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kadhim

Why Not Taqleed?

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Bro macisaac,

I'd guess that an 'Usulli would answer that the hadith you presented is about the forbiddance of ijtihad when the Aimmah (as) were present while at the time of ghaybah like now, it's a completely different situation so it's outside the scope of that hadith.

Dear all,

I think that finding the most learned is impossible and I don't agree with the notion that your deeds will void if you don't do taqlid or in the day of Qiyamah, your marja' will carry the burden of the sins of the acts that you did due to your taqlid.

For some who are not comfortable enough to read the primary sources by themselves for whatever reason (some contradiction in the ahadith could be one of it, even one of our 4 books was specifically dealing with it), following a marja' may be an interesting option. But, using the common analogy used, it's more like a finding a doctor and consulting with them if you have health concerns. I'm in the position that you can switch doctors, you can opt to obey them or figure it out for yourself, you can gain second opinion from another doctor, you can even look at the medical books and if you find there something different than what your doctor said, you can choose to disregard your doctor and follow that books instead. Although, since the doctors are specialized in this field unlike you, then the probability of them getting it right should be greater than yours.

But, the analogy stops only there and it become erroneous if we'd like to force it further. The nature of medical science and fiqh are different. Medical science (and also other science) is empirical so it would be easy to see the impact of a new approach or improvement so it keeps getting better and better everyday because the impact is observable.

That's not so in fiqh. There's no tangible proof that a new approach or a new metholodogy is better than what the early 'ulama did. In fact, I'd argue that in some areas such as ritual 'ibadah (e.g. salat), the more appropriate analogy is the game of Chinese whispers. The closer you get to the source, the more accurate and the less distortion you get. So sticking to the early 'ulama would yield better result rather than innovating something new.

Moreover, one of the area where the analogy of doctors will fail in the finding of the most knowledgeable. Again, doctor's work is more tangible so we will be easier to sort out thr best one among a group of doctors though it doesn't mean that he's the the best in the world. Not so in fiqh which is more intangible by nature.

Edited by rotten_coconut

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I do not agree with the analogy of referring to a marja is like referring to a doctor.

 

firstly, doctors agree on the simple stuff. marjas cannot even agree when eid is.

secondly, doctors are monitored and audited and answerable to government bodies keeping them in line. marjas are not.

thirdly, doctors can go to jail if their mistakes cost someone an injury or loss or death. marjas can not.

fourthly, a doctor in qum cannot treat his patient in london over email when the doctor doesnt speak english n the patient doesnt speak farsi.

fifthly, it is easy to book an appointment with a doctor for face to face talks. it is not easy to book one to one sessions with marja

sixthly, doctors live in the same world as the rest of us so have similar struggles with the people they treat. marjas do not.

seventh, different doctors specialise in different areas, you do not use the same doctor to fix a filling in your teeth as you do have perform heart surgery. marjas are meant to be experts in all matters of fiqh

 

if you guys want to use an analogy, use the analogy of referring to a marja as a university student referring to his mentor tutor as you work on a project paper. the mentor is much more knowledgeable in your subject than you are, and if you dont something, he know can usually make pretty damn good answers to your questions. he is not infallible though, use his guidance as a starting point to write your own project. dont expect him to write it for you.

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(salam)

 

 

It should be remembered that the mujtahid formulates his opinions after pushing his research and study as far as he can; that is all that is expected of him, for he is neither inerrant nor an `alim bi 'l-ghayb (knower of the unseen). The muqallid is enjoined to follow his opinions. So, even if the mujtahid's fatwa is not actually in agreement with Allah's real command, neither he will be punished on the Day of Judgement for having issued the fatwa, nor will his muqallid for having acted according to it, for both will have done what was commanded of them and what was humanly possible for them to do.

 

http://www.al-islam.org/beliefs/practices/taqlid.html#5

 

You must have heard about the incident of Sheikh Mufeed  (r.a) ( http://www.islam-laws.com/articles/ulemameet.htm )

that a man came and asked him a question: A lady has died and she is pregnant. Should we bury her with the child or cut the stomach take the child out and then bury her. Sheikh Mufeed keeping in mind the fact that a dead body should not be disrespected said that the lady should be buried in that very condition.

When the man turned back to return to his hometown, he met a man on the way who said that the Shekih has changed his fatwa and asked you to cut the stomach take the child out and then bury the lady.

The people did just this.

Later, that man came to Sheikh Mufeed and thanked him for changing the fatwa. As Sheikh had not sent any one he realised that it was Imame Zamana (atfs) who helped him!

The Sheikh stopped giving fatwa's after this incident. Then he received a letter from Imame Zamana  (as) saying... O Sheikh, it is your job to give fatwa's and it is our job to correct it if u make any errors.

We should also keep in mind the high status and position of Sheikh Mufeed as he was addressed as "Brother" by Imame Zamana  (as) in one of his tawqi.

Also our Mujtahid have to struggle a lot to reach that level. And any fatwa which they give is after utilizing their full potential.

They use the best of their means and knowledge to arrive at a fatwa and if after all this they commit a mistake, his followers will not be punished for it.
 

Edited by wayfarer.

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(salam)

 

Thank you pureethics for the points that you tried to refute, but I can also refute yours back :P

 

I'd rather be a primary follower of Imam Mahdi, rather than a secondary follower .. There are still 313 seats left

 

Sis, no offense but that doesnt make any sense. Everyone is a follower of an imam. Whether you decide to follow a marja or not.

 

 

For me, each marjaa is good and should be listened to but they aren't meant to be 'worshiped' or 'stricly followed' and we shouldn't be told that ''our actions aren't accepted by Allah if we don't have a marjaa?'' that reason is just too flawed. I am still a believer of the Ahlulbayt and the quran ,even if I don't follow a marjaa, why wouldn't my actions be accepted ??

 

No one is worshiping them. The only reason why we strictly follow them, because we are not knowledgeable enough to derive law on our own. We have our own limits. We dont have time on our hands for must of us as we are working 7 times a week, at least 8 hour shifts a day, we have school, family to take care of. We learn as much as we can, but it isnt enough to derive laws and things in that nature. This is why we choose a marja. They have dedicated their lives for this. They are the mose knowledgeable. They have reached ijtihad, have you or any others on this site? No one ever said your actions arent accepted, that doesnt make any any sense! The matter isnt your actions, its the unreasonable decision to put incumbent on yourself, the deriving of the laws and the judgement that falls upon you. That is a huge misunderstanding on your part sis.

 

 

 

1-    Its a man made system.. and a man is not infallible ,any man can make mistakes in a fatwa ..even the one's that you chose crystal clear like PureEthics suggested 

 

With all due respect sister but this argument doesnt many any sense. At one point your trying to say we shouldnt follow a fallible man because they can make mistakes, yet you want me to follow my incapable, ignorant, fallbile self, who clearly has no knowledge or dedication for any religious matter. Dont even include the hundreds of sources I cannot access or read due to other restrictions. The matter is, even if the make mistakes its okay, they have fulfilled the highest position among us, while imam mahdi is in hiding. But them committing mistakes on fatwas is highly low because of their time and effort spend on researching this their whole lives and the precautionary matters as well.

 

2-It divides the shia Ummah into different groups. Our goal is unity but with different scholars, we have division (just like MDM explained)

 

Not a valid reason, as their will always be differences in beliefs, but belief differences are far beyond marja differences.

 

3-Most fatwa's are based on Mustahab issues, not wajib issue..if they were wajib, the answers would be in the hadith or in the quran and most marjaa do not give answers based on hadith, they give answers based on their personal opinion ..for example, if you go on a site and you ask ''is it permissible to do that?'' the marjaa will go like '' yes it is ..or not its not'' but he wont refer his answer to a hadith and say '''well, according to imam sadiq, this is bad...''

 

Another misunderstanding sis. Who said they dont give answers based on hadith? They have spend their whole lives understanding every single book, and hadiths are at the top of their job. Their answer is derived from the hadith, but we dont have hadiths on everything. Sometimes one must derive an answer based on the limited hadiths and quranic interpretations we have. We are always advancing. It has been over 1400 yrs since the imams and their time. Things change. If your issue is knowing where their answer came from, I believe they have books on their own research you can read. Almost all wajib matters are clear and precise by all marja. It is the secondary, unimportant issues which differ, meaning whether you do it or not, it doesnt affect anything, or that it is valid both ways.

 

4-I can agree with a fatwa and logically disagree with another fatwa,, i can never follow a marjaa entirely because there is always a disagreement with another of his fatwa . if he tell me that eid is in 3 days, while the moon is right in front of me, i have no choice to disagree with him .. 

 

The matter is you follow him because of his judgement. If you could have ended up being your marja you should have done so. Also it could be because their methods differ. They did not have NASA back then. One may ask, is it okay to use NASA to derive a date or use eye site? Or another may be, sistani uses NASA because he believes it is okay, while x believes in sight seeing. So they end up having two dates and one differs on the day of eid by a day. Which is correct and which is wrong? None of them, both are valid systems with different conclusions. This shouldnt be a reason to despise marjas and argue over it. So what that my eid falls on one day before yours. Does that honestly matter? Are we doing it so we all can party on one day? Or is it for Allah? And that striving was what matters. Honestly, people are so ignorant sometimes.

 

5-Disagreeing with a marjaa doesn't mean that I'm following my desires.. following desires mean that I'm skipping prayers, i'm procrastinating , i decided not to fast.. and believe it or not : i have never skipped any prayers in my whole life.. I'm sure that I'm NOT following my desires when it comes to making conclusions about certain issues...not if you claim that yes i do follow my desires,then marjaa' are the same too..because they're giving personal opinion based on logic (just like me)..

5a- Also, whenever i try to answer a  fiqh question , i arrive at the same conclusion of the marja'a !

 

I dont know how this relates to a marja...I dont get it

 

6-A marjaa himself can disagree with another marjaa,, why shouldn't their follower disagree with their own leader ? I mean, I can agree partially with a part of what my marjaa says, but disagree with another part..

 

Because you are not in their position in knowledge. How about you reach their level so you can do your own ijtihad? I dont understand what is so wrong about following a marja, obeying their rulings and learning as much as possible so one day you dont have to follow your marja if you really dont have to. I believe it is the most reasonable and logical approach. The only thing you would be accounted for is following Allah.

 

7-I dont need an ijtihad degree to know whether or not wearing make up in public is haram or any such question.. I have the answer for this already in the quran , verse about hiding the beauty and wearing Hijab in surat noor .. (i noticed that questions like that are the most -asked to the marjaa...) It seems that people are lazy to search in the quran ..

 

With due respect sis. If everyone knew, we wouldnt need prophets or imams... Its not that easy, other factors fall into play. Such as interpretation, source, derivation, knowledge, taqwa. No one is lazy, they dont want to commit a mistake and hold themselves liable. They may not have the ability to derive it. Maybe they dont hold themselves in a high esteem. I dont want it to fall on my shoulders, because for me im not ready yet, i believe im a incapable, for now....

 

8-Fatwa's are based upon Ulema's opinion and not hadith..if it was hadith, every marjaa would arrive to one same conclusion  (actually, I just understood that the whole debate is upon the TAFSIR of these hadiths,based on their opinion..so hmm okay)

 

LOL Im glad you understand :P

 

9- If no one has sighted the moon, i dont understand why I should listen to what my marjaa has to say on that .. the marjaa himself has not sighted the moon and he cant receive a divine revelation that says on which day its eid ..

 

Im confused on this reason, but I believe you dont understand their is more than one method due to era differences.

 

10- as for the Khums ,paying it to your poorest local marja is the best act of kindness..or donating it to the shrine of imams , I would personally give mine to masjid Sahla :)

 

Know that whatever of a thing you acquire, a fifth of it is for Allah, for the Messenger, for the near relative, and the orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer...(8:41)

 

Giving it to a shrine is okay, but I prefer it for other applicable reasons and I believe instead of trusting my money to a laymen and hoping since im from the west and he from the east, my money reaches to the east fine, ill give it to the most trust able, my marja.

 

11)  a person can not represent an entire population

 

 

 

a scholar can not represent and preach for each person ,because each person has different needs and intentions..therefore his fatwa and rules  can not be applied to every person 

 

 

 

for example, if a person asks whether or not wearing socks during prayers is wajib..then here, it depends on the intention (that only Allah can know) . That person maybe has no money to buy socks, in this case it would be permissible not to wear... or that person wants to show their beauty, in this cae its haram but if that person jut wants to avoid bad smelly feet, she can take the socks off..it depends on each situation and we can not generalize and make general fatwa's by being like ''it is haram!!''

 

? They dont represent populations. We take their knowledge. Technically, what your saying would imply that to the imam as well, whether or not he is sent by God. You do realize intentions are always in the mind, and when a marja decides haram on a issue its because our imams said so, so they must know their is no excuses behind that reasoning.

 

I hope I answered them well sister! :)

InshAllah I helped your misconceptions.

 

Wa Salaam

Edited by PureEthics

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(salam) brother PureEthics

 

thank you for your replies. I read each of your points.

 

I will be honest, but convincing me to follow a Marjaa is like convincing an Atheist to convert to a religion. I know your reasons, I respect them , but they just don't make sense to me .

 

Whenever I have questions, i can just ask an older lady from the community who is knowledgeable and that's it .

 

I'm not trying to say that the whole concept of Taqleed should not be used. In contrary, i know that some people really need to do taqleed in their lives, but as for me , I don't need to follow a Marjaa.  

I just love them all, may god protect them all, from shirazi to khamenai and sistani and the rest

 

Wasalam

Edited by -Enlightened

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(salam) brother PureEthics

 

thank you for your replies. I read each of your points.

 

I will be honest, but convincing me to follow a Marjaa is like convincing an Atheist to convert to a religion. I know your reasons, I respect them , but they just don't make sense to me .

 

Whenever I have questions, i can just ask an older lady from the community who is knowledgeable and that's it .

 

I'm not trying to say that the whole concept of Taqleed should not be used. In contrary, i know that some people really need to do taqleed in their lives, but as for me , I don't need to follow a Marjaa.  

I just love them all, may god protect them all, from shirazi to khamenai and sistani and the rest

 

Wasalam

Salaam.

I respect your decision sis. Im not forcing anyone to follow a marja. I hope we can agree to disagree.

 

Wa Salaam

Edited by PureEthics

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(salam) brother PureEthics

thank you for your replies. I read each of your points.

I will be honest, but convincing me to follow a Marjaa is like convincing an Atheist to convert to a religion. I know your reasons, I respect them , but they just don't make sense to me .

Whenever I have questions, i can just ask an older lady from the community who is knowledgeable and that's it .

I'm not trying to say that the whole concept of Taqleed should not be used. In contrary, i know that some people really need to do taqleed in their lives, but as for me , I don't need to follow a Marjaa.

I just love them all, may god protect them all, from shirazi to khamenai and sistani and the rest

Wasalam

So you are doing taqleed. But instead of doing it to a faqih who spends his life researching and trying to understand the sharia you do it to some random old lady. I'll take my chances with the fuqaha.

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Find an ambassador of the Imam and when you find him, pledge your everything to him, from your khums to your life, as you would to the Imam himself. This is taqleed. There may be such an ambassador at the seat of presidency or principality somewhere with his past life dedicated to scholarly research, or he may be sitting on the dirt in a place you wouldn't want to look. Until the ma'rifah that has traveled down since dawn of man from hearts to hearts is not there in a mujtahid -- the ma'rifah obtained from nowhere except the door of the city of knowledge, the blessed Ahl-albayt (as), and which is obtained after sacrificing everything in their love and obedience, I don't believe such a man should be relied upon blindly.

 

If you can see that someone is blind, like yourself, how can you trust him to show you the way except by deceiving yourself first? When you see that your khums is not being used in service of the Imam then how do you convince yourself to hold on? Such things are criminal negligence imho. If it requires one to abandon their home and everything and search for such a one, like Salman Al-Farisi (ra), then it is the right way, lest someone thinks that he made a mistake. If it requires one to stand in the path of the machine of society and other systems with nothing but belief in Allah, like Bilal (ra), then it is the right way. There is no gain without sacrifice whether someone is born Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Sunni or Shia. Effort must be made. In contrast to popular belief, the truth is never only a few keystrokes away I'm afraid.

Edited by Darth Vader

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^None of this ultimately speaks to the subject at hand though. The imams designated people they trusted to settle disputes and answer questions in their absence, yes. But the key question is how. What these people did was settle questions according to the known verdicts taught by the imams. Do you really think for a minute that they would have even dared to give an answer on something the imams had not talked about, something that wasn't an unambiguous application of a known principle taught by the imams explicitly. You think they would have made up something from their own speculations and presented it as a definite answer? They would have viewed such a thing as heresy.

 

What is the akhbari understanding of this hadith ?:

 

A third hadith is from the Present Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi, peace be upon him, who said in a reply to Ishaq ibn Ya'qub: "As far as newly occurring circumstances are concerned, you should turn (for guidance) to the narrators of our ahadith, for they are my proof over you just as I am Allah's proof

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What is the akhbari understanding of this hadith ?:

 

A third hadith is from the Present Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi, peace be upon him, who said in a reply to Ishaq ibn Ya'qub: "As far as newly occurring circumstances are concerned, you should turn (for guidance) to the narrators of our ahadith, for they are my proof over you just as I am Allah's proof

 

If i ask a question, then the marja should at the very least give me a hadith or two regarding why he made that fatwa. it is not good enough to say to me "i gave a lecture in 1984 to maulvis in qum you should have been there to understand the full explanation".

 

i dont even know why i am bothering to say we are referring to marjas when we are not. is it marjas answering emails or their representatives offices?technically we are not doing taqleed to marjas but their vazeers in whatever country we live in.

 

how watered down shall we make our faith?

 

we are pledging our lifelong unthinking obedience to a low/ middle ranking maulvi on a pc. not our marja. mashallah where do i sign up to taqleed i want to do it immediately.

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Whenever I have questions, i can just ask an older lady from the community who is knowledgeable and that's it .

 

Wowww, an older lady from the community :!!!: . Then we arrive at the Islam of late 18 hundred where people followed by hearsay.

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What is the akhbari understanding of this hadith ?:

A third hadith is from the Present Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi, peace be upon him, who said in a reply to Ishaq ibn Ya'qub: "As far as newly occurring circumstances are concerned, you should turn (for guidance) to the narrators of our ahadith, for they are my proof over you just as I am Allah's proof

I'm not sure what an Akhbari would say. Note too that Akbarism was a late development. The kind of perspective I'm describing dates back to the earliest centuries of scholars, before the Usooli or Akhbari.

One answer would be that new circumstances just means anything that happened after that point. Basically, if they had any questions. Not necessarily meaning entirely novel circumstances. Recall that this hadith predates the big four hadith compilations. So if someone had a question, only the narrators would be around. The Imam wouldn't be available.

The other answer would be that people were being instructed to simply seek guidance.

So if it was something completely novel, the people could ask for advice. The scholar, being honest would say, "Listen. I don't know. The Imams didn't talk about this. There is no general umbrella rule that covers it. There's no solid reason for me to say is forbidden, so you can use your discretion. There are some narrations somewhat related to this that you might want to consider, they are as follows... If it was up to me, I'd do this.... That's what I would_suggest_."

Edited by kadhim

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^^ and the newly occurring circumstances hadees is in context of beginning of ghayba and never did it limit itself to fiqh. Most importantly it says narrators of AHADEES not any alim with fatwas for something not found in ahadees.

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(salam)

 

I have highlighted the relevant part in red :-

 

''"Mirza Muhammed Tankaabuni (r.a.) has recorded a Tawqi which is based on a strange incident. Over here we have extracted only the relevant portion from the incident. Marhum Tankaabuni narrates,

 

"A person from the suburbs of Baghdad approached Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.) to seek the solution of a vexing problem. He asked, "A pregnant woman has expired but her child is alive in the womb, what do you say? Should the foetus be removed through surgery or be buried along with the woman?'"


Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.) replied, "Bury the mother along with the fetus."On getting the reply, the man left for his village. On the way, a horse rider crossed his path. He asked the man to halt and said, 'Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.) has said that the foetus should be removed from the womb through surgery and then the woman be buried alone.'"
The person accepted it and acted on it.

After some time, the man came to Baghdad and narrated the incident to Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.). Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.) said, 'I did not send anybody with this edict. It seems that the person was Imam-e-Asr (a.t.f.s.) (who gave the edict)'. Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.) says, "After this (wrong edict) I am not capable of giving edicts and undertaking the responsibility of Marjaeyyat. After that day I closed the doors of my house and told the people to no longer seek solutions of their problems from me. It was not long before I received a letter from Imam
(a.t.f.s.) in which he (a.t.f.s.) wrote:" You give edicts, we will save you from mistakes and errors. We will not desert you to commit mistakes.'"

In this manner, Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.) by the order of Imam (a.t.f.s.) shouldered the responsibility of Marjaeyyat and recommenced solving the problems of the people.

At the end we can only beseech our beloved Imam - O son of Prophet! O son of Zahra! We lack the spirituality of Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.). We do not love you with the same intensity. On the contrary, we are immersed in sins from head to toe. Help us to love you. O our Master! Help us, look at us, to enable us toe walk on the Straight Path.''''

 

http://www.islam-laws.com/articles/ulemameet.htm#0.1_Imam+Zaman+(a.s.)+and+Shaikh-e-Mufeed+(r.a.)

Edited by wayfarer.

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So you are doing taqleed. But instead of doing it to a faqih who spends his life researching and trying to understand the sharia you do it to some random old lady. I'll take my chances with the fuqaha.

 

 

(salam)

 

I think you missed the point

I said IF i have questions, I ask the people who are more knowledgable than me , i know a very good lady who is knowledgable at my Masjid, I also have the local sheikh's number on my phone.

i contact people whom I can easily reach

 

Wasalam

 

Why an old lady from the community? She may as well be as ignorant as you or more.

 

 

(salam)

 

I said the word ''knowledgeable'' in my post 

 

thank you

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i would trust sis enlightened knowledgable lady over a scanned/ copied and pasted single line email reply after weeks (if at all) from some un named faceless wazeer in the regional office of a marja from the middle east who has no clue that i exist.

at least i can question/ discuss issues with a knowledgeable person i can see.

you people mocking her are being very hypocritical. her method is actually better than yours (email and hope)

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(salam)

 

I would also like to repeat that I love all the scholars. I would like to meet each one of them, I think they are doing an excellent job. I regularly browse their websites 

 

and I would also like to repeat my thesis statement : Taqleed is a beautiful thing, but it is not wajib. You know yourself better ,so you must chose whether doing taqleed applies to you or not .

 

If you are an 'Adil person ( A just person) , you don't need Taqleed. A person who is ''just'' is sinless and can be prayed behind. We don't find an 'Adil person in a coffee shop, in a restaurant or in malls to buy excessive things. He does what Imam want him to do and avoids what Imam doesn't like .

 Its a bit like a Mujtahid, except that they don't have a piece of paper with a signature  . And they dont give fatwas to people 

 

There are other type of people who need to do Taqleed in their lives in order to be good Muslims and I encourage them .


OK, let's take this step by step. According to Islam, is it alright to watch TV? Please provide a proper basis for your answer. 

 

(salam)

If the TV is educational , informative , then there is no problem

However , if it just a leisure spent of time, then it is considered as a ''Lahuw'' ,and therefore should be avoided .

Edited by -Enlightened

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(salam)

If the TV is educational , informative , then there is no problem

However , if it just a leisure spent of time, then it is considered as a ''Lahuw'' ,and therefore should be avoided .

You just gave a fatwa without any hadeeth basis.

(Wa alaikum assalam)

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It was not long before I received a letter from Imam (a.t.f.s.) in which he (a.t.f.s.) wrote:" You give edicts, we will save you from mistakes and errors. We will not desert you to commit mistakes.'"

Are contemporary jurisprudents afforded the same miraculous privilege of inerrancy from the Imam? No? Why not? Aren't the problems we face in our time much more complex than in the time of Mufeed? Why would the Imam protect only Mufeed in exclusion of all other sincere scholars that have pervading influence over believers throughout the world? Isn't this disadvantageous to the followers of Islam? I thought the role of an Imam is to guide humanity, no? What is the Imam doing if he isn't screening the rulings from clerics before they're issued?

Of course, I don't really believing in this nonsensical story. I'm just prompting you to reflect deeply on what you're reading. You're absorbing material unthinkingly.

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i would trust sis enlightened knowledgable lady over a scanned/ copied and pasted single line email reply after weeks (if at all) from some un named faceless wazeer in the regional office of a marja from the middle east who has no clue that i exist.

at least i can question/ discuss issues with a knowledgeable person i can see.

you people mocking her are being very hypocritical. her method is actually better than yours (email and hope)

I was not mocking, just pointing out that in reality those who are saying they don't need to do taqlid are actually doing it in one way or another.

In general most people email the office of their marja unnecessarily. The first guide should be reading the rulings in their books. Several maraje have their rulings on their websites and for most issues you can get the answer by looking at their rulings. If that doesn't work it is always better to seek out a local scholar to try and discuss the issue at hand as they can likely bring more nuance to the issue than you would get from an email response. Emailing the office of a marja should be the last resort as most questions are not really just a yes/no answer which is what email is best for. They don't have the time to write a thesis back to you with detailed proofs. If you want that type if depth start reading books and seeking out local scholars that can help you develop a deeper understanding.

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Are contemporary jurisprudents afforded the same miraculous privilege of inerrancy from the Imam? No? Why not?

 

I am sure they are. Who are you to say that they are not?

 

Aren't the problems we face in our time much more complex than in the time of Mufeed?

Who is denying that they are?

Why would the Imam protect only Mufeed in exclusion of all other sincere scholars that have pervading influence over believers throughout the world?

Did Imam (as) mention anywhere that Sheikh Mufeed (ra) would be the last of all the other sincere scholars that I will be protecting? No? Why not?

Isn't this disadvantageous to the followers of Islam?

Promulgating a wrong assumption that the Imam (as) does not guide the sincere scholars is disadvantageous to yourself and the other followers of Islam who concur with your false assumption.

I thought the role of an Imam is to guide humanity, no?

Absolutely yes thats His (as) role. Did you also think that "guiding humanity" means that the Imam (as) must first inform and announce to you "O mehdi23 (or whatever your name is), Be a witness that I am here and about to begin my guidance?"

What is the Imam doing if he isn't screening the rulings from clerics before they're issued?

What makes you believe that the Imam (as) isn't screening the rulings? It could be that the Imam (as) doesn't find the issued rulings to be problematic, no?

Of course, I don't really believing in this nonsensical story.

No one is compelling you to.

I'm just prompting you to reflect deeply on what you're reading. You're absorbing material unthinkingly.

I could say the same to you.

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You just gave a fatwa without any hadeeth basis.

(Wa alaikum assalam)

salam Alaikom

 

go read surat Al mominoon ,the first few verses and you will clearly read the verse where it says that true believers avoid wasting time . (do not spend their time in doing stuff other than Dhikr of Allah)

 

''Wa hum ala al laghu hum mo'uredhoon''

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salam Alaikom

go read surat Al mominoon ,the first few verses and you will clearly read the verse where it says that true believers avoid wasting time . (do not spend their time in doing stuff other than Dhikr of Allah)

''Wa hum ala al laghu hum mo'uredhoon''

Wa alaikum assalam. That verse doesn't specifically talk about watching TV.

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Wa alaikum assalam. That verse doesn't specifically talk about watching TV.

 

Salam Alaikom

 

I said that if the TV is educational and informal , it is okay to watch it . If it neither educational nor informal, but just a waste of time, then it should be avoided, according to the verse. 

 

Its common sense here .

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Salam Alaikom

I said that if the TV is educational and informal , it is okay to watch it . If it neither educational nor informal, but just a waste of time, then it should be avoided, according to the verse.

Its common sense here .

Wa alaikum assalam. Again, the verse doesn't talk about TVs.

Your fatwa is indirectly derived (from your guess), there's no TV prohibition of any kind directly in Islam.

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Salam Alaikom

 

I said that if the TV is educational and informal , it is okay to watch it . If it neither educational nor informal, but just a waste of time, then it should be avoided, according to the verse. 

 

Its common sense here .

With due respect sister, im just trying to show you an error in your logic. First you said go look at a surah, which has to be interpreted. Interpretation differs among mankind as ignorance is prevalent. How are you sure that the translation you speak of is the correct translation? As someone who might take this verse and completely turns the meaning could say something different then yours. Now we have one option, does our imams say anything about this matter? Do we have hadiths that support or reject this notion of "TV"? Does the good out way the bad, or vice versa? How do you know which is correct? Can you find the hadith? If not is there other hadiths that may support this issue? What will be the ruling based on which derivation? So you see, this process is not that simple. You need to put time into not just this very simple yet long task, but almost every other issue at hand. It takes dedication and vast resources in which you must have knowledge and wisdom to comprehend. Do your scholar have ijitihad? Do your scholar have the answer or hadith that support this or any other abstract issue? Do you have the answer? To me the logical answer is my marja. You or a scholar didnt reach the level of ijithad. There is a reason why your scholar is a just a normal scholar, they are still learning. They cannot give their opinions to you, except keep it to themseleves. They just know basic fiq.

 

Wa Salaam

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(salam) I have highlighted the relevant part in red :- ''"Mirza Muhammed Tankaabuni (r.a.) has recorded a Tawqi which is based on a strange incident. Over here we have extracted only the relevant portion from the incident. Marhum Tankaabuni narrates, "A person from the suburbs of Baghdad approached Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.) to seek the solution of a vexing problem. He asked, "A pregnant woman has expired but her child is alive in the womb, what do you say? Should the foetus be removed through surgery or be buried along with the woman?'"Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.) replied, "Bury the mother along with the fetus."On getting the reply, the man left for his village. On the way, a horse rider crossed his path. He asked the man to halt and said, 'Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.) has said that the foetus should be removed from the womb through surgery and then the woman be buried alone.'"The person accepted it and acted on it.After some time, the man came to Baghdad and narrated the incident to Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.). Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.) said, 'I did not send anybody with this edict. It seems that the person was Imam-e-Asr (a.t.f.s.) (who gave the edict)'. Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.) says, "After this (wrong edict) I am not capable of giving edicts and undertaking the responsibility of Marjaeyyat. After that day I closed the doors of my house and told the people to no longer seek solutions of their problems from me. It was not long before I received a letter from Imam(a.t.f.s.) in which he (a.t.f.s.) wrote:" You give edicts, we will save you from mistakes and errors. We will not desert you to commit mistakes.'"In this manner, Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.) by the order of Imam (a.t.f.s.) shouldered the responsibility of Marjaeyyat and recommenced solving the problems of the people.At the end we can only beseech our beloved Imam - O son of Prophet! O son of Zahra! We lack the spirituality of Shaikh Mufeed (r.a.). We do not love you with the same intensity. On the contrary, we are immersed in sins from head to toe. Help us to love you. O our Master! Help us, look at us, to enable us toe walk on the Straight Path.'''' http://www.islam-laws.com/articles/ulemameet.htm#0.1_Imam+Zaman+(a.s.)+and+Shaikh-e-Mufeed+(r.a.)

That story is a lie. First thing because we know the meaning of ghayba and people not able to meet him or recognise him. Even if you don't believe so then believe that sheikh mufeed did not read Al kafi as this is in the chapters of Qadha ameer Al momineen.

So a kadhab qadi or a lie on him or a qadhi who is not aware of basic shia book and qadha of aimma a.s. believe whatever its up to you

Salam Alaikom I said that if the TV is educational and informal , it is okay to watch it . If it neither educational nor informal, but just a waste of time, then it should be avoided, according to the verse. Its common sense here .

What you are doing is istenbaat. Edited by siraatoaliyinhaqqun

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 we know the meaning of ghayba and people not able to meet him or recognise him.

 

^ Please read http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=3869

 

Possibility of Meeting with Imam (as) in Major Occultation

History of both minor and major occultation’s is a witness to the fact that anyone who sought guidance received it, From Imam (A.S.). Today also if anyone sincerely, seeks guidance will receive it from Imam (A.S.).

Committing oneself completely to the wisdom and expediencies of Allah is mandatory on the representative of Allah, as Allah bestows the responsibility of guiding and leadership to those who not only stick to ordinance of Allah but their intentions are also guided by the desire and pleasure of Allah. As a result statements that flow from his mouth bear His assent. Contradicting the desire of Allah is a sin and a sinner cannot reach this office. Keeping the above principle in mind, we have to conclude that all Imams necessarily followed the commands of Allah and his actions, words and assent reflect the prescription of Allah. Now if Imam is apparent it concurrent with command of Allah, speaks at Allah's behest, his silence bears the assent of Allah, travels and migrates for Allah's pleasure, remains hidden from nation at His dictates, goes into occultation at His dictates, chooses his representatives in minor occultation subscribing to His will. In short, he follows and concedes to all injunctions of Allah.

After presenting this prologue we intend to plunge directly to our main discussion . "Whether it is possible to meet Imam-e-Asr in his major occultation?"

Possibility of doubt would not have been there if people had gone through the Tawqee' (letter of Imam) which Imam sent to his fourth and last representative, Ali bin Mohammad-e-Saimuri. After informing him of his (Ali ibn Mohammad) death Imam said :

"...soon a time shall come when my Shias will claim to have met me. Beware! For the one who claims that, he has met me before the uprising of Sufyani and a call from the sky is a liar and a deceiver."

Even after this clear 'Tawqee' some pious and sanctimonious scholars and sincere people described their meeting of Imam (A.S.), and they are such people whose trustworthiness is beyond question. In this contradictory circumstance it becomes rather difficult, to asses the true position. Rejecting the words of Islam is near to blasphemy, while rejecting the pious people, whose integrity is beyond doubt is not, acceptable to one's self. Also no other person can come in countenance of Imam(A.S.). In such paradoxical circumstances we have to after all reach a conclusion. In reality, people have not understood the essence of' Tawqee' as it does not, deny the possibility of meeting Hazrat Baqiyatullah (may our live be sacrificed for him) in major occultation. Rather it comes heavily on pseudos selling the idea of being an ambassador. In other words, this points to those who claim to be emissaries and deputies of Imam (A.S.) like Ali Mohammad Shirazi. It is a lamentable fact, that like other scripts of Imam (A.S.) this 'Tawqee' also was not able to acquire due attention from Shia cadres. Shia scholars and masses alike have not pondered upon it. Otherwise the artificial and pseudo special deputies and Mahdis would not have made their claims.

The statement of the 'Tawqee' that some people will claim to have met me can be interpreted as those who will come forward and proclaim on the top of their voices in order to market their fabricated ideas, under the garb of meeting Imam and taking instructions directly from him. Mention can also be made of those people who falsely claimed to have met Imam (A.S.) due to social disturbances. It would not be wrong to mention that apart from false claimants of deputyship in the present century there were many individuals who sold their satanic ideas under the label of 'Basharat'.

Without going in much detail, let us analyze and find out, the meaning of the word 'Ghaibat', as its correct interpretation is of paramount importance in our discussions. But, again people have a very superficial understanding of the word 'Ghaibat'. The word is derived from the infinitive 'Ghaib' which means 'to be away'. The word is related to Imam (A.S.) in the same manner as the sun which is not visible to the naked eye either due to the darkness of night or impediment of clouds, but, its existence and presence is not affected. Similarly Hazrat Wali-e-Asr exists but is not seen by the people.

There are two viewpoints about the 'Ghaibat' of Hazrat Wali-e-Asr. First opinion which is prevalent among common masses and is also supported by the apparent meaning of some traditions is that Imam is invisible in the sense that people cannot see him but he can see them. He might be sitting in a particular place but that place is felt as vacant. This view can be supported by a tradition recorded by Sheikh-e-Sadook in his book 'Kamaluddin' from Rayyan that Imam-e-Reza (A.S.) in reply to a question concerning 'Qaem' said : "Neither his body can be seen, nor his name can be uttered" (Pg-370).

As far as the safety and protection of lmam Mahdi (A.S.) is concerned, this viewpoint is quiet simple to understand, straightforward and practical. He stays in a secluded place away from all incoherence’s of society.

Second viewpoint categorically states that people are in a position to see him but are unable to recognize him or are not attentive to it. They are unaware of his personality and whereabouts. Imam Hasan-e-Askari (A.S.) trained him secretly away from eyes of people but relaxing the rule for some of his special companions. This was done intentionally to establish the vicegerency of Hazrat, Wali-e-Asr (A.S.). After the sad demise of Imam Hasan-e-Askari (A.S.) the veil of occultation was tightened and he was in contact with masses through four special deputies. Only few reliable and trustworthy Shias like Ali ibn Mahziyar were fortunate enough to see him but every time Imam exhorted them to maintain secrecy. With the passage of time, minor occultation proceeded towards an end and all those companions of Imam Hasan-e-Askari (AS.) who saw Imam Mahdi (A.S.) passed away and a time came when those who were aware of his features became virtually extinct, and a new generation emerged who was totally ignorant about his peculiarities. They were unable to recognize him even when he would be in their presence. Traveling to any part of the world was not an impediment, for him.

After briefly explaining the two viewpoints about the occultation of Imam (A.S.) the question arises about, the possibility of meeting imam in occultation. There would not have been any room for such a question if the tradition mentioned earlier would not have been there designating a person who claims to have met. Imam (A.S.) as liar. We have mentioned this in no unclear terms explaining its interpretation and in its light is the following discussion based.

Whether viewing Imam (A.S.) physically is possible based on logic and reasoning given two viewpoints about occultation? is the first, question to be dealt, with. In reply to this, if we accept the first viewpoint about his invisibility then conversation or meeting with him becomes impossible unless and until a miracle takes place and at the will of Imam as and when the situation so demands. But, as per second viewpoint only his name and cognizance is hidden and we support, this view point with sufficient proofs to substantiate our claim. There are three possibilities of meeting Imam (AS.) :

(a} Meeting Imam Mahdi (A.S.) without, realizing that he is Imam and there are scores of incidents in this regard.

(b} Meeting Imam Mahdi (AS.) but becoming aware afterwards.

(c} To meet Imam and during conversation realize that he is talking with Imam. These types of incidents are very few; may be due to occultation, this thing is kept secret.

Now if we accept the first viewpoint then meeting with Imam (A.S.) requires a miracle, but as regards the other viewpoint we categorically refer to benefit and need of Imam. Imam is essential to lead the society towards the right path, purpose of meeting with people is relieving the group from oppression, to alleviate a person from physical or economic harm or to show the right path and so on but of course with will of Allah and within limits of occultation.

After the above discussion the point has been made clear that meeting Imam in occultation is not only possible but, sometimes the circumstances render it essential. Statement of Tawqee' was meant, to caution people from claimants who would fool the people. But as far as religious and pious people are concerned many incidents have been recorded out, of which a few are mentioned below:

1) Muhaddis-e-Qummi in book Muntahal Aamaal narrates an incident, from Mulla Zainul Aabedin Salmasi about Allama Bahrul Uloom. Incident pertains to those days when Allama was staying in Mecca and giving lectures to Hanafi, Shafi, Malaki and Hanbali scholars. Salmasi says that one day he expressed concern about the mounting expenses due to Allama's benevolence and the situation had arrived when not, a single penny was left. Salmasi did not receive any reply.

The routine schedule of Allama consisted of him performing the circumambulation of Kaaba, then going in a private chamber and after smoking pipe going into another chamber where he used to give instructions and verdicts in various schools of jurisprudence . Next, day when he just started smoking somebody knocked at the door and to my astonishment Allama him self quickly rushed to open the door instructing me to take the pipe away. I saw a handsome man in the dress of Arabs, with a pleasing personality who entered and sat in the room and Allama in utter humbleness sat by the side of door and indicated me not to bring the pipe. After conversing for some time the man stood up and Sayed himself opened the door and made him ride the camel. Later Sayed returned and seemed perplexed. He gave me a piece of paper and asked me to go to a money changer who was stationed at the hill of Safa and to take whatever he gave.

I went there and handed over that note to him. He, with great respect kissed it and asked me to bring laborers. I did so and they were loaded with franc riyals to the extent, they could carry. Once I went to Safa to inquire about that money changer but to my astonishment 1 did not find a single shop there. I inquired in the vicinity but they also assorted that they had never seen any moneychanger there. I understood that it is a secret of Allah.

2) Mention in this regard can be made of another incident of Allama Bahrul Uloom which is reported by Allama Majlisi (R.A). Aqa-e-Zainul Aabedin Salmasi narrates that he was sitting in gathering with Allama Bahrul Uloorn and at, that time one person questioned him about the possibility of meeting Imam Mahdi (A.S.). Allama, who was holding a smoking pipe in his hand, put, aside the pipe and bending his head murmured in such a manner that I was able to hear it. He said, "What reply I should give to this person? Although, Imam Mahdi has embraced me there are explicit traditions calling a person liar who claims to have met him" After this he lifted his head and replied, "It is narrated in the traditions that, one who claims to have met Imam should he outrightly rejected." He did not say a single word further.

From the above incidents it becomes clear that meeting Hazrat is possible but propagating it, is not permitted, so as to prevent its misuse by self-centered people.

3) It is mentioned in Biharul Anwar (Vbl-53, Pg 255) by Allama Majlisi (R.A.) that, Sheikh Baqir Kazmi narrates an incident of a barber who was serving his old father. This pious person performed his duty to the extent of helping him in going

to toilet. He never used to be away from his father except, on Wednesdays, when he used to go to Masjid e-Sahla hut keeping the track of time. Not seeing him for quite a few weeks, in Masjide Sahla, I (Sheikh Baqir Kazmi) inquired from him the reason for not coming to Mosque. The barber explained that he went for forty Wednesdays, but, on the fortieth time he was not, able to proceed early.

He started in night, and was nearing his destination when suddenly his eyes settled on a distant rider who apparently seemed to be an Arab nomad who was heading towards him. When he came face to face he inquired about his destination in a nomadic dialect. He promptly replied, 'Masjid-e-Sahla'. Then he (nomad) inquired whether he (barber) was having some eatables with him, but he replied in negative. The Arab nomad again asked him to put his hand in his pocket and to see whether he was having some eatables. He again assured the Arab that he was having nothing. On his insistence he searched his pocket and found some raisins which he had purchased for his small son and had forgotten about it.

Then the person pronounced thrice (in nomadic language) which meant, 'I advise you concerning your father' and disappeared. Then he (barber) realized that the man was no other than Hazrat Hujjat who is not, happy to see me remain negligent of my father even on Wednesdays.

4) Aqa-e-Haj Reza Hamdani narrates in his book 'Misbah' that on some occasions Hazrat Hujjat (A.S.) gives opportunity of seeing his selected and trustworthy Shias. For instance, about fifty years back a pious scholar Abdur Rahim Dimavandi was able to avail of this opportunity. He narrates that in complete darkness he met Hazrat, who was standing facing Qible and light was emitting from his face. The light was so luminating that even the floor was clearly visible along with its details.

Hajjatui Islam Wal Muslemeen Aqa-e-Shiekh Mohammad Hamdani whose piousness was beyond doubt and acclaimed by one and all, wrote that once his wife was in a semiconscious state and doctors had given up all hopes of her survival that I prayed to Hazrat, on 22nd Safar, 1397 A.H. she was carried in midnight.

In short, after considering the numerous incidents of meeting Hazrat and also the traditions we can conclude that :

a} It is absolutely absurd and false to claim that meeting with Hazrat can be held at one's desire, without the same from Imam.

b} On other hand, if Hazrat himself wishes to honor somebody with the opportunity to meet him is a different matter. In that case supplications are very helpful but acceptance of same depends, on Hazrat.

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Wa alaikum assalam. Again, the verse doesn't talk about TVs.

Your fatwa is indirectly derived (from your guess), there's no TV prohibition of any kind directly in Islam.

 

 

its from my Aql, not the guess. Allah created me with dignity .  He created all the other scholars with dignity as well, and each of the scholars have different fatwa based on their Aql and not their hadiths.. because if it was truly from the hadith, they would all have the same opinion .

With due respect sister, im just trying to show you an error in your logic. First you said go look at a surah, which has to be interpreted. Interpretation differs among mankind as ignorance is prevalent. How are you sure that the translation you speak of is the correct translation? As someone who might take this verse and completely turns the meaning could say something different then yours. Now we have one option, does our imams say anything about this matter? Do we have hadiths that support or reject this notion of "TV"? Does the good out way the bad, or vice versa? How do you know which is correct? Can you find the hadith? If not is there other hadiths that may support this issue? What will be the ruling based on which derivation? So you see, this process is not that simple. You need to put time into not just this very simple yet long task, but almost every other issue at hand. It takes dedication and vast resources in which you must have knowledge and wisdom to comprehend. Do your scholar have ijitihad? Do your scholar have the answer or hadith that support this or any other abstract issue? Do you have the answer? To me the logical answer is my marja. You or a scholar didnt reach the level of ijithad. There is a reason why your scholar is a just a normal scholar, they are still learning. They cannot give their opinions to you, except keep it to themseleves. They just know basic fiq.

 

Wa Salaam

 

no the verse of the Quran was very clear and said not to waste time in activities that do not give benefits. (that is very very clear)

I am Iraqi from origins and know arabic well , i have completed the quran over 15 times . The Arabic language is clear to me. Some verses need to be interpreted, in this case, I have no problem in seeing tafisr Al mizan, in fact I encourage it and appreciate it.

 

Scholars who follow your fomula also make errors just like normal human beings, just clarifying . 

 

at the end of the day, Allah will judge you according to your own dignity and not according to another person's dignity (your scholar). You have to make the choices from your personal life, no fatwaa can be applied universally as those aren't precise like the Quran or the Hadith , but the opinion of the scholars and regular knowledgable people (such as local sheikh) does indeed matter sometimes . (And I said scholarS with an S, meaning more than one)

Edited by -Enlightened

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its from my Aql, not the guess. Allah created me with dignity .  He created all the other scholars with dignity as well, and each of the scholars have different fatwa based on their Aql and not their hadiths.. because if it was truly from the hadith, they would all have the same opinion .

 

What does dignity have anything to do with it? This is an academic question. There's no direct prohibition of TV, so you tried to come up with an answer based on your own knowledge and reasoning.

 

Now, consider other people doing the same thing. If you have two people taking trying to reach the right answer, one with lower knowledge and another with higher knowledge, who is more likely to reach the right answer? The one who has spent his life learning about everything to do with that subject, or a person with passing familiarity with the subject? You always need to rely on the experts, not some old lady or whatever. The more knowledgeable the better. This is what taqleed is, asking the most learned. 

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What makes you believe that the Imam (as) isn't screening the rulings? It could be that the Imam (as) doesn't find the issued rulings to be problematic, no?

Imam doesn't find conflicting verdicts to be problematic? Sure, whatever you have to tell yourself. Facepalm.

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its from my Aql, not the guess. Allah created me with dignity .  He created all the other scholars with dignity as well, and each of the scholars have different fatwa based on their Aql and not their hadiths.. because if it was truly from the hadith, they would all have the same opinion .

 

no the verse of the Quran was very clear and said not to waste time in activities that do not give benefits. (that is very very clear)

I am Iraqi from origins and know arabic well , i have completed the quran over 15 times . The Arabic language is clear to me. Some verses need to be interpreted, in this case, I have no problem in seeing tafisr Al mizan, in fact I encourage it and appreciate it.

 

Scholars who follow your fomula also make errors just like normal human beings, just clarifying . 

 

at the end of the day, Allah will judge you according to your own dignity and not according to another person's dignity (your scholar). You have to make the choices from your personal life, no fatwaa can be applied universally as those aren't precise like the Quran or the Hadith , but the opinion of the scholars and regular knowledgable people (such as local sheikh) does indeed matter sometimes . (And I said scholarS with an S, meaning more than one)

Salaam Sis :D

Im loving our dialogue.

Okay, sister your using the wrong approach. Which benefits? I can go to a dance party and have fun. Im being joyful which benefits me mentally and socially. I will be dancing with people which benefits me physically. You see what I did there? So know, according to the verse, im not breaking any law of God. Im doing exactly what Allah says, im benefiting.  MashAllah sis,15 times, your amazing, pray for me.

 

Yes they can make errors, but the matter is, they have reached a higher point then all the believers. Trust me, if anything we are more to much more errors then them. Not only they have reached ijtihad status, but their taqwa is what got them there. Im confused on what you mean by dignity? What does dignity have to do with ijtihad? I want you to understand, the differences arnt in fiq, its in secondary matter, in precautionary matter. What is wajib and batil dont change, except if there is a valid reason like advancement of times. Even though some differ between marja, they are both right according to their approach. They both have valid and correct reasons. There has never been a actual contradiction in a wajib matter among marjas.

 

Wa Salaam

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