Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
peace seeker

Did The Prophet (S) Appoint A Successor?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

???YOU READ. Your answer makes zero sense?? You contradicted yourself AGAIN as usual.

Assalamu alaykum

 

 

(1) yes I read brother, So please with brief well comprehended explanation explain how am I contradicting me self? please quote Thank you.

(2) At the moment your are denying.

  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is false and you have taken My stance out of context, I said it was due to the situation of Dawud (a.s) at that very moment and not in "Every case" as you claim it to be and accuse me of it.

MY ANSWER

So what you're saying is dawud a.s knew he a.s had to listen to both sides.

The prophet Dawud (a.s) knew how to judge people, he knew the right way, but at the Test he realized it to be more mandatory and that is the Hujja on Bani Israel at the time, that Allah TAUGHT HIM the this concept of judgement.

MY ANSWER

... And here you contradict yourself and make no sense.

Tell me when did Allah ( swt ) "teach him". Before this event took place or after this event.

Your answers make no sense as usual

This answer is where you contradict yourself. Please read.

(1) yes I read brother, So please with brief well comprehended explanation explain how am I contradicting me self? please quote Thank you.

(2) At the moment your are denying.

I am not denying YOU are deliberately stalling this topic hoping I will get fed up and disappear. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN FRIEND.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This answer is where you contradict yourself. Please read.

I am not denying YOU are deliberately stalling this topic hoping I will get fed up and disappear. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN FRIEND.

 

 

(1) in that same Post your Quoting, I asked "How am I contradicting my self?" as what you mentioned, there is no difference in my stance.

(2) How am I stalling the topic? 

(3) don't take things out of context. be logical with your self.

(wasalam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is false and you have taken My stance out of context, I said it was due to the situation of Dawud (a.s) at that very moment and not in "Every case" as you claim it to be and accuse me of it.

MY ANSWER

So what you're saying is dawud a.s knew he a.s had to listen to both sides.

The prophet Dawud (a.s) knew how to judge people, he knew the right way, but at the Test he realized it to be more mandatory and that is the Hujja on Bani Israel at the time, that Allah TAUGHT HIM the this concept of judgement.

MY ANSWER

... And here you contradict yourself and make no sense.

Tell me when did Allah ( swt ) "teach him". Before this event took place or after this event.

Your answers make no sense as usual

First you claim dawud a.s knew that he had to listen to both versions then you contradict yourself and say Allah (swt) taught him at that time of the test.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First you claim dawud a.s knew that he had to listen to both versions then you contradict yourself and say Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì taught him at that time of the test.

 

 

(1) Taught him that it was mandatory, No contradictions there:

 

"The prophet Dawud (a.s) knew how to judge people, he knew the right way, but at the Test he realized it to be more mandatory and that is the Hujja on Bani Israel at the time, that Allah taught him the this concept of judgement. Like how Allah Taught prophet Muhammad (a.s) all that which he knows, which he did not know Initially and then later teaching the nations. All prophets at the time of their test, they where tested with difficultly, And Allah makes such a test unknown to them to teach them. Otherwise for example you cannot have a teacher that does not know the concepts and yet goes off teaching students. In This you can never have any test After the start of prophethood Adam (a.s), that 'Will' Make a prophet Sin. This is completely Impossible, because of such a prophet sinned, then people would have doubt it in his message and prophethood which Allah has given him, and Allah Can never put a prophet (Remember I am saying From the start of prophethood (When Adam came to Earth 'As' A prophet)) in that state where he tested and he sins, if so one fails, then how ells would you become a prophet? you Infact would not be able to if you failed. All prophets know The Unseen and between whats wrong and whats right even at the Situation ob being tested. Here Dawud (a.s) After his Realization he Knew he should have made a Justice in that time, and so he asks Allah for forgiveness for his action, but not that it was false, but due to his late realization of what was the 'Better' option. This is the lesson, Allah Teaches Dawud (a.s) and this is How Allah Taught all of his Prophets (peace be upon them All) by test and Revelation of the truth, but keep in mind its impossible Allah would make them sin during that test, because how would such a man become a prophet and a guide for the people? would I follow a person we has the Ability just as I to commit sin? this is Invalid my dear friend. So Repentance does mean it 'Only' Comes after Sin, it can also come from Regret, Realization, Defeat, not knowing, doing something unwillingly, Forced, Anger, Intention and so on. Therefore Initially no Mistake in the means of a Sin, has being committed. And Sin is when is something against the commandments of Allah, which no prophet would do."

 

 

___________

 

 

Keep in mind Making Judgement in different situations requires a different approach. There it now becomes Mandatory and a concept for in these types of cases and for all situations. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(1) Taught him that it was mandatory, No contradictions there:

"The prophet Dawud (a.s) knew how to judge people, he knew the right way, but at the Test he realized it to be more mandatory and that is the Hujja on Bani Israel at the time, that Allah taught him the this concept of judgement. Like how Allah Taught prophet Muhammad (a.s) all that which he knows, which he did not know Initially and then later teaching the nations. All prophets at the time of their test, they where tested with difficultly, And Allah makes such a test unknown to them to teach them. Otherwise for example you cannot have a teacher that does not know the concepts and yet goes off teaching students. In This you can never have any test After the start of prophethood Adam (a.s), that 'Will' Make a prophet Sin. This is completely Impossible, because of such a prophet sinned, then people would have doubt it in his message and prophethood which Allah has given him, and Allah Can never put a prophet (Remember I am saying From the start of prophethood (When Adam came to Earth 'As' A prophet)) in that state where he tested and he sins, if so one fails, then how ells would you become a prophet? you Infact would not be able to if you failed. All prophets know The Unseen and between whats wrong and whats right even at the Situation ob being tested. Here Dawud (a.s) After his Realization he Knew he should have made a Justice in that time, and so he asks Allah for forgiveness for his action, but not that it was false, but due to his late realization of what was the 'Better' option. This is the lesson, Allah Teaches Dawud (a.s) and this is How Allah Taught all of his Prophets (peace be upon them All) by test and Revelation of the truth, but keep in mind its impossible Allah would make them sin during that test, because how would such a man become a prophet and a guide for the people? would I follow a person we has the Ability just as I to commit sin? this is Invalid my dear friend. So Repentance does mean it 'Only' Comes after Sin, it can also come from Regret, Realization, Defeat, not knowing, doing something unwillingly, Forced, Anger, Intention and so on. Therefore Initially no Mistake in the means of a Sin, has being committed. And Sin is when is something against the commandments of Allah, which no prophet would do."

___________

Keep in mind Making Judgement in different situations requires a different approach. There it now becomes Mandatory and a concept for in these types of cases and for all situations.

You've mind boggled me. Well done.

So in the most simplest terms what you are saying is that dawud a.s knew that listening to both sides of the story was a must but at that time he made a mistake of not listening to both sides and that is why he repented and was forgiven.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You've mind boggled me. Well done.

So in the most simplest terms what you are saying is that dawud a.s knew that listening to both sides of the story was a must but at that time he made a mistake of not listening to both sides and that is why he repented and was forgiven.

(1) in Judgement of course Situations differ to know what is when such is mandatory or not, at that time he did know of such, since his nation perhaps yet did not acknowledge him fully. Keep in mind when Allah teaches Someone Something, there is not such thing as a "Sin" taking action during the procedure. Since it would be illogical for a Prophet Who is appointed by Allah to go against what Allah is and wants to teach him.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(1) in Judgement of course Situations differ to know what is when such is mandatory or not, at that time he did know of such, since his nation perhaps yet did not acknowledge him fully. Keep in mind when Allah teaches Someone Something, there is not such thing as a "Sin" taking action during the procedure. Since it would be illogical for a Prophet Who is appointed by Allah to go against what Allah is and wants to teach him.

Wow... Subhanallah. Even a normal human being knows that listening to both sides of a story is a must yet you claim a prophet did not know this but needed to be taught this. Subhanallah. Your logic is just beautiful.

Also if dawud a.s never knew that it was a must to listen to both sides of the story then how did he magically realise as soon as the angels disappeared that he made a mistake. I mean like if you don't know that you've done something wrong then how can you realise it straight away that you have been tried.

“… And David perceived that We had tried him, so he

sought forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down bowing,

and he repented.”

In the second verse the Qur’ān implies that Allah favoured His mercy over him and forgave his lapse in this leaving the better, as the Qur’ān in this verse says:

“So We forgave him that (lapse), and verily for him, with

Us is a nearness and an excellent resort.”

http://maaref-foundation.com/english/library/quran/light/light_15/38/24_25.htm

Mashallah to your logic.

Edited by Just the truth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But here David began thinking, and though he knew he had made a just judgment, and his silence was the best evidence that the problem was the same that the complainant had mentioned, yet the manners of the meeting of judgment required that David would not hasten in his speech, and first he should personally ask the opposite party and then arbitrated. Therefore, because of this action of his, he became regretful very much and, as the verse says

http://maaref-foundation.com/english/library/quran/light/light_15/38/24_25.htm

As you can see dawud a.s knew he should have listened to both sides so when you say Allah (swt) was "teaching him" that is wrong.

Edited by Just the truth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But here David began thinking, and though he knew he had made a just judgment, and his silence was the best evidence that the problem was the same that the complainant had mentioned, yet the manners of the meeting of judgment required that David would not hasten in his speech, and first he should personally ask the opposite party and then arbitrated. Therefore, because of this action of his, he became regretful very much and, as the verse says

http://maaref-foundation.com/english/library/quran/light/light_15/38/24_25.htm

As you can see dawud a.s knew he should have listened to both sides so when you say Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì was "teaching him" that is wrong.

 

 

And How am I Disagreeing with this? My statement was very clear, in the means of Judging between people, there are many scenarios, which occur, and only then When Allah has Taught our deer prophet Dawud (a.s) that in all cases it is Mandatory, Allah has taught him a lesson, which later become a Hujja on the nation of Israel.

 

 

 

 

Wow... Subhanallah. Even a normal human being knows that listening to both sides of a story is a must yet you claim a prophet did not know this but needed to be taught this. Subhanallah. Your logic is just beautiful. Also if dawud a.s never knew that it was a must to listen to both sides of the story then how did he magically realise as soon as the angels disappeared that he made a mistake. I mean like if you don't know that you've done something wrong then how can you realise it straight away that you have been tried.

 

The prophet knew dear brother, but in the light of this situation it became clear to him that such is mandatory, even if the Nation of Israel acknowledged him as a prophet, he must make a judgement and take into account on both sides, even if he knows the unseen and knows the hearts of all people. There is no Sin taking place in the Procedure of Allah teaching his prophets Lessons. Can you please Tell me how he Disobeyed Allah? Since that is What Sin means.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And How am I Disagreeing with this? My statement was very clear, in the means of Judging between people, there are many scenarios, which occur, and only then When Allah has Taught our deer prophet Dawud (a.s) that in all cases it is Mandatory, Allah has taught him a lesson, which later become a Hujja on the nation of Israel.

The prophet knew dear brother, but in the light of this situation it became clear to him that such is mandatory, even if the Nation of Israel acknowledged him as a prophet, he must make a judgement and take into account on both sides, even if he knows the unseen and knows the hearts of all people. There is no Sin taking place in the Procedure of Allah teaching his prophets Lessons. Can you please Tell me how he Disobeyed Allah? Since that is What Sin means.

Who's talking about sin?? When did I say this was a sin. We're talking about a mistake which according to you and your aqidah it is impossible for a prophet (a.s) to make a mistake.

You've totally missed the point or you just never read the reply properly. Dawud a.s KNEW he had to listen to both sides and that is why after thinking about it he regretted his action of not listening to both sides before passing judgement.

But here DAVID BEGAN THINKING, and though he knew he had made a just judgment, and his silence was the best evidence that the problem was the same that the complainant had mentioned, YET THE MANNERS OF THE MEETING of judgment REQUIRED that DAVID WOULD NOT HASTEN IN HIS SPEECH, AND FIRST HE SHOULD PERSONALLT ASK THE OPPOSITE PARTY and then arbitrated. Therefore, because of this action of his, he became regretful very much and, as the verse says

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Statement:

Who's talking about sin?? When did I say this was a sin. We're talking about a mistake which according to you and your aqidah it is impossible for a prophet (a.s) to make a mistake. 

 

A mistake in the test of Allah is no problem, but in the terms of among the nation, that is impossible. Thus when we say Free of Sin, we mean Infallibility. And even the Mistake it self is done Unintentionally, it was not of his own Free will that he knew it 'was' a Mistake. very clear.

 

 

Statement:

You've totally missed the point or you just never read the reply properly. Dawud a.s KNEW he had to listen to both sides and that is why after thinking about it he regretted his action of not listening to both sides before passing judgement.

 

He knew, but not in the means where it becomes Mandatory even if knew who is Guilty and who is not,  and that is where he is taught By Allah.
 

 

 

Infallibility is free of Sin. Thus we have proven it.

 

 

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Statement:

Who's talking about sin?? When did I say this was a sin. We're talking about a mistake which according to you and your aqidah it is impossible for a prophet (a.s) to make a mistake.

A mistake in the test of Allah is no problem, but in the terms of among the nation, that is impossible. Thus when we say Free of Sin, we mean Infallibility. And even the Mistake it self is done Unintentionally, it was not of his own Free will that he knew it 'was' a Mistake. very clear.

Statement:

You've totally missed the point or you just never read the reply properly. Dawud a.s KNEW he had to listen to both sides and that is why after thinking about it he regretted his action of not listening to both sides before passing judgement.

He knew, but not in the means where it becomes Mandatory even if knew who is Guilty and who is not, and that is where he is taught By Allah.

Infallibility is free of Sin. Thus we have proven it.

Err.... Excuse me. It shia believe a prophet is free from mistakes not just sin.

Hold your horses. Firstly before dawud a.s passed the judgement he had no idea he was being tested and secondly he had no idea that the two men were angels, so he could have easily made the same mistake among his nation.

You're as usual missing the point at the fact that dawud a.s KNEW it was mandatory to listen to both sides of the story that is why as soon as the angels disappeared he began thinking. Now if as you say dawud a.s never knew it was mandatory at all times then how could he when he starting thinking realize that he had made a mistake if he never knew that it was mandatory at all times to listen to both sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Statement:

Err.... Excuse me. It shia believe a prophet is free from mistakes not just sin. Hold your horses. Firstly before dawud a.s passed the judgement he had no idea he was being tested and secondly he had no idea that the two men were angels, so he could have easily made the same mistake among his nation.

 

He Had no perception  that the test would come at that Particular Moment, but as a prophet (a.s) who sees the Unseen and the inside out of peoples hearts, he knew who right and who is wrong. He would never and it is impossible for him to 'Commit' a mere mistake or Sin among his nation, otherwise how would he be a representative (Hujja) of Allah on earth? People would doubt in his message and the Greatness of the creator.

 

Statement:
You're as usual missing the point at the fact that dawud a.s KNEW it was mandatory to listen to both sides of the story that is why as soon as the angels disappeared he began thinking. Now if as you say dawud a.s never knew it was mandatory at all times then how could he when he starting thinking realize that he had made a mistake if he never knew that it was mandatory at all times to listen to both sides. 

 

The fact that his Nation even when they have accepted him as a prophet (a.s) and they Acknowledge him with all trust, even with him knowing the unseen of all on earth, he surely must make a reasonable judgment, to us it such an act would be neither be a mistake nor a sin, and what is their in telling the truth? but to 'Him" as a prophet it was an act which 'He' Considered to be a fault, you are not reading the verse brother: 

 

 

“And remember Our servant Dawud, the possessor of power; surely he was frequent in returning (to Allah). Surely We made the mountains to sing the glory (of Allah) in unison with him at the evening and the sunrise, And the birds gathered together; all joined in singing with him. And We strengthened his kingdom and We gave him wisdom and a clear judgment. And has there come to you the story of the litigants, when they made an entry into the private chamber by ascending over the walls? When they entered in upon Dawud and he was frightened at them, they said, Fear not; two litigants, of whom one has acted wrongfully towards the other, therefore decide between us with justice, and do not act unjustly, and guide us to the right way. Surely this is my brother; he has ninety-nine ewes and I have a single ewe; but he said, make it over to me, and he has prevailed against me in discourse. He said, Surely he has been unjust to you in demanding your ewe (to add) to his own ewes; and most surely most of the partners act wrongfully towards one another, save those who believe and do good, and very few are they; and Dawud was sure that We had tried him, so he sought the protection of his Lord and he fell down bowing and turned time after time (to Him)”. (38:22-24)

 

 

 

 

If you look at the the verse in Arabic:

 

 

قَالَ لَقَدْ ظَلَمَكَ بِسُؤَالِ نَعْجَتِكَ إِلَىٰ نِعَاجِهِ ۖ وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنَ الْخُلَطَاءِ لَيَبْغِي بَعْضُهُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَقَلِيلٌ مَّا هُمْ ۗ وَظَنَّ دَاوُودُ أَنَّمَا فَتَنَّاهُ فَاسْتَغْفَرَ رَبَّهُ وَخَرَّ رَاكِعًا وَأَنَابَ 

 

 

 

   

 

The Word: "Dhan" means 'He thought', and is not 'he was Certain or sure in, nor is it in Arabic.

We read the Sunni Translations on this:

 

 

 

Muhsin Khan
 

[Dawud (David)] said (immediately without listening to the opponent): "He has wronged you in demanding your ewe in addition to his ewes. And, verily, many partners oppress one another, except those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and they are few." And Dawud (David) guessed that We have tried him and he sought Forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down prostrate and turned (to Allah) in repentance. 

 

 

Yusuf Ali

 

(David) said: "He has undoubtedly wronged thee in demanding thy (single) ewe to be added to his (flock of) ewes: truly many are the partners (in business) who wrong each other: Not so do those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and how few are they?"...and David gathered that We had tried him: he asked forgiveness of his Lord, fell down, bowing (in prostration), and turned (to Allah in repentance).
 

 

 

Pickthall
 

(David) said: He hath wronged thee in demanding thine ewe in addition to his ewes, and lo! many partners oppress one another, save such as believe and do good works, and they are few. And David guessed that We had tried him, and he sought forgiveness of his Lord, and he bowed himself and fell down prostrate and repented.

 

 

Dr. Ghali

 

He (Dawud) said, "Indeed he has already done an injustice to you in asking for your ewe (in addition) to his ewes; and surely many intermixes are indeed inequitable one against the other, (Literally: some of them are unfair to some "others") except the ones who have believed and done deeds of righteousness, and how few they are!" And Dawud surmised that We had only tempted (Or: tried) him; so he asked forgiveness of his Lord, and he collapsed bowing down and turned penitent. A prostration is to be performed here.

 

 

And With Shakir, he said: "he was sure", but to the above it cannot be correct, as the Word "Dhan" means he Guessed, thought, Summarized and etc....


So he thought in a manner that he did commit a mistake, but in reality the issue is that there was the better option, which would help in all situation if such was encountered.


(wasalam)   

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Statement:

Err.... Excuse me. It shia believe a prophet is free from mistakes not just sin. Hold your horses. Firstly before dawud a.s passed the judgement he had no idea he was being tested and secondly he had no idea that the two men were angels, so he could have easily made the same mistake among his nation.

He Had no perception that the test would come at that Particular Moment, but as a prophet (a.s) who sees the Unseen and the inside out of peoples hearts, he knew who right and who is wrong. He would never and it is impossible for him to 'Commit' a mere mistake or Sin among his nation, otherwise how would he be a representative (Hujja) of Allah on earth? People would doubt in his message and the Greatness of the creator.

Statement:

You're as usual missing the point at the fact that dawud a.s KNEW it was mandatory to listen to both sides of the story that is why as soon as the angels disappeared he began thinking. Now if as you say dawud a.s never knew it was mandatory at all times then how could he when he starting thinking realize that he had made a mistake if he never knew that it was mandatory at all times to listen to both sides.

The fact that his Nation even when they have accepted him as a prophet (a.s) and they Acknowledge him with all trust, even with him knowing the unseen of all on earth, he surely must make a reasonable judgment, to us it such an act would be neither be a mistake nor a sin, and what is their in telling the truth? but to 'Him" as a prophet it was an act which 'He' Considered to be a fault, you are not reading the verse brother:

“And remember Our servant Dawud, the possessor of power; surely he was frequent in returning (to Allah). Surely We made the mountains to sing the glory (of Allah) in unison with him at the evening and the sunrise, And the birds gathered together; all joined in singing with him. And We strengthened his kingdom and We gave him wisdom and a clear judgment. And has there come to you the story of the litigants, when they made an entry into the private chamber by ascending over the walls? When they entered in upon Dawud and he was frightened at them, they said, Fear not; two litigants, of whom one has acted wrongfully towards the other, therefore decide between us with justice, and do not act unjustly, and guide us to the right way. Surely this is my brother; he has ninety-nine ewes and I have a single ewe; but he said, make it over to me, and he has prevailed against me in discourse. He said, Surely he has been unjust to you in demanding your ewe (to add) to his own ewes; and most surely most of the partners act wrongfully towards one another, save those who believe and do good, and very few are they; and Dawud was sure that We had tried him, so he sought the protection of his Lord and he fell down bowing and turned time after time (to Him)”. (38:22-24)

If you look at the the verse in Arabic:

قَالَ لَقَدْ ظَلَمَكَ بِسُؤَالِ نَعْجَتِكَ إِلَىٰ نِعَاجِهِ ۖ وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنَ الْخُلَطَاءِ لَيَبْغِي بَعْضُهُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَقَلِيلٌ مَّا هُمْ ۗ وَظَنَّ دَاوُودُ أَنَّمَا فَتَنَّاهُ فَاسْتَغْفَرَ رَبَّهُ وَخَرَّ رَاكِعًا وَأَنَابَ

The Word: "Dhan" means 'He thought', and is not 'he was Certain or sure in, nor is it in Arabic.

We read the Sunni Translations on this:

Muhsin Khan

[Dawud (David)] said (immediately without listening to the opponent): "He has wronged you in demanding your ewe in addition to his ewes. And, verily, many partners oppress one another, except those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and they are few." And Dawud (David) guessed that We have tried him and he sought Forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down prostrate and turned (to Allah) in repentance.

Yusuf Ali

(David) said: "He has undoubtedly wronged thee in demanding thy (single) ewe to be added to his (flock of) ewes: truly many are the partners (in business) who wrong each other: Not so do those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and how few are they?"...and David gathered that We had tried him: he asked forgiveness of his Lord, fell down, bowing (in prostration), and turned (to Allah in repentance).

Pickthall

(David) said: He hath wronged thee in demanding thine ewe in addition to his ewes, and lo! many partners oppress one another, save such as believe and do good works, and they are few. And David guessed that We had tried him, and he sought forgiveness of his Lord, and he bowed himself and fell down prostrate and repented.

Dr. Ghali

He (Dawud) said, "Indeed he has already done an injustice to you in asking for your ewe (in addition) to his ewes; and surely many intermixes are indeed inequitable one against the other, (Literally: some of them are unfair to some "others") except the ones who have believed and done deeds of righteousness, and how few they are!" And Dawud surmised that We had only tempted (Or: tried) him; so he asked forgiveness of his Lord, and he collapsed bowing down and turned penitent. A prostration is to be performed here.

And With Shakir, he said: "he was sure", but to the above it cannot be correct, as the Word "Dhan" means he Guessed, thought, Summarized and etc....

So he thought in a manner that he did commit a mistake, but in reality the issue is that there was the better option, which would help in all situation if such was encountered.

(wasalam)

Err... Excuse but when "he thought" we had tried him actually testifies against you. Dawud a.s realised he made a mistake and "thought" he had been tested. Dawud a.s did not know it was a test so according to dawud a.s they were two men from among his nation and not two angels, that's why Allah ( swt) sent angels in the form if man and not angels in the form if angels. Allah ( swt) wanted to see how dawud a.s would react to two men from his nation so that's the reason them two angels went as men.

Just because they were angels and not human it does not change the fact that everybody knows that dawud a.s made a mistake with two angels whom he thought were men so according to normal people dawud a.s treated them as humans and not angels, so he could have easily made the same mistake even if them two angels were actual men because dawud a.s never knew they were angels but he a.s treated them as men from his nation and not angels.

Edited by Just the truth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Err... Excuse but when "he thought" we had tried him actually testifies against you. Dawud a.s realised he made a mistake and "thought" he had been tested. Dawud a.s did not know it was a test so according to dawud a.s they were two men from among his nation and not two angels, that's why Allah ( swt) sent angels in the form if man and not angels in the form if angels. Allah ( swt) wanted to see how dawud a.s would react to two men from his nation so that's the reason them two angels went as men.

Just because they were angels and not human it does not change the fact that everybody knows that dawud a.s made a mistake with two angels whom he thought were men so according to normal people dawud a.s treated them as humans and not angels, so he could have easily made the same mistake even if them two angels were actual men because dawud a.s never knew they were angels but he a.s treated them as men from his nation and not angels.

 

 

(1) in the verse he thought/guessed that he made such a fault, and no where does it say in any of the verses above that "realized" he made a mistake or "he knew he made a mistake", If such you claim can you please site us from the noble Quran?

(2) initially to us this is not a mistake, if I go and Judge between people and I knew who is wrong and who is right, I can easily point out the culprit and claim justice through my proof and evidence, The prophet Dawud (a.s) can do the same, but due to his nation and to bring in the concept of hearing both, even though 'He' is a prophet (a.s) he must act in that manner, because it would show more justice in him, and such situation at times it would be mandatory so the crowd understands that is and what is not at truth.

(wasalam)

 

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(1) in the verse he thought/guessed that he made such a fault, and no where does it say in any of the verses above that "realized" he made a mistake or "he knew he made a mistake", If such you claim can you please site us from the noble Quran?

(2) initially to us this is not a mistake, if I go and Judge between people and I knew who is wrong and who is right, I can easily point out the culprit and claim justice through my proof and evidence, The prophet Dawud (a.s) can do the same, but due to his nation and to bring in the concept of hearing both, even though 'He' is a prophet (a.s) he must act in that manner, because it would show more justice in him, and such situation at times it would be mandatory so the crowd understand that is and what is not at truth.

(wasalam)

1. Read the verse properly friend it says "he thought we had tried him" and not as you say "he thought he had made a mistake".

He "thought" that he was tested was insure about that and not unsure about the fact that he had made a mistake in his judgement.

2. Dawud a.s knew he had to judge between people by listening to both sides but he made a mistake by not listening to both sides. The whole moral of the test is that Allah (swt) sent angels in the form on men for a reason which is that he wanted dawud a.s to think that them angels were men and not angels and Allah (swt) wanted to see how he would react.

Edited by Just the truth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Read the verse properly friend it says "he thought we had tried him" and not as you say "he thought he had made a mistake".

He "thought" that he was tested was insure about that and not unsure about the fact that he had made a mistake in his judgement.

2. Dawud a.s knew he had to judge between people by listening to both sides but he made a mistake by not listening to both sides. The whole moral of the test is that Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì sent angels in the form on men for a reason which is that he wanted dawud a.s to think that them angels were men and not angels and Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì wanted to see how he would react.

 

 

(1) Its There at the end (conclusion) Of all that is Happened (Context in the verse).

(2) A mistake In Judgement only is, when such is a false, but as a prophet he knew between them, simple put Allah taught him the better Option and more righteous in conduct for him Prophet Dawud (a.s) as a prophet.

 

(3) Allah did not want to see how we wanted to react, Why would he? Allah already knows, But he wanted to teach him that virtue so he can carry it on, and what is taught by Allah, has a true purpose in guidance for humanity.

 

 

(wasalam)

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(1) Its There at the end (conclusion) Of all that is Happened (Context in the verse).

(2) A mistake In Judgement only is, when such is a false, but as a prophet he knew between them, simple put Allah taught him the better Option and more righteous in conduct for him Prophet Dawud (a.s) as a prophet.

(3) Allah did not want to see how we wanted to react, Why would he? Allah already knows, But he wanted to teach him that virtue so he can carry it on, and what is taught by Allah, has a true purpose in guidance for humanity.

(wasalam)

1. Yea, at the end if the verse dawud a.s repented and Allah ( swt) forgave him. Quite simple really.

2. When did I say the decision made by dawud a.s was wrong. Answer me this, of dawud a.s never knew it was mandatory to listen to both sides of a story at all times then how did he realise as soon as the angels disappeared that he had made a mistake if according to his a.s knowledge according to you this was not a mistake. I mean like seriously if he a.s never knew that it was mandatory at all times to listen to both sides then how did he realise he his mistake as soon as the angels disappeared.

3. This is yet the most absurd thing you have yet said, "Allah did not want to see how we wanted to react, Why would he? Allah already know".

This is like saying why is Allah (swt) testing us when he already knows in his infinite knowledge whether we are going to heavan or hell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Statement:.

Yea, at the end if the verse dawud a.s repented and Allah ( swt) forgave him. Quite simple really.

 

​As Proven Earlier, No sin is done during, even as mistake as you claim its made, it would not mean sin, and the mistake according to the Law by which we live today, as such would not be a mistake, Keep in mind "he thought", so its natural for someone to ask forgiveness for what is not sure of, also Allah forgives, Sins, Mistake, unintentional doing, Taqya when forced, Leaving the Obligatory for a a more important issue at hand (between life & death).

 

 

Statement:
Answer me this, of dawud a.s never knew it was mandatory to listen to both sides of a story at all times then how did he realise as soon as the angels disappeared that he had made a mistake if according to his a.s knowledge according to you this was not a mistake. I mean like seriously if he a.s never knew that it was mandatory at all times to listen to both sides then how did he realise he his mistake as soon as the angels disappeared.

 

 

 

(1) first of all he did not 'realize',he 'thought', and if he did realize and claimed he sinned, can you please state such where in the Nobel Quran? if you may.

 

(2) As a prophet (a.s), People who follow must already accept his judgement without a question, since he is appointed by Allah and is his representative on earth, but due to the situation at his time, it would be 'the' better option, as it would more of righteous in the presents of others (e.g Crowed).

 

(3) We have already proven Infallibility, but your emphasis on the 'Mistake' is in reality to us no mistake at all, but he 'though' as such, and knew the better action. 
 

 

 

Statement:
3. This is yet the most absurd thing you have yet said, "Allah did not want to see how we wanted to react, Why would he? Allah already know".  This is like saying why is Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì testing us when he already knows in his infinite knowledge whether we are going to heavan or hell. 

 

Absurd? brother you Said on the basis of the issue, he wanted to see how he reacts I meant it on that aspect, please stop taking my words out of context. Second of all if your saying the soul purpose of this test is for Allah to see how the prophet Would react is invalid. When Allah Teachs something to a prophet it is taught and carried on, it is concept to be taken from what the prophet (a.s) learned, To claim it as a Hujja on Bani Israel, if your saying the only purpose of this whole issue is for Allah to see how the prophet would react is saying that Allah only created us to see how we wold react. This is false brother, we created for a purpose and a Destination to head too. Allah Teaches humanity here to guide them, Allah already knows past, Present and future, he is not testing Dawud (a.s) just to see how he reacts, but to guide humanity and his servants among them. You sound narrow on this part, please use your logical Reasoning.

(wasalam) 

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Statement:.

Yea, at the end if the verse dawud a.s repented and Allah ( swt) forgave him. Quite simple really.

​As Proven Earlier, No sin is done during, even as mistake as you claim its made, it would not mean sin, and the mistake according to the Law by which we live today, as such would not be a mistake, Keep in mind "he thought", so its natural for someone to ask forgiveness for what is not sure of, also Allah forgives, Sins, Mistake, unintentional doing, Taqya when forced, Leaving the Obligatory for a a more important issue at hand (between life & death).

Statement:

Answer me this, of dawud a.s never knew it was mandatory to listen to both sides of a story at all times then how did he realise as soon as the angels disappeared that he had made a mistake if according to his a.s knowledge according to you this was not a mistake. I mean like seriously if he a.s never knew that it was mandatory at all times to listen to both sides then how did he realise he his mistake as soon as the angels disappeared.

(1) first of all he did not 'realize',he 'thought', and if he did realize and claimed he sinned, can you please state such where in the Nobel Quran? if you may.

(2) As a prophet (a.s), People who follow must already accept his judgement without a question, since he is appointed by Allah and is his representative on earth, but due to the situation at his time, it would be 'the' better option, as it would more of righteous in the presents of others (e.g Crowed).

(3) We have already proven Infallibility, but your emphasis on the 'Mistake' is in reality to us no mistake at all, but he 'though' as such, and knew the better action.

Statement:

3. This is yet the most absurd thing you have yet said, "Allah did not want to see how we wanted to react, Why would he? Allah already know". This is like saying why is Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì testing us when he already knows in his infinite knowledge whether we are going to heavan or hell.

Absurd? brother you Said on the basis of the issue, he wanted to see how he reacts I meant it on that aspect, please stop taking my words out of context. Second of all if your saying the soul purpose of this test is for Allah to see how the prophet Would react is invalid. When Allah Teachs something to a prophet it is taught and carried on, it is concept to be taken from what the prophet (a.s) learned, To claim it as a Hujja on Bani Israel, if your saying the only purpose of this whole issue is for Allah to see how the prophet would react is saying that Allah only created us to see how we wold react. This is false brother, we created for a purpose and a Destination to head too. Allah Teaches humanity here to guide them, Allah already knows past, Present and future, he is not testing Dawud (a.s) just to see how he reacts, but to guide humanity and his servants among them. You sound narrow on this part, please use your logical Reasoning.

(wasalam)

1. "As proven earlier" you're having a laugh right. You obviously neither read my reply or the quranic verse. Why am I not surprised!!

24.“(David) said: ‘Indeed he has been unjust to you in demanding your ewe to add her to his own ewes; and verily many of the associates are wrongfully unto one another, save those who believe and do good deeds, and few are they!’ And DAVID PERCEIVED THAT WE HAD TRIED HIM, so he sought forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down bowing, and he repented.”

25. “So We forgave him that (lapse), and verily for him, with Us is a nearness and an excellent resort.”

Dawud a.s thought/perceived he had been tried and not thought/perceived that he had made a mistake. He perceived he was tried, because he a.s knew listening to both sides was mandatory.

2. He "thought" he was tried and not that he made a mistake please read the verse.

3.

But here DAVID BEGAN THINKING, and though he knew he had made a just judgment, and his silence was the best evidence that the problem was the same that the complainant had mentioned, YET THE MANNERS OF THE MEETING of judgment REQUIRED that DAVID WOULD NOT HASTEN IN HIS SPEECH, AND FIRST HE SHOULD PERSONALLT ASK THE OPPOSITE PARTY and then arbitrated. Therefore, because of this action of his, he became regretful very much and, as the verse says

So here dawud a.s knew he had to listen to both sides and realised his mistake.

Verse 25.

25. “So We forgave him that (lapse), and verily for him, with Us is a nearness and an excellent resort.”

Dawud a.s realised his mistake repented and was forgiven quite simple really when you read with an open mind

Edited by Just the truth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Statement:

Dawud a.s thought/perceived he had been tried and not thought/perceived that he had made a mistake. He perceived he was tried, because he a.s knew listening to both sides was mandatory.

 

According to the Translation above as I stated, its "thought" and not "he was Certain", brother where does it says he Realized it was Entirely wrong what he did? (which was not.) and there is a Difference between perceived and thought. 
 

 

Statement:

But here DAVID BEGAN THINKING, and though he knew he had made a just judgment, and his silence was the best evidence that the problem was the same that the complainant had mentioned, YET THE MANNERS OF THE MEETING of judgment REQUIRED that DAVID WOULD NOT HASTEN IN HIS SPEECH, AND FIRST HE SHOULD PERSONALLT ASK THE OPPOSITE PARTY and then arbitrated. Therefore, because of this action of his, he became regretful very much and, as the verse says

 

 

(1) No where do I see a Sin or a Mistake in action, by knowing who is right and who is wrong, in the sense of Law.
(2) he was regretful, as he thought there must be a better way he could have approached the situation.

 

 

Infallibility means free of sin, and yet there is such act being committed in the Procedure of his lesson, for he is the prophet and Allah is the teacher.

 
   

Statement:
As proven earlier" you're having a laugh right. You obviously neither read my reply or the quranic verse. Why am I not surprised!!

 

(1) I have read everything your wrote.
(2) No I am not laughing at the moment.
​(3) Your surprised because there so far no logic in what you hold on.

(wasalam) 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Statement:

Dawud a.s thought/perceived he had been tried and not thought/perceived that he had made a mistake. He perceived he was tried, because he a.s knew listening to both sides was mandatory.

According to the Translation above as I stated, its "thought" and not "he was Certain", brother where does it says he Realized it was Entirely wrong what he did? (which was not.) and there is a Difference between perceived and thought.

Statement:

But here DAVID BEGAN THINKING, and though he knew he had made a just judgment, and his silence was the best evidence that the problem was the same that the complainant had mentioned, YET THE MANNERS OF THE MEETING of judgment REQUIRED that DAVID WOULD NOT HASTEN IN HIS SPEECH, AND FIRST HE SHOULD PERSONALLT ASK THE OPPOSITE PARTY and then arbitrated. Therefore, because of this action of his, he became regretful very much and, as the verse says

(1) No where do I see a Sin or a Mistake in action, by knowing who is right and who is wrong, in the sense of Law.

(2) he was regretful, as he thought there must be a better way he could have approached the situation.

Infallibility means free of sin, and yet there is such act being committed in the Procedure of his lesson, for he is the prophet and Allah is the teacher.

Statement:

As proven earlier" you're having a laugh right. You obviously neither read my reply or the quranic verse. Why am I not surprised!!

(1) I have read everything your wrote.

(2) No I am not laughing at the moment.

​(3) Your surprised because there so far no logic in what you hold on.

(wasalam)

Ok brother I see I have to go through this step by step with you. No problem.

Could you tell me when it is says dawud a.s "thought" in that verse. What did dawud a.s thought.

Answer this simple and straight forward then we will move to next step

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your Repeating your self and yet not Factual Proof given from you.
 

 

f you look at the the verse in Arabic:

 

 

قَالَ لَقَدْ ظَلَمَكَ بِسُؤَالِ نَعْجَتِكَ إِلَىٰ نِعَاجِهِ ۖ وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنَ الْخُلَطَاءِ لَيَبْغِي بَعْضُهُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَقَلِيلٌ مَّا هُمْ ۗ وَظَنَّ دَاوُودُ أَنَّمَا فَتَنَّاهُ فَاسْتَغْفَرَ رَبَّهُ وَخَرَّ رَاكِعًا وَأَنَابَ 

 

 

 

   

 

The Word: "Dhan" means 'He thought', and is not 'he was Certain or sure in, nor is it in Arabic.

We read the Sunni Translations on this:

 

 

 

Muhsin Khan
 

[Dawud (David)] said (immediately without listening to the opponent): "He has wronged you in demanding your ewe in addition to his ewes. And, verily, many partners oppress one another, except those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and they are few." And Dawud (David) guessed that We have tried him and he sought Forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down prostrate and turned (to Allah) in repentance. 

 

 

Yusuf Ali

 

(David) said: "He has undoubtedly wronged thee in demanding thy (single) ewe to be added to his (flock of) ewes: truly many are the partners (in business) who wrong each other: Not so do those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and how few are they?"...and David gathered that We had tried him: he asked forgiveness of his Lord, fell down, bowing (in prostration), and turned (to Allah in repentance).
 

 

 

Pickthall
 

(David) said: He hath wronged thee in demanding thine ewe in addition to his ewes, and lo! many partners oppress one another, save such as believe and do good works, and they are few. And David guessed that We had tried him, and he sought forgiveness of his Lord, and he bowed himself and fell down prostrate and repented.

 

 

Dr. Ghali

 

He (Dawud) said, "Indeed he has already done an injustice to you in asking for your ewe (in addition) to his ewes; and surely many intermixes are indeed inequitable one against the other, (Literally: some of them are unfair to some "others") except the ones who have believed and done deeds of righteousness, and how few they are!" And Dawud surmised that We had only tempted (Or: tried) him; so he asked forgiveness of his Lord, and he collapsed bowing down and turned penitent. A prostration is to be performed here.

 

 

And With Shakir, he said: "he was sure", but to the above it cannot be correct, as the Word "Dhan" means he Guessed, thought, Summarized and etc....


So he thought in a manner that he did commit a mistake, but in reality the issue is that there was the better option, which would help in all situation if such was encountered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Il ask you again. When in the verse it says "thought" what does it say that dawud a.s "thought". Mistake or that he had been tried

 

Right above you. No need for Ignorance.

 

"Dhan" = ظَّنَ = thought, guessed.

 

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Il ask you again. When it says dawud a.s thought" in that verse WHAT did he a.s "thought" mistake or that he had been tried

 

Learn Arabic brother, "Dhan" in Arabic means thought. If you reject so, you Reject Arabic Literature, And if we said it means Guessed, it would still mean the same thing. Let me ask you, are you sure your making sense? I mean do you make sense?

 

even In google Translate:

http://translate.google.com/#ar/en/%D8%B8%D9%86

And in the Arabic Dictionary:

 

http://www.almaany.com/home.php?language=arabic&word=%D8%B8%D9%86&lang_name=English&type_word=2&dspl=0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Learn Arabic brother, "Dhan" in Arabic means thought. If you reject so, you Reject Arabic Literature, And if we said it means Guessed, it would still mean the same thing. Let me ask you, are you sure your making sense? I mean do you make sense?

even In google Translate:

http://translate.google.com/#ar/en/%D8%B8%D9%86

And in the Arabic Dictionary:

http://www.almaany.com/home.php?language=arabic&word=%D8%B8%D9%86&lang_name=English&type_word=2&dspl=0

Il ask you again. When it says dawud a.s "thought" in that verse what did he "thought".

I'm not refuting that it says "thought" I know that's what it means. Thank you very much. Now I answer the above question. Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Il ask you again. When it says dawud a.s "thought" in that verse what did he "thought".

I'm not refuting that it says "thought" I know that's what it means. Thank you very much. Now I answer the above question. Thank you

 

Your not moving anywhere Brother, He thought (Allah says), Remember Allah is Saying he 'Dawud' (a.s) thought that Allah Tested Him. 

(wasalam)

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm moving in the right direction brother don't worry. Now tell me why he thought Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì tested him

 

Knowing They 'Angels' Disappeared, after he made an Unjust Judgement in that situation present in. Allah taught him a lesson, and he Prophet (a.s) took that virtue.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But how did he realise that he had made an unjust judgement

 

 

He Did Not Realize to Certainty that me made unjust, he thought as In Guessed, There is a Difference. He 'thought' After seeing that they have disappeared.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...