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Problems With The Salaat Time

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Salaam alaykum Brothers

 

I must say first im a new shia imami, im becoming from maliki madhab and i'am in the middle of the transition, and i have some probems to understend the salaat time and the broking time of the fast in this Holy Ramadhan that will start the 9 of july ( as i  get)

 

the first i learn reading the pays of the zuhur and asr mus be praying together, and the magrib and isha too.

But i didnt get exacly how is is, im sure is more simple than i think

this is the time of the salat for the Tuesday

 

Imsaak 3:35
Fajr: 3:52

Sunrise: 5:39

Dhuhur:13:09

ASR: 17:09

Sunset: 20:39

Magrib: 20:59

Isha: 22:17

 

in witch excltly time i must perfom the dhuhur- asr and in witch time the magrib-isha according with that time?

and other acording to that time at witch time i must brock the fasting

I must do this asks for here beacause i downt know any follower of Ahlul bayt (AS) in Turkey that knows english .

Wa salaam and thanks for the help

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Salam, 

 

According to Jafari Fiqh, it is not wajib to pray dhuhr and asr together or magrib and isha together. 

You can pray them seperately and that is perfectly fine. 

They are seperate prayers. 

At the same time, we do not believe that it is wajib to pray them seperately as their are only 3 times for prayer as mentioned in the Holy Quran 

 

If dhuhr is at 13:09 (according to your schedule posted above) then you would pray dhuhr as close to 13:09 as possible THEN after you fininsh dhuhr, you can pray Asr either immediately after you finish dhuhr or you could wait 10 or 15 minutes or an hour or so, depending on your commitments for that time. You must pray Asr before Maghrib time. 

 

Same for Maghrib and Isha. You pray Maghrib at 20:59 (again according to your schedule above) then you can pray Isha either right after or any time before midnight. Again depending on your commitments and sleep schedule. 

 

You can break the fast at the time of Maghrib, but Maghrib for Jaafari fiqh is slightly different. Maghrib is not exactly at sunset but the time for Maghrib is when the redness disappears from the Eastern Horizon. This happens approximately 17 minutes after sunset. That is why on some prayer schedules, time for Maghrib is later than the time for sunset.

 

Each Salat(prayer) must be preceeded by correct Niyyat(intention) in order to be correct. So, for example, when you pray dhuhr, your niyyat would be , I am praying Dhur, 4 rakats, wajib, qurbatin inAllahi Ta3ala

(seeking nearness to Allah(s.w.a). When you pray Asr, I am praying Asr, 4 rakats, wajib, qurbatin inAllahi Ta3ala, etc. 

 

Also, we don't believe it is wajib to break your fast immediately at time of maghrib or sunset. It is left up to the person when they want to break the fast. 

 

 

Salam. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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bother i continue read it other article and make me a mix in the head.

 

 

In the Zhuhur time 13:09 according to tha time i pray  DHUHUR with all the rules of a normal pray and after i finish, i can continue with the ASR and alll the rules of noral asr.

Same for the MAGRIB and ISHA. In MAgrib time (20:59 hs) i pray the magrib and when i finish the 3 rak'as i can star the ısha i( i dont need to wait the 22:17) is correct like this?

And after pray the magrib and the isha . can broke the fasting. is this correct too?

 

the times i took from praytme.info and with leva institute i calculation according to my city (Istambul),

Thanks for the patience.

 

wa salaam

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Just to add into it, the time for Maghrib is as brother said, when redness disappears from the eastern skies, (notice not from the western skies), so there could be slight light into the western skies but as long as the redness has 'passed overhead' then you can pray Maghrib.

Now as far as when the fasting item ends, the Iftar time, that's when the LAYL - the night sets in, and all that is according to Quran.

Was Salam.

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bother i continue read it other article and make me a mix in the head.

 

 

In the Zhuhur time 13:09 according to tha time i pray  DHUHUR with all the rules of a normal pray and after i finish, i can continue with the ASR and alll the rules of noral asr.

Same for the MAGRIB and ISHA. In MAgrib time (20:59 hs) i pray the magrib and when i finish the 3 rak'as i can star the ısha i( i dont need to wait the 22:17) is correct like this?

And after pray the magrib and the isha . can broke the fasting. is this correct too?

 

the times i took from praytme.info and with leva institute i calculation according to my city (Istambul),

Thanks for the patience.

 

wa salaam

Yes, above is correct. 

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Dhuhur:13:09

ASR: 17:09

 

Magrib: 20:59

Isha: 22:17

 

It just does not make any sense. These are two completely different, separate periods of the days. To pray them together is like prayer Fajr and Dhuhr together.

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Easy. The allowed, period for zhuhr is anywhere from mid day until the point before sunset when the time remains only to pray zhuhr and asr (roughly 10 minutes before sunset)

The allowed period for asr is within the same time range.

You can pray the two prayers anywhere between midday and sunset, so long as zhuhr is before asr, and it is halal. 

The ideal times however are as written on these schedules.

 

Similar for maghrib and isha. Their allowed times are anywhere between sunset and midnight. But there are ideal times for both.

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But then you're simply treating mid day, afternoon and sunset, night equally in a way.

If you pray maghrib at such a time when it conveniently fades in with isha, then wouldn't you be praying maghrib later than due?

I've never found a Shia source permitting combined prayers, only in Sunni sources. There's no evidence that any of the Imams combined their prayers.

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What to say? That's how the religion treats it.

 

Here is a page with some narrations. http://www.*******.org/hadiths/salat/timings

 

Here's one about maghrib and isha timings in particular.


 

[4860] 4 ـ محمّد بن الحسن بإسناده عن سعد بن عبدالله ، عن أحمد بن محمّد بن عيسى وموسى بن جعفر ، عن أبي جعفر ، عن أبي طالب عبدالله بن الصلت ، عن الحسن بن علي بن فضّال ، عن داود بن أبي يزيد وهو داود بن فرقد ، عن بعض أصحابنا، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : إذا غابت الشمس فقد دخل وقت المغرب حتّى يمضي مقدار ما يصلّي المصلّي ثلاث ركعات ، فإذا مضى ذلك فقد دخل وقت المغرب والعشاء الآخرة حتّى يبقى من انتصاف الليل مقدار ما يصلّي المصلّي أربع ركعات ،وإذا بقي مقدار ذلك فقد خرج وقت المغرب وبقي وقت العشاء الآخرة إلى انتصاف الليل 

 

4 – Muhammad b. al-Hasan by his isnad from Sa`d b. `Abdullah from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa and Musa b. Ja`far from Abu Ja`far from Abu Talib `Abdullah b. as-Salt from al-Hasan b. `Ali b. Faddal from Dawud b. Abi Yazid – and he is Dawud b. Farqad – from one of our companions from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام.  He said: When the sun has set then the time of maghrib has entered until there has passed the amount of what the praying person can pray of three rak`at.  So when that has passed, then the time of maghrib and the final `isha have entered until there remains from the halving of the night the amount of what the praying person can pray of four rak`at.  And when there remains the amount of that, then the time of maghrib has exited and the time of the final `isha remains until the halving of the night.

 

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107:4-5 Woe to the worshippers who are unmindful of their prayer.

Saad bin Abi Waqqas said: "I asked Allah's Messenger (SAW) about the meaning of 'unmindful,' and he replied: 'It is delaying it (the prayer) up to the end of its prescribed time.'" (Bazar)

I've read similar narrations in Shia collections in the past, but don't have at hand. How do you reconcile? Leaving prayer till the end of its prescribed time is tantamount to being "unmindful of prayer." This is serious business, here.

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I'm not sure what you think is contradictory or in need of reconciliation. There is a best starting time, and an allowed range of times afterwards. Earlier is better. That's all there is to it. There's nothing here encouraging leaving anything to the end of the time.

 

By the way, returning to something you said above:

If you pray maghrib at such a time when it conveniently fades in with isha, then wouldn't you be praying maghrib later than due?

 

 

You're getting it basically backwards from how, in practice, this is usually done. The usual approach when these are "combined" is to do maghrib as soon as it comes in, and then isha more or less immediately afterwards.

Edited by kadhim

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I'm not sure what you think is contradictory or in need of

You're getting it basically backwards from how, in practice, this is usually done. The usual approach when these are "combined" is to do maghrib as soon as it comes in, and then isha more or less immediately afterwards.

To combine implies performing the sunset prayer at the maximally delayed period to accommodate the night prayer. How is this not a problem? If this isn't praying late, what is?

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To combine implies performing the sunset prayer at the maximally delayed period to accommodate the night prayer.

 

No. It doesn't. You're getting backwards as to how most people do it. It generally refers to doing the 2nd prayer at the earliest possible time, right after the 1st, with the 1st performed more or less at its earliest prime time.

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No. It doesn't. You're getting backwards as to how most people do it. It generally refers to doing the 2nd prayer at the earliest possible time, right after the 1st, with the 1st performed more or less at its earliest prime time.

I see. I stand corrected.

I guess my issue is that if you're allowed to compartmentalise prayer into three periods of the day, why not just have three prayers instead of five? I don't see why Allah being all merciful would chastise a servant for curtailing the amount by a fraction. It's not like He needs to be worshipped anyway, right? He doesn't depend on it for survival. It's for us to reap the benefits solely.

I don't have much trust in the wisdom of the Lord, do I? Heck, I'm confused as to why I'm here in the first place.

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