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peace seeker

Did The Prophet (S) Appoint A Successor?

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Firstly I've always believed wives are AHLE BAYT.

Secondly you admit that the prophet (pbuh) never did the dua for himself but for the people under the cloak so il ask you again.

If the four people were "born" infallible why did Allah ( swt) say he INTENDS TO PURIFY THEM and also the prophet did the dua for them.

I will reply to the rest of your posts later on

 

(1) The prophet was Making Dua And then Gabrial came down to be with them and told them what Allah said. And Through that we know that they are the five Main members of Ahlulbayt (a.s). Read the Whole Hadith before making False Assumptions.

(2) The wives are not of Ahlulbayt. You never proved so. 

(3) Stick to the Thread on Uli al amr. and Stop Spamming.

(4) So according to your logic, anything Said in the Quran Happened during the Time of prophet Muhammad (a.s)? This is Invalid. because your saying why would Allah say "Intend". First you must tell me when Allah Intends to do something does he do it, or cannot do it? (Na'zaobillah). So we now that Allah has Purified them. And now you tell me is the prophet peace be upon him not Infallible? Or To you can he make mistakes? The prophet peace be upon him cannot "become" Infallible "At that Moment" that means he was not Infallible before in the start of his Prophethood. This is Invalid. Therefore They are Purified When they where first Created as souls.

(wasalam)

   

 

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(1) The prophet was Making Dua And then Gabrial came down to be with them and told them what Allah said. And Through that we know that they are the five Main members of Ahlulbayt (a.s). Read the Whole Hadith before making False Assumptions.

(2) The wives are not of Ahlulbayt. You never proved so.

(3) Stick to the Thread on Uli al amr. and Stop Spamming.

(4) So according to your logic, anything Said in the Quran Happened during the Time of prophet Muhammad (a.s)? This is Invalid. because your saying why would Allah say "Intend". First you must tell me when Allah Intends to do something does he do it, or cannot do it? (Na'zaobillah). So we now that Allah has Purified them. And now you tell me is the prophet peace be upon him not Infallible? Or To you can he make mistakes? The prophet peace be upon him cannot "become" Infallible "At that Moment" that means he was not Infallible before in the start of his Prophethood. This is Invalid. Therefore They are Purified When they where first Created as souls.

(wasalam)

You are like always MASSIVELY MISTAKEN. Re read what is said in the hadith:

44O Allah! Bestow Your Blessings, Benevolence, Forgiveness and Your pleasure upon me and upon them. And remove IMPURITY from THEM and keep THEM THOROUGHLY PURE"فَاجْعَلْ صَلَوَاتِكَ وَبَرَكَاتِكَ وَرَحْمَتِكَ وَغُفْرَانِكَ وَرِضْوَانِكَ عَلَيَّ وَعَلَيْهِمْ وَأَذْهِبْ عَنْهُمُ الرِّجْسَ وَطَهِّرهُمْ تَطْهِيراً 44

So stop lying because the verse of purification was sent for the "AHLE BAYT" and not the holy prophet (pbuh) himself.

So now tell me why Allah INTENDS to PURIFY THEM if they were born infallible??

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You are like always MASSIVELY MISTAKEN. Re read what is said in the hadith:

44O Allah! Bestow Your Blessings, Benevolence, Forgiveness and Your pleasure upon me and upon them. And remove IMPURITY from THEM and keep THEM THOROUGHLY PURE"فَاجْعَلْ صَلَوَاتِكَ وَبَرَكَاتِكَ وَرَحْمَتِكَ وَغُفْرَانِكَ وَرِضْوَانِكَ عَلَيَّ وَعَلَيْهِمْ وَأَذْهِبْ عَنْهُمُ الرِّجْسَ وَطَهِّرهُمْ تَطْهِيراً 44

So stop lying because the verse of purification was sent for the "AHLE BAYT" and not the holy prophet (pbuh) himself.

So now tell me why Allah INTENDS to PURIFY THEM if they were born infallible??

 

 

(1) Genius the prophet Is saying that to his Ahlulabyt, and he is a part of Ahulbayt. 

(2) I am not Mistaken (as Always) to you everything I say is of no sense since it does not much your ideology.

(3) How would I know why Allah Would say this? I am surely not the prophet nor am I an Imam. But If Allah has Intended then he must have Indeed Purified them. And If Allah Has Purified them at that Moment this would be Invalid, because the prophet is infallible from birth, and Infallibility is crucial from the start of his Prophethood.

(wasalam)   

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(1) Genius the prophet Is saying that to his Ahlulabyt, and he is a part of Ahulbayt.

(2) I am not Mistaken (as Always) to you everything I say is of no sense since it does not much your ideology.

(3) How would I know why Allah Would say this? I am surely not the prophet nor am I an Imam. But If Allah has Intended then he must have Indeed Purified them. And If Allah Has Purified them at that Moment this would be Invalid, because the prophet is infallible from birth, and Infallibility is crucial from the start of his Prophethood.

(wasalam)

1. Genius stop running in circles!!

The prophet (pbuh) is AHLE BAYT no doubt BUT this specific verse on purification WAS NOT sent for the prophet (pbuh) and this is why the prophet (pbuh) is saying purify THEM and not saying purify US. The prophet was born infallible so this verse was NOT for him BUT for AHLE BAYT who were not born infallible.

2. Yes you are mistaken answer point1. You are NOT interested in a "conclusion" but instead interested in forcing your "opinion" on others.

3. Refer to point 1. The prophet (pbuh) IS AHLE BAYT but this verse was sent for the other personalities that is why the prophet (pbuh) said purify THEM.

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1. Genius stop running in circles!!

The prophet (pbuh) is AHLE BAYT no doubt BUT this specific verse on purification WAS NOT sent for the prophet (pbuh) and this is why the prophet (pbuh) is saying purify THEM and not saying purify US. The prophet was born infallible so this verse was NOT for him BUT for AHLE BAYT who were not born infallible.

2. Yes you are mistaken answer point1. You are NOT interested in a "conclusion" but instead interested in forcing your "opinion" on others.

3. Refer to point 1. The prophet (pbuh) IS AHLE BAYT but this verse was sent for the other personalities that is why the prophet (pbuh) said purify THEM.

 

 

(1) Cut the Insults and false claims. I am not running around dear friend.

(2) The Prophet peace be upon is one of the Five members of the Kisa and he was with them under the Kisa you cannot exclude him from the Kisa. And the verse was sent down by Allah, the prophet did not claim the verse ob just four of the members. Please use your common reasoning and simple logic.

(3) how Am I forcing the opinion of others? When you are the one who claimed he is coming back to Defend the Ahlul-Sunnah and the Jama. So your intention is not to reach a conclusion at all, but rather refute what ever is non sense to you.

(4) Allah said clearly the five Individuals in the Hadith al Kisa and said what he said to them. The prophet was Praying for his family, but the does not make the Members of Ahlulbayt only four so the verse cannot be only for the four members.

You really need face the truth.

(wasalam)  

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(1) Cut the Insults and false claims. I am not running around dear friend.

(2) The Prophet peace be upon is one of the Five members of the Kisa and he was with them under the Kisa you cannot exclude him from the Kisa. And the verse was sent down by Allah, the prophet did not claim the verse ob just four of the members. Please use your common reasoning and simple logic.

(3) how Am I forcing the opinion of others? When you are the one who claimed he is coming back to Defend the Ahlul-Sunnah and the Jama. So your intention is not to reach a conclusion at all, but rather refute what ever is non sense to you.

(4) Allah said clearly the five Individuals in the Hadith al Kisa and said what he said to them. The prophet was Praying for his family, but the does not make the Members of Ahlulbayt only four so the verse cannot be only for the four members.

You really need face the truth.

(wasalam)

1. Whatever you say

2. Lol... Get a grip. Read what the prophet (pbuh) said he said PURIFY THEM so get to grips with it.

Time to face truth and reality

(1) Cut the Insults and false claims. I am not running around dear friend.

(2) The Prophet peace be upon is one of the Five members of the Kisa and he was with them under the Kisa you cannot exclude him from the Kisa. And the verse was sent down by Allah, the prophet did not claim the verse ob just four of the members. Please use your common reasoning and simple logic.

(3) how Am I forcing the opinion of others? When you are the one who claimed he is coming back to Defend the Ahlul-Sunnah and the Jama. So your intention is not to reach a conclusion at all, but rather refute what ever is non sense to you.

(4) Allah said clearly the five Individuals in the Hadith al Kisa and said what he said to them. The prophet was Praying for his family, but the does not make the Members of Ahlulbayt only four so the verse cannot be only for the four members.

You really need face the truth.

(wasalam)

1. Whatever you say

2. Lol... Get a grip. Read what the prophet (pbuh) said he said PURIFY THEM so get to grips with it.

Time to face truth and reality

Allah (swt) said he INTENDS TOPURIFY AHLE BAYT and the prophet (pbuh) made a dua saying Allah PURIFY THEM.

Get to grips with it

Edited by Just the truth

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1. Whatever you say

2. Lol... Get a grip. Read what the prophet (pbuh) said he said PURIFY THEM so get to grips with it.

Time to face truth and reality

1. Whatever you say

2. Lol... Get a grip. Read what the prophet (pbuh) said he said PURIFY THEM so get to grips with it.

Time to face truth and reality

 

 

And here you have ceased to prove your point. Please be Rational. its clear the Ahlulbayt are five members so in the Quran they cannot be just Four as the verse was sent down by Allah. they are five and they are all purified.

(wasalam)

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And here you have ceased to prove your point. Please be Rational. its clear the Ahlulbayt are five members so in the Quran they cannot be just Four as the verse was sent down by Allah. they are five and they are all purified.

(wasalam)

Errrrrr.... NO. You're wrong again. You admitted earlier in this thread that this dua was not for the prophet (pbuh) but for his AHLE BAYT but now you're chancing your stance because you're stick.

Allah ( swt) says he INTENDS TO PURIFY and then the prophet (pbuh) made a dua for his AHLE BAYT saying Allah (swt) PURIFY THEM.

YOU SAID THIS IN YOUR PREVIOUS RELPY

Dear brother, Thank you for replying. And Taking the time to read my responses, May Allah increase your knowledge and mine of what we can come about/bring about on this debate. May Allah guide us on the straight path and to the readers this post, I wish, that it will become of most benefit whom who ever reads it Inshalla.

1.) Very well pointed out & explained, very good points you have made.

Now if analyze what you have nicely stated from the Hadith Al Kisa: 44 in the Al-Islam site.

فَاجْعَلْ صَلَوَاتِكَ وَبَرَكَاتِكَ وَرَحْمَتِكَ وَغُفْرَانِكَ وَرِضْوَانِكَ عَلَيَّ وَعَلَيْهِمْ وَأَذْهِبْ عَنْهُمُ الرِّجْسَ وَطَهِّرهُمْ تَطْهِيراً

44. O Allah! Bestow Your Blessings, Benevolence, Forgiveness and Your pleasure upon me and upon them. And remove impurity from them and keep them thoroughly pure"

Yes as you can see, what the prophet stated was very clear. The prophet as you claimed yes he has used "us" In the the term when saying "Me & them" in Following Hadith, he has has as you can see, WAS ALWAYS REFERRING TO HIS AHLE BAYT . Now this is a very good point so lets analyze this part of the hadith (44). Now as you can see the prophet (s) is asking Allah to bestow his blessings, benevolence, forgiveness, pleasure on "me and them." (us), We see here has included himself with them and switch's to just "them." as you stated. But my dear brother, the word "US" is different in the Arabic language as you know its Arabic it would be said as: " علينا" (us) but the prophet (s) instead said: "عليَّ و عليهم" at first and then like you said he switched to them (عليهم). You see, You need to look at the initial beginning of the haith (Duas) as you can see, the prophet (s) started with in his Dua and look at what he says about his beloved Ahlulbayt, truly it tears the Faithfuls heart:

Edited by Just the truth

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Errrrrr.... NO. You're wrong again. You admitted earlier in this thread that this dua was not for the prophet (pbuh) but for his AHLE BAYT but now you're chancing your stance because you're stick.

Allah ( swt) says he INTENDS TO PURIFY and then the prophet (pbuh) made a dua for his AHLE BAYT saying Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì PURIFY THEM.

YOU SAID THIS IN YOUR PREVIOUS RELPY

Dear brother, Thank you for replying. And Taking the time to read my responses, May Allah increase your knowledge and mine of what we can come about/bring about on this debate. May Allah guide us on the straight path and to the readers this post, I wish, that it will become of most benefit whom who ever reads it Inshalla.

1.) Very well pointed out & explained, very good points you have made.

Now if analyze what you have nicely stated from the Hadith Al Kisa: 44 in the Al-Islam site.

فَاجْعَلْ صَلَوَاتِكَ وَبَرَكَاتِكَ وَرَحْمَتِكَ وَغُفْرَانِكَ وَرِضْوَانِكَ عَلَيَّ وَعَلَيْهِمْ وَأَذْهِبْ عَنْهُمُ الرِّجْسَ وَطَهِّرهُمْ تَطْهِيراً

44. O Allah! Bestow Your Blessings, Benevolence, Forgiveness and Your pleasure upon me and upon them. And remove impurity from them and keep them thoroughly pure"

Yes as you can see, what the prophet stated was very clear. The prophet as you claimed yes he has used "us" In the the term when saying "Me & them" in Following Hadith, he has has as you can see, was always referring to his Ahlullbayt . Now this is a very good point so lets analyze this part of the hadith (44). Now as you can see the prophet (s) is asking Allah to bestow his blessings, benevolence, forgiveness, pleasure on "me and them." (us), We see here has included himself with them and switch's to just "them." as you stated. But my dear brother, the word "US" is different in the Arabic language as you know its Arabic it would be said as: " علينا" (us) but the prophet (s) instead said: "عليَّ و عليهم" at first and then like you said he switched to them (عليهم). You see, You need to look at the initial beginning of the haith (Duas) as you can see, the prophet (s) started with in his Dua and look at what he says about his beloved Ahlulbayt, truly it tears the Faithfuls heart:

 

 

(1) I did not Exclude the prophet from Ahlulbayt. 

(2) this was a good Analyses to prove to you who are Ahlulbayt since from the very beginning you claimed that Ahlulbayt are all the people from the Lineage of the prophet which I proved you wrong.

(3) And therefore Claiming this "Stance" to prove what I claimed earlier.

(4) If you keep reading the Dua you must see what Gabrial said to the prophet and what Allah has said to Ahlulbayt and put them a whole, and purified them as a whole.

   

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(1) I did not Exclude the prophet from Ahlulbayt.

(2) this was a good Analyses to prove to you who are Ahlulbayt since from the very beginning you claimed that Ahlulbayt are all the people from the Lineage of the prophet which I proved you wrong.

(3) And therefore Claiming this "Stance" to prove what I claimed earlier.

(4) If you keep reading the Dua you must see what Gabrial said to the prophet and what Allah has said to Ahlulbayt and put them a whole, and purified them as a whole.

1. I never said you did.

2. Errr... No. You've magically changed your stance from saying the dua was for the four people under the cloak to now saying that the prophet (pbuh) included himself in the dua when the prophet (pbuh) clearly says PURIFY THEM.

3. More like Contradicting yourself.

4. Errr... No mate jibril a.s repeated the words of the prophet (pbuh) and did a dua for the four personalities.

First the prophet said PURIFY THEM and then jibril a.s repeated these words

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1. I never said you did.

2. Errr... No. You've magically changed your stance from saying the dua was for the four people under the cloak to now saying that the prophet (pbuh) included himself in the dua when the prophet (pbuh) clearly says PURIFY THEM.

3. More like Contradicting yourself.

4. Errr... No mate jibril a.s repeated the words of the prophet (pbuh) and did a dua for the four personalities.

First the prophet said PURIFY THEM and then jibril a.s repeated these words

(1) Gabrial Said what Allah has said to the prophet, and the prophet was Included.

(2) The prophet was parying for them, and him self:

 

 

Yes as you can see, what the prophet stated was very clear. The prophet as you claimed yes he has used "us" In the the term when saying "Me & them" in Following Hadith, he has has as you can see, was always referring to his Ahlullbayt . Now this is a very good point so lets analyze this part of the hadith (44). Now as you can see the prophet (s) is asking Allah to bestow his blessings, benevolence, forgiveness, pleasure on "me and them." (us), We see here has included himself with them and switch's to just "them." as you stated. But my dear brother, the word "US" is different in the Arabic language as you know its Arabic it would be said as: " علينا" (us) but the prophet (s) instead said: "عليَّ و عليهم" at first and then like you said he switched to them (عليهم). You see, You need to look at the initial beginning of the haith (Duas) as you can see, the prophet (s) started with in his Dua and look at what he says about his beloved Ahlulbayt, truly it tears the Faithfuls heart:

 

 

You took this out of Context, this was the reply when you claimed false Reasons how the wives or everyone from the prophet is of Ahlulbayt (a.s).

 

And in verse 33:33 it is Ahlulbayt, and Allah has Purified them all. So are you saying Allah did no Purify the prophet peace be upon him? he is not of Ahlulbayt? Please read Clearly with Rationality.

(wasalam)

 

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(1) Gabrial Said what Allah has said to the prophet, and the prophet was Included.

(2) The prophet was parying for them, and him self:

You took this out of Context, this was the reply when you claimed false Reasons how the wives or everyone from the prophet is of Ahlulbayt (a.s).

And in verse 33:33 it is Ahlulbayt, and Allah has Purified them all. So are you saying Allah did no Purify the prophet peace be upon him? he is not of Ahlulbayt? Please read Clearly with Rationality.

(wasalam)

I'm not taking anything out of context you clearly said the prophet (pbuh) was doing the dua for his AHLE BAYT and himself.

How can the prophet pray for himself and for them when he clearly said PURIFY THEM.

Jibril a.s repeated the dua of the prophet (pbuh).

The prophet (pbuh) was born infallible so Allah ( swt) did not INTEND to PURIFY him but as the evidence in the hadith shows that prophet. (Pbuh) makes it crystal clear that the dua was for the others and not himself because he said PURIFY THEM.

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I'm not taking anything out of context you clearly said the prophet (pbuh) was doing the dua for his AHLE BAYT and himself.

How can the prophet pray for himself and for them when he clearly said PURIFY THEM.

Jibril a.s repeated the dua of the prophet (pbuh).

The prophet (pbuh) was born infallible so Allah ( swt) did not INTEND to PURIFY him but as the evidence in the hadith shows that prophet. (pbuh) makes it crystal clear that the dua was for the others and not himself because he said PURIFY THEM.

 

 

First of All please Revise or learn Arabic.

Second of All The five main Members of Ahlulbayt are the prophet, Fatima, hassan, Hussain and Imam Ali. And Allah has Purified them All yes or no?

Third of all go read the reply I was Replying to on this Issue to understand what I meant. And the prophet peace be upon him was praying for them and Him self. And I made no Distinguishing nor did I exclude the prophet from Ahlulbayt.

Tell me did Allah not Purify the prophet from all Rijis yes or no?

I am surprised how your failing to accept the truth. Your Constantly contradicting your self brother.  

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First of All please Revise or learn Arabic.

Second of All The five main Members of Ahlulbayt are the prophet, Fatima, hassan, Hussain and Imam Ali. And Allah has Purified them All yes or no?

Third of all go read the reply I was Replying to on this Issue to understand what I meant. And the prophet peace be upon him was praying for them and Him self. And I made no Distinguishing nor did I exclude the prophet from Ahlulbayt.

Tell me did Allah not Purify the prophet from all Rijis yes or no?

I am surprised how your failing to accept the truth. Your Constantly contradicting your self brother.

No mate you're contradicting yourself. First you say the dua was not for the prophet (pbuh) and now you're saying it was, when the prophet (pbuh) clearly said PURIFY THEM

go and learn Arabic and English

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No mate you're contradicting yourself. First you say the dua was not for the prophet (pbuh) and now you're saying it was, when the prophet (pbuh) clearly said PURIFY THEM

go and learn Arabic and English

 

 

(1) The prophet was Praying for everyone under the Kia Including Him self. And at the end of the Dua Imam Ali (a.s) said that our followers will be Victorious. So that does not make Shia of Ahlulbayt. And Yes My dear brother the prophet said purify them and Included him self.

(2) I Think I know Arabic and English very well. Is that why you gave me false claims on rejecting The Hadith of the two Khailfas? And the false Hadith on claiming that we claim that the Imam must been seen and heard?

(wasalam) 

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(1) The prophet was Praying for everyone under the Kia Including Him self. And at the end of the Dua Imam Ali (a.s) said that our followers will be Victorious. So that does not make Shia of Ahlulbayt. And Yes My dear brother the prophet said purify them and Included him self.

(2) I Think I know Arabic and English very well. Is that why you gave me false claims on rejecting The Hadith of the two Khailfas? And the false Hadith on claiming that we claim that the Imam must been seen and heard?

(wasalam)

1. The prophet (pbuh) said PURIFY THEM. GET OVER IT

2. Like you copy and pasted from that book without reading the preface where it said not all the hadith are authentic yet you still copy and pasted them. Also like when you pointed out that hadith in sahih Muslim which didn't even exist

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1. The prophet (pbuh) said PURIFY THEM. GET OVER IT

2. Like you copy and pasted from that book without reading the preface where it said not all the hadith are authentic yet you still copy and pasted them. Also like when you pointed out that hadith in sahih Muslim which didn't even exist

 

(1) And? he Included him self? Whats your point?

(2) Which Hadith did I point out which Did not exist?

 

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(1) And? he Included him self? Whats your point?

(2) Which Hadith did I point out which Did not exist?

1. I'm not going to repeat myself

2. Can't remember which one but you did. You copy and pasted from that book anyway

ANYWAY

DO YOU WANT TO REACH A CONCLUSION. BECAUSE I WANT TO REACH A CONCLUSION IN THE NEXT 15 MINS BECAUSE THIS HAS GONE ON FOR TOO LONG

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1. I'm not going to repeat myself

2. Can't remember which one but you did. You copy and pasted from that book anyway

ANYWAY

DO YOU WANT TO REACH A CONCLUSION. BECAUSE I WANT TO REACH A CONCLUSION IN THE NEXT 15 MINS BECAUSE THIS HAS GONE ON FOR TOO LONG

Brother I assure I never post a Hadith that is false, please prove this since you claimed it to be.

Yes But your goal is to Defend and not to understand right? 

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Brother I assure I never post a Hadith that is false, please prove this since you claimed it to be.

Yes But your goal is to Defend and not to understand right?

Yes you did.just like you copy and pasted from that book

Anyway do you want a conclusion just a simple yes or no

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Yes you did.just like you copy and pasted from that book

Anyway do you want a conclusion just a simple yes or no

(1) Can you please quote where I pasted such a false hadith? Please stop accusing me of Falsehood.

(2) And what is your Conclusion? And what is your point when you have not proven anything from our books? No proofs at all.

 

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(1) Can you please quote where I pasted such a false hadith? Please stop accusing me of Falsehood.

(2) And what is your Conclusion? And what is your point when you have not proven anything from our books? No proofs at all.

No I've not proven anything you're too clever. You're unrefutable. Man you really cornered in prophets a.s makes mistakes I couldn't move.(sarcasm)

Anyway here's the conclusion

You stick to your beliefs and il stick to mine then we'll see when imam mahdi a.s comes and ISA a.s let the best among us win

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No I've not proven anything you're too clever. You're unrefutable. Man you really cornered in prophets a.s makes mistakes I couldn't move.(sarcasm)

Anyway here's the conclusion

You stick to your beliefs and il stick to mine then we'll see when imam mahdi a.s comes and ISA a.s let the best among us win

Brother We are talking about Sins and not mere Mistakes.

Sure no problem.

 

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Brother We are talking about Sins and not mere Mistakes.

Sure no problem.

Err... No. It was a mistake because musa a.s never meant to kill him.

BUT

Like I said we will not agree on anything so the wise thing to do is LEAVE IT OUT.

Best thing to do is you stick to your beliefs and il stick to mine and wait for imam mahdi a.s, ISA a.s and yawm al qiyamah

Edited by Just the truth

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Err... No. It was a mistake because musa a.s never meant to kill him.

BUT

Like I said we will not agree on anything so the wise thing to do is LEAVE IT OUT.

Best thing to do is you stick to your beliefs and il stick to mine and wait for imam mahdi a.s, ISA a.s and yawm al qiyamah

Thats not a Sin for protecting someone from being killed. Where is your Rationality?

 

Okay no problem.

(wasalam)

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Thats not a Sin for protecting someone from being killed. Where is your Rationality?

Okay no problem.

(wasalam)

Bro musa a.s killed a man repented and Allah ( swt) said WE FORGAVE HIM!!

So obviously Allah (swt) forgave him because he made a mistake read the verse with an open heart

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Bro musa a.s killed a man repented and Allah ( swt) said WE FORGAVE HIM!!

So obviously Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì forgave him because he made a mistake read the verse with an open heart

he Did it Unintentionally and for that it cannot be considered as a Sin. Tell me If you see someone trying to kill someone Do you thing the prophet should just stand there and let him die? And the man is calling out for help. can you use your logic?

 

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he Did it Unintentionally and for that it cannot be considered as a Sin. Tell me If you see someone trying to kill someone Do you thing the prophet should just stand there and let him die? And the man is calling out for help. can you use your logic?

Helping somebody and killing the opponent in the process are two different things.

Let's say you kill somebody because you were trying to help somebody else then you make the mistake of killing the opponent then you have commuted an error by killing him.

Musa a.s knew he made a mistake by killing him so he repented and was forgiven

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Helping somebody and killing the opponent in the process are two different things.

Let's say you kill somebody because you were trying to help somebody else then you make the mistake of killing the opponent then you have commuted an error by killing him.

Musa a.s knew he made a mistake by killing him so he repented and was forgiven

 

 

So if I did something Unintentionally I have committed a Sin?

So Its better for prophet Musa (as) to stand and do nothing right? According to you. 

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So if I did something Unintentionally I have committed a Sin?

So Its better for prophet Musa (as) to stand and do nothing right? According to you.

If you do something unintentionally then it's a mistake. Musa a.s never meant to kill the man it was an unintentional mistake

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If you do something unintentionally then it's a mistake. Musa a.s never meant to kill the man it was an unintentional mistake

 

But its not a Sin. and When we say Infallibility it means one cannot commit a Sin.

 

As I said Earlier on:

 

And he entered the city at a time when its people were not aware [of his presence], and found therein two men fighting: one was from his party and the other was from his enemies. [When] the one who was his follower [saw Músa, he] cried out to him for help against the one who was from his enemies. So Músa [went and] struck him with his fist and killed him.

 

[Then Músa] said, “This is Shaytan's deed (عمل الشيطان); surely he is an open enemy who leads [others] astray.” [Músa] said, “My Lord! I surely have been (ظلمتُ نَفسي) unjust to myself; therefore (فاغفر لي) forgive me.” So [Allah] ( غَفَرَ) forgave him; He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.”

 

The common translation of the last verse combined with the statement about the Shaytan creates conflict with the concept of 'ismah, infallibility. When reading these verses, keep the following points in mind:

 

 

What Músa did was not a crime; he went to help an oppressed person and, in the process, struck a blow with his fist at the oppressor. This ended, unexpectedly, in the death of the oppressor. Helping an oppressed person is a praiseworthy act in itself. The death of the oppressor, at most, can be labeled as accidental death that is not a crime or a sin.

 

 

Músa's words that “This is Shaytan's deed” does not necessarily refer to his own action. Remember that the Shaytan himself knew his limits; he says to Allah,

 

 

“…I will certainly mislead them all together except the devoted servants of Your's from among them.” (38:82-83)

And Allah says to the Shaytan,

 

 

“…As for my servants, you have no power over them except those who follow you from among the misled people….” (15:41)

And Músa surely was not among the misled servants of Allah!

 

 

So the sentence that “this is Shaytan's deed” refers to the mischief started by the oppressor himself.

 

As for the sentence that “My Lord I have surely been unjust to myself,” this must be interpreted in light of the meaning of dhulm explained in the case of Prophet Adam (a.s.). Its correct translation would be: “My Lord I surely have put myself into harm” — after the accidental death of the oppressor, Músa was pursued by the people of Fir'awn.

 

 

 

Then how do you explain the sentence after that which says that “ighfir li” which means “forgive me” and“ghafara” which means that Allah “forgave him”?

 

 

Again, the common meaning of ghafara (forgiving) is not applicable here. The word “ghafara” also means “to watch over someone” or “to guard someone” or “to cover something [i.e., protect it]”. This second meaning does not imply any sin; it just means that by accidentally killing the oppressor, Músa found himself in harm and trouble from the people of Fir'awn; and, therefore, he prays ”…therefore, guard me and Allah guarded him.”

 

 

 

This meaning of the last sentence is also supported by another verse of the Qur'an which quotes Allah saying to Músa that, “…when you killed an [Egyptian] man [accidentally and were being pursued by Fir'awn's people], We delivered you from the worry…” (20:40) So the dhulm is explained in this verse as “worry”; and “ghafara”is explained as “delivered”.

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But its not a Sin. and When we say Infallibility it means one cannot commit a Sin.

As I said Earlier on:

And he entered the city at a time when its people were not aware [of his presence], and found therein two men fighting: one was from his party and the other was from his enemies. [When] the one who was his follower [saw Músa, he] cried out to him for help against the one who was from his enemies. So Músa [went and] struck him with his fist and killed him.

[Then Músa] said, “This is Shaytan's deed (عمل الشيطان); surely he is an open enemy who leads [others] astray.” [Músa] said, “My Lord! I surely have been (ظلمتُ نَفسي) unjust to myself; therefore (فاغفر لي) forgive me.” So [Allah] ( غَفَرَ) forgave him; He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.”

The common translation of the last verse combined with the statement about the Shaytan creates conflict with the concept of 'ismah, infallibility. When reading these verses, keep the following points in mind:

What Músa did was not a crime; he went to help an oppressed person and, in the process, struck a blow with his fist at the oppressor. This ended, unexpectedly, in the death of the oppressor. Helping an oppressed person is a praiseworthy act in itself. The death of the oppressor, at most, can be labeled as accidental death that is not a crime or a sin.

Músa's words that “This is Shaytan's deed” does not necessarily refer to his own action. Remember that the Shaytan himself knew his limits; he says to Allah,

“…I will certainly mislead them all together except the devoted servants of Your's from among them.” (38:82-83)

And Allah says to the Shaytan,

“…As for my servants, you have no power over them except those who follow you from among the misled people….” (15:41)

And Músa surely was not among the misled servants of Allah!

So the sentence that “this is Shaytan's deed” refers to the mischief started by the oppressor himself.

As for the sentence that “My Lord I have surely been unjust to myself,” this must be interpreted in light of the meaning of dhulm explained in the case of Prophet Adam (a.s.). Its correct translation would be: “My Lord I surely have put myself into harm” — after the accidental death of the oppressor, Músa was pursued by the people of Fir'awn.

Then how do you explain the sentence after that which says that “ighfir li” which means “forgive me” and“ghafara” which means that Allah “forgave him”?

Again, the common meaning of ghafara (forgiving) is not applicable here. The word “ghafara” also means “to watch over someone” or “to guard someone” or “to cover something [i.e., protect it]”. This second meaning does not imply any sin; it just means that by accidentally killing the oppressor, Músa found himself in harm and trouble from the people of Fir'awn; and, therefore, he prays ”…therefore, guard me and Allah guarded him.”

This meaning of the last sentence is also supported by another verse of the Qur'an which quotes Allah saying to Músa that, “…when you killed an [Egyptian] man [accidentally and were being pursued by Fir'awn's people], We delivered you from the worry…” (20:40) So the dhulm is explained in this verse as “worry”; and “ghafara”is explained as “delivered”.

Bro stop running in circles. Now read this verse

He [Musa] said: ‘My Lord! Verily, I have wronged myself, so forgive me.’ Then He [Allah] FORGAVE HIM. Verily, He is the Oft-Forgiving, the Most Merciful. (Quran, 28:16)

Allah (swt) FORGAVE HIM. First musa a.s repented and then Allah (swt) forgave him. Musa a.s made an unintentional mistake.

You need to understand that musa a.s made an unintentional mistake. He never wanted to kill him but did it unintentionally so it was a mistake

Edited by Just the truth

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Bro stop running in circles. Now read this verse

He [Musa] said: ‘My Lord! Verily, I have wronged myself, so forgive me.’ Then He [Allah] FORGAVE HIM. Verily, He is the Oft-Forgiving, the Most Merciful. (Quran, 28:16)

Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì FORGAVE HIM. First musa a.s repented and then Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì forgave him. Musa a.s made an unintentional mistake.

You need to understand that musa a.s made an unintentional mistake. He never wanted to kill him but did it unintentionally so it was a mistake

 

(1) that is not a Sin.

(2) I am not Running, You are not reading.

(3) how is this a sin? 

(4) I said:

 

Again, the common meaning of ghafara (forgiving) is not applicable here. The word “ghafara” also means “to watch over someone” or “to guard someone” or “to cover something [i.e., protect it]”. This second meaning does not imply any sin; it just means that by accidentally killing the oppressor, Músa found himself in harm and trouble from the people of Fir'awn; and, therefore, he prays ”…therefore, guard me and Allah guarded him.”

 

 

 

This meaning of the last sentence is also supported by another verse of the Qur'an which quotes Allah saying to Músa that, “…when you killed an [Egyptian] man [accidentally and were being pursued by Fir'awn's people], We delivered you from the worry…” (20:40) So the dhulm is explained in this verse as “worry”; and “ghafara”is explained as “delivered”.

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(1) that is not a Sin.

(2) I am not Running, You are not reading.

(3) how is this a sin?

(4) I said:

Again, the common meaning of ghafara (forgiving) is not applicable here. The word “ghafara” also means “to watch over someone” or “to guard someone” or “to cover something [i.e., protect it]”. This second meaning does not imply any sin; it just means that by accidentally killing the oppressor, Músa found himself in harm and trouble from the people of Fir'awn; and, therefore, he prays ”…therefore, guard me and Allah guarded him.”

This meaning of the last sentence is also supported by another verse of the Qur'an which quotes Allah saying to Músa that, “…when you killed an [Egyptian] man [accidentally and were being pursued by Fir'awn's people], We delivered you from the worry…” (20:40) So the dhulm is explained in this verse as “worry”; and “ghafara”is explained as “delivered”.

Bro you've mistranslated the words all you have to do is read the full story and see what musa a.s has to say about the one who was "oppressed" you are only relating to one verse and trying to conclude the whole story. Re read the full story musa a.s realised that the Israelite was in the wrong that's why he was regretful for killing the Egyptian.

Also read the story of dawud a.s when he made the mistake of not listening to both sides of the story then he realised he had been "tried" and realised his mistake and repented and was forgiven.

Brother I am not sitting here waiting for you to "refute" me but all I'm saying is read with an open heart. If you still believe that prophets a.s cannot commit mistakes then that is upto you BUT there is no need for you to reply a long "refutation" because I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe and I think the most wisest thing to do would be to leave it at that because to be honest I don't really want to be here for much longer as this is a total waste of time and I rather spend time in worship and doing other acts which please Allah (swt).

So if you're going to come back with a refutation of my answer then there's really no point as I do not want to get into a long debate because it's already been 3 months and I have lost a lot of valuable time by spending too much time here.

So like I said please do not bother writing a long refutation but I think it would be best if we both part ways after this reply

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Bro you've mistranslated the words all you have to do is read the full story and see what musa a.s has to say about the one who was "oppressed" you are only relating to one verse and trying to conclude the whole story. Re read the full story musa a.s realised that the Israelite was in the wrong that's why he was regretful for killing the Egyptian.

Also read the story of dawud a.s when he made the mistake of not listening to both sides of the story then he realised he had been "tried" and realised his mistake and repented and was forgiven.

Brother I am not sitting here waiting for you to "refute" me but all I'm saying is read with an open heart. If you still believe that prophets a.s cannot commit mistakes then that is upto you BUT there is no need for you to reply a long "refutation" because I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe and I think the most wisest thing to do would be to leave it at that because to be honest I don't really want to be here for much longer as this is a total waste of time and I rather spend time in worship and doing other acts which please Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

So if you're going to come back with a refutation of my answer then there's really no point as I do not want to get into a long debate because it's already been 3 months and I have lost a lot of valuable time by spending too much time here.

So like I said please do not bother writing a long refutation but I think it would be best if we both part ways after this reply

 

 

The sin for which Prophet Musa (a.s.) asked for forgiveness is not the sin of murder. Murder is not a trivial sin; it is a Gunaah-e-Kabeerah. It is nonsensical to think that after a prophet commits a Greater Sin and asks for forgiveness, Allah immediately forgives him ("Do you then forgive me!" So (Allah) forgave him [28:16]), without Prophet Musa (a.s.) having to pay any blood money, or ask forgiveness from the family of the murdered person, or any other act to recompense for the sin of murder.

The sin that Prophet Musa (a.s.) asked forgiveness for was revealing himself to be the promised Messiah to the people of Egypt by answering the call for assistance of his shi'ah before he had been given permission by Allah to reveal his true identity (till then he had been living with the Pharaoh as an ordinary man). Hence he asked forgiveness for his hasty action, and Allah forgave him immediately. The sin of murder is a sin against humanity, and cannot be forgiven in this manner. Allah is not partial towards his prophets (naudzobillah).

(This explanation was provided in an Urdu majlis a couple of years ago. It is no longer available online, but if someone wants the original video file, then they can contact me and I'll try to make it available for downloading.)

As for the other verse where Prophet Musa (a.s.) is confronting Pharaoh, I had asked this question at the "Contact Us" section on the almizan.org website, and this is the response I received:

Question:

> Subject: Prophet Musa in surah 26

> Comments: salamun alaykum,

>

> In verse 20 of surah ash-shu'raa' Prophet Musa is reported to have

> said that he was of "those who were astray". How does one interpret this

> verse in light of the infallibility of the prophets?

According to the principle of the Qur'an and the decisive verses, Prophets

of Allah are protected by Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì from making mistakes, commiting sins -

going astray. Examples of such verses are plenty and we quote a few:

"These are they whom Allah has guided; therefore, follow their guidance".

(6:90)

Comment: This verse proves that all the prophets were decidedly guided by

Allah and other verses (like 18:12) prove that whom Allah guides, is a

rightly guided one meaning, there is none that can lead him astray. Allah

counts every straying as a sin and every sin as a misguidance, according to

verses 36:60-62. Looking at all these verses we find that Allah guided all

the prophets by His guidance. Anyone guided by Allah's guidance can never be

misled, and can never go astray.

"These are they on whom Allah bestowed favors, of the prophets of the

posterity of Adam, and of those whom We carried with Nuh, and of the

posterity of Ibrahim and Israel, and of those whom We guided and chose."

(19:58)

Comment: These verses show that Allah has bestowed His favors upon the

Prophets and the favors are bestowed upon neither those who have been

inflicted with Allah’s wrath nor those who have gone astray. If the Prophets

had committed a sin, they would have gone astray and Allah would not bestow

His favors upon them.

Therefore, the verse you have quoted in surah 26 should be explained in

keeping with the above principle that Prophets of Allah are given divine

protection.

Now let us look at the verse you quoted:

"(Musa) said: "I did it then, when I was of those who are tied up with

error" (26:20)

The root of the word "dzalla" has the following meanings:

1) Lose one's way

2) Go astray

3) Fail

4) Disappear

5) Err

6) Forget

7) Deviate, etc

Notice, we have translated the Arabic word "dzalla" in verse 26:20 as

"error" because it is appropriate according to the context of the verse and

according to the verses preceding it. In verse 26:14, Musa (a.s.) says:

"And they have a charge of crime against me; so I fear that they may kill

me"

The above is one of the reasons Musa (a.s.) gives for fearing that Firawn

will belie him. Now if Musa (a.s.) was guilty of the crime, he probably

would have said: "I have a crime; so I fear that they will kill me". Instead

he says: "they have a charge of crime against me". A charge of crime against

someone does not imply that the person is automatically guilty.

Having understood the context of verse 26:14, what Musa (a.s.) therefore

replied to Firawn is as follows: "I did a deed (killing the aggressor) when

I was of those who was caught up or tied up with the (particular) situation

which was an error on the part of the aggressor". (And Allah knows best!)

 

Prophet Dawood (as) commited the sin of passing judgement before hearing the case of the second disputant. In Verse 38:23-24 of the Quran, Allah Almighty says: "...and he [Dawood] sought forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down prostrate and turned (to Allah) in repentance. So We forgave him that, and verily, for him is a near access to Us, and a good place of (final) return (Paradise)" (38:23-24)"

 

Now my brother let's look at this verse. The story behind it is that two men came to the Prophet (as) and one said that he want's the other brother's sheep for his own self. Nabi Dawud said you're being unjust, and sinning by taking the sheep of your brother. Then the men disappeared. Nabi Dawud realized this was two angels who came before him, not two brothers, and they came to test his judge making abilities. They wanted to teach him a lesson on that he needs to here two sides before making a decission. Otherwise he could have actually sinned with two real people. He nevers sinned, when it says he went to sajda, and prayed for Allah's forgivness, he wants such a mistake not to ever happen, and that he be saved from such mistakes.

 

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