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andres

Did Jesus Not Die From The Crucifixion

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In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Ever Merciful; The Eternal, The Righteous, The Owner Of Sovereignty, The Lord Of Majesty And Bounty, The Self-Sufficient, The Supreme, The Self-Subsisting In Whom All Subsist. The Peace Be Upon You, Everyone.
 

 

Hello Faithfully

Religious beliefs depend not on logic , but we may still speculate. When the Quran say that Jesus was not killed or crucified by the Jews, this could still mean he was killed by the Romans. I have asked if there in the Quran is a sura that clearly states that Jesus was not crucified nor killed. This seems not to be the case. I know Muslims in spite of this believe Jesus was not killed. You say our holy books are corrupted. Naturally as a christian I must argue against this claim that I find very thin, Muhammeds knowledge of Jesus extremely limited and the reference to Barnabas Gospel, in order to fill this hole, surprising.--andres


This will have to be my final response on this thread/topic. Belief does depend upon sound reasoning. What you are speculating upon appears to border on the absurd.  Prophet Jesus was neither killed nor crucified. What does ethnicity have to with it? Must He PBUH, die a brutal death for you to accept Him PBUH? Well, it never happened! So, are your sins not to be forgiven, otherwise? Allaah, All Praise Is Due HIM, Is All Merciful, All Forgiveness. Be perfect in your righteousness, be perfect in your love! You know how to perform good deeds, also.
I say your N.T., holy book has been corrected to some extent re: the crucifixion story. Please don't put words in my mouth. Am I to believe that you just like being argumentative?



Wa salaam.   Faithfully999
 
 

 

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Hi Faithfully

You are absolutely right. I am speculating. I am not saying that the Quran says that the Romans killed Jesus, only pointing out that Quran only says that the Jews did not do it. I have been asking if someone more familiar with the Quran than me, can demonstrate that the Quran says that Jesus was not killed nor crucified at all, but noone has. This does not prove anything, but it could suggest that the question was not that important to the Quran. I dont think you or anybody else will end up in hell just because they dont believe Jesus was crucified, God is forgiving, not narrowminded.

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The most common conversion from physical to spiritual is when a body dies, the spirit leaves it. 

What is not common is for the spirit to leave the body to die on it's own. This is because us normal humans can't just decide when it's time to die.

If God decides to take your spirit from your body and bring it unto Himself, is that not ascension?

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Hi Faithfully

You are absolutely right. I am speculating. I am not saying that the Quran says that the Romans killed Jesus, only pointing out that Quran only says that the Jews did not do it. I have been asking if someone more familiar with the Quran than me, can demonstrate that the Quran says that Jesus was not killed nor crucified at all, but noone has. This does not prove anything, but it could suggest that the question was not that important to the Quran. I dont think you or anybody else will end up in hell just because they dont believe Jesus was crucified, God is forgiving, not narrowminded.

 

The overarching prophetic archetype in the Qur'an is one of triumph and salvation, as opposed to martyrdom. Allah says in the Qur'an that there were many martyred prophets - prophets that were killed by their nations - but the stories of these sacrifices are not present. Of the 25 or so prophets mentioned by name, only two were martyrs (John the Baptist and Zakaria), but neither of their martyrdom stories were mentioned. On the contrary, the Qur'an recounts the stories of Lot, Shu`aib, Hud, Salih, Noah, Abraham, David, Solomon, Joseph, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad (pbuh). What all of these prophets have in common was that despite their oppression, they remained faithful to Allah and Allah gave them salvation. With Noah, Allah rescued him from the flood. With Abraham, Allah rescued him from the fire. With Moses, Allah rescued him from Pharaoh and split the sea. With Jesus, in our belief, Allah rescued him from the cross. And with Muhammad (pbuh), Allah rescued him from the polytheists. Allah mentioned the stories of the prophets to the Muslims so that they may draw parallels between the stories given and the struggle of our Prophet (pbuh).

 

The Qur'an says that the Jews did not crucify Christ, and this is the truth. The idea that it was actually the Romans crucified him is a technicality - it was the Jews that tried Jesus, it was them who blackmailed Pilate, and Pilate was said to have viewed Jesus as a good man. If someone were to hire a hitman to assassinate a person, that someone would still be guilty of murder. The hitman would be the vehicle and the weapon to that killing, but the killing would only happen through the original intent and resources of that someone. The argument that the Qur'an does not say Christ was crucified is a semantic and is void of any historical criticism. No verses uphold the crucifixion, and rather the verse explicitly denies it. No hadiths uphold the crucifixion, and rather the hadiths deny it. No exegeses uphold the crucifixion, and rather the exegeses deny it. No classical Islamic school believed in the crucifixion of Christ. There is no real evidence of the crucifixion being a belief of the Prophet (pbuh), his companions, and the Imams (as). Even if one were to assume that Jesus (as) was on a cross for a period of time, it has no significance to Islamic theology. We do not uphold the concept of the original sin, we do not believe in human sacrifices, we do not view Jesus as divine, and we believe in personal accountability of our own sins.

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Hello Qa'im

I respect your belief that Jesus was not crucified, but I dont agree. You are demonstrating that the conclusion that Jesus was not crucified can not be drawn from the Quran alone. Because the Quran has so little to say about Jesus, your argumentation rely on other sources and traditions. This was actually my point; why is the Quran so unclear about the death of Jesus? It tells a lot about Joseph, but so little about the life of Jesus. Why does the Quran not tell its version if it believes the entire christian community had been fooled to believe in the crucifixion?

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^ From the point-of-view of the Qur'an, the verses can be interpreted to confirm the historical crucifixion, but deny his spiritual death. Remember, that even in Islam, Jesus عليه السلام is the Messiah and expected to return at the End of Time. So, it could also be taken to mean that they did crucify him, but that they did not "kill" him because he is destined to return and will still carry out his messianic tasks. It could also be understood why from the view point of later Islamic scholars, denying the historical crucifixion would be of benefit in the polemics with the Christians of their time (i.e. you would be taking a shot at the most important theological event in Christianity, which they took as an indication of his عليه السلام atonement for the sins of mankind but that Muslims would obviously disagree with).

 

(wasalam)

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Hello Qa'im

I respect your belief that Jesus was not crucified, but I dont agree. You are demonstrating that the conclusion that Jesus was not crucified can not be drawn from the Quran alone. Because the Quran has so little to say about Jesus, your argumentation rely on other sources and traditions. This was actually my point; why is the Quran so unclear about the death of Jesus? It tells a lot about Joseph, but so little about the life of Jesus. Why does the Quran not tell its version if it believes the entire christian community had been fooled to believe in the crucifixion?

 

The Qur'an is unclear on events surrounding the crucifixion just as it is unclear on the lives of almost 124,000 prophets that are not mentioned in the book by name. Frankly, the issue is not as important to Muslims. Even if I were to hypothetically agree with you in saying that Jesus was killed, our religion would not be much different, as many prophets had been betrayed and killed. What I'm saying is, what gives the crucifixion its significance is the concept of Original Sin. This dictates that the sin of Adam caused humanity's Fall, and Jesus' sacrifice would be the reparation for that evil. However, we do not believe that a human is inherently sinful or evil, nor do we believe that he would be punished and doomed to hell because of the sin of his ancestor. Nor do we believe a human sacrifice would remove such a sin from us. Nor do we believe He would cause His servant to suffer this horrible and humiliating death on behalf of the sinners. Allah does not need blood to forgive, nor does He punish you for what you do not deserve. He is the Just, the Wise.

Our argument is that the verse is denying crucifixion, while the other argument is that the verse is only denying responsibility.

 

What I'm saying is that the Qur'an directed its attention to the Jews and said, "They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it was made to appear that way to them" - these are very explicit words, and to say "Well, it was actually the Romans who killed Jesus" is a technicality. That argument does not prove the crucifixion of Jesus. Especially with the "made to appear that way to them" part; if Jesus was indeed crucified, then what would this statement even mean? Why would God give Jews the impression that they crucified Jesus? What purpose does this fulfill? The verse ends off with the statement, "those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not". Again, this statement makes more sense in the context of crucifixion, rather than the context of responsibility. Why would those who believe the Jews were responsible for the crucifixion be "full of doubts"? Is there any record of this confusion even taking place? On the other hand, those who upheld the crucifixion found different ways of explaining it. Paul re-emphasizes the crucifixion in his letters as says that there is no Christianity without the cross. Take a look at the Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter for example, which shows that some Gnostics believed that Jesus' essence was not his flesh, and therefore he was not crucified. In early Christianity there is a well-recorded debate regarding the divinity of Jesus, and whether his body was also as much "God" as his spirit was.

The Islamic tradition is a vast tradition, and it relies on tens of thousands of oral narrations and hundreds of books, yet not one confirm the crucifixion of Jesus. It is not at all strange that our prophetic narrative would differ from the Bible's in this issue, as it differs in many other issues as well. Compare and contrast the Islamic and Christian versions of each prophetic story and you'll see stark differences on some things. Our belief is that the Qur'an is a correction of previous narratives.

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Hi Andres,

 

I appreciate the comments of Qa’im and Ibn al-Hassan, in saying that since Muslims don’t believe in the death of Jesus, as having any significance for their salvation, then to them it doesn’t really matter whether Jesus died or not.

--- However, for the ones who try to convince by creating theories to explain it away, who tell us it didn’t happen the way the Scriptures said, --- they are not wanting to allow us to believe the Scriptures --- with the same freedom they have.

--- Frankly I am not concerned with what others believe, but when they make wrong statements, --- then it allows the privilege to write what is written in the NT and the Quran to try and keep it on track.

 

So, Andres, I want to give you more information if you want to receive it. --- It is natural that you will not find anything about the Romans in the Quran because there is only one verse that says, “The Romans have been defeated.”

 

However, I want to go back to the account in Surah 2:

It speaks of the sacrifice of an unblemished heifer in Surah 2, from which the Surah takes its name, The Cow. --- From 63-71 is all about the Jews in the time of Moses who broke their covenant, broke the Sabbath, and then they made the ‘golden calf.’

--- Therefore the unblemished heifer was a fitting sacrifice for their sin, Surah 2:

 

--- (Then it speaks to the Jews in Madinah about another historical event.)

72  Remember ye slew a man and fell into a dispute among yourselves as to the crime: But God was to bring forth what ye did hide.

--- (The Pharisees did not all agree with the killing of Jesus, and two of them, Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea, asked for the body of Jesus after His death, and placed it in the tomb.)

The ‘charge’ in this verse is that it was the Jews who killed Jesus, in these words, “Remember ye slew a man.”

--- The Pharisees had no authority to kill anyone so they had to accuse Jesus before Pilate and when Pilate wanted to let Him go, they started to protest, and Pilate, afraid they would start a riot said, “What will we do with Jesus?” --- They said, “Crucify Him.” Pilate asked, “Shall I crucify your King?” --- They said, “We have no king but Caesar.” Pilate again would have let Him go, but the call was getting louder to crucify Him.

Pilate said, “You take Him and crucify Him,” --- and he washed his hands in front of them. --- THEY SAID, “LET HIS BLOOD BE ON US AND ON OUR CHILDREN.”

--- This is an acceptance of responsibility --- as THEY HAD ‘instigated’ His death. --- And the Romans took Him to crucify Him.

 

Now let’s consider what the Quran said in these parts of 72 and 73, by the Muslim translators.

Pickthall: 72 And (remember) when ye slew a man and disagreed concerning it

73  Thus Allah bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His portents so that ye may understand.

 

Yusuf Ali: 72 Remember ye slew a man and fell into a dispute among yourselves as to the crime:

73 Thus God bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs: Perchance ye may understand.

 

Hilali Khan: 72 And (remember) when you killed a man and fell into dispute among yourselves as to the crime.

73 Thus Allah brings the dead to life and shows you His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) so that you may understand.

 

Shakir: 72 And when you killed a man, then you disagreed with respect to that,

73 thus Allah brings the dead to life, and He shows you His signs so that you may understand.

 

Sher Ali: 72 And remember the time when you killed a person and differed among yourselves about it,

73 Thus does Allah give life to the dead and show you HIS Signs that you may understand.

 

Khalifa: 72 You had killed a soul, then disputed among yourselves

73 That is when GOD brought the victim back to life, and showed you His signs, that you may understand.

 

Arberry: 72 And when you killed a living soul, and disputed thereon

73 so God brings to life the dead, and He shows you His signs, that haply you may have understanding.

 

Palmer: 72 When too ye slew a soul and disputed thereupon,

73 Thus God brings the dead to life and shows you His signs, that haply ye may understand.

 

Rodwell: 72 And when ye slew a man, and strove among yourselves about him,

73 So God giveth life to the dead, and sheweth you his signs, that haply ye may understand.

 

Sale: 72 And when ye slew a man, and contended among your selves concerning him,

73 So God raiseth the dead to life, and sheweth you his signs, that peradventure ye may understand.

 

--- So this is stated plainly by the 10 translators, is it not? --- The Sign of course, was the Resurrection.

--- How could God raise Him to life if He was not dead?

(There is more, but we will start with this.)

 

Placid

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Of those who dispute...conjecture....

 

It never happened.

it almost happened.

Substitute Judas

Substitute someone else.

Jesus was on the cross but didn't die. He went to a tomb spa where he was medicated and massaged daily.

Other...

These are theories split between Muslims.

 

As for Christians, they all believe the same regardless of denomination.

No dispute, no need for conjecture. 

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To continue from Post 38)

 

On reading about the Epistle of Barnabas, which was included at the end of the New Testament in the Codex Siniaticus, it seems to indicate that it was one of the Books that could have been included in the Cannon of the NT. --- Barnabas was a teacher who first promoted Paul and travelled with him on missionary journeys.

 

The footnote to the Epistle of Barnabas says:

Quote: Barnabas was a companion and fellow-preacher with Paul. This Epistle lays a greater claim to canonical authority than most others. It has been cited by Clemens, Alexandrinus, Origen, Eusebius, and Jerome, and many ancient Fathers. Cotelerius affirms that Origen and Jerome esteemed it genuine and canonical. --- Bishop Fell feared to own expressly what he seemed to be persuaded of, that it ought to be treated with the same respect as several of the books of the present canon. Dr. Bernard, Savilian professor at Oxford, not only believed it to be genuine, but that it was read throughout in the churches of Alexandria, as the canonical Scriptures were.

 

It may be understandable why it was not included, --- because it was neither a General Gospel, nor a letter written to a Church body. --- However, it is called THE GENERAL EPISTLE OF BARNABAS. --- And the simple introduction is:

--- “All happiness to you my sons and daughters.”

 

Chapter 7 deals with the subject at hand. --- I have said before that the sacrifice of the unblemished heifer in Surah 2 71, referred to the Sacrifice of an unblemished heifer in Numbers 19, --- It was burned ‘with cedar wood, hyssop and scarlet,’ and the ashes saved and used for the ‘sprinkling of purification for the remission of sin.’ --- So the title of Barnabas, chapter 7 is:

 

--- The Red Heifer, another type of Christ.

1 BUT what type do ye suppose it to have been, where it is commanded to the people of Israel, that grown persons in whom sins are come to perfection, should offer an heifer, and after they had killed it should burn the same;

2 But then young men should take up the ashes and put them in vessels; and tie a piece of scarlet wool and hyssop upon a stick, and so the young men should sprinkle every one of the people, and they should be clear from their sins?

3 Consider how all these are delivered in a figure to us.

4 This heifer is Jesus Christ; the wicked men that were to offer it are those sinners who brought him to death; who afterwards have no more to do with it: for the sinners have no more the honour of handling it:

5 But the young men that performed the sprinkling, signified those who preach to us the forgiveness of sins, and the purification of the heart, to whom the Lord gave authority to preach his Gospel: being at the beginning twelve, to signify the tribes, because there were twelve tribes of Israel.

6 But why were there three young men appointed to sprinkle? To denote Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, because they were great before God.

7 And why was the wool put upon a stick? Because the kingdom of Jesus was founded upon the cross; and therefore they that put their trust in him, shall live for ever.

8 But why was the wool and hyssop put together? To signify that in the kingdom of Christ there shall be evil and filthy days, in which however, we shall be saved; and because he that has any disease in the flesh by some filthy humours, is cured by hyssop.

9 Wherefore these things being thus done, are to us indeed evident, but to the Jews they are obscure; because they hearkened not unto the voice of the Lord.

 

Let’s look again at the difficult verse 73, the way it is written:

Shakir: 73 So We said: Strike the (dead body) with part of the (Sacrificed cow), thus Allah brings the dead to life, and He shows you His signs so that you may understand.

 

--- The Translator and Commentator Maulana, says that the word translated ‘Strike,’ can also mean ‘liken to’ or ‘compare to’ --- that is the sense in which it is used here:

Sher Ali: 73 Then WE said, `Compare this incident with some other similar ones' and you will discover the truth. Thus does Allah give life to the dead and show you HIS Signs that you may understand.

 

Placid

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Hello The IslamHistory,

 

I'm curious. Where did you get the impression that Jesus needed to be buried underground?

 

Thanks.

 

Peace and God bless you

 

Well according to Luke 24:1-8, Mark 15:40-47, Mark 16:1-8, John 19:38-42, John 20:1-29), Jesus Christ was NEVER buried underground.  He was placed in a rich man's tomb (a cave like a bear's or mountain lion's cave) for three days above the ground, laying on the floor there. 
 

  • Sorry did you want verses Discussing what happen to Jesus (A.S)?
    ???? sorry a bit Confused on what you requested? Mentioned on the first reply to what happen to jesus (A.S)?
     

yes, There are a lot of error's in the new testament as I found out  

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Hi Andres,

 

I appreciate the comments of Qa’im and Ibn al-Hassan, in saying that since Muslims don’t believe in the death of Jesus, as having any significance for their salvation, then to them it doesn’t really matter whether Jesus died or not.

--- However, for the ones who try to convince by creating theories to explain it away, who tell us it didn’t happen the way the Scriptures said, --- they are not wanting to allow us to believe the Scriptures --- with the same freedom they have.

--- Frankly I am not concerned with what others believe, but when they make wrong statements, --- then it allows the privilege to write what is written in the NT and the Quran to try and keep it on track.

 

So, Andres, I want to give you more information if you want to receive it. --- It is natural that you will not find anything about the Romans in the Quran because there is only one verse that says, “The Romans have been defeated.”

 

However, I want to go back to the account in Surah 2:

It speaks of the sacrifice of an unblemished heifer in Surah 2, from which the Surah takes its name, The Cow. --- From 63-71 is all about the Jews in the time of Moses who broke their covenant, broke the Sabbath, and then they made the ‘golden calf.’

--- Therefore the unblemished heifer was a fitting sacrifice for their sin, Surah 2:

 

--- (Then it speaks to the Jews in Madinah about another historical event.)

72  Remember ye slew a man and fell into a dispute among yourselves as to the crime: But God was to bring forth what ye did hide.

--- (The Pharisees did not all agree with the killing of Jesus, and two of them, Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea, asked for the body of Jesus after His death, and placed it in the tomb.)

The ‘charge’ in this verse is that it was the Jews who killed Jesus, in these words, “Remember ye slew a man.”

--- The Pharisees had no authority to kill anyone so they had to accuse Jesus before Pilate and when Pilate wanted to let Him go, they started to protest, and Pilate, afraid they would start a riot said, “What will we do with Jesus?” --- They said, “Crucify Him.” Pilate asked, “Shall I crucify your King?” --- They said, “We have no king but Caesar.” Pilate again would have let Him go, but the call was getting louder to crucify Him.

Pilate said, “You take Him and crucify Him,” --- and he washed his hands in front of them. --- THEY SAID, “LET HIS BLOOD BE ON US AND ON OUR CHILDREN.”

--- This is an acceptance of responsibility --- as THEY HAD ‘instigated’ His death. --- And the Romans took Him to crucify Him.

 

Now let’s consider what the Quran said in these parts of 72 and 73, by the Muslim translators.

Pickthall: 72 And (remember) when ye slew a man and disagreed concerning it

73  Thus Allah bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His portents so that ye may understand.

 

Yusuf Ali: 72 Remember ye slew a man and fell into a dispute among yourselves as to the crime:

73 Thus God bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs: Perchance ye may understand.

 

Hilali Khan: 72 And (remember) when you killed a man and fell into dispute among yourselves as to the crime.

73 Thus Allah brings the dead to life and shows you His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) so that you may understand.

 

Shakir: 72 And when you killed a man, then you disagreed with respect to that,

73 thus Allah brings the dead to life, and He shows you His signs so that you may understand.

 

Sher Ali: 72 And remember the time when you killed a person and differed among yourselves about it,

73 Thus does Allah give life to the dead and show you HIS Signs that you may understand.

 

Khalifa: 72 You had killed a soul, then disputed among yourselves

73 That is when GOD brought the victim back to life, and showed you His signs, that you may understand.

 

Arberry: 72 And when you killed a living soul, and disputed thereon

73 so God brings to life the dead, and He shows you His signs, that haply you may have understanding.

 

Palmer: 72 When too ye slew a soul and disputed thereupon,

73 Thus God brings the dead to life and shows you His signs, that haply ye may understand.

 

Rodwell: 72 And when ye slew a man, and strove among yourselves about him,

73 So God giveth life to the dead, and sheweth you his signs, that haply ye may understand.

 

Sale: 72 And when ye slew a man, and contended among your selves concerning him,

73 So God raiseth the dead to life, and sheweth you his signs, that peradventure ye may understand.

 

--- So this is stated plainly by the 10 translators, is it not? --- The Sign of course, was the Resurrection.

--- How could God raise Him to life if He was not dead?

(There is more, but we will start with this.)

 

Placid

But you're only looking at half a verse not the full verse. For Yusuf Ali 73 the full verse is translated as: So We said: "Strike the (body) with a piece of the (heifer)." Thus Allah bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs: Perchance ye may understand.

I know you said you're looking at parts of 72 and 73 but in the Quran and other texts too, you can't isolate half a verse and look at it separate to the other part of the sentence as it will not convey the meaning properly. 

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Hi Qa'im

You write:

"The Qur'an is unclear on events surrounding the crucifixion just as it is unclear on the lives of almost 124,000 prophets that are not mentioned"

and:

" Our belief is that the Qur'an is a correction of previous narratives"

How do you mean? The Quranic corrections of the Bible being unclear? I could understand you so that historical details are not important enough to be dealt with in detail, and that the Quran concentrates on the dogmatic theological errors in the Bible. (?)

"God has no son". What kind of a son is intended? Does Muhammed not know that the Bible teaches a virgin birth, and that there can be no "normal" father. Jesus is also called "son of man", and I am being called Gods child and I call God my father. (our father who art in heaven....) What exactly is wrong in calling Jesus son of God and why is in not wrong calling Jesus "son of man", when the Bible says he has got no biological father, be so divine or human?

The trinity is not biblical, it is an interpretation, so here Muhammed is not speaking against the Bible, but against an interpretation. But does he know? This is not clear. No refrence is made to the Bible. He also say the trinity consist of God, Jesus and Mary, but this could be the belief that some christians in the arabic peninsula very well may have had.

The original sin is also only an interpretation of the Bible.

I do not believe that a human is inherently sinful or evil, nor do I believe that he would be punished and doomed to hell because of the sin of his ancestor.( But we are all humans that have inherited our genes from our parents, and like them we are not perfect). I dont believe Allah need blood to forgive, but blood sacrifice was a part if the jewish religion, so it had a significant value to a man like Paul. God punish you not for what you do not deserve, but only he can look into us. I do not believe that not believing in the crucifixion is enough to render anyone to hell. This is how I read the Bible

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Hi Thoughtful,

 

Quote from Post 42:

But you're only looking at half a verse not the full verse. For Yusuf Ali 73 the full verse is translated as: So We said: "Strike the (body) with a piece of the (heifer)." Thus Allah bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs: Perchance ye may understand.

I know you said you're looking at parts of 72 and 73 but in the Quran and other texts too, you can't isolate half a verse and look at it separate to the other part of the sentence as it will not convey the meaning properly. 

 

Response: --- Yes, I had said I would look at just part of the verses, but if you notice, I had included them at the bottom of Post 40, as they are written:

Quote: Let’s look again at the difficult verse 73, the way it is written:

Shakir: 73 So We said: Strike the (dead body) with part of the (Sacrificed cow), thus Allah brings the dead to life, and He shows you His signs so that you may understand.

 --- The Translator and Commentator Maulana, says that the word translated ‘Strike,’ can also mean ‘liken to’ or ‘compare to’ --- that is the sense in which it is used here:

Sher Ali: 73 Then WE said, `Compare this incident with some other similar ones' and you will discover the truth. Thus does Allah give life to the dead and show you HIS Signs that you may understand.

 

From your post 42:

 For Yusuf Ali 73 the full verse is translated as: So We said: "Strike the (body) with a piece of the (heifer)." Thus Allah bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs: Perchance ye may understand.

 

--- In making the comparison of the sacrifice of the heifer in Numbers 19, to the killing of Jesus, --- it says in Yusuf Ali and Shakir, “Strike the (dead body) with a piece of the (heifer) or the Sacrificed cow).”

--- The sacrificed heifer in Numbers was reduced to ashes and the ashes were saved and mixed with water, and hyssop, and sprinkled on unclean objects and people. --- Eventually the ashes would be used up and they would look for another unblemished heifer to make more ashes for ‘purification from sin.’

 

It was impossible to “Strike” the dead body of Jesus with a piece of the heifer that had been reduced to ashes and used up some 1500 years before the death of Jesus.

Therefore, it can be understood by using the meaning of “liken this’ or ‘compare this’ incident --- to the sacrifice of the heifer from Numbers 19, in the sense that Sher Ali used.

 

How do you explain it, if different from above?

(There is more to this Scripture because the Jews didn’t actually ‘kill’ Jesus, but they brought about His death from insisting He be crucified. --- And the Jews were charged with His death.)  

(More later)

 

Placid

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(To continue)

 

I will try to explain why it says that the Jews killed Jesus in Surah 2, --- and it says the Jews didn’t kill Him in Surah 4:

 

Surah 2 was revealed in year 1 and 2 of the Hijrah, --- soon after they were established in Madinah. --- The Jews had actually invited Muhammad to move to Madinah because they recognized him as the Prophet to the Arabs.

--- They expected that Muhammad would be a Prophet ‘under them.’ --- When he began to preach Faith in one God, and the ‘Brotherhood of Believers,’ --- that would exalt lowly Arab believers to the level of the Jews, --- so they began to oppose Muhammad and his teaching.

In the intro to Surah 2 of Mr Pickthall’s translation, he says:

Quote: ‘It is not the mere profession of a creed, but righteous conduct which is true religion. --- The religion of Abraham is the only true religion, and that religion consists in the surrender of man’s will and purpose to the Will and Purpose of the Lord of Creation. --- Of sincerity, in that religion, the one test is conduct, and the standard of that religion is for all alike.’ --- End of quote.

 

It would seem that the Surah is challenging the ‘righteousness’ of the Jews, with a reminder of their sins of the past.  

A trip down memory lane reveals that they broke their covenant with God, which they had promised to keep, they broke the Sabbath, and in the days of Moses they worshipped the golden calf. --- Notice this in Surah 2:  

61 And remember We took your covenant and We raised above you (The towering height) of Mount (Sinai) : (Saying): "Hold firmly to what We have given you and bring (ever) to remembrance what is therein: Perchance ye may fear God."

62 But ye turned back thereafter: Had it not been for the Grace and Mercy of God to you, ye had surely been among the lost.

63 And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath.

64 So We made it an example to their own time and to their posterity, and a lesson to those who fear God.

65 And remember Moses said to his people: "God commands that ye sacrifice a heifer. --- (The sacrifice of the heifer brings us up to the later verses):

 

71 He said: "He says: A heifer not trained to till the soil or water the fields; sound and without blemish." They said: "Now hast thou brought the truth." Then they offered her in sacrifice, but not with good-will.

72Remember ye slew a man and fell into a dispute among yourselves as to the crime: But God was to bring forth what ye did hide

73 So We said: "Strike the (body) with a piece of the (heifer)." Thus God bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs: Perchance ye may understand.

 

In a footnote to 72-73, Maulana says this refers to the martyrdom of Jesus Christ,

--- And in Surah 4, he speaks of Jesus on the cross, with another comment.

 

Surah 4 was revealed in the fourth year of the Hijrah and it is a comparable history of the Jews in Surah 2. --- Notice Surah 4:   

150 Those who deny God and His apostles, and (those who) wish to separate God from His apostles, saying: "We believe in some but reject others": And (those who) wish to take a course midway,

151 They are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and We have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment.

152 To those who believe in God and His apostles and make no distinction between any of the apostles, We shall soon give their (due) rewards: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful

153 The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us God in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so We forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority.

154 And for their covenant We raised over them (the towering height) of Mount (Sinai); and (on another occasion) We said: "Enter the gate with humility"; and (once again) We commanded them: "Transgress not in the matter of the sabbath." And We took from them a solemn covenant.

155 (They have incurred divine displeasure): In that they broke their covenant; that they rejected the signs of God; that they slew the Apostle in defiance of right; that they said, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve God's Word; We need no more)"; - Nay, God hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy, and little is it they believe; -

156 That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;

---

These verses from 150-156 are a condemnation of the Jews, --- both for their rejection of God from the OT, --- and also for their killing of the Prophets and Apostles, including Jesus, --- for their rejection of Faith (thinking they were wrapped in God’s protection), --- and because of them making slanderous remarks about Mary.

(More later)

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