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Iamgr8

Do Shias Love Ali (Ra) More Than Muhammad (Sa)?

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There is a strong perception all over the world that Shia Muslim actually love Hazrat Ali (pbuh) (Shias call him Imam Ali) more than Prophet Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh). Why is there such perception? Shias also don't care about the other caliphs namely Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman. Also shias say bad things about Hazrat Aisha (pbuh). Rejects all hadiths narrated from her. Reject most of the hadiths narrated by Abu Hurairah. Everything of Shias seem like Hazrat Ali , Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Ali. Sunnis extremely respect Hazrat Ali and also love his sons Hassan  and Hussain but who are the rest of the imams. Why do Shias believe their imams are sinless? Nobody is without sin apart from prophets of Allah but prophets also did few mistakes which was later corrected by Allah but why do Shias think Imam Ali, Hassan, Hussain and their other imams didn't do even any mistake forget about doing sin? 

 

Due to these matters many sunni muslims think Shias love their imams esp Imam Ali (pbuh) more than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). For sunnis they love Prophet Muhammad the most then they love rest of the prophets after that they consider Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali are all equally respectful. Among woman they consider Maryam (pbuh) is the most respectful woman after her Fatima (pbuh) Aisha (pbuh) are equally respectful women. Among the other wives apart from Aisha, Khadija (pbuh) is another woman who is very dear to Sunni Muslims, on the other hand Shias don't respect Aisha at all.

 

Shias are a very small minority among muslims. Constitute only 10 to 15 percent of muslim ummah. The majority of muslims are all sunni Muslims. Why? There must be a valid reason for it.

 

 

 

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Considering that Shias only love Ali (AS) BECAUSE of the Prophet (PBUH) the obvious answer is no. The Prophet (PBUH) also loved Ali (AS) so if you think there's something wrong with it then you should tell him that too (astaghfrilillah).

And all hadiths from Aisha are rejected because she is a mawdu narrator based on the science of rijal, not because Shia don't like her. It is a fact that she would openly tell lies and fabrications. Abu Harrairah has hadiths about Prophets beating up angels. Many Sunnis also consider Abu Harairrah a mawdu narrator.

The reason Shias are less than Sunnis is because many people apostated after the death of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). The same happened with Prophet Musa (AS) with the golden calf, and with Prophet Isa (AS), etc.

And they believe the Imams are sinless because they never committed a sin. Verse 33:33 says confirms this and the Prophet (PBUH) confirmed that it is also talking about Ali (AS). Furthermore, can you actually prove they ever committed a sin?

P.S. Aisha is condemned by Allah in the Quran (66:3), yet Sunnis act like Shias not liking her is some kind of grave sin. It's also ironic how they don't care that their Caliph murdered the rest of Prophet's (PBUH) family, yet act outraged that people don't worship their idol Aisha.

Edited by Vector

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There is a strong perception all over the world that Shia Muslim actually love Hazrat Ali (pbuh) (Shias call him Imam Ali) more than Prophet Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh). Why is there such perception? Shias also don't care about the other caliphs namely Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman. Also shias say bad things about Hazrat Aisha (pbuh). Rejects all hadiths narrated from her. Reject most of the hadiths narrated by Abu Hurairah. Everything of Shias seem like Hazrat Ali , Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Ali. Sunnis extremely respect Hazrat Ali and also love his sons Hassan  and Hussain but who are the rest of the imams. Why do Shias believe their imams are sinless? Nobody is without sin apart from prophets of Allah but prophets also did few mistakes which was later corrected by Allah but why do Shias think Imam Ali, Hassan, Hussain and their other imams didn't do even any mistake forget about doing sin? 

 

Due to these matters many sunni muslims think Shias love their imams esp Imam Ali (pbuh) more than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). For sunnis they love Prophet Muhammad the most then they love rest of the prophets after that they consider Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali are all equally respectful. Among woman they consider Maryam (pbuh) is the most respectful woman after her Fatima (pbuh) Aisha (pbuh) are equally respectful women. Among the other wives apart from Aisha, Khadija (pbuh) is another woman who is very dear to Sunni Muslims, on the other hand Shias don't respect Aisha at all.

 

Shias are a very small minority among muslims. Constitute only 10 to 15 percent of muslim ummah. The majority of muslims are all sunni Muslims. Why? There must be a valid reason for it.

 

Simple answer to your question is that it shows your unawareness about the Quran, hadiths and history.

 

Shia do not love Imam Ali more than the prophet himself but the prophet has asked the ummah to love his ahl lbayt including Ali, Fatima, Hasan, Hussain and his 9 descendents as who are not separated from quran.

 

Read the Quran many verses are there showing disrespect of the majority and others stating that the persons (believers) who were saved by Allah swt along with the prophets were always small in number.

Edited by skamran110

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There is a strong perception all over the world that Shia Muslim actually love Hazrat Ali (pbuh) (Shias call him Imam Ali) more than Prophet Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh). Why is there such perception? Shias also don't care about the other caliphs namely Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman. Also shias say bad things about Hazrat Aisha (pbuh). Rejects all hadiths narrated from her. Reject most of the hadiths narrated by Abu Hurairah. Everything of Shias seem like Hazrat Ali , Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Ali. Sunnis extremely respect Hazrat Ali and also love his sons Hassan and Hussain but who are the rest of the imams. Why do Shias believe their imams are sinless? Nobody is without sin apart from prophets of Allah but prophets also did few mistakes which was later corrected by Allah but why do Shias think Imam Ali, Hassan, Hussain and their other imams didn't do even any mistake forget about doing sin?

Due to these matters many sunni muslims think Shias love their imams esp Imam Ali (pbuh) more than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). For sunnis they love Prophet Muhammad the most then they love rest of the prophets after that they consider Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali are all equally respectful. Among woman they consider Maryam (pbuh) is the most respectful woman after her Fatima (pbuh) Aisha (pbuh) are equally respectful women. Among the other wives apart from Aisha, Khadija (pbuh) is another woman who is very dear to Sunni Muslims, on the other hand Shias don't respect Aisha at all.

Shias are a very small minority among muslims. Constitute only 10 to 15 percent of muslim ummah. The majority of muslims are all sunni Muslims. Why? There must be a valid reason for it.

Shia don't love Ali more than Muhammad (pbuh).

Here Allah introduces Ahlulbayt (as) which does not include prophet's wives.

فَمَنْ حَاجَّكَ فِيهِ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ فَقُلْ تَعَالَوْا نَدْعُ أَبْنَاءَنَا وَأَبْنَاءَكُمْ وَنِسَاءَنَا وَنِسَاءَكُمْ وَأَنْفُسَنَا وَأَنْفُسَكُمْ ثُمَّ نَبْتَهِلْ فَنَجْعَلْ لَعْنَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَى الْكَاذِبِينَ {61}

[ 3:61] But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars.

Here Allah orders us to love Prophet's Ahlulbayt namely Ali and Fatima and their children till eternity.

ذَٰلِكَ الَّذِي يُبَشِّرُ اللَّهُ عِبَادَهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ ۗ قُلْ لَا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا إِلَّا الْمَوَدَّةَ فِي الْقُرْبَىٰ ۗ وَمَنْ يَقْتَرِفْ حَسَنَةً نَزِدْ لَهُ فِيهَا حُسْنًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ شَكُورٌ {23}

[ 42:23] That is of which Allah gives the good news to His servants, (to) those who believe and do good deeds. Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein; surely Allah is Forgiving, Grateful.

Here's what Aisha, Umer, Abubakr, Muawiah, and the rest did to Ahlulbayt (as)

1. Umer and Abubakr stole the khilafat from Imam Ali.

2. Umer and Abubakr tried burning the house of Ali, and in doing so killed Fatima Zahra (as).

3. Aisha waged war on imam Ali.

4. Muawiah waged war on Imam Hassan.

5. Yazid killed Imam Hussain.

Is there any other shameless nation out there besides our Sunni brothers who would LOVE these enemies of Pophet's Ahlulbayt with such fervor and still call themselves Muslims?

Lanant, Lanat, Lanat, on the enemies of Prophet and Prophet's Ahlulbayt whoever they may be starting from Iblees down to Ale Saud.

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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My intention is to paste the verses regarding the position of "majority" which Sunnis love to throw out. The interpretation of the verses is dependent on the readers own research. (I take no responsibility for it).

 

 

[ 6:116] If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of Allah. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.

[12:106] The majority of those who believe in Allah do not do so without committing idol worship

[16:82-85] If they still turn away, then your sole mission is the clear delivery (of the message). They recognize the favor of Allah ; then they deny it. And most of them are disbelievers. The day will come when we raise from every community a witness, then those who disbelieved will not be permitted (to speak), nor will they be excused. Once those who transgressed see the retribution, it will be too late; it will not be commuted for them, nor will they be respited.

[25:44] Or do you think that most of them do hear or understand? They are nothing but as cattle; nay, they are straying farther off from the path.

[3:110] You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah; and if the followers of the Book had believed it would have been better for them; of them (some) are believers and most of them are transgressors.

[10:36] And most of them do not follow (anything) but conjecture; surely conjecture will not avail aught against the truth; surely Allah is cognizant of what they do

[5:103] Allah has not ordained (the making of) a bahirah or a saibah or a wasilah or a hami but those who disbelieve fabricate a lie against Allah, and most of them do not understand.

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Shia don't love Ali more than Muhammad (pbuh).

Here Allah introduces Ahlulbayt (as) which does not include prophet's wives.

فَمَنْ حَاجَّكَ فِيهِ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ فَقُلْ تَعَالَوْا نَدْعُ أَبْنَاءَنَا وَأَبْنَاءَكُمْ وَنِسَاءَنَا وَنِسَاءَكُمْ وَأَنْفُسَنَا وَأَنْفُسَكُمْ ثُمَّ نَبْتَهِلْ فَنَجْعَلْ لَعْنَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَى الْكَاذِبِينَ {61}

[ 3:61] But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars.

Here Allah orders us to love Prophet's Ahlulbayt namely Ali and Fatima and their children till eternity.

ذَٰلِكَ الَّذِي يُبَشِّرُ اللَّهُ عِبَادَهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ ۗ قُلْ لَا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا إِلَّا الْمَوَدَّةَ فِي الْقُرْبَىٰ ۗ وَمَنْ يَقْتَرِفْ حَسَنَةً نَزِدْ لَهُ فِيهَا حُسْنًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ شَكُورٌ {23}

[ 42:23] That is of which Allah gives the good news to His servants, (to) those who believe and do good deeds. Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein; surely Allah is Forgiving, Grateful.

Here's what Aisha, Umer, Abubakr, Muawiah, and the rest did to Ahlulbayt (as)

1. Umer and Abubakr stole the khilafat from Imam Ali.

2. Umer and Abubakr tried burning the house of Ali, and in doing so killed Fatima Zahra (as).

3. Aisha waged war on imam Ali.

4. Muawiah waged war on Imam Hassan.

5. Yazid killed Imam Hussain.

Is there any other shameless nation out there besides our Sunni brothers who would LOVE these enemies of Pophet's Ahlulbayt with such fervor and still call themselves Muslims?

Lanant, Lanat, Lanat, on the enemies of Prophet and Prophet's Ahlulbayt whoever they may be starting from Iblees down to Ale Saud.

 

 

There is nothing written in that verse regarding the ummul mu'minin are not part of the house of prophet. They are mother of the believers and they are members of Ahlul Bayt.

 

Yes, we must love Fatima, Ali, Hassan and Hussain. They were dear to the Prophet (pbuh) but it doesn't mean you have to elevate Ali to an extreme level to make him comparable with the Prophet.

 

Hazrat Ali is as respectful as the other 3 caliphs. Abu Bakr,Umar and Uthman. They were all dear to the Prophet. We have to love all of them. Ali wanted to marry a woman who was daugther of the enemy of the prophet. When Fatima informed her father about her displeasement over her husband Ali going to marry the daughter of her father's enemy the prophet said, whoever hurts Fatima hurts me. So you want to say Ali had not done any mistake by unintentionaly hurting the Prophet? Yes, he did and later he realised and didn't commit it again. Abu Bakr also committed mistake by hurting Fatima when he said he will not give the land of fadak but it was due to the prophet saying that land will be given to alms. Abu Bakr could have dealt the matter more carefully but later he went to Fatima and plead her to forgive him and not to be angry with him. Abu Bakr was honest and his intention was not to hurt Fatima thats why as a honest person he went to Fatima to request her to forgive him. Fatima did forgive him and the matter was solved. If Ali did mistake by wanting to marry the daugther of the prophet's enemy then Abu Bakr also did mistake by making Fatima angry but both of these matters were solved. Only friends sometime have tension but when matters are solved they become even more close friends. Abu Bakr and Ali were very dear friends with each other.

 

 

Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman didn't stole the Khalifat from Ali. If they had bad relation with Ali than Ali would not have named his sons Umar and Uthman. They all were very dear friends.

 

 Abu Bakr and Umar didn't kill Fatima. Astagfirullah. Where have you got this from?

 

 

We sunnis don't love the enemies of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

 

Aisha (pbuh) was not enemy of the prophet. She was the most beloved wife of the prophet. Abu Bakr was not the enemy of the prophet. He was very dear friend and father in law of the Prophet. Umar and Uthman were also not enemies of the prophet. They were his best companions / friends. If Ali was dear to the prophet so was Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman.

 

May Allah give all companions of the prophet incuding Abu Bakr,Umar,Uthman and Ali the highest level of heaven - Jannatul Firdaus. May Allah also give Jannatul Firdaus to Aisha and Fatima.

Edited by Iamgr8

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There is a difference between importance and love.

 

If it's based on love, then the obvious answer is Imam Ali. Just goto any Shia lecture at your local center/mosque or on Youtube, and just count the number of times they mention Imam Ali compared to the Prophet. Majority of Shia lectures revolve around Imam Ali and Imam Hussain. 

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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There is a difference between importance and love.

 

If it's based on love, then the obvious answer is Imam Ali. Just goto any Shia lecture at your local center/mosque or on Youtube, and just count the number of times they mention Imam Ali compared to the Prophet. Majority of Shia lectures revolve around Imam Ali and Imam Hussain. 

Edited by Iamgr8

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My intention is to paste the verses regarding the position of "majority" which Sunnis love to throw out. The interpretation of the verses is dependent on the readers own research. (I take no responsibility for it).

 

 

[ 6:116] If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of Allah. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.

[12:106] The majority of those who believe in Allah do not do so without committing idol worship

[16:82-85] If they still turn away, then your sole mission is the clear delivery (of the message). They recognize the favor of Allah ; then they deny it. And most of them are disbelievers. The day will come when we raise from every community a witness, then those who disbelieved will not be permitted (to speak), nor will they be excused. Once those who transgressed see the retribution, it will be too late; it will not be commuted for them, nor will they be respited.

[25:44] Or do you think that most of them do hear or understand? They are nothing but as cattle; nay, they are straying farther off from the path.

[3:110] You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah; and if the followers of the Book had believed it would have been better for them; of them (some) are believers and most of them are transgressors.

[10:36] And most of them do not follow (anything) but conjecture; surely conjecture will not avail aught against the truth; surely Allah is cognizant of what they do

[5:103] Allah has not ordained (the making of) a bahirah or a saibah or a wasilah or a hami but those who disbelieve fabricate a lie against Allah, and most of them do not understand.

 

The Quran clearly denies to follow the path of majority, but only minful can understand it.

Edited by skamran110

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Yeah , Thats true. In Shia lectures they mention Imam Ali's name so many times that sometime I wonder if they consider Ali as another prophet in their heart? (Nauzubillah). I know they don't call him prophet. He is their first Imam but why do they have to mention Imam Ali's name too many times to make people think whether they love Ali more than the Prophet? They mention the Prophet's name in lectures very few times compared to the number of times they mention Imam Ali. It seems like Imam Ali and his two sons Hassan and Hussain are everything to them. It seems that Imam Ali (pbuh) even more respectful than or atleast equal to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for them. This is not good. Shias are Sunnis brothers but if Shias think Imam Ali (pbuh) deserves same respect as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then they are actually placing Ali in same league with the holy Prophet. (Nauzubillah). May Allah guide them.

It appears you don't read any of the posts above.

Prophet's favorite wife was not Aisha, she was a trouble maker wife for whom Allah sent Aya Ghazab to denounce her.

Prophet's favorite is Hazrat Khadijah (as).

Notice how the top four women of the world are:

Fatima wife of Ali (as)

Khadijah wife of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Maryam mother of Jesus (as)

Asia wife of Firaoun

How come Sunnis make Aisha one of the best women of world. THINK THINK THINK

Also Fatima Zahra (as) passed away four months after the death of Prophet, where is her grave? Why the two usurpers of khilafat namely Abu Bakr and Umer buried next to prophet, which is not a honor by the way. It was not the prophet who asked these two to be buried next to himself, neither they themselves buried their own bodies, it was the other Muslims who buried them next to the prophet.

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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The sunni are proud of their majority, but the verses of Quran mention that Believers Are Small / Few In Numbers clearly eradicating their false assumption:

 

 [11:40]  [so it was], until when Our command came and the oven overflowed, We said, "Load upon the ship of each [creature] two mates and your family, except those about whom the word has preceded, and [include] whoever has believed." But none had believed with him, except a few.

 

[2:83]  And [recall] when We took the covenant from the Children of Israel, [enjoining upon them], "Do not worship except Allah ; and to parents do good and to relatives, orphans, and the needy. And speak to people good [words] and establish prayer and give zakah." Then you turned away, except a few of you, and you were refusing.

 

[2:246]  Have you not considered the assembly of the Children of Israel after [the time of] Moses when they said to a prophet of theirs, "Send to us a king, and we will fight in the way of Allah "? He said, "Would you perhaps refrain from fighting if fighting was prescribed for you?" They said, "And why should we not fight in the cause of Allah when we have been driven out from our homes and from our children?" But when fighting was prescribed for them, they turned away, except for a few of them. And Allah is knowing of the wrongdoers.

 

[2:249]  And when Saul went forth with the soldiers, he said, "Indeed, Allah will be testing you with a river. So whoever drinks from it is not of me, and whoever does not taste it is indeed of me, excepting one who takes [from it] in the hollow of his hand." But they drank from it, except a [very] few of them. Then when he had crossed it along with those who believed with him, they said, "There is no power for us today against Goliath and his soldiers." But those who were certain that they would meet Allah said, "How many a small company has overcome a large company by permission of Allah . And Allah is with the patient.

 

[4:46]  Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper] usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion. And if they had said [instead], "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us [to understand]," it would have been better for them and more suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.

 

[4:155] And [We cursed them] for their breaking of the covenant and their disbelief in the signs of Allah and their killing of the prophets without right and their saying, "Our hearts are wrapped". Rather, Allah has sealed them because of their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.

 

[11:116] So why were there not among the generations before you those of enduring discrimination forbidding corruption on earth - except a few of those We saved from among them? But those who wronged pursued what luxury they were given therein, and they were criminals.

Edited by skamran110

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There is a strong perception all over the world that Shia Muslim actually love Hazrat Ali (pbuh) (Shias call him Imam Ali) more than Prophet Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh). Why is there such perception? Shias also don't care about the other caliphs namely Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman. Also shias say bad things about Hazrat Aisha (pbuh). Rejects all hadiths narrated from her. Reject most of the hadiths narrated by Abu Hurairah. Everything of Shias seem like Hazrat Ali , Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Ali. Sunnis extremely respect Hazrat Ali and also love his sons Hassan  and Hussain but who are the rest of the imams. Why do Shias believe their imams are sinless? Nobody is without sin apart from prophets of Allah but prophets also did few mistakes which was later corrected by Allah but why do Shias think Imam Ali, Hassan, Hussain and their other imams didn't do even any mistake forget about doing sin? 

 

Due to these matters many sunni muslims think Shias love their imams esp Imam Ali (pbuh) more than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). For sunnis they love Prophet Muhammad the most then they love rest of the prophets after that they consider Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali are all equally respectful. Among woman they consider Maryam (pbuh) is the most respectful woman after her Fatima (pbuh) Aisha (pbuh) are equally respectful women. Among the other wives apart from Aisha, Khadija (pbuh) is another woman who is very dear to Sunni Muslims, on the other hand Shias don't respect Aisha at all.

 

Shias are a very small minority among muslims. Constitute only 10 to 15 percent of muslim ummah. The majority of muslims are all sunni Muslims. Why? There must be a valid reason for it.

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There is a difference between importance and love.

 

If it's based on love, then the obvious answer is Imam Ali. Just goto any Shia lecture at your local center/mosque or on Youtube, and just count the number of times they mention Imam Ali compared to the Prophet. Majority of Shia lectures revolve around Imam Ali and Imam Hussain. 

Edited by akamp

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Yeah , Thats true. In Shia lectures they mention Imam Ali's name so many times that sometime I wonder if they consider Ali as another prophet in their heart? (Nauzubillah). I know they don't call him prophet. He is their first Imam but why do they have to mention Imam Ali's name too many times to make people think whether they love Ali more than the Prophet? They mention the Prophet's name in lectures very few times compared to the number of times they mention Imam Ali. It seems like Imam Ali and his two sons Hassan and Hussain are everything to them. It seems that Imam Ali (pbuh) even more respectful than or atleast equal to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for them. This is not good. Shias are Sunnis brothers but if Shias think Imam Ali (pbuh) deserves same respect as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then they are actually placing Ali in same league with the holy Prophet. (Nauzubillah). May Allah guide them.

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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@ PureEthics

 

Let me give you another example, other prophets. Can you call a favorite between Adam A.S and Jesus A.S? Of course not! Its absurd!

 

 

So you are saying choosing a favorite between Imam Ali and Prophet Muhammad is like choosing favorite between Prophet Adam and Prophet Jesus? So Imam Ali is like a prophet for Shias. (Nauzubillah). This is kuffar. Please shia brothers don't do it.

 

 

Imam Ali is a caliph, like other 3 caliphs his status is way below than the prophets of Allah. Don't say choosing between him and the Prophet Muhammad is like choosing between mother and father. This is Kuffar since you are indirectly elevating Ali to the positon of a Prophet.

 

 

We shias believe in the infallibility of the imams and prophets, without a doubt. No prophet or imam, or the ahlulbayt, made any mistakes or sins.

 

 

If you say no Prophet did any mistake then its arguable but how can you say Imams didn't do any mistake? By making such comment you are actually positioning them in prophet's league if you believe Prophets also did no mistake.

 

You are just one step away from openly declaring Imam Ali as the prophet of Allah. (Nauzubillah)

Edited by Iamgr8

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@ PureEthics

 

So you are saying choosing a favorite between Imam Ali and Prophet Muhammad is like choosing favorite between Prophet Adam and Prophet Jesus? So Imam Ali is like a prophet for Shias. (Nauzubillah). This is kuffar. Please shia brothers don't do it.

 

 

 

Imam Ali is a caliph, like other 3 caliphs his status is way below than the prophets of Allah. Don't say choosing between him and the Prophet Muhammad is like choosing between mother and father. This is Kuffar since you are indirectly elevating Ali to the positon of a Prophet.

 

 

 

If you say no Prophet did any mistake then its arguable but how can you say Imams didn't do any mistake? By making such comment you are actually positioning them in prophet's league if you believe Prophets also did no mistake.

 

You are just one step away from openly declaring Imam Ali as the prophet of Allah. (Nauzubillah)

(bismillah)

 

What is all this misinterpretation. Why are you arguing in a way where your shoving your views within my context? I dont believe what you believe, so when you arguing, be neutral or argue from my point of view.

 

You state, "So you are saying choosing a favorite between Imam Ali and Prophet Muhammad is like choosing favorite between Prophet Adam and Prophet Jesus? So Imam Ali is like a prophet for Shias. (Nauzubillah). This is kuffar. Please shia brothers don't do it." Where do you even get the notion that choosing which two prophets are loved more vs comparing the same concept with an imam and prophet, makes the imam a prophet? It doesnt make any sense what so ever. Also I am not talking about favorites, I am talking about loving both equally, or as you try to and subject it to one or the other which is a fallacy in itself. Where the hell do we state Imam Ali is a prophet?

 

 

Next you state, "Imam Ali is a caliph, like other 3 caliphs his status is way below than the prophets of Allah. Don't say choosing between him and the Prophet Muhammad is like choosing between mother and father. This is Kuffar since you are indirectly elevating Ali to the positon of a Prophet." HELLO???!! We believe Imam Ali A.S is chosen by Allah. Stop shoving your religion down my throat. This is a baseless point in the argument :squeez:

 

 

Finally, you state, "If you say no Prophet did any mistake then its arguable but how can you say Imams didn't do any mistake? By making such comment you are actually positioning them in prophet's league if you believe Prophets also did no mistake." Because we believe, and hence know, they didnt make any mistakes. Listen, becoming infallible doesnt make you a prophet. So when someone is perfect at doing something, they are a prophet?  So a person that is perfect at drawing circles (he doesnt make mistakes when drawing them), he is a prophet? What logic is this?

 

Listen, please come up with better arguments because you dont even understand our views even .01% correctly. Also, it would be nice to have some rational thinking as well.

 

(wasalam)

Edited by PureEthics

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Basically, Shias speak of these personalities (Ali/Hussain) a lot more because they are the identification of Shiasm. Imam Ali being the most vital and first personality where the origins of Shiasm begins (after the Prophet). You will notice the mention of later Imams is significantly alot less compared to Imam Ali and Imam Hussain. Many do place Imam Ali and the Prophet in the same league. Just look at pureethic's post, he is giving you a mom/dad example equating Prophet/Imam Ali in the same league, then uses and example of 2 Prophets - as if Prophet Muhammed and Imam Ali are equatable. But fortunately, there are alot of smart Shias, who will never put Imam Ali in the same level as the Prophet. Also, understand that another influence has to do with trying to disassociate from Sunnis, hence speak more solely of Shia Imams, also culture, tradition, etc., play a part. I would advice you to check what Marja's say on this matter, they will clearly state Prophet is superior. 

 

As for regarding love, it's understandable that Sunnis have this perception, because they go by what they hear, and they hear Imam Ali/Hussain alot more than the Prophet. 

 

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My intention is to paste the verses regarding the position of "majority" which Sunnis love to throw out. The interpretation of the verses is dependent on the readers own research. (I take no responsibility for it).

 

 

[ 6:116] If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of Allah. They follow only conjecture; they only guess.

[12:106] The majority of those who believe in Allah do not do so without committing idol worship

[16:82-85] If they still turn away, then your sole mission is the clear delivery (of the message). They recognize the favor of Allah ; then they deny it. And most of them are disbelievers. The day will come when we raise from every community a witness, then those who disbelieved will not be permitted (to speak), nor will they be excused. Once those who transgressed see the retribution, it will be too late; it will not be commuted for them, nor will they be respited.

[25:44] Or do you think that most of them do hear or understand? They are nothing but as cattle; nay, they are straying farther off from the path.

[3:110] You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah; and if the followers of the Book had believed it would have been better for them; of them (some) are believers and most of them are transgressors.

[10:36] And most of them do not follow (anything) but conjecture; surely conjecture will not avail aught against the truth; surely Allah is cognizant of what they do

[5:103] Allah has not ordained (the making of) a bahirah or a saibah or a wasilah or a hami but those who disbelieve fabricate a lie against Allah, and most of them do not understand.

 

 

The sunni are proud of their majority, but the verses of Quran mention that Believers Are Small / Few In Numbers clearly eradicating their false assumption:

 

 [11:40]  [so it was], until when Our command came and the oven overflowed, We said, "Load upon the ship of each [creature] two mates and your family, except those about whom the word has preceded, and [include] whoever has believed." But none had believed with him, except a few.

 

[2:83]  And [recall] when We took the covenant from the Children of Israel, [enjoining upon them], "Do not worship except Allah ; and to parents do good and to relatives, orphans, and the needy. And speak to people good [words] and establish prayer and give zakah." Then you turned away, except a few of you, and you were refusing.

 

[2:246]  Have you not considered the assembly of the Children of Israel after [the time of] Moses when they said to a prophet of theirs, "Send to us a king, and we will fight in the way of Allah "? He said, "Would you perhaps refrain from fighting if fighting was prescribed for you?" They said, "And why should we not fight in the cause of Allah when we have been driven out from our homes and from our children?" But when fighting was prescribed for them, they turned away, except for a few of them. And Allah is knowing of the wrongdoers.

 

[2:249]  And when Saul went forth with the soldiers, he said, "Indeed, Allah will be testing you with a river. So whoever drinks from it is not of me, and whoever does not taste it is indeed of me, excepting one who takes [from it] in the hollow of his hand." But they drank from it, except a [very] few of them. Then when he had crossed it along with those who believed with him, they said, "There is no power for us today against Goliath and his soldiers." But those who were certain that they would meet Allah said, "How many a small company has overcome a large company by permission of Allah . And Allah is with the patient.

 

[4:46]  Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper] usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion. And if they had said [instead], "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us [to understand]," it would have been better for them and more suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.

 

[4:155] And [We cursed them] for their breaking of the covenant and their disbelief in the signs of Allah and their killing of the prophets without right and their saying, "Our hearts are wrapped". Rather, Allah has sealed them because of their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.

 

[11:116] So why were there not among the generations before you those of enduring discrimination forbidding corruption on earth - except a few of those We saved from among them? But those who wronged pursued what luxury they were given therein, and they were criminals.

 

The sunni are speechless on the Quran verdict that majority should not be followed. Also, the believers are small in numbers instead of the majority. The Quran always reveals the truth.

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from bukhari:

 

_____________

 

 

5.61: 

Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama: 

Allah's Apostle said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry." 

5.546: 

Narrated `Aisha: 

Abu Bakr refused to give anything of that to Fatima. So she became angry with Abu Bakr and kept 

away from him, and did not task to him till she died. 

 

 

.. that above one already proves it all. it means that abu bakr omar and co. didn't care much about aali muhamad, and their prayers therefore become void.

______________

 

8.817: 

Narrated Ibn `Abbas: 

 the pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr was nothing but a prompt sudden action which got established afterwards.' `Umar became angry and then said,

'Allah willing, I will stand before the people tonight and warn them against those people who want to deprive the others of their rights (the question of rulership). 

 

who is being threatened in anger here? who is "them"?

 

.. and no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were informed that the Ansar disagreed with us and gathered in the shed of Bani Sa'da. 'Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us, while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr

1 - Ansar

2 - Imam Ali and Sayida Fatimah

3 - others as well

 

________________

 

but before you answer this post, remember that already the fact that Sayida Fatima is terminally upset is enough to prove how evil they are. and if you think it's ok to upset her and to build a "caliphate" representing the prophet, while being against the prophet's family, then go ahead if you want.

 

at least now, in your case, nobody can say you haven't been explained the undeniable truth of the matter.

 

perhaps everybody can think about this when they say Alahuma sali ala muhamad wa'alih muhamad, next time they pray.

 

_________________

 

now let us talk about the Ansars (inhabitants of Medinah Menawara), in relation to Bukhari:

 

isn't this Ironic:

 

 

5.137: 

Narrated Anas bin Malik: 

The Prophet said to the Ansar, "After me you will see others given preference to you; so be patient till you meet me, and your promised place (of meeting) will be the Tank (i.e. Lake of Kauthar). 

 

5.128: 

Narrated Anas bin Malik: 

The Prophet said, "The sign of Belief is to love the Ansar, and the sign of hypocrisy is to hate the 

Ansar." 

 

so again:

 

 

8.817: 

Narrated Ibn `Abbas: 

And no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were informed that the Ansar disagreed with us and gathered in the shed of Bani Sa`da. `Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us

 

_______________

 

those are just small extra evidence; but as i said many times; it's more than enough with this fact:

 

5.61: 

Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama: 

Allah's Apostle said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry." 

 

&

 

5.546: 

 

Narrated `Aisha: 

Abu Bakr refused to give anything of that to Fatima. So she became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did not task to him till she died. 

 

_______________________

 

it's up to each person to see the truth of this obvious matter, and get resurrected with the people they defend and believe in.

Edited by peace seeker

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The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "He who wants to see Noah (AS) in his determination, Adam (AS) in his knowledge, Abraham (AS) in his clemency, Moses (AS) in his intelligence and Jesus (AS) in his religious devotion should look at Ali Ibn Abi Talib (AS)."

  • Sahih al-Bayhaqi

Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, as quoted in

Sharh Ibn Abil Hadid, v2, p449

Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhruddin al-Razi, under the commentary of the Verse of Imprecation (Mubahilah), v2 p288. He wrote this tradition has been accepted as all genuine.

Ibn Batah has recorded it as a tradition related by Ibn Abbas as is stated in the book "Fat'h al-Mulk al-Ali bi Sihah Hadith-e-Bab-e-Madinat al-Ilm", p34, by Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn Siddeeq al-Hasani al-Maghribi.

Among those who have admitted that Imam Ali (AS) is the store house of the secrets of all the Prophets is the Chief of Gnostics, Muhyiddin al-Arabi, from whom al-Arif al-Sha'rani has copied it in his al-Yawaqeet wa al-Jawahir (p172, topic 32).

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I know both are beloved to all Muslims including sunnis and shias but just tell me whom do you shias respect and love more? Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or Imam Ali (pbuh)? Prophets or Imams? Just want straight forward honest answer.

Edited by Iamgr8

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prophets are imams as well 

 

And when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a leader (Imam) for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers." 2:124


they all have the same duty of leading mankind towards Allah

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I know both are beloved to all Muslims including sunnis and shias but just tell me whom do you shias respect and love more? Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or Imam Ali (pbuh)? Prophets or Imams? Just want straight forward honest answer.

 

Do you know arabic? Do you know what ''Imam'' means? Some of our prophets (as) were Imams and some weren't. So your question doesn't make sense.

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there is no way of generalizing, but we respect and love all of them. it is impossible to say who is more or less. love and respect is not measurable.

 

love or respect a father or son more? strange question


5.61: 

Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama: 

Allah's Apostle said, "Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry." 

 

we can logically deduct that respecting and loving children is loving and respecting the father

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there is no way of generalizing, but we respect and love all of them. it is impossible to say who is more or less. love and respect is not measurable.

 

love or respect a father or son more? strange question

Edited by Iamgr8

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You know it very well what I meant. I am talking about shias 12 imams. Do you respect and love Prophet Muhammad more than Imam Ali or you respect Ali more? Why is it difficult for you guys to answer such simple question?

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Just say who is more respectful and beloved to you guys? This is not strange question. If you ask any sunni they would say Prophet Muhammad is most beloved without having any dilemma but why do you guys have problem saying Prophet Muhammad is most beloved to you? If you ask a Christian who is more beloved to him Jesus or Paul? He would say Jesus if he is devoted christian but being Muslims you guys get in dilemma to say who is most beloved to you between holy Prophet Muhammad and Caliph Ali. Its sad.

Edited by peace seeker

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 "you guys" isn't a very accurate question, as you will find different people who call themselves shia.

 

personally i love each imam for their own accomplishments and in their own rights.

 

it's not about who is more or less.

 

just like most people will say they love prophet mohamed more than any other prophet, when Allah tells us not to differentiate in the quran.

 

because of my love of Allah i love all prophets, and all their righteous descendants, and true followers.

 

in the end it's love of God that matters, and love in God

and i doubt about many sunis love of the prophet, when i see that they don't care much about his family. especially they don't care about upsetting them obviously.

 

also many shias i doubt about their love of the prophet and imams, because they don't care about the way those people, and their akhlaq / manners, as well as rules.

Edited by Iamgr8

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