible (which is basically the Tanakh and the New Testament). I personally think hell is much more of a doctrine in Islam than it is in either Judaism or Christianity.

While Jesus warns people about hell, he does so not condemning those who do not believe in him, but rather condemning the following actions: (I boldened some.)

1. Anger/calling a person a fool:

²¹“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,^[Exodus 20:13^] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ ²²But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister^[The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a fellow disciple, whether man or woman; also in verse 23.^] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’^[An Aramaic term of contempt^] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell." - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5&version=NIV

2. Lust, sins committed with eyes and/or hands and/or feet:

²⁷“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’^[Exodus 20:14^] ²⁸But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. ²⁹If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. ³⁰And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell."

"⁴³If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. ^[44]^[b] ⁴⁵And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. ^[46]^[c] ⁴⁷And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, ⁴⁸where“‘the worms that eat them do not die,

and the fire is not quenched.’^[Isaiah 66:24^]"

3. Not helping those in need:

"³¹“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. ³²All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. ³³He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

³⁴“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. ³⁵For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, ³⁶I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

³⁷“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? ³⁸When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? ³⁹When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

⁴⁰“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

⁴¹“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. ⁴²For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, ⁴³I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

⁴⁴“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

⁴⁵“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

⁴⁶“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mat%2025:31-46&version=NIV

As for Christians believing that God is Triune, it's important to understand that Triune does not mean 3, but rather 3 in one. For example, I believe I am triune in that I am one being with 3 aspects: soul, spirit, and body. Does that mean I think I am 3 beings? Nope. I am one being with 3 aspects: 1 visible (body) and 2 invisible (soul and spirit),

As for the Islamic idea of Paradise, I am personally not interested. I love the Christian concept of Heaven, the Kingdom of God which is centered on God, not on sensual pleasures.

Peace and God bless you

Ali Musaaa :) · August 7, 2013

^... One major problem the of the Bible (actually, I don't think it's a Biblical issue, it's just a flawed interpretation of it) is that nowhere in the 4 Gospels does Jesus explicitly state he is either God himself or make an explicit mention of being part of a Trinity.

How logical is it that every single Prophet prior to Jesus Christ (a) comes from God telling His creation that their Lord is One and His nature is One and there is not a single mention of a Triune being and then all of a sudden comes Jesus Christ telling everyone he is the Son of God (which he never says in either of the Gospels, yet you believe it to be true), part of a Trinity (again, not one explicit mention but central to your belief) and that he himself is God (once more no explicit verse from the mouth of Jesus himself perhaps the most blasphemous of beliefs that is once again unsupported by the man who you believe made these claims).

Note: I in no way mean to upset you or be disrespectful when I said it was blasphemous. This is just our understanding. Yours differs. That's fine. Likewise I'm sure you'd consider it blasphemous to state Muhammad was a Prophet. But then again there are many Christians who believe Muhammad is a Prophet (none other than good old Placid and his son :P ). But I'm sure you'd consider such people as deviants for this belief? What's your take on such individuals?

I think that's a major issue. The fact that your view of God and His nature is not even supported by the man who you claim is God. How can one who believes God is One, beyond our senses and imagination and formless, how can you expect us to leave our idea of God that is supported by the Old Testament and accept something that is not even explicitly taught in the 4 Gospels by Jesus himself?

Also, I'm not sure what the Heaven reference was in response too. Heaven is Paradise and Paradise is Heaven. The highest and best of pleasures and rewards is being in the presence of God.

CLynn · August 7, 2013

"It was the Trinity doctrine which gave rise to the variant in the Gospel account... not the other way around. Had the perception not existed there would have been no need to write it in. It was considered an important enough part of the perception of Jesus to present it in a clear fashion.
It is foolishness to act as though the church made up the Gospels "as if there were no eyewitnesses present to check such fabrication."

Zaynab McCabe · August 7, 2013

If you claim Jesus is God please explain the versus when Jesus was one the cross he called out to his Lord and asked "why have you forsaken me?" your then saying Jesus was talking to himself asking thus... As well you then believe God as Jesus was a God that died then was brought back to life by himself. Do you believe God is limited and while he was serving a group of people on the earth no one was to watch over the rest of humanity.

Sorry if I have miss understood you. If I have then please explain.

Ali Musaaa :) · August 7, 2013

"It was the Trinity doctrine which gave rise to the variant in the Gospel account... not the other way around. Had the perception not existed there would have been no need to write it in. It was considered an important enough part of the perception of Jesus to present it in a clear fashion.
It is foolishness to act as though the church made up the Gospels "as if there were no eyewitnesses present to check such fabrication."

That's a nice little quote, thats about all it is. Seen it before. Yet fails to address the fact Jesus never once explicitly claimed he was God or part of a Trinity.

CLynn · August 7, 2013

That's a nice little quote, thats about all it is. Seen it before. Yet fails to address the fact Jesus never once explicitly claimed he was God or part of a Trinity.

Greetings Ali Musaaa,

Then you missed what is being said.

Had Yahshua not said it, then the perception would not have existed and it never would have been in the gospels. It is the gospels and the things that Yahshua said that gave the need for the nicene council to clarify their meaning. As it says... 'it is foolish to think that there were no eyewitnesses around at the time the gospels were being written to dispute what was written'.

Salaam,

CLynn

I am sure that all of the scriptures have been presented before, so there is no need to re-present them here.

Edited August 7, 2013 by CLynn

Ali Musaaa :) · August 7, 2013

Greetings Ali Musaaa,
Then you missed what is being said.
Had Yahshua not said it, then the perception would not have existed and it never would have been in the gospels. It is the gospels and the things that Yahshua said that gave the need for the nicene council to clarify their meaning. As it says... 'it is foolish to think that there were no eyewitnesses around at the time the gospels were being written to dispute what was written'.
Salaam,
CLynn
I am sure that all of the scriptures have been presented before, so there is no need to re-present them here.

LOL wow. Look... Can you just please save us all the trouble of all this unproductive talk and quote us the verses of Jesus Christ making explicit claims that he is God and part of a Trinity. I'm sure your familiar with the Scripture well enough to know Jesus' words. As a starting point, they are often in red. Now run along. Bismillah. :P

See you soon ^_^

Edited August 7, 2013 by Ali Musaaa :)

**Reza** · August 7, 2013

Man, nobody really knows where they will end up.

**Ethics** · August 7, 2013

The point is Christianity is in contradiction with the notion of God, and his nature. Secondary matters are secondary. There is no need to go into the bible when the chrisitanity god is going against god itself. You destroy the foundation of its religion, its a done deal. That is why no one can challenge islam. Its always childs talk with insults and lies. No one can rationally challenge the Islamic notion of Tawhid.

CLynn · August 7, 2013

If you claim Jesus is God please explain the versus when Jesus was one the cross he called out to his Lord and asked "why have you forsaken me?" your then saying Jesus was talking to himself asking thus... As well you then believe God as Jesus was a God that died then was brought back to life by himself. Do you believe God is limited and while he was serving a group of people on the earth no one was to watch over the rest of humanity.
Sorry if I have miss understood you. If I have then please explain.

Greetings Zaynab,

What people can't seem to wrap their minds around is that God can be many things and in many places. God can be everywhere and anywhere, in whatever way He chooses. Who can understand the entity that is Creator? We are talking of something outside the realm of human understanding.

Yahshua was a manifestation of God in flesh so that we could understand. God did not cease to exist... He existed in two places. He also exists in the Holy Spirit, which is how God can live in us. How do you suppose prophets receive the word of God? I say it is through the manifestation of the Holy Spirit within them.

The flesh was calling out to the Creator. It was the flesh that ceased. The Spirit, that part of the Creator that was sent down, ascended to rejoin with the Creator.

"Into Your hands I commend My Spirit."

It was the flesh that was revived in the resurrection, by the returning of the Spirit to the body.

The Creator must reveal the mystery to the mind.

Salaam,

CLynn

Edited August 7, 2013 by CLynn

Ali Musaaa :) · August 7, 2013

The point is Christianity is in contradiction with the notion of God, and his nature. Secondary matters are secondary. There is no need to go into the bible when the chrisitanity god is going against god itself. You destroy the foundation of its religion, its a done deal. That is why no one can challenge islam. Its always childs talk with insults and lies. No one can rationally challenge the Islamic notion of Tawhid.

Are you talking about Trinitarianism? There are many sects & branches of Christianity.

When you say something like that, could you give examples and/or elaborate a bit, bro? :P

CLynn · August 7, 2013

LOL wow. Look... Can you just please save us all the trouble of all this unproductive talk and quote us the verses of Jesus Christ making explicit claims that he is God and part of a Trinity. I'm sure your familiar with the Scripture well enough to know Jesus' words. As a starting point, they are often in red. Now run along. Bismillah. :P
See you soon ^_^

Greetings Ali Musaaa,

Will I be telling you anything that has not been shared with you before?

If you've heard it before and reject it, there is no need me taking my limited time and energy to do it again.

Salaam,

CLynn

Man, nobody really knows where they will end up.

Greetings magma,

Well said.

This is true.

I do have faith in Yahshua. Anyway, if I have to choose, I choose Him. I like what He taught. I like His God. God of love and redemption. :)

Salaam,

CLynn

Edited August 7, 2013 by CLynn

**Ethics** · August 7, 2013

Are you talking about Trinitarianism? There are many sects & branches of Christianity.
When you say something like that, could you give examples and/or elaborate a bit, bro? :P

What is the basis notion of the christian religion?

Zaynab McCabe · August 7, 2013

Greetings Zaynab,
What people can't seem to wrap their minds around is that God can be many things and in many places. God can be everywhere and anywhere, in whatever way He chooses. Who can understand the entity that is Creator? We are talking of something outside the realm of human understanding.
Yahshua was a manifestation of God in flesh... God did not cease to exist... He existed in two places. He also exists in the Holy Spirit, which is how God can live in us. How do you suppose prophets receive the word of God? I say it is through the manifestation of the Holy Spirit within them.
The flesh was calling out to the Creator. It was the flesh that ceased. The Spirit, that part of the Creator that was sent down, ascended to rejoin with the Creator.
"Into Your hands I commend My Spirit."
It was the flesh that was revived in the resurrection, by the returning of the Spirit to the body.
The Creator must reveal the mystery to the mind.
Salaam,
CLynn

Hello Sister

Does God live in more than 2 or 3 places?

**Haydar Husayn** · August 7, 2013

Hello Iamgr8,

Your empathy is very kind and appreciated. :)

First of all, it is interesting that in the Qur'an, hell is brought up much more than in the Tanakh and Christian Bible (which is basically the Tanakh and the New Testament). I personally think hell is much more of a doctrine in Islam than it is in either Judaism or Christianity.

While Jesus warns people about hell, he does so not condemning those who do not believe in him, but rather condemning the following actions:

Well, that's all very nice, but meanwhile the Bible also says this:

John 3:18 (NIV)

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Mark 16 (NIV)

15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

(these are Jesus' words)

As for Christians believing that God is Triune, it's important to understand that Triune does not mean 3, but rather 3 in one. For example, I believe I am triune in that I am one being with 3 aspects: soul, spirit, and body. Does that mean I think I am 3 beings? Nope. I am one being with 3 aspects: 1 visible (body) and 2 invisible (soul and spirit),

You are also one person, with one mind, while the Trinity contains three distinct persons (not aspects), with 3 distinct minds. Your model of the Trinity seems to come close to Modalism (or Sabellianism), which says that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all just different aspects of the one God, or different ways of seeing Him. This, according to orthodox Trinitarian Christianity, is a heresy.

As for the Islamic idea of Paradise, I am personally not interested. I love the Christian concept of Heaven, the Kingdom of God which is centered on God, not on sensual pleasures.

Peace and God bless you

Sensual pleasures like eating?

Genesis 2:16 (NIV)

And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;

CLynn · August 7, 2013

Hello Sister
Does God live in more than 2 or 3 places?

Greetings Zaynab,

It is my belief that God is everywhere, and can be anywhere He wants to be, in what ever way He wants to be.

Salaam,

CLynn

Ali Musaaa :) · August 7, 2013

Greetings Ali Musaaa,

Will I be telling you anything that has not been shared with you before?
If you've heard it before and reject it, there is no need me taking my limited time and energy to do it again.

Salaam,
CLynn

G'day mate,

Oh but there is. Ill just wait for Christian Lady if you don't wanna contribute. She's a smart cookie. :P

What I'd be interested in seeing is a discussion between Placid and his son and Christian Lady on the Trinity. That would be interesting to see both arguments from a Christian perspective.

Zaynab McCabe · August 7, 2013

Does God manifest in certain people or in everyone. As you believe God is everywhere.

**Ethics** · August 7, 2013

Greetings Zaynab,

It is my belief that God is everywhere, and can be anywhere He wants to be, in what ever way He wants to be.

Salaam,
CLynn

If god is everywhere, is he in my bathroom, in hell, in me, as well? If god is everywhere, that means he is infinitely spaced, which implies non existence. Also if god was everywhere, that everywhere was created by god, which means it was non existent, which also implies there would be no god. Also everywhere is limited, and everywhere perishes, as its material, so god is material and he perishes.

Edited August 7, 2013 by PureEthics

Ali Musaaa :) · August 7, 2013

What is the basis notion of the christian religion?

That Jesus Christ died for your sins and if you don't accept him as your saviour you goin' to a warm place.

**Ethics** · August 7, 2013

That Jesus Christ died for your sins and if you don't accept him as your saviour you goin' to a warm place.

even simpler notion to tackle and disprove.

CLynn · August 7, 2013

Does God manifest in certain people or in everyone. As you believe God is everywhere.

Greetings Zaynab,

I believe we develop different level of awareness depending on how much we seek Him, but also that He comes to us in His own timing. I believe God has a unique purpose for each one of us and He will reveal that which He needs to reveal of Himself. God wants us to be seeking Him.

"Knock and the door will be opened, seek and ye will find"

These were the words of Yahshua.

Salaam,

CLynn

If god is everywhere, is he in my bathroom, in hell, in me, as well? If god is everywhere, that means he is infinitely spaced, which implies non existence. Also if god was everywhere, that everywhere was created by god, which means it was non existent, which also implies there would be no god. Also everywhere is limited, and everywhere perishes, as its material, so god is material and he perishes.

Greetings PureEthics,

What is life? Life is energy. Does energy perish, or does it just take on new forms?

Salaam,

CLynn

**Ethics** · August 7, 2013

Greetings PureEthics,

What is life? Life is energy. Does energy perish, or does it just take on new forms?

Salaam,
CLynn

So your implying god is energy? So in other words if god is part engery, god created himself, or parts of himself? As energy was non existent once. Also, by god creating himself or part of himself, would be a contradiction, its impossible. By the way I just wanna add, energy has a mass, it is part of all creation, which once again falls back to my original statement. You are trapped in this argument, and will just keep digging yourself deeper into this irrational nonsense. I love debating like this. Because it truly shows what nonsense you have yourself believing. Truth is clear from Falsehood.

Edited August 7, 2013 by PureEthics

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