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peace seeker

Did The Prophet (S) Appoint A Successor?

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The sin for which Prophet Musa (a.s.) asked for forgiveness is not the sin of murder. Murder is not a trivial sin; it is a Gunaah-e-Kabeerah. It is nonsensical to think that after a prophet commits a Greater Sin and asks for forgiveness, Allah immediately forgives him ("Do you then forgive me!" So (Allah) forgave him [28:16]), without Prophet Musa (a.s.) having to pay any blood money, or ask forgiveness from the family of the murdered person, or any other act to recompense for the sin of murder.

The sin that Prophet Musa (a.s.) asked forgiveness for was revealing himself to be the promised Messiah to the people of Egypt by answering the call for assistance of his shi'ah before he had been given permission by Allah to reveal his true identity (till then he had been living with the Pharaoh as an ordinary man). Hence he asked forgiveness for his hasty action, and Allah forgave him immediately. The sin of murder is a sin against humanity, and cannot be forgiven in this manner. Allah is not partial towards his prophets (naudzobillah).

(This explanation was provided in an Urdu majlis a couple of years ago. It is no longer available online, but if someone wants the original video file, then they can contact me and I'll try to make it available for downloading.)

As for the other verse where Prophet Musa (a.s.) is confronting Pharaoh, I had asked this question at the "Contact Us" section on the almizan.org website, and this is the response I received:

Question:

> Subject: Prophet Musa in surah 26

> Comments: salamun alaykum,

>

> In verse 20 of surah ash-shu'raa' Prophet Musa is reported to have

> said that he was of "those who were astray". How does one interpret this

> verse in light of the infallibility of the prophets?

According to the principle of the Qur'an and the decisive verses, Prophets

of Allah are protected by Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì from making mistakes, commiting sins -

going astray. Examples of such verses are plenty and we quote a few:

"These are they whom Allah has guided; therefore, follow their guidance".

(6:90)

Comment: This verse proves that all the prophets were decidedly guided by

Allah and other verses (like 18:12) prove that whom Allah guides, is a

rightly guided one meaning, there is none that can lead him astray. Allah

counts every straying as a sin and every sin as a misguidance, according to

verses 36:60-62. Looking at all these verses we find that Allah guided all

the prophets by His guidance. Anyone guided by Allah's guidance can never be

misled, and can never go astray.

"These are they on whom Allah bestowed favors, of the prophets of the

posterity of Adam, and of those whom We carried with Nuh, and of the

posterity of Ibrahim and Israel, and of those whom We guided and chose."

(19:58)

Comment: These verses show that Allah has bestowed His favors upon the

Prophets and the favors are bestowed upon neither those who have been

inflicted with Allah’s wrath nor those who have gone astray. If the Prophets

had committed a sin, they would have gone astray and Allah would not bestow

His favors upon them.

Therefore, the verse you have quoted in surah 26 should be explained in

keeping with the above principle that Prophets of Allah are given divine

protection.

Now let us look at the verse you quoted:

"(Musa) said: "I did it then, when I was of those who are tied up with

error" (26:20)

The root of the word "dzalla" has the following meanings:

1) Lose one's way

2) Go astray

3) Fail

4) Disappear

5) Err

6) Forget

7) Deviate, etc

Notice, we have translated the Arabic word "dzalla" in verse 26:20 as

"error" because it is appropriate according to the context of the verse and

according to the verses preceding it. In verse 26:14, Musa (a.s.) says:

"And they have a charge of crime against me; so I fear that they may kill

me"

The above is one of the reasons Musa (a.s.) gives for fearing that Firawn

will belie him. Now if Musa (a.s.) was guilty of the crime, he probably

would have said: "I have a crime; so I fear that they will kill me". Instead

he says: "they have a charge of crime against me". A charge of crime against

someone does not imply that the person is automatically guilty.

Having understood the context of verse 26:14, what Musa (a.s.) therefore

replied to Firawn is as follows: "I did a deed (killing the aggressor) when

I was of those who was caught up or tied up with the (particular) situation

which was an error on the part of the aggressor". (And Allah knows best!)

Prophet Dawood (as) commited the sin of passing judgement before hearing the case of the second disputant. In Verse 38:23-24 of the Quran, Allah Almighty says: "...and he [Dawood] sought forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down prostrate and turned (to Allah) in repentance. So We forgave him that, and verily, for him is a near access to Us, and a good place of (final) return (Paradise)" (38:23-24)"

Now my brother let's look at this verse. The story behind it is that two men came to the Prophet (as) and one said that he want's the other brother's sheep for his own self. Nabi Dawud said you're being unjust, and sinning by taking the sheep of your brother. Then the men disappeared. Nabi Dawud realized this was two angels who came before him, not two brothers, and they came to test his judge making abilities. They wanted to teach him a lesson on that he needs to here two sides before making a decission. Otherwise he could have actually sinned with two real people. He nevers sinned, when it says he went to sajda, and prayed for Allah's forgivness, he wants such a mistake not to ever happen, and that he be saved from such mistakes.

YOU SAID

Therefore, the verse you have quoted in surah 26 should be explained in

keeping with the above principle that Prophets of Allah are given divine

MY ANSWER

Firstly when on earth did I say the above??

YOU SAID

The sin that Prophet Musa (a.s.) asked forgiveness for was revealing himself to be the promised Messiah to the people of Egypt by

MY ANSWER

Hold up!!! "Forgiveness"??? I thought it meant "protection"??

Changing our stance are we??

Also your reply regarding dawud a.s makes no sense!! Because:

YOU SAID

and prayed for Allah's forgivness, he wants such a mistake not to ever happen, and that he be saved from such mistakes.

MY ANSWER

What are you talking about?? He a.s had ALREADY made the mistake and that's why he asked for forgiveness.

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YOU SAID

Therefore, the verse you have quoted in surah 26 should be explained in

keeping with the above principle that Prophets of Allah are given divine

MY ANSWER

Firstly when on earth did I say the above??

YOU SAID

The sin that Prophet Musa (a.s.) asked forgiveness for was revealing himself to be the promised Messiah to the people of Egypt by

MY ANSWER

Hold up!!! "Forgiveness"??? I thought it meant "protection"??

Changing our stance are we??

Also your reply regarding dawud a.s makes no sense!! Because:

YOU SAID

and prayed for Allah's forgivness, he wants such a mistake not to ever happen, and that he be saved from such mistakes.

MY ANSWER

What are you talking about?? He a.s had ALREADY made the mistake and that's why he asked for forgiveness.

 

 

(1) I did not change my stance at prophet Musa (as).

(2) Prophet Dawud (as) The two who had come to Dawud were not angels but were thieves and they had gone to harm him. But since they could not gain what they wanted they made up this story to hide their misdeed and Dawud realized that they were (really) thieves and he thought of punishing them and it was his imagination (no certainty) which amounted to giving up or leaving the desirable. So he repented did not do anything to the two. Fifth: Allah became angry because when the plaintiff made his statement, Dawud, before ascertaining from the defendant, declared that ‘he has done injustice to you.’ His intention was that ‘If you are telling the truth then he has oppressed you’. The better course was that he should not have uttered these words before taking the statement of the defendant. Therefore, he sought forgiveness for leaving this preferable (desired) course of action.

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(1) I did not change my stance at prophet Musa (as).

(2) Prophet Dawud (as) The two who had come to Dawud were not angels but were thieves and they had gone to harm him. But since they could not gain what they wanted they made up this story to hide their misdeed and Dawud realized that they were (really) thieves and he thought of punishing them and it was his imagination (no certainty) which amounted to giving up or leaving the desirable. So he repented did not do anything to the two. Fifth: Allah became angry because when the plaintiff made his statement, Dawud, before ascertaining from the defendant, declared that ‘he has done injustice to you.’ His intention was that ‘If you are telling the truth then he has oppressed you’. The better course was that he should not have uttered these words before taking the statement of the defendant. Therefore, he sought forgiveness for leaving this preferable (desired) course of action.

1. Yea you are. First you said it means "protection" and then you switched to saying it meant "forgiveness"

2. Contradicting yourself AGAIN.

In your previous reply you said the two who came were angels and now in this reply you're saying they're "thieves". So who or what were they.

YOU SAID

Therefore, he sought forgiveness for leaving this preferable (desired) course of action.

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1. Yea you are. First you said it means "protection" and then you switched to saying it meant "forgiveness"

2. Contradicting yourself AGAIN.

In your previous reply you said the two who came were angels and now in this reply you're saying they're "thieves". So who or what were they.

YOU SAID

Therefore, he sought forgiveness for leaving this preferable (desired) course of action.

MY ANSWER

So in simple English dawud a.s made the mistake of:

Therefore, he sought forgiveness for leaving this preferable (desired) course of action.

Well I'm sorry ISLAMIC history but have I been talking Russian for the past couple of days!!

What I've been saying is he made a mistake and asked for forgiveness. Which you have stubbornly been denying

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(1) please Quote the Two Paragraphs Where I differ.

(2) how Am I contracting my self?

(3) its not a Sin. Please read above.

(4) You were talking English and not Russian.

(wasalam)

Stop lying dear friend. First you said musa a.s asked for "protection" then in your next reply you said he asked for "forgiveness".

Also regarding dawud a.s first you said they were "angels" then in your next reply said they were " thieves". Confused are we??

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Stop lying dear friend. First you said musa a.s asked for "protection" then in your next reply you said he asked for "forgiveness".

Also regarding dawud a.s first you said they were "angels" then in your next reply said they were " thieves". Confused are we??

 

 

Forgiveness "Ghafara" in the means of Protection. (I was showing you the Similarities & differences ) to justify my second Reply on Musa which I repeated in Uli al amr )

and for Dawod I was talking about how they are not Angels but Thieves.

 

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The whole Mawla means friend thing is just silly. Why would the prophet, stop a large group of people after days of walking in the hot sun, tired and exhausted, to tell them, guys this is my friend? It just doesn't make any sense and to be frank, it belittles the prophet. 

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Forgiveness "Ghafara" in the means of Protection. (I was showing you the Similarities & differences ) to justify my second Reply on Musa which I repeated in Uli al amr )

and for Dawod I was talking about how they are not Angels but Thieves.

So was musa a.s asking for protection or forgiveness?? Also tell me what musa a.s thought of the Israelite.

Regarding dawud a.s:

Hold up are you sure they were thieves and not angels??

Edited by Just the truth

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So was musa a.s asking for protection or forgiveness?? Also tell me what musa a.s thought of the Israelite.

Regarding dawud a.s:

Hold up are you sure they were thieves and not angels??

 

(1) In the means Of Protection.

(2) Thieves.

 

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(1) In the means Of Protection.

(2) Thieves.

1. Re read the story friend and see what is said

2. Allah sent two angels in human form to Dawud. They were not allowed to enter his private chamber where he used to retire for his devotional prayers. They climbed over a wall, entered his private chamber and said that they had come to seek redress at his hands.

One of them said: "This my brother has a flock of 99 sheep, and I had but one; yet he wants me to give up my one sheep to his keeping. He talks like one intending mischief." Without giving a chance to the other who also came to him as a contender Dawud decreed his demand unjust. The two angels disappeared as mysteriously as they had come. It was then realised by Dawud that it was a trial. In self-complacence he passed the judgement before listening to the defendant. As soon as it became evident to him, he turned to Allah in repentance.

http://quran.al-islam.org

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1. Re read the story friend and see what is said

2. Allah sent two angels in human form to Dawud. They were not allowed to enter his private chamber where he used to retire for his devotional prayers. They climbed over a wall, entered his private chamber and said that they had come to seek redress at his hands.

One of them said: "This my brother has a flock of 99 sheep, and I had but one; yet he wants me to give up my one sheep to his keeping. He talks like one intending mischief." Without giving a chance to the other who also came to him as a contender Dawud decreed his demand unjust. The two angels disappeared as mysteriously as they had come. It was then realised by Dawud that it was a trial. In self-complacence he passed the judgement before listening to the defendant. As soon as it became evident to him, he turned to Allah in repentance.

http://quran.al-islam.org

 

 

(1) If you read the previous page I did not say they are not Angles but sent in the form of thieves and the Paragraph you wrote or copied and pasted shows so. Please don't take my words out of context.

(2) and We see there has no sin being Committed what so ever.

As I said:

 

 

" Allah sent two angels for warning him. Fourth: The two who had come to Dawud were not angels but were thieves and they had gone to harm him. But since they could not gain what they wanted they made up this story to hide their misdeed and Dawud realized that they were (really) thieves and he thought of punishing them and it was his imagination (no certainty) which amounted to giving up or leaving the desirable. So he repented did not do anything to the two. Fifth: Allah became angry because when the plaintiff made his statement, Dawud, before ascertaining from the defendant, declared that ‘he has done injustice to you.’ His intention was that ‘If you are telling the truth then he has oppressed you’. The better course was that he should not have uttered these words before taking the statement of the defendant. Therefore, he sought forgiveness for leaving this preferable (desired) course of action. "

Please read the verse properly:

 

“And remember Our servant Dawud, the possessor of power; surely he was frequent in returning (to Allah). Surely We made the mountains to sing the glory (of Allah) in unison with him at the evening and the sunrise, And the birds gathered together; all joined in singing with him. And We strengthened his kingdom and We gave him wisdom and a clear judgment. And has there come to you the story of the litigants, when they made an entry into the private chamber by ascending over the walls? When they entered in upon Dawud and he was frightened at them, they said, Fear not; two litigants, of whom one has acted wrongfully towards the other, therefore decide between us with justice, and do not act unjustly, and guide us to the right way. Surely this is my brother; he has ninety-nine ewes and I have a single ewe; but he said, make it over to me, and he has prevailed against me in discourse. He said, Surely he has been unjust to you in demanding your ewe (to add) to his own ewes; and most surely most of the partners act wrongfully towards one another, save those who believe and do good, and very few are they; and Dawud was sure that We had tried him, so he sought the protection of his Lord and he fell down bowing and turned time after time (to Him)”. (38:22-24)

 

Imam Muhammad al-Baqir says that ‘Zann’ here means ‘Ilm’ (knowledge), that is, he felt sure that Allah took his test.

 

Therefore, We rectified for him this, and most surely, he had a nearness to Us and an excellent resort. O Dawud! surely We have made you a ruler in the land; so judge between men with justice and do not follow desire, lest it should lead you astray from the path of Allah; (as for) those who go astray from the path of Allah, they shall surely have a severe punishment because they forgot the day of reckoning. (38:25-6)

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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(1) If you read the previous page I did not say they are not Angles but sent in the form of thieves and the Paragraph you wrote or copied and pasted shows so. Please don't take my words out of context.

(2) and We see there has no sin being Committed what so ever.

As I said:

" Allah sent two angels for warning him. Fourth: The two who had come to Dawud were not angels but were thieves and they had gone to harm him. But since they could not gain what they wanted they made up this story to hide their misdeed and Dawud realized that they were (really) thieves and he thought of punishing them and it was his imagination (no certainty) which amounted to giving up or leaving the desirable. So he repented did not do anything to the two. Fifth: Allah became angry because when the plaintiff made his statement, Dawud, before ascertaining from the defendant, declared that ‘he has done injustice to you.’ His intention was that ‘If you are telling the truth then he has oppressed you’. The better course was that he should not have uttered these words before taking the statement of the defendant. Therefore, he sought forgiveness for leaving this preferable (desired) course of action. "

Please read the verse properly:

“And remember Our servant Dawud, the possessor of power; surely he was frequent in returning (to Allah). Surely We made the mountains to sing the glory (of Allah) in unison with him at the evening and the sunrise, And the birds gathered together; all joined in singing with him. And We strengthened his kingdom and We gave him wisdom and a clear judgment. And has there come to you the story of the litigants, when they made an entry into the private chamber by ascending over the walls? When they entered in upon Dawud and he was frightened at them, they said, Fear not; two litigants, of whom one has acted wrongfully towards the other, therefore decide between us with justice, and do not act unjustly, and guide us to the right way. Surely this is my brother; he has ninety-nine ewes and I have a single ewe; but he said, make it over to me, and he has prevailed against me in discourse. He said, Surely he has been unjust to you in demanding your ewe (to add) to his own ewes; and most surely most of the partners act wrongfully towards one another, save those who believe and do good, and very few are they; and Dawud was sure that We had tried him, so he sought the protection of his Lord and he fell down bowing and turned time after time (to Him)”. (38:22-24)

Imam Muhammad al-Baqir says that ‘Zann’ here means ‘Ilm’ (knowledge), that is, he felt sure that Allah took his test.

Therefore, We rectified for him this, and most surely, he had a nearness to Us and an excellent resort. O Dawud! surely We have made you a ruler in the land; so judge between men with justice and do not follow desire, lest it should lead you astray from the path of Allah; (as for) those who go astray from the path of Allah, they shall surely have a severe punishment because they forgot the day of reckoning. (38:25-6)

1. No you never stop lying. I asked you specifically angels or thieves and you said thieves and you never said thieves in the form of angels.

2. read the last part of the reply

"In self-complacence he passed the judgement before listening to the defendant. As soon as it became evident to him, he turned to Allah in repentance".

The mistake of dawud a.s was that he passed judgement before listening then he repented

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1. No you never stop lying. I asked you specifically angels or thieves and you said thieves and you never said thieves in the form of angels.

2. read the last part of the reply

"In self-complacence he passed the judgement before listening to the defendant. As soon as it became evident to him, he turned to Allah in repentance".

The mistake of dawud a.s was that he passed judgement before listening then he repented

 

 

(1) your saying he Turned to Repentance as you claimed ( please read it says he turned to him)  but not in the form as that he has committed sin but that of Humiliation.

(2) read the page before I made clear what My stand is and when you asked (Assuming the Situation was Present) I said thieves.

(3) Telling the truth cannot be a sin? is it a Sin? He as a prophet (as) Did What he that of what he knows since at his time he was the most knowledgeable. The manner of being Unjust Unknowingly cannot be said that it is or of is sin. is it to you? if so please explain? 

 

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(1) your saying he Turned to Repentance as you claimed ( please read it says he turned to him) but not in the form as that he has committed sin but that of Humiliation.

(2) read the page before I made clear what My stand is and when you asked (Assuming the Situation was Present) I said thieves.

(3) Telling the truth cannot be a sin? is it a Sin? He as a prophet (as) Did What he that of what he knows since at his time he was the most knowledgeable. The manner of being Unjust Unknowingly cannot be said that it is or of is sin. is it to you? if so please explain?

Did dawud a.s make a mistake by not listening to both sides of the story, yes or no

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Did dawud a.s make a mistake by not listening to both sides of the story, yes or no

 

 

 

(1) That does not make it a Sin. or any form of it. Is he to blame for knowing the Truth and the Unseen?

 

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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As I said earlier  The story behind it is that two men came to the Prophet (a.s) and one said that he want's the other brother's sheep for his own self. Nabi Dawud said you're being unjust, and sinning by taking the sheep of your brother. Then the men disappeared. Nabi Dawud realized this was two angels who came before him, not two brothers, and they came to test his judge making abilities. They wanted to teach him a lesson on that he needs to here two sides before making a decission. Otherwise he could have actually sinned with two real people. So if your talking about a Mistake in not knowing sure why not. But If your talking about a Mistake in Initial Action, I'm Afraid not. Your Wrong. And this would not be any form or Type of Sin.  

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So what you're saying is before this event took place dawud a.s did not know that you have to listen to both sides of a story

 

No that's not What I meant. In that Particular Scenario he was in at that very moment, he actually (reality) Knew Who was right and Who was wrong, but did not inform them of how he came to that Judgement, and this is the lesson Allah Wanted to teach prophet Dawood (a.s).

(wasalam) 

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No that's not What I meant. In that Particular Scenario he was in at that very moment, he actually (reality) Knew Who was right and Who was wrong, but did not inform them of how he came to that Judgement, and this is the lesson Allah Wanted to teach prophet Dawood (a.s).

(wasalam)

Who's talking about the decision made by dawud a.s between the two angels?? NO ONE.

What I'm saying is that at that time did dawud a.s make a mistake of not listening to both sides yes or no.

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Who's talking about the decision made by dawud a.s between the two angels?? NO ONE.

What I'm saying is that at that time did dawud a.s make a mistake of not listening to both sides yes or no.

 

 

It would be impossible for him to do so, (Since he Knows) - The unseen. But the Scenario he was Different. So Allah Had to show him (teach him). Allah Cannot send a prophet to a Qom and not Aid him. Allah Aids All his prophets and teaching them before Proceeding into an act of Mistake in the actual Qom (the prophets nation) is a must, otherwise people would Reject if the Scenario happened in reality of the Qom.

(wasalam) 

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It would be impossible for him to do so, (Since he Knows) - The unseen. But the Scenario he was Different. So Allah Had to show him (teach him). Allah Cannot send a prophet to a Qom and not Aid him. Allah Aids All his prophets and teaching them before Proceeding into an act of Mistake in the actual Qom (the prophets nation) is a must, otherwise people would Reject if the Scenario happened in reality of the Qom.

(wasalam)

So in simple English what you're trying to say is that before this "event" dawud a.s did NOT know that he had to listen to both sides.

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So in simple English what you're trying to say is that before this "event" dawud a.s did NOT know that he had to listen to both sides.

 

 

Since he knows as a prophet (the unseen) He is the most knowledgeable, and the people of his time did not acknowledge that. Therefore him not knowing that such would be Unjust to them. So before such, Allah Taught him. Simply put.

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Since he knows as a prophet (the unseen) He is the most knowledgeable, and the people of his time did not acknowledge that. Therefore him not knowing that such would be Unjust to them. So before such, Allah Taught him. Simply put.

Il ask you again. Did or didn't dawud a.s know that he had to listen to both sides of "events" yes or no

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Il ask you again. Did or didn't dawud a.s know that he had to listen to both sides of "events" yes or no

 

You must be narrow here brother the Answer is clear above. He knew, but Not to the extent where it was Mandatory at all Situations. And that is what Allah Show Prophet Dawud (a.s) That even if he knows Truth, he must act to them Justly.

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You must be narrow here brother the Answer is clear above. He knew, but Not to the extent where it was Mandatory at all Situations. And that is what Allah Show Prophet Dawud (a.s) That even if he knows Truth, he must act to them Justly.

So he made a mistake then, right??

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So he made a mistake then, right??

 

not in Action but in Knowing. And Allah Taught Him. What he should know. And That is not A sin. When you say Mistake do you mean sin? because its clear there was no Sin in this Situation.

 

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not in Action but in Knowing. And Allah Taught Him. What he should know. And That is not A sin. When you say Mistake do you mean sin? because its clear there was no Sin in this Situation.

I shouldn't really reply to you since you're in a state of taqqiyah but just to open your eyes I will.

This is your problem dear friend you don't read quran verses properly and you don't read tafsir but instead jump in with your own explanations and expect everybody to believe you.

Let's read tafsir shall we

You said dawud a.s never knew that he had to listen to both sides in every case.

Well let's see what the tafsir has to say:

One of them said: "This my brother has a flock of 99 sheep, and I had but one; yet he wants me to give up my one sheep to his keeping. He talks like one intending mischief." Without giving a chance to the other who also came to him as a contender Dawud decreed his demand unjust. The two angels disappeared as mysteriously as they had come. IT WAS THEN REALISED BY DAWUD a.s that it was a TRIAL.In self-complacence he passed the judgement before listening to the defendant. As soon as it became evident to him, he turned to Allah in repentance.

http://quran.al-islam.org

So as soon as the angels disappeared dawud a.s REALISED that it was a TRIAL.

Now you tell me how can dawud a.s REALISE that he had made a mistake IF HE NEVER KNEW THAT HE HAD TO LISTEN TO BOTH SIDES before passing judgement.

Simply put, how can you "realise" you have done something wrong if you don't know it's wrong. Dawud a.s according to your theory never knew he had to listen to both sides in every case, so then how can he realise his mistake when the angels left if he never knew it was wrong to pass judgement without listening to both sides.

It only makes sense that dawud a.s knew that he had to listen to both sides and made a mistake.

Also tell me why would Allah (swt) put dawud a.s at trial at something that he "supposedly" never knew. Would it not make more sense that Allah (swt) knew that dawud a.s knew that he had to listen to both sides so Allah ( swt) put him a.s to trial and dawud a.s realised his mistake and then repented.

Oh let me guess.... You're not interested In making sense of things but your only interest is to reply back even if you know you don't make sense.

Edited by Just the truth

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Statement:

I shouldn't really reply to you since you're in a state of taqqiyah but just to open your eyes I will. This is your problem dear friend you don't read quran verses properly and you don't read tafsir but instead jump in with your own explanations and expect everybody to believe you. 

 

The Irony in you is that you judge people knowledge when such of that is not Parallel to yours. You have Constantly came up with excuses on your account which make no sense whatsoever to justify your point, which when I Question it you seem to start moving to the next phase that is not in accordance to the previous one. For your Information how can I jump into Explanations when I clearly made a statement based on what is within the verse. You claim I cannot read the verses probably when in Uli al amr your making your assumptions about what is precise and what is not. This is not the way to debate with opponent, by refuting with simple denial. I do not hate you. nor do I envy you. Yet on every post you love to make the false judgement that I am doing Taqiya. Do you know how to talk to your brother in Islam with sensible manners? Or does the other sects ignite your anger when your beliefs are not proven? This is not the logical way to approach truth, and comprehend with what is Factually Authentic from both our side. No Side comments, nor Logical aspect in Response, nor Factual refutation as ever been provided to me, since the first of our Dialogue. You must come to the conclusion of accepting that, which is in the foundation of where your beliefs originate from. That why it is irrational to claim that I am "From the Basics" Wrong. And Nor Do I have the right to completely claim totally your beliefs are Wrong. I would not dare to claim so, but rather I claim the falseness that is found between them, and leave what is there for you to judge. There was no rmules and Regulation in this debate to being with, So your approach to the debate was baseless and mind was of that the same for not realizing that you had no Intention for Law of debate to commence in the dialogue. I try my best to Understand verses as they are and Know them according to the tafsir as our Scholars, but I can never interpret a verse completely without knowing what our dear prophet peace be upon him and his households have said concerning that particular issue or meaning. Little do I know, my Knowledge and yours are that, which has limits, but I can never judge your ability in it and nor can you judge mine, for it would be foolish to judge people from Infancy, or at background and personality, without knowing in real life. Experience is Crucial in knowing a person.        

 

 

 

Statement:

 

 You said dawud a.s never knew that he had to listen to both sides in every case.Simply put, how can you "realise" you have done something wrong if you don't know it's wrong. Dawud a.s according to your theory never knew he had to listen to both sides in every case, so then how can he realise his mistake when the angels left if he never knew it was wrong to pass judgement without listening to both sides.bIt only makes sense that dawud a.s knew that he had to listen to both sides and made a mistake. Also tell me why would Allah put dawud a.s at trial at something that he "supposedly" never knew. Would it not make more sense that Allah  knew that dawud a.s knew that he had to listen to both sides so Allah ( swt) put him a.s to trial and dawud a.s realised his mistake and then repented. Oh let me guess.... You're not interested In making sense of things but your only interest is to reply back even if you know you don't make sense.

  

 

 

This is false and you have taken My stance out of context, I said it was due to the situation of Dawud (a.s) at that very moment and not in "Every case" as you claim it to be and accuse me of it. The prophet Dawud (a.s) knew how to judge people, he knew the right way, but at the Test he realized it to be more mandatory and that is the Hujja on Bani Israel at the time, that Allah taught him the this concept of judgement. Like how Allah Taught prophet Muhammad (a.s) all that which he knows, which he did not know Initially and then later teaching the nations. All prophets at the time of their test, they where tested with difficultly, And Allah makes such a test unknown to them to teach them. Otherwise for example you cannot have a teacher that does not know the concepts and yet goes off teaching students. In This you can never have any test After the start of prophethood Adam (a.s), that 'Will' Make a prophet Sin. This is completely Impossible, because of such a prophet sinned, then people would have doubt it in his message and prophethood which Allah has given him, and Allah Can never put a prophet (Remember I am saying From the start of prophethood (When Adam came to Earth 'As' A prophet)) in that state where he tested and he sins, if so one fails, then how ells would you become a prophet? you Infact would not be able to if you failed. All prophets know The Unseen and between whats wrong and whats right even at the Situation ob being tested. Here Dawud (a.s) After his Realization he Knew he should have made a Justice in that time, and so he asks Allah for forgiveness for his action, but not that it was false, but due to his late realization of what was the 'Better' option. This is the lesson, Allah Teaches Dawud (a.s) and this is How Allah Taught all of his Prophets (peace be upon them All) by test and Revelation of the truth, but keep in mind its impossible Allah would make them sin during that test, because how would such a man become a prophet and a guide for the people? would I follow a person we has the Ability just as I to commit sin? this is Invalid my dear friend. So Repentance does mean it 'Only' Comes after Sin, it can also come from Regret, Realization, Defeat, not knowing, doing something unwillingly, Forced, Anger, Intention and so on. Therefore Initially no Mistake in the means of a Sin, has being committed. And Sin is when is something against the commandments of Allah, which no prophet would do.

 

So my dear brother
 

1. Infallibility is a state of the soul that makes an infallible person shun sins or any unpalatable acts and protects him from mistakes and forgetfulness without negating his free will.

 

 

2. The secret behind the infallibility of the prophets lies in their direct vision and intuition of reality, their perfect faith and certainty, and their deep love for Allah (awj); along with their profound awareness of Allah’s (awj) majesty and the realization of His attributes. In addition, through infallibility, Allah (awj) strengthens the prophets against the deceptions of Satan and the desires of the carnal soul.

 

 

3. Numerous rational proofs confirm the necessity of the infallibility of the prophets. The clearest of these proofs is the fact that Allah’s (awj) purpose in creating man can only be fulfilled through their infallibility.

 

 

4. If some verses of the Qur`an seem at first glance to contradict these rational proofs, we must examine those verses more carefully, reflect deeper on their apparent meaning, and uncover their true meaning.         

 

 

5. Numerous verses affirm the existence and even the necessity of infallibility, although the term “infallibility” has not been used.           

Edited by TheIslamHistory

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Statement:

I shouldn't really reply to you since you're in a state of taqqiyah but just to open your eyes I will. This is your problem dear friend you don't read quran verses properly and you don't read tafsir but instead jump in with your own explanations and expect everybody to believe you.

The Irony in you is that you judge people knowledge when such of that is not Parallel to yours. You have Constantly came up with excuses on your account which make no sense whatsoever to justify your point, which when I Question it you seem to start moving to the next phase that is not in accordance to the previous one. For your Information how can I jump into Explanations when I clearly made a statement based on what is within the verse. You claim I cannot read the verses probably when in Uli al amr your making your assumptions about what is precise and what is not. This is not the way to debate with opponent, by refuting with simple denial. I do not hate you. nor do I envy you. Yet on every post you love to make the false judgement that I am doing Taqiya. Do you know how to talk to your brother in Islam with sensible manners? Or does the other sects ignite your anger when your beliefs are not proven? This is not the logical way to approach truth, and comprehend with what is Factually Authentic from both our side. No Side comments, nor Logical aspect in Response, nor Factual refutation as ever been provided to me, since the first of our Dialogue. You must come to the conclusion of accepting that, which is in the foundation of where your beliefs originate from. That why it is irrational to claim that I am "From the Basics" Wrong. And Nor Do I have the right to completely claim totally your beliefs are Wrong. I would not dare to claim so, but rather I claim the falseness that is found between them, and leave what is there for you to judge. There was no rmules and Regulation in this debate to being with, So your approach to the debate was baseless and mind was of that the same for not realizing that you had no Intention for Law of debate to commence in the dialogue. I try my best to Understand verses as they are and Know them according to the tafsir as our Scholars, but I can never interpret a verse completely without knowing what our dear prophet peace be upon him and his households have said concerning that particular issue or meaning. Little do I know, my Knowledge and yours are that, which has limits, but I can never judge your ability in it and nor can you judge mine, for it would be foolish to judge people from Infancy, or at background and personality, without knowing in real life. Experience is Crucial in knowing a person.

Statement:

You said dawud a.s never knew that he had to listen to both sides in every case.Simply put, how can you "realise" you have done something wrong if you don't know it's wrong. Dawud a.s according to your theory never knew he had to listen to both sides in every case, so then how can he realise his mistake when the angels left if he never knew it was wrong to pass judgement without listening to both sides.bIt only makes sense that dawud a.s knew that he had to listen to both sides and made a mistake. Also tell me why would Allah put dawud a.s at trial at something that he "supposedly" never knew. Would it not make more sense that Allah knew that dawud a.s knew that he had to listen to both sides so Allah ( swt) put him a.s to trial and dawud a.s realised his mistake and then repented. Oh let me guess.... You're not interested In making sense of things but your only interest is to reply back even if you know you don't make sense.

This is false and you have taken My stance out of context, I said it was due to the situation of Dawud (a.s) at that very moment and not in "Every case" as you claim it to be and accuse me of it. The prophet Dawud (a.s) knew how to judge people, he knew the right way, but at the Test he realized it to be more mandatory and that is the Hujja on Bani Israel at the time, that Allah taught him the this concept of judgement. Like how Allah Taught prophet Muhammad (a.s) all that which he knows, which he did not know Initially and then later teaching the nations. All prophets at the time of their test, they where tested with difficultly, And Allah makes such a test unknown to them to teach them. Otherwise for example you cannot have a teacher that does not know the concepts and yet goes off teaching students. In This you can never have any test After the start of prophethood Adam (a.s), that 'Will' Make a prophet Sin. This is completely Impossible, because of such a prophet sinned, then people would have doubt it in his message and prophethood which Allah has given him, and Allah Can never put a prophet (Remember I am saying From the start of prophethood (When Adam came to Earth 'As' A prophet)) in that state where he tested and he sins, if so one fails, then how ells would you become a prophet? you Infact would not be able to if you failed. All prophets know The Unseen and between whats wrong and whats right even at the Situation ob being tested. Here Dawud (a.s) After his Realization he Knew he should have made a Justice in that time, and so he asks Allah for forgiveness for his action, but not that it was false, but due to his late realization of what was the 'Better' option. This is the lesson, Allah Teaches Dawud (a.s) and this is How Allah Taught all of his Prophets (peace be upon them All) by test and Revelation of the truth, but keep in mind its impossible Allah would make them sin during that test, because how would such a man become a prophet and a guide for the people? would I follow a person we has the Ability just as I to commit sin? this is Invalid my dear friend. So Repentance does mean it 'Only' Comes after Sin, it can also come from Regret, Realization, Defeat, not knowing, doing something unwillingly, Forced, Anger, Intention and so on. Therefore Initially no Mistake in the means of a Sin, has being committed. And Sin is when is something against the commandments of Allah, which no prophet would do.

So my dear brother

1. Infallibility is a state of the soul that makes an infallible person shun sins or any unpalatable acts and protects him from mistakes and forgetfulness without negating his free will.

2. The secret behind the infallibility of the prophets lies in their direct vision and intuition of reality, their perfect faith and certainty, and their deep love for Allah (awj); along with their profound awareness of Allah’s (awj) majesty and the realization of His attributes. In addition, through infallibility, Allah (awj) strengthens the prophets against the deceptions of Satan and the desires of the carnal soul.

3. Numerous rational proofs confirm the necessity of the infallibility of the prophets. The clearest of these proofs is the fact that Allah’s (awj) purpose in creating man can only be fulfilled through their infallibility.

4. If some verses of the Qur`an seem at first glance to contradict these rational proofs, we must examine those verses more carefully, reflect deeper on their apparent meaning, and uncover their true meaning.

5. Numerous verses affirm the existence and even the necessity of infallibility, although the term “infallibility” has not been used.

Your answer makes zero sense dear friend. Instead of writing a long baseless reply just tell me plain and simple did dawud a.s at that time make a mistake of not listening to both sides. Also tell me plain and simple did dawud a.s know before this event that listening to both sides of a story in any case is a must

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Statement:

I shouldn't really reply to you since you're in a state of taqqiyah but just to open your eyes I will. This is your problem dear friend you don't read quran verses properly and you don't read tafsir but instead jump in with your own explanations and expect everybody to believe you.

The Irony in you is that you judge people knowledge when such of that is not Parallel to yours. You have Constantly came up with excuses on your account which make no sense whatsoever to justify your point, which when I Question it you seem to start moving to the next phase that is not in accordance to the previous one. For your Information how can I jump into Explanations when I clearly made a statement based on what is within the verse. You claim I cannot read the verses probably when in Uli al amr your making your assumptions about what is precise and what is not. This is not the way to debate with opponent, by refuting with simple denial. I do not hate you. nor do I envy you. Yet on every post you love to make the false judgement that I am doing Taqiya. Do you know how to talk to your brother in Islam with sensible manners? Or does the other sects ignite your anger when your beliefs are not proven? This is not the logical way to approach truth, and comprehend with what is Factually Authentic from both our side. No Side comments, nor Logical aspect in Response, nor Factual refutation as ever been provided to me, since the first of our Dialogue. You must come to the conclusion of accepting that, which is in the foundation of where your beliefs originate from. That why it is irrational to claim that I am "From the Basics" Wrong. And Nor Do I have the right to completely claim totally your beliefs are Wrong. I would not dare to claim so, but rather I claim the falseness that is found between them, and leave what is there for you to judge. There was no rmules and Regulation in this debate to being with, So your approach to the debate was baseless and mind was of that the same for not realizing that you had no Intention for Law of debate to commence in the dialogue. I try my best to Understand verses as they are and Know them according to the tafsir as our Scholars, but I can never interpret a verse completely without knowing what our dear prophet peace be upon him and his households have said concerning that particular issue or meaning. Little do I know, my Knowledge and yours are that, which has limits, but I can never judge your ability in it and nor can you judge mine, for it would be foolish to judge people from Infancy, or at background and personality, without knowing in real life. Experience is Crucial in knowing a person.

Statement:

You said dawud a.s never knew that he had to listen to both sides in every case.Simply put, how can you "realise" you have done something wrong if you don't know it's wrong. Dawud a.s according to your theory never knew he had to listen to both sides in every case, so then how can he realise his mistake when the angels left if he never knew it was wrong to pass judgement without listening to both sides.bIt only makes sense that dawud a.s knew that he had to listen to both sides and made a mistake. Also tell me why would Allah put dawud a.s at trial at something that he "supposedly" never knew. Would it not make more sense that Allah knew that dawud a.s knew that he had to listen to both sides so Allah ( swt) put him a.s to trial and dawud a.s realised his mistake and then repented. Oh let me guess.... You're not interested In making sense of things but your only interest is to reply back even if you know you don't make sense.

This is false and you have taken My stance out of context, I said it was due to the situation of Dawud (a.s) at that very moment and not in "Every case" as you claim it to be and accuse me of it. The prophet Dawud (a.s) knew how to judge people, he knew the right way, but at the Test he realized it to be more mandatory and that is the Hujja on Bani Israel at the time, that Allah taught him the this concept of judgement. Like how Allah Taught prophet Muhammad (a.s) all that which he knows, which he did not know Initially and then later teaching the nations. All prophets at the time of their test, they where tested with difficultly, And Allah makes such a test unknown to them to teach them. Otherwise for example you cannot have a teacher that does not know the concepts and yet goes off teaching students. In This you can never have any test After the start of prophethood Adam (a.s), that 'Will' Make a prophet Sin. This is completely Impossible, because of such a prophet sinned, then people would have doubt it in his message and prophethood which Allah has given him, and Allah Can never put a prophet (Remember I am saying From the start of prophethood (When Adam came to Earth 'As' A prophet)) in that state where he tested and he sins, if so one fails, then how ells would you become a prophet? you Infact would not be able to if you failed. All prophets know The Unseen and between whats wrong and whats right even at the Situation ob being tested. Here Dawud (a.s) After his Realization he Knew he should have made a Justice in that time, and so he asks Allah for forgiveness for his action, but not that it was false, but due to his late realization of what was the 'Better' option. This is the lesson, Allah Teaches Dawud (a.s) and this is How Allah Taught all of his Prophets (peace be upon them All) by test and Revelation of the truth, but keep in mind its impossible Allah would make them sin during that test, because how would such a man become a prophet and a guide for the people? would I follow a person we has the Ability just as I to commit sin? this is Invalid my dear friend. So Repentance does mean it 'Only' Comes after Sin, it can also come from Regret, Realization, Defeat, not knowing, doing something unwillingly, Forced, Anger, Intention and so on. Therefore Initially no Mistake in the means of a Sin, has being committed. And Sin is when is something against the commandments of Allah, which no prophet would do.

So my dear brother

1. Infallibility is a state of the soul that makes an infallible person shun sins or any unpalatable acts and protects him from mistakes and forgetfulness without negating his free will.

2. The secret behind the infallibility of the prophets lies in their direct vision and intuition of reality, their perfect faith and certainty, and their deep love for Allah (awj); along with their profound awareness of Allah’s (awj) majesty and the realization of His attributes. In addition, through infallibility, Allah (awj) strengthens the prophets against the deceptions of Satan and the desires of the carnal soul.

3. Numerous rational proofs confirm the necessity of the infallibility of the prophets. The clearest of these proofs is the fact that Allah’s (awj) purpose in creating man can only be fulfilled through their infallibility.

4. If some verses of the Qur`an seem at first glance to contradict these rational proofs, we must examine those verses more carefully, reflect deeper on their apparent meaning, and uncover their true meaning.

5. Numerous verses affirm the existence and even the necessity of infallibility, although the term “infallibility” has not been used.

This is false and you have taken My stance out of context, I said it was due to the situation of Dawud (a.s) at that very moment and not in "Every case" as you claim it to be and accuse me of it.

MY ANSWER

So what you're saying is dawud a.s knew he a.s had to listen to both sides.

The prophet Dawud (a.s) knew how to judge people, he knew the right way, but at the Test he realized it to be more mandatory and that is the Hujja on Bani Israel at the time, that Allah TAUGHT HIM the this concept of judgement.

MY ANSWER

... And here you contradict yourself and make no sense.

Tell me when did Allah ( swt ) "teach him". Before this event took place or after this event.

Your answers make no sense as usual

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Statement:

... And here you contradict yourself and make no sense.  Tell me when did Allah ( swt ) "teach him". Before this event took place or after this event.

 

(1) Explain and quote how Am I contradicting me self. 
(2) During the event.

 

Statement:

Your answers make no sense as usual 

 

Dear friend if my Answer makes no sense please quote which statement you are failing to Understand and read.


 

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Statement:

... And here you contradict yourself and make no sense. Tell me when did Allah ( swt ) "teach him". Before this event took place or after this event.

(1) Explain and quote how Am I contradicting me self.

(2) During the event.

Statement:

Your answers make no sense as usual

Dear friend if my Answer makes no sense please quote which statement you are failing to Understand and read.

I did read my reply

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