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peace seeker

Did The Prophet (S) Appoint A Successor?

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The first Eleven were martyred.

Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì gave us 11 generations that we managed to mess up. So obviously, we aren't worthy.

You're worthy enough to call yourself a Muslim arnt you??

You're worthy enough to have the glorious quran arnt you

So if you're worthy enough for these two things then why not imams

Are you trying to say Allah is punishing US for mistakes that people commmited thousand years ago

Not very al adl is it??

AUTHENTIC?? AUTHENTIC? See this is the flaw in your whole belief.

There is NO authentic book besides the Holy word of God in the Holy Quran.

No Sahih Bukhari, Muslim or Bateekhi.

Just ONE book. There is no other.

So il ask you again what gave your imams left you??

Prophet (pbuh) left us quran to keep us guided what did your imams leave you???

Edited by Just the truth

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Firstly imam means leader, it does not mean they became imams the way shia interpretate it.

Nubbuwah is above Imamate

All your imams are under every single prophet

Ok I'm holding onto quran, where is imam mahdi so I can hold on to him to??

Why have we not got somebody guiding us if this ummah needs infalliable imams

Why only the early generations and not us??

 

Well think about it like this.

 

If Muhammad said "I leave behind Qur'an and Ahl ul Bayt"

 

And the people ignore the Qur'an and kill the Ahl ul Bayt....

 

1400 years later you ask me where the Ahl ul Bayt are?

 

They were killed.  

 

Whatever guidance they had for us to keep us on the straight path was mostly lost.

 

Shia's, also I think all Muslims, believe that the Mahdi will bring the true religion... Right now there are many sects and division and confusion, no one is practicing the way Muhammad practiced, according to numerous traditions anyways.

 

Like I said before, I'm not fighting or defending any particular belief, I'm just here for facts and historical evidences.

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You're worthy enough to call yourself a Muslim arnt you??

You're worthy enough to have the glorious quran arnt you

So if you're worthy enough for these two things then why not imams

Are you trying to say Allah is punishing US for mistakes that people commmited thousand years ago

Not very al adl is it??

First of all. You aren't proficient enough in English to sit here and attempt to misconstrue my words. So stop.

Secondly, no one even said the word punish. So don't be a drama queen.

Lastly, if you do not see flaws in yourself. Then there can be no improvement now can there?

You're worthy enough to call yourself a Muslim arnt you??

You're worthy enough to have the glorious quran arnt you

So if you're worthy enough for these two things then why not imams

Are you trying to say Allah is punishing US for mistakes that people commmited thousand years ago

Not very al adl is it??

So il ask you again what gave your imams left you??

Prophet (pbuh) left us quran to keep us guided what did your imams leave you???

The Prophet (saaw) left ME the Holy Quran and the ways of his beloved Ahlul Bayt (AS).

Nothing else needs to be left.

Imam Jaafar Al Sadiq (AS) says, and I'm paraphrasing, If any of you should find a hadeeth claiming to be of our teachings, compare it with the Holy Quran, if it does not match then toss it to the winds.

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Prophets are needed to guide us

Prophet (pbuh) left quran behind which we are guided by till this day can you see an infalliable leading us???

What authentic book did your imams leave behind????

 

LOOL. If the quran is suppose to be our guidance after prophethood, does the quran interpret itself or do we need a divinely chosen being to interpret it for us? Terrorists say quran lets them kill, non-hijabs say there is no hijab in quran, quranists say there is no prophets, sunni say their way..... Which is right? There is no way God will leave us a book, WHICH does not even have the number of rakats, besides not having every religious law, to let us interpret it the way we want. That is NOT guidance at all! If your god did that, he is not smart. Sorry but it is the most stupidest argument I have ever heard coming from sunnis, that the quran is our guidance Allah left. Quran is one of the most important "part" of the guidance system he has given us, but it isnt solely it. We need representatives who not only guide us in a universal way, but PROTECT and INTERPRET the Quran, by Allah's will.

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Prophets are needed to guide us

Prophet (pbuh) left quran behind which we are guided by till this day can you see an infalliable leading us???

What authentic book did your imams leave behind????

 

You make no sense. There are many Ahadith about the Imams (As) and in fact they did leave some of books, but they where compiled by their companions.

If the prophet (pbuh) told you to hold on, the Book of Allah and the Ahlulbayt (as), does he mean physically? or within your heart? I'm sure its within your heart.

How can you hold on to an Imam that you cannot see?

When the prophet (pbuh) said HOLD ON, does he mean Physically? or Religiously with in your heart?

Does he say that Hold on to the Quran PHYSICALLY? NO.

So how can you believe in an Imam you cannot see?

Well than how can you believe in a prophet Like Prophet Khudir (as), who you cannot see, but exists?   

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who is this guy? another ugly jinn?

 

before you come on this forum please read something about islam. This forum is not for illiterates.  

 

As for his question, I will ask him another question was Hazrat Musa (as) a Prophet? did he appoint a successor? was Hazrat Isa ibn Maryam (as) a Prophet? did he appoint a successor?

 

 

Ameer ul Mumineen Ali Abi Talib (as) is the shepherd of the Ummah. period

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Well think about it like this.

If Muhammad said "I leave behind Qur'an and Ahl ul Bayt"

And the people ignore the Qur'an and kill the Ahl ul Bayt....

1400 years later you ask me where the Ahl ul Bayt are?

They were killed.

Whatever guidance they had for us to keep us on the straight path was mostly lost.

Shia's, also I think all Muslims, believe that the Mahdi will bring the true religion... Right now there are many sects and division and confusion, no one is practicing the way Muhammad practiced, according to numerous traditions anyways.

Like I said before, I'm not fighting or defending any particular belief, I'm just here for facts and historical evidences.

1. Go and research wgat AHLE BAYT means.

2. I see how shia believe that prophets family AHLE BAYT is restricted to 12.

Well answer me this , if indeed AHLE BAYT means just your 12 imams then who on earth are sayids??

Why do you go to the trouble of missing their hands??? and showing so much respect to them???

We believe that dm mahdi is not the son of imam Askari.

We believe he is from the AHLE BAYT (bloodline/family) of the prophet (pbuh)

I highly suggest to you to go and research what AHLE BAYT means!!

Are we the AHLE BAYT of Adam a.s??? Are we not ALL his sons and daughters??

I find it rather funny how you say you do not defend anu1 when your posts say otherwise

who is this guy? another ugly jinn?

before you come on this forum please read something about islam. This forum is not for illiterates.

As for his question, I will ask him another question was Hazrat Musa (as) a Prophet? did he appoint a successor? was Hazrat Isa ibn Maryam (as) a Prophet? did he appoint a successor?

Ameer ul Mumineen Ali Abi Talib (as) is the shepherd of the Ummah. period

I have a challenge for you.

Surah 3:7

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] PRECISE - they are the FOUNDATION of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

imamat is FOUNDATION of islam according to shia so find me 1 PRECISE VERSE

Thank you

You make no sense. There are many Ahadith about the Imams (As) and in fact they did leave some of books, but they where compiled by their companions.

If the prophet (pbuh) told you to hold on, the Book of Allah and the Ahlulbayt (as), does he mean physically? or within your heart? I'm sure its within your heart.

How can you hold on to an Imam that you cannot see?

When the prophet (pbuh) said HOLD ON, does he mean Physically? or Religiously with in your heart?

Does he say that Hold on to the Quran PHYSICALLY? NO.

So how can you believe in an Imam you cannot see?

Well than how can you believe in a prophet Like Prophet Khudir (as), who you cannot see, but exists?

You have failed to understand friend.

I've asked you 3 times this very same question

If we are now being guided through the quran and hadith and not an infalliable then why did the earlier generations need an infalliable

LOOL. If the quran is suppose to be our guidance after prophethood, does the quran interpret itself or do we need a divinely chosen being to interpret it for us? Terrorists say quran lets them kill, non-hijabs say there is no hijab in quran, quranists say there is no prophets, sunni say their way..... Which is right? There is no way God will leave us a book, WHICH does not even have the number of rakats, besides not having every religious law, to let us interpret it the way we want. That is NOT guidance at all! If your god did that, he is not smart. Sorry but it is the most stupidest argument I have ever heard coming from sunnis, that the quran is our guidance Allah left. Quran is one of the most important "part" of the guidance system he has given us, but it isnt solely it. We need representatives who not only guide us in a universal way, but PROTECT and INTERPRET the Quran, by Allah's will.

Yes quran is guide and I'm not a quranist

Why do we need infalliables to lead us??

Do you not have any hadith on how prophet said pray salah and howl many rakahs how to pay zakat etc etc, if not then you should question why??

If you have hadiths from prophet then why did we need infalliables to repeat the same again??

Could the earlier generations not have done the same as US and follow authentic hadith from prophet??

Why did they need infalliables to repeat the same message again yet WE nowadays are all left with only authentic hadiths??

Edited by Just the truth

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1. Go and research wgat AHLE BAYT means.

2. I see how shia believe that prophets family AHLE BAYT is restricted to 12.

Well answer me this , if indeed AHLE BAYT means just your 12 imams then who on earth are sayids??

Why do you go to the trouble of kissing their hands??? and showing so much respect to them???

We believe that imam mahdi is not the son of imam Askari.

We believe he is from the AHLE BAYT (bloodline/family) of the prophet (pbuh)

I highly suggest to you to go and research what AHLE BAYT means!!

Are we the AHLE BAYT of Adam a.s??? Are we not ALL his sons and daughters??

I find it rather funny how you say you do not defend any1 when your posts say otherwise

I have a challenge for you.

Surah 3:7

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] PRECISE - they are the FOUNDATION of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

imamat is FOUNDATION of islam according to shia so find me 1 PRECISE VERSE

Thank you

You have failed to understand friend.

I've asked you 3 times this very same question

If we are now being guided through the quran and hadith and not an infalliable then why did the earlier generations need an infalliable

Yes quran is guide and I'm not a quranist

Why do we need infalliables to lead us??

Do you not have any hadith on how prophet said pray salah and howl many rakahs how to pay zakat etc etc, if not then you should question why??

If you have hadiths from prophet then why did we need infalliables to repeat the same again??

Could the earlier generations not have done the same as US and follow authentic hadith from prophet??

Why did they need infalliables to repeat the same message again yet WE nowadays are all left with only authentic hadiths??

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Your Quranist agenda wont work here, we have 1400 years of history to talk about. You have taken that Quranic verse out of context. We have loads of ahadith if you are the follower of our Master Mustafa (sawa) to support our claim.

 

Sura 5:3 was revealed to reflect the completion of the deen through the establishment of the wilayat of Ameer ul Mumineen (as).

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Actually no. We know who Ahlul Bayt refers too. You have an incorrect definition.

I am Sayed, but I'm not Ahlul Bayt. Ahlul Bayt isn't just anyone and everyone who is related somehow to the Prophet.

There is actually various ahadeeths on who they are. Don't just translate the word and think it means family. It doesnt.

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AHLUL BAYT OF THE HOLY PROPHET :

It does NOT refer to everyone blood related to the Prophet, for example Sayeda Zeinab (AS) is not the "Ahlul Bayt" 

 

The Verse of Purity, The Verse of Affection, The Verse of Malediction, The Verse of Prayer, The Verse of Feeding and The Verse of Guardianship all refer to Ahlul Bayt, Ahlul Bayt are 4 people; Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain. Of these four, the 9 remaining infallible Imams descend from Imam Hussains blood line. 

 

The Hadith of the Two Weighty Things:

             "I leave behind two weighty things, the Book of Allah and my progeny; my Ahlul Bayt. Verily Allah, The Merciful, The Aware, has informed me that these two will NOT be separated until they meet me at the Fountain of Abundance. Therefore, be careful how you treat these two in my absence." 

 

Stop asking about where our Imam is hiding and why he isn't "guiding" us, stop making it a joke. The Prophet says the Holy Quran and Ahlul Bayt will never separate. Never. 

 

Sources? More than 20 companions narrated this hadeeth, and has been narrated by over 185 narrators mentioned in Sahih Muslim (Vol 2, Pg 238) Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (Vol 5 Pg 181-182) and Sahih Tirmidhi (Vol 2, Pg 220) 

 

Even though you are a waste of my time. I'm going to post this, just in case someone who God chooses to enlighten comes across it. 

 

 

Firstly : The Holy Prophet (pbuh) repeated on many occasions that he would be followed by twelve imams and that they would all be from Bani Hashim.

                 In "Sahih" books Bani Hashim has been changed to Quraysh, however 7 other sources confirm it was Bani Hashim.

SOURCES : Sahih al Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Volume 2, Pg 191

                   Sahih al-Tirmidhi Vol.2, Pg 45 

                   Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol.5, Pg 106 

                   Sunan Abu Dawud, Vol 2, Pg 207 

 

Secondly: The Prophet (PBUH) invited his immediate family to proclaim his message to Islam, during this gathering of more than 40 men. The Prophet (PBUH) said "This is my brother, my legatee, and my successor over you, so listen to him and obey him", referring to Imam Ali.

 

                 There are about 50 sources to that quote and I'm not bothered to write them here. 

 

Thirdly : 114,000 people were witness to Ghadir Khum; Need we continue to reiterate those events? 110 Companions narrated the events. All confirming the same concept that Umar himself confirmed.

" Congratulations oh Ali, you have become my leader (mawla) and the leader of every faithful Muslim" ~ Umar 

SOURCES:  Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Musnad Vol 4, Pg 281 

al- Ghazali, Sirr al-Alamin Page 12

al-Tabrai, al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah Volume 2, Pg 169                 

 

Fourthly : The Prophet (PBUH) said : "You are in the same position with relation to me as Aaron was with Moses, except that there will be no Prophet after me". Go study Aaron and Moses (PBUT)

        SOURCES : Sahih al Bukhari - Book on Outstanding Traits, hadith 3430

                                                         Battles - Hadith 4064

                           Sahih Muslim - Book of the Merits of the Companions, hadith 4418 

                           AND many others which I don't feel like typing up here. 

 

Fifth Point ; During the battle of Khaybar Imam Ali was chosen as the flag bearer and the Prophet (PBUH) said "I will certainly give this standard to a man whom Allah and his Messenger love". Umar and Abu Baker and a bunch of other companions were present, SOMEHOW, the Prophet and God chose Imam Ali. Wonder why? 

      SOURCES : Sahih Bukhari- Book of Jihad and Marching Hadiths 2724 and 2753 

                                                  Battles - Hadith 3888

                          Sahih Muslim - Book on the Merits of the companions Hadith 4423 and 4424 

                         AND other sources , too much to keep typing. 

 

Sixth Point : Sayeda Fatima died promising to never forgive Abu Bakr or Umar for the land of Fadak. Now Sunnis say it wasn't her right, because it was meant to be used towards charity and they quote various useless interpretations. Ironically enough the land of Fadak became the property of Marwan b. al Hakam, a man whom the Prophet (pbuh) had exiled and cursed years before and it was given to him by the third Kaliphe. I guess Marwan needed the charity. 

 

                      Lets see what the Prophet says about Fatima? 

 

                      "The pleasure of Fatima is my pleasure, and her wrath and anger is my anger, and whoever loves my daughter Fatima loves me, and whoever pleases her, pleases me and whoever angers her angers  me." Sahih al Bukhari (5:36) 

            

 

Lastly: Your hadeeths are all obscured and unlike you, we have a grading system. Let me give you the history on your hadeeths.

 

          Umar called Abu Huraira "the enemy of Allah and the enemy of the Book of Allah" (Source; Ibn al-Atheer, al bidayah w al nihaya, 8:116)

         He also said "Most likely, because of the abundance of the hadith, you are lying about the Prophet"  (Ibn Abil Hadid, Sharh Nahjul Balagha, 1:1360)

      NOW,  Abu Huraira narrated over 5,700 hadeeths. 446 are listed in Sahih al-Bukhari, yet somehow he only spent 3 years with the Prophet (PBUH) 

 

      Sahih Muslim says that Umar beat Abu Hurayra on occasion and quotes Abu Huraira as admitting that "I have narrated to you several traditions that had I narrated them during the time of Umar, Umar would have lashed me with a stick" . 

 

     So, we can conclude that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim in a sense are both "Sahih" yet somehow they contradict one another.

 

 

The logic is amazing. I don't need hadeeths, I don't need a scholar, or people to tell me how to read. It is all common sense.

 

Who was the first and last child to ever be born in the Kaaba? ALI
Who grew up in the same household as the Prophet (pbuh)? ALI
Who was the first male to convert to Islam? ALI
Who was one of the first three to ever fight for the sake of Islam (alongside Hamze and the Prophet (pbuh))? ALI
Who was given the Prophet's (pbuh) most precious and priceless gift as a bride? ALI
Who was the ONLY person to give the Prophet (pbuh) his funeral bath and lower him into his grave? ALI

 

 

 

Period. End of Story. 

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Well said lebsyeda87

 

Also consider this irony.

 

Four men, let's say they're each 40 years old for argument sake.

 

Three of them have the same agenda, whereas the fourth is an odd-ball.

 

The three decide that if they take control of this government and each elects the next after him, then by the time the second or third person is in control, the fourth will already be dead.

 

Which solves the problem of even having him be in control at all.

 

Let's say each person lives approximately 15 years after taking control...

 

A) 40 --> 55

B) 55 --> 70

C) 70 --> 85

 

Most people do not live this long, especially 1400 years ago.

 

Yet against the odds, all three of them died and made way for Ali who still took control anyways without having to force it.

 

This is like how Prince Charles has been waiting for the Queen to die so he can assume Kingship, but lol it isn't happening, and there are all of these other people in line waiting... It is so unlikely for someone even 20 years younger than the Queen to ever have the throne let alone the third or fourth in line for the throne... More likely they will all die before they get their turn and a very young perhaps unborn child gets the throne.

 

So do you really think that when Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman got together and were like "Abu Bakr will be first Caliph, then Omar, then Uthman... LOL then Ali... trololol" that they were ever expecting Omar, let alone Uthman, let alone Ali would take control of the Caliphate?

 

They didn't know the future, they didn't know that they would die in such an order.  It could have been that Omar died first, and then that would mean that the second caliph becomes Uthman... Or maybe Abu Bakr and Uthman die and then only Omar is the first Caliph and lives for 30 years and Ali dies and the second caliph becomes someone else entirely...

 

Clearly they didn't have this knowledge, so the motivation for them choosing this line was clearly to maintain power and stack all odds in their favor from ever having someone else gain power.

 

They couldn't just say "Ali you will never be caliph" because that would have started a major war worse than what already took place, since there were already the Shi'atu 'Ali in uproar over this tragedy that was the usurpation of the Caliphate from the Ulul Amr.  

 

So they decided they would say "Ali maybe in 200 years you can be Caliph, ok? lolol"

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Statement (Justthetruth):
1. Go and research wgat AHLE BAYT means.
 
You make sesne friend. I gave you Ahadith that are SAHIH from your books and you have made no absolute reply to them, whatsoever.
​You keep ignoring my posts by constantly blaming me for copying and pasting, When I cop and past a Hadith from your book which I HAVE CONFIRMED on. Your argument is baseless. If you reject your 2 sahihs and the 4 sahihs and not to mention the 3 primary sources of

Ahlulsunnah, whats your point in coming here? Concerning who are Ahlulbayt. If you look at for example the Tradition of the Cloak, WHICH IS
AUTHENTIC:

 
(bismillah) 
 
 
Jabir Ibn Abdullah Ansari (Allah be pleased with him) narrates from the authority of Lady Fatima, the beloved daughter of the Holy Prophet (peace be on her) that she said:  
  
 
"One day when my beloved father, the Holy Prophet (S), visited me in my house, 
he (S) said: `O Fatima! Peace be on you.' 
 
I replied: `O father! Peace be on you too.' 
 
He then said: `I am feeling some weakness within me.' 
 
I said: 'Allah forbid that you may be sick.' 
 
Then he said: 'Fatima! Fetch me a Yemenite cloak and wrap it round me.' I brought the Yemenite cloak and covered my dear father with it. I then noticed that his face was glowing like a full moon. 
 
A moment later, my beloved son, Hassan came and said: 'O my dear mother! Peace of Allah be on you.'
 
1 replied: 'O my loving son, the apple of my eyes, the delight of my heart! Peace be on you too.'
 
He then said: 'O my dear mother! I am smelling the fragrance of my loving grandfather!'
 
I said:`Yes, your beloved grandfather is here under the cloak.'
Hassan then went forwards his grandfather and said: `O my grandfather! Peace be on you. May I enter the cloak.'
 
My loving father replied: `O my son, the owner of my fountain (of Kauthar)! Peace be on you too. Yes; you may enter.'
 
Thus Hassan entered the cloak. Soon after, my loving son, Hussain came and said: `O my dear mother! Peace be on you.'
 
1 replied: `O my loving son, the apple of my eyes, the delight of my heart! peace be on you too.'
 
He then said: `O my dear mother! I am smelling the fragrance of my affectionate grandfather!' I replied: 'Yes, your loving grandfather and your elder brother Hassan, are inside the cloak.'
 
Hussain then went near the cloak and said: `O my dear grandfather, the chosen Prophet of Allah! peace be on you. May I also come inside the cloak to be with both of you.
My loving father replied: `O my son, the interceder of my Ummah! peace be on you too. Yes you may enter.'
 
Thus Hussain too entered the cloak.
 
Then Ali-Ibn Abu Talib came and said: `O beloved daughter of the Holy Prophet! peace be on you.'
 
1 replied: `O Abul-Hassan, Commander of the Faithful! peace be on you too.'
 
He then said: 'Fatima! I am smelling the fragrance of my brother, the son of my Uncle.'
 
I replied: 'Yes! He along with your two sons is inside the cloak'
 
Ali then proceeded towards the cloak and said: `O Prophet of Allah! peace be on you. May I also come to you inside the cloak!'
 
My beloved father replied: 'Peace be on you also my brother, my vicegerent, my successor, my standard bearer! You may also come inside.' 
 
Thus Ali also went inside the cloak
 
Then I went near the cloak and said: `Peace be on you, O my loving father! O Prophet of Allah! May I also come to you inside the cloak.'
 
My loving father replied: 'Peace of Allah be on you also, my beloved daughter! All
dear heart! You too have my permission.'
 
Thus, I also went inside the cloak. Now when all of us got assembled inside the Cloak,
my affectionate father held the two corners of the cloak and raising his right hand towards the sky said:
 
'O Allah! These are my Ahlul-Bayt.
They are my confidants and my supporters.
Their flesh is my flesh and their blood is my blood. 
Whoever hurts them, hurts me. 
Whoever displeases them, displeases me.
Whoever makes peace with them, will make peace with me.
Whoever has enmity against them, will have enmity against me.
Whoever is a friend to them, is a friend of mine. It is because they belong to me and I belong to them.
O Allah! Bestow Your peace, Benevolence, Mercy, forgiveness and Your Pleasures on me and on them.
And keep them aloof from uncleanliness and keep them pure and thoroughly purified.'
 
Then the Lord, Almighty Allah said:
 
`O my Angels! O inmates of the heavens!
I created this solid firmament, well-stretched earth,
well-lighted moon, shinning sun, rotating planets, rippling oceans, floating boats, 
and all other things for the sake and love of these five persons who are inside the cloak.'
 
At this, the Archangel Gabriel asked:
 
`O Lord! Who are they inside the cloak?' 
 
The Lord said:
 
`They are Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet and the assets of the Prophethood. They are Fatima, her father, her husband and her two sons.'
 
Gabriel said:
 
`O Lord! permit me also to descend to earth and join them as the sixth inside the cloak.'
The Lord said: 'You are permitted.'
 
Thus Gabriel, the Archangel came down to earth and said:
 
`O Prophet of Allah! peace be on you. The Gracious Lord, the Almighty Allah sends His Greetings to you to bestow on you His Grace and Mercy and says:
"By My Grace and Grandeur! I have created this solid
firmament, well-stretched earth, well-lighted moon,
shining sun, rotating planets, rippling oceans, floating boats and 
all other things for the sake and love of you and
your chosen people."
 
And the Lord, Almighty has given me the permission to join you inside the cloak
O Prophet of Allah!
May I come in and be with you?' 
 
The Holy Prophet replied:
 
'O Bearer of the Divine revelations! Peace be on you also. Yes, you may come in.'
 
Then Gabriel too came inside the cloak
Thereafter, he spoke to my affectionate father:
 
'Allah sends His revelation to you people and says:
 
"Surely, Allah has decided that He should keep you and your Ahlul-Bayt clean of all pollution and purify you people with a thorough purification."'
 
Then Ali said to my loving father:
 
'Tell me! What merit the coming under this cloak has before Allah ?'
 
The Holy Prophet replied:
 
`By that Being, Who made me His Prophet and Who, for the salvation of mankind appointed me to prophethood! When any of our Shiites and supporters will assemble in a
gathering of the inmates of this earth and narrate this Hadith, Allah will bestow on them His Blessings and Mercy; angels will encircle them and as long as they do not disperse, 
the angels will pray for the forgiveness of their sins.'
 
At this, Ali said:
 
`By Allah! We and our Shiites have now become triumphant.'
 
Then the Holy Prophet said:
 
'O Ali! By that Being, Who made me the righteous prophet and appointed me to the prophet-hood for the sake of people's salvation, whenever in the gathering of the inmates of this earth our Shiites and friends will assemble and narrate this Hadith of ours, and if some-one amongst them will be in agony, Allah will remove his trouble; and if someone was sorrowful, Allah will relieve him of his sorrows; will answer his needs.'
 
Then Ali said:
 
`By Allah! At this moment we have been crowned with success and Blessings; and by the Lord of Kaabah, in the same way our Shiites too have become triumphant and blessed in this world and the Hereafter.' 


(pbuh) 


 Okay now my dear brother I shall mention it from your books in the following: both Sahih Muslim and Sahih al-Tirmidhi as well as many others confirm the Shi'ite point of view explained above. In Sahih Muslim, there is a chapter named "Chapter of Virtues of the Companions". Inside this chapter, there is a section called "Section of the Virtues of the Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet". There exists ONLY ONE tradition in this section, and this tradition has no reference to the wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). The tradition is known as "The Tradition of Cloak/Mantle" (Hadith al-Kisaa), and is as follows:

   Narrated Aisha:

One day the Prophet (PBUH&HF) came out afternoon wearing a black cloak (upper garment or gown; long coat), then al-Hasan Ibn Ali came and the Prophet accommodated him under the cloak, then al-Husain came and entered the cloak, then Fatimah came and the Prophet entered her under the cloak, then Ali came and the Prophet entered him to the cloak as well. Then the Prophet recited: "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification (the last sentence of Verse 33:33)."
 
Sunni reference:

  • Sahih Muslim, Chapter of virtues of companions, section of the virtues of the Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1883, Tradition #61.

One can see that the author of Sahih Muslim confirms that:

  • Imam Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain are the Ahlul-Bayt,
  • The purification sentence in Quran (the last sentence of Verse 33:33) was revealed for the virtue of the above-mentioned individuals, and NOT for the wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF).

Muslim (the Author) did not put any other tradition in this section (section of the virtues of Ahlul-Bayt). If the author of Sahih Muslim believed that the wives of the Prophet were included in Ahlul-Bayt, he would have quoted some traditions about them in this section.
 
It is interesting to see that Aisha, the wife of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) is the narrator of the above tradition, and she herself is testifying that Ahlul- Bayt are the above-mentioned individuals (i.e., Imam Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain, may the blessing of Allah be upon them all).
 
Another version of the "Tradition of Cloak" is written in Sahih al-Tirmidhi, which is narrated in the authority of Umar Ibn Abi Salama, the son of Umm Salama (another wife of Prophet), which is as follows:
 
The verse "Verily Allah intends to ... (33:33)" was revealed to the Prophet (PBUH&HF) in the house of Umm Salama. Upon that, the Prophet gathered Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain, and covered them with a cloak, and he also covered Ali who was behind him. Then the Prophet said: "O' Allah! These are the Members of my House (Ahlul-Bayt). Keep them away from every impurity and purify them with a perfect purification." Umm Salama (the wife of Prophet) asked: "Am I also included among them O Apostle of Allah?" the Prophet replied: "You remain in your position and you are toward a good ending."
 
Sunni reference: Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 351,663
       

 

As we see, al-Tirmidhi also confirms that Imam Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain are the Ahlul-Bayt, and the purification sentence in Quran (the last sentence of Verse 33:33) was revealed for the virtue of the above-mentioned individuals, and NOT for the wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Also it is apparent from above authentic tradition that the Prophet himself excluded his wives from Ahlul-Bayt. If Umm Salama (RA) was among Ahlul-Bayt, why didn't the Prophet answer her positively? Why didn't he enter her into the cloak? Why did the Prophet tell her that she remains in her own position? If the Prophet (PBUH&HF) would consider Umm Salama among Ahlul-Bayt, he would surely have entered her to the cloak and would have prayed for her perfect purity as well.

 

It is also worth mentioning that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) did NOT say: "These are among the Members of my House". He rather said: "These are THE Members of my House" since there was no other member of Ahlul-Bayt who was alive at the time of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Also notice that Umm Salama (RA) who is the virtuous wife of the Prophet is the narrator of the tradition to his son and gives the testimony that who Ahlul-Bayt are.

In the tradition of al-Hakim the wording the last question and answer is as follows:

 

 

Umm Salama said: "O Prophet of Allah! Am I not one of the members of your family?" The Holy Prophet replied: "You have a good future but only these are the members of my family. O Lord! The members of my family are more deserving."

 

Sunni reference: al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p416

 

Also the wording reported by al-Suyuti and Ibn al-Athir is as follows:

 

 

Umm Salama said to the Holy Prophet: "Am I also one of them?" He replied: "No. You have your own special position and your future is good."

 

Sunni reference:

 

  • Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn al-Athir, v2, p289
  • Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Suyuti, v5, p198

Also al-Tabari quotes Umm Salama saying:

 

 

I said, "O Prophet of Allah! Am I not also one of your Ahlul-Bayt?" I swear by the Almighty that the Holy Prophet did NOT grant me any distinction and said: "You have a good future."

 

Sunni reference: Tafsir al-Tabari, v22, p7 under the commentary of verse 33:33

 

Beside Sahih Muslim and Sahih al-Tirmidhi from which we quoted the Tradition of Cloak on the authority of Aisha and Umm Salama respectively, below are more Sunni references of the Tradition of Cloak who reported both versions of the traditions:

 

(3) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v6, pp 323,292,298; v1, pp 330-331; v3, p252; v4, p107 from Abu Sa'id al-Khudri

(4) Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p578, Tradition #978

(5) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p416 (two traditions) from Ibn Abi Salama, v3, pp 146-148 (five traditions), pp 158,172

(6) al-Khasa'is, by an-Nisa'i, pp 4,8

(7) al-Sunan, by al-Bayhaqi, narrated from Aisha and Umm Salama

(8) Tafsir al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 2, p69

(9) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, v2, p700 (Istanbul), from Aisha

(10) Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Suyuti, v5, pp 198,605 from Aisha and Umm Salama

(11) Tafsir Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, v22, pp 5-8 (from Aisha and Abu Sa'id al-Khudri), pp 6,8 (from Ibn Abi Salama) (10 traditions)

(12) Tafsir al-Qurtubi, under the commentary of verse 33:33 from Umm Salama

(13) Tafsir Ibn Kathir, v3, p485 (Complete version) from Aisha and Umar Ibn Abi Salama

(14) Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn al-Athir, v2, p12; v4, p79 narrated from Ibn Abi Salama

(15) Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, sec. 1, p221 from Umm Salama

(16) Tarikh, by al-Khateeb Baghdadi, v10, narrated from Ibn Abi Salama

(17) Tafsir al-Kashshaf, by al-Zamakhshari, v1, p193 narrated from Aisha

(18) Mushkil al-Athar, by al-Tahawi, v1, pp 332-336 (seven traditions)

(19) Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by Muhibb al-Tabari, pp21-26, from Abu Sa'id Khudri

(20) Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p166 (by several transmitters)


Here is another authentic variation of "The Tradition of Cloak" which is related to Safiyya who was another wife of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Ja'far Ibn Abi Talib narrated:

 

When the Messenger of Allah noticed that a blessing from Allah was to descent, he told Safiyya (one of his wives): "Call for me! Call for me!" Safiyya said: "Call who, O the Messenger of Allah?" He said: "Call for me my Ahlul-Bayt who are Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain." Thus we sent for them and they came to him. Then the Prophet (PBUH&HF) spread his cloak over them, and raised his hand (toward sky) saying: "O Allah! These are my family (Aalee), so bless Muhammad and the family (Aal) of Muhammad." And Allah, to whom belong Might and Majesty, revealed: "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a thorough purification (Quran, the last sentence of Verse 33:33)".

 

Sunni references:

  • al-Mustadrak by al-Hakim, Chapter of "Understanding (the virtues) of Companions, v3, p148. The author then wrote: "This tradition is authentic (Sahih) based on the criteria of the two Shaikhs (al-Bukhari and Muslim)."
  • Talkhis of al-Mustadrak, by al-Dhahabi, v3, p148
  • Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn al-Athir, v3, p33

Although since the majority of traditions on this issue show that the last sentence of the verse 33:33 was revealed in the house of Umm Salama (as quoted earlier), the above tradition implies that it might have been revealed in the house of Safiyya. Based on the opinion of the Sunni scholars including Ibn Hajar, it is quite possible that the verse was revealed more than once. In each occasion, the Prophet repeated his action in front of different wives so that they all realize who his Ahlul-Bayt are.

 

The testimony of three wives of the Prophet (Aisha, Umm Salama, and Safiyya) leaves us no room but to believe that the Ahlul-Bayt at the time of the Prophet were no more than five individuals: Prophet Muhammad, Lady Fatimah, Imam Ali, al-Hasan, and al-Husain (Peace be upon them all).


Statement:

I see how shia believe that prophets family AHLE BAYT is restricted to 12. 
Well answer me this , if indeed AHLE BAYT means just your 12 imams then who on earth are sayids??

 

Sayed Are Related to the 12 Imams who are Related to the prophet (pbuh),
The Sons Of Ali (as), who Hussain (as), and the rest of them (as). they are Called Sayids

Because they are from the linage of the prophet (pbuh).

​Concerning it been restricted to only 12, I have explained this from your books, also from Kunuz Al Almarl if I'm not mistaken.

 

(1) Sheikh Sulayman Balkhi Hanafi in his Yanabiu'l-Mawadda, ch.76, reports from Fara'idu's-Simtain of Hamwaini, who reports from Mujahid, who reports from Ibn Abbas, that a Jew named Na'thal came to the Holy Prophet and asked him questions about Tawhid (Unity of Allah). The Holy Prophet answered his questions and the Jew embraced Islam. Then he said: "O Holy Prophet, every prophet had a wasi (vicegerent). Our Prophet, Moses Bin Imran, made a will for Yusha Bin Nun. Please tell me who is your wasi?" The Holy Prophet said: "My vicegerent is Ali Bin Abi Talib; after him are Hasan, and Husain and after them are nine Imams, who are the successive descendants of Husain."

 

Na'thal asked the Holy Prophet the names of those Imams. The Holy Prophet said: "After Husain, his son, Ali, will be the Imam; after him his son, Muhammad; after him his son, Ja'far; after him his son Musa; after him his son, Ali; after him his son, Muhammad; after him his son, Hasan; after him his son, Muhammad Mahdi will be the last Imam. There will be twelve Imams." 

 

In addition to the names of the nine Imams, this hadith further states that each would succeed as Imam after his father. Na'thal made further inquiries, and the Holy Prophet described the manner of death of each Imam.

 

Then Na'thal said, "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that you are His Holy Prophet. I bear witness that these twelve holy Imams are your vicegerents after you. What you have said is exactly what is recorded in our books and in the will of Moses."

 

Then the Holy Prophet said: "Paradise is for him who loves them and obeys them, and Hell is for him who is hostile to them and opposes them."

 

Na'thal then recited some couplets to the effect that "May Allah, the Exalted, shower His blessings upon you, chosen Prophet and pride of the Bani Hashim. Allah has guided us by means of you and the twelve holy men whom you have named. Certainly Allah has purified them and preserved them from impurity. He who loves them is successful. He who hates them is the loser. The last of the Imams will quench the thirst of the thirsty. He is the one the people will wait for. Prophet of Allah, your progeny is a blessing for me and for all the believers. Those who turn away from them will soon be thrown into Hell."

 

(2) The great scholar, Sheikh Sulayman Balkhi, in his Yanabiu'l-Mawadda, ch. 76 reports from Manaqib of Khawarizmi, who reports from Wathila Bin Asqa' Bin Qarkhab, who reports Jabir Bin Abdullah Ansari; and also Abu'l-Fazl Shaibani and he from Muhammad Bin Abdullah Bin Ibrahim Shafi'i, who reports Jabir Ansari (one of the chief companions of the Prophet) as saying: "Jundal Bin Junadab Bin Jubair, a Jew, came to the Holy Prophet and asked him about Tawhid. After hearing his reply, the man became a Muslim. He said that on the previous night he had seen Moses in a dream telling him: 'Embrace Islam at the hands of the last of the prophets, Muhammad, and attach yourself to the vicegerents after him.' He thanked Allah for the blessing of Islam. He then asked the Holy Prophet to tell him the names of his vicegerents. The Holy Prophet began by saying: 'My vicegerents are twelve in number.' ( I have explained a verse to you concerning this issue also.

 

The man said that he had seen this fact in the Torah. He asked the Prophet to tell him their names, and the Prophet said: 'The first of them is the chief of the vicegerents, the father of the Imams, Ali. Then follow his two sons - Hasan and Husain. You shall see these three. When you reach the last stage of your life, Imam Zainu'l-Abidin will be born, and the last thing that you have of this world shall be milk. So cling to them so that ignorance may not mislead you.'

 

The man said that he had seen in the Torah and in other scriptures the names of Ali, Hasan, and Husain as Elias, Shabbar, and Shabbir. He asked the Holy Prophet to tell him the names of the other Imams. 

 

Then the Holy Prophet named the remaining nine Imams with their epithets and added: 'The last of them, Muhammad Mahdi, will live, but disappear. He will appear later and will fill the world with justice and equity, since it will have degenerated into injustice and tyranny. Verily, Paradise is for those who show patience during the time of his occultation. Paradise is for those who are firm in their love for him. These are they whom Allah Almighty has praised in the Holy Qur'an and for whom the Holy Qur'an is a 'guide for those who guard (against evil). Those who believe in the unseen.' Also He says 'These are Allah's party: now surely the party of Allah are the successful ones.'" (58:22)

 

 

 


Statement:

Why do you go to the trouble of kissing their hands??? and showing so much respect to them???

 

This is a culture thing that is not very common among us the Shia & Sunni's. Also parts of Saudia Arabia, there are people

who kiss the foots of some of their Imams, do you not know of this? So I don't see yur point in trying to prove that we are being Radical.
Sometimes From love you have to someone Who you love to kiss their hands. Yet in Saudi Arabia, there are people who bow. So no 

point in what your trying to say.

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statement:

We believe that imam mahdi is not the son of imam Askari.
We believe he is from the AHLE BAYT (bloodline/family) of the prophet (s)

 

Reply: what your saying here makes no sense as you are trying to relate us to the prophet (pbuh) through Adam (as)Yet you in fact fail to understand the meaning of Ahlulbayt. Let me try and show you some proper arabic. 

As you know Ahlulbayt in Arabic is اهل البيت.

If look for example in the Arabic Dictionary you will find that the word:

 

The word: "اهل" which means:

 

Means people, group, At some points even a certain group for example the Ahl of Iraq, or the Ahl of Iran, Or for exmaple the Ahl of the linage of for example, Her or Him. but when does the Word Ahl "اهل" become specific or as you may call it, "Restricted"?. As we can see beside the Word "اهل" You can see ."البيت". Now what does ."البيت" mean in Arabic  It means House. For example the House of Ali, or the House of Ammar. Or for example the House of my Father, Etc. Now as you can see clearly, When we say "Ahlulbayt", (اهل البيت) This ow becomes "Households". And only now the "Ahl" (اهل) has become Specific and Restricted. Therefore when we Say Ahlulbayt Of Adam as you claimed than you are Referring to His Households. For example His Daughter, Son, Grandson, Cousin, that is "In" his House and lives In his house and a part of His linage. And When we look at the Ahadith, the prophet was referring to His "house", Where Imam Ali (s), Fatima (s), Hussain (s) and Hassan (s) that were in. And when the prophet said there will be 12 Imams After me from the Linage of His Grandson Hussain (s) and Even to the extent of mentioning their names (look at the Sahih Hadith I mentioned), then we find he Is referring to them as APART from his "Households" (Ahlulbayt). And the Mahdi (A.F) as the prophet (s) mentions, he is from the Ahlulbayt (s). Therefore my dear friend your argument is Incorrect.

 

 

Arabic Dictionary:

http://www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=%D8%A7%D9%87%D9%84

 


Statement:

Are we the AHLE BAYT of Adam a.s??? Are we not ALL his sons and daughters?? 

 

Reply: Look above you as I have given you a Clear Definition of Ahlulbayt. therefore You argument is incorrect due to

the Grammar of Arabic, as I have explained above. Thank you.

I find it rather funny how you say you do not defend any1 when your posts say otherwise
 

I never made a statement which Claims I have said: "Do no defend anyone." You make no sense

In your stance. And You Meant something else, than perhaps I have Misunderstood you due to your
Grammar and Punctuation in English. Forgive me if so is true. 

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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Statement:

I have a challenge for you. Surah 3:7
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] PRECISE - they are the FOUNDATION of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

imamat is FOUNDATION of islam according to shia so find me 1 PRECISE VERSE

 

 

Reply: As the verse states Which is the Quran is the Foundation and Of couse to believe in prophet Muhammad (pbuh). But by dear friend, When we say that "we" must believe in the Quran, then you must believe that Ali (as) is the Khalifa and that Allah has left in the Ummah to things, as the prophet (pbuh) mentioned on the sermon of the day Of Ghadir Khum, and the verse "I have completed your religion today.." came down, as we continue and the prophet (pbuh) said, " I leave in you two things (While holding Up Imam Ali's Hand) which if you hold on to them you will never go astray, the Book Of Allah, and My Ahlulbayt (as). and they are the Khalifas After me (as I mentioned the Hadith from Musanad Amad Ibn Hanbal, And Albani and in Al Ni'sai that are SAHIH and the chain is good). So these events are in the Quran No doubt. So If we believe in the Quran, than therefore you must believe in them. Also In addition for example Salat is on of the foundation of Islam, yet Allah does not mention How many Rokakt aor Sujjod, we must do exactly? But Allah only told us the times of Salat and that we should do Salat, but not the numbeor of Rokat. Also in Fasting in Ramadan, Allah as told us to fast in the Month of Ramadan, but did Allah tell us from which hour to what hour exact? or did he tell us the days of the month of Ramadan? yet these two foundations are mentioned in the verse that you stated so does that mean but just saying there is no God but God and Muhammad the prophet (s) is his messenger, and Believe in the the Quran, does that mean thats it? I Don't need to fast or pray?. So my dear friend your Argument is Invalid. because Allah has mentioned Salat and Fasting in other verses, as he has mentioned Immamah in other verses, although he has not told has how many Rokat to do in salat, or how many hours we are to fast in Ramdan, he has also no told us of the Exact names of the Imams that we should follow, but the prophet (pbuh) has told us how man rokat to do, how from when to when we must fast, how how much we have to pay zakat, or whom we should take and follow as our Imams.

  

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LEBSYEDA 87

Lol u actually crack me up, no man seriously you really do.

I like the way you keep returning to verses in the quran without fully grasping what you are going to say.

WELL DONE. Lol

Why isn't bibi zaynab a.s AHLE BAYT?? AHLE BAYT means people of the house. Just because she wasn't under the cloak doesn't means she is not AHLE BAYT. Were your 9 imams under the cloak?? No didn't think so.

You see you people make me laugh you have HIJACKED the word AHLE BAYT and tried to fool people into believing that the term AHLE BAYT was something what alien BEFORE islam.

The term AHLE BAYT was used among Arabs in the pre islamic days to refer to ones wife, kids, brothers, sisters, clan etc. AHLE BAYT is an Arabic phrase and not just an islamic one!!

Maybe just maybe you need to look into the word AHLE BAYT with a deep meaning.

Let me fill you in on something, do yourself a favour and go to an Arab and ask him what is AHLE BAYT and then say to him no no no only x y z are AHLE BAYT and look at the response you get. You will be laughed at, straight in the face.

1. Verse of purity only the prophet (pbuh) ali a.s imam hasan a.s imam Hussein a.s and bibi fatimah r.a are mentioned that's it. No mention of 9 imams. I like the way you point to quranic verse then very cunningly add AND OUR 9 IMAMS lol.

Firstly why only 9 imams?? what about the rest of imam zayn ul abudeen's a.s sons dayghters imam jafar a.s imam baqir a.s etc etc not AHLE BAYT?? Why only your 9 imams???

What do you think Ismaili shia call their imams?? AHLE BAYT yes, no??? What about zaydi, Bohari And all the other numerous shia who all say our imams are from AHLE BAYT.

So sorry you have failed to prove anything by using this verse.

I am not going to go into every verse because they do not say or refer to 9 imams.

2. Excuse me but I'M the waste of time?? Speaks the person who doesn't know what AHLE BAYT means!!

Hadith of the two weighty things.

So tell me 1 thing, when imam mahdi passes away will the second of the weighty things not be separated from the prophet when they meet at the fountain of abundance

I mean seriously what are you trying to do make me die through laughter.lol

You shia believe that the world will be destroyed if an imam is not present right?? Then enlighten me who was infalliable imam before ali a.s. If you say prophet (pbuh) then who was infalliable leader before prophet (pbuh)?? Yet the earth was not destroyed???

Let me tell you one thing more it is not ME but YOU who is making the joke regarding imam mahdi.

Right you say that it was an absolute must that infalliable imams should lead after prophet where as us SUNNIS say no.

We say we have quran and authentic hadith from prophet and deen was completed as the quranic verse says. So we can make do with a FALLIABLE leader and if we disagree with him we can do as we are told in verse 4:59 refer back to Allah (swt) and prophet (pbuh) ie; quran and authentic hadith.

Why do we need infalliable leader if deen was completed in prophet (pbuh) lifetime??

O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you DISAGREE over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.

Now shia say that it was a must for infalliables, but I ask you who is infalliable leader, leading us now??

You are being guided through the quran and hadith arnt you so why couldn't the early generations too??

If we are making do without infalliable then why couldn't the early generations??

Lol lol lol you are too funny seriously banu hashim has been changed to QURAISH???

What, seriously are you having a laugh?? No really??

SOURCES : Sahih al Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Volume 2, Pg 191

Sahih al-Tirmidhi Vol.2, Pg 45

Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol.5, Pg 106

Sunan Abu Dawud, Vol 2, Pg 207

That looks like a really good copy and paste lol. NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THE HADITH SAYS BANU HASHIM.

If you can refute me then please please please please please do and point me to your sources. Lol

50 sources???

You said:

There are about 50 sources to that quote and I'm not bothered to write them here.

Well I can't be bothered talking about them then.

3. You said:

Congratulations oh Ali, you have become my leader (mawla) and the leader of every faithful Muslim" ~ Umar

I see how you have interpreted the word maula to leader. Lol. When maula has many meanings.

If this verse was talking about leadership then why use the word maula which has multiple meanings and not the word imam etc. or any word which means leader??

5. Hadith of position.

Just what position would that be exactly?? If you don't mind me asking!!

PERMENANT or TEMPORARY??

Was harun a PERMENANT or TEMPORARY leader while musa a.s went for forty data??

Harun a.s died BEFORE musa a.s so how can this hadith mean PERMENANT successor

6. And...... So what?? we don't deny Allah (swt) and his prophet (pbuh) love ali a.s.

Abu bakr was the one who accompanied prophet from Makkah to madinah. Allah knew that abu bakr was a dear and trusted friend of prophet (pbuh) otherwise would Allah not have said don't take abu bakr with you??

What's more important accompanying prophet through a risky journey or being a flag bearer?? Not taking any credit of ali a.s but just trying to make a point.

We have many other hadith where other sahaba was praised by Allah(swt) and prophet (pbuh) so what's your point??

7. When you gave me this reference what does 5:36 actually mean?? Have you checked or just closed your eyes and started copy and pasting.

"The pleasure of Fatima is my pleasure, and her wrath and anger is my anger, and whoever loves my daughter Fatima loves me, and whoever pleases her, pleases me and whoever angers her angers me." Sahih al Bukhari (5:36) ?? What is this??

Your beliefs are not my believes, we believe abu bakr was right and fatimah a.s made a small mistake.

8. Lol your references are amazing:

You said:

Umar called Abu Huraira "the enemy of Allah and the enemy of the Book of Allah" (Source; Ibn al-Atheer, al bidayah w al nihaya, 8:116)

He also said "Most likely, because of the abundance of the hadith, you are lying about the Prophet" (Ibn Abil Hadid, SHARH NAHJ UL BALAGAH, 1:1360)

NOW, Abu Huraira narrated over 5,700 hadeeths. 446 are listed in Sahih al-Bukhari, yet somehow he only spent 3 years with the Prophet

Sahih Muslim says that Umar beat Abu Hurayra on occasion and quotes Abu Huraira as admitting that "I have narrated to you several traditions that had I narrated them during the time of Umar, Umar would have lashed me with a stick" .

So, we can conclude that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim in a sense are both "Sahih" yet somehow they contradict one another.

Hadith number one what on earth is 8:116 ??

Hadith number 2 is from SHARH nahj ul balagah. Which simply my friend translates to tafsir nahj ul balagah

Nahj ul balagah is a shia book my dear so You cannot use it against me!!

The rat you didn't even referencing, so it means nothing.

All the rest is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Statement:

I have a challenge for you. Surah 3:7

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] PRECISE - they are the FOUNDATION of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

imamat is FOUNDATION of islam according to shia so find me 1 PRECISE VERSE

Reply: As the verse states Which is the Quran is the Foundation and Of couse to believe in prophet Muhammad (pbuh). But by dear friend, When we say that "we" must believe in the Quran, then you must believe that Ali (as) is the Khalifa and that Allah has left in the Ummah to things, as the prophet (pbuh) mentioned on the sermon of the day Of Ghadir Khum, and the verse "I have completed your religion today.." came down, as we continue and the prophet (pbuh) said, " I leave in you two things (While holding Up Imam Ali's Hand) which if you hold on to them you will never go astray, the Book Of Allah, and My Ahlulbayt (as). and they are the Khalifas After me (as I mentioned the Hadith from Musanad Amad Ibn Hanbal, And Albani and in Al Ni'sai that are SAHIH and the chain is good). So these events are in the Quran No doubt. So If we believe in the Quran, than therefore you must believe in them. Also In addition for example Salat is on of the foundation of Islam, yet Allah does not mention How many Rokakt aor Sujjod, we must do exactly? But Allah only told us the times of Salat and that we should do Salat, but not the numbeor of Rokat. Also in Fasting in Ramadan, Allah as told us to fast in the Month of Ramadan, but did Allah tell us from which hour to what hour exact? or did he tell us the days of the month of Ramadan? yet these two foundations are mentioned in the verse that you stated so does that mean but just saying there is no God but God and Muhammad the prophet (s) is his messenger, and Believe in the the Quran, does that mean thats it? I Don't need to fast or pray?. So my dear friend your Argument is Invalid. because Allah has mentioned Salat and Fasting in other verses, as he has mentioned Immamah in other verses, although he has not told has how many Rokat to do in salat, or how many hours we are to fast in Ramdan, he has also no told us of the Exact names of the Imams that we should follow, but the prophet (pbuh) has told us how man rokat to do, how from when to when we must fast, how how much we have to pay zakat, or whom we should take and follow as our Imams.

I'm busy at da moment just about replied to LEBSYEDA 87 I will within 24 hours from now reply to you stay patient and keep checking For your reply on this thread inshallah Edited by Just the truth

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Statement: 

You have failed to understand friend. I've asked you 3 times this very same question f we are now being guided through the quran and hadith and not an infalliable then why did the earlier generations need an infalliable Yes quran is guide and I'm not a quranist Why do we need infalliables to lead us??

 

Reply: Do we not need the prophets (s) to lead us when 1400 years ago became the prophet? And Did not Prophet jesus (As) leave Imams for people to follow after his Death? as I have proved to you and I have also given you their names also in the Quran verse. People had to follow them and believe in them. Did no prophet Ibrahim become an Imam? As I have mentioned earlier in the verse? yet his Son became a prophet and he than existed in his time but Prophet Ibrahim was a prophet and then became an Imam. What about prophet Khudir (as)? after his concealment the people still had to believe in him, although he was gone and Unseen. And what about prophet Idris (as)? He was in concealment for two years? So how can people follow and believe in a prophet which they cannot see for 2 years? But don't you think he left instruction for his followers on how to pray or how continue believing? then this is Viseverse to the prophet Muhammad al Mustafa (pbuh) as he left the Quran and his Ahlulbayt. And we are to follow them, and the last of them are in Concealment which is Imam Mahdi (af). I made a post about Imam Mahdi For you and you did not reply dear friend.

     


Statement:

 

Do you not have any hadith on how prophet said pray salah and howl many rakahs how to pay zakat etc etc, if not then you should question why??

 

yes there are many hadith and how he use to pray shall I stated them. oyour Argument here makes no sense. I did not question anything. 
It seems you are trying to escape the Argument.

 

 

Statement:
If you have hadiths from prophet then why did we need infalliables to repeat the same again??

 

You don't make sense. I mentioned Hadith from the prophet (pbuh), and As I a said the Ahlulbayt are to be followed and most

of their sayings the sayings of the prophet (s). 

 

Statement.
Could the earlier generations not have done the same as US and follow authentic hadith from prophet??

 

people that existed after the death of the prophet Had many Hadiths on the prophet and Ahlulbayt.
People revise the 
previous page of this post. Wa Al Salam.

 

Statment:
Why did they need infalliables to repeat the same message again yet WE nowadays are all left with only authentic hadiths??

 

The Imams had no message, but to invite people to Islam. People look above you concerning this issue on the issue of Prophet Idris (as).


 

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Yes quran is guide and I'm not a quranist

Why do we need infalliables to lead us??

Do you not have any hadith on how prophet said pray salah and howl many rakahs how to pay zakat etc etc, if not then you should question why??

If you have hadiths from prophet then why did we need infalliables to repeat the same again??

Could the earlier generations not have done the same as US and follow authentic hadith from prophet??

Why did they need infalliables to repeat the same message again yet WE nowadays are all left with only authentic hadiths??

 

(bismillah)

 

1. I think the most logical answer to that, is how can we not need someone appointed by Allah to guide us. We need role models, we need leaders. We need someone to show us the true way of Allah's religion. Time does not go backwards, and with time comes changes and advances. We need someone to interpret these changes within the religion, ONLY by what Allah wants. The only way someone will know what Allah wants, is that who is chosen by Allah. Why do we need teachers? Why do we need directions? Why do we need maps? Why do we need doctors when we can do the surgery our selves? The person MUST be infallible because if he were to commit mistakes or sin, why would Allah choose him? Are you saying God is stupid for allowing to send someone who isnt guided himself to lead us? Please brother, use the hiqma Allah has given you. Lets not have frivolous talk here and senseless questions please.

 

 

2. Yes we do, but according to your school of thought, you havnt even proven which way of prayer is correct. You sunnis still dont have any proof for which is the ONLY correct way the prophet prayed. And your telling me we dont need imams? This is the sole reason why we need imams after the prophet! So the truth can be clear, so we know what is right and what is wrong. So we know what the prophet said is true. The prophets family is the only and best source for that, and especially that within them Allah has chosen as infallible imams.

 

 

3. Do you know how many years the prophet preached islam, after he announced his prophethood? Do you know how many wars and problems took place during his time? He barley had 10 years to preach islam, you think he taught us everything in that little time? Come on! Allah send 124000 till Islam was complete, you think the prophet will teach us everything that quick?  Not only that, but to each people is their own time, and time changes, as I explained above. Besides, its not just mere hadiths. Its ruling mankind, its leading and guiding mankind universally, its protecting Allah's religion. Its keeping Justice and Equity. Its upholding the banner of truth!

 

 

4. What do you mean could earlier generations do the same?  I have explained from my past post and this post about the flaws of only following quran. You sunnis have no fundamental argument, you resort to quranic arguments and shoot yourselves in the foot! I have disproved your quranic argument already.

 

 

5. Its not just hadiths, read my previous post and what I wrote above. Its not just the same message, its not just a message. Its a way of life, universal, abiding by time, at all times. Its leadership and guidance. Its protection. Its Huja of Allah.....

 

 

(wasalam)

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Well said lebsyeda87

 

Also consider this irony.

 

Four men, let's say they're each 40 years old for argument sake.

 

Three of them have the same agenda, whereas the fourth is an odd-ball.

 

The three decide that if they take control of this government and each elects the next after him, then by the time the second or third person is in control, the fourth will already be dead.

 

Which solves the problem of even having him be in control at all.

 

Let's say each person lives approximately 15 years after taking control...

 

A) 40 --> 55

B) 55 --> 70

C) 70 --> 85

 

Most people do not live this long, especially 1400 years ago.

 

Yet against the odds, all three of them died and made way for Ali who still took control anyways without having to force it.

 

This is like how Prince Charles has been waiting for the Queen to die so he can assume Kingship, but lol it isn't happening, and there are all of these other people in line waiting... It is so unlikely for someone even 20 years younger than the Queen to ever have the throne let alone the third or fourth in line for the throne... More likely they will all die before they get their turn and a very young perhaps unborn child gets the throne.

 

So do you really think that when Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman got together and were like "Abu Bakr will be first Caliph, then Omar, then Uthman... LOL then Ali... trololol" that they were ever expecting Omar, let alone Uthman, let alone Ali would take control of the Caliphate?

 

They didn't know the future, they didn't know that they would die in such an order.  It could have been that Omar died first, and then that would mean that the second caliph becomes Uthman... Or maybe Abu Bakr and Uthman die and then only Omar is the first Caliph and lives for 30 years and Ali dies and the second caliph becomes someone else entirely...

 

Clearly they didn't have this knowledge, so the motivation for them choosing this line was clearly to maintain power and stack all odds in their favor from ever having someone else gain power.

 

They couldn't just say "Ali you will never be caliph" because that would have started a major war worse than what already took place, since there were already the Shi'atu 'Ali in uproar over this tragedy that was the usurpation of the Caliphate from the Ulul Amr.  

 

So they decided they would say "Ali maybe in 200 years you can be Caliph, ok? lolol"

 

Thank You, and you know what else I realized? People have logic and they know the truth. They knew it at that time and they continue to know it now but they'd be too bored with their lives if they actually admitted it. Allah (SWT) has stoned their hearts. What a pity to humanity. 

 

 

 

 

 

Just The Truth:

 

You are not here to ask questions or to receive answers, you are here to manipulate words to your liking and then add an "LOL" for good measure, like you're even funny.

 

You ignored half the facts I posted up there, the ones that were an an inconvenience to you and what did you focus on? My way of citation. You're an imbecile and had you even gone to a proper university you would know what those numbers refer to. 

 

I don't copy and paste. Ever. Go try to find what I wrote off an internet site, you wont find squat, because I unlike some people know how to open a book. I'll tell you what? Next time I'll attach pictures, just for you. It'll be like a show and tell. I'll show you how to open a book and you can tell me how you still don't comprehend diddly squat.

 

The fact is however you choose to define "Ahlul Bayt", the Prophet only used it when referring to those 4 people, get over it. Again, however you choose to define the word "Mawla" the fact remains that the Prophet only used it when referring to Imam Ali and on various occasions. NEVER to Abu Bakr or Umar or Uthman or Aisha :) 

 

As for Fatima (AS), she does not make mistakes. As for her land obviously Uthman felt that Marwan, someone who was exiled by the Holy Prophet (PBUH), was in need of the charity.

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Thank You, and you know what else I realized? People have logic and they know the truth. They knew it at that time and they continue to know it now but they'd be too bored with their lives if they actually admitted it. Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì has stoned their hearts. What a pity to humanity. 

 

 

 

 

 

Just The Truth:

 

You are not here to ask questions or to receive answers, you are here to manipulate words to your liking and then add an "LOL" for good measure, like you're even funny.

 

You ignored half the facts I posted up there, the ones that were an an inconvenience to you and what did you focus on? My way of citation. You're an imbecile and had you even gone to a proper university you would know what those numbers refer to. 

 

I don't copy and paste. Ever. Go try to find what I wrote off an internet site, you wont find squat, because I unlike some people know how to open a book. I'll tell you what? Next time I'll attach pictures, just for you. It'll be like a show and tell. I'll show you how to open a book and you can tell me how you still don't comprehend diddly squat.

 

The fact is however you choose to define "Ahlul Bayt", the Prophet only used it when referring to those 4 people, get over it. Again, however you choose to define the word "Mawla" the fact remains that the Prophet only used it when referring to Imam Ali and on various occasions. NEVER to Abu Bakr or Umar or Uthman or Aisha :)

 

As for Fatima (as), she does not make mistakes. As for her land obviously Uthman felt that Marwan, someone who was exiled by the Holy Prophet (pbuh), was in need of the charity.

 

 

 

I gave him clear proof on Ahadith, Al though he has not made a proper reply.

Were still waiting. yes its a shame to see people that ignore the truth on account of their education.

 

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I gave him clear proof on Ahadith, Al though he has not made a proper reply.

Were still waiting. yes its a shame to see people that ignore the truth on account of their education.

 

 

He doesn't want proof. He just wants to type up ten lines of gibberish and act like he actually debated.

 

Like I said if the Prophet (PBUH) himself couldn't convince a bunch of stone hearts, surely we can't. 

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statement
Verse of purity only the prophet  (pbuh) ali a.s imam hasan a.s imam Hussein a.s and bibi fatimah r.a are mentioned that's it. No mention of 9 imams. I like the way you point to quranic verse then very cunningly add AND OUR 9 IMAMS lol. 
 
I would like a verse that shows me Abu Bakr and Uthman and Ummar Ibn Al khattam are Khalifas please.
Second of All Allah like I have explained no everything is mentioned in the Qruan. I gave you ahdaith on this issue and you did not

reply to them. Please revise. 

Statement:

2. Excuse me but I'M the waste of time?? Speaks the person who doesn't know what AHLE BAYT means!!

 
Explained it properly please look above. No reply yet? okay we are all waiting.
 
 
Statement:
You said: Congratulations oh Ali, you have become my leader (mawla) and the leader of every faithful Muslim" ~ Umar 

I see how you have interpreted the word maula to leader. Lol. When maula has many meanings. If this verse was talking about leadership then why use the word maula which has multiple meanings and not the word imam etc. or any word which means leader??

 
After that he said : "Allah, be against those who are against him," later he mentions hadith al Thaqlian and says he is the khalifa after me. Please refer to page 5-6 on this hadith as I have mentioned Earlier. your repeating question without rejecting what we give you. Fantastic debate really. 
 
Statement: 
 Hadith of position.
Just what position would that be exactly?? If you don't mind me asking!! PERMENANT or TEMPORARY?? Was harun a PERMENANT or TEMPORARY leader while musa a.s went for forty data?? Harun a.s died BEFORE musa a.s so how can this hadith mean PERMENANT successor

   
Reply: You did not read my response, and yet I asked for a reasonable rejection and you have provided me with nothing. Please refer to page 4 or 5 on the topic otherwise stop repeating the same Question unless you have a reasonable answer. 

 
 
Statement:
And...... So what?? we don't deny Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and his prophet  (pbuh) love ali a.s. Abu bakr was the one who accompanied prophet from Makkah to madinah. Allah knew that abu bakr was a dear and trusted friend of prophet  (pbuh)
 otherwise would Allah not have said don't take abu bakr with you??



Reply: No doubt Ali (as) is greater as he was raised in house of the prophet (pbuh). And on the stance of abu Bakr I'm sure you know of the crimes he did, when taking the khilafa on Saqifa prophet Imam Ali (as). I cannot believe this man Went to Saqifa rather than attend the Burial of the prophet, and not only that, but burn the house of Fatima and force Ali (as) into Ba'yiah. It is common for a person to become the subject of stern condemnation and ridicule if he fails to attend a friend or relatives funeral. It can lead to friendships ending and families becoming divided because we will all die one day and it is expected that those closely linked to the deceased will attend. Relatives frequently fly thousands of miles to reach a deceased loved one’s funeral. Compare this to men who were close associates of the Holy Prophet (saaws). Rather than remain close to him and participate in his funeral they departed from the very room where his body was laid to rest, entered the debate at Saqifa, never looking back, never asking for proceedings to be delayed until after the funeral, they preferred the lengthy discussion of who will lead the Ummah than the funeral of the Leader of mankind. We would ask our readers to spare some time to these points. Lest there remain any doubt over the events as described by us we will shall quote the words of the Hanafi scholar, Allamah Shibli Numani:
 
“It is apparently surprising that no sooner did the Prophet die than the struggle for Caliphate commenced and even the burial of the body of the Founder of Islam became a matter of secondary consideration in the quarrels that arose over the question of succession. Who can for a moment conceive the spectacle of the Prophet lying dead, while those who asserted their love and attachment towards him in his lifetime, without even waiting to look to his remains being suitably interred, were hurrying away to see that others did not secure the headship of the state for themselves!
 
It is still more surprising that this act is attributed to the persons (Abu Bakr and Omar) who are the brightest stars of the Islamic firmament and the unpleasantness of the act becomes still more poignant when it is remembered that those persons who were connected with the Prophet by ties of blood and kinsmanship (‘Ali and the Banu Hashim) were naturally affected by his death and the sad bereavement prostrated them with grief, which, coupled with their anxiety to perform the last offices to the dead, hardly left the room for ulterior considerations”.

 

Al Farooq, by Allamah Shibli Numani, translated by Maulana Zafar Ali Khan Vol 1 p 85-86

 

post-83202-0-41626700-1376575956_thumb.jpost-83202-0-21035800-1376575979_thumb.jpost-83202-0-92407300-1376575987_thumb.j

 

 

It is for this precise reason that in our first edition of this article we drew the following conclusion:

 

In the end what transpired at the Saqifa is astounding, even to the casual observer. Even Shibli Numani, a die-hard defender of the institution, has written of the event with much astonishment based upon his pre-suppositions of the character of those involved at the Saqifa.

 

Shibli was highlighting how the casual observer would view Saqifa, which is what we are stating. Naturally this comment sat uneasy with him so he sought to defend his client as best he could.

 

 

 


Statement:

We have many other hadith where other sahaba was praised by Allah(swt) and prophet  (pbuh) so what's your point??

 

There are many Hadith, Which the Sahbah show that they fought against the successor of the prophet Imam Ali (as)

In the War of Jamal anf Suffin. Whats your point?


Statement:

When you gave me this reference what does 5:36 actually mean?? Have you checked or just closed your eyes and started copy and pasting.
"The pleasure of Fatima is my pleasure, and her wrath and anger is my anger, and whoever loves my daughter Fatima loves me, and whoever pleases her, pleases me and whoever angers her angers me." Sahih al Bukhari (5:36) ?? What is this?? Your beliefs are not my believes, we believe abu bakr was right and fatimah a.s made a small mistake.

 

Okay dear friend, Bukhari is one of the most Authentic books in Sunni school. Do you want me to Rant about this as well.
Second of all this shows the position of Abu Bakr when attacking the house of Fatima. Which you will never accept, even

if the books was laid in front of you. Thanks in your book. Yoru belief.

 
 


Waiting for a reply.....yet......no answer.

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statement

Verse of purity only the prophet (pbuh) ali a.s imam hasan a.s imam Hussein a.s and bibi fatimah r.a are mentioned that's it. No mention of 9 imams. I like the way you point to quranic verse then very cunningly add AND OUR 9 IMAMS lol.

I would like a verse that shows me Abu Bakr and Uthman and Ummar Ibn Al khattam are Khalifas please.

Second of All Allah like I have explained no everything is mentioned in the Qruan. I gave you ahdaith on this issue and you did not

reply to them. Please revise.

Statement:

2. Excuse me but I'M the waste of time?? Speaks the person who doesn't know what AHLE BAYT means!!

Explained it properly please look above. No reply yet? okay we are all waiting.

Statement:

You said: Congratulations oh Ali, you have become my leader (mawla) and the leader of every faithful Muslim" ~ Umar

I see how you have interpreted the word maula to leader. Lol. When maula has many meanings. If this verse was talking about leadership then why use the word maula which has multiple meanings and not the word imam etc. or any word which means leader??

After that he said : "Allah, be against those who are against him," later he mentions hadith al Thaqlian and says he is the khalifa after me. Please refer to page 5-6 on this hadith as I have mentioned Earlier. your repeating question without rejecting what we give you. Fantastic debate really.

Statement:

Hadith of position.

Just what position would that be exactly?? If you don't mind me asking!! PERMENANT or TEMPORARY?? Was harun a PERMENANT or TEMPORARY leader while musa a.s went for forty data?? Harun a.s died BEFORE musa a.s so how can this hadith mean PERMENANT successor

Reply: You did not read my response, and yet I asked for a reasonable rejection and you have provided me with nothing. Please refer to page 4 or 5 on the topic otherwise stop repeating the same Question unless you have a reasonable answer.

Statement:

And...... So what?? we don't deny Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and his prophet (pbuh) love ali a.s. Abu bakr was the one who accompanied prophet from Makkah to madinah. Allah knew that abu bakr was a dear and trusted friend of prophet (pbuh) otherwise would Allah not have said don't take abu bakr with you??

Reply: No doubt Ali (as) is greater as he was raised in house of the prophet (pbuh). And on the stance of abu Bakr I'm sure you know of the crimes he did, when taking the khilafa on Saqifa prophet Imam Ali (as). I cannot believe this man Went to Saqifa rather than attend the Burial of the prophet, and not only that, but burn the house of Fatima and force Ali (as) into Ba'yiah. It is common for a person to become the subject of stern condemnation and ridicule if he fails to attend a friend or relatives funeral. It can lead to friendships ending and families becoming divided because we will all die one day and it is expected that those closely linked to the deceased will attend. Relatives frequently fly thousands of miles to reach a deceased loved one’s funeral. Compare this to men who were close associates of the Holy Prophet (saaws). Rather than remain close to him and participate in his funeral they departed from the very room where his body was laid to rest, entered the debate at Saqifa, never looking back, never asking for proceedings to be delayed until after the funeral, they preferred the lengthy discussion of who will lead the Ummah than the funeral of the Leader of mankind. We would ask our readers to spare some time to these points. Lest there remain any doubt over the events as described by us we will shall quote the words of the Hanafi scholar, Allamah Shibli Numani:

“It is apparently surprising that no sooner did the Prophet die than the struggle for Caliphate commenced and even the burial of the body of the Founder of Islam became a matter of secondary consideration in the quarrels that arose over the question of succession. Who can for a moment conceive the spectacle of the Prophet lying dead, while those who asserted their love and attachment towards him in his lifetime, without even waiting to look to his remains being suitably interred, were hurrying away to see that others did not secure the headship of the state for themselves!

It is still more surprising that this act is attributed to the persons (Abu Bakr and Omar) who are the brightest stars of the Islamic firmament and the unpleasantness of the act becomes still more poignant when it is remembered that those persons who were connected with the Prophet by ties of blood and kinsmanship (‘Ali and the Banu Hashim) were naturally affected by his death and the sad bereavement prostrated them with grief, which, coupled with their anxiety to perform the last offices to the dead, hardly left the room for ulterior considerations”.

Al Farooq, by Allamah Shibli Numani, translated by Maulana Zafar Ali Khan Vol 1 p 85-86

rsz_al_farooq_v1_p85-86.jpg rsz_1rsz_1al_farooq_v1_p85-86.jpg rsz_2al_farooq_v1_p85-86.jpg

It is for this precise reason that in our first edition of this article we drew the following conclusion:

In the end what transpired at the Saqifa is astounding, even to the casual observer. Even Shibli Numani, a die-hard defender of the institution, has written of the event with much astonishment based upon his pre-suppositions of the character of those involved at the Saqifa.

Shibli was highlighting how the casual observer would view Saqifa, which is what we are stating. Naturally this comment sat uneasy with him so he sought to defend his client as best he could.

Statement:

We have many other hadith where other sahaba was praised by Allah(swt) and prophet (pbuh) so what's your point??

There are many Hadith, Which the Sahbah show that they fought against the successor of the prophet Imam Ali (as)

In the War of Jamal anf Suffin. Whats your point?

Statement:

When you gave me this reference what does 5:36 actually mean?? Have you checked or just closed your eyes and started copy and pasting.

"The pleasure of Fatima is my pleasure, and her wrath and anger is my anger, and whoever loves my daughter Fatima loves me, and whoever pleases her, pleases me and whoever angers her angers me." Sahih al Bukhari (5:36) ?? What is this?? Your beliefs are not my believes, we believe abu bakr was right and fatimah a.s made a small mistake.

Okay dear friend, Bukhari is one of the most Authentic books in Sunni school. Do you want me to Rant about this as well.

Second of all this shows the position of Abu Bakr when attacking the house of Fatima. Which you will never accept, even

if the books was laid in front of you. Thanks in your book. Yoru belief.

Waiting for a reply.....yet......no answer.

Firstly I said I will reply within 24 hours and I have so jus chill and don't get all excited by writing

Waiting for a reply.....yet......no answer.

1. On a serious note I don't know why you use the verse of purification to prove anything. Verse of purification does NOT mention anything on your other 9 imams.

So if you use quranic evidence then there is no mention of other 9 imams

Also I've asked you 3 times WHY was fatimah infalliable ?? You have totally ignored this.

Can you point to a hadith from shia books regarding hadith of the cloak. I'm not saying you don't have 1 but can I see it and if yes then where??

Get me a hadith regarding hadith of cloak from shia books then I will answer you

2. Again tell me why only your imams are AHLE BAYT?? Do you know that other sects of shia also claim that there imams are AHLE BAYT!! Who shall we believe?? You have to prove to everyone including other shia sects that your imams are the appointed ones, otherwise you don't have a leg to stand on.

The quran is the book that unites all Muslims so can you prove that your imams are appointed and not theirs from quran??

Surely if imamat is sooooo important it should be in the quran.

Every usul ad din and furu ad din is in quran so we first go to quran and check if the usul ad din is there then if it is we can then go to hadith, yet when it comes to Imamate you jump straight onto the hadith wagon, what are you people hadithists??

3. Regarding kissing hands I wasn't saying you are radical it. I only wanted to show to you that they are the prophets family that's why we do it, it wasn't a question it was just something for you to think a out.

4. Yea... (Yawning) back to AHLE BAYT I see.

Firstly prove that your 9 imams are also from AHLE BAYT, surely if they were so important even more important than salah they should have been mentioned atleast once??

5. Yea and again.... (Yawning) AHLE BAYT.

Prove to me your other 9 imams are from AHLE BAYT

6. Quran surah 3:7

I see how you skip the quran and jump straight to hadith.

Do you not find it rather funny that Allah mentioned all other usul ad din and furu ad din(s) in quran precisely like the verse says yet not Imamate, Imamate which is the very thing that splits us.

Why only when it comes to Imamate you jump straight to hadith.

Find me a PRECISE verse in quran like all the other usul ad din(s) and furu ad din(s).

5. We are not mentioning prophet here we all know that the prophet needed to come to give us quran and guidance.

Now answer me this when Allah says in the quran that deen is completed why do we need infalliable imams??

Bring the hadith of the cloak from your books so I can explain something to you.

6. You've obviously misunderstood what I meant when I was asking you do you have any hadith from prophet (pbuh).

What I meant was if you have authentic hadith from prophet then why can't falliables read it themselves like us nowadays?? Why did they need infalliables to read to them when they could read themselves??? You read it yourself don't you, or is their an infalliable interpretations to you??

7. You still don't understand and I don't think you ever will.

I'm asking you WHY WHY WHY did we need infalliables to read to us if we US nowadays can read then ourselves??

But first get me a precise verse from quran before you jump on the hadith wagon.

Also you still have to prove to me your imams and not any other shia sect imams are the right ones

8. If you have hadiths from prophet which you follow to this day then why did you need infalliables only for the earlier generations.

Are you trying to imply prophet never completed his mission??

9. If imams had nothing new and only invited to islam then why on earth do you need infalliables to invite to islam?? Look nowadays all Muslims give non Muslims dawah to call them to islam why did we need infalliables to do this??

10. Firstly my friend caliphate is NOT usul ad din or furu ad din. So don't twist it on me, Imamate is usul ad du the foundation of Islam so where is it in quran

Why when only it comes to Imamate we have to jump straight at hadith.

11. Prove to me that only your imams are AHLE BAYT and not other sects

12. Regarding that hadith you pointed out on two khalifas I told you I can't find it so please could you point me to your source, yet you totally ignored. WELL DONE.

I can't see it in that book.

13. In your answer you mentioned quranic verses and your own opinion I refuted the quranic verses you pointed at which automatically mulled your opinion, so what's your problem??

14. Your answer regarding abu bakr is some what.... Ridiculous. Abu bakr did attend when prophet (p uh)was being buried and only went to saqifa when prophet (pbuh) was not buried yet. How long do you think they were at saqifa?? 3 decades??

He went saqifa and came back before the burial.

Regarding the book on umar go and wave it in some wahabbis face the guy who wrote it was a wahabbi so his book means jack all do me.

Regarding burning house I told you they are ALL fabricated unless you can prove otherwise SO GET OVER IT.

You actually believe everybody who fought against ali are in he'll and everybody who fought with him are in paradise??

Get real friend they will all be judged according to their intentions.

Where in bukhari does it tell you abu bakr ATTACKED fatimah house??

And maybe since you're so clever you can tell me what 5:36 means??

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(bismillah)

 

Dear, JUSTTHETRUTH, I hope that your knowledgeable that you have refuted me without proof. after stating proof after proof after proof from Authentic sources which you seem to refuse most often on this forum, that is why most of us have not reached a conclusion with your sect. Sad to see you use such poor language as some of us have found it at its most intimidating and offensives, when having a debate one must understand to respect the opinion of others and refute them by their stance and not repeat the same Question without objecting to the statement of the opposition, I have respected you throughout this whole topic, and I wish you would do the same, and use proper language so that we may be able to reach to a consensus. Your questioning me (and others) which out going back to what we have given you, and Inshalla this will be my last reply. if you have an acceptable objection to such that is stated please refer back to the previous post to analyze what has been laid on the debate spectrum (Rather an Argument due to your replies). At any case the Hadith Al kisa is will know both in Sunni and Shia books. I find it amazing you yet question it, and with that your ignore the posstion of Ahlulbayt. I hope of this post you will take my evidences into account. Hadeeth-e-Kisa is that gracious description, which is a Tradition too and a description and an event too, a description of excellence also and a reason of prosperity too – Who is among the believers not aware of the words or meaning of this gracious Hadeeth, this is the Hadeeth healing the ill, the medium of fulfilling the desires of the desirous, supporting the helpless person engulfed in calamities – Just as this fact has also been mentioned itself in it that, by reciting it the mercy of Allah descends, and angels come and are busy asking for forgiveness – If recited before an owner of insight then better and spacious conditions are attained, if recited before a needy person then his needs are fulfilled, and since hundreds of years the believers are deriving the benefits of it’s graces, and why should it not be? It is a recital of the owners of infallibility and purity, a mention of Siddiqa-e-Tahera (s.a.w.a), a commentary of the Holy Qur’an, an event of the assembly of Allah’s lights, amazement and hope for the dwellers of Allah’s throne and the greatness and excellence for the best of humans and it’s pure roots – If, in presence of these specialties if grace, prosperity and mercy does not descend then when?

 

As per it’s authenticity, Hadeeth-e-Kisa is highly reliable, whose authenticity has been traced by a great honourable Scholar of Bahrain, Sheikh Abdullah Bahrani in his book Awaalim and he saw it written by the pen of Sheikh Jaleel Sayyid Hashim Bahrani – He from Sheikhul Hadeeth Sayyid Majid Bahrani (r.a.), he from Sheikh Hasan ibne Zaynuddin, he from Sheikh Muqaddas Ardbaili (r.a.) he from Sheikh Ali ibne Abdul aalaa al Karki (r.a.), he from Ali ibne Hilal al Jazaaeri, he from Ahmad ibne Fahdal Hilli (r.a.), he from Ali ibne Khazanal Haaeri (r.a.), he from Sheikh Ziauddin Ali ibne Shaheedal Awwal (r.a.), he from Shaheede Awwal (r.a.), he from Fakhrul Muttaqeen (r.a.), he from his revered father Allamah Hilli (r.a.), he from his elder Mohaqqiqe Hilli (r.a.), he from his elder ibne Numma Hilli (r.a.), he from his Sheikh Mohammad ibne Idris Hilli (r.a.), he from ibne Hamza Toosi (r.a.) author of Thaqibul Manaaqib, he from Allamah Mohammad ibne Shahr Aashob (r.a.), he from Allamah Tabrasi (r.a.) author of Ihtejaaj, he from Sheikh Jaleel Hasan ibne Mohammad ibnal Hasanal Toose, he from his revered father Sheikhut Taaif (r.a.), he from his teacher Sheikh Mufiid (r.a.) he from Sheikh ibne Qawliya-e-Qummi (r.a.), he from Sheikh Kulayni (r.a.), he from Ali ibne Ibrahiim (r.a.), he from Ibrahim ibne Hashim (r.a.), he from Ahmad ibne Mohammad ibne Abi Nasral Bazanti (r.a.), he from Qasim ibne Yahya al Jila al Kufi (r.a.), he from Abu Baseer (r.a.), he from Aabaan ibne Taghlab (r.a.), he from Jabir ibne Yazid, he from Jabir ibne Abdullah Ansari and he heard from Siddiqa-e-Tahera (s.a.) that……

 

Due to the unawareness of this authenticity looking at the starting words roveya an Fatemahtiz Zahra of the narration, objected that, this narration is weak, it’s narrator is not known, and a narration starting with a passive text cannot be relied upon, whereas surely it is not so – Roveya has been used as a brevity or for a honour, otherwise a chain of authenticity is present for the narration, and for it one after another great honourable, authenticating, and reliable scholars’ names are mentioned, after which there remains no place for any doubt or suspicion.

A copy of this Hadeeth has been entered in the book of Allamah Sheikh Mohammad Taqi ibne Mohammad Baqir Yazdi Bafqi, which he has directly traced from Awaalim, and has quoted that, this Hadeeth is present in the book Awaalim, which is in more than 70 volumes, and is secure in the library of Hujjatul Islam Aaqae Mirza Sulayman in Yazd – 11th volume is regarding the events of Siddiqa-e-Tahera (s.a.), and in this itself this noble Hadeeth is found.

Allamah Sheikh Mohammad Saduqi Yazdi (r.a.), quotes that this Hadeeth is quoted in the annotation of Awaalim – But, is, by all means, present in the original book.
The second copy is of the author of Majma-ul-Bahrain, Allama Jaleel Sheikh Fakhruddin Mohammadal Turaehi, which is generally concurrent in our countries, and from this angel there is a distinctive difference in both of them, as in this copy there is no reply along with the Salaam (salutations), whereas in the copy of Awaalim the salaam and it’s reply both are present. Other than this in the copy of Awaalim some other additions are also there, which are not mentioned in Muntakhabe Turaehi. Allamah Delmi (r.a.) too in his book Ghurarud Durar has quoted this Hadeeth, and Allamah Sheikh Mohammad Jawad ar Razi has also mentioned in his book Noorul Aafaaq, and from his quotation it is clear that this Hadeeth is in the 11th volume of Awaalim also and in the 13th volume also. Any way regarding the differences in expressions, it is necessary to hint at some of the specialities, so that the investigators can benefit from these points, and the believers gain from their achievements.

 

1. In the copy of Awaalim, the reply of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.) for the salaam of everyone coming under the blanket (Kisa) is quoted, which is exactly according to the commands of Islam – And in those copies in which the reply of salaam is not found, is only due to brevity or these scholars have not deemed it as a salaam of benediction, whose reply is obligatory.

2. In the copy of Awaalim, the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) has mentioned some additions after every salaam, as per the rules of Islam – For example, for Imam Hasan (a.s.) He replied, Waladee wa saaheba Hawzee, for Imam Husayn (a.s.) Waladee wa shaafe’e ummatee, and for Ali (a.s.) Khalifatee wa saahebal Vaa’a, on which the intellectuals can put more light.

3. In the copy of Awaalim after the collection of all (Panjetan paak) these remarks of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) is also quoted: “O! Lord these are my Ahle Bayt and are my specials, their flesh is my flesh, their blood is my blood, whoever troubles them I am troubled by if, whoever pains them I am pained by it, whoever fights with them I fight with them, and whoever compromises with them I compromise with them, whoever is their enemy is also my enemy, and a friend of them is my friend, they are from me and I am from them, O! Lord please do make Your greetings, mercy and grace and forgiveness and Your will, a part of their state, and keep away from them all the defects and declare their Purity”.

These words are not found in common copies, whence in it is founds the complete series of virtues and excellences.

 

4. In the copy of Awaalim along with Falakan, Tasree is quoted, whereas in other copies, Yasree and Tasree both are quoted. The word Fulk is singular and plural both.
5. In the last part of the Hadeeth, Awaalim quotes “We rabbil K’abate” as stated by the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) after both of his mentions, whereas in other copies it is quoted once only.
In Hadeeth-e-Kisa, such spiritual virtues of Aale Mohammad (a.s.) are found that a person goes on penetrating in them and experiences the ecstasy on their spirituality, and goes on swinging on the eloquence of Siddiqa-e-Tahera (s.a.) – Some parts of this fact has already hinted at initially, and some are hinted now:

 

The Holy Prophet has not mentioned illness but has mentioned of weakness, and it is quite apparent that the healing of weakness is different from curing illness.
The Holy Prophet’s weakness is related to body, and not the constitution, and an eloquent difference is found in this, as in the constitution head is also included – But a body is excluding the head, which means that the weakness (mentioned) cannot be related to head and brain.

 

The Ahle Bayt have been as members of the house, for Prophethood, and have been deemed a mine for Messengership, which clearly means that not the house members of the Prophet, but a family of Prophethood, and Allah’s message will be achieved by us from them only.

 

For the assembly, the word “Shi’a” and “Devotee” both are used, which are well distinguished as per belief (Aqeedah) and deeds (Amal).
In declaring of the “Successful” the promise of the Lord of Ka’bah is mentioned, the example of which is also found in the last moments of the master of the universe.
Lastly it is necessary to make this clear that, in izaa wajhohoo yatalaa laa the word is izaa and not izan – The word izan is used in the last part of the Hadeeth, the difference of which can be orderly sensed by the owners of intellect and literature.

 

Allaahumma J’alna minhum wah shuma Mohammadinw Wa allehit Taahereen.

AAYAT – E – TAT-HEER (Quran 33:33)" Verily Allah's desire is to remove blemish from you, O People of Household (Ahlul-Bayt) and purify you with a perfect purification"
There is no place for any doubt or suspicion in this matter for the rightful persons that, the verse of Tat-heer is descended in the glory of the pure Ahle Bayt (a.s.) (Panjetane 5 Paak-pure) declaring their purity and infallibility – And there is no place in this noble verse for any other lady other these five noble ones – Neither it is related to the wives of the Prophet (s.a.w.a), and nor with the companions of the Messenger (s.a.w.a) – The Shi’a and Sunni Scholars both are unanimous over this fact, and except for some prejudiced no other denies it – On contrary some scholars of the Ahle Sunnat have mentioned such facts and informations regarding this verse, which serves as an eye-opener, and it is therefore judged that knowledge of truth is not a heritage of any one person or association, to whomsoever Allah graces and with whomsoever justice goes along, he can be aware with the realities and then can denominate those realities. Hereunder is mentioned the achievement of one or two great honourable scholars amongst the scholars of Islam.

 

A personality, amongst one of the great investigators of the twentieth century, is that of Allamah Sayyid Alavi al Huda al Alavi al Hazrami al Jaavi ash Shaafi, has written a book “Al qawlul Fasl fee mal Bani Hashim wa Qureish minal fazl” and has prescribed such virtues of Ahle Bayt (a.s.) that a person remains amazed, and after this has also mentioned the prevailing impiety in Islamic world, injustice and irreligiousness, as, how the Islamic Scholars have deemed the narrations reliable and unreliable, as per their wishes, and how did they unsuccessfully try to put curtains on the virtues of Ahle Bayt (a.s.).

 

Replying to the answers of some of the prejudiced persons, the noted Allamah writes in the volume 2, page 162 of his book that, Hadeeth-e-Kisa is absolutely correct, and the revelation of the verse of Tat-heer is seen in Sahih Muslim, Sahih Tirmizi, Musnad Ahmad, Mustadrak Hakim, and Sunan Baheeqi and ibne Haban, author of M’ojame Kabeer, Tabari, Nisaai, Tafseer ibne Katheer, ibne Manzar, ibne Abi Hatim, ibne Mardvaiyya, Khateeb ibne Abi Shayba, Tayalsi etc., too hae done the extractions of this Hadeeth.

Deeming it correct are the great honourable scholars of Ahle Sunnat like, Muslim, ibne Abi Hatim, Saleh ibne Mohammad Asadi, ibne Shaheen, Hafiz Ahmad ibne Saleh Misri Hakim, Baheeqi, Hafiz ibne Hajar, ibne Abdul Birr, ibne Taymiya, Sakhavi, Qastalaant, Kamaal, Zarqani, Samhudi, Shawkani – And among the Shi’a scholar all have deemed it correct and reliable, after which there remains no place for doubt and suspicion.

Other than this, among the narrators of this Hadeeth, are 15 companions of the Messenger (s.a.w.a) too, Hazrat Ali (a.s.) Hazrat Hasan (a.s.) Hazrat Husayn (a.s.) Hazrat Abdullah ibne J’afar, ibne Abbas, Umme Salma, Aayesha, S’ad ibne Abi Waqqas, Anas ibne Malik, Abu Saeed Khudri, ibne Mas’ood, Muaqqal ibne Yasar, Wathela ibne Asq’a, Umro ibne Abi Salma, Abul Hamra etc. After this the noted Allama, has traced this quotation from the Shafe’I Scholars while putting more light on the guidance and meaning of the verse that, the gracious verse is a proof of this matter that the pure Ahle Bayt (a.s.) are the fountainhead of virtues and excellences, and excluding them wherever excellences are found, is all their alms and pretext, just like a slave shares the destination with his master – They were the preferred by the Prophet of Islam, heir, Caliph and are the equals and equivocal of the Holy Qur’an – No one is a part and partner of them in their virtues, the like of their honour was neither achieved by Aale Abbas nor Aale Ja’far – On the contrary even among the children of Ali (a.s.) other than the children of Fatemah no one has attained this honour and excellence. That is why when Allamah Baheeqi stated the narration about Wathela ibne Asq’a that Anta min Ahlee then explained it’s matter that, Wathela has been enjoined with Ahle Bayt (a.s.), which in itself is a best proof of an accomplishing honour and excellence of Ahle Bayt (a.s.).

 

After this the noted Allamah has quoted a detailed investigation, referring Allamah Samhudi about the meaning and sense of the verse, the summary of which is that nearly 15 specialities are found in the verse, and every speciality is a separate proof of the greatness and virtues of Ahle Bayt (a.s.).

 

1. The verse is started with the word innama, which itself means that Allah has based His wish in their purity, and this a best proof of their being a fountainhead of piety and graces.
2. The Lord of the worlds has made this arrangement only to state their virtues, except this nowhere (in the Qur’an) this arrangement is to be seen.
3. By mentioning the origin of purity (Tat-heer) additional emphasis has been created in the subject.

4. Using Tat-heeran, as an indefinite article, it has been exhibited that this purity is a special kind of a great purity which cannot be compared to the common purities.
5. The Prophet (s.a.w.a) addressing them as Ahle Bayt (a.s.) and supplicate for purity is a sign that along with the wish of Allah the claim of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) is also functioning, and all are worried about the propagation of the virtues of Ahle Bayt (a.s.).

 

6. As per the narration of Abu Saeed Khudri, the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) too is a participant in the verse, which is an additional proof of the greatness of Ahle Bayt (a.s.).
7. The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) has supplicated for the grace, mercy and peace and forgiveness for the Ahle Bayt (a.s.) which is the proof that these very souls are the owners of purity, other wise no other is entitled for these supplications.

8. In every supplication the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) has kept himself also a participant in it, so that by this the honour of equality of the Ahle Bayt (a.s.) be adjudged too.
9. The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) has also mentioned the descendance of mercy on Janabe Ibrahim a.s. in the supplication, which is the proof of Ahle Bayt a.s. being the heirs and of equal rank of Ibrahim (a.s.).

10. The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) praying for peace is a proof that Ahle Bayt (a.s.) are entitled for peace (Salawaat) because the supplication of the Prophet (s.a.w.a) is not rejected.
11. Innahum minni wa anaa minhum is a hint that Ahle Bayt (a.s.) are the partners of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) in all the ranks of virtues and excellences.
12. Wishing for purity and the disappearance of defects, is a separate proof that Ahle Bayt (a.s.) are completely secure from the fire of Hell in the Hereafter.
13. To come and salute everyday on the door of Zahra (s.a.w.a) is a hint that, whose rank and position is high, their character also should be higher, and Ahle Bayt (a.s.) are as such.
14. The mention of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) in the Hadeeth, of himself that, Allah has kept me in a best family, is itself a proof of the Ahle Bayt (a.s.) being best persons.
15. He has, by declaring the purity and equality in excellences made this also clear that, alms are prohibited for Ahle Bayt (a.s.), because alms is dirt of hands and a kind of unclean wealth which is not according to the glory of the beholders of purity.

 

After this the noted Allamah has quoted this mention of some investigators too that, even if in Ahle Bayt (a.s.) the house and the household all enjoin, but in general application the dwelling householders are not encounted, but only the family members are counted, who always live along with the family, the dwellers can at any time separate themselves from the house – A wife after divorce goes to her own or another husband’s house and mingles in their household, she cannot participate in the Ahle Bayt.

 

The Holy Qur’an has addressed the wives as Yaa nisaa an Nabiyy, which means it has ascribed them to the Prophet, and has not mentioned their comparison to Ahle Bayt (a.s.) which itself means that Ahle Bayt (a.s.) are something else and wives something else – The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) is not a participant with the wives and in Ahle Bayt (a.s.) the Prophet (s.a.w.a) has also participated himself.

In the verse of purity the word Bayt is singular, and is not wives of Ahle Bayt but Ahle Buyoot, meaning of different houses, and Alif and Laam has been enjoined to Bayt, from which it is known that it is some special house.

 

By mentioning Umme Salamah as Alaa Khayr, and keeping her away from the holy blanket (Kisa) is a proof, that in the verse of purity there is no place for wives, and it has been revealed only for the declaration of the greatness, infallibility, purity and glory of the Panjatan-e-Paak (a.s.).     

 

 

no indisputable fact of Islam remained certain, and at every place the faithfuls of the government created doubts – And who is ignorant of it that, Aayat-e-Tat-heer, is in the glory of the pure Ahle Bayt (a.s.), and by Ahle Bayt it means the five noble souls – But in the olden and modern times such persons are, by all means born whose function is to suspect in realities and to devote the certainties of Islam at the alter of doubts – They wanted to take the help the matter of before and after part of the verse and connect it to the wives of the Prophet (s.a.w.a), and in the meantime have confessed this also that, the circle of Ahle Bayt (a.s.) is far more expansive than wives, and in it there is also a place for Hazrat Ali, Janab-e-Fatemah, Hasan and Husayn (a.s.). As after which such a group was born which eliminated this possibility too, and in his crude ideas established the proofs that the application of Ahle Bayt cannot be to the infallible, by it is meant only the wives of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a) – And prepared one or two narrations also in which the narrators have tried to relate the Ahle Bayt to wives, and have overlooked all those Traditions against this, in which a complete explanation or Ahle Bayt was present, and the names of the infallible were quoted, and after which there was no place for doubt and suspicion, on the contrary stopping Umme Salamah itself was a proof that, wives are not a part of it – Anyway, it is the impertinence of times, as the wife of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a), who tried to enter was stopped by the Messenger (s.a.w.a), and the mark or sign of the one who was not even present at this moment, was made a participant of the verse from the unknown.
Now, for a study, the references of Ahmad ibne Hambal and his contemporary or the later authentic scholars of Ahle Sunnat are being quoted, who have mentioned Hazrat Ali, Fatemah, Hasan, Husayn (a.s.) name by name and the revelation of the verse in their glory and after which there remains no place for any doubt or refutation:

Hafiz Abu Dawood al Teyasi Sulayman ibne Dawood ibne Jaroodal Basri, author of the book Musnad vol.8 page 274, published Hyderabad.
Allamah Hafiz Abu Abdullah Ahmad ibne Mohammad Ibne Hambal Shaybani, author of Musnad, vol 1, page 331, published at Cairo
Hafiz Mohammad ibne Eisa Tirmizi, author of Sahih Tirmizi, as traced by ibne Hajar.
Hafiz Mohammad ibne Usman ibne Abi Shayba Kufi, author of Musnad, ref. of Falakun Najaat, page 43.
Allamah Abu Abdir Rehman Ahmad ibne Sho’aybun Nisaai, author of Khasaais, p.4.
Hafiz Mohammad ibne Jurayr Tabari, author of Tafseer, vol.22, p.5. printed in Egypt.
Hafiz Abdur Rehman ibne Abi Hatim Mohammadar Razi, ref. of Falakun Najaat.
Sulayman ibne Ahmad ibne Ayyub Tabrani, author of M’ojam, ref. of Sawaaiq.
Allamah Jasaas. Author of Ehkamul Qur’an.

10. Hafiz Hakim Abu Abdillah Mohammad ibne Abdullah Neshapoori, athor of Mustadrak.
Vol.2,p.416.v.3,p.146.v.3,p.159.v.3,p.172.
11.     Allamah Mohaddis Ahmad ibnal Husayn ibne Haroonal Muwayd billah, author of Amali page 23.
12.     Hafiz Ahmad ibnil Husayn ibnal Ali al Bahiqi, author Sunan Kubra, v.2, p.149.
13.     Allamah Hafiz Abu Bakr Ahmad ibne Ali Thabital Khateebal Baghdadi. Author of Tareekhal Baghdad, vol.10.
14.     Allamah Hafiz Abu Umro Yusuf ibne Abdullah ibne Mohd. ibne Abdul Birral Andesi, author of Isti’ab vol.2, p.460.
15.     Allamah Mohaddis Sheikh Abdul Hasan Ali ibne Ahmadal wahidi Neshapoori, author of Asbabun Nuzool, page.267.
16.     Hafiz Delmi, author of Kitab Firdaws, refered by Sawaaiq.
17.     Hafiz Husayn ibne S’udash Shafe’I al Baghwa, author of Masaabehus Sana v.2, p.204.
18.     Allamah Mehmood ibne Umar az Zamakhshari, author of Kashshaaf v.1, p.193.
19.     Allamah Qazi Abu Bakr Mohd ibne Abdullah ibne Mohd ibne Abdullah al Shubayli, author Ehkamul Qur’an. V.2, p.166.
20.     Abdul Muwayd Muwaffaq ibne Ahmad Akhtab Khutaba Khawaarazm. Manaqib p.35.
21.     Allamah Ali ibnil Husayn ibne Hebtullah Damishqi, famous as ibne Asaakir, Author of Tareekhe Damishq.
22.     Allamah Fakhruddin Raazi, author of Tafseere M’aroof.
23.     Abdul Sa’aadaat Mubarak ibne Mohd ibne Atheeral Jazri. Jami’ul Usool. V.1, p.101.
24.     Allamah Mohaddis Sheikh Hasan ibnal Husayn ibne Ali ibne Mohd ibne Batreeq al Asadi, author of Nahjul Uloom.
25.     Allamah Sheikh Azaddin Abul Hasan Ali ibne Atheeral Jazri. Bk. Usdul Ghaaba.
26.     Allamah Yusufal Waa’ez ibne Abdullah al Mushtaharba ibne Jawzee. Tazkerah khawasul Aammah.
27.     Allamah Ganji Shafe’I, author of Kifaayatut Talib.
28.     Allamah Kamaluddin ibne Mohd ibne Talha Shafe’I, author of Matalibus So’ool.
29.     Allamah Sheikh Abu Abdullah Mohd ibne Ahmad al Ansari al Qartabi, author of Jami’ul Ehkamil Qur’an.
30.     Allamah Sheikh Yahya ibne Sharafuddin Damishqi, author of Sharaful Mahzab.
31.     Allamah Qazi Bayzawi, author of Tafseer M’aroof.
32.     Hafiz Mohibuddin Ahmad ibne Abdullah al Batri, author of Zakhaaerul Uqba.
33.     Allamah Nasfi, author of Tafseere Madaarik.
34.     Allamah Waliuddin Mohd ibne Abdullah al Khateeb al Amri Tabrizi, Mishkatul Masabih.
35.     Allamah Jaleel Abul Fida Ismaeel ibne Katheer Damishki, author of Tafseere M’aroof.
36.     Hafiz Nooruddin Ali ibne Abu Bakr al Haythmi, author, Majma’uz Zawaaid.
37.     Sheikhul Imam Ali ibne Mohammad famous as ibne Sabbaagh al Maliki, al Fusool al Mohmmah.
38.     Hafiz Shahabuddin Ahmad ibne Ali ibne Mohd ibne Mohd ibne Ali al Asqalani famous as ibne Hajar, author of Asaada.
39.     Shamsuddin Abu Abdillah Mohammad ibne Ahmad Zahabi, author Talkheesul Mustadrak.
40.     Allamah Sheikh Hamid ibne Ahmad al Mohalla Imani, author of Hadaaeqal Waradiya.
41.     Allamah Nizamuddin al Hasanal E’raj al Qummi, author of Tafseere Neshapoori.
42.     Mohaddise Jaleel As Sayyed Ataaullah al Husayni, author of Rawzatul Ahbab.
43.     Allamah Jalaaluddin Suyuti, author of Durre Manthoor.
44.     Allamah Muwarrikh Ghiyasuddin ibne Himamuddin, author of Habibus Sayr.
45.     Ash Sheikh Ahmad ibno Hajaril Makki, author of Sawaaeqe Mohreqa.
46.     Allamah Mir Mohd Saleh Kashfi, author of Manaaqibe Murtazwi.
47.     Mohaddis Jaleel Alauddin ibne Abdul Malik Hisamuddin, famous by Muttaqi al Hindi, author of Muntakhab Kanzul Ummaal.
48.     Allamah Mohammad Shurbayni al Khateeb, author Tafseere Siraje Muniir.
49.     Allamah Sheikh Mohammad ash Shafe’I al Yamaani, author of Manzooma.
50.     Allamah Mulla Ali al Qari, author of Sharhul Faqihil Akbar.
51.     Author of Arjahul Mataalib.
52.     Allamah Burhanuddin Shafe’I, author of Seeratul Jaleeya.
53.     Mohaddith Zarqani, author of Kitabe Ma’roof.
54.     Allamah Abdullah ibne Mohammad ibne Aamir.
55.     Allamah Sheikh Mohammad Sabaan Misri, author of As’aafur Raaghebayn.
56.     Allamah Qazi al Husayn ibne Ahmad ibnal Husayn al Yamaani. Ar Rawza an Nazeer.
57.     Allamah Sheikh Mohammad ibne Ali Shawkani, Fathul Qadir.
58.     Shahaabuddin Mehmood al Aaloosi, author Roohul Ma’aani.
59.     Allamah Shablanji, author Noorul Absar.
60.     Allamah Siddiq Hasan Khan Bhopali, author of Tashreeful Bashar.
61.     Sheikh Yusuf ibne Ismaeel Bahani, author Sharaful Muwayd.
62.     Allamah Abu Bakr ibne Shahabuddin ash Shafe’i. Rashkatus Saadi.
63.     Allamah Sayyid Alavi al Hidad Sadiqi Al Hazrami ash Shafe’I, athor. Al Uqoolal Fasi.

 

_________________________


now concerning Imamate I mentioned many verses relating to Allah pointing Imams for the Ummah, but you have replied with nothing, not to my proof's and nor to my questions, I have said: that not everything in Quran is mentioned for example, prayer has been mentioned but the number of Rokat or Sujjod has not, for example the number of Imams after Jesus (as) have not ben mentioned but only the group they are from, for example there where 124,00 prophets, but not all of them have nee mentioned in the Quran. You ignore my Ahadith from your books and you claim I copy and past. Very Well, let me Prove to you the truth.

(bismillah)

 

Now every nation should have a guide which leads people to the right path. It is mentioned in the holy Quran that every nation has a guide.

013:007

"And those who disbelieve say: Why has not a sign been sent down upon him from his Lord? You only are a Warner and (there is) a guide for every people."

 

If someone tries to recite Quran and understand Quran from Prophet (saws) he will find numerous verses about Imamat in Quran. No one claim that I can understand Quran by my own without Hadith of Prophet (saws). If someone starts claiming that everything is mentioned in Quran, Quran is sufficient for me and I don’t need any hadith of Prophet (saws), he will not be able to prove that prayer (Namaz, Salah) from Quran. Anyway if you want to know the truth, you should keep true Hadiths of Prophet of Allah beside Holy Quran. If you don’t want to accept Hadith, can you prove the prayer (Namaz) from Holy Quran that how many Rak’at you should pray daily? As there are times of prayer (Namaz) mentioned in Quran similarly the qualities of Imams are mentioned in Holy Quran.

 

The detail will be mentioned in the end of our Conclusion (Inshalla)

Now please read carefully.
 
Verse 1: The Necessity of Imamate from Quran 
 
Every nation should have a guide which leads people to the right path. It is mentioned in Holy Quran that every nation has a guide.
 
سورہ رعد (۱۳) آیہ:۷
وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَوْلا أُنْزِلَ عَلَيْهِ آيَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ إِنَّمَا أَنْتَ مُنْذِرٌ وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ
 
013:007 "And those who disbelieve say: Why has not a sign been sent down upon him from his Lord? You are only a warner And (there is) a guide for every people."
 
In this verse Allah is saying to Holy Prophet (saws) that you are only a warner And (there is) a guider for every people.
It is clear that warner (the Holy Prophet) is not physically alive and he is not in this world that he could guide people while the verse of Quran is saying, every people (every nation) have a guide. (There is a question mark My dear friend)
 
Who Is the Guide (Hadi)?
 
There are 3 opinions about guide (Hadi) which are as following.
1.The Warner (Nazeer) is Holy Prophet (saws) and the guide (Hadi) is Holy Prophet (saws) as well.
2. The Warner (Nazeer) is Holy Prophet (saws) and the Guide (Hadi) is Allah
3. The Warner (Nazeer) is Holy Prophet (saws) and the guides are the scholars and Ulama of the nation.
 
 
Analyze to 3 Above Opinion
___________________________________________________
 
Opinion number 1 is wrong because it is not correct according to the Arabic literature.
If Allah wanted to say that Warner and Guide is Prophet Mohammad (saws) he would had said:
 
انت لکل قوم منذر و ھاد
 
You are Warner and guide for every nation
Instead of saying:
 
أَنْتَ مُنْذِرٌ وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ
 
You are only a warner And (there is) a guide for every people
Quran has mentioned two different sentences.
First one is:
 
You are only a warner
 
إِنَّمَا أَنْتَ مُنْذِرٌ
 
Second one is:
 
And (there is) a guide for every people        
    
وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ
 
Two independent sentences are showing that the "Warner" and the "Guide" are different personalities.
 
Opinion number 2 is wrong because there are two proves available for that.
 
First proof: according to the Arabic grammar the word "Haaden" is Nakira (unknown and unfamiliar) while Allah is not Nakira, he is 
Marefa (acquainted and familiar).
 
Nakira is a term of Arabic grammar which means unknown and unfamiliar.
Marefa is a term of Arabic grammar which means acquainted and familiar
 
Second proof: the verse is saying that different nations have different guides. It does not say that all the nations have one guide rather it says every nation has his own guides. 
 
Opinion number 3 is wrong. You cannot say that "Haaden" means the scholars of our time because as we mentioned above that the word "Hadden" is Nakira (unknown and unfamiliar). According to the Arabic grammar every time Nakira is singular. It means there is only one guide for every single nation while there are thousands of scholars in every time.
             
Last point:
 
As The Warner (Nazeer, Prophet Mohammad) is nominated from Allah similarly the guide (Hadi) should be nominated from Allah.
The supportive verses will be mentioned ahead.
 
Our question is still without answer.
 
Ok, if in this verse Prophet is not guide, Allah is not guide and the scholars are not guide, then who is the guide.
 
This guide (Hadi) is no one except then Ali Ibne Albi Talib (s)
Now the Hadith of Prophet will tell us clearly about the guide (Hadi)
 
Guide (Hadi) in Hadith
 
It is proved very clearly in the Hadith of Holy Prophet (saws) that the guide (hadi) which is mentioned in Quran is Imam Ali (saws).
Mostadrak Ala-Saheehain reports from Imam Ali that Ali recites the verse 013:007 then he says: "Munzer (warner) is Prophet of Allah and I am Hadi (Guide).
After it, the writer of book writes, this Hadith is correct (true) and it is not rejected.
 
Mostadrak Ala-Saheehain is a very important book and it written according to the standard of Saheeh Bukhari and Saheeh Muslim.
The text of Hadith is as following:
 
المستدرك على الصحيحين ج3/ص140
أخبرنا أبو عمرو عثمان بن أحمد بن السماك ثنا عبد الرحمن بن محمد بن منصور الحارثي ثنا حسين بن حسن الأشقر ثنا منصور بن أبي الأسود عن الأعمش عن المنهال بن عمرو عن عباد بن عبد الله الأسدي عن علي إنما أنت منذر ولكل قوم هاد قال علي رسول الله  (ص)  المنذر وأنا الهادي هذا حديث صحيح الإسناد ولم يخرجاه
المستدرك على الصحيحين، تأليف: محمد بن عبدالله أبو عبدالله الحاكم النيسابوري، دار النشر: دار الكتب العلمية - بيروت - 1411هـ - 1990م، الطبعة: الأولى، تحقيق: مصطفى عبد القادر عطا
 
Dur-ol-Mansoor reports, when this verse 013:007 was revealed, prophet of Allah puts his hand on his chest and says: "I am Munzir (warner)". Then Prophet (pbuh) puts his hand on Ali's shoulder and says: "You are the Hadi (guide). O Ali, the lovers of guidance will be guided by you."
 
The text of Hadith is as following:
 
الدر المنثور ج4/ص608
وأخرج ابن جرير وابن مردويه وأبو نعيم في المعرفة والديلمي وابن عساكر وابن النجار قال لما نزلت   إنما أنت منذر ولكل قوم هاد   وضع رسول الله  صلى الله عليه وسلم  يده على صدره فقال أنا المنذر وأومأ بيده إلى منكب علي - رضي الله عنه - فقال أنت الهادي يا علي بك يهتدي المهتدون من بعدي
الدر المنثور، تأليف: عبد الرحمن بن الكمال جلال الدين السيوطي، دار النشر: دار الفكر - بيروت - 1993
 
This Hadith is mentioned in many Sunni books.
We Shias believe that after Imam Ali other eleven Imams are the guides of the nation.
 
_______________________________________________
 
 
 
Verse 2: Imam Should Be Appointed By Allah
 
Imam (leader) of nation should be appointed by creator not the creatures.
It is mentioned in Quran that Imam is nominated by Allah not anyone else.
 
سورہ حج (32) آیہ: 24
وَجَعَلْنَا مِنْهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا لَمَّا صَبَرُوا وَكَانُوا بِآيَاتِنَا يُوقِنُونَ
 
032.024 And We appointed, from among them, leaders, giving guidance under Our command, so long as they persevered with patience and continued to have faith in Our Signs
 
سورہ بقرہ (2) آیہ: 124
وَإِذِ ابْتَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ
 
002.124 And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands, which he fulfilled: He said: "I will make thee an Imam to the Nations." He pleaded: "And also (Imams) from my offspring!" He answered: "But My Promise is not within the reach of evil-doers."
 
It is mentioned clearly in both of the verse that Imam is always made by Allah not the people. According to Holy Quran only Allah makes Imams; because if people start making Imam, they can mistake in selecting Imam. People can make ass, donkey or calf as their leader. It is mentioned in Holy Quran; Prophet Moses' nation chooses the calf as there leader and start worshiping it. If Prophet Moses' nation can make a calf as their leader, why Prophet Mohammad's nation cannot make mistake in selecting the leader (Imam)? Is Prophet Mohammad's nation infallible (Masoom) or the people of Prophet Mohammad's nation are angles? Nation can make mistake and take animal as their leader. This is the reason that Allah is saying in Holy Quran that he will elects Imam not the people.
 
Even the well educated people and scholars can make mistake. Allah is calling a scholar (Alim) as a dog in Quran.
 
سورہ اعراف (7) آیہ: 176
وَلَوْ شِئْنَا لَرَفَعْنَاهُ بِهَا وَلَكِنَّهُ أَخْلَدَ إِلَى الأرْضِ وَاتَّبَعَ هَوَاهُ فَمَثَلُهُ كَمَثَلِ الْكَلْبِ إِنْ تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْهِ يَلْهَثْ أَوْ تَتْرُكْهُ يَلْهَثْ ذَلِكَ مَثَلُ الْقَوْمِ الَّذِينَ كَذَّبُوا بِآيَاتِنَا فَاقْصُصِ الْقَصَصَ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ
 
007.176 If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect.
 
This verse is about a scholar (Alim) named Bal'am Ba'oora, who lived in the time of Prophet Moses. Bal'am was a great scholar of Prophet Moses' time. He was a great power of Prophet Moses against Pharaoh (Feron). Eventually Pharaoh misguided him by giving him some promises...
 
By this verse we come to know that even the great scholar can make mistake so most definitely ordinary people can make more serious and grave mistakes.
Were three caliphs nominated by Allah? Can you prove that?
 
____________________________________________________
 
 
Verse 3: Who Has the knowledge of Quran?
 
Question: What is Holy Quran?
Reply: Quran is Allah's revealed book. Quran is the book which contains entire knowledge of the universe.
Question: After Allah who has the complete knowledge of Quran?
Reply: Holy Prophet Mohammad (saws) has the complete knowledge of Quran after Allah
 
Quran is saying that there is a personality who has the complete knowledge of Quran other than Holy Prophet (saws).
The verse of Quran is as following:
 
سورہ رعد (۱۳) آیہ: 43
وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَسْتَ مُرْسَلا قُلْ كَفَى بِاللَّهِ شَهِيدًا بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ وَمَنْ عِنْدَهُ عِلْمُ الْكِتَابِ
 
13:43 And those who disbelieve say: You are not a messenger Say: Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you and whoever has knowledge of the Book
 
Surely in this verse prophet Mohammad (Saws) cannot be the person who has knowledge of the Book.
If you pay attention to the verse you will find, that unbelievers are saying to Prophet (saws), you are not messenger. In this situation Prophet (saws) is the one who is accused by unbelievers so he cannot be the witness.
 
What Does Knowledge of Book Means?
 
According to the Arabic grammar there can be one of the three following concepts from عِلْمُ الْكِتَابِ “knowledge of the Book”
1. علمُ من الکتاب  A part of knowledge of Quran
2. علمُ فی الکتاب Knowledge which is in the Quran
3.  علمُ لکتاب  Complete knowledge of Quran
 
First one is completely incorrect.
 
Second one is correct but this meaning is quite inconceivable*
 
Third one is the accurate meaning for this verse
 
*Second meaning is not accepted because it is logical rule that when there is an accurate meaning available, why we should accept the inconceivable one.
Conclusion is that “knowledge of the Book” means one who has the complete knowledge of Quran. 
 
 
Four Theories About Knowledge of the Book
 
There are 4 theories mentioned about this verse that indicate who has the knowledge of the book:
1."Whoever has knowledge of the Book" means Allah. There is only one witness mentioned in Quran and that is Allah.
2."Whoever has knowledge of the Book" means those Jews (Ahle Kitab) who entered Islam. One of those people is Abdullah Ben Salam who was a Jewish scholar. When he saw that the signs of Torat (Kitab) are corresponding to Prophet Mohammad (Saws), he converted to Islam. He was the person who had knowledge of book; it means he knew the sign of Prophet (saws) are mentioned in Torat (Old Testament).
 
3."Whoever has knowledge of the Book" means Jebrail (Gabriel) because he the one who brings the revelation, he should have the knowledge of book.
4."Whoever has knowledge of the Book" means that only Imam Ali has the knowledge of Book.
 
 
Analyze to 4 Above Theories
 
1.Viewpoint number 1 cannot be accepted.
The verse is as following:
 
"Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you and whoever has knowledge of the Book"
 
Allah's name is mentioned before. This is a rule of Arabic language, where Atf* (and) is mentioned, there should be a new idea coming after Atf (and)
*Atf means "Wa" (و). Translation of "Wa" is "And"
 
A Question can be mentioned here. There are many kinds of Atfs in Arabic language; one of those Atf is, Atf for explanation. This Atf can be Atf of explanation that Allah is repeating same thing after Aft to explain it more.
 
You cannot call all the Atfs as explanatory Atf. According to the Arabic language rules, there should be a reason to say that this Aft is for explanation while there is no prove and reason which can show this Atf as explanatory Atf.
 
2. Theory number 2 is wrong and unacceptable.
 
First Point: Surah Ra'ad and this verse had been revealed in city of Mecca while Abdullah Ben Salam converted to Islam in city of Medina, therefore this verse was revealed at the time when Abdullah Ben Salam was not a Muslim. This theory rejected even by Sunnis.
Second Point: the verse is as following “And those who disbelieve say:” the style of the verse is indicating that this verse in revealed in Mecca not Medina. Disbelievers use to deny Holy Prophet in Mecca not in Medina. After the Migration to Medina these kinds of problem were solved.
 
3. Theory number 3 is also not acceptable.
First Point: Jebrail’s name is Jebrail-e-Ameen. He is only the trustworthy of revelation. He is only the one who brings the revelation to Prophet Muhammad (saws). Jebrael is Ameen-e-Wahee (trustworthy of revelation) not Alem-e-Wahee (knower of revelation).
 
If you accept this theory, it means Jebrail was more knowledgeable than Prophet (saws) because he had knowledge before the Prophet (saws).
Second Point: When Prophet (saws) went to Meraj (ascension), on the stage of Sedra-tol-Montaha (a stage in the fourth sky) Jebrail said to Prophet (saws) that he cannot accompany him after this stage.
 
Quran has mentioned the remembrance Meraj (ascension) in 017:001 (first verse of surah Isra). If Jebrael had the complete knowledge of Quran, he would have had the knowledge of what happened after the forth sky. Did Jebrael have all the knowledge about what happened after fourth sky?
No, Jebrael is not the one who has the knowledge of Book.
 
4. The theory number 4 only accepted theory.
 
You cannot say that this verse was revealed about three caliphs; Abu Bakr, Umar and Usman.
It is proved by several of narrations that three caliphs had gathered Quran (according to the sunni book, this is a glory for them). How can you accept, those who had gathered Quran can have all the knowledge of Holy Quran?
 
The Hadith are as following:
 
Bukhari reports that Umar came to Abu Bakr and gave him idea of collecting Quran (to make it as a shape of a book). Abu bakr said to Umar how you are doing a thing which Prophet (saws) did not do it. Umar insisted Abu Bakr and eventually Umar convinced Abu Bakr…
 
صحيح البخاري ج4/ص1907
باب جمع القرآن
حدثنا موسى بن إسماعيل عن إبراهيم بن سعد حدثنا بن شهاب عن عبيد بن السباق أن زيد بن ثابت رضي الله عنه قال أرسل إلي أبو بكر مقتل أهل اليمامة فإذا عمر بن الخطاب عنده قال أبو بكر رضي الله عنه إن عمر أتاني فقال إن القتل قد استحر يوم اليمامة بقراء القرآن وإني أخشى أن يستحر القتل بالقراء بالمواطن فيذهب كثير من القرآن وإني أرى أن تأمر بجمع القرآن قلت لعمر كيف تفعل شيئا لم يفعله رسول الله  صلى الله عليه وسلم  قال عمر هذا والله خير ...
الجامع الصحيح المختصر، تأليف: محمد بن إسماعيل أبو عبدالله البخاري الجعفي، دار النشر: دار ابن كثير , اليمامة - بيروت - 1407 - 1987، الطبعة: الثالثة، تحقيق: د. مصطفى ديب البغا
 
It is reported in Bukhari that Usman send someone to Hafsa to bring the Quran from her to him so he can make copies the of Holy Quran then return it to Hafsa…
 
صحيح البخاري ج4/ص1908
4702 حدثنا موسى حدثنا إبراهيم حدثنا بن شهاب أن أنس بن مالك حدثه أن حذيفة بن اليمان قدم على عثمان وكان يغازي أهل الشام في فتح إرمينية وأذربيجان مع أهل العراق فأفزع حذيفة اختلافهم في القراءة فقال حذيفة لعثمان يا أمير المؤمنين أدرك هذه الأمة قبل أن يختلفوا في الكتاب اختلاف اليهود والنصارى فأرسل عثمان إلى حفصة أن أرسلي إلينا بالصحف ننسخها في المصاحف ثم نردها إليك فأرسلت بها حفصة إلى عثمان فأمر زيد بن ثابت وعبد الله بن الزبير وسعيد بن العاص وعبد الرحمن بن الحارث بن هشام فنسخوها في المصاحف ...
الجامع الصحيح المختصر، تأليف: محمد بن إسماعيل أبو عبدالله البخاري الجعفي، دار النشر: دار ابن كثير , اليمامة - بيروت - 1407 - 1987، الطبعة: الثالثة، تحقيق: د. مصطفى ديب البغا
 
 
Imam Ali's knowledge is very obvious for every Muslim whether he is Shia or Sunni. There are many Hadith showing this reality.
 
Tareekhe Kholafa reports that Imam Ali said: "I swear by Allah there no verse of Quran which is revealed and I don’t have knowledge about it, why was it revealed, when was it revealed and on whom was it revealed, because Allah has given me a wise heart and speaking (eloquent) tongue."
 
تاريخ الخلفاء ج1/ص185
وقد أخرج ابن سعد عن علي قال والله مانزلت آية إلا وقد علمت فيم نزلت وأين نزلت وعلى من نزلت إن ربي وهب لي قلبا عقولا ولسانا صادقا ناطقا
تاريخ الخلفاء، تأليف: عبد الرحمن بن أبي بكر السيوطي، دار النشر: مطبعة السعادة - مصر - 1371هـ - 1952م، الطبعة: الأولى، تحقيق: محمد محي الدين عبد الحميد
 
There is another famous Hadith of Prophet (pbuh) which is reported by Mustadrak Ala-Saheehein. Prophet (Saws) says: "I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate, whoever wants to enter the city he should come through the gate."
 
The writer says this Hadith is Saheeh (correct) and it is not rejected.
 
المستدرك على الصحيحين ج3/ص137
حدثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب ثنا محمد بن عبد الرحيم الهروي بالرملة ثنا أبو الصلت عبد السلام بن صالح ثنا أبو معاوية عن الأعمش عن مجاهد عن بن عباس رضي الله عنهما قال قال رسول الله  (ص)  أنا مدينة العلم وعلي بابها فمن أراد المدينة فليأت الباب هذا حديث صحيح الإسناد ولم يخرجاه
المستدرك على الصحيحين، تأليف: محمد بن عبدالله أبو عبدالله الحاكم النيسابوري، دار النشر: دار الكتب العلمية - بيروت - 1411هـ - 1990م، الطبعة: الأولى، تحقيق: مصطفى عبد القادر عطا
 
This Hadith is mentioned in many Sunni Books.
 
This is also a famous Hadith in Sunni books that Tirmizi reports, Prophet (saws) says: "I am the city of wisdom, Ali is its gate."
 
سنن الترمذي ج5/ص637
حدثنا إسماعيل بن موسى حدثنا محمد بن عمر بن الرومي حدثنا شريك عن سلمة بن كهيل عن سويد بن غفلة عن الصنابحي عن علي رضي الله عنه قال قال رسول الله  (ص)  أنا دار الحكمة وعلي بابها
الجامع الصحيح سنن الترمذي، تأليف: محمد بن عيسى أبو عيسى الترمذي السلمي، دار النشر: دار إحياء التراث العربي - بيروت -  -، تحقيق: أحمد محمد شاكر وآخرون
 
Imam Ahmad Ben Ambal (Imam of many sunnis brothers) reported same Hadith in his Book; Fazael-o-Sahab Le Ibne Anbal.
 
فضائل الصحابة لابن حنبل ج2/ص634
فضائل علي عليه السلام - ومن فضائل علي رضي الله عنه من حديث أبي بكر بن مالك عن شيوخه غير عبد الله
حدثنا إبراهيم قال نا محمد بن عبد الله الرومي قال نا شريك عن سلمة بن كهيل عن الصنابحي عن علي بن أبي طالب قال قال رسول الله (ص) أنا دار الحكمة وعلي بابها
فضائل الصحابة، تأليف: أحمد بن حنبل أبو عبد الله الشيباني، دار النشر: مؤسسة الرسالة - بيروت - 1403 - 1983، الطبعة: الأولى، تحقيق: د. وصي الله محمد عباس
 
 
Explanation (Tafseer) of this verse
 
None of Tafseer (explanation of Quran) writers had been able to explain this verse of Quran properly. They are puzzled and confused how to explain this verse of Quran. Who is this person about whom Holy Quran is talking? If they come out of the gloom night of prejudice, surely they can find the reality.
 
Only those were able to explain it correctly, who said this verse is revealed about Imam Ali.
This is not only limited to Shias rather some of our sunni brother believe; that in this verse the witness who has the knowledge of Book is Imam Ali.
 
Tafseere Qurtabi reports in the explanation of (13:43) verse that when the Abdullah Ben Ata said to Abi Jafar:
 
"It is said, Abdullah Ben Saba is the one who has the knowledge of Book."
 
Abi Jafar replied: "Actually, in reality Ali Ben Abi Talib is the one who has the knowledge of Book."
 
The writer says Mohammad Ben Hanifa has the same view about his verse.
The text is as following:
 
تفسير القرطبي ج9/ص336قال عبد الله بن عطاء قلت لأبي جعفر بن علي بن الحسين بن علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنهم زعموا أن الذي عنده علم الكتاب عبد الله بن سلام فقال إنما ذلك علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه وكذلك قال محمد بن الحنفية
الجامع لأحكام القرآن، تأليف: أبو عبد الله محمد بن أحمد الأنصاري القرطبي، دار النشر: دار الشعب - القاهرة
 
Tafseere Bahar-o-Moheet narrates the same Hadith
 
تفسير البحر المحيط ج5/ص390
وقال محمد بن الحنفية والباقر هو علي بن أبي طالب
تفسير البحر المحيط، تأليف: محمد بن يوسف الشهير بأبي حيان الأندلسي، دار النشر: دار الكتب العلمية - لبنان/ بيروت - 1422هـ -2001م، الطبعة: الأولى، تحقيق: الشيخ عادل أحمد عبد الموجود - الشيخ علي محمد معوض، شارك في التحقيق 1) د.زكريا عبد المجيد النوقي 2) د.أحمد النجولي الجمل
 
Tafseere Sa'alabi narrates the same Hadith
 
تفسير الثعلبي ج5/ص303
حدثني بن عبد الله ابن عطاء قال كنت جالساً مع أبي جعفر في المسجد فرأيت ابن عبد الله بن سلام جالساً في ناحية فقلت لأبي جعفر زعموا أنّ الذي عنده علم الكتاب عبد الله بن سلام فقال إنما ذلك علي بن أبي طالب   ح
وفيه عن السبيعي حدثنا عبد الله بن محمد بن منصور بن الجنيد الرازي عن محمد بن الحسين بن الكتاب
أحمد بن مفضل حدثنا مندل بن علي عن إسماعيل بن سلمان عن أبي عمر زاذان عن ابن الحنفية ومن عنده علم الكتاب   قال هو علي بن أبي طالب.
الكشف والبيان (تفسير الثعلبي )، تأليف: أبو إسحاق أحمد بن محمد بن إبراهيم الثعلبي النيسابوري، دار النشر: دار إحياء التراث العربي - بيروت - لبنان - 1422هـ-2002م، الطبعة: الأولى، تحقيق: الإمام أبي محمد بن عاشور ، مراجعة وتدقيق الأستاذ نظير الساعدي
 
 
 
 
Can this be enough? No, of course no since you have already rejected everything by this stage without proof, I will now continue Concerning the “Ūli’ l-’Amr” the opinion of the Ahl ul-Sunna is unsupported by proofs. They claim that Ūli’ l-’Amr means the ruler! What if the ruler is unjust? What if he is not an expert in religious affairs? What if he is a slave of material desires? Is obedience obligatory towards him even if he himself disobeys his Lord? Such a situation creates contradictions. However, all these things are beyond the scope of our discussion.
 
As Umar ibn al-Khattab said, “Two muta’as (Muta’a of Hajj and Muta’a of women) were permitted in the time of the Holy Prophet (S), I prohibit both.” Hence those who consider Allah (S.w.T.) and the Prophet (S) as Ūli’ l-’Amr would regard Muta’a as Halāl. But if they also wish to obey Umar ibn al-Khattab, it will create a contradiction.
 
 Love of ‘Ali (A.S.) Commanded By Allah (S.W.T.), and Muawiya’s Stance
 
Muawiya considered it obligatory to fight ‘Ali (a.s.) whereas the Holy Prophet (S) had made it Harām. The Prophet (S) said, “War against ‘Ali (a.s.) is war against me.” Muawiya used to order people to hate ‘Ali (a.s.) while the Holy Prophet (S) made ‘Ali’s love obligatory and Allah (S.w.T.) made the love of ‘Ali (a.s.) the compensation of the Prophetic message. The Holy Qur’an says,
 
“Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but the love of my near relatives.”
(Surah Ash-Shūrā 42:23)
 
On the basis of this, the result of the obedience of Allah (S.w.T.) and His Prophet (S) would be love for ‘Ali (a.s.). To consider Muawiya as Ūli’ l-’Amr would necessitate hatred for ‘Ali (a.s.), and in this case too a contradictory situation would arise.
 
The Term ‘Ūli’ l-’Amr’ Is Not Restricted to a Particular Group
 
To consider the command of obedience of Ūli’ l-’Amr to be restricted to a particular group is against the import of the Qur’anic ayat. This is because Allah (S.w.T.) has not ordered the obedience of Ūli’ l-’Amr separately: He has included the obedience of Ūli’ l-’Amr alongwith that of the Holy Prophet (S). Thus the obedience of Ūli’ l-’Amr is the obedience of the Holy Prophet (S). There is no difference between the obedience of the Prophet (S) and the obedience of Ūli’ l-’Amr. The obedience of the Holy Prophet (S) and the Ūli’ l-’Amr is compulsory upon everyone. It is not restricted to a few people. If we consider Ūli’ l-’Amr to include all types of rulers it would not be correct. Ūli’ l-’Amr are those who are purified from every kind of mistakes and sins: So that they could be obeyed without any reservations.
 
Are the Religious Scholars Ūli’ l-’Amr?
 
Some scholars claim that by Ūli’ l-’Amr is meant the religious leaders (Ālims). But, the Ālims are not infallible (Masūm). All the Ālims are prone to commit mistakes. That is the reason why there are differences in the religious rulings. Secondly infallibility is an inward quality which cannot be perceived by the people. That is the reason why the Ūli’ l-’Amr could only be designated by Allah (S.w.T.) and appointed by the Holy Prophet (S).
 
 
The Twelve Imams Are Ūli’ l-’Amr
 
Numerous books of the Sunnis as well as Shia record traditions that the Ūli’ l-’Amr are the Twelve Imams. The following tradition is regarded as authentic by the Sunnis as well as the Shias.
 
 
What the Holy Prophet (S) Says Regarding Ūli’ l-’Amr
 
Jabir ibn Abdullah Ansari (a.r.) reports, “I asked the Holy Prophet (S) that I know Allah (S.w.T.) and His Prophet (S), but I do not know the Ūli’ l-’Amr.” The Holy Prophet (S) replied,
“They are my Caliphs, O! Jabir, and Imams of the Muslims after me. The first of them is ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib (a.s.), then Hasan, then Husain, then ‘Ali ibn Husain, then Muhammad bin ‘Ali known in the Tawrat as Al-Baqir, thou wilt shortly meet him O Jabir; so when you meet him, convey to him my Salām; then Ja’far ibn Muhammad, then Musa bin Ja’far, then ‘Ali bin Musa, then Muhammad bin ‘Ali, then ‘Ali ibn Muhammad, then Hasan bin ‘Ali, then my name sake and one having my kunniyat. They are the decisive argument of Allah on this earth and the mainstay of His religion among mankind. The last of them is the one whom Allah will give victory over the east of the earth and the west; and it is he who will disappear from his Shias and friends. A long concealment, during which no one will remain firm in the belief of his Imamat except those whose hearts Allah has tested for faith.” Jabir (a.r.) asked, “Will his Shias derive benefit from him during his concealment?” “Yes”, said the Apostle of Allah, “By him Who raised me up with Prophethood,verily they will obtain light from his ‘Nūr’ and will benefit by his Wilāyat during his concealment, like people derive benefit from the sun when it is covered with clouds.”
 
(Yanabiul Mawaddah)
 
So, it could be concluded from this tradition that the obedience of the Holy Ahl ul-Bayt (a.s.) is equivalent to the obedience of Allah (S.w.T.). Those interested in more details can refer to the book ‘Ghayatul Marām’. In the fifty-ninth chapter of this book, four traditions from the Sunni sources and fourteen from the Shia sources are mentioned. In the same book, in the 121st chapter, four traditions from the Sunni books and twenty-eight from the Shia sources are recorded.
 
Obedience of the Just Mujtahid
 
Now we can say that during the Major occultation the obedience of a qualified Mujtahid is also compulsory. His obedience is actually the obedience of Imam az-Zaman (a.s.). Imam (a.s.) says,
“Look carefully at those people who relate our traditions with deliberation upon our permitted and prohibited things, and know our precepts and commandments. Select one of them for adjudication, since I have appointed such a person for the said task. If his verdict is rejected then it is as if the command of Allah is deemed light and our ordinance refuted. Certainly the one who refutes our ordinance has refuted the ordinance of Allah. Verily such a person has stepped into the boundary of Shirk (Polytheism).”
(al-Kāfi)
 

Our brothers, some people, believe that in the above verse the words 'those vested with authority' (uli'l-amr) refer to state officials. Accordingly, they consider obedience to kings and governors compulsory even though these officials may be evil. In fact this belief is wrong. Shortage of time does not permit me to make a lengthy argument in support of my point, so I will trouble you with only a short discussion.

 

Obviously rulers obtain their authority in one of these ways: 

 

1. They are appointed by ijma (consensus)

2. They gain power by force.

3. They are divinely commissioned.

 

If a leader gains authority by consensus of the community, it is not compulsory to obey him as one obeys Allah or the Prophet. It is not possible for all Muslims to appoint a just ruler since, however wise or conscientious they may be, they can only judge a man by appearance. They cannot read his heart or know the degree of his faith.

 

Obviously Muslims cannot claim to possess better understanding than the Prophet Moses. He selected seventy men out of several thousand for their apparent integrity and took them with him to Mount Sinai. But all of them, on examination, proved worthless because their faith was not firm. This fact has been referred to in the Holy Qur'an, verse 154 of sura 7.

If those selected by Moses proved to be unbelievers at heart, it is obvious that common people would be less competent to choose able rulers for themselves. It is quite possible that those selected for their apparent piety may eventually turn out to be unbelievers. Surely obedience to such rulers would weaken religion.

Certainly Allah would not require his servants to obey a sinner as they would obey Him or His Prophet. Moreover, if the appointment of the 'uli'l-amr' were made through a true consensus, an election would have to be held for each new appointment. All citizens of all Muslim nations would have to agree on the choice in every election.

 

During 1300 years of Islam we find that, after the Holy Prophet, no such consensus ever occurred. At present it is impossible to secure such a consensus because the Muslim world has been split up into numerous countries, each with a ruler of its own.

 

Moreover, if every country should elect an 'uli'l-amr' for itself, there would be numerous 'uli'l-amr,' each to be obeyed within his own country, and the people of one country would not obey the uli'l-amr' of other countries. Of course then there is the question of allegiance when differences arise - as they often have in the last 1300 years - between two 'authorities.' We then have Muslims killing other Muslims in the name of Islam. 

 

But true Islam does not require such absurd behavior which would lead to mutual strife among Muslims. It follows, therefore, that the 'uli'l-amr' whom we are commanded to obey has gained his authority by consensus. 

 

It is equally absurd to suggest that obedience to a tyrant is compulsory. If it were, why do the Sunni ulema condemn the oppressive rulers and caliphs, like Mu'awiya, Yazid, the wicked Ziyad Ibn Abib, Ubaidullah, Hajjaj, Abu Salma, and Muslim.

 

If anyone claims that obedience to wicked rulers is compulsory (and some ulema have really said that), it would be quite contrary to the Qur'anic injunctions. Allah has frequently cursed sinners in the Holy Qur'an and has forbidden Muslims to obey them. So how is it possible that in this verse He would order us to obey sinners? Obviously, we cannot attribute two divergent orders to Allah Almighty. Hence, Imam Fakhru'd-din Razi clearly says regarding this holy verse that the 'uli'l-amr' must possess perfect integrity. Otherwise, Allah would not have linked our duty to obey them with our duty to obey Allah Himself and the Holy Prophet.

 

According to the Shias, the 'uli'l-amr' must be free from sin and infallible. And since no one except Allah can know the deep reality of the heart, the 'uli'l-amr' must be appointed by Allah. Thus Allah, Who ordains the prophets, also ordains the 'uli'l-amr:' An 'uli'l-amr' obviously must have the same attributes the Holy Prophet had.

 

In this holy verse the word ati'u (obey) has been used twice: He says, "Obey Allah and obey the Apostle." When He speaks of 'uli'l-amr,' He does not use the word 'ati'u' again but uses the conjunction 'and' with 'uli'l-amr.' Linking the words in this way it means that 'uli'l-amr' possess the same merit as the Holy Prophet possesses, except those which are peculiar to the Prophet alone, e.g. 'Wahi' (revelation), prophethood, etc. In short, the qualities of the Holy Prophet should be possessed by the 'uli'l-amr' except of course the rank of prophethood.

 

Accordingly, Shias believe that the words 'uli'l-amr' refer to the twelve Imams, that is Amiru'l-Mu'minin and his eleven descendants, the progeny of the Holy Prophet. This verse is one of the proofs of the Imamate of the twelve Imams.

 

Apart from this, there are many other verses supporting our point of view. 

(1) For instance, the Holy Qur'an says: "He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men." Abraham said: And of my offspring? My covenant includes not the unjust, said He." (2:124)

(2) "The Prophet has a greater claim on the believers than they have on themselves and his wives are (A..S) their mothers; and blood relations have the better claim in respect of one to the other, according to the book of Allah than (other) believers or the emigrants." (33:6)

(3) "O you who believe! Fear Allah and be (always) with the truthful ones." (9:119)

(4) "You are only a warner and (there is) a guide for every people." (13:7)

(5) "And (know) that this is My path, the right one. Therefore follow it, and follow not (other) ways, for they will lead you away from His way. (6:153)

(6) "And of those whom we have created are a people who guide with the truth and thereby they do justice." (7:181)

(7) "And hold fast by the covenant of Allah all together and be not disunited." (3:103)

(8) "So ask the followers of the Reminder if you do not know." (16:43)

(9) "Allah only desires to keep away uncleanness from you, O people of the House! And to purify you with a complete purification." (33:33)

(10) "Surely Allah chose Adam and Noah and the descendants of Abraham and the descendants of Imran above the nations. Offspring, one of the other."(3:33)

(11) "Then We gave the Book for an inheritance to those whom We chose from among Our servants." (35:32) 

(12) "Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth; a likeness of His light is as a niche in which is a lamp, the lamp in a glass, (and) the glass is, as it were, a brightly shining star, lit from a blessed olive tree, of neither the east or the West, the oil whereof nearly gives light, though fire touch it not." (24:35)

There are many other verses which could be quoted. Many of your prominent ulema have reported that the Holy Prophet said, "One fourth of the Holy Qur'an is in praise of the Ahle Bait." 

Ibn Abbas is reported to have said, "More than 300 verses were revealed in praise of Ali."

Now, I come to my original point that the 'uli'l-amr' must be infallible because obedience to them is linked with obedience to Allah and the Holy Prophet.

Imam Fakhru'd-din Razi in his Tafsir admits that if we do not regard the 'uli'l-amr' as infallible, it would be, in effect, affirming two contradictions as being true. Your own ulema have confirmed that these qualities were possessed exclusively by the twelve Imams. The Holy verse of Purification (33:33) also confirms this fact.


 

Sheikh Sulayman Balkhi Hanafi in Yanabiu'l-Mawadda, ch.77, p.445 and Hamwaini in Fara'idu's-Simtain report that Ibn Abbas said: "I heard the Holy Prophet saying: ' I and Ali, Hasan, Husain and nine of the descendants of Husain are completely pure and infallible.'"

 

Salman Farsi says that the Holy Prophet, putting his hand on the shoulder of Husain, said: "He is the Imam and the son of the Imam, and of his descendants there will be nine Imams who will all be virtuous trustees of Allah."

 

Zaid Ibn Thabit reports that the Holy Prophet said: "Verily, of Husain's descendants will be born Imams who will be virtuous trustees, infallible judges."

Imran Ibn Hasin reports that the Holy Prophet said to Ali: "You are heir to my knowledge. You are the Imam and Caliph after me. You will tell the people what they do not know. You are the father of my grandson and husband of my daughter. Of your descendants there will be infallible Imams."

 

Abu Ishaq Hamwaini in Fara'idu's-Simtain, Hafiz Abu Nu'aim Ispahani in Hilyatu'l-Auliya, and Ibn Abi'l-Hadid in Sharh-e-Nahju'l-Balagha report from Ibn Abbas that the Holy Prophet said: "My progeny have been created from the same seed from which I have been created. Allah Almighty has bestowed upon them knowledge and wisdom. Woe be to him who rejects them."

Ibn Abi'l-Hadid in Sharh-e-Nahju'l-Balagha, and the author of Siratu's-Sahaba, report from Hudhaifa Bin Asaid that the Holy Prophet said: "I leave behind for you two weighty things: the book of Allah and my 'Ahle Bait.' If you attach yourselves to these two you will be rescued." Tabrani reports an addition: "Do not reject their authority; otherwise you shall be ruined. Do not show any disrespect toward them or ignore them, or else you shall be destroyed. Do not try to teach them because verily they know better than you do."

 

In other reports Hudhaifa Bin Asaid quotes the Holy Prophet as saying: "After me there will be Imams from my progeny. Their number will be equal to the number of Bani Isra'il's heralds, that is, twelve, of whom nine will be Husain's descendants. Allah has bestowed upon all of them my knowledge and wisdom. So do not teach them because surely they know better than you do. Follow them since they are definitely with truth, and truth is with them." 

 
 

First, this divine book is concise. It contains many general principles but few details, which have been left for the chief commentator, the Holy Prophet, to explain. Allah says: "And whatever the Apostle gives you, accept it; and from whatever he forbids you, keep back." (59:7)

 

Because the names and numbers of the twelve Imams are not mentioned in the Holy Qur'an, some people do not accept them. But on that basis they should reject their own caliphs since no verse of the Holy Qur'an makes any mention of their caliphs, except Ali Bin Abi Talib, or of the Umayyad or Abbasid caliphs, or of the authority vested in the Community to elect a caliph by consensus.

 

Second, if it is necessary to reject anything which is not clearly stated in the Holy Qur'an, then you should reject many of the methods of our worship since there is no mention of their details in the Holy Qur'an.

 

The ritual prayer is perhaps the central act of worship in a Muslim's life. The Holy Prophet emphasized its performance. He said: "The ritual prayer is the pillar and protector of religion. If the ritual prayer is accepted, all other religious performances will be accepted. If it is rejected, all other religious performances will also be rejected."

 

Of course, there is no mention in the Holy Qur'an of the number of units (rak'ats) to be performed for each prayer or any of the other specific details regarding how the prayers are to be performed. Does this mean that we should abandon the prayers? The Holy Qur'an simply says: "Establish salat (prayer). There are no details distinguishing required from optional acts. These were explained by the Holy Prophet. 

 

In the same way other commands have been stated in the Holy Qur'an in principle only. Their details, conditions and relevant instructions were explained by the Holy Prophet. Similarly, concerning the Imamate and caliphate, the Holy Qur'an says only: "Obey Allah and obey the Prophet and those in authority among you." And we are bound to follow the Holy Prophet's order in this regard in the same way we follow his instructions with regard to the details of the ritual prayers.

 

Muslim commentators, whether Sunni or Shia, cannot make their own interpretations of the Holy Qur'an. The Holy Prophet said: "If someone gives his own interpretation of the Holy Qur'an, his place is Hell."

 

Accordingly, every sensible Muslim turns to the real interpreter of the Holy Qur'an, the Holy Prophet. For many years I have studied both Sunni and Shia Qur'anic commentary and hadith but have never come across a single hadith in which the Holy Prophet said that 'uli'l-amr' refers to political rulers. On the other hand, the books of both the Sunnis and Shias contain numerous reports that the Holy Prophet was asked to indicate the meaning of 'uli'l-amr' and he replied that 'uli'l-amr' referred to Ali and his eleven descendants. I will present only a few of these numerous hadith which have been narrated through sources accepted by Sunnis.

 

 

ULI'L-AMR REFERS TO ALI AND THE IMAMS OF THE AHLE BAIT

 

(1) Abu Ishaq Sheikhu'l-Islam Hamwaini Ibrahim Bin Muhammad writes in his Fara'idu's-Simtain: "The Prophet told us that 'uli'l-amr' refers to Ali Bin Abi Talib and the Ahle Bait of the Holy Prophet." 

 

(2) 'Isa Bin Yusuf Hamadani reports from Abu'l-Hasan and Salim Bin Qais, who report from Amiru'l-Mu'minin Ali that the Holy Prophet said: "My associates are those whose obedience has been linked by Almighty Allah with His own obedience. It is they to whom He refers when He says 'Those in authority from among you.' It is necessary that you not oppose what they say. You should obey them and follow their orders." Amiru'l-Mu'minin goes on to say, "When I heard this, I said: "O Prophet, let me know who the 'uli'l-amr' are." The Prophet said: "O Ali! You are the first of them."

 

(3) Muhammad Bin Mu'min Shirazi, one of the most eminent Sunni religious scholars, writes in his Risala-e-I'tiqadat that when the Holy Prophet appointed Amiru'l-Mu'minin his representative in Medina, the verse "uli'l-amr-e-Minkum" (And those in authority from among you) was revealed in reference to Ali Bin Abi Talib.

 

(4) Sheikh Sulayman Balkhi Hanafi in his Yanabiu'l-Mawadda, Ch.38, reports from Manaqib that it is stated in Tafsir-e-Mujahid that this verse was revealed in reference to Amiru'l-Mu'minin when the Prophet appointed him as his representative in Medina. The Holy Imam said: "O Holy Prophet of Allah! Have you appointed me Caliph over women and children?" Then the Holy Prophet said: "Are you not content that you have the same relation to me as Aaron had to Moses?"

 

(5) Sheikhu'l-Islam Hamwaini reports Salim Bin Qais Hilali as saying the following: During Uthman's caliphate, I saw some Muhajirs and Ansars sitting together praising themselves. Ali was silent among them. The people asked Ali to speak. He said: "Do you not know that the Holy Prophet said: 'I and my Ahle Bait were one light, which existed in His creation 14,000 years before the creation of Adam? When He created Adam, He placed that light in his spine when he came down to the earth. Then He placed it in Noah in his ark; then in Abraham's spine while he was in the fire; similarly in the pure spines of fathers and in the pure wombs of mothers, none of whom were born unlawfully." Those in the group who were foremost in the battles of Badr and Hunain said: "Yes, we have heard these words." Then Ali said, "Tell me on oath whether you know that in the Holy Qur'an Allah has given preference to the foremost ones,

and that in Islam no one equals me in merit." They said, "Yes, we acknowledge this."

 

Then Ali recited from the Holy Qur'an: "And the foremost are the foremost; these are they who are drawn nigh (to Allah)." (56:10-11) He said: "When this verse was revealed, the people asked the Holy Prophet who were the foremost ones, and about whom the verse was revealed. Now tell me on oath if you know that the Holy Prophet told them that Allah Almighty revealed this verse about the prophets and their vicegerents. I am foremost among all the prophets and Ali, my wasi (vicegerent) is foremost among all the vicegerents?"

 

Then Ali said: "The Holy Qur'an tells us, 'Obey Allah and obey the Prophet and those vested with authority from among you' (4:59) and the verse 'Verily, verily your guardian is (none else but) Allah and His Prophet (Muhammad) and those who believe, those who establish prayer and pay the poor-rate, while bowing down (in prayer).' (5:55) and the verse 'have not taken anyone as an adherent besides Allah and His Apostle and the believers.' (9:16) Allah subsequently ordered His Holy Prophet to identify who was meant by the words 'uli'l-amr' (those vested with authority) in the same way as the ritual prayer, fasting and the Hajj had been clarified. Accordingly, at Ghadir-e-Khum the Holy Prophet appointed me over the people and declared: 'O people when Almighty Allah commissioned me to prophethood I felt apprehension that people would oppose me.'

 

Then the Holy Prophet continued: 'O people, do you know that Allah Most High is my Master? I enjoy more mastery over the selves of the believers than they have over themselves?' 

When all confirmed that it was so, the Holy Prophet announced: 'Of whomsoever I am the master, Ali is his master; O Allah be a friend of him who is a friend of Ali and be an enemy of him who is an enemy of Ali.'

 

Then Salman stood up and asked: 'O Holy Prophet what is the significance of Ali's mastery?' The Holy Prophet replied: 'Ali's mastery is like my own mastery. Of whomsoever I am the master Ali is also his master.'

 

Then the verse was revealed: 'This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion.' (5:3) Thereupon the Holy Prophet said: 'Allah is Great, Who has perfected the religion, completed His favor upon me, and is satisfied with my prophethood and is satisfied with Ali being the vicegerent after me.'"

This hadith confirms those hadith which I related during past nights to show that 'master' connotes complete mastery over more than one's own.

 

"The people then said: 'O Holy Prophet tell us the names of your vicegerents.' The Holy Prophet said: 'They are Ali, who is my brother, my successor, and my vicegerent and the master of every believer after me; then his son, Hasan, then Husain, then nine successive sons of Husain. The Holy Qur'an is with them and they are with the Holy Qur'an. They will not separate from it, and it will not separate from them until they reach me at the Pool of Kauthar.'"

 

After recording the full report, he has recorded three other reports from Manaqib narrated by Salim Bin Qais, Isa Bin Sirri, and Ibn Mu'awiya showing that the words 'uli'l-amr' refer to the twelve Imams of the 'Ahle Bait.'

 

I believe that the above reports are enough to clarify the real meaning of 'uli'l-amr.' As for the number and names of the Holy Imams, I will relate hadith narrated by eminent Sunni scholars, without referring, as has been my practice, to the many reports by Shia scholars.


NAMES OF THE TWELVE IMAMS AND THEIR NUMBER 

 

(1) Sheikh Sulayman Balkhi Hanafi in his Yanabiu'l-Mawadda, ch.76, reports from Fara'idu's-Simtain of Hamwaini, who reports from Mujahid, who reports from Ibn Abbas, that a Jew named Na'thal came to the Holy Prophet and asked him questions about Tawhid (Unity of Allah). The Holy Prophet answered his questions and the Jew embraced Islam. Then he said: "O Holy Prophet, every prophet had a wasi (vicegerent). Our Prophet, Moses Bin Imran, made a will for Yusha Bin Nun. Please tell me who is your wasi?" The Holy Prophet said: "My vicegerent is Ali Bin Abi Talib; after him are Hasan, and Husain and after them are nine Imams, who are the successive descendants of Husain."

 

Na'thal asked the Holy Prophet the names of those Imams. The Holy Prophet said: "After Husain, his son, Ali, will be the Imam; after him his son, Muhammad; after him his son, Ja'far; after him his son Musa; after him his son, Ali; after him his son, Muhammad; after him his son, Hasan; after him his son, Muhammad Mahdi will be the last Imam. There will be twelve Imams." 

In addition to the names of the nine Imams, this hadith further states that each would succeed as Imam after his father. Na'thal made further inquiries, and the Holy Prophet described the manner of death of each Imam.

 

Then Na'thal said, "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that you are His Holy Prophet. I bear witness that these twelve holy Imams are your vicegerents after you. What you have said is exactly what is recorded in our books and in the will of Moses."

 

Then the Holy Prophet said: "Paradise is for him who loves them and obeys them, and Hell is for him who is hostile to them and opposes them."

 

Na'thal then recited some couplets to the effect that "May Allah, the Exalted, shower His blessings upon you, chosen Prophet and pride of the Bani Hashim. Allah has guided us by means of you and the twelve holy men whom you have named. Certainly Allah has purified them and preserved them from impurity. He who loves them is successful. He who hates them is the loser. The last of the Imams will quench the thirst of the thirsty. He is the one the people will wait for. Prophet of Allah, your progeny is a blessing for me and for all the believers. Those who turn away from them will soon be thrown into Hell."

 

(2) The great scholar, Sheikh Sulayman Balkhi, in his Yanabiu'l-Mawadda, ch. 76 reports from Manaqib of Khawarizmi, who reports from Wathila Bin Asqa' Bin Qarkhab, who reports Jabir Bin Abdullah Ansari; and also Abu'l-Fazl Shaibani and he from Muhammad Bin Abdullah Bin Ibrahim Shafi'i, who reports Jabir Ansari (one of the chief companions of the Prophet) as saying: "Jundal Bin Junadab Bin Jubair, a Jew, came to the Holy Prophet and asked him about Tawhid. After hearing his reply, the man became a Muslim. He said that on the previous night he had seen Moses in a dream telling him: 'Embrace Islam at the hands of the last of the prophets, Muhammad, and attach yourself to the vicegerents after him.' He thanked Allah for the blessing of Islam. He then asked the Holy Prophet to tell him the names of his vicegerents. The Holy Prophet began by saying: 'My vicegerents are twelve in number.' 

 

The man said that he had seen this fact in the Torah. He asked the Prophet to tell him their names, and the Prophet said: 'The first of them is the chief of the vicegerents, the father of the Imams, Ali. Then follow his two sons - Hasan and Husain. You shall see these three. When you reach the last stage of your life, Imam Zainu'l-Abidin will be born, and the last thing that you have of this world shall be milk. So cling to them so that ignorance may not mislead you.'

 

The man said that he had seen in the Torah and in other scriptures the names of Ali, Hasan, and Husain as Elias, Shabbar, and Shabbir. He asked the Holy Prophet to tell him the names of the other Imams. 

 

Then the Holy Prophet named the remaining nine Imams with their epithets and added: 'The last of them, Muhammad Mahdi, will live, but disappear. He will appear later and will fill the world with justice and equity, since it will have degenerated into injustice and tyranny. Verily, Paradise is for those who show patience during the time of his occultation. Paradise is for those who are firm in their love for him. These are they whom Allah Almighty has praised in the Holy Qur'an and for whom the Holy Qur'an is a 'guide for those who guard (against evil). Those who believe in the unseen.' Also He says 'These are Allah's party: now surely the party of Allah are the successful ones.'" (58:22)


THE NUMBER OF CALIPHS AFTER THE HOLY PROPHET IS TWELVE 

 

Mir Seyyed Ali Shafi'i Hamadani in his Mawaddatu'l Qurba, (Mawadda XIII), reports that Umar Bin Qais said: "We were sitting in a group in which Abdullah Bin Mas'ud was also present. Suddenly an Arab came and said: "Who among you is Abdullah? Abdullah said: "I am." He said: "Abdullah! Did the Holy Prophet tell you about the caliphs after him?" 

Abdullah Bin Mas'ud said, "Yes, the Prophet said: 'After me there will be twelve caliphs, corresponding to the number of the Imams of the Bani Isra'il.'"

 

The same hadith has also been reported from Sha'bi, who reported it from Masruq, who reported it from Abdullah Shiba. 

Also Jurair, Ash'ath, Abdullah Bin Mas'ud, Abdullah Bin Umar, and Jubair Bin Samra all report the Holy Prophet as saying: "There will be twelve caliphs after me. Their number will correspond to the number of the caliphs of the Bani Isra'il." According to Abdu'l-Malik's report, the Holy Prophet added: "And all of them will be from the Bani Hashim."

Most Sunni ulema, including Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Muslim, Sha'bi have reported the same thing. 

 

Yahya Bin Hasan, a great scholar of jurisprudence, has reported in his Kitab-e-Umda from twenty different sources, that "Verily, there are twelve caliphs after the Holy Prophet, and all of them belong to the Quraish." Bukhari has reported from three sources, Muslim from nine sources, Ali Dawud from three sources, Tirmidhi from one source, and Hamid from three sources that the Holy Prophet said: "The caliphs and Imams after me are twelve, and all of them are from the Quraish." According to some reports, the Holy Prophet said: "All of them are from the Bani Hashim." 

On page 446 Yahya Bin Hasan says: "Some of the scholars have said that hadith in support of the view that the number of the caliphs and Imams after the Holy Prophet is twelve are commonly known. Everyone knows that when the Holy Prophet specified the number of his caliphs to be twelve, he meant that they would belong to his 'Ahle Bait,' To say that he meant the caliphs who were his companions would be incompatible with the facts (since there were only four).

 

Nor can it be said that he meant the Umayyad kings, of whom there were thirteen. Moreover, they were all tyrants except Umar Bin Abdu'l-Aziz, (although even he usurped the caliphate and forced the Imam of the time to remain confined in his house). Since the Holy Prophet had said: "They are all from the Bani Hashim," the Bani Umayyads are not to be included.

So it is clear that the rightful caliphs of the Holy Prophet were the twelve Imams who were descendants of the Holy Prophet and who excelled all others in knowledge and piety. This fact is confirmed by this consecutively narrated hadith of the Holy Prophet. "I leave behind me two great things, the Holy Book of Allah (the Holy Qur'an) and my 'Ahle Bait.' If you are attached to these two, never, never, shall you go astray after me. Verily, these two shall never be separated from one another until they meet me at the Pool of Kauthar. If you are attached to these two, you will never be misled."

 

The Holy Prophet said: "Seek knowledge even in China." We have spent ten long nights discussing issues concerning a precious knowledge - the way of Islam. We have seen many differences between the Sunni and Shia sects, and we hope that historical fact and reason have clarified the nature of the differences. If Allah wills, these discussions will convince sincere seekers of knowledge that "Whom Allah guides, no one can lead astray."
 

 

 

Why Ahl Bayt’s Name Is Not Mentioned In Holy Quran? ( now you have asked me this Question many times, and I have answered you many times....)  please read the Detailed answer.
 
It is possible that one may ask, that although at times the Ahl Bayt and specially Imam Ali has been pointed out, but why still did not Allah mention it even once in the Quran, which would have made life easier for a lot of the Muslim nation?
 
 The Quran is a Universal book, which does not mention the minute details, therefore God has sent a prophet along with the book who shall teach the people the book and speak of its secrets, and convey his messages, and point out the facts. So what the prophet mentions is the authority for the Muslim nation
 
 
Abu Basir says: he narrates from Imam Sadiq regarding the ayah surah nisa verse 59,
 
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الأمْرِ مِنْكُمْ ...
 
004.059 O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you…
 
That Imam Sadiq says, Olil Amr is Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Hassan and Hussain, I said: the people say why the names of Ali and his progeny are not mentioned in the Quran? He said: “it is revealed in the Quran to offer prayer every day, but does it mention the amount of Rak’at in the Quran? The numbers of Rakats were told to the prophet and he narrated it to the people. Likewise Khums, when Allah mentions that the Muslims have to pay the Zakat, but does it mention the amount of the money to be paid, that too was told by the prophet to the people, the Ayah of Hajj was revealed and nowhere in the Quran does it mention on how many times do we have to circumambulate the Kabah, no, that too was told the people by the prophet. So the ayah mentioned was revealed in affirmation of the Imamatee of Ali, Hassan and Husain and the prophet defined and told the people the meaning of the verse, and he told about Ali: Who ever I am the leader of; Ali too is the leader of them.
 
Prophet (pbuh) said: I recommend you not to let go off any of these two, the book of God and the Ahl Bayt.
 
سنن الترمذي ج5/ص662
باب مناقب أهل بيت النبي (ص)عن جابر بن عبد الله قال رأيت رسول الله (ص)في حجته ... يقول يا أيها الناس إني قد تركت فيكم ما إن أخذتم به لن تضلوا كتاب الله وعترتي أهل بيتي
الجامع الصحيح سنن الترمذي، تأليف: محمد بن عيسى أبو عيسى الترمذي السلمي، دار النشر: دار إحياء التراث العربي - بيروت
 
Had the Prophet not mentioned in the traditions who the Ahl bayt? Yes he did. Allah affirms the word of his Prophet in the holy book in the 33rd verse of the 33rd Sur’ ah.  Thus only Ali, Hassan, Husain and Fatima were the Ahl Bayt, and also at another place the Prophet gathered with them under a cloak saying: O Lord! For every prophet there have been companions and confidantes, these are my progeny and my people.
 
الدر المنثور ج6/ص604
وأخرج ابن جرير وابن أبي حاتم والطبراني عن أبي سعيد الخدري رضي الله عنه قال قال رسول الله  صلى الله عليه وسلم  نزلت هذه الآية في خمسة في وفي علي وفاطمة وحسن وحسين   إنما يريد الله ليذهب عنكم الرجس أهل البيت ويطهركم تطهيرا  
الدر المنثور، تأليف: عبد الرحمن بن الكمال جلال الدين السيوطي، دار النشر: دار الفكر - بيروت - 1993 الدر المنثور، تأليف: عبد الرحمن بن الكمال جلال الدين السيوطي، دار النشر: دار الفكر - بيروت - 1993
 
         One of the reasons of not mentioning the names of the Ahl Bayt maybe that God wanted to test the Muslim nation with this and wanted to see who comes out successful in the end. To explain this we need to explain a few points:
1.        God has promised, I shall test all people and all nations, and has also pointed out to this fact in different places of the Quran.
2.        The way God tests his creations had been different in different cases, for instance sometimes with the creation of Adam God asked the Angels to prostrate and so they were tested in this manner, and then some were tested by ordering not to fish on Sundays like in the case of Jews, and so in the end God shall test every one with different conditions.
3.        One of the ways that God test his people is by how they follow their Prophet. There are some ways God tests the people:
         The prophet is introduced to the people from God, his rank his position, and the respect and authority he has been granted by God
         And then God commands the people to abide by the teaching of the prophet
4.       By not mentioning the names of the Imams in the Quran, Allah has tested the Muslims to see how many of them are the real abiders to the word of their lord and which of them are the misguided
         The late Syed Abdul Husain Sharf-udeen in his book ‘Falsafe al misaaq wal wilayah’, when answering this question mentions, ‘Arabs or to be specific Quraysh had understood the fact that when the Prophet of Islam wanted Islam to progress into different parts of the society, he had no option to kill a few of the people who were in his way, and for this act he had used Ali in more than one places, now the Arabs were looking for a payback and who better than Ali, when the Prophet has passed away the people had taken their revenge by trying to destroys Ali’s social life.
On the other hand, when they had seen how close Imam Ali was to the prophet, it was only but natural that they become jealous, after the Prophet passed away was the time when they could easily seek their revenge.
The Arabs were well aware that when the prophet passes away, the caliphate would be handed over to the household of the prophet, i.e. the Bani Hashim and in it shall to proceed, this was to many of the Arabs not acceptable and they long before the prophet died had planned to snatch this right form the Ahl bayt, on one of the occasions we find Umar as saying to ibn abbas “Quraysh does not wish that prophet-hood and Imamatee both be granted to Bani Hashim”.
 
By having understood these matters we understand that the concept of Imamatee was a very difficult concept for the prophet to convey to the people, on one side it was part of the basis of religion, because the prophet had to leave a successor behind and on the other hand we had people who were influential in Quraysh and were not ready to swear allegiance to Ali Ibn Abi Talib. Allah had known that these people would do anything they possibly could to get their way done, be it even editing the Quran, and erase from it even the most basic of verses. So in this case we understand that the Prophet during his life time had insisted on the caliphate of Ali after his demise, but Allah had not bought the names of the Ahl bayt in the Quran to protect it from harm of the people.
 
The signs of them turning their faces away from the prophet were visible in the last days of the prophets life, first when a group had planned to kill the prophet on the night of the Aqabah, on Thursday a few days before the passing away of the prophet, certain people did not allow the prophet to write his will because they believed that if the prophet were to write the will he would clearly state Ali as his successor and his household to be the rightful heirs. The third event where we can clearly see is that when the prophet had asked a certain few to go with Osama and join Zaid to fight against the Romans, they wouldn’t leave just because they thought that in their absence the caliphate shall be granted to Ali and they would miss the chance of ruling the growing Islamic empire.
 
So when Allah had decided not to mention the names of the Ahl Bayt in the Quran, the task was left upon the Prophet of Islam to pass this message to the true followers, and show the people his descendant, in the 23 years of Islamic propagation the Prophet would introduce Imam Ali as his heir and the caliph of Muslims after him. The example which we have here to show is when the Prophet had invited his near kin for dinner on the 3rd night of propagation, the prophet clearly mentioned that: “This Ali – my brother is my successor therefore listen to what he has to say and obey him.”
 
This is the procedure how the prophet conveyed the message of Allah about the caliphate of the Holy house hold, this way the message was also conveyed and the Quran was also protected from the vice of the evil.
 
Holy Quran says:
016: 44 with clear signs and Books (We sent the Messengers). and we have also sent down unto You (O Muhammad ) the Reminder and the advice (the Qur'ân), that You may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought.

 

 

 

 

Now concerning you saying that I bring things with out reference and doubt in my previous Hadith as follows from your books:

 

 

 

In Musanad Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, 
By Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, 
Verified and Investigated (commentated)

by Hamza Ahmad Al-Zain, Volume 16, page 28

 

He Said: Narrated by Zaid ibn Thabit, He said, The prophet  (saws) said: "I am leaving with you two Khalifas (successors), The book of Allah Rope between the heavens and the earth and my Offspring, My Ahlulbayt. They Will not separate until they meet me at the pond (of Kawthar," 

 

The Chain of Narrators, Hadith 21470, "The Chain is Hassan (good)"

 

here is the proof:

 

post-83202-0-69510000-1376640956_thumb.p post-83202-0-31630100-1376640974_thumb.j
 

 

____________________________


 

post-83202-0-15185700-1376234990_thumb.j




Wa Al salam.

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

      

 

     

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Sahih of "Al-Jami" Al Sagheer"

For the Scholar Al-Albani, the 1st Volume, page 482

Hadith 2457,  

The prophet   (pbuh) said: "I am leaving for you two Khalifas (successors), The Book of Allah, rope between the heavens and earth and my Offspring, My Ahlulbayt. They Will not separate until they meet me at the pond (of Kawthar," 

 

Al- Albani says: " It is a SAHIH (perfect)."

Proof:


 

 

post-83202-0-58410000-1376644804_thumb.ppost-83202-0-98360900-1376644808_thumb.p

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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Ithaf Al Khiyara Al-Mahara",

For the Imam Al-Haafiz Shahaab Ul-Deen Al-Buseeri

Introduced by Sheikh Dr, Ahmad Ma'bad, member of Council of Education in
Imam Muhammad bin Su'ood University, Revised (and reassured) by "dar Al-Mishkat" for Research.
Supervised by Abu Tameem Yassir Ibn Ibrahim, Volume 7, First edition, 1999, Al-Riyadah, Saudi Arabia.

Page 210: In the Door of " In the prophet's quote: 'Whoever I am his mater, Ali is his master.":

 

Narrated By Imam Ali: "The prophet   (pbuh) was there under the tree in (ghadeer) Khum. Then he came out 

and took Ali's Hand and said: 'Don't you testify that Allah is your Lord? they said: 'yes', Then he said: "don't you testify that Allah and his messenger have more right over you, than your own selves, and that Allah and his messenger are your masters?", They said: 'yes'. Then he said: 'whoever God and myself are his mastersthen He (Ali) is his mater. And I left in you that which if you take and Abide by, you would Never go astray,  God's book and My Ahlulbayt."

 

Narrated by Ishaaq, with a SAHIH (perfect) chain of narration

and said by Imam Al Booseeri, 'and the hadith of Ghadeer was directed by Al-Nisai'i.'

 

Proof:

 

post-83202-0-48352800-1376664211_thumb.jpost-83202-0-41490500-1376664239_thumb.j

 

 

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"Al-Jami'i Al-Kabeer" - Sunan Al Tirmidhi,

From Imam Al-Hafidh, revised by Shuaib al-Arnaoot,

Book (part) 6, page 235, Hadith 4120:

 

Narrated by Jabir Ibn Abdullah: " I Saw the prophet   (pbuh) in pilgrimage as he was on his camel

speaking. So I heard him Say: 'O people, I have left with you that which if you abide by, you will never go astray, God's Book (Quran) and My (holy) Family (Ahlulbayt)." 

 

We look at the footnotes:
 

Al-Arnaoot's view: This hadith is SAHIH (perfect)

Al-Arnaoot says: AL-Sindi in the explanation of "my Ahlulbayt": it was as if

the prophet (pbih) made them (family) equal in importance even to His position. 

'Just as in his   (pbuh) life, it was Him and the Quran, AFTER HIS LIFE, it was his FAMILY (Ahlulbayt) and

the Quran."




Poof:

 

post-83202-0-21710700-1376688577_thumb.ppost-83202-0-14836900-1376688590_thumb.jpost-83202-0-08675700-1376688605_thumb.p

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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Al - Sunnah : By Imam Abi Bakr Ahmad ibn Abi As'aim (287 AH)

Investigated by Dr Al Jawabra, Professor of Hadeeth at  Imam Muhammad Ibn Su'ood, University

Al- Sumai'y Institution  , Volume 2 page 799

 

The Messenger of Allah   (pbuh) said: "Ali your position to me, is like Harun to Mosa, Expect  

that there will be no prophet after me. and that you are Caliph ​of Every believer After me."
 

In Addition, the Hadith before that on the same page, Hadith 1221:

 

The propher (pbuh) said: "Ali is from me, and I am from Ali, and he is the WALI of every believer after me."

 

HADITH SAHIH AND THE SANAD IS SANAD MUSLIM.


In the commentary: Underneath it:
 

"The Chain of Narrators is Good, and Narrators are the narrators of the TWO SHEIKHS."


Proof:

 

post-83202-0-47413500-1376691971_thumb.ppost-83202-0-66111200-1376691981_thumb.jpost-83202-0-68438100-1376692007_thumb.p
 


 

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THE ISLAM HISTORY

Assalamu alaykum my beloved brother or sister in islam.

I am sorry if I have insulted you in any way, please accept my humble apology.

1. My dear Muslim brother sister I have one query regarding hadith of purity which you kindly pointed out above I also found the isentical hadith on al islam and seen something I would like you to answer me on.

http://www.al-islam.org/supplications/adiya/hadith-kisa.php

44O Allah! Bestow Your Blessings, Benevolence, Forgiveness and Your pleasure upon me and upon them. And remove impurity from them and keep them thoroughly pure"فَاجْعَلْ صَلَوَاتِكَ وَبَرَكَاتِكَ وَرَحْمَتِكَ وَغُفْرَانِكَ وَرِضْوَانِكَ عَلَيَّ وَعَلَيْهِمْ وَأَذْهِبْ عَنْهُمُ الرِّجْسَ وَطَهِّرهُمْ تَطْهِيراً 44

The whole ummah is unanimous regarding the prophet being infalliable. Our disagreements arise regarding the infalliability of the four beautiful members of the AHLE BAYT.

Sunnis say they are not whereas shia say yes.

Sunnis says that the holy prophet (pbuh) only did a dua for these 4 personalities that ya Allah( swt) please protect them from impurities ( sins).

SUNNIS point of view can be found in YOUR very hadith you humbly pointed out.

If you start with the hadith:

Allah! Bestow Your Blessings, Benevolence, Forgiveness and Your pleasure upon me and upon them.

It is well known that the holy prophet would cry and pray during the night for forgiveness not because he may have sinned ( astagfirullah) but out of three things fear, love and humbleness to the almighty. Only an ignorant fool or a non Muslim would use this as evidence against our great and blessed prophet (pbuh)

Now moving to the second part which is the most interesting:

And remove impurity from thrm and keep them thoroughly pure

Now here is where SUNNIS say is the flaw to infalliability of AHLE BAYT.

Let me explain. The holy prophet (pbuh) at the start refers to AHLE BAYT as US whereas when he asks for the removal of impurity switches and says THEM.

Now if AHLE BAYT were infalliable just like the prophet ( pbuh) then why the sudden switch from US to THEM??

Why not carry on using the word US instead of THEM???

If the holy prophet had said US in the second part then this would have proven that the AHLE BAYT are on the same level as prophet ie; infalliable.

... But the sudden change to THEM only proves that they were falliable and could indeed sin unlike the prophet (pbuh) who cannot sin at all.

2. Brother/sister yes you did indeed point to verses in the quran BUT none of them said that there will be imams after prophet (pbuh).

Yes prayer,zakat,hajj, tawhid, angels books etc are ALL mentioned precisely in the quran therefore we are able to THEN go to hadith and not vice versa.

Imamate is the foundation of islam just like all the other foundations yet we find precise verses mentioning all other foundations other than Imamate. So how can we skip quran and go straight to hadith. Please keep in mind two words PRECISE and FOUNDATION, please read surah 3 verse 7.

Regarding surah 3 verse , you have mistranslated it in your answer but for arguments sake I agree with you, there is a guide for every people.

Again once the foundation(s) are found in quran then and only then can we go to hadith not before.

I accept hadith only and only when the foundation is proven from quran.

Eg; if salah was NOT mentioned in quran and there were hadith saying pray it's furu ad din I would NOT pray. I'm not a quranist but if the foundation is not mentioned in quran the hadith go straight out of the window.

YOU SAID:

It is clear that warner (the Holy Prophet) is not physically alive and he is NOT IN THIS WORLD THAT HE COULD GUIDE people while the verse of Quran is saying, EVERY people (every nation) have a GUIDE. (There is a question mark My dear friend)

Yes indeed there is a massive question mark.

You said prophet cannot be a guide because he is not in this world.

My question to you is then who is THE GUIDE in this time, our time. If as this verse there will be a guide for every people as you interpretate it then who is here guiding us. If prophet is not guide as he is not physically in this world then how is imam mahdi physically in this world?? He may be here but what's the difference if he can't physically guide us??

You mentioned ali ibn abi talib is the guide but then what's the difference if he like all other 11 imams is not physically in this world to guide us??

The hadith you mentioned regarding ali as guide only proves my point that ali a.s was a guide only while he was alive just as prophet (pbuh) was guide when he was alive.

As a follower of AHLE sunnah wal jamaah (not to be confused with wahabbis) we believe ali a.s was the first SPIRITUAL guide (peer) as Allah referred to ali as friend of all believers wali maula etc.

The guidance of ali a.s for believers in the hadith is spiritual (peer) and not political. He was not appointed nor was he infalliable but his devotion to islam prayer and sacrifice for islam got him this high status of peer and maula or wali (friend) of every believer.

The verses you kindly pointed out in the quran are not telling us of imams in THIS ummah but telling us of imams in previous ummah's.

If you want to prove Imamate is a foundation of islam you MUST first prove it from quran as surah 3 verse 7 says THEN we go to hadith.

Salah is precisely mentioned in the quran that's why we can then go to hadith not vice versa.

Quran is first then hadith, quran tells us WHAT to do, then hadith tells us HOW to do it.

YOU SAID:

007.176 If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect.

This verse is about a scholar (Alim) named Bal'am Ba'oora, who lived in the time of Prophet Moses. Bal'am was a great scholar of Prophet Moses' time. He was a great power of Prophet Moses against Pharaoh (Feron). Eventually Pharaoh misguided him by giving him some promises...

By this verse we come to know that even the great scholar can make mistake so most definitely ordinary people can make more serious and grave mistakes.

Were three caliphs nominated by Allah? Can you prove that?

Yes indeed scholars do make mistakes that's why we are told to refer back to Allah (swt)and prophet(pbuh) quran and authentic hadith in surah 4:59, this proves ulil amr is falliable.

YOU SAID:

13:43 And those who disbelieve say: You are not a messenger Say: Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you and whoever has knowledge of the Book

Surely in this verse prophet Mohammad (Saws) cannot be the person who has knowledge of the Book.

If you pay attention to the verse you will find, that unbelievers are saying to Prophet (saws), you are not messenger. In this situation Prophet (saws) is the one who is accused by unbelievers so he cannot be the witness.

Yes you're right but the ones who have "knowledge of the book" are the scribes and the ones who were with the prophet..sahaba.

YOU SAID:

1."Whoever has knowledge of the Book" means Allah. There is only one witness mentioned in Quran and that is Allah.

2."Whoever has knowledge of the Book" means those Jews (Ahle Kitab) who entered Islam. One of those people is Abdullah Ben Salam who was a Jewish scholar. When he saw that the signs of Torat (Kitab) are corresponding to Prophet Mohammad (Saws), he converted to Islam. He was the person who had knowledge of book; it means he knew the sign of Prophet (saws) are mentioned in Torat (Old Testament).

3."Whoever has knowledge of the Book" means Jebrail (Gabriel) because he the one who brings the revelation, he should have the knowledge of book.

4."Whoever has knowledge of the Book" means that ONLY Imam Ali has the knowledge of Book.

MY ANSWER

I strongly disagree with you when you say ONLY imam ali had knowledge of the book. What about the scribes the prophets (pbuh) wives sahaba who used to be close to prophet and ask constant questions regarding verses of the quran.

We have authentic narrations where other sahaba are said to have this great position which you have only given to ali a.s

Let me make one thing clear I am NOT a NASIBI and I love ali a.s he is our first peer. I'm not saying you've called me a NASIBI but just wanted to clarify this.

YOU SAID:

I will now continue Concerning the “Ūli’ l-’Amr” the opinion of the Ahl ul-Sunna is unsupported by proofs. They claim that Ūli’ l-’Amr means the ruler! What if the ruler is unjust? What if he is not an expert in religious affairs? What if he is a slave of material desires? Is obedience obligatory towards him even if he himself disobeys his Lord? Such a situation creates contradictions. However, all these things are beyond the scope of our discussion.

MY ANSWER.

This is why in verse 4:59 we are told "if we differ " with ulil amr" refer it back to Allah swt and prophet (pbuh) quran and hadith.

If ulil amr does anything against islam we are to refer them back to quran and hadith to correct them, then if they still disobey then jihad should be declared against them as imam zayd ibn ali a.s did and abu hanifah supported his view.

YOU SAID:

To consider the command of obedience of Ūli’ l-’Amr to be restricted to a particular group is against the import of the Qur’anic ayat. This is because Allah (S.w.T.) has not ordered the obedience of Ūli’ l-’Amr separately: He has included the obedience of Ūli’ l-’Amr alongwith that of the Holy Prophet (S). Thus the obedience of Ūli’ l-’Amr is the obedience of the Holy Prophet (S). There is no difference between the obedience of the Prophet (S) and the obedience of Ūli’ l-’Amr. The obedience of the Holy Prophet (S) and the Ūli’ l-’Amr is compulsory upon everyone. It is not restricted to a few people. If we consider Ūli’ l-’Amr to include all types of rulers it would not be correct. Ūli’ l-’Amr are those who are purified from every kind of mistakes and sins: So that they could be obeyed without any reservations.

MY ANSWER

obeying ulil amr is only obligotary ONLY IF THEY FOLLOW QURAN AND HADITH. If they say for eg; don't pray then we refer them back to Allah (swt) and prophet (pbuh) quran and hadith.

The very fact that Allah says IF you differ proves that they would be falliable so we are then told in the second part of the verse how to deal with such leaders.

YOU ASKED:

Are the Religious Scholars Ūli’ l-’Amr?

MY ANSWER

Yes.. Because if am khamenei makes a fatwa like the one regarding not to curse sahaba then it is obligatory for you to follow him unless you differ regarding something he may do against Muslim tea hints which is why you are then told to refer back to Allah (swt) and prophet(pbuh) and come to a conclusion on who is right you or ulil amr.

YOU SAID:

The Twelve Imams Are Ūli’ l-’Amr

Numerous books of the Sunnis as well as Shia record traditions that the Ūli’ l-’Amr are the Twelve Imams. The following tradition is regarded as authentic by the Sunnis as well as the Shias.

MY ANSWER

Could you tell me where is this authentic hadith on sunni books??

YOU SAID:

Obviously rulers obtain their authority in one of these ways:

1. They are appointed by ijma (consensus)

2. They gain power by force.

3. They are divinely commissioned.

We SUNNIS took option one from the start whereas shia chose option 3 and now have chosen option one.

So since you have chosen option 1, you like us use ulil amr verse when you deal with them, you refer them back to Allah (swt) and prophet ( pbuh) if the mess up. Which you do now, so joe can ulil amr be infalliable and then all of a sudden in this day and age become falliable??

YOU SAID:

If a leader gains authority by consensus of the community, it is not compulsory to obey him as one obeys Allah or the Prophet. It is not possible for all Muslims to appoint a just ruler since, however wise or conscientious they may be, they can only judge a man by appearance. They cannot read his heart or know the degree of his faith.

MY ANSWER

this is exactly what I gave been saying obeying ulil amr is only compulsory as long as they do not do anything against islam. Of course we dont know what's inside their heart but as long as they do not knowingly or unknowingly act against islam we must obey them, for the sake of unity and to avoid bloodshed in the ummah.

YOU SAID:

If anyone claims that obedience to wicked rulers is compulsory (and some ulema have really said that), it would be quite contrary to the Qur'anic injunctions. Allah has frequently cursed sinners in the Holy Qur'an and has forbidden Muslims to obey them. So how is it possible that in this verse He would order us to obey sinners? Obviously, we cannot attribute two divergent orders to Allah Almighty. Hence, Imam Fakhru'd-din Razi clearly says regarding this holy verse that the 'uli'l-amr' must possess perfect integrity. Otherwise, Allah would not have linked our duty to obey them with our duty to obey Allah Himself and the Holy Prophet.

MY ANSWER

This is why we are told if we differ because of some wrong the ulil amr may do we are told to in the second part of verse to refer it back to Allah (swt) and prophet ( pbuh).

YOU SAID:

According to the Shias, the 'uli'l-amr' must be free from sin and infallible

MY ANSWER.

Then why are we told to refer back to Allah (swt) and prophet(pbuh) and not still obey ulil amr.

Surely if ulil amr was infalliable Allah wouldn't have said second part of verse.

Allah would have said something like:

Obey Allah (swt) messenger ( pbuh) and ulil amr and do NOT DIFFER with ulil amr.

If this was the verse then we would have known that is compulsory to obey ulil amr as we are told not to differ.

So if we are not allowed to differ with ulil amr then this would have proven that he is indeed infalliable otherwise why would Allah (swt) say do NOT differ with ulil amr??

YOU SAID

Because the names and numbers of the twelve Imams are not mentioned in the Holy Qur'an, some people do not accept them. But on that basis they should reject their own caliphs since no verse of the Holy Qur'an makes any mention of their caliphs, except Ali Bin Abi Talib, or of the Umayyad or Abbasid caliphs, or of the authority vested in the Community to elect a caliph by consensus.

you need to understand that caliphate is just a worldly leadership like governments nowadays so if I like the shia say I do not accept abu bakr umar etc like shia do as caliphs then I'm still Muslim because its not my fundamental belief to believe that they were true successors whereas for shia it is the very FOUNDATION of their aqidah so they have to believe in their imams and not to do so takes one out of the folds of islam, as this is a FOUNDATION of their aqidah.

So since caliphate is not the foundation of my aqidah nobody can say anything to me if I refuse to accept any of the caliphs as rulers.

YOU SAID:

Second, if it is necessary to reject anything which is not clearly stated in the Holy Qur'an, then you should reject many of the methods of our worship since there is no mention of their details in the Holy Qur'an.

You're totally missing the point. I'm not asking you to name your imams by name in the quran nor am I even asking you for a verse which says 12. All I'm asking for is a PRECISE verse of Imamate in quran saying simply after prophet (pbuh) there will be imams for THIS ummah since its a FOUNDATION of islam according to shia as surah 3 verse 7 says.

Salah is PRECISELY mentioned so now I can go to hadith.

YOU SAID:

THE NUMBER OF CALIPHS AFTER THE HOLY PROPHET IS TWELVE

MY ANSWER

Firstly I've explained to you regarding self fulfilling prophecy, please go and read about it.

Secondly our hadith says QURAISH and not AHLE BAYT secondly their is no mention of them being appointed by Allah.

Also I'm. Not sure if you're aware my brother/sister in islam but khalifa does not only mean political leadership, it could also mean spiritual leadership as us SUNNIS believe that after prophet ali was one of the spiritual caliph (peer)

http://m.dictionary.com/d/?q=caliph

This is how we SUNNIS (not wahabbis) interpretate these hadiths ali was our first (peer)

Salams

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(bismillah)

 

Dear brother, Thank you for replying. And Taking the time to read my responses, May Allah increase your knowledge and mine of what we can come about/bring about on this debate. May Allah guide us on the straight path and to the readers this post, I wish, that it will become of most benefit whom who ever reads it Inshalla.

 

 

 

1.) Very well pointed out & explained, very good points you have made.

Now if analyze what you have nicely stated from the Hadith Al Kisa: 44 in the Al-Islam site.

 

فَاجْعَلْ صَلَوَاتِكَ وَبَرَكَاتِكَ وَرَحْمَتِكَ وَغُفْرَانِكَ وَرِضْوَانِكَ عَلَيَّ وَعَلَيْهِمْ وَأَذْهِبْ عَنْهُمُ الرِّجْسَ وَطَهِّرهُمْ تَطْهِيراً

44. O Allah! Bestow Your Blessings, Benevolence, Forgiveness and Your pleasure upon me and upon them. And remove impurity from them and keep them thoroughly pure"

 

 

Yes as you can see, what the prophet stated was very clear. The prophet (pbuh) as you claimed yes he has used "us" In the the term when saying "Me & them" in Following Hadith, he has has as you can see, was always referring to his Ahlullbayt (as). Now this is a very good point so lets analyze this part of the hadith (44). Now as you can see the prophet (s) is asking Allah to bestow his blessings, benevolence, forgiveness, pleasure on "me and them." (us), We see here has included himself with them and switch's to just "them." as you stated. But my dear brother, the word "US" is different in the Arabic language as you know its Arabic it would be said as: " علينا" (us) but the prophet (s) instead said: "عليَّ و عليهم" at first and then like you said he switched to them (عليهم). You see, You need to look at the initial beginning of the haith (Duas) as you can see, the prophet (s) started with in his Dua and look at what he says about his beloved Ahlulbayt, truly it tears the Faithfuls heart:
 

 

(35-43)

 

"O Allah, these are the people of my Household (Ahlul-Bayt). They are my confidants and my supporters.

اللَّهُمَّ إِنَّ هَؤُلاءِ أَهْلُ بَيْتِى وَخَآصَّتِى وَحَآمَّتِي، 

 

 

 

As you can see my dear friend the prophet (s) starts the Dua by addressing His Ahlulbayt (s), therefore the Dua that that prophet (s) is making, is not for him, but for them, ad you know he is the prophet (s) he at very rare cases prayers for himself, and you can see he is addressing his Ahlulbayt and not him self and when he comes to the line when he says: " وَأَذْهِبْ عَنْهُمُ الرِّجْسَ وَطَهِّرهُمْ تَطْهِيراً", as you see his saying "Remove Impurity" from them, and I'm sure me and you know, that the the Dua of the prophet (s) is always answered and cannot be rejected my dear brother. So in this mean, we know that Allah Has Removed "All" impurity from them, in the Arabic term "Rijs" and the word "Rijs" in verse (33:33) has got the article "al-" at its beginning which makes the word universal. Thus "al-Rijs" means "Every Kind of impurity". Also at the end of the verse, Allah states "and purify you a Perfect purification." The word "perfect" comes from the emphasis of "Tat'hiran". This is the only place in Quran that Allah uses the emphasis of "perfect purification".

 

as we can see in the Holy verse (33:33)

 

 إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا

 

Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with purification.

 

Now, You have to ask your self, When Allah (S.W.T) himself says he "Intends", does that mean only Intends and does not Do (action)? No, Of course not, Istraghfrallah, When Allah Intends, then it Will happen, because Allah is Absolute and The First and the last, and what he says is Done, and What he Creates is His, What he Intendeds to do He will Do. We Simple Human Beings for example in Ramadan we Intend to Fast for 30 days, correct? But what if we get sick? or we have to travel due to the circumstances that we may face? injury or illness?, we then are forced to break our fast which we intended in the first place, correct?, but when Allah Intends to do something, what can possibly stop him? (istghrallah), He is the Creator him self, and nothing is impossible in his power, and his power extends to the beyond that is Unimaginable. So my dear friend here it becomes clear that Allah Has removed All Kinds of Impurity (sin) from Ahlulbayt (s). But now you ask your self dos that mean that before this Dua (kisa) or verse (purification) the Ahlulbayt (including the prophet (s)) Where able to do sin before the Dua (kisa) or verse (purification)?. No my dear brother, even before the Dua and the verse, they were already pure from All sin. The prophet (s) Received the revelation when he was 40. But in Reality he Already knew he was a prophet (s) he was born a believer and his linage never committed Shirk whatsoever, So this is Vise-verse to Ahlulbayt Including the prophet (s), they already knew and were already purified. Now my dear friend, Allah the creator of humans and the entire universe has blessed man with a mind and the intelligence to distinguish between bad and good. The Almighty Allah has bestowed his blessings upon us and guided us to the right path. Allah send his faultless and saintly people to guide humanity and these messengers of Allah carry through this objective by spreading the teachings of Allah and they spend their lives in the manner that Allah  wishes of them. They seek to instill this behavior that Allah desires amongst fellow humans. It is necessary to believe that these messengers of Allah are infallible both before and after they declared their prophethood to the people. 

 

Dear brother, If we believe that a prophet was subject to misdemeanors before declaring his prophethood then people would automatically consider him to be a sinner, the people would reject his teachings they would have misgivings doubts over his prophethood and this would make the entire concept of prophethood fruitless.

 

If we were to entertain the thought that prophets can commit sin after declaring their Prophethood to the people then this is even more dangerous. How can a Messenger of God tell others to refrain from sinning when he is himself a sinner? If we accept that a prophet can forget and make mistakes then the authenticity of divine law can be called into question as one that can forget things can also forget the message of Allah, worse he could incorrectly convey the message of Allah. This belief is unacceptable, since no one can have faith in an individual that is unsure over something he said / did. It is therefore necessary to believe that Allah has selected pure innocent people as Guides whose sole objective shall be to guide others to the right path.

 

This chain of prophetic guidance came to an end with Hadhrath Muhammad al Mustafa (s). It is an accepted fact that no man submits himself to an individual that shares the same traits as him. Allah would never give preference to an illiterate person over a literate and sensible individual, as this would contravene justice. That is why Allah bestowed infallibility, literacy, wisdom and knowledge to his prophets. We deem Prophet Muhammad (s) to be the most learned of all individuals, and this is based on two facts:

The first, there exists no one in the universe who possesses the complete knowledge of Qur’an as Muhammad (s) has. When all knowledge is bestowed in Allah’s book then is clear that he who possesses a complete knowledge of that Book is the most learned and second Allah says in the Holy Qur’an:

 

O Prophet (Muhammad) PBUH&HP we have taught you every thing, which you didn’t know before (Quran Sura Nisa 5, Verses 113)

 

The fact that Allah conveyed news of the hidden to Rasulullah (s) also gives him a rank of superiority above all other creations. Often people have considered the word ‘Ummi’ to mean illiterate but it means one who lives in Makkah that is why the Prophet (s) was referred to as Ummi by Allah.

 

I hope that this will clear your doubt my dear friend now lets continue shall we?

As we keep reading hadith kisa as you can see the prophet (s) saying:

 

 

"Their flesh is my flesh and their blood is my blood........Whoever hurts them, hurts me too.

 

Whoever displeases them, displeased me too..........I am at war with those at war with them.

 

I am at peace with those at peace with them..........I am the enemies of their enemies and

I am the friend of their friends.........................They are from me and I am from them."

                                 

 

My dear respected brother, Look at what the prophet (s) is saying. He is the enemy of their enemies,

he is at War, with those who are at war with them, brother focus now, what are we going to say to Muawayiah who

fought Imam Ali? what are we going to say to Aysha who fought Imam Ali (s) as well? what are we going to say to Yazid Who not

only fought Imam Hussain (s), but killed his Companions, his Baby who was only 6 months years old (abduallah al rathe'e),

What are we going to say to the Sahabah who fought against the Imam Ali on the war of Jamal and Siffen? Can you not see?
Look at the clear proof I gave you (scanned) of the following Hadith:
 

Narrated By Imam Ali: "The prophet (s) was there under the tree in (ghadeer) Khum. Then he came out 

and took Ali's Hand and said: 'Don't you testify that Allah is your Lord? they said: 'yes', Then he said: "don't you testify that Allah and his messenger have more right over you, than your own selves, and that Allah and his messenger are your masters?", They said: 'yes'. Then he said: 'whoever God and myself are his mastersthen He (Ali) is his mater. And I left in you that which if you take and Abide by, you would Never go astray,  God's book and My Ahlulbayt."

 

Narrated by Ishaaq, with a SAHIH (perfect) chain of narration

and said by Imam Al Booseeri, 'and the hadith of Ghadeer was directed by Al-Nisai'i.'

  

(for the scanned proof, please look at the previous post)

My dear brother, Are you telling me that three months before the prophet (saws) died, he mounted Ghadir Khum, 

and Lifted Ali (s) and Declared he is the Master after the prophet (s), and with that he said if you hold on to these

two you will never go astray, "The Book Of Allah" and "My Ahlulbayt." , So what are we going to say here now brother?
If The messenger of Allah said: The Book of Allah and Ahlulbayt that means these two are so great that they come with the Quran

and We MUST hold on to them, so that we will never go astray. But now I want you to think, if the people Fought against Ahlulbayt (s),
In the war of Siffin and jamal and others, that means they Disobeyed The prophet (s) And that means they do not follow the Quran and they prophet said "The book of Allah AND by Ahlulbayt.", so y dear brother how can someone attack Ahlulbayt and claim that he follows the prophet (s) and the Quran?. I have given you Sahih Hadiths my dear brother, One of them was in Musanad Ahmad ibn Hanbal as follows:

 

He Said: Narrated by Zaid ibn Thabit, He said, The prophet  (saws) said: "I am leaving with you two Khalifas (successors), The book of Allah Rope between the heavens and the earth and my Offspring, My Ahlulbayt. They Will not separate until they meet me at the pond (of Kawthar," 

 

The Chain of Narrators, Hadith 21470, "The Chain is Hassan (good)"

(please check the scanned proof)

 

_________________________________________

 

 

My brother, its seems you yet again May have misunderstood the verses that I pointed out as they were very clear, I shall now state them with clear evidences I hope that we are able to come to a consensus.

Now as I stated Earlier the following verse:

 

وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَوْلَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْهِ آيَةٌ مِّن رَّبِّهِ ۗ إِنَّمَا أَنتَ مُنذِرٌ ۖ وَلِكُلِّ قَوْمٍ هَادٍ

 

"And those who disbelieved say, "Why has a sign not been sent down to him from his Lord?" You are only a warner, and for every people is a guide." (3:7)

 

Brother look Carefully When we talk about Imamah, and yes you are right it could mean many things, but This is the Quran that is been revealed to the prophet (s) And Allah Is telling the prophet (s), that "you are the Warner", and for every Ummah (qo'um in Arabic) as mentioned in the Quran, there is a Guide. So the Warner and the Guide both have a DUTY From Allah in the Ummah (people), and now it becomes clear my dear brother, Imamah is to lead & guide. As I have shown you in the Hadiths, but seems you missed them. In your Own Tafsir In Al Tabari and in Ruh Al mani is says that Ali (s) is the guide and the prophet (s) is the warner.

It is logical that a system of guidance had to exist to ensure the correct understanding of Allah's teachings. This system of guidance through an Imam, is an eternal one and will be provided to all people. In this connection as we have read earlier in Surah rad, verse 7, In Addition have a look at the translation by Maudoodi in the Meaning of the Qur’an Volume 5 page 187

 

 

You are a warner only, and to every people has its guide”.

 

The role of a warner is bring potential risks / hazards to the attention of an audience, he is there to highlists risks and can offer a leave appropriate guidance to counter such risks. Every Prophet (s) was tasked with the duty of a Warner:

 

035.024 [YUSUFALI]:
Verily We have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past).

 

004.165 [YUSUFALI]:
Messengers who gave good news as well as warning, that mankind, after (the coming) of the messengers, should have no plea against Allah: For Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

 

Notice by dear brother, how Allah, does not refer to any of them as Guides. A guide takes on the next role, he is there to take on the teachings of the warner and will correctly interpret the guidance, and will practically assists the audience with regards to how to stay aloof from hazards / dangers, and ensure that the guidance left by the warner is adhered to. Now coing to this verse, if the system of divine guidance terminated with the death of Prophet Muhammad (s), then why would Allah not refer to Muhammad (s) as a Witness and a Guide? Allah identified two separate roles in this verse the role of Warner for Rasulullah (s) and a Guide for every people. We see a seperation of roles here, Rasulullah (s) is there to warn the people, whilst a Guide is there to aid the people. When Rasulullah (s) was a warner and for every people there will be a Guide then who is that Guide? We know that Prophethood ended, yet in this verse Allah h still mentions that guidance for the people will continue, it will not just vanish with the death of the Prophet (s). This ayat is a mere reiteration of a key theme of the Holy Qur’an: the constant, living presence of Divine guides who are not chosen by the Muslims of the time, but are appointed by God Himself. Of interest is the fact that Suyuti in his commentary of this verse narrates as follows:

 

Ibn Jareer narrates from Iqramah, “When this verse descended, Rasul Allah places his hand on his chest and said, I am the Warner, and then placed his hand on the shoulder of Ali and said, Ya Ali! You are the guide, and after me those seeking guidance will attain it through you.”

Ibn Murdayyah narrates from Abi Barzah ®, says, I have heard Rasul (saww) saying, that when this verse was descended, (I am a warner) while first placing his hand on his chest, and then on Ali’s chest (for every people there is a guide).

Ibn Abbas narrates, Rasul (saww) said, I am the warner and Ali is the guide. Abdulah bin Ahmad in Zawaid un-Musnad, Ibn Abi Hathim in Tabrani fil-Ausat and Hakim in his Sahih, Ibn Marduyyah and Ibn Asakir narrates from Ali (as) saying: “Rasul (saww) read the verse then I said Rasul is the warner and I am the guide.” 

 

-Tafsir Al Tabari and Ruhalmani
 

 

and Here is proof from Tafsir al Tabari and Ruhalmani.


Tafsir RuhAlmani:

 

post-83202-0-01471600-1376726665_thumb.jpost-83202-0-34435700-1376726691_thumb.j

 

 

Tafsir Al Tabari:

 

 

post-83202-0-55355000-1376726762_thumb.jpost-83202-0-87247800-1376726779_thumb.j

 

 

 

Its very Clear my Dear bother, This verse is proof of Imamat of Imam Ali (as), In addition with the Authentic Ahadih I provided with Scanned proof. Please try to comprehend with Logic, Did the prophet (s) say this to Abu Bakr? Uthman? Umar ibn Al Khatab? Did he raise their hands and say Who ever I am his Master, He is his master? What about The Day of Mubahla? Did the prophet (s), Take Abu Bakr with him? Uthman? umar ibn Al kattab?, No my dear Brother, These people took the right of Imam Ali (s) during the Pen and paper day (Saqifa).

 

 

Do you know the day of Mubahala? I'm sure you do, When the Christians and their Popes challenged the prophet (s) in a Mubahala Here I would like to bring another evidence from Sahih Muslim and Sahih al-Tirmidhi that why the wives of the Prophet are not included in Ahlul-Bayt, which is also, by the way, another reason for the superiority of Ali (as) for the position of leadership after the Prophet (s).the incident is related to the event of "Mubahala" (which means imprecation, or invoking the curse of Allah upon the liar), which took place in the 9th-10th year of Hijrah. In that year a delegation consisting of 14 Christian priests came from Najran to meet the Prophet (s). When they met the Prophet they asked him what is his opinion about Jesus (as). The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "You may take rest today and you will receive the reply afterwards." The next day, 3 verses of Quran (3:59-61) about Jesus were revealed. When Christians did not accept the words of Allah, The Prophet recited the last revealed verse:

 

 

But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and our selves and your selves; then let us be earnest in prayer and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars. (Quran 3:61).

 

فَمَنْ حَاجَّكَ فِيهِ مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ فَقُلْ تَعَالَوْا نَدْعُ أَبْنَاءَنَا وَأَبْنَاءَكُمْ وَنِسَاءَنَا وَنِسَاءَكُمْ وَأَنفُسَنَا وَأَنفُسَكُمْ ثُمَّ نَبْتَهِلْ فَنَجْعَل لَّعْنَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَى الْكَاذِبِينَ

 

 

In this way, the Prophet (s) challenged the Christians. The next day the Christian priests came out on one side of the field. Also on the other side, the Prophet came out of his house carrying al-Husain in his arm with al-Hasan walking along with him while he was holding his hand. Behind him was Fatimah al-Zahra, and behind her was Ali, peace be upon them all. When the Christians saw the five pure souls, and how determined the Prophet is in his idea that he put the closest people to him at risk, the Christians were terrified and abstained from the proposed malediction (Mubahala) and submitted to a treaty with the Prophet (s).

 

al-Suyuti (I hope you know him) who was a great Sunni scholar and he wrote:

 

 

In the above verse (3:61), according to what Jabir Ibn Abdillah al-Ansari (the great companion of the Prophet) said, the word "sons" refers to al-Hasan and al-Husain, the word "women" refers to Fatimah, and the word "our selves" refer to the Prophet and Ali. Thus Ali is referred as "the self" of the Prophet (Nafs of the Prophet).

 

In his Book Dur Almanthur V3, page 608-609:

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As you can see both Buhkari and Muslim Have Confirmed it, In addition in Sunan Timirdhi and Nas'ai. My dear brother as you can see  It follows that just as it is unlawful to seek to be superior to the Prophet, similarly it is unlawful to supersede Ali (who is the "self" of the Prophet according to the words of Allah). Any one who presumed to supersede Ali, was, in essence, presumed to supersede the Prophet! This is another Quranic proof for the right of Imam Ali as the immediate successor of the Prophet (s).

Muslim and al-Tirmidhi both confirm the above incident, and recorded the following tradition in their authentic collections of traditions:

 

Narrated Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas:

 

...And when the verse 3:61 was revealed, the Prophet called Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain. Then the Prophet said: "O Lord! These are my family members (Ahli)." 

 

 

   Narrated Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas:

 

 references from your own sources ( If you are still not Satisfied I will Upload the Scanned version also ) 

  • Sahih Muslim, Chapter of virtues of companions, section of virtues of Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1871, the end of tradition #32.
  • Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p654
  • al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p150, who said this tradition is authentic based on the criteria set by two Shaikhs, al-Bukhari and Muslim.
  • Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, p25

    

Now my dear brother, Where is Abu bakr? Where Ummar Ibn Al khatab? Where uthman? Are they greater then Ahlulbayt? as you can see its very clear on who we should follow my dear brother. And The viewers of this Post,
Well also say the same. Insahlla.


Dear brother, Now concerning the Imamate in he Quran, you can not clearly see, its meant for the appointed Successor Imam Ali (s),
and that throughout the the whole span of time of this world, All the prophets and Imams where not elected, but they were chosen by Allah and only by Allah, for only Allah has the right to Put Divine Authority on earth. Can you please give me one verse where it says Imamah (guidance, Leader) can be chosen by the people? you will no doubt fine nothing my dear brother. Imamah has clearly been mentioned in the Quran and the following ahadith I posted, supports it.

 

Now concerning the Verse of Ulu'Almar. in the Quran:

 

“O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority (Ulul-Amr) from among you (min kum).”(Qur’an 4:59).

 

My dear brother, As you can see the verse clearly states that we must obey the following:

1) Allah Who Infallible (beyond) (istagfrallah he is the creator)
2) The prophet (s) Who is indeed infallible

3) U'lu al Amr (Authority from among you).......Fallible?   

brother how is this possible, Do you think that anyone can be Ul'u Almar? Just because he follows the Ahdadith and Quran?
No my dear brother, that is impossible, there are many reasons for this. Allah Cannot say to you "randomly Follow someone" as long has he follows the Quran and the Hadith, and there are man reasons for this also. As you can see he has told us to obey the prophet who is indeed infallible and then Ul'uAlmar who you say "fallible" so in short you mean Allah is saying: "Obey me (infallible), and the prophet (infallible) and Ulualamr (fallible). how can Allah tell you to "Obey" the one who does mistakes? He made read the Quran and ahadith, but he is still capable of committing sin, what if he changes? will than you change Allah tell you to obey?, therefore my friend this is Invalid point. Brother, Allah never say "If" in this verse it is clearly being said as a "Command", from Allah. as you can see in its full verse form:

 


يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ ۖ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا

 

"O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result."
 

Now my dear brother you can see at the near end of the holy verse it says "If you Disagree over anything, Refer it to Allah and tge messenger correct? and then he says "If you believe in "Allah" and "the last day" which if you don't it makes you a disbeliever. Now How can we refer to the messenger and Allah? No doubt Allah through the Quran. How can we refer to the messenger if he has passed away the answer is clear my brother, the prophet (s) left two Khalifa's and I gave you the Authentic Hadith, so you cannot Question unless you reject the 2 sahihs and 4 sahihs and 3 primary sources. So who did The prophet (s) leave behind? its very clear as I have shown you proof (scanned also) and that its Authentic, here is one of the following:

 

In Musanad Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, 
By Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, 
Verified and Investigated (commentated)

by Hamza Ahmad Al-Zain, Volume 16, page 28

 

He Said: Narrated by Zaid ibn Thabit, He said, The prophet  (saws) said: "I am leaving with you two Khalifas (successors), The book of Allah Rope between the heavens and the earth and my Offspring, My Ahlulbayt. They Will not separate until they meet me at the pond (of Kawthar," 

 

The Chain of Narrators, Hadith 21470, "The Chain is Hassan (good)"

 

 

See my brother, How clear it is before your eyes? He has left Ahlulbayt in charge with no doubt. And I explained to you that they are Infallible, and this proves that the verse of U'li Al mar are Infallible. And Dear heavens no, a Scholar for example as you said such as Sayed Ali Khamenei, he cannot be Ul'iAlmar my dear brother, First because he is not a member of Ahlulbayt, and the second, because he is no infallible and third there are any like him, and yet Allah says "Obey" as he is giving a direct commandment, therefore it cannot refer to as many people as you claimed. Yes like the rest of the Scholars he can give Fatwa? but was is Fatwa? It is not a "New law" nor it is a "New Commandment", it is simple a restriction on a certain issue that is Newly to the Society and that "Restriction"

is based on The "Islamic Laws of the Quran", therefore it is not over what you stated. In addition If you say that the Scholars are U'lu Al mar, then who should I obey? Allah has told me to Obey? but who? how do I know who is U'lu al Amr? they have not been identified, but only told of. You see my brother, it is clear that they are non other than the Ahlulbayt (s) as the prophet has left them as Khalifa's (guides) after him. Also according to the Ahlul-Sunnah, You have to Obey Ali (s) and the prophet has said so and in Tafseer Al Kabeer its Stated clear that Ul'i Almar is Ali (s), the Ahulbayt (s) in the following verses:

 

We should also take into account Surah Al Ahzab, verse 36:

 

“It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path”

 

This verse is applicable all times, Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì states that a resolution exists to resolve all matters, and the Book of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì exists to resolve all issues, this is the final authority and no one is permitted to go outside of a decision made by Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and his Prophet (s).

 

“But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.” The words used here ‘Thanaza” -dispute will have significance later Surah Nisa verse 65

 

These verses evidence that fact that a solution for all matters can be located within the Qur’an and Sunnah. In this connection let us ponder over the comments of Imam Fakhradeen Razi who said as follows in his discussion of this verse that forms part of his critique against our beliefs in Ulil Amr:

 

The type of obedience that Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì has ordered is unconditional obedience, it must relate to that individual who is ma’sum, if he was non ma’sum and could mistakes, then Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì would be telling us to follow such a person and adhere to him Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì told us to follow the Ul il Amr unconditionally, he MUST be Ma’sum, a fact that is testified to by this verse”.

 

 

We read in Sahih al Bukhari Volume 9, Book 89, Number 306:

 

Narrated Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri:
The Prophet said, “Allah never sends a prophet or gives the Caliphate to a Caliph but that he (the prophet or the Caliph) has two groups of advisors: A group advising him to do good and exhorts him to do it, and the other group advising him to do evil and exhorts him to do it. But the protected person (against such evil advisors) is the one protected by Allah.’ ”

 

The word used in the above Hadith for “the protected person” is “Masoom”.The tradition clearly shows that these people are the prophets and their successors (Caliphs). The tradition also illuminates the fact that Allah bestows the position of Caliphate to the Caliph which implies that the infallible Caliph is the one who is assigned by Allah, not by people which corroborates Shia Aqeedah.
Now that we know that Masum leaders exist in the Ummah, we can relate their leadership to this Hadith in Sahih al Muslim, Kitab al Imara Book 020, Number 4518:

 

It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Holy prophet (may peace be upon him) said: Whoso obeys me obeys God, and whoso disobeys me disobeys God. Whoso obeys the commander (appointed by me) obeys me, and whoso disobeys the commander disobeys me. The same tradition transmitted by different persons omits the portion: And whose disobeys the commander disobeys me.

 

The Prophet (s) did not place any condition in this Hadith when it came to obeying the Leader. The words of the Prophet (s) make reference to absolute obedience, but why not? Why have the Sunni Ulema placed the condition that the leader must rule in accordance with the Qur’an and Sunnah? Why did Abu Bakr state that his leadership was restricted to this nature? The position of the Sunni clergy is at variance to the Hadith of the Prophet (s) who deemed obedience to the leader to be unconditional and was on par with obeying Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and his Prophet (s). The Prophet (s) would never instruct us to unconditionally obey a Leader who himself fell in and out of religious guidance, so who is the Ameer (Commander) whose obedience is unconditional and is on par with obeying Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and his Prophet (s)? Alhamdolillah the answer was provided by the Prophet (s) himself who said:

 

“Whoever obeys ‘Ali, obeys me, whoever obeys me, obeys Allah, whoever disobeys ‘Ali disobeys me, whoever disobeys me, disobeys Allah”

  1. Kanz ul Ummal, Page 614, Hadith numbers 32974 & 32977
  2. Mustadrak al Hakim, Vol. 3, Page 128
  3. Riyadh ul Nadira, Vol. 3, Page 110

 

Now concerning Imam Mahdi (A.F) yes you question is very true, how can an Imam which we cannot see guide us Physically? but can exist at the same time. This is a very Good Question. Dear brother, Before I answer this, you should know that when you are believing In Imam Mahdi (A.F) than your believe that is is Infallible. Why? its very Clear. If such a person can only be chosen, By Allah, than how can he be Fallible? when he is chosen by God him self, also All sects of Islam agree (according to Authentic Ahadith) The Prophet Jesus Will pray behind him. So now my dear brother how can a prophet who is Infallible pray behind a Fallible? Therefore this cannot be, He must be Infallible as he is only chosen my Allah and the prophet Jesus (s) prayer behind him. Now your saying how can he guide us When he is Hidden. Now I don't know whether you believe he is Born or Unborn, so I will go over the issue.

 

My dear brother the Imam Mahdi (s) is from Ahlulbayt (s) and your Ahadith and ours proves so here are some my dear friend:

              

The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Even if the entire duration of the world's existence has already been exhausted and only one day is left before Doomsday (Day of judgment), Allah will expand that day to such a length of time, as to accommodate the kingdom of a person out of my Ahlul-Bayt who will be called by my name. He will then fill out the earth with peace and justice as it will have been full of injustice and tyranny before then."

 

References from Ahlul-Sunnah:

 

1. Sahih Tirmidhi, V2, P86, V9, PP 74-75
2. Sanan Abi Dawud, V2, P7
3. Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, V1, P376 & V3, P63
4. Mustadrak al-Sahihain, by al-Hakim, V4, P557
5. Al-Majma', by Tabarani, P217
6. Tahdhib al-Thabit, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, V9, P144
7. Sawaiq al-Muhraqa, Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, P167
8. Fathul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, V7, P305
9. al-Tathkirah, by al-Qurtubi, P617
10. al-Hawi, by al-Suyuti, V2, pp165-166
11. Sharh al-Mawahib al-Ladunniyyah, by al-Zurqani, V5, P348
12. Fathul Mughith, by al-Sakhawi, V3, P41
13. al-Hafidh Abul-Hasan Muhammad Ibn al-Husayn al-Sijistani al-Aburi
14. al-Shafi'i (d. 363/974). (who said the above hadith is related by
numerous authorities and were spread far and wide by many narrators).

and also in the works of Ibn Habban, Abu Nua'ym, Ibn Asakir, etc.   

Brother look how clear it is, "From My Ahlulbayt." this shows truth as you can see it. That the Imam Mahdi (A.F) is from Ahlubayt and he surely like I stated before from Ahlulbayt (s). Now his I will introduce to you the Biography of Imam Mahdi (A.F), His first heavenly Concealment was on 8th of Rabi-ul-Awwal, 260 A.H This is one he had 4 messengers where people keep in contact through them and send him Questions and Letters to the Imam (A.F) after 3 of his messengers passed away he told his last messenger to tell the people the final Heavenly Concealment will begin right after his last messengers death which was on 10th of Shawaal, 328 A.H. now I don't want to go deep on this issue but if you ask for proofs (scanned) for this issue I will be glad to give you. So my dear friend his Father is Imam Hassan Al Askari (s), who is the 11th Imam.          

 

There existed a good deal of harmony and uniformity between the aspects pertaining to the births of Prophet Muhammad, the last Apostle of Allah and Imam Mehdi, the last Apostolical Imam. Just as the coming of the Holy Prophet was prophesised well in advance by the preceeding Prophets similarly the impending news of the gracious birth of Imam al-Mehdi was foretold by the Holy Prophet.

Innumerable traditions in this context, quoted right from The Holy Prophet from the glowing contents of many books of Masanid, Sehan, and Akhbar and of Shia Scholars existed. Many Sunni scholars have accumulated these traditions in complete volumes also.

 

He was born on the 15th Shaban 255 A.H. in the city of Samarra. The momenton us and singluar aspects of his birth greatly resembled those under which the Prophet Musa was born. The birth of Hazart Musa had signalled the downfall and extinction of the empire of Pharoah, who had ordered the slaying of all the newly born children of Bani-Israel. The Abbaside kings were similarly apprehnesive of the continuous traditions of the Holy Prophet about the birth of Imam Mehdi, who was to bring about a curse to their (Abbaside) very empire. They were, therfore, laying in ambush to discover the birth of the Imam and to put an end to his life. But the event of the Imam's birth was enveloped and shielded by the same Divine protection and miraculous phenomena which had makred the historical birth of Prophet Musa. His birth remained strictly confidential and his nursery shrouded in secrecy except to a few devotees.

 

The Imam's birth had coincided with the reign of al-Mutamad, the well-known Abbaside king. He, being aware of the prophecy of the twelfth Imam's birth occuring in his reign, was extremely worried and anxious to trace him out.

 

But on the death of Imam Hasan Askari, when he was informed about the Imam's funeral prayer having been conducted by his four year old son, his perplexity knew no bounds.

 

It struck his mind that this very boy must be the Imam, but he managed to hide his inner concern at the news of the existence of the young Imam. In order to get confirmation that the young Imam did in fact exist, he ordered the arrest of the Imam's mother, Janab-e-Nargis Khatoon.

 

(On this issue I can also give you proof, please just ask)

 

Now I have given only one Authentic Haidth that he is from Ahlulbayt (s) so here are more and if you are not satisfied I will provide you with the copied (Scanned) from the same books:

 

 

The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Al-Mahdi is one of us, the members of the household (Ahlul-Bayt)."

 

Sunni reference: Sunan Ibn Majah, V2, Tradition #4085

 

As we see my dear brother Imam Mahdi is from the Ahlul Bayt of Prophet Muhammad, so he can not be Jesus (the Messiah; al-Maseeh). Mahdi and Messiah are two different personalities but they come at the same time, Mahdi as Imam and Jesus as his follower. The following tradition clearly mentions that Imam Mahdi is one of the children of the daughter of Prophet Muhammad (s):

 

The Messenger of Allah said: "Al-Mahdi is one of the children of
Fatimah
(the Prophet's daughter)."

 

Sunni reference: Sunan Ibn Majah, V2, Tradition #4086

 

In addtition:

 

The Prophet (S) said: "We the children of Abd Al-Mutalib are the Masters of the inhabitants of Heaven: Myself, Hamza (ra), Ali (S), Jafar ®, Hasan (S), Hussain (S), and Al-Mahdi (S)."

 

Sunni reference: Sunan Ibn Majah, V2, Tradition #4087

 

The Prophet (S) said: "The Mahdi will appear in my Ummah. He will appear for a minimum of 7 or a maximum of 9 years; in that time, my Ummah will experience a bountiful favor like never before. It shall have a great abundance of food, of which it need not save anything, and the wealth at that time is in great quantities, such that if a man asks the Mahdi to give him some, and the Mahdi (S) will say:

Here! Take!"

 

Sunni reference: Sunan Ibn Majah, V2, Tradition #5083

 

Remark: Now my brother according sources, the Government of Peace and equality that Imam Mahdi will establish will last hundreds of years with no rival, and then the day of Judgment will be set. What is mentioned in the above tradition as 7 or 9 years is related to the length of time that Imam Mahdi will fight to conquer the world when he starts his mission.

 

The Prophet (S) said: "We (I and my family) are members of a household that Allah has chosen for them the life of the
Hereafter over the life of this world; and the members of my household (Ahlul-Bayt) shall suffer a great affliction and they shall be forcefully expelled from their homes after my death; then there will come people from the East carrying black flags, and they will ask for some good to be given to them, but they shall be refused service; as such, they will wage war and emerge victorious, and will be offered that which they desired in the first place, but they will refuse to accept it, until a man from my family (Ahlul-Bayt) appears to fill the Earth with justice as it has been filled with corruption. So whoever reachs that (time) aught to come to them even if crowling on the ice/snow."

 

Sunni ref: Sunan Ibn Majah, V2, Tradition #4082, also in the History Tabari \

(If you request proof in Paper Scanned tell me)

 

The Messenger of Allah said: "The world will not perish until a man among the Arabs appears whose name matches my name."

 

Sunni reference: Sahih Tirmidhi, V9, P74

 

Also:

 

The Messenger of Allah said: "Mahdi from my family will bring about a revolution and will fill the world with justice and equity before which it was filled up with injustuce and inequity."

 

references From Ahlulsunnah:

1. Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, V1, P84
2. Jami'us Sagheer, by al-Suyuti, PP 2,160
3. al-Urful Vardi, by al-Suyuti, P2
4. Kanzul Ummal, V7 P186
5. Aqd al-Durar Fi Akhbaar al-Mahdi al-Muntazir, V12, Chapter 1,
6. al-Bayan fi Akhbar Sahib al-Zaman, By Ganji Shafi'i, Chapter 12
7. al-Fusool al-Muhimmah, by Ibn Sabbagh Maliki, Chapter 12
8. Arjahul Matalib, by Ubaidallah Hindi hanafi, P380
9. Muqaddimah, by Ibn Khaldoon, P266

 

Also Ahmad Ibn Hanbal narrated that:

 

The Prophet (S) said: "Allah will bring out from concealment Mahdi from my Family and Progeny before the Day of Judgement, even if only one day were to remain in the life of the world, and he will spread on this earth justice, and equity and eradicate tyranny and opression."

 

reference: Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p99

 

Ibn Majah in his Sunan quotes Mohammad Ibn Hanafiyyah and Imam Ali saying that the Holy Prophet (S) said:

 

"Mahdi is from our Ahlul-Bayt, no doubt Allah will enforce his Amr (appearance) within a night (i.e., his coming is very unpredicted)."

 

Sunni reference: Sunan Ibn Majah, V2, P269

 

 

_____________________


My Dear Brother Imamah As been mentioned for All nations, including the poof I provided you with, You Must understand that the the Quran is a Revelation of Allah and not the sayings of the prophet (s), so No need to say "Show Me a verse where the prophet says he Appointed An Imam for the Ummah", the Words of the Quran are Allah's words, and Allah clearly mentions Imamah from Chapter to Chapter.

_____________________

 

Now considering that you might Question me that every body is mortal. So how can he live so long?

 

 

Yes My dear brother, in fact Imam Mahdi will die too. But the difference is the length of life in this world. In fact Quran and the prophetic traditions tell us that some people have had/are having long life in this world. So it is possible to see this phenomena again. Are you aware that according to the Quran (see 29:14), Prophet Noah has just been prophet for 950 years? In fact, he was alive even more than that because we should add his age before prophethood to the above number. Who knows how much it was. Do you agree that Prophet Jesus (S) is still alive? He is in fact 1,994 years old now. Of course, he is not living on Earth right now; he is living in the Heavens. But according to Muslim's belief, he will come back to Earth, and will pray behind Imam al-Mahdi (S). Do you agree that al-Khidr (S) is still alive? Quran mentions his story with Moses (S). He existed before the birth of the Prophet Moses (S), so al-Khidr (S) is now more than 3000 years old. He lives right here on this Earth, but we can not recognize him (fairly similar to the case of Imam Mahdi). He serves Allah as one of His agents.

 

No doubt Allah has the ability to give a very long life, but He also has assigned a death time for every body (including the above mentioned individuals) which can be so soon or so late.

 

Moreover, scientifically speaking, there are NO objections whatsoever to the extended life span assertion. A group of scientists conducted a series of experiments at the Rockefeller Institute in New York in 1912 on certain "parts" of plants, animals, and humans. These scientists included Dr. Alex Carl, Dr. Jack Lope, and Dr. Warren Lewis and his wife, among others ( just as A few example). Among the experiments conducted was one that directly treated the nerves, muscles, hearts, skin, and kidneys of human beings. These organs were not in a human body, they were independent organs that were perhaps donated for the experiment. It was concluded by the scientists that these "parts or organs" CAN continue to live almost indefinitely as long as they are nourished properly, and as long as they are shielded from external negative interactions like microbes and other obstacles that might inhibit the growth of these organs; furthermore, the assertion was made that the cells would continue to grow normally under the above conditions, and that the growth is directly related to the nourishment provided. Again, aging had no effect on these organs, and they grew every year without any signs of deterioration or aging. The scientists concluded that these organs will continue to grow as long as the patience of the scientists themselves is not exhausted, causing them to abandon the nourishment process. 

 

Who is his father?
 

Shia's along with some Sunni scholars believe that his father was Imam Hasan al-Askari (d. 260/874). Below I have included the name of 31 Sunni scholars who confirm this fact. The overwhelming majority of prophetic traditions about Imam Mahdi (some of which I mentioned in the previous part) state that the name of Imam Mahdi is the same as the name of Prophet (i.e., Muhammad). However there exists a single Sunni report that has an additional phrase concerning that his father's name is also similar to that of Prophet's father (i.e., Abdullah). This extra phrase does NOT exist in all other reports by Shia and Sunni who narrated the Hadith. Moreover, the extra phrase in some Shi'i traditions is in the form of (that his nickname is the same as Prophets nickname, i.e., Abul Qasim) which is correct.

 

The single report which has the additional phrase (that his father's name is the same as that of Prophet's father) has been probably fabricated by Abdullah Ibn al-Hasan (Muthanna; the second) Ibn (Imam) al-Hasan (AS). Abdullah (d. 145/762) had a son named Muhammad who called him "Nafs al-Zakiyyah" and the al-Mahdi. (See Ibn Taqtuqa, al-Fikr fil-adab al- Sultaniyyah, PP 165-166). Abdullah used all his power and wealth to support the revolt of his son. Abdullah concealed his son several times in Umayad period when there was still no danger for him. When he was asked why he did this, he said: "What an idea, their time has not come yet." (Muruj al- Dhahab, by al-Masudi, V6, PP 107-108). The first time Muhammad wrote a letter the Abbasid Caliph, al-Mansur, he wrote: "From Muhammad Ibn Abdillah, the Mahdi, ..." (Tabari, V3, P29, Ibn Kathir V10, P85, Ibn Khaldun, V4, P4).

 

Muhammad Ibn Abdillah started his claims at the end of the rule of Umayad caliphs. Muhammad became powerful and tried to gain the support of the last Umayad Caliph who was Marwan Ibn Muhammad (132/750), but the Caliph did not pay attention to him. Abul Abbas al-Falasti said to Marwan: "Muhammad Ibn Abdillah is striving to gain the power for he is claiming to be al-Mahdi". Marwan replied: "What does he have to do with me? (the Mahdi) is not him, nor any of his father's descendants. He will be the son of a slave woman."

 

When Marwan said that Mahdi (AS) is not one of his father's descendants, he meant the descendants of Imam Hasan (AS), for Mahdi (AS) is the descendant of Imam Husain (AS) and is son of a slave woman (umm walad). Even Marwan was aware of these traditions because of which he did not pay attention to Muhammad Ibn Abdillah. This shows that the true versions of traditions from Prophet were wide-spread.

There is also a very small possibility that the fabrication of that extra phrase was done the Abbasid Caliph, Abdullah al-Mansur, who called his son the Mahdi. Muslim Ibn Qutaybah said: "Mansur called me and said: Muhammad Ibn Abdillah rebelled and he called himself the Mahdi. By Allah he is not. I will tell you something else which I have told no one before, and will tell no one after you. By Allah my son is not the Mahdi either,... but I did so to make a good future for him."

 

From all above it can be seen that the fabrication of the single report which includes that extra phrase, could be reconciled on Muhammad Ibn Abdillah and/or the Abbasid Caliph, al-Mahdi. This is not the place to examine the Hadith critically, but merely to point out the historical background of it.

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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 Also to support my stance on the Hadith that I pointed out from Mustadrak al Hakim, volume 3, page 128,

 

“Whoever obeys ‘Ali, obeys me, whoever obeys me, obeys Allah, whoever disobeys ‘Ali disobeys me, whoever disobeys me, disobeys Allah”

 

 

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your Also Doubted whether Ali (as) Had the Knowledge of the Quran, Now I have provided proof but here is the Scanned Proof for our viewers. May You All benefit from this Inshalla.Know my dear friend that he infact has the knowledge of all the past books and including the Quran. We read in Yanabi mawwadahp page 83: 

"“Sharh al Kibriyat al Ahmar records that Ali narrated: ‘If a cloth is placed on the ground, I will judge the people of the Torah according to the Torah, people of the Injeel according to the Injeel and people of Furqan (Qur’an) according to the Quran’”. 

 

 

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As you can see the position of Imam Ali (as) and his Knowledge, surely he has the knowledge of the Quran.

As we continue reading to page 86:

Sharh Ta’aruf records – ‘There is a consensus that ‘Ali is the Chief of the Arif’s (people of recognition) and he made a claim that non before or after him have made, namely on one occasion he declared on the pulpit ‘Ask me anything, an ocean of knowledge is flowing in my chest, Rasulullah (s) filled my chest in the same manner that a bird feeds its offspring. I swear by He ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì who controls my life if permitted to do so, I will judge the people of the Torah according to the Torah, the people of the Injeel according to the Injeel, if I am allowed to tell people about Ahkam I will tell the people of those things that are in them, and these books shall corroborate my position”.
  

Scanned Proof:

 

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Edited by TheIslamHistory

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Your telling my did not the prophets wives posses knowledge of the book including the Sahabah. My dear friend, if such people possessed knowledge of the book, would they fight Imam Ali (as)? Who the prophet (s) says "I am at the state of war with those are at War with you (Ahlulbayt)"? does it look like when Aishya fought Imam Ali (as) in the War of Jamal Does it show that she possessed knowledge of the book?, Allah has sent warning to Aysha and Hasfa her Disloyalty to the prophet (s) and Imam Ali (s), I will even prove to you from your Sunni Tafsir Al Qurtubi:

We read in Tafsir Al Qurtubi volume 21, page 104:

At the end of the verse no.10 of Sura Tahrim :

"Allah Sets Forth an Example to those who disbelieve (Kaffaro), the wife of Nuh and The wife of Lut: they were both under two of our righteous servants, But they acted treacherously towards them so they availed them naught against Allah, and it was said: Enter both the fire with those who enter."  

 

Now Let us ask the Imam Al Qurtubi, For whom was this verse revealed? 

 

Allah says: "Allah sets forth an example to those who Disbelieve.."

 

Allah(S.W.T) is setting this example for those who disbelieve to who? Who?

 

come to page 104:
 

he said (Imam Qurtubi): "(Allah sets forth an example for those who disbelieve) this example of disobedience was

given to A'isha and Hafsa for their transgression..."

My dear brother and the viewers of this post & forum, this book is not a Shia Book, nor is it a Bihar or Usool Al kafi etc, and no and no and no It isn't from any of the books of the shia...Instead it is a book of Tafseer of one of the great Imams of Ahlul-Sunna. Pay attention He says Allah has set forth this example to who?

here is the hard proof right in front of you: "The example of the disobedience was given to A'isha and Hasfa when they transgressed against the messenger  of Allah (s)..then Allah gave them another example of the Pharaoh's wife and Mariam 

the daughter of Imran to urge them in obedience and Adherence to the religion."

 

 

Scanned proof:



 

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Edited by TheIslamHistory

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Now I believe you are trying to justify option 1, and say that consensus (agreement) is the best way to go. (although I have proved this to be wrong from the Authentic Ahadith in your books as you can see clearly and the verse which I have stated. If The Ummah Chose option one, than Why did the prophet Appoint Imam Ali (as) as successor? ( I have proved this as you can see above ), Did the Quran say that the Islamic Ummah should chose their own Khalifa? or did Allah appoint a guide for every nation (people)? my dear Brother, Your not replying Directly at the my response, in this case lets see what Happen in Saqifa,There is no doubt that prior to his departing from the earth the prophet (s) as any responsible leader would do appointed a successor, one that would inherit his mantle of leadership, and thereafter continue to propagate the true teachings of Islam after him. He took the opportunity to make this declaration following the completion of the final Hajj wherein believers from all over the Arab peninsula had gathered.  It was here, at the a place called Ghadir Khumm that the Prophet (s) made his intention clear to all.

 

 Despite this key event, when we look in to history we see a completely different individual, Abu Bakr occupying the reins of power and declaring himself to be the Khailfa of the prophet (s). The question is how and why did this happen?  What key incidents took place between the coronation of Ali (as) and Abu Bakr coming to power, that changed the entire destiny of the Islamic Ummah?  The key incidents are two:

 

The first is the calamity of Thursday wherein certain individuals that successfully impeded the ability of Rasulullah (s) from dictating his will on his deathbed, so that no written record of his choice of successor would exist.

 

The second incident involved the same individuals engineering a means to counter the appointment of Ali (as) by imposing on the Ummah their own choice.

This second incident was enabled via a gathering at a place called Saqifa Bani Sa’adah. When we had originally penned an article on this topic we sought to  analytically go through the events that followed the death of Rasulullah (s) setting out how a chain events unfolded that led to Abu Bakr becoming the head of state, following heated discussions at Saqifa.  We focussed on Sunni narratives to piece to gather the events and to show our dear readers that the appointment of Abu Bakr was a full fledged conspiracy wherein all manner of trickery and dishonesty was adopted to ensure that Abu Bakr won the day by any means necessary.

 

The curious reaction of Umar to the death of the Prophet (s) Is really Amazing....Abu Bakr was not in Madinah but was at a town called Sunh, upon hearing news of the Prophet (saws)’s demise he returned to Madinah by horse. Meanwhile Umar was seeking to deny this information and was in fact threatening to kill people who said that the Prophet (saaws) was dead.

 

We read in History of Al-Tabari (Sunnah Book)

 

“Some of the hypocrites allege that the Messenger of God is dead. By God, he is not dead but has gone to his Lord as Moses b. Imran went and remained hidden from his people for forty days. Moses returned after it was said that he had died. By God, the Messenger of God will [also] return and will cut off the hands and feet of those who allege that he is dead”.

The history of al-Tabari, Volume 9 p 184 (In english, But if you desire the Arabic version with Proof that its Sahih, please tell me)

Scanned proof:


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Note my dear brother, how Umar ascribes to the prophet (s) returning having met his Lord, so that is Raj’ah will Nawasibi issue an appropriate edicts against him? Now, I would like to know:

 

 

(1)Why would Rasulullah (s) punish the people in such a cruel manner?  They were after all merely cascading news that the Prophet (s) had died, that was not an unsubstantiated rumor, the wives of the Prophet (s) were mourning inside their homes.

 

(2)Didn’t Umar believe that the prophet (s) was a Mercy for Mankind?

(3) If he did, is the maiming of individuals in line with the title of the Mercy for Mankind?

(4) Such curious claims about the return of the prophet(s), what did he not believe that prophet (s) could die?

(5) If not, why not?

 

 

Umar was still threatening the inhabitants of Madinah by the time Abu Bakr arrived there. Abu Bakr went in to the house of Ummul Momineen Ayesha, kissed the Prophet (saaws)’s forehead, and thereafter interrupted Umar stating:

 

“If anyone amongst you used to worship Muhummud (saws) then Muhummud is dead but (if any one of) you used to worship Allah then Allah is alive and shall never die. Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì said: -

 

‘Muhummud is no more than an Apostle, and indeed (many) apostles have passed away before him…(till the end of the verse)…Allah will reward to those who are thankful’. (3:144)”.

    

 

Also in Sahih Bukhari Volume 5 Hadith 733 with Scanned proof:

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This immense love did not evidence itself when the Prophet (s) asked for writing materials so as to commit to pen his eternal will, here Umar questioned the sanity of Rasulullah (s) a fact attested by Ibn al Hashimi’s own beloved Imam Ibn Tamiyah who said in Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 6 page 202:

 

 

فلما كان يوم الخميس هم أن يكتب كتابا فقال عمر ماله أهجر فشك عمر هل هذا القول من هجر الحمي أو هو مما يقول على عادته فخاف عمر أن يكون من هجر الحمى

 

 

“On Thursday he (the Holy Prophet) determined to write a will. But, Umar said: ‘What is wrong with him, is he delirious?’ Umar had doubts if that statement (of the Holy Prophet) was a rave due to illness, or was a regular statement. Thus Umar feared that the Holy Prophet might have been raving due to fever”.

 

 

Is this your Khalifa? Who doesn't even let the prophet (s) writehis own will? Who is he to know the prophet (s) and cease him to write his will? Grief doesn’t just evaporate in seconds, it stays with a sufferer for a considerable period of time. In the case of Umar this ‘grief’ evaporated as soon as Abu Bakr returned from Sukh. This in itself proves that he was making it all up.  This fact has been vouched for by Allamah Shibli Numani who says he did so to curtail the machinations of the hypocrites.

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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